[Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola

Thu Apr 13 19:33:00 GMT 2017

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I think it is a big deal, after the insults to Emulatorman.

El 13/04/17 a las 16:14, Nicolás A. Ortega escribió:
> Alright, this seems to be getting a little out of hand over
> something that really isn't that big a deal (what's more, the past
> is the past and cannot be changed)
> 
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:33:40PM -0300, fauno wrote:
>> Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:
>> 
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>>> 
>>> Dear Mr. Richard Stallman:
>> 
>> hi richard, i'm really ashamed you're getting involved in this
>> and the shitload of emails that'll ensue.  if you take the time
>> to read the fine selection sent, at least hear the other bell and
>> the full story.
>> 
>>> In the last past days (even some years), the Parabola
>>> community experimented some issues among its members because of
>>> the difference of ideas. The problem now is that these issues
>>> have increased and now it has become a big problem, which could
>>> end up with Parabola if we don't solve it soon. We are telling
>>> *you* this because the Parabola Community has been divided, and
>>> we need a moderator, so we chose you.
>> 
>> this "we" doesn't mean the parabola community, just the guys
>> feeling attacked.
>> 
> 
> Why do we need to involve Richard in this? I feel like this is
> somehow a plea to authority trying to have someone else solve our
> problems. However, I don't think this will solve anything, what's
> more it creates an authority figure in the Parabola community where
> instead we should be speaking rationally. We can't expect others to
> come in and solve our problems for us.
> 
> Differing opinions is normal since we are all different people
> (life would be pretty boring if we all had the same opinions). The
> important thing is reasoning through our differing opinions and
> finding a compromise (which may or may not be necessary if either
> side is able to convince the other of their ideas).
> 
>>> Some time ago *some* Parabola devs thought about creating a
>>> webstore so that devs can work full time for Parabola and get a
>>> salary for that, at that point it was just like the
>>> "brainstorming" when they (we) made some virtual meetings. When
>>> this idea became a bit more known, then other devs, which were
>>> not invited nor involved at the beginning started to criticize
>>> the ones who begun with the idea calling our meetings "secret
>>> meetings", "meetings without transparency" and bullying some
>>> other devs like André Silva (Emulatorman), insulting and
>>> contradicting him, defending themselves attacking others.
>> 
>> yes, they were secret because everyone else in the community
>> wasn't involved.  you're forgetting you also wanted to force our
>> fiscal sponsor to pay for things you wanted without caring if
>> they could really pay them, and then accusing them of mishandling
>> our funds.  this forced them to cut our agreement and everyone
>> else here to find a new fiscal sponsor.
>> 
> 
> From what I know (correct me if I'm wrong) although these ideas
> were discussed in private they were never implemented nor is there
> currently a plan to implement them. Therefore, what is their sin? I
> don't think that discussing ideas (or even elaborating them) in
> private is a bad thing. Now, if they would like to implement any of
> these then it should be up to the community as a whole where the
> community is concerned. That is, actions should be transparent, but
> ideas can be private since they have no real effect until they are
> put into action.
> 
> I do see, however, the issue with fiscal policy of Parabola. My
> personal suggestion is that since Parabola aims to be a community
> oriented project (afaik) I suggest full transparency. This is
> something I've done while taking part in a local political party
> that aimed to be directly democratic and it worked rather well, as
> it functions as a trustless system where even if you do not trust
> the person in charge of finances you can keep an eye on their
> activities with respect to finances. This forces said person to
> also be more cautious about how they handle things and allows for
> anyone to publicly bring up any issues that they see with how
> things are being handled and for them to be discussed by the
> community as a whole. For this it would be wise to put a link to a 
> GnuCash file on the Parabola website where one can easily find
> this information.
> 
>>> It is not necessary to say names, we have collected evidence so
>>> we can prove what I'm saying is true. Please read the
>>> attachment, there are the names and emails they've sent to the
>>> mailing list.
>> 
>> this is a bogus claim.  your corpus is full of names of people
>> that have called your bullshit.
>> 
>>> After all of this, André Silva left the decision of his
>>> expulsion to the community[1], and many devs and users are on
>>> his favor. So we ask
>> 
>> /devs and users/his friends/
>> 
> 
> I am not his friend, I know Emulatorman very little, however from
> the little I have known him, I have seen him doing quite a bit of
> work for this project, and that he is a very valuable person for
> this community.
> 
>>> you, please, help us with a wise suggestion or with the
>>> decision you consider correct and propose it to the community.
>>> From my personal point of view, I think a disclaimer or sth.
>>> similar (code of conduct, community rules, etc) has to be
>>> created, there is none afaik, perhaps that's sth. you can
>>> recommend?.
>> 
>> we do have community rules: we have an open list and everything
>> was always brought here to consensus.
>> 
> 
> When it comes to community rules I am always very cautious and 
> skeptical, as they tend to have the opposite effect that they are
> aiming for (especially Codes of Conduct). Policy is one thing, but
> the behaviour of each individual is something completely separate
> and (as I see it) non-related.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

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