[Dev] Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Charles Roth
encycl at parlementum.red
Thu Apr 6 13:22:23 GMT 2017
I think there needs to be a clear chronology of events. Preferably a wiki page.
Things happened that weren't public
It's difficult to follow everything through this long thread.
Thank you.
On April 6, 2017, at 6:10 AM, dev-request at lists.parabola.nu wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Reproducible Builds (Bill Auger)
2. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations (aurelien)
3. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations
(Adonay Felipe Nogueira)
4. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations
(Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
5. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations (aurelien)
6. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations
(Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 08:27:17 -0400
From: Bill Auger <mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com>
To: dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible Builds
Message-ID:
<CAD3PP06psLOFz=hGTAg+Fj68+MNeYsjcA7nQC58v21BntvxCtA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
an IRC user suggested that they would like to see Parabola featured on the
reproducible-builds website and lukeshu answered that reproducibility was
indeed an active goal so i decided to look into it
i contacted some reproducible-builds team members to ask if they had a
review process and what sort of logistics were involved - in short, what it
amounts to is a script integrated into their jenkins server that
periodically downloads sources and runs verification builds then displays
the results on the web
the first thing they wanted to see understandably was some documentation of
the plan or progress to date - i unfortunately could not find anything
published regarding Parabola's efforts in this direction so i made a new
page on the Parabola wiki to serve as a jumping off point
https://wiki.parabola.nu/Reproducible_Builds
on that page there are listed several bullet points marked as 'TODO' that
were suggested by the reproducible-builds team as a good starting point for
consideration
i am willing to help out in any way i can but at this point im not sure who
is the most knowledgeable person regarding Parabola's reproducible build
procedure - someone with that internal knowledge will need to complete at
least the first couple of TODO items in order to move forward (some
preliminary documentation - namely, to describe something about the
procedures, tools, current progress, and/or goals)
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 14:47:36 +0200
From: aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp>
To: Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org>
Cc: dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <87y3vdpus7.fsf at hackers.camp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org> writes:
> to., 06.04.2017 kl. 14.12 +0200, skrev aurelien:
>> Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org> writes:
>>
>> > to., 06.04.2017 kl. 08.18 +0200, skrev aurelien:
>> > > Crazytoon <crazytoon at riseup.net> writes:
>> > >
>> > > > El 05/04/17 a las 20:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
>> > > > > on., 05.04.2017 kl. 23.27 +0000, skrev coadde:
>> > > > > > On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
>> > > > > > > On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015
>> > > > > > > > > for a
>> > > > > > > > > term
>> > > > > > > > > of 1 (one)
>> > > > > > > > > year and it has been automatically renewed on 24
>> > > > > > > > > September
>> > > > > > > > > 2016. I
>> > > > > > > > > remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola
>> > > > > > > > > any
>> > > > > > > > > fee for
>> > > > > > > > > handling
>> > > > > > > > > its donations and expenses.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal
>> > > > > > > > > sponsorship
>> > > > > > > > > (such as
>> > > > > > > > > FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under
>> > > > > > > > > their
>> > > > > > > > > umbrella with a
>> > > > > > > > > standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250
>> > > > > > > > > EUR
>> > > > > > > > > for the
>> > > > > > > > > income
>> > > > > > > > > Parabola has received so far.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Considering that there is a number of Parabola
>> > > > > > > > > hackers/donors
>> > > > > > > > > unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is
>> > > > > > > > > our
>> > > > > > > > > decision
>> > > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > terminate the current agreement. Please consider this
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > "sixty (60)
>> > > > > > > > > days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata,
>> > > > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > per ?7.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I just wanted to take a moment to say that while
>> > > > > > > questions
>> > > > > > > were
>> > > > > > > being
>> > > > > > > asked by members of our community, no one has made the
>> > > > > > > public
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > decision to "terminate".
>> > > > > > > However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us
>> > > > > > > (which is
>> > > > > > > allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a
>> > > > > > > replacement
>> > > > > > > within
>> > > > > > > 60 days.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > As for current consensus:
>> > > > > > > I think we should immediately remove donation links from
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > website to
>> > > > > > > avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until
>> > > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > matter is
>> > > > > > > resolved.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > +1
>> > > > >
>> > > > > +1
>> > > >
>> > > > +1
>> > >
>> > > +1
>> > >
>> > > I would like to bring you back in time when I said that I am
>> > > against
>> > > the
>> > > money. Parabola was at first a mate adventure and continue to be
>> > > one.
>> > >
>> > > I have no doubt about fauno and would be really pleased that you
>> > > the
>> > > people of that community get time to think of some important
>> > > points:
>> > >
>> > > This project offer us many things from personnal being to
>> > > knowledge.
>> > >
>> > > Nowadays thanks GNU and thanks Parabola because I have a job and
>> > > that
>> > > job comes from the knowledge all people of GNU shared with me and
>> > > offer
>> > > me the chance of practicing.
>> > >
>> > > Afaik from the day money comes here, it change many things from
>> > > the
>> > > share of practicing essential part of the project to the reason
>> > > why
>> > > people act.
>> > >
>> > > Speaking of people act, the first part of that mail comes from
>> > > nowhere
>> > > so that mean a private exchange around a public situation.
>> > >
>> > > The dark corner of the money are just like this:
>> > >
>> > > "Dark corners are basically fractal?no matter how much you
>> > > illuminate,
>> > > there?s always a smaller but darker one."???-? Brian Kernighan
>> > >
>> > > Money must be kicked out from that place and never comes back.
>> > >
>> > > Yes the project need money for servers and many other things, but
>> > > get
>> > > time to understand that we load and run it during many years
>> > > without
>> > > donation rules, just on the point of discussion.
>> > >
>> > > Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Dev mailing list
>> > > Dev at lists.parabola.nu
>> > > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>> >
>> > I'm extremely thankful and grateful for Parabola and all I've
>> > learned
>> > about computing and hacking these last few weeks. And I couldn't
>> > have
>> > done it without the help, patience and understanding from my new
>> > friends in this unique, wonderful community.?
>> >
>> > I for one would love to see a world with a resource based economy
>> > rather than a debt/interest one. (End the FED and Central Banking!)
>> > But
>> > I would hate to see my friends - already working around the clock
>> > to
>> > maintain the best distro in the world (!) - sell themselves to
>> > companies doing non-free software and working with proprietary
>> > software
>> > ?just to make a living and only doing Parabola in their sparetime
>> > an
>> > hour before bed. But that is not for me to deside, of course, I
>> > mean
>> > how people are making a living. But I find this free community so
>> > unique, helpful, developing (personally, per knowlegde, how-to,
>> > freedom, friendship and more) that I would love for the devs to
>> > work
>> > with Parabola and at the same time be able to pay their bills,
>> > devices
>> > needed for building, maintaining, food and a place to live, for the
>> > sake of keeping Parabola secure, safe, up to date and so on. It
>> > would
>> > also be great for the philosophy of freedom if Parabola could be
>> > promoted with the help of artifects like t-shirts, cups, stickers,
>> > support, lectures (for schools, companies and others interested in
>> > the
>> > use of free software) etc., which also would contribute to Parabola
>> > economically.?
>> >
>> > For me to be able to donate to Parabola and its devs, is a great
>> > joy
>> > for me. Not the fact that this world have this perverse
>> > superstition of
>> > a 'religion' called the monetary system, but due to the fact that I
>> > strongly believe this will help freeing even more users from the
>> > slavery caused by proprietary/non-free software and OSes. And for
>> > that
>> > I - as a user - very much so need you guys to do what you love the
>> > most
>> > and do best, i.e. Parabola!?
>> >
>> > I very much welcome this new site for donating! I also welcome the
>> > idea
>> > of having a store, offering support and so on. And personally I
>> > have
>> > grown a lot in knowledge and know-how since I started to use
>> > Parabola.
>> > And if my learning curve continues the way it has the last few
>> > weeks,
>> > who knows; perhaps one day I can contribute to Parabola myself! I
>> > myself don't have to worry about money ATM, but I would hate to see
>> > Parabola lose quality because devs have no time to maintain it. So
>> > if
>> > that means to pay the devs a little money through donations, then
>> > YES!
>> > I'm in!?
>>
>> No worries about that I am payed to spreed about free software to all
>> the engineers around me.
>>
>> So the point about Parabola is not that you give free time you get
>> paid
>> to learn the price you won is the study you do not have to pay.
>>
>> -- aurelien
>
> I didn't quite get that last paragraph, but sure; if you get payed for
> spreading free software, great! Good for you! I think other devs (like
> those developing and maintaining Parabola full time) also would be
> happy to get a small amount of payment for spreading free software and
> a 100% free distro. Those already working, don't need to get payed for
> doing Parabola, perhaps. But that's not the point. The donations is for
> everyone. For Parabola! To make it grow, get stronger and to make sure
> it has the devices/servers etc. it needs for that purpose. I'm just
> saying I think it's a good idea. It's great to have a full time job and
> demand from those who don't are going to work for free. Anyways, it's
> just my humble opinion.
certainly, but I do not see where fauno get the money rather than for
parabola so what is the trouble exactly ??
because from what I read he does not get the money for hiself.
and no one respond me about the dark mail exchange around that I
consider as a trap to one of thus who load the project. (and really not
appreciate)
--
aurelien
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 09:50:23 -0300
From: Adonay Felipe Nogueira <adfeno at openmailbox.org>
To: dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <874ly1zomo.fsf at openmailbox.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I'm reading the messages about this issue, and I have some suggestions:
I don't know if this serves as valid fiscal sponsors, but perhaps we can
contact Associa??o Software Livre (ASL, from Brasil) --- not to be
confused with FSFLA ---, and Cooperativa de Trabalho em Tecnologias
Livres (Colivre, also from Brasil).
- ASL: [[http://softwarelivre.org/asl]].
- Colivre: [[http://colivre.coop.br/]].
Also, as future project, perhaps we can contribute to development of GNU
Taler ([[http://www.gnu.org/software/taler/]]), which would allow anyone
to send any-currency-of-money through the Internet (provided there are
other "authority" nodes, probably authorized by local governments, to
make taxations, when applicable to local rules).
Respectfully, Adonay.
--
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (n?o confundir com
gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele n?o ? livre, por isso n?o uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que
est? no endere?o acima aos teus contatos.
- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
aceito, mas n?o repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favor?veis ao
/software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de d?vida.
- "People said I should accept the world. Bullshit! I don't accept the
world."
--- Richard Stallman
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:59:22 +0300
From: Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org>
To: aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp>, Andr? Silva
<emulatorman at riseup.net>
Cc: dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <58E63BAA.9050905 at ceata.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
> subject that concern all of us?
As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.
Tiberiu
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 15:07:50 +0200
From: aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp>
To: Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org>
Cc: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>, dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <87efx5ptuh.fsf at hackers.camp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
> On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
>> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
>> subject that concern all of us?
>
> As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
> That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
> with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
> required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.
>
> Tiberiu
That is why money burst my ass.
We create that community for cool reason and are now poisonned by that
shit.
Get time to read about the ?Make_Me_Piss article.
--
aurelien
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:10:05 +0300
From: Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org>
To: aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp>
Cc: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>, dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <58E63E2D.2050701 at ceata.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On 06.04.2017 16:07, aurelien wrote:
> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>
>> On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
>>> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
>>> subject that concern all of us?
>>
>> As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
>> That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
>> with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
>> required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.
>>
>> Tiberiu
>
> That is why money burst my ass.
>
> We create that community for cool reason and are now poisonned by that
> shit.
>
> Get time to read about the ?Make_Me_Piss article.
I don't appreciate your tone. And you can't possibly expect a fiscal
sponsor to communicate with the community directly. That'd be too much
of work and that's why a delegate was chosen by the community to speak
on its behalf to the fiscal sponsor. But this is hardly news. It's
established and agreed upon a long time ago.
Tiberiu
------------------------------
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