From nobody at parabola.nu  Sat Apr  1 00:25:04 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 00:25:04 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [webkit2gtk] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170401002504.1103.65086@proton.parabola.nu>

jm.100best at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:




The user provided the following additional text:

2.16 released



From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sun Apr  2 03:00:51 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 23:00:51 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre]  libglvnd: OK or not?
In-Reply-To: <87bmsh8id8.fsf@riseup.net>
References: <87inmqm47v.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <d0db276a-35be-2b7b-f104-7b97c1a657b1@riseup.net>
 <87fuhtnahf.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <0dcb8f71-18c0-e0eb-49f4-618f440df650@riseup.net>
 <87bmsh8id8.fsf@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <8760inqzrw.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 13:29:39 -0400,
Joshua Haase wrote:
> Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> writes:
> 
> > On 03/31/2017 07:58 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> >>     [technical] Breaks support for non-DRI (non-Xorg) DRM in Nouveau
> >
> > +1, i suggest put intel (i915 driver) too, since i had problems in my
> > laptop :(
> >
> > eg. [technical] Breaks support for non-DRI (non-Xorg) DRM in Nouveau and
> > Intel
> 
> I think that we should not use the freedom blacklist to solve technical
> issues.

I agree.

The [technical] tag is for
 - the technical issue is "we aren't Arch"
 - we need to recompile against our version of a library (which was repackaged changed for freedom reasons)
 - we need to recompile a package with different flags, because a
   libre-replacement for a different package requires it.

It isn't to fix bugs from upstream.

> We should document the problem and the solution (i.e. uninstalling or
> such). Parabola is a DIY distro.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Sun Apr  2 12:28:55 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2017 12:28:55 +0000
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre]  libglvnd: OK or not?
In-Reply-To: <8760inqzrw.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87inmqm47v.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <d0db276a-35be-2b7b-f104-7b97c1a657b1@riseup.net>
 <87fuhtnahf.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <0dcb8f71-18c0-e0eb-49f4-618f440df650@riseup.net> <87bmsh8id8.fsf@riseup.net>
 <8760inqzrw.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <50fa74b3-466e-6b34-c411-49e4970f2dd9@riseup.net>

On 04/02/2017 03:00 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 13:29:39 -0400,
> Joshua Haase wrote:
>> Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> writes:
>>
>>> On 03/31/2017 07:58 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote:
>>>>     [technical] Breaks support for non-DRI (non-Xorg) DRM in Nouveau
>>>
>>> +1, i suggest put intel (i915 driver) too, since i had problems in my
>>> laptop :(
>>>
>>> eg. [technical] Breaks support for non-DRI (non-Xorg) DRM in Nouveau and
>>> Intel
>>
>> I think that we should not use the freedom blacklist to solve technical
>> issues.
> 
> I agree.
> 
> The [technical] tag is for
>  - the technical issue is "we aren't Arch"
>  - we need to recompile against our version of a library (which was repackaged changed for freedom reasons)
>  - we need to recompile a package with different flags, because a
>    libre-replacement for a different package requires it.
> 
> It isn't to fix bugs from upstream.

+1 I think there's a way to do it from outside blacklist file, even we
could do the same for packages with branding issues too.

A good suggestion is create another file with different name which
contains those packages (with technical and branding issues) to be
removed from db-import-archlinux-pkg and db-import-archlinuxarm-pkg. :)


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From nobody at parabola.nu  Sun Apr  2 18:19:11 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2017 18:19:11 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [aurvote] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170402181911.1103.75898@proton.parabola.nu>

239plutonio at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* aurvote 1.8-1 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/aurvote/


The user provided the following additional text:

In AUR repository aurvote goes by version 1.9-3



From emulatorman at riseup.net  Wed Apr  5 10:30:30 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 10:30:30 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>

Hello Tiberiu,

We've received the GNUcash file [0][1] from our delegate (fauno [2])
with our current expenses, assets and profits. I have a few questions
for you, since I have some confusion and I think you could could help us
clarify. There are several users worried about our donations and gains.
We also have a policy about transparency for our community which donors
feel were neglected. Here are the questions:

* Why were all of our BTC converted to RON? I found an email about it
letting us know it was being done [3]. I remember, we agreed about it
with you for legal reasons (at that time I wasn't an investor, and
didn't understand about economics). However, I don't remember when it
was done, if it was **all** or just some of the BTC, for expense, annual
declaration, etc.

Could you let us know if there was a consensus about this and if there
are references from Romanian laws stating that it is mandatory? I
realize this was a long time ago, but it is an important question for
our community.

* What is the issue if we were to keep donations inside our bitcoin
wallet (a.k.a. "limbo") until we would declare it (eg. annual
declaration or when someone will use it for expenses) to avoid wasting
our gains?

* If all money converted from bitcoins (BTC) to RON was for legal
reasons, then why weren't our faircoins (FAIR) converted too?

* If converting our crypt-coins to any currency such as RON, is needed
we would like to receive references from Romanian laws for better
clarification and to avoid misunderstanding inside our community.
Several anon donors asked me for references in private. Could you give
us references about those points from Romanian laws?

* Why did we convert our assets to RON instead of EUR? Is it a better
currency than EUR (we have an account in EUR too)? Is it for some legal
reason? Could you give us references about this?

* We would like to receive money as paid hackers (not only for
non-profit things) since we have plans to offer services such as
technical support, pentesting, webstore, videogames, etc. Is it possible
to still do this with Ceata since you are a non-profit entity?

* If it isn't possible, then we should open a legal entity (eg.
offshore) for Parabola and declare our gains in our residential
countries or another similar legal ways (eg. micro-business), then my
question is: Could be it a trouble for you since we will receive profit
assets and your non-profit ones? Could help us giving us references from
Romanian laws to help understand it better?

* Since we have our GNUcash file already sent by fauno, could you send
to fauno all paperworks, bills, invoices, currency exchange copies
declared by Ceata about our expenses? It's very important, since
Parabola has a policy about transparency for our donations. These should
be posted on our wiki so that donors are no longer worried.

Sincerely,
Andr?.

[0]:https://repomirror.parabola.nu/other/parabola-accounting/monetary-donations/20170111/
[1]:https://git.parabola.nu/accounting.git/
[2]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/#fauno
[3]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-November/003456.html

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From tct at ceata.org  Wed Apr  5 16:47:06 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 19:47:06 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org>

Hello,

On 05.04.2017 13:30, Andr? Silva wrote:
> We've received the GNUcash file [0][1] from our delegate (fauno [2])
> with our current expenses, assets and profits. I have a few questions
> for you, since I have some confusion and I think you could could help us
> clarify. There are several users worried about our donations and gains.
> We also have a policy about transparency for our community which donors
> feel were neglected. Here are the questions:

The GNUcash file you refer to was created by me to help Parabola keep
track of donations and expenses related to the Parabola fund handled by
Funda?ia Ceata. Before that, I was monitoring the Donations wiki page
and helping fauno and you to keep it accurate and up-to-date, and also
improve it (as it can be seen in the page history, e.g. [4][5][6]). For
each notification of a new donation for Parabola I have received, I have
informed fauno promptly and I'm sure he can confirm this.

[4]
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=16404&oldid=16333
[5]
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=16750&oldid=16404
[6]
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=16752&oldid=16751

I've created the GNUcash file after the first big expenses (with the
occasion of the FISL conference) to further help Parabola. Since then
I've regularly updated and sent the GNUcash file to fauno. I consider
all of this proof of the transparency I've showed Parabola.

Besides this, I've helped Parabola get sponsorships from companies, like
Robofun (BeagleBone) [7], Gandi (domain) [8] and Technoethical, having
noticed that the donations Parabola receives are mainly from individuals
(and some of them are also volunteering time to Parabola).

[7]
https://www.parabola.nu/news/robofun-sponsors-parabola-arm-port-with-a-bbb-board/
[8] https://www.parabola.nu/news/gandi-sponsors-parabola-domain-name/

I have tried to make available to Parabola as many donation methods as
possible, including PayPal.

I've also helped promoting Parabola at conferences such as FOSDEM and
Coliberator [8].

[8] https://www.parabola.nu/news/gandi-sponsors-parabola-domain-name/

I never took credit for any of this, and because you have insisted, I
told you you can credit Funda?ia Ceata instead. Also, I've never used my
position and my help to influence the internal affairs of Parabola.

This introduction I made is to help people reading this public thread to
get the picture.

> * Why were all of our BTC converted to RON?

Parabola hackers have decided that Funda?ia Ceata should handle all
Parabola assets, including and specifically also donations in the
cryptocurrencies Bitcoin and Faircoin. Below are excerpts from my
communication with fauno on the matter:

On 24.11.2015 01:07, Tiberiu wrote:
> Have you decided, will the virtual coins be handled by Ceata?

On 24.11.2015 01:09, fauno wrote:
> apparently, i'll send you the details as soon as a i can.

On 24.11.2015 01:11, Tiberiu wrote:
> Okay, meanwhile I'll setup a new Bitcoin wallet for Ceata and I will
> document myself about Faircoin to create an account for this currency

On 24.11.2015 01:15, fauno wrote:
> i can send you the electrum seed so you can regain control of the
> existing btc wallet.

On 24.11.2015 02:13, Tiberiu wrote:
> I have set up Faircoin with Electrum. How should we go about
> transferring control for this currency?

On 24.11.2015 02:23, fauno wrote:
> i don't have a seed for this, give me the new address and i'll
> transfer you the fair and change it on the wiki.  you have to
> exchange it for ron, no?

On 24.11.2015 09:01, Tiberiu wrote:
> That's correct.

On 24.11.2015 14:25, Tiberiu wrote:
> I have no experience with faircoin. How
> long does confirming take and how can I convert them into RON (or
> USD/EUR)? Should I convert them to bitcoin first? Or there is a direct
> way too. I haven't researched yet, maybe you know.

On 24.11.2015 16:29, fauno wrote:
> is it really needed to exchange them to ron?

On 24.11.2015 16:48, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> Sadly, yes, for accounting.

> I found an email about it
> letting us know it was being done [3].

That's incorrect. I wasn't letting you know "it was being done", rather
that _it has to be done_. I was replying to a donor in Bitcoin who was
expressing his concerns about the "legal headaches" that his donation in
Bitcoin can give to a nonprofit (Funda?ia Ceata).

In the e-mail you mentioned I've publicly explained on this mailing list
the reason why Funda?ia Ceata cannot handle BTC without having to
convert them into the national currency of Romania, RON.

On Tue Nov 3 13:45:45 GMT 2015, Tiberiu wrote:
> For sure it's not a problem the originating currency is BTC. It will,
> however, raise the question in the authorities' eyes: where did you have
> USD to pay for that product? No bank statement showing you had that
> money. Next question from the authorities: do you have a separate
> deposit you are not declaring? The answer would be yes, we have a
> separate wallet, in BTC. :-P

I would also like to remind everyone that as per ?5 of our Fiscal
Sponsorship Agreement [9]:

> 5. **Parabola Fund Management / Performance of Tax-exempt Purposes.**
>    All of the assets received by Ceata under the terms of this Agreement
>    shall be devoted to the purpose of Parabola, within the tax-exempt
>    purposes of Ceata.  The Parties agree not to use its funds or operate
>    in any way which would jeopardize the tax-exempt status of Ceata.

[9]
https://git.parabola.nu/ceata-agreement.git/tree/Parabola+Ceata_Agreement.markdown

> I remember, we agreed about it with you for legal reasons 

Yes, you (Parabola hackers, including fauno and you) were aware that BTC
needs to be converted to RON and you have agreed with this for the
reasons I mentioned above.

> (at that time I wasn't an investor, and
> didn't understand about economics).

I wonder how this is relevant to running a nonprofit. Or is it just
self-glorification.

> However, I don't remember when it
> was done, if it was **all** or just some of the BTC, for expense, annual
> declaration, etc.

There is no mystery about this. Check the GNUcash file and see the
screenshot attached for verification.

> Could you let us know if there was a consensus about this and if there
> are references from Romanian laws stating that it is mandatory? I
> realize this was a long time ago, but it is an important question for
> our community.

Bitcoin is not a recognized currency in Romania and few countries in the
world give it a legal status [10].

[10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country

A donation in Bitcoin received by an individual becomes donation for
Funda?ia Ceata only when it is deposited in its bank account. Until
then, it doesn't exist in Ceata's accounting, can't be declared, can't
be used for covering expenses.

> * What is the issue if we were to keep donations inside our bitcoin
> wallet (a.k.a. "limbo") until we would declare it (eg. annual
> declaration or when someone will use it for expenses) to avoid wasting
> our gains?

Here you are assuming that the Bitcoin price only goes up and that it
doesn't vary dramatically at times. You assume that the best practice is
to exchange BTC at the end of each fiscal year.

Anyway, this is exactly what I've done in December 2015, as everyone can
see in the screenshot attached and in the GNUcash file. I have exchanged
BTC in RON at BitcoinRomania [11], to my knowledge the only Bitcoin
exchange in Romania.

[11] https://trade.bitcoinromania.ro/

In January of 2016, Parabola has received a donation of 2 BTC, which was
double the amount of bitcoins Parabola had received by December 2015. To
avoid any risk to be judged for waiting too long to exchange BTC while
its price could have dropped, I have exchanged the ~2 BTC the same
month, in January 2016. I considered it's safest to exchange in January,
so that the exchange rate is closest to the one I exchanged BTC one
month earlier.

Finally, there is minimum amount of RON that one can sell BTC for, and
since the BTC donations Parabola has received by end of August 2016 were
only 0.15 BTC, I have exchanged this small amount of BTC the same time I
have exchanged my own BTC.

> * If all money converted from bitcoins (BTC) to RON was for legal
> reasons, then why weren't our faircoins (FAIR) converted too?

As you can find in the excerpts from my communication with fauno on
setting up cryptocurrency donations for Parabola, we couldn't find a way
to exchange FAIR to any intermediary currency to be exchanged in the end
in RON. Considering that the amount of 1100 FAIR (see second screenshot)
had and still has a small value, now being less than $50 USD [12], I
didn't consider it's relevant to anyone for me to lose more of my time
on finding a solution. This was my evaluation back in December 2015 and
I haven't checked later if the situation has improved and if now there
are any options to exchange FAIR to BTC/EUR/USD intermediately or to RON
directly.

[12] https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/faircoin/

> * If converting our crypt-coins to any currency such as RON, is needed
> we would like to receive references from Romanian laws for better
> clarification and to avoid misunderstanding inside our community.
> Several anon donors asked me for references in private. Could you give
> us references about those points from Romanian laws?

The answer to this question is included in my explanations above. Since
BTC is not regulated in Romania, I can only point you to accounting
questions on forums such as this one [13].

[13] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=699556.0

> * Why did we convert our assets to RON instead of EUR? Is it a better
> currency than EUR (we have an account in EUR too)? Is it for some legal
> reason? Could you give us references about this?

All fiscal declarations are in national currency, RON. Funda?ia Ceata's
EUR bank account exists for the sole reason we accept donations in EUR.
If it doesn't exist, our bank opens an EUR account and charges a big fee
of ?15 EUR for the emergency opening of an account in foreign currency.
This is why we keep EUR and USD accounts for Ceata.

Romanian national currency RON is quite stable, 1 EUR = [4.3,4.6] RON in
the past 2 years [14]. That is a ?0.05 EUR variation (a ?5 variation).

[14] http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=RON&view=2Y

> * We would like to receive money as paid hackers (not only for
> non-profit things) since we have plans to offer services such as
> technical support, pentesting, webstore, videogames, etc. Is it possible
> to still do this with Ceata since you are a non-profit entity?

Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a term of 1 (one)
year and it has been automatically renewed on 24 September 2016. I
remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any fee for handling
its donations and expenses.

Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal sponsorship (such as
FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their umbrella with a
standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR for the income
Parabola has received so far.

Considering that there is a number of Parabola hackers/donors
unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our decision to
terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the "sixty (60)
days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as per ?7.

> * If it isn't possible, then we should open a legal entity (eg.
> offshore) for Parabola and declare our gains in our residential
> countries or another similar legal ways (eg. micro-business), then my
> question is: Could be it a trouble for you since we will receive profit
> assets and your non-profit ones? Could help us giving us references from
> Romanian laws to help understand it better?

As per ?7(a), as of now you are free to look for a "Fiscal Sponsor
Successor", which has to be "another *nonprofit* organization which is
tax-exempt". As per ?7(b), we will only transfer the Parabola fund to a
nonprofit, that communicates "its willingness to sponsor Parabola in
writing to Ceata".

As per ?7(c), "Termination Without a Fiscal Sponsor Successor" by the
end of the 60 days, will render the Parabola fund "inactive for any
motive other than transference to a Fiscal Sponsor Successor".

> * Since we have our GNUcash file already sent by fauno, could you send
> to fauno all paperworks, bills, invoices, currency exchange copies
> declared by Ceata about our expenses? It's very important, since
> Parabola has a policy about transparency for our donations. These should
> be posted on our wiki so that donors are no longer worried.

No problem. I believe most of the bills and invoices are already public,
and I will look in the archives for the rest of them. It will all be
ready by the time we transfer the Parabola fund to the Fiscal Sponsor
Successor.

Tiberiu

> [0]:https://repomirror.parabola.nu/other/parabola-accounting/monetary-donations/20170111/
> [1]:https://git.parabola.nu/accounting.git/
> [2]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/#fauno
> [3]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-November/003456.html
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From tct at ceata.org  Wed Apr  5 16:51:29 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 19:51:29 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>

On 05.04.2017 19:47, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On 05.04.2017 13:30, Andr? Silva wrote:
>> We've received the GNUcash file [0][1] from our delegate (fauno [2])
>> with our current expenses, assets and profits. I have a few questions
>> for you, since I have some confusion and I think you could could help us
>> clarify. There are several users worried about our donations and gains.
>> We also have a policy about transparency for our community which donors
>> feel were neglected. Here are the questions:
> 
> The GNUcash file you refer to was created by me to help Parabola keep
> track of donations and expenses related to the Parabola fund handled by
> Funda?ia Ceata. Before that, I was monitoring the Donations wiki page
> and helping fauno and you to keep it accurate and up-to-date, and also
> improve it (as it can be seen in the page history, e.g. [4][5][6]). For
> each notification of a new donation for Parabola I have received, I have
> informed fauno promptly and I'm sure he can confirm this.
> 
> [4]
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=16404&oldid=16333
> [5]
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=16750&oldid=16404
> [6]
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=16752&oldid=16751
> 
> I've created the GNUcash file after the first big expenses (with the
> occasion of the FISL conference) to further help Parabola. Since then
> I've regularly updated and sent the GNUcash file to fauno. I consider
> all of this proof of the transparency I've showed Parabola.
> 
> Besides this, I've helped Parabola get sponsorships from companies, like
> Robofun (BeagleBone) [7], Gandi (domain) [8] and Technoethical, having
> noticed that the donations Parabola receives are mainly from individuals
> (and some of them are also volunteering time to Parabola).
> 
> [7]
> https://www.parabola.nu/news/robofun-sponsors-parabola-arm-port-with-a-bbb-board/
> [8] https://www.parabola.nu/news/gandi-sponsors-parabola-domain-name/
> 
> I have tried to make available to Parabola as many donation methods as
> possible, including PayPal.
> 
> I've also helped promoting Parabola at conferences such as FOSDEM and
> Coliberator [8].
> 
> [8] https://www.parabola.nu/news/gandi-sponsors-parabola-domain-name/

This should have been [8']

[8']
https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-will-take-part-in-coliberator-2016/

> I never took credit for any of this, and because you have insisted, I
> told you you can credit Funda?ia Ceata instead. Also, I've never used my
> position and my help to influence the internal affairs of Parabola.
> 
> This introduction I made is to help people reading this public thread to
> get the picture.
> 
>> * Why were all of our BTC converted to RON?
> 
> Parabola hackers have decided that Funda?ia Ceata should handle all
> Parabola assets, including and specifically also donations in the
> cryptocurrencies Bitcoin and Faircoin. Below are excerpts from my
> communication with fauno on the matter:
> 
> On 24.11.2015 01:07, Tiberiu wrote:
>> Have you decided, will the virtual coins be handled by Ceata?
> 
> On 24.11.2015 01:09, fauno wrote:
>> apparently, i'll send you the details as soon as a i can.
> 
> On 24.11.2015 01:11, Tiberiu wrote:
>> Okay, meanwhile I'll setup a new Bitcoin wallet for Ceata and I will
>> document myself about Faircoin to create an account for this currency
> 
> On 24.11.2015 01:15, fauno wrote:
>> i can send you the electrum seed so you can regain control of the
>> existing btc wallet.
> 
> On 24.11.2015 02:13, Tiberiu wrote:
>> I have set up Faircoin with Electrum. How should we go about
>> transferring control for this currency?
> 
> On 24.11.2015 02:23, fauno wrote:
>> i don't have a seed for this, give me the new address and i'll
>> transfer you the fair and change it on the wiki.  you have to
>> exchange it for ron, no?
> 
> On 24.11.2015 09:01, Tiberiu wrote:
>> That's correct.
> 
> On 24.11.2015 14:25, Tiberiu wrote:
>> I have no experience with faircoin. How
>> long does confirming take and how can I convert them into RON (or
>> USD/EUR)? Should I convert them to bitcoin first? Or there is a direct
>> way too. I haven't researched yet, maybe you know.
> 
> On 24.11.2015 16:29, fauno wrote:
>> is it really needed to exchange them to ron?
> 
> On 24.11.2015 16:48, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> Sadly, yes, for accounting.
> 
>> I found an email about it
>> letting us know it was being done [3].
> 
> That's incorrect. I wasn't letting you know "it was being done", rather
> that _it has to be done_. I was replying to a donor in Bitcoin who was
> expressing his concerns about the "legal headaches" that his donation in
> Bitcoin can give to a nonprofit (Funda?ia Ceata).
> 
> In the e-mail you mentioned I've publicly explained on this mailing list
> the reason why Funda?ia Ceata cannot handle BTC without having to
> convert them into the national currency of Romania, RON.
> 
> On Tue Nov 3 13:45:45 GMT 2015, Tiberiu wrote:
>> For sure it's not a problem the originating currency is BTC. It will,
>> however, raise the question in the authorities' eyes: where did you have
>> USD to pay for that product? No bank statement showing you had that
>> money. Next question from the authorities: do you have a separate
>> deposit you are not declaring? The answer would be yes, we have a
>> separate wallet, in BTC. :-P
> 
> I would also like to remind everyone that as per ?5 of our Fiscal
> Sponsorship Agreement [9]:
> 
>> 5. **Parabola Fund Management / Performance of Tax-exempt Purposes.**
>>    All of the assets received by Ceata under the terms of this Agreement
>>    shall be devoted to the purpose of Parabola, within the tax-exempt
>>    purposes of Ceata.  The Parties agree not to use its funds or operate
>>    in any way which would jeopardize the tax-exempt status of Ceata.
> 
> [9]
> https://git.parabola.nu/ceata-agreement.git/tree/Parabola+Ceata_Agreement.markdown
> 
>> I remember, we agreed about it with you for legal reasons 
> 
> Yes, you (Parabola hackers, including fauno and you) were aware that BTC
> needs to be converted to RON and you have agreed with this for the
> reasons I mentioned above.
> 
>> (at that time I wasn't an investor, and
>> didn't understand about economics).
> 
> I wonder how this is relevant to running a nonprofit. Or is it just
> self-glorification.
> 
>> However, I don't remember when it
>> was done, if it was **all** or just some of the BTC, for expense, annual
>> declaration, etc.
> 
> There is no mystery about this. Check the GNUcash file and see the
> screenshot attached for verification.
> 
>> Could you let us know if there was a consensus about this and if there
>> are references from Romanian laws stating that it is mandatory? I
>> realize this was a long time ago, but it is an important question for
>> our community.
> 
> Bitcoin is not a recognized currency in Romania and few countries in the
> world give it a legal status [10].
> 
> [10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country
> 
> A donation in Bitcoin received by an individual becomes donation for
> Funda?ia Ceata only when it is deposited in its bank account. Until
> then, it doesn't exist in Ceata's accounting, can't be declared, can't
> be used for covering expenses.
> 
>> * What is the issue if we were to keep donations inside our bitcoin
>> wallet (a.k.a. "limbo") until we would declare it (eg. annual
>> declaration or when someone will use it for expenses) to avoid wasting
>> our gains?
> 
> Here you are assuming that the Bitcoin price only goes up and that it
> doesn't vary dramatically at times. You assume that the best practice is
> to exchange BTC at the end of each fiscal year.
> 
> Anyway, this is exactly what I've done in December 2015, as everyone can
> see in the screenshot attached and in the GNUcash file. I have exchanged
> BTC in RON at BitcoinRomania [11], to my knowledge the only Bitcoin
> exchange in Romania.
> 
> [11] https://trade.bitcoinromania.ro/
> 
> In January of 2016, Parabola has received a donation of 2 BTC, which was
> double the amount of bitcoins Parabola had received by December 2015. To
> avoid any risk to be judged for waiting too long to exchange BTC while
> its price could have dropped, I have exchanged the ~2 BTC the same
> month, in January 2016. I considered it's safest to exchange in January,
> so that the exchange rate is closest to the one I exchanged BTC one
> month earlier.
> 
> Finally, there is minimum amount of RON that one can sell BTC for, and
> since the BTC donations Parabola has received by end of August 2016 were
> only 0.15 BTC, I have exchanged this small amount of BTC the same time I
> have exchanged my own BTC.
> 
>> * If all money converted from bitcoins (BTC) to RON was for legal
>> reasons, then why weren't our faircoins (FAIR) converted too?
> 
> As you can find in the excerpts from my communication with fauno on
> setting up cryptocurrency donations for Parabola, we couldn't find a way
> to exchange FAIR to any intermediary currency to be exchanged in the end
> in RON. Considering that the amount of 1100 FAIR (see second screenshot)
> had and still has a small value, now being less than $50 USD [12], I
> didn't consider it's relevant to anyone for me to lose more of my time
> on finding a solution. This was my evaluation back in December 2015 and
> I haven't checked later if the situation has improved and if now there
> are any options to exchange FAIR to BTC/EUR/USD intermediately or to RON
> directly.
> 
> [12] https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/faircoin/
> 
>> * If converting our crypt-coins to any currency such as RON, is needed
>> we would like to receive references from Romanian laws for better
>> clarification and to avoid misunderstanding inside our community.
>> Several anon donors asked me for references in private. Could you give
>> us references about those points from Romanian laws?
> 
> The answer to this question is included in my explanations above. Since
> BTC is not regulated in Romania, I can only point you to accounting
> questions on forums such as this one [13].
> 
> [13] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=699556.0
> 
>> * Why did we convert our assets to RON instead of EUR? Is it a better
>> currency than EUR (we have an account in EUR too)? Is it for some legal
>> reason? Could you give us references about this?
> 
> All fiscal declarations are in national currency, RON. Funda?ia Ceata's
> EUR bank account exists for the sole reason we accept donations in EUR.
> If it doesn't exist, our bank opens an EUR account and charges a big fee
> of ?15 EUR for the emergency opening of an account in foreign currency.
> This is why we keep EUR and USD accounts for Ceata.
> 
> Romanian national currency RON is quite stable, 1 EUR = [4.3,4.6] RON in
> the past 2 years [14]. That is a ?0.05 EUR variation (a ?5 variation).
> 
> [14] http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=RON&view=2Y
> 
>> * We would like to receive money as paid hackers (not only for
>> non-profit things) since we have plans to offer services such as
>> technical support, pentesting, webstore, videogames, etc. Is it possible
>> to still do this with Ceata since you are a non-profit entity?
> 
> Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a term of 1 (one)
> year and it has been automatically renewed on 24 September 2016. I
> remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any fee for handling
> its donations and expenses.
> 
> Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal sponsorship (such as
> FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their umbrella with a
> standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR for the income
> Parabola has received so far.
> 
> Considering that there is a number of Parabola hackers/donors
> unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our decision to
> terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the "sixty (60)
> days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as per ?7.
> 
>> * If it isn't possible, then we should open a legal entity (eg.
>> offshore) for Parabola and declare our gains in our residential
>> countries or another similar legal ways (eg. micro-business), then my
>> question is: Could be it a trouble for you since we will receive profit
>> assets and your non-profit ones? Could help us giving us references from
>> Romanian laws to help understand it better?
> 
> As per ?7(a), as of now you are free to look for a "Fiscal Sponsor
> Successor", which has to be "another *nonprofit* organization which is
> tax-exempt". As per ?7(b), we will only transfer the Parabola fund to a
> nonprofit, that communicates "its willingness to sponsor Parabola in
> writing to Ceata".
> 
> As per ?7(c), "Termination Without a Fiscal Sponsor Successor" by the
> end of the 60 days, will render the Parabola fund "inactive for any
> motive other than transference to a Fiscal Sponsor Successor".
> 
>> * Since we have our GNUcash file already sent by fauno, could you send
>> to fauno all paperworks, bills, invoices, currency exchange copies
>> declared by Ceata about our expenses? It's very important, since
>> Parabola has a policy about transparency for our donations. These should
>> be posted on our wiki so that donors are no longer worried.
> 
> No problem. I believe most of the bills and invoices are already public,
> and I will look in the archives for the rest of them. It will all be
> ready by the time we transfer the Parabola fund to the Fiscal Sponsor
> Successor.
> 
> Tiberiu
> 
>> [0]:https://repomirror.parabola.nu/other/parabola-accounting/monetary-donations/20170111/
>> [1]:https://git.parabola.nu/accounting.git/
>> [2]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/#fauno
>> [3]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-November/003456.html

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From nobody at parabola.nu  Wed Apr  5 20:29:59 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 20:29:59 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [angrysearch] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170405202959.1103.58042@proton.parabola.nu>

lukp0d at ya.ru wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* angrysearch 0.9.9-1 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/angrysearch/


The user provided the following additional text:

1.0.0



From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr  5 21:39:17 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 21:39:17 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>

On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>
>> Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a term of 1 (one)
>> year and it has been automatically renewed on 24 September 2016. I
>> remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any fee for handling
>> its donations and expenses.
>>
>> Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal sponsorship (such as
>> FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their umbrella with a
>> standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR for the income
>> Parabola has received so far.
>>
>> Considering that there is a number of Parabola hackers/donors
>> unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our decision to
>> terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the "sixty (60)
>> days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as per ?7.
>>
>>

I just wanted to take a moment to say that while questions were being
asked by members of our community, no one has made the public the
decision to "terminate".
However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us (which is
allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement within 60 days.

As for current consensus:
I think we should immediately remove donation links from the website to
avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until this matter is
resolved.



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From tct at ceata.org  Wed Apr  5 22:01:27 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 01:01:27 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58E56937.4060206@ceata.org>

On 06.04.2017 00:39, Luke wrote:
> On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>>> Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a term of 1 (one)
>>> year and it has been automatically renewed on 24 September 2016. I
>>> remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any fee for handling
>>> its donations and expenses.
>>>
>>> Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal sponsorship (such as
>>> FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their umbrella with a
>>> standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR for the income
>>> Parabola has received so far.
>>>
>>> Considering that there is a number of Parabola hackers/donors
>>> unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our decision to
>>> terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the "sixty (60)
>>> days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as per ?7.

[...]
> However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us (which is
> allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement within 60 days.
[...]

Ceata hasn't made this decision for Parabola, Ceata has made this
decision for itself (Ceata). There are two parties in this agreement and
each one has the right to terminate the agreement unilaterally. Ceata
has just done that.

And I remind you that the text of the agreement has been intensively
debated in Parabola community and its final form was adopted by
consensus. 60 days is what you have agreed it should be the deadline.

Tiberiu

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From coadde at riseup.net  Wed Apr  5 23:27:43 2017
From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 23:27:43 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>

On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
> On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>>
>>> Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a term of 1 (one)
>>> year and it has been automatically renewed on 24 September 2016. I
>>> remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any fee for handling
>>> its donations and expenses.
>>>
>>> Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal sponsorship (such as
>>> FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their umbrella with a
>>> standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR for the income
>>> Parabola has received so far.
>>>
>>> Considering that there is a number of Parabola hackers/donors
>>> unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our decision to
>>> terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the "sixty (60)
>>> days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as per ?7.
>>>
>>>
> 
> I just wanted to take a moment to say that while questions were being
> asked by members of our community, no one has made the public the
> decision to "terminate".
> However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us (which is
> allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement within 60 days.
> 
> As for current consensus:
> I think we should immediately remove donation links from the website to
> avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until this matter is
> resolved.

+1

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From srw at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr  5 23:31:40 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar Wangberg)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 01:31:40 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>

on., 05.04.2017 kl. 23.27 +0000, skrev coadde:
> On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
> > On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a term
> > > > of 1 (one)
> > > > year and it has been automatically renewed on 24 September
> > > > 2016. I
> > > > remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any fee for
> > > > handling
> > > > its donations and expenses.
> > > > 
> > > > Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal sponsorship
> > > > (such as
> > > > FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their
> > > > umbrella with a
> > > > standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR for the
> > > > income
> > > > Parabola has received so far.
> > > > 
> > > > Considering that there is a number of Parabola hackers/donors
> > > > unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our decision
> > > > to
> > > > terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the
> > > > "sixty (60)
> > > > days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as per ?7.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > I just wanted to take a moment to say that while questions were
> > being
> > asked by members of our community, no one has made the public the
> > decision to "terminate".
> > However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us (which is
> > allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement within
> > 60 days.
> > 
> > As for current consensus:
> > I think we should immediately remove donation links from the
> > website to
> > avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until this
> > matter is
> > resolved.
> 
> +1

+1

> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From crazytoon at riseup.net  Wed Apr  5 23:36:07 2017
From: crazytoon at riseup.net (Crazytoon)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 20:36:07 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>

El 05/04/17 a las 20:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
> on., 05.04.2017 kl. 23.27 +0000, skrev coadde:
>> On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
>>> On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a term
>>>>> of 1 (one)
>>>>> year and it has been automatically renewed on 24 September
>>>>> 2016. I
>>>>> remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any fee for
>>>>> handling
>>>>> its donations and expenses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal sponsorship
>>>>> (such as
>>>>> FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their
>>>>> umbrella with a
>>>>> standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR for the
>>>>> income
>>>>> Parabola has received so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> Considering that there is a number of Parabola hackers/donors
>>>>> unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our decision
>>>>> to
>>>>> terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the
>>>>> "sixty (60)
>>>>> days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as per ?7.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> I just wanted to take a moment to say that while questions were
>>> being
>>> asked by members of our community, no one has made the public the
>>> decision to "terminate".
>>> However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us (which is
>>> allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement within
>>> 60 days.
>>>
>>> As for current consensus:
>>> I think we should immediately remove donation links from the
>>> website to
>>> avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until this
>>> matter is
>>> resolved.
>>
>> +1
> 
> +1

+1

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr  5 23:39:11 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 20:39:11 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packaging] Error when compiling in clean ARMv7h chroot
Message-ID: <82df3830-6036-d15c-7c46-813a64950da7@openmailbox.org>

hi devs, I'm having an issue when trying to compile dpkg with libretools
for armv7h (I'm using a x86 machine). I couldn't find anything useful to
solve this, I send you the log.

Thanks in advance.
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From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 06:18:13 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 08:18:13 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 (crazytoon@riseup.net's message of "Wed, 5 Apr 2017 20:36:07 -0300")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>

Crazytoon <crazytoon at riseup.net> writes:

> El 05/04/17 a las 20:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
>> on., 05.04.2017 kl. 23.27 +0000, skrev coadde:
>>> On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
>>>> On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a term
>>>>>> of 1 (one)
>>>>>> year and it has been automatically renewed on 24 September
>>>>>> 2016. I
>>>>>> remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any fee for
>>>>>> handling
>>>>>> its donations and expenses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal sponsorship
>>>>>> (such as
>>>>>> FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their
>>>>>> umbrella with a
>>>>>> standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR for the
>>>>>> income
>>>>>> Parabola has received so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Considering that there is a number of Parabola hackers/donors
>>>>>> unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our decision
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the
>>>>>> "sixty (60)
>>>>>> days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as per ?7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted to take a moment to say that while questions were
>>>> being
>>>> asked by members of our community, no one has made the public the
>>>> decision to "terminate".
>>>> However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us (which is
>>>> allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement within
>>>> 60 days.
>>>>
>>>> As for current consensus:
>>>> I think we should immediately remove donation links from the
>>>> website to
>>>> avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until this
>>>> matter is
>>>> resolved.
>>>
>>> +1
>> 
>> +1
>
> +1

+1

I would like to bring you back in time when I said that I am against the
money. Parabola was at first a mate adventure and continue to be one.

I have no doubt about fauno and would be really pleased that you the
people of that community get time to think of some important points:

This project offer us many things from personnal being to knowledge.

Nowadays thanks GNU and thanks Parabola because I have a job and that
job comes from the knowledge all people of GNU shared with me and offer
me the chance of practicing.

Afaik from the day money comes here, it change many things from the
share of practicing essential part of the project to the reason why
people act.

Speaking of people act, the first part of that mail comes from nowhere
so that mean a private exchange around a public situation.

The dark corner of the money are just like this:

"Dark corners are basically fractal?no matter how much you illuminate,
there?s always a smaller but darker one."   -? Brian Kernighan

Money must be kicked out from that place and never comes back.

Yes the project need money for servers and many other things, but get
time to understand that we load and run it during many years without
donation rules, just on the point of discussion.

Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.


From srw at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 10:04:48 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar Wangberg)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 12:04:48 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <1491473088.2368.1.camel@openmailbox.org>

to., 06.04.2017 kl. 08.18 +0200, skrev aurelien:
> Crazytoon <crazytoon at riseup.net> writes:
> 
> > El 05/04/17 a las 20:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
> > > on., 05.04.2017 kl. 23.27 +0000, skrev coadde:
> > > > On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
> > > > > On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a
> > > > > > > term
> > > > > > > of 1 (one)
> > > > > > > year and it has been automatically renewed on 24
> > > > > > > September
> > > > > > > 2016. I
> > > > > > > remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any
> > > > > > > fee for
> > > > > > > handling
> > > > > > > its donations and expenses.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal
> > > > > > > sponsorship
> > > > > > > (such as
> > > > > > > FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their
> > > > > > > umbrella with a
> > > > > > > standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR
> > > > > > > for the
> > > > > > > income
> > > > > > > Parabola has received so far.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Considering that there is a number of Parabola
> > > > > > > hackers/donors
> > > > > > > unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our
> > > > > > > decision
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the
> > > > > > > "sixty (60)
> > > > > > > days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as
> > > > > > > per ?7.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I just wanted to take a moment to say that while questions
> > > > > were
> > > > > being
> > > > > asked by members of our community, no one has made the public
> > > > > the
> > > > > decision to "terminate".
> > > > > However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us
> > > > > (which is
> > > > > allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement
> > > > > within
> > > > > 60 days.
> > > > > 
> > > > > As for current consensus:
> > > > > I think we should immediately remove donation links from the
> > > > > website to
> > > > > avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until this
> > > > > matter is
> > > > > resolved.
> > > > 
> > > > +1
> > > 
> > > +1
> > 
> > +1
> 
> +1
> 
> I would like to bring you back in time when I said that I am against
> the
> money. Parabola was at first a mate adventure and continue to be one.
> 
> I have no doubt about fauno and would be really pleased that you the
> people of that community get time to think of some important points:
> 
> This project offer us many things from personnal being to knowledge.
> 
> Nowadays thanks GNU and thanks Parabola because I have a job and that
> job comes from the knowledge all people of GNU shared with me and
> offer
> me the chance of practicing.
> 
> Afaik from the day money comes here, it change many things from the
> share of practicing essential part of the project to the reason why
> people act.
> 
> Speaking of people act, the first part of that mail comes from
> nowhere
> so that mean a private exchange around a public situation.
> 
> The dark corner of the money are just like this:
> 
> "Dark corners are basically fractal?no matter how much you
> illuminate,
> there?s always a smaller but darker one."???-? Brian Kernighan
> 
> Money must be kicked out from that place and never comes back.
> 
> Yes the project need money for servers and many other things, but get
> time to understand that we load and run it during many years without
> donation rules, just on the point of discussion.
> 
> Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

I'm extremely thankful and grateful for Parabola and all I've learned
about computing and hacking these last few weeks. And I couldn't have
done it without the help, patience and understanding from my new
friends in this unique, wonderful community. 

I for one would love to see a world with a resource based economy
rather than a debt/interest one. (End the FED and Central Banking!) But
I would hate to see my friends - already working around the clock to
maintain the best distro in the world (!) - sell themselves to
companies doing non-free software and working with proprietary software
 just to make a living and only doing Parabola in their sparetime an
hour before bed. But that is not for me to deside, of course, I mean
how people are making a living. But I find this free community so
unique, helpful, developing (personally, per knowlegde, how-to,
freedom, friendship and more) that I would love for the devs to work
with Parabola and at the same time be able to pay their bills, devices
needed for building, maintaining, food and a place to live, for the
sake of keeping Parabola secure, safe, up to date and so on. It would
also be great for the philosophy of freedom if Parabola could be
promoted with the help of artifects like t-shirts, cups, stickers,
support, lectures (for schools, companies and others interested in the
use of free software) etc., which also would contribute to Parabola
economically. 

For me to be able to donate to Parabola and its devs, is a great joy
for me. Not the fact that this world have this perverse superstition of
a 'religion' called the monetary system, but due to the fact that I
strongly believe this will help freeing even more users from the
slavery caused by proprietary/non-free software and OSes. And for that
I - as a user - very much so need you guys to do what you love the most
and do best, i.e. Parabola! 

I very much welcome this new site for donating! I also welcome the idea
of having a store, offering support and so on. And personally I have
grown a lot in knowledge and know-how since I started to use Parabola.
And if my learning curve continues the way it has the last few weeks,
who knows; perhaps one day I can contribute to Parabola myself! I
myself don't have to worry about money ATM, but I would hate to see
Parabola lose quality because devs have no time to maintain it. So if
that means to pay the devs a little money through donations, then YES!
I'm in! 




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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Apr  6 10:30:48 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 10:30:48 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>

On 04/06/2017 06:18 AM, aurelien wrote:
> Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.

There's saying in Argentina "Padre no es quien enjendra, si no el que
cria" that means "Father is not who sired, but who raises", and
therefore i would say that **the community is his pillar** and not a
single person because AFAIK Parabola isn't based on **Meritocracy**, but
**Adhocracy**.

I suggest read "Overview" in Adhocracy article for further details [0]

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy#Overview


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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Apr  6 11:15:01 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 11:15:01 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>

On 04/06/2017 10:30 AM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 04/06/2017 06:18 AM, aurelien wrote:
>> Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.
> 
> There's saying in Argentina "Padre no es quien enjendra, si no el que
> cria" that means "Father is not who sired, but who raises", and
> therefore i would say that **the community is his pillar** and not a
> single person because AFAIK Parabola isn't based on **Meritocracy**, but
> **Adhocracy**.
> 
> I suggest read "Overview" in Adhocracy article for further details [0]
> 
> [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy#Overview

s|the community is his pillar|the community is its pillar|


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From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 12:12:54 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 14:12:54 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <1491473088.2368.1.camel@openmailbox.org> (Stig Roar Wangberg's
 message of "Thu, 06 Apr 2017 12:04:48 +0200")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <1491473088.2368.1.camel@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <877f2xrayh.fsf@hackers.camp>

Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org> writes:

> to., 06.04.2017 kl. 08.18 +0200, skrev aurelien:
>> Crazytoon <crazytoon at riseup.net> writes:
>> 
>> > El 05/04/17 a las 20:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
>> > > on., 05.04.2017 kl. 23.27 +0000, skrev coadde:
>> > > > On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
>> > > > > On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015 for a
>> > > > > > > term
>> > > > > > > of 1 (one)
>> > > > > > > year and it has been automatically renewed on 24
>> > > > > > > September
>> > > > > > > 2016. I
>> > > > > > > remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola any
>> > > > > > > fee for
>> > > > > > > handling
>> > > > > > > its donations and expenses.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal
>> > > > > > > sponsorship
>> > > > > > > (such as
>> > > > > > > FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under their
>> > > > > > > umbrella with a
>> > > > > > > standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250 EUR
>> > > > > > > for the
>> > > > > > > income
>> > > > > > > Parabola has received so far.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > Considering that there is a number of Parabola
>> > > > > > > hackers/donors
>> > > > > > > unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is our
>> > > > > > > decision
>> > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > terminate the current agreement. Please consider this the
>> > > > > > > "sixty (60)
>> > > > > > > days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata, as
>> > > > > > > per ?7.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > I just wanted to take a moment to say that while questions
>> > > > > were
>> > > > > being
>> > > > > asked by members of our community, no one has made the public
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > decision to "terminate".
>> > > > > However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us
>> > > > > (which is
>> > > > > allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement
>> > > > > within
>> > > > > 60 days.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > As for current consensus:
>> > > > > I think we should immediately remove donation links from the
>> > > > > website to
>> > > > > avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until this
>> > > > > matter is
>> > > > > resolved.
>> > > > 
>> > > > +1
>> > > 
>> > > +1
>> > 
>> > +1
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> I would like to bring you back in time when I said that I am against
>> the
>> money. Parabola was at first a mate adventure and continue to be one.
>> 
>> I have no doubt about fauno and would be really pleased that you the
>> people of that community get time to think of some important points:
>> 
>> This project offer us many things from personnal being to knowledge.
>> 
>> Nowadays thanks GNU and thanks Parabola because I have a job and that
>> job comes from the knowledge all people of GNU shared with me and
>> offer
>> me the chance of practicing.
>> 
>> Afaik from the day money comes here, it change many things from the
>> share of practicing essential part of the project to the reason why
>> people act.
>> 
>> Speaking of people act, the first part of that mail comes from
>> nowhere
>> so that mean a private exchange around a public situation.
>> 
>> The dark corner of the money are just like this:
>> 
>> "Dark corners are basically fractal?no matter how much you
>> illuminate,
>> there?s always a smaller but darker one."???-? Brian Kernighan
>> 
>> Money must be kicked out from that place and never comes back.
>> 
>> Yes the project need money for servers and many other things, but get
>> time to understand that we load and run it during many years without
>> donation rules, just on the point of discussion.
>> 
>> Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dev mailing list
>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>
> I'm extremely thankful and grateful for Parabola and all I've learned
> about computing and hacking these last few weeks. And I couldn't have
> done it without the help, patience and understanding from my new
> friends in this unique, wonderful community. 
>
> I for one would love to see a world with a resource based economy
> rather than a debt/interest one. (End the FED and Central Banking!) But
> I would hate to see my friends - already working around the clock to
> maintain the best distro in the world (!) - sell themselves to
> companies doing non-free software and working with proprietary software
>  just to make a living and only doing Parabola in their sparetime an
> hour before bed. But that is not for me to deside, of course, I mean
> how people are making a living. But I find this free community so
> unique, helpful, developing (personally, per knowlegde, how-to,
> freedom, friendship and more) that I would love for the devs to work
> with Parabola and at the same time be able to pay their bills, devices
> needed for building, maintaining, food and a place to live, for the
> sake of keeping Parabola secure, safe, up to date and so on. It would
> also be great for the philosophy of freedom if Parabola could be
> promoted with the help of artifects like t-shirts, cups, stickers,
> support, lectures (for schools, companies and others interested in the
> use of free software) etc., which also would contribute to Parabola
> economically. 
>
> For me to be able to donate to Parabola and its devs, is a great joy
> for me. Not the fact that this world have this perverse superstition of
> a 'religion' called the monetary system, but due to the fact that I
> strongly believe this will help freeing even more users from the
> slavery caused by proprietary/non-free software and OSes. And for that
> I - as a user - very much so need you guys to do what you love the most
> and do best, i.e. Parabola! 
>
> I very much welcome this new site for donating! I also welcome the idea
> of having a store, offering support and so on. And personally I have
> grown a lot in knowledge and know-how since I started to use Parabola.
> And if my learning curve continues the way it has the last few weeks,
> who knows; perhaps one day I can contribute to Parabola myself! I
> myself don't have to worry about money ATM, but I would hate to see
> Parabola lose quality because devs have no time to maintain it. So if
> that means to pay the devs a little money through donations, then YES!
> I'm in! 

No worries about that I am payed to spreed about free software to all
the engineers around me.

So the point about Parabola is not that you give free time you get paid
to learn the price you won is the study you do not have to pay.

-- aurelien


From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 12:18:47 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 14:18:47 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 (=?utf-8?Q?=22Andr=C3=A9?=
 Silva"'s message of "Thu, 6 Apr 2017 11:15:01 +0000")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp>

Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> writes:

> On 04/06/2017 10:30 AM, Andr? Silva wrote:
>> On 04/06/2017 06:18 AM, aurelien wrote:
>>> Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.
>> 
>> There's saying in Argentina "Padre no es quien enjendra, si no el que
>> cria" that means "Father is not who sired, but who raises", and
>> therefore i would say that **the community is his pillar** and not a
>> single person because AFAIK Parabola isn't based on **Meritocracy**, but
>> **Adhocracy**.
>> 
>> I suggest read "Overview" in Adhocracy article for further details [0]
>> 
>> [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy#Overview
>
> s|the community is his pillar|the community is its pillar|

/me remember when you arrived in the community.

Emulatorman, can you tell us what you think about the fact that I learn
about a part of a conversation that should have been be public from
first word.

Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
subject that concern all of us?

--
aurelien


From srw at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 12:22:14 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar Wangberg)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 14:22:14 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <877f2xrayh.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <1491473088.2368.1.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <877f2xrayh.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <1491481334.9437.1.camel@openmailbox.org>

to., 06.04.2017 kl. 14.12 +0200, skrev aurelien:
> Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org> writes:
> 
> > to., 06.04.2017 kl. 08.18 +0200, skrev aurelien:
> > > Crazytoon <crazytoon at riseup.net> writes:
> > > 
> > > > El 05/04/17 a las 20:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
> > > > > on., 05.04.2017 kl. 23.27 +0000, skrev coadde:
> > > > > > On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
> > > > > > > On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015
> > > > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > term
> > > > > > > > > of 1 (one)
> > > > > > > > > year and it has been automatically renewed on 24
> > > > > > > > > September
> > > > > > > > > 2016. I
> > > > > > > > > remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola
> > > > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > > fee for
> > > > > > > > > handling
> > > > > > > > > its donations and expenses.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal
> > > > > > > > > sponsorship
> > > > > > > > > (such as
> > > > > > > > > FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under
> > > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > umbrella with a
> > > > > > > > > standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250
> > > > > > > > > EUR
> > > > > > > > > for the
> > > > > > > > > income
> > > > > > > > > Parabola has received so far.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Considering that there is a number of Parabola
> > > > > > > > > hackers/donors
> > > > > > > > > unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is
> > > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > decision
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > terminate the current agreement. Please consider this
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > "sixty (60)
> > > > > > > > > days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata,
> > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > per ?7.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I just wanted to take a moment to say that while
> > > > > > > questions
> > > > > > > were
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > asked by members of our community, no one has made the
> > > > > > > public
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > decision to "terminate".
> > > > > > > However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us
> > > > > > > (which is
> > > > > > > allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a
> > > > > > > replacement
> > > > > > > within
> > > > > > > 60 days.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > As for current consensus:
> > > > > > > I think we should immediately remove donation links from
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > website to
> > > > > > > avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > matter is
> > > > > > > resolved.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > +1
> > > > > 
> > > > > +1
> > > > 
> > > > +1
> > > 
> > > +1
> > > 
> > > I would like to bring you back in time when I said that I am
> > > against
> > > the
> > > money. Parabola was at first a mate adventure and continue to be
> > > one.
> > > 
> > > I have no doubt about fauno and would be really pleased that you
> > > the
> > > people of that community get time to think of some important
> > > points:
> > > 
> > > This project offer us many things from personnal being to
> > > knowledge.
> > > 
> > > Nowadays thanks GNU and thanks Parabola because I have a job and
> > > that
> > > job comes from the knowledge all people of GNU shared with me and
> > > offer
> > > me the chance of practicing.
> > > 
> > > Afaik from the day money comes here, it change many things from
> > > the
> > > share of practicing essential part of the project to the reason
> > > why
> > > people act.
> > > 
> > > Speaking of people act, the first part of that mail comes from
> > > nowhere
> > > so that mean a private exchange around a public situation.
> > > 
> > > The dark corner of the money are just like this:
> > > 
> > > "Dark corners are basically fractal?no matter how much you
> > > illuminate,
> > > there?s always a smaller but darker one."???-? Brian Kernighan
> > > 
> > > Money must be kicked out from that place and never comes back.
> > > 
> > > Yes the project need money for servers and many other things, but
> > > get
> > > time to understand that we load and run it during many years
> > > without
> > > donation rules, just on the point of discussion.
> > > 
> > > Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Dev mailing list
> > > Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> > > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> > 
> > I'm extremely thankful and grateful for Parabola and all I've
> > learned
> > about computing and hacking these last few weeks. And I couldn't
> > have
> > done it without the help, patience and understanding from my new
> > friends in this unique, wonderful community.?
> > 
> > I for one would love to see a world with a resource based economy
> > rather than a debt/interest one. (End the FED and Central Banking!)
> > But
> > I would hate to see my friends - already working around the clock
> > to
> > maintain the best distro in the world (!) - sell themselves to
> > companies doing non-free software and working with proprietary
> > software
> > ?just to make a living and only doing Parabola in their sparetime
> > an
> > hour before bed. But that is not for me to deside, of course, I
> > mean
> > how people are making a living. But I find this free community so
> > unique, helpful, developing (personally, per knowlegde, how-to,
> > freedom, friendship and more) that I would love for the devs to
> > work
> > with Parabola and at the same time be able to pay their bills,
> > devices
> > needed for building, maintaining, food and a place to live, for the
> > sake of keeping Parabola secure, safe, up to date and so on. It
> > would
> > also be great for the philosophy of freedom if Parabola could be
> > promoted with the help of artifects like t-shirts, cups, stickers,
> > support, lectures (for schools, companies and others interested in
> > the
> > use of free software) etc., which also would contribute to Parabola
> > economically.?
> > 
> > For me to be able to donate to Parabola and its devs, is a great
> > joy
> > for me. Not the fact that this world have this perverse
> > superstition of
> > a 'religion' called the monetary system, but due to the fact that I
> > strongly believe this will help freeing even more users from the
> > slavery caused by proprietary/non-free software and OSes. And for
> > that
> > I - as a user - very much so need you guys to do what you love the
> > most
> > and do best, i.e. Parabola!?
> > 
> > I very much welcome this new site for donating! I also welcome the
> > idea
> > of having a store, offering support and so on. And personally I
> > have
> > grown a lot in knowledge and know-how since I started to use
> > Parabola.
> > And if my learning curve continues the way it has the last few
> > weeks,
> > who knows; perhaps one day I can contribute to Parabola myself! I
> > myself don't have to worry about money ATM, but I would hate to see
> > Parabola lose quality because devs have no time to maintain it. So
> > if
> > that means to pay the devs a little money through donations, then
> > YES!
> > I'm in!?
> 
> No worries about that I am payed to spreed about free software to all
> the engineers around me.
> 
> So the point about Parabola is not that you give free time you get
> paid
> to learn the price you won is the study you do not have to pay.
> 
> -- aurelien

I didn't quite get that last paragraph, but sure; if you get payed for
spreading free software, great! Good for you! I think other devs (like
those developing and maintaining Parabola full time) also would be
happy to get a small amount of payment for spreading free software and
a 100% free distro. Those already working, don't need to get payed for
doing Parabola, perhaps. But that's not the point. The donations is for
everyone. For Parabola! To make it grow, get stronger and to make sure
it has the devices/servers etc. it needs for that purpose. I'm just
saying I think it's a good idea. It's great to have a full time job and
demand from those who don't are going to work for free. Anyways, it's
just my humble opinion. 
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From mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com  Thu Apr  6 12:27:17 2017
From: mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com (Bill Auger)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 08:27:17 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible Builds
Message-ID: <CAD3PP06psLOFz=hGTAg+Fj68+MNeYsjcA7nQC58v21BntvxCtA@mail.gmail.com>

an IRC user suggested that they would like to see Parabola featured on the
reproducible-builds website and lukeshu answered that reproducibility was
indeed an active goal so i decided to look into it

i contacted some reproducible-builds team members to ask if they had a
review process and what sort of logistics were involved - in short, what it
amounts to is a script integrated into their jenkins server that
periodically downloads sources and runs verification builds then displays
the results on the web

the first thing they wanted to see understandably was some documentation of
the plan or progress to date - i unfortunately could not find anything
published regarding Parabola's efforts in this direction so i made a new
page on the Parabola wiki to serve as a jumping off point

https://wiki.parabola.nu/Reproducible_Builds

on that page there are listed several bullet points marked as 'TODO' that
were suggested by the reproducible-builds team as a good starting point for
consideration

i am willing to help out in any way i can but at this point im not sure who
is the most knowledgeable person regarding Parabola's reproducible build
procedure - someone with that internal knowledge will need to complete at
least the first couple of TODO items in order to move forward (some
preliminary documentation - namely, to describe something about the
procedures, tools, current progress, and/or goals)
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From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 12:47:36 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 14:47:36 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <1491481334.9437.1.camel@openmailbox.org> (Stig Roar Wangberg's
 message of "Thu, 06 Apr 2017 14:22:14 +0200")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <1491473088.2368.1.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <877f2xrayh.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <1491481334.9437.1.camel@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87y3vdpus7.fsf@hackers.camp>

Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org> writes:

> to., 06.04.2017 kl. 14.12 +0200, skrev aurelien:
>> Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org> writes:
>> 
>> > to., 06.04.2017 kl. 08.18 +0200, skrev aurelien:
>> > > Crazytoon <crazytoon at riseup.net> writes:
>> > > 
>> > > > El 05/04/17 a las 20:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
>> > > > > on., 05.04.2017 kl. 23.27 +0000, skrev coadde:
>> > > > > > On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
>> > > > > > > On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015
>> > > > > > > > > for a
>> > > > > > > > > term
>> > > > > > > > > of 1 (one)
>> > > > > > > > > year and it has been automatically renewed on 24
>> > > > > > > > > September
>> > > > > > > > > 2016. I
>> > > > > > > > > remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola
>> > > > > > > > > any
>> > > > > > > > > fee for
>> > > > > > > > > handling
>> > > > > > > > > its donations and expenses.
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal
>> > > > > > > > > sponsorship
>> > > > > > > > > (such as
>> > > > > > > > > FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under
>> > > > > > > > > their
>> > > > > > > > > umbrella with a
>> > > > > > > > > standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250
>> > > > > > > > > EUR
>> > > > > > > > > for the
>> > > > > > > > > income
>> > > > > > > > > Parabola has received so far.
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > Considering that there is a number of Parabola
>> > > > > > > > > hackers/donors
>> > > > > > > > > unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is
>> > > > > > > > > our
>> > > > > > > > > decision
>> > > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > terminate the current agreement. Please consider this
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > "sixty (60)
>> > > > > > > > > days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata,
>> > > > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > per ?7.
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > I just wanted to take a moment to say that while
>> > > > > > > questions
>> > > > > > > were
>> > > > > > > being
>> > > > > > > asked by members of our community, no one has made the
>> > > > > > > public
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > decision to "terminate".
>> > > > > > > However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us
>> > > > > > > (which is
>> > > > > > > allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a
>> > > > > > > replacement
>> > > > > > > within
>> > > > > > > 60 days.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > As for current consensus:
>> > > > > > > I think we should immediately remove donation links from
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > website to
>> > > > > > > avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until
>> > > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > matter is
>> > > > > > > resolved.
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > +1
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > +1
>> > > > 
>> > > > +1
>> > > 
>> > > +1
>> > > 
>> > > I would like to bring you back in time when I said that I am
>> > > against
>> > > the
>> > > money. Parabola was at first a mate adventure and continue to be
>> > > one.
>> > > 
>> > > I have no doubt about fauno and would be really pleased that you
>> > > the
>> > > people of that community get time to think of some important
>> > > points:
>> > > 
>> > > This project offer us many things from personnal being to
>> > > knowledge.
>> > > 
>> > > Nowadays thanks GNU and thanks Parabola because I have a job and
>> > > that
>> > > job comes from the knowledge all people of GNU shared with me and
>> > > offer
>> > > me the chance of practicing.
>> > > 
>> > > Afaik from the day money comes here, it change many things from
>> > > the
>> > > share of practicing essential part of the project to the reason
>> > > why
>> > > people act.
>> > > 
>> > > Speaking of people act, the first part of that mail comes from
>> > > nowhere
>> > > so that mean a private exchange around a public situation.
>> > > 
>> > > The dark corner of the money are just like this:
>> > > 
>> > > "Dark corners are basically fractal?no matter how much you
>> > > illuminate,
>> > > there?s always a smaller but darker one."???-? Brian Kernighan
>> > > 
>> > > Money must be kicked out from that place and never comes back.
>> > > 
>> > > Yes the project need money for servers and many other things, but
>> > > get
>> > > time to understand that we load and run it during many years
>> > > without
>> > > donation rules, just on the point of discussion.
>> > > 
>> > > Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Dev mailing list
>> > > Dev at lists.parabola.nu
>> > > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>> > 
>> > I'm extremely thankful and grateful for Parabola and all I've
>> > learned
>> > about computing and hacking these last few weeks. And I couldn't
>> > have
>> > done it without the help, patience and understanding from my new
>> > friends in this unique, wonderful community.?
>> > 
>> > I for one would love to see a world with a resource based economy
>> > rather than a debt/interest one. (End the FED and Central Banking!)
>> > But
>> > I would hate to see my friends - already working around the clock
>> > to
>> > maintain the best distro in the world (!) - sell themselves to
>> > companies doing non-free software and working with proprietary
>> > software
>> > ?just to make a living and only doing Parabola in their sparetime
>> > an
>> > hour before bed. But that is not for me to deside, of course, I
>> > mean
>> > how people are making a living. But I find this free community so
>> > unique, helpful, developing (personally, per knowlegde, how-to,
>> > freedom, friendship and more) that I would love for the devs to
>> > work
>> > with Parabola and at the same time be able to pay their bills,
>> > devices
>> > needed for building, maintaining, food and a place to live, for the
>> > sake of keeping Parabola secure, safe, up to date and so on. It
>> > would
>> > also be great for the philosophy of freedom if Parabola could be
>> > promoted with the help of artifects like t-shirts, cups, stickers,
>> > support, lectures (for schools, companies and others interested in
>> > the
>> > use of free software) etc., which also would contribute to Parabola
>> > economically.?
>> > 
>> > For me to be able to donate to Parabola and its devs, is a great
>> > joy
>> > for me. Not the fact that this world have this perverse
>> > superstition of
>> > a 'religion' called the monetary system, but due to the fact that I
>> > strongly believe this will help freeing even more users from the
>> > slavery caused by proprietary/non-free software and OSes. And for
>> > that
>> > I - as a user - very much so need you guys to do what you love the
>> > most
>> > and do best, i.e. Parabola!?
>> > 
>> > I very much welcome this new site for donating! I also welcome the
>> > idea
>> > of having a store, offering support and so on. And personally I
>> > have
>> > grown a lot in knowledge and know-how since I started to use
>> > Parabola.
>> > And if my learning curve continues the way it has the last few
>> > weeks,
>> > who knows; perhaps one day I can contribute to Parabola myself! I
>> > myself don't have to worry about money ATM, but I would hate to see
>> > Parabola lose quality because devs have no time to maintain it. So
>> > if
>> > that means to pay the devs a little money through donations, then
>> > YES!
>> > I'm in!?
>> 
>> No worries about that I am payed to spreed about free software to all
>> the engineers around me.
>> 
>> So the point about Parabola is not that you give free time you get
>> paid
>> to learn the price you won is the study you do not have to pay.
>> 
>> -- aurelien
>
> I didn't quite get that last paragraph, but sure; if you get payed for
> spreading free software, great! Good for you! I think other devs (like
> those developing and maintaining Parabola full time) also would be
> happy to get a small amount of payment for spreading free software and
> a 100% free distro. Those already working, don't need to get payed for
> doing Parabola, perhaps. But that's not the point. The donations is for
> everyone. For Parabola! To make it grow, get stronger and to make sure
> it has the devices/servers etc. it needs for that purpose. I'm just
> saying I think it's a good idea. It's great to have a full time job and
> demand from those who don't are going to work for free. Anyways, it's
> just my humble opinion. 

certainly, but I do not see where fauno get the money rather than for
parabola so what is the trouble exactly ??

because from what I read he does not get the money for hiself.

and no one respond me about the dark mail exchange around that I
consider as a trap to one of thus who load the project. (and really not
appreciate)


--
aurelien


From adfeno at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 12:50:23 2017
From: adfeno at openmailbox.org (Adonay Felipe Nogueira)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 09:50:23 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org> (Luke's
 message of "Wed, 5 Apr 2017 21:39:17 +0000")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <874ly1zomo.fsf@openmailbox.org>

I'm reading the messages about this issue, and I have some suggestions:

I don't know if this serves as valid fiscal sponsors, but perhaps we can
contact Associa??o Software Livre (ASL, from Brasil) --- not to be
confused with FSFLA ---, and Cooperativa de Trabalho em Tecnologias
Livres (Colivre, also from Brasil).

- ASL: [[http://softwarelivre.org/asl]].
- Colivre: [[http://colivre.coop.br/]].

Also, as future project, perhaps we can contribute to development of GNU
Taler ([[http://www.gnu.org/software/taler/]]), which would allow anyone
to send any-currency-of-money through the Internet (provided there are
other "authority" nodes, probably authorized by local governments, to
make taxations, when applicable to local rules).


Respectfully, Adonay.
-- 
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (n?o confundir com
  gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele n?o ? livre, por isso n?o uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
  Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que
  est? no endere?o acima aos teus contatos.
- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
  aceito, mas n?o repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favor?veis ao
  /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de d?vida.
- "People said I should accept the world. Bullshit! I don't accept the
  world."
                                                 --- Richard Stallman


From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr  6 12:59:22 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:59:22 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>

On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
> subject that concern all of us?

As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.

Tiberiu


From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 13:07:50 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 15:07:50 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org> (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic's message
 of "Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:59:22 +0300")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp>

Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:

> On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
>> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
>> subject that concern all of us?
>
> As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
> That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
> with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
> required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.
>
> Tiberiu

That is why money burst my ass.

We create that community for cool reason and are now poisonned by that
shit.

Get time to read about the ?Make_Me_Piss article.


--
aurelien


From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr  6 13:10:05 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:10:05 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>
 <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <58E63E2D.2050701@ceata.org>

On 06.04.2017 16:07, aurelien wrote:
> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
> 
>> On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
>>> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
>>> subject that concern all of us?
>>
>> As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
>> That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
>> with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
>> required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.
>>
>> Tiberiu
> 
> That is why money burst my ass.
> 
> We create that community for cool reason and are now poisonned by that
> shit.
> 
> Get time to read about the ?Make_Me_Piss article.

I don't appreciate your tone. And you can't possibly expect a fiscal
sponsor to communicate with the community directly. That'd be too much
of work and that's why a delegate was chosen by the community to speak
on its behalf to the fiscal sponsor. But this is hardly news. It's
established and agreed upon a long time ago.

Tiberiu


From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 13:15:36 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 15:15:36 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <58E63E2D.2050701@ceata.org> (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic's message
 of "Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:10:05 +0300")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>
 <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63E2D.2050701@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <87a87tpthj.fsf@hackers.camp>

Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:

> On 06.04.2017 16:07, aurelien wrote:
>> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>> 
>>> On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
>>>> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
>>>> subject that concern all of us?
>>>
>>> As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
>>> That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
>>> with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
>>> required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.
>>>
>>> Tiberiu
>> 
>> That is why money burst my ass.
>> 
>> We create that community for cool reason and are now poisonned by that
>> shit.
>> 
>> Get time to read about the ?Make_Me_Piss article.
>
> I don't appreciate your tone. And you can't possibly expect a fiscal
> sponsor to communicate with the community directly. That'd be too much
> of work and that's why a delegate was chosen by the community to speak
> on its behalf to the fiscal sponsor. But this is hardly news. It's
> established and agreed upon a long time ago.
>
> Tiberiu

Do not forget I was against the money from the first and you insist to
be.

So I do not appreciate that you force that by bringing people to vote
for something that they never get part of.

>From memory I have told you that this was a bad Idea for the community
you say their is no risk.

So no risk, no word. assume.



aurelien


From encycl at parlementum.red  Thu Apr  6 13:22:23 2017
From: encycl at parlementum.red (Charles Roth)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 06:22:23 -0700
Subject: [Dev] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0Re=3A_Some_doubts_about_Parabola=27s_dona?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?tions=A0?=
Message-ID: <qh0yam4dtfxrfnn83gugr0cg.1491484943071@email.android.com>

I think there needs to be a clear chronology of events. Preferably a wiki page. 

Things happened that weren't public

It's difficult to follow everything through this long thread.

Thank you.

On April 6, 2017, at 6:10 AM, dev-request at lists.parabola.nu wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Reproducible Builds (Bill Auger)
   2. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations (aurelien)
   3. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations
      (Adonay Felipe Nogueira)
   4. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations
      (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
   5. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations (aurelien)
   6. Re: Some doubts about Parabola's donations
      (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 08:27:17 -0400
From: Bill Auger <mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com>
To: dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible Builds
Message-ID:
	<CAD3PP06psLOFz=hGTAg+Fj68+MNeYsjcA7nQC58v21BntvxCtA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

an IRC user suggested that they would like to see Parabola featured on the
reproducible-builds website and lukeshu answered that reproducibility was
indeed an active goal so i decided to look into it

i contacted some reproducible-builds team members to ask if they had a
review process and what sort of logistics were involved - in short, what it
amounts to is a script integrated into their jenkins server that
periodically downloads sources and runs verification builds then displays
the results on the web

the first thing they wanted to see understandably was some documentation of
the plan or progress to date - i unfortunately could not find anything
published regarding Parabola's efforts in this direction so i made a new
page on the Parabola wiki to serve as a jumping off point

https://wiki.parabola.nu/Reproducible_Builds

on that page there are listed several bullet points marked as 'TODO' that
were suggested by the reproducible-builds team as a good starting point for
consideration

i am willing to help out in any way i can but at this point im not sure who
is the most knowledgeable person regarding Parabola's reproducible build
procedure - someone with that internal knowledge will need to complete at
least the first couple of TODO items in order to move forward (some
preliminary documentation - namely, to describe something about the
procedures, tools, current progress, and/or goals)
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 14:47:36 +0200
From: aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp>
To: Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org>
Cc: dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <87y3vdpus7.fsf at hackers.camp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org> writes:

> to., 06.04.2017 kl. 14.12 +0200, skrev aurelien:
>> Stig Roar Wangberg <srw at openmailbox.org> writes:
>> 
>> > to., 06.04.2017 kl. 08.18 +0200, skrev aurelien:
>> > > Crazytoon <crazytoon at riseup.net> writes:
>> > > 
>> > > > El 05/04/17 a las 20:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
>> > > > > on., 05.04.2017 kl. 23.27 +0000, skrev coadde:
>> > > > > > On 04/05/2017 09:39 PM, Luke wrote:
>> > > > > > > On 04/05/2017 04:51 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > Our agreement has been signed on 24 September 2015
>> > > > > > > > > for a
>> > > > > > > > > term
>> > > > > > > > > of 1 (one)
>> > > > > > > > > year and it has been automatically renewed on 24
>> > > > > > > > > September
>> > > > > > > > > 2016. I
>> > > > > > > > > remind everyone that Ceata doesn't charge Parabola
>> > > > > > > > > any
>> > > > > > > > > fee for
>> > > > > > > > > handling
>> > > > > > > > > its donations and expenses.
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > Any other free software nonprofit offering fiscal
>> > > > > > > > > sponsorship
>> > > > > > > > > (such as
>> > > > > > > > > FSF and SF Conservancy) charges the projects under
>> > > > > > > > > their
>> > > > > > > > > umbrella with a
>> > > > > > > > > standard fee of 10% of income. That is around ?250
>> > > > > > > > > EUR
>> > > > > > > > > for the
>> > > > > > > > > income
>> > > > > > > > > Parabola has received so far.
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > Considering that there is a number of Parabola
>> > > > > > > > > hackers/donors
>> > > > > > > > > unsatisfied with Ceata's fiscal sponsorship, it is
>> > > > > > > > > our
>> > > > > > > > > decision
>> > > > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > terminate the current agreement. Please consider this
>> > > > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > "sixty (60)
>> > > > > > > > > days written notice" I send you on behalf of Ceata,
>> > > > > > > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > per ?7.
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > I just wanted to take a moment to say that while
>> > > > > > > questions
>> > > > > > > were
>> > > > > > > being
>> > > > > > > asked by members of our community, no one has made the
>> > > > > > > public
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > decision to "terminate".
>> > > > > > > However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us
>> > > > > > > (which is
>> > > > > > > allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a
>> > > > > > > replacement
>> > > > > > > within
>> > > > > > > 60 days.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > As for current consensus:
>> > > > > > > I think we should immediately remove donation links from
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > website to
>> > > > > > > avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until
>> > > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > matter is
>> > > > > > > resolved.
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > +1
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > +1
>> > > > 
>> > > > +1
>> > > 
>> > > +1
>> > > 
>> > > I would like to bring you back in time when I said that I am
>> > > against
>> > > the
>> > > money. Parabola was at first a mate adventure and continue to be
>> > > one.
>> > > 
>> > > I have no doubt about fauno and would be really pleased that you
>> > > the
>> > > people of that community get time to think of some important
>> > > points:
>> > > 
>> > > This project offer us many things from personnal being to
>> > > knowledge.
>> > > 
>> > > Nowadays thanks GNU and thanks Parabola because I have a job and
>> > > that
>> > > job comes from the knowledge all people of GNU shared with me and
>> > > offer
>> > > me the chance of practicing.
>> > > 
>> > > Afaik from the day money comes here, it change many things from
>> > > the
>> > > share of practicing essential part of the project to the reason
>> > > why
>> > > people act.
>> > > 
>> > > Speaking of people act, the first part of that mail comes from
>> > > nowhere
>> > > so that mean a private exchange around a public situation.
>> > > 
>> > > The dark corner of the money are just like this:
>> > > 
>> > > "Dark corners are basically fractal?no matter how much you
>> > > illuminate,
>> > > there?s always a smaller but darker one."???-? Brian Kernighan
>> > > 
>> > > Money must be kicked out from that place and never comes back.
>> > > 
>> > > Yes the project need money for servers and many other things, but
>> > > get
>> > > time to understand that we load and run it during many years
>> > > without
>> > > donation rules, just on the point of discussion.
>> > > 
>> > > Parabola is a great school art works and fauno his pillar.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Dev mailing list
>> > > Dev at lists.parabola.nu
>> > > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>> > 
>> > I'm extremely thankful and grateful for Parabola and all I've
>> > learned
>> > about computing and hacking these last few weeks. And I couldn't
>> > have
>> > done it without the help, patience and understanding from my new
>> > friends in this unique, wonderful community.?
>> > 
>> > I for one would love to see a world with a resource based economy
>> > rather than a debt/interest one. (End the FED and Central Banking!)
>> > But
>> > I would hate to see my friends - already working around the clock
>> > to
>> > maintain the best distro in the world (!) - sell themselves to
>> > companies doing non-free software and working with proprietary
>> > software
>> > ?just to make a living and only doing Parabola in their sparetime
>> > an
>> > hour before bed. But that is not for me to deside, of course, I
>> > mean
>> > how people are making a living. But I find this free community so
>> > unique, helpful, developing (personally, per knowlegde, how-to,
>> > freedom, friendship and more) that I would love for the devs to
>> > work
>> > with Parabola and at the same time be able to pay their bills,
>> > devices
>> > needed for building, maintaining, food and a place to live, for the
>> > sake of keeping Parabola secure, safe, up to date and so on. It
>> > would
>> > also be great for the philosophy of freedom if Parabola could be
>> > promoted with the help of artifects like t-shirts, cups, stickers,
>> > support, lectures (for schools, companies and others interested in
>> > the
>> > use of free software) etc., which also would contribute to Parabola
>> > economically.?
>> > 
>> > For me to be able to donate to Parabola and its devs, is a great
>> > joy
>> > for me. Not the fact that this world have this perverse
>> > superstition of
>> > a 'religion' called the monetary system, but due to the fact that I
>> > strongly believe this will help freeing even more users from the
>> > slavery caused by proprietary/non-free software and OSes. And for
>> > that
>> > I - as a user - very much so need you guys to do what you love the
>> > most
>> > and do best, i.e. Parabola!?
>> > 
>> > I very much welcome this new site for donating! I also welcome the
>> > idea
>> > of having a store, offering support and so on. And personally I
>> > have
>> > grown a lot in knowledge and know-how since I started to use
>> > Parabola.
>> > And if my learning curve continues the way it has the last few
>> > weeks,
>> > who knows; perhaps one day I can contribute to Parabola myself! I
>> > myself don't have to worry about money ATM, but I would hate to see
>> > Parabola lose quality because devs have no time to maintain it. So
>> > if
>> > that means to pay the devs a little money through donations, then
>> > YES!
>> > I'm in!?
>> 
>> No worries about that I am payed to spreed about free software to all
>> the engineers around me.
>> 
>> So the point about Parabola is not that you give free time you get
>> paid
>> to learn the price you won is the study you do not have to pay.
>> 
>> -- aurelien
>
> I didn't quite get that last paragraph, but sure; if you get payed for
> spreading free software, great! Good for you! I think other devs (like
> those developing and maintaining Parabola full time) also would be
> happy to get a small amount of payment for spreading free software and
> a 100% free distro. Those already working, don't need to get payed for
> doing Parabola, perhaps. But that's not the point. The donations is for
> everyone. For Parabola! To make it grow, get stronger and to make sure
> it has the devices/servers etc. it needs for that purpose. I'm just
> saying I think it's a good idea. It's great to have a full time job and
> demand from those who don't are going to work for free. Anyways, it's
> just my humble opinion. 

certainly, but I do not see where fauno get the money rather than for
parabola so what is the trouble exactly ??

because from what I read he does not get the money for hiself.

and no one respond me about the dark mail exchange around that I
consider as a trap to one of thus who load the project. (and really not
appreciate)


--
aurelien


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 09:50:23 -0300
From: Adonay Felipe Nogueira <adfeno at openmailbox.org>
To: dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <874ly1zomo.fsf at openmailbox.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I'm reading the messages about this issue, and I have some suggestions:

I don't know if this serves as valid fiscal sponsors, but perhaps we can
contact Associa??o Software Livre (ASL, from Brasil) --- not to be
confused with FSFLA ---, and Cooperativa de Trabalho em Tecnologias
Livres (Colivre, also from Brasil).

- ASL: [[http://softwarelivre.org/asl]].
- Colivre: [[http://colivre.coop.br/]].

Also, as future project, perhaps we can contribute to development of GNU
Taler ([[http://www.gnu.org/software/taler/]]), which would allow anyone
to send any-currency-of-money through the Internet (provided there are
other "authority" nodes, probably authorized by local governments, to
make taxations, when applicable to local rules).


Respectfully, Adonay.
-- 
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (n?o confundir com
  gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele n?o ? livre, por isso n?o uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
  Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que
  est? no endere?o acima aos teus contatos.
- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
  aceito, mas n?o repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favor?veis ao
  /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de d?vida.
- "People said I should accept the world. Bullshit! I don't accept the
  world."
                                                 --- Richard Stallman


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:59:22 +0300
From: Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org>
To: aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp>, Andr? Silva
	<emulatorman at riseup.net>
Cc: dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <58E63BAA.9050905 at ceata.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
> subject that concern all of us?

As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.

Tiberiu


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 15:07:50 +0200
From: aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp>
To: Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org>
Cc: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>, dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <87efx5ptuh.fsf at hackers.camp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:

> On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
>> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
>> subject that concern all of us?
>
> As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
> That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
> with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
> required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.
>
> Tiberiu

That is why money burst my ass.

We create that community for cool reason and are now poisonned by that
shit.

Get time to read about the ?Make_Me_Piss article.


--
aurelien


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:10:05 +0300
From: Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org>
To: aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp>
Cc: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>, dev at lists.parabola.nu
Subject: Re: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
Message-ID: <58E63E2D.2050701 at ceata.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

On 06.04.2017 16:07, aurelien wrote:
> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
> 
>> On 06.04.2017 15:18, aurelien wrote:
>>> Why Ceata (and certainly other) have private conversation around the
>>> subject that concern all of us?
>>
>> As per ?2(a), fauno is Parabola's delegate to communicate with Ceata.
>> That was our agreement. And this agreement has been adopted by Parabola
>> with consensus after long discussions. Ceata leadership was never
>> required to engage with the community via a public communication channel.
>>
>> Tiberiu
> 
> That is why money burst my ass.
> 
> We create that community for cool reason and are now poisonned by that
> shit.
> 
> Get time to read about the ?Make_Me_Piss article.

I don't appreciate your tone. And you can't possibly expect a fiscal
sponsor to communicate with the community directly. That'd be too much
of work and that's why a delegate was chosen by the community to speak
on its behalf to the fiscal sponsor. But this is hardly news. It's
established and agreed upon a long time ago.

Tiberiu


------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of Dev Digest, Vol 67, Issue 6
**********************************

From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr  6 13:23:27 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:23:27 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87a87tpthj.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>
 <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63E2D.2050701@ceata.org>
 <87a87tpthj.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <58E6414F.3080204@ceata.org>

On 06.04.2017 16:15, aurelien wrote:
> Do not forget I was against the money from the first and you insist to
> be.

I remember you being the *only* one against money and you decided to
leave/left the community. You are still the only one against money here.
Your fellow hackers want to incorporate a company around Parabola.

> So I do not appreciate that you force that by bringing people to vote
> for something that they never get part of.

I haven't forced anyone to do anything, and I only helped.

I see that BTC value going up and down till it got at a value 2-3 times
the value one year and a half ago made some people forget Bitcoin was
just another donation method via a temporary currency.

You also tend to forget all the help I personally and my organization
have offered Parabola pro-bono. Now you throw dirt our way and that is
not ethical.

Tiberiu


From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 13:33:52 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 15:33:52 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <58E6414F.3080204@ceata.org> (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic's message
 of "Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:23:27 +0300")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>
 <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63E2D.2050701@ceata.org>
 <87a87tpthj.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E6414F.3080204@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <874ly1psn3.fsf@hackers.camp>

Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:

> On 06.04.2017 16:15, aurelien wrote:
>> Do not forget I was against the money from the first and you insist to
>> be.
>
> I remember you being the *only* one against money and you decided to
> leave/left the community. You are still the only one against money here.
> Your fellow hackers want to incorporate a company around Parabola.

I do not leave, I keep silent this is different.

>> So I do not appreciate that you force that by bringing people to vote
>> for something that they never get part of.
>
> I haven't forced anyone to do anything, and I only helped.
>
> I see that BTC value going up and down till it got at a value 2-3 times
> the value one year and a half ago made some people forget Bitcoin was
> just another donation method via a temporary currency.
>
> You also tend to forget all the help I personally and my organization
> have offered Parabola pro-bono. Now you throw dirt our way and that is
> not ethical.
>
> Tiberiu

Do not talk to me about ethical, you are the one who bring the poison.

--
aurelien


From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr  6 13:36:12 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:36:12 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <874ly1psn3.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>
 <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63E2D.2050701@ceata.org>
 <87a87tpthj.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E6414F.3080204@ceata.org>
 <874ly1psn3.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <58E6444C.7040001@ceata.org>

On 06.04.2017 16:33, aurelien wrote:
> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
> 
>> On 06.04.2017 16:15, aurelien wrote:
>>> Do not forget I was against the money from the first and you insist to
>>> be.
>>
>> I remember you being the *only* one against money and you decided to
>> leave/left the community. You are still the only one against money here.
>> Your fellow hackers want to incorporate a company around Parabola.
> 
> I do not leave, I keep silent this is different.

Then it must have been a different Aur?lien here:

[Dev] I quit Parabola project and the FSF.
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002460.html

Tiberiu


From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Thu Apr  6 13:49:54 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 08:49:54 -0500
Subject: [Dev] [Packaging] Error when compiling in clean ARMv7h chroot
In-Reply-To: <82df3830-6036-d15c-7c46-813a64950da7@openmailbox.org>
References: <82df3830-6036-d15c-7c46-813a64950da7@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1491486594.1085.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>

5 avril 2017 ? 18:39, Megver83:
> hi devs, I'm having an issue when trying to compile dpkg with 
> libretools
> for armv7h (I'm using a x86 machine). I couldn't find anything useful 
> to
> solve this, I send you the log.

it's not particular to dpkg, this needs to be sorted out in QEMU

https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1234

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943
Tox: 
0C730E0156E96E6193A1445D413557FF5F277BA969A4EA20AC9352889D3B390E77651E816F0C



From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 14:09:38 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 16:09:38 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <58E6444C.7040001@ceata.org> (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic's message
 of "Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:36:12 +0300")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>
 <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63E2D.2050701@ceata.org>
 <87a87tpthj.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E6414F.3080204@ceata.org>
 <874ly1psn3.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E6444C.7040001@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <87ziftocf1.fsf@hackers.camp>

Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:

> On 06.04.2017 16:33, aurelien wrote:
>> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>> 
>>> On 06.04.2017 16:15, aurelien wrote:
>>>> Do not forget I was against the money from the first and you insist to
>>>> be.
>>>
>>> I remember you being the *only* one against money and you decided to
>>> leave/left the community. You are still the only one against money here.
>>> Your fellow hackers want to incorporate a company around Parabola.
>> 
>> I do not leave, I keep silent this is different.
>
> Then it must have been a different Aur?lien here:
>
> [Dev] I quit Parabola project and the FSF.
> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002460.html
>
> Tiberiu
>
And after that I change my mind and comes back ... from behing in the
channel, building and pushing stuff thinking that I do not have to
resign in front bullshit. 

Money is a poison not a solution.

--
aurelien


From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 14:17:54 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 16:17:54 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87ziftocf1.fsf@hackers.camp> (aurelien@hackers.camp's message of
 "Thu, 06 Apr 2017 16:09:38 +0200")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>
 <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63E2D.2050701@ceata.org>
 <87a87tpthj.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E6414F.3080204@ceata.org>
 <874ly1psn3.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E6444C.7040001@ceata.org>
 <87ziftocf1.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <87pogpoc19.fsf@hackers.camp>

aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp> writes:

> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>
>> On 06.04.2017 16:33, aurelien wrote:
>>> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>>> 
>>>> On 06.04.2017 16:15, aurelien wrote:
>>>>> Do not forget I was against the money from the first and you insist to
>>>>> be.
>>>>
>>>> I remember you being the *only* one against money and you decided to
>>>> leave/left the community. You are still the only one against money here.
>>>> Your fellow hackers want to incorporate a company around Parabola.
>>> 
>>> I do not leave, I keep silent this is different.
>>
>> Then it must have been a different Aur?lien here:
>>
>> [Dev] I quit Parabola project and the FSF.
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002460.html
>>
>> Tiberiu
>>
> And after that I change my mind and comes back ... from behing in the
> channel, building and pushing stuff thinking that I do not have to
> resign in front bullshit. 
>
> Money is a poison not a solution.
>
> --
> aurelien

demonstration: https://git.parabola.nu/paraboley.git/

It was 5 months ago

I do not do a lot ... but regularly as the time I have let me bring my
stone to the community.

Certainly far from all I do from all that years, but, I do as I can from
the time I have between my familly and job.

--
aurelien


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 14:30:25 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 11:30:25 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packaging] Error when compiling in clean ARMv7h chroot
In-Reply-To: <1491486594.1085.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <82df3830-6036-d15c-7c46-813a64950da7@openmailbox.org>
 <1491486594.1085.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <9cbe5736-10d5-dac8-1b8e-b305a245a685@openmailbox.org>

if I compile it in an ARMv7h machine, would it work?
Also, is there other solution?

El 06/04/17 a las 10:49, Isaac David escribi?:
> 5 avril 2017 ? 18:39, Megver83:
>> hi devs, I'm having an issue when trying to compile dpkg with libretools
>> for armv7h (I'm using a x86 machine). I couldn't find anything useful to
>> solve this, I send you the log.
> 
> it's not particular to dpkg, this needs to be sorted out in QEMU
> 
> https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1234
> 


From aurelien at hackers.camp  Thu Apr  6 14:32:51 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 16:32:51 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87pogpoc19.fsf@hackers.camp> (aurelien@hackers.camp's message of
 "Thu, 06 Apr 2017 16:17:54 +0200")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <71fe5f7f-9f7d-023e-adab-9dcadd65ff96@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <8737dlraoo.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63BAA.9050905@ceata.org>
 <87efx5ptuh.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E63E2D.2050701@ceata.org>
 <87a87tpthj.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E6414F.3080204@ceata.org>
 <874ly1psn3.fsf@hackers.camp> <58E6444C.7040001@ceata.org>
 <87ziftocf1.fsf@hackers.camp> <87pogpoc19.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <87h921obcc.fsf@hackers.camp>

aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp> writes:

> aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp> writes:
>
>> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>>
>>> On 06.04.2017 16:33, aurelien wrote:
>>>> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 06.04.2017 16:15, aurelien wrote:
>>>>>> Do not forget I was against the money from the first and you insist to
>>>>>> be.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember you being the *only* one against money and you decided to
>>>>> leave/left the community. You are still the only one against money here.
>>>>> Your fellow hackers want to incorporate a company around Parabola.
>>>> 
>>>> I do not leave, I keep silent this is different.
>>>
>>> Then it must have been a different Aur?lien here:
>>>
>>> [Dev] I quit Parabola project and the FSF.
>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002460.html
>>>
>>> Tiberiu
>>>
>> And after that I change my mind and comes back ... from behing in the
>> channel, building and pushing stuff thinking that I do not have to
>> resign in front bullshit. 
>>
>> Money is a poison not a solution.
>>
>> --
>> aurelien
>
> demonstration: https://git.parabola.nu/paraboley.git/
>
> It was 5 months ago
>
> I do not do a lot ... but regularly as the time I have let me bring my
> stone to the community.
>
> Certainly far from all I do from all that years, but, I do as I can from
> the time I have between my familly and job.
>
> --
> aurelien

Sorry Tiberiu if I am a bit, ok a lot brutal. (I am not known to be
soft, but cool)

All of this does should have never be.

fauno have all our trust, he bring us far, and it would be nice for hime
and the interest of Parabola to clean his reputation and end that
situation that should have never be.

Kind regards

--
aurelien


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Apr  6 14:58:47 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 14:58:47 +0000
Subject: [Dev] [Packaging] Error when compiling in clean ARMv7h chroot
In-Reply-To: <9cbe5736-10d5-dac8-1b8e-b305a245a685@openmailbox.org>
References: <82df3830-6036-d15c-7c46-813a64950da7@openmailbox.org>
 <1491486594.1085.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <9cbe5736-10d5-dac8-1b8e-b305a245a685@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <9acd49fb-667e-0d30-bf7c-02b42b183045@riseup.net>

On 04/06/2017 02:30 PM, Megver83 wrote:
> if I compile it in an ARMv7h machine, would it work?
> Also, is there other solution?

For now, i solved it in my machine creating the repo folder and repo.db
blank file inside the ARMv7h chroot:

sudo librechroot -n $your_armv7h_chroot enter && mkdir /repo && touch
/repo/repo.db

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From nobody at parabola.nu  Thu Apr  6 15:09:44 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 15:09:44 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [winetricks-libre] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170406150944.1102.16430@proton.parabola.nu>

megver83 at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* winetricks-libre 1.0-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/winetricks-libre/


The user provided the following additional text:

Arch's winetricks is on version 20170327-1, and dependency kdebase-kdialog should be changed to kdialog



From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 15:31:48 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 12:31:48 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packaging] Error when compiling in clean ARMv7h chroot
In-Reply-To: <9acd49fb-667e-0d30-bf7c-02b42b183045@riseup.net>
References: <82df3830-6036-d15c-7c46-813a64950da7@openmailbox.org>
 <1491486594.1085.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <9cbe5736-10d5-dac8-1b8e-b305a245a685@openmailbox.org>
 <9acd49fb-667e-0d30-bf7c-02b42b183045@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <c2656f6e-9045-7091-e52c-4c676163e230@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

didn't worked for me :'(

El 06/04/17 a las 11:58, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> On 04/06/2017 02:30 PM, Megver83 wrote:
>> if I compile it in an ARMv7h machine, would it work? Also, is
>> there other solution?
> 
> For now, i solved it in my machine creating the repo folder and
> repo.db blank file inside the ARMv7h chroot:
> 
> sudo librechroot -n $your_armv7h_chroot enter && mkdir /repo &&
> touch /repo/repo.db
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
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=RaMa
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Apr  6 17:51:28 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 14:51:28 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

aurelien <aurelien at hackers.camp> writes:
> Speaking of people act, the first part of that mail comes from nowhere
> so that mean a private exchange around a public situation.
>
> The dark corner of the money are just like this:
>
> "Dark corners are basically fractal?no matter how much you illuminate,
> there?s always a smaller but darker one."   -? Brian Kernighan

here's the account of events:

* it was discussed here on dev list that we needed a build server so we
  can keep i686 alive.

* then Emulatorman sent tct an email cc'ed to me and g4jc with the
  expenses.

* tct said "let me study this and i'll make the arrangements when i get
  an ok from fauno"

* i studied the email Emulatorman sent and saw there were some things
  that were really expensive.  the server was acquired by g4jc already,
  and we were going to buy an ups and a chassis on US and ship
  everything to UY.  the ups costed ~180 usd and the chassis ~95, but
  shipping them would amount to ~400 usd, that to me was a lot of money.

* so we discussed a little on what to do and decided to buy the ups
  locally which was ~160 usd and maybe not buying the chassis but only
  the power unit, since the motherboard is not atx but some other
  standard not readily found in uruguay.  g4jc said he'd buy the chassis
  out of pocket anyway.

* tct offered a ~400 usd machine and colocation on a datacenter he
  trusted in romania.  we told him the server was already bought by
  g4jc.

* then Emulatorman said a friend of him was willing to pay directly for
  the shipping cost which was dropped to ~200 usd since we weren't going
  to buy the ups or the chassis, and this somehow involved money from
  his pocket too, but i told him i didn't like for him to use his money
  on this.  he said he wanted to and i was not convinced anyway.

* then he told me g4jc needed 100 usd to deliver the things to his
  address in miamibox, a pobox that receives on miami and delivers to
  uruguay we used in the past under Emulatorman's or a family name, but
  that g4jc wanted the money in btc because he would have tax troubles
  otherwise.

* tct reminded us the btc are converted to ron and i asked if they could
  buy btc back, which he said they could on a local exchange.  they have
  to convert everything to ron because of fiscal obligations, so we
  never had 3000 usd as some said.  the value of btc was lower back
  then, around 300 usd each and now it's triple, but they could be 3
  cents as well, given btc unstability.

* g4jc said ceata could also pay for the delivery directly in usd so he
  would only have to print the ups stamp, so there wouldn't be a need to
  send him money or buy btc, and the invoice would be to ceata, which
  always makes things easier for them.

* nothing else happens

* then i'm invited to a tox channel where i read some people basically
  think ceata and tct are keeping the money for themselves and their
  task is to recover it, given their "unwillingness" to make expenses on
  our behalf, which i found ridiculous.  i mention it looks like a coup,
  since it's a secret meeting to form a consensus out of reach from the
  whole community.  i sustain this even if it offended them.

* this meeting is mixed with some good ideas on how to be autonomous and
  earn wages for the work put on, which i applaud, though they were
  mixed with flak towards ceata that is completely unfair.

* i confront them about this and they mention they want to make parabola
  an entity on a tax haven, some money Emulatorman had to spend from
  pocket for fisl and a veiled accusation of stealing parabola funds to
  myself.

* meanwhile, tct confirms he can buy the ups stamp directly so g4jc can
  just deliver the computer and g4jc agrees.  as of today, tct was still
  waiting for an estimate on weight and size to buy the stamp.

* i checked the gnucash file and it says Emulatorman was reimbursed for
  taxis, food and ac power adapter + 220v converter over a paypal
  transfer of ~200 usd, so the money he said he had to spend from pocket
  because he couldn't get invoices was returned to him from parabola
  funds.  you can look it up under assets > paypal account usd or
  anything that's marked [FISL17] on the gnu cash file attached.

* i sent an earlier version of this email for Emulatorman and others to
  confirm but instead he/they prefered to start this thread.


all of this made me lose sleep over a week, not knowing what kind of
mess i would find every morning, and ultimately made me lose trust on
the people involved.  i believe emulatorman and others' impatience,
impulsiveness and lack of transparency put us in this position, where
ceata rightfully doesn't want to have anything else to do with parabola
and we have to find a new fiscal sponsorship in 60 days.  which i find
doubtful.

i'm not sure about what is my responsibility as delegate towards ceata
in this situation, but i'm sure i don't want to be a front for these
people anymore.  maybe i should've published the gnu cash files earlier,
or move the discussion about the expenses back to this list and just
involve tct privately when we reached an agreement, or explained better
what i meant by a coup, or bring this mess back here when it was just
brewing.

i don't want to burden anyone with this mess either, so i'll resign when
and if the new fiscal sponsorship is found, unless the community asks me
otherwise.  iirc i made clear my or any delegation can and needs to be
revoked anytime to keep the power on the community and not on individual
persons, appointed or self-appointed.  adhocracy has a limit set on what
the community wants to do and it certainly doesn't mean and ends at
self-entitlement.

i feel really sad about this, but some things have to be said.  i also
don't think ceata or tct are the ones who have to give explanations to
the community (and "our anonymous donors").

i won't make any suggestions as to which i think are the motivations
here, but i've seen it happen before in several other communities and it
doesn't end nice.  just pay attention to where the +1s come from.


-- 
}(:=
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From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Thu Apr  6 19:23:02 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 20:23:02 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Working out a plan of action.
Message-ID: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>

 From reading, as a donor, I think some /public/ discussions are to be 
had on the following.

1) Whether the bits and pieces for the build server are purchased now, 
and in the right place.
		1.1) If not, gc4j could kindly give a quote on the weight and size of 
the computer.
		1.2) If not, emulatorman could kindly explain the FISL17 payments from 
their perspective.

2) Whether the /current/ entity, parabola, should remain not-for-profit.

3) A proper consensus on whether people should get paid to work on parabola.
	3.1) If so, how to work out who gets paid what.

4) Which future entity will manage the funds, and how they will be managed.

5) And anything else?

Josh


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 19:41:50 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:41:50 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Working out a plan of action.
In-Reply-To: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>
References: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57a6034a-d29a-3b9d-ef04-88e76f6fb72c@openmailbox.org>

El 06/04/17 a las 16:23, Josh Branning escribi?:
> From reading, as a donor, I think some /public/ discussions are to be
> had on the following.
> 
> 1) Whether the bits and pieces for the build server are purchased now,
> and in the right place.
>         1.1) If not, gc4j could kindly give a quote on the weight and
> size of the computer.
>         1.2) If not, emulatorman could kindly explain the FISL17
> payments from their perspective.
> 
> 2) Whether the /current/ entity, parabola, should remain not-for-profit.

That's for sure, Parabola GNU/Linux-libre will always remain non-profit

> 3) A proper consensus on whether people should get paid to work on
> parabola.
>     3.1) If so, how to work out who gets paid what.

We were planning to create a webstore to sell Parabola stuff (t-shirts,
hats, mousepads, etc), accessories (stickers, tatoos, keychains, etc.)
and services (libreboot + Parabola installation, Pentesting, etc.)
worldwide, so for that we were thinking about an offshore (nothing
definitive yet) to create a company (e.g. Parabola S.A.), *BUT* that
doesn't mean that then Parabola would be about money (talking about
point 2), we just want a more viable way to get funds for our hackers to
work full time for Parabola, so that they can work with and for freedom
independently.

> 4) Which future entity will manage the funds, and how they will be managed.
> 
> 5) And anything else?

Not yet, :P
but define proposed topics.

> Josh
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 19:42:03 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 16:42:03 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Working out a plan of action.
In-Reply-To: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>
References: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <549f4b89-d6f5-91dd-2061-e64381d4f4fe@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

El 06/04/17 a las 16:23, Josh Branning escribi?:
> From reading, as a donor, I think some /public/ discussions are to
> be had on the following.
> 
> 1) Whether the bits and pieces for the build server are purchased
> now, and in the right place. 1.1) If not, gc4j could kindly give a
> quote on the weight and size of the computer. 1.2) If not,
> emulatorman could kindly explain the FISL17 payments from their
> perspective.
> 
> 2) Whether the /current/ entity, parabola, should remain
> not-for-profit.

That's for sure, Parabola GNU/Linux-libre will always remain non-profit

> 3) A proper consensus on whether people should get paid to work on 
> parabola. 3.1) If so, how to work out who gets paid what.

We were planning to create a webstore to sell Parabola stuff
(t-shirts, hats, mousepads, etc), accessories (stickers, tatoos,
keychains, etc.) and services (libreboot + Parabola installation,
Pentesting, etc.) worldwide, so for that we were thinking about an
offshore (nothing definitive yet) to create a company (e.g. Parabola
S.A.), *BUT* that doesn't mean that then Parabola would be about money
(talking about point 2), we just want a more viable way to get funds
for our hackers to work full time for Parabola, so that they can work
with and for freedom independently.

> 4) Which future entity will manage the funds, and how they will be
> managed.
> 
> 5) And anything else?

Not yet, :P
but define proposed topics.

> Josh _______________________________________________ Dev mailing
> list Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Thu Apr  6 21:54:38 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 16:54:38 -0500
Subject: [Dev] [Packaging] Error when compiling in clean ARMv7h chroot
In-Reply-To: <9cbe5736-10d5-dac8-1b8e-b305a245a685@openmailbox.org>
References: <82df3830-6036-d15c-7c46-813a64950da7@openmailbox.org>
 <1491486594.1085.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <9cbe5736-10d5-dac8-1b8e-b305a245a685@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1491515678.950.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>


Le jeu. 6 avril 2017 ? 9:30, Megver83 a ?crit :
> if I compile it in an ARMv7h machine, would it work?

it should since the bug comes from QEMU.

what Emulatorman suggests would allow you to create a new
chroot so that you can build other packages, but given that
the error is also triggered while building dagpkg you are out
of luck building it with current QEMU, except maybe by making
some changes.

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943
Tox: 
0C730E0156E96E6193A1445D413557FF5F277BA969A4EA20AC9352889D3B390E77651E816F0C



From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 22:47:02 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 22:47:02 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Working out a plan of action.
In-Reply-To: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>
References: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a926e2f7-f7a6-0415-d6f6-fe5467425e46@openmailbox.org>

On 04/06/2017 07:23 PM, Josh Branning wrote:
> From reading, as a donor, I think some /public/ discussions are to be
> had on the following.
>
> 1) Whether the bits and pieces for the build server are purchased now,
> and in the right place.
>         1.1) If not, gc4j could kindly give a quote on the weight and
> size of the computer.

I'm putting all the parts together to complete the build server with my
own personal money. Since Arch is pulling support for i686 in November
of this year, I wanted to have the thing running and ready to go before
then.

Currently, what I have:
* KFSN4-DRE - Motherboard (Libreboot compatible, but not re-flashed yet,
would feel more comfortable for it to be done on delivery anyway)
* 2 CPU's AMD Opteron 221
* 32GB RAM
* 1TB Western Digital HDD
* SATA cable
* 2 Dynatron Fan + Heat sinks and thermal paste

There was some discussion about Ceata helping pay for Chasis/UPS/PSU/and
RAM. After seeing all the unnecessary drama and obstruction over the use
of expenses, and the unlikeness of being able to get the server done in
any reasonable amount time, I went ahead and got the Chasis, PSU, and
RAM myself.

That said...

Currently en route to me:
* PSU 500W - EVGA 100-W1-0500-KR
* Phanteks Enthoo Pro Series PH-ES614P_BG Chasis

My estimate (per the specs found here:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811854018) puts
the size of the box around
235 mm x 535 mm x 550 mm (W x H x D)
13.8Kg (for chasis). I estimate at least 5Kg for packing materials and
all the parts installed in the chasis. Cannot confirm this until it has
actually installed.

It is my understanding Ceata was (is?) still waiting on this estimate in
order to see if they could help with UPS shipment costs to Emulatorman's
post office box. Since it is highly unlikely they can "declare" a
package shipped inside the United States from Romania, I already started
saving up for paying the postage myself.
If they would like to help, it is of course appreciated, but it's much
less stressful for me to know that the product can be shipped and arrive
soon without unnecessary fanfare.

>         1.2) If not, emulatorman could kindly explain the FISL17
> payments from their perspective.
>
> 2) Whether the /current/ entity, parabola, should remain not-for-profit.
>
> 3) A proper consensus on whether people should get paid to work on
> parabola.
>     3.1) If so, how to work out who gets paid what.

I pretty much agree with aurelien in that centralized money in any
project causes too many problems and frustrations in the long run.

My idea is that any developer wishing to pursue that could run their own
small business in a "federated" way.
e.g. each developer has his/her own personal bank account and deals with
their own state or national tax laws.
In most countries, having a bitcoin wallet is allowed as well.

Developers could then offer services such as real-time tech support,
pre-installed computers, etc. or just accept donations to their own
personal accounts.
This could be mentioned on the Hackers page on our wiki or similar.

As all of our infrastructure is already federated and donated by
generous volunteers there is no longer a need to hoard money in a
general fund.
If someone would like to help pay for hardware, all that is needed is to
give a donation to the specific developer in need.

Another interesting option that we already have is LiberaPay, e.g. the
entire project gets money in regular payment intervals that is stored by
LiberaPay and then each person can get a regular percentage of the
incoming funds. The idea seems pretty neat, but it still suffers from
centralization and if it were to take off there could be a dispute over
who gets what. It is why centralization sucks.

Since several developers, including myself, have a day job - I don't
have to depend on Parabola income to survive, and right now I'm not
interested in receiving anything.
However, I also realize that we have several full-time developers out of
work that could use our assistance. It would also be nice if they could
get fully compensated to attend events such as LibrePlanet or FISL.

>
> 4) Which future entity will manage the funds, and how they will be
> managed.
>
> 5) And anything else?
>
> Josh
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>



From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 23:47:44 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 23:47:44 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <5db39812-bc55-b83f-2b57-01a8027db740@openmailbox.org>

On 04/06/2017 05:51 PM, fauno wrote:
> all of this made me lose sleep over a week, not knowing what kind of
> mess i would find every morning, and ultimately made me lose trust on
> the people involved.  i believe emulatorman and others' impatience,
> impulsiveness and lack of transparency put us in this position, where
> ceata rightfully doesn't want to have anything else to do with parabola
> and we have to find a new fiscal sponsorship in 60 days.  which i find
> doubtful.
>

For whatever it's worth, I don't think you or the other Parabola team
members were at fault here.
As someone who has tried to provide donated infrastructure directly
developers multiple times, every time even a small amount of money was
asked to be used for shipping or parts, we would spend weeks just going
back and forth about how the funds "had to be declared", and if someone
tried to by something locally in cash "oh no, that isn't declared so we
can't reimburse anyone anything".  Essentially, the laws of Romania, and
Ceata by extension, were making it very difficult. It's not their fault
that they reside in that country, but it is what it is.

I would be happy to see the money reach developers directly, it never
really has. Since you were working as delegate and developer, you should
be able to claim funds too.
Wouldn't it be useful if the remaining funds which are to expire went
directly to the core team such as yourself, emulatorman, ovruni, and
others who have been here the longest? We could even reimburse lukeshu
for his excellent work on libretools and spending time at LibrePlanet.

Unfortunately, most any of those ideas couldn't be "declared" which
leads me to wonder if the money ever really existed at all - other than
to be a stressful headache for yourself and everyone involved in the
project.


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr  6 23:54:39 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 20:54:39 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packaging] Error when compiling in clean ARMv7h chroot
In-Reply-To: <1491515678.950.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <82df3830-6036-d15c-7c46-813a64950da7@openmailbox.org>
 <1491486594.1085.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <9cbe5736-10d5-dac8-1b8e-b305a245a685@openmailbox.org>
 <1491515678.950.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <67a998a0-76ff-6807-14a9-2ec0f8aba91b@openmailbox.org>

so then I should install Parabola with Systemd in a SD Card, because
I've Parabola with OpenRC in my BPi :P

Thanks anyway, I'll use the BPi whenever I've problems when packaging
for ARM

El 06/04/17 a las 18:54, Isaac David escribi?:
> 
> Le jeu. 6 avril 2017 ? 9:30, Megver83 a ?crit :
>> if I compile it in an ARMv7h machine, would it work?
> 
> it should since the bug comes from QEMU.
> 
> what Emulatorman suggests would allow you to create a new
> chroot so that you can build other packages, but given that
> the error is also triggered while building dagpkg you are out
> of luck building it with current QEMU, except maybe by making
> some changes.
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox:
EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA3791
GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr  7 00:36:43 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 01:36:43 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Working out a plan of action.
In-Reply-To: <a926e2f7-f7a6-0415-d6f6-fe5467425e46@openmailbox.org>
References: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>
 <a926e2f7-f7a6-0415-d6f6-fe5467425e46@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58E6DF1B.4090903@gmail.com>

> I pretty much agree with aurelien in that centralized money in any
> project causes too many problems and frustrations in the long run.
>
> My idea is that any developer wishing to pursue that could run their own
> small business in a "federated" way.
> e.g. each developer has his/her own personal bank account and deals with
> their own state or national tax laws.
> In most countries, having a bitcoin wallet is allowed as well.
>
> Developers could then offer services such as real-time tech support,
> pre-installed computers, etc. or just accept donations to their own
> personal accounts.
> This could be mentioned on the Hackers page on our wiki or similar.
>
> As all of our infrastructure is already federated and donated by
> generous volunteers there is no longer a need to hoard money in a
> general fund.
> If someone would like to help pay for hardware, all that is needed is to
> give a donation to the specific developer in need.

That sounds reasonable.

>
> Another interesting option that we already have is LiberaPay, e.g. the
> entire project gets money in regular payment intervals that is stored by
> LiberaPay and then each person can get a regular percentage of the
> incoming funds. The idea seems pretty neat, but it still suffers from
> centralization and if it were to take off there could be a dispute over
> who gets what. It is why centralization sucks.

I agree. I foresee the who gets what as a major problem using librepay, 
issues arising about under what criteria can someone join the group, how 
often they contribute, how much they have to contribute etc etc.

_______________________________________________________________________

One other option would be for bounties for fixing issues on the issue 
tracker, but there might be problems with that too.

As what to do with the existing funds (once they are transferred from 
ceata to some-place else), I'm sure the people of parabola could somehow 
work by consensus as to how they are spent, even if that consensus is 
just among the hackers. It would then probably be worth thinking long 
and hard about whether parabola should continue taking new funds in that 
way (because of the obvious problems that have arisen).

Josh


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr  7 01:05:42 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 22:05:42 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <5db39812-bc55-b83f-2b57-01a8027db740@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5db39812-bc55-b83f-2b57-01a8027db740@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87r315jac9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> writes:

> Unfortunately, most any of those ideas couldn't be "declared" which
> leads me to wonder if the money ever really existed at all - other
> than to be a stressful headache for yourself and everyone involved in
> the project.

please tell me when we couldn't make a payment because of romanian laws
or personal payments couldn't be reimbursed.  what stresses me is your
concern trolling.

-- 
.o?)
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From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr  7 02:42:08 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 02:42:08 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87r315jac9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5db39812-bc55-b83f-2b57-01a8027db740@openmailbox.org>
 <87r315jac9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <5f8228c3-9096-9200-ff29-0add16852cdd@openmailbox.org>

On 04/07/2017 01:05 AM, fauno wrote:
> Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> writes:
>
>> Unfortunately, most any of those ideas couldn't be "declared" which
>> leads me to wonder if the money ever really existed at all - other
>> than to be a stressful headache for yourself and everyone involved in
>> the project.
> please tell me when we couldn't make a payment because of romanian laws
> or personal payments couldn't be reimbursed.  what stresses me is your
> concern trolling.
>

Certainly.

June 15th 2016: We already designed the stickers for FISL, you and Ceata
agreed to pay for them after a somewhat lengthy debate about how
expensive and useless they are.
I get the company to make the custom stickers and go the extra mile of
sending a custom invoice. The sticker company is ready to ship expedited
to us just in time for the event. During this internal conversation, we
learned quite a bit.

1) Ceata can't use the invoice sent by the sticker company through
PayPal, goes off on their own trying to make stickers in Romania.
Quote Ceata: "Oh, sorry. _I didn't know Romania isn't a billing option
in PayPal_."
"IMO, _these high-quality stickers are too expensive_ for the small
funds Parabola has for the moment. I can try to get stickers of close
quality at much less by _making them in Romania and billing Ceata
wouldn't be a problem here._"

2) No communication for awhile, the sticker company keeps asking me for
payment since they were going to put them into production to meet our
deadline. I pay them with my own money.

- June 16, 2016: Somehow Ceata ends up getting correct 'declarative
receipt' from the sticker company saying it was paid in full. I've no
idea how how they managed to finally get the proper invoice outside of
Paypal, but I was not kept in the loop on this venture and it was
already too late.

Quote Ceata: "It reads "paid in full", so I suppose Luke has made the
payment. If this
is the case, Ceata can refund Luke provided he sends me the proof of
payment (forwards the PayPal receipt)."

- Obviously, the invoice, which I already paid is invoiced to my name
now - so I tell you and Ceata both to forget it.

3) Ceata claims bitcoins are not illegal in Romania, but receiving and
spending is not allowed because of "transparency" and tax concerns.
Quote Ceata: "Receiving donations in Bitcoins and converting them in
national currency
for later payments is not prohibited in Romania. However, _receiving and__
__spending Bitcoins is not allowed, because it's not transparent in the__
__eyes of the authorities_ and _we can be suspected of tax avoidance_."

4) Ceata doesn't have any option of using a pre-paid credit card or
debit card for miscellaneous purchases.
Quote Ceata: "No, we can't. _Because organizations can't request gift
cards from banks_
(_at least not in Romania_), only individuals can request such cards."

5) Ceata says they are unable to pay anything in advanced for FISL,
requesting invoices and receipts from each event after FISL occurs.
Quote Ceata: "I don't understand the problem here. Andr? doesn't have
the funds to pay in advance for the travel to and food at FISL? If this
is the case, _I'm sure family or friends can help him._ When presented
with any or all receipts, Ceata will refund him."
..."It's not for a lack of trust, but because it's an accounting
nightmare to record the transactions involved and _it raises suspicion
in the eyes of the authorities._"

The correspondence between June 15 to July 6th proves the situation of
actually utilizing donors money is not only ridiculously complex, it
was/is unsustainable.
If you wish drag this trivial debate on and publish them all in full as
ParabolaLeaks, please redact names/addresses.

Needless to say, the same thing happened, again, with the chasis, power
supply, and RAM.
With the /small/ possibility that they would be able to pay for a
shipping label. Based on previous experience, I believe there is a
strong chance of being unable to fulfil on that as well.

There was also the internal discussion of not having a chasis at all:
Quote fauno: "to me, the chassis is optional.  you can have the
motherboard bare or on
a recycled chassis or on a box, and buy a new power supply and maybe an
extra one just in case."

I really would rather our primary build server doesn't have to look like
this: https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1122857

So really, if this "general fund" cannot be used by anything we have
proposed, what is it used for? Why do you vehemently defend it?


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From aurelien at hackers.camp  Fri Apr  7 08:25:02 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 10:25:02 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <5f8228c3-9096-9200-ff29-0add16852cdd@openmailbox.org> (Luke's
 message of "Fri, 7 Apr 2017 02:42:08 +0000")
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5db39812-bc55-b83f-2b57-01a8027db740@openmailbox.org>
 <87r315jac9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5f8228c3-9096-9200-ff29-0add16852cdd@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87d1cooc9t.fsf@hackers.camp>

So,

There is secret meeting and then some of you people accuse fauno.

The point is that if money represent trouble by trouble it generate,
secret meeting are more ofen the root of the trouble.

>From my point of view, the need of material and by the way the cost it
represent should be discuss in the mailling list, and as one of the team
member I do not appreciate that you discuss about that secretly.

Because, no, I would not give my point of view about the money, but the
technical interest is my gazoline.

To thus who make that secret I blame you.

To thus who blame fauno, SHAME ON YOU!

Shame on you because you make feel sad someone who give part of his life
on this project and blame him about money trouble that no one have
really the hands on.

I do not blame Ceata by that way but the economical world that make the
things as they are and all of you because you do not understand the
biggest lesson of Free Software which is we are the people, we are unit.

I invite all of you to present a correct solution in front the need of
the servers, a professionnal presentation as excuse to fauno and all
other Dev that you have flawed by you secret society.

I also invite you to share your project with new incomers to the
community, as I have done with Emulatorman in time I share with him the
kernel building function.

No one have to get out, but all of us have to get lesson from that
situation.

I also invite you and I do not count me in that to have a look to
mutuellism economical solution.

Last, close that topic and start one as mutuellism from knowledge to
donation.


Kind regards.


--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES


From andreas at grapentin.org  Fri Apr  7 08:31:46 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 10:31:46 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87d1cooc9t.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5db39812-bc55-b83f-2b57-01a8027db740@openmailbox.org>
 <87r315jac9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5f8228c3-9096-9200-ff29-0add16852cdd@openmailbox.org>
 <87d1cooc9t.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <20170407083146.GA2509@parabola-pocket>


Hello,

I have been following this discussion for a while now, and, frankly, I
fail to see what the fuss is about.

When I donate to a non-profit organisation, I consider that money gone.
I trust that the people in charge do the right things with it and bring
the project forward. Obviously, this has happened here, as the money was
used to purchase much needed hardware, and not beer and pizza (which
would also have been totally fine).

I fail to see what any anonymous donor could be concerned about, given
the nature of all the transactions that took place.

Best,
Andreas

On Fri, Apr 07, 2017 at 10:25:02AM +0200, aurelien wrote:
> So,
> 
> There is secret meeting and then some of you people accuse fauno.
> 
> The point is that if money represent trouble by trouble it generate,
> secret meeting are more ofen the root of the trouble.
> 
> From my point of view, the need of material and by the way the cost it
> represent should be discuss in the mailling list, and as one of the team
> member I do not appreciate that you discuss about that secretly.
> 
> Because, no, I would not give my point of view about the money, but the
> technical interest is my gazoline.
> 
> To thus who make that secret I blame you.
> 
> To thus who blame fauno, SHAME ON YOU!
> 
> Shame on you because you make feel sad someone who give part of his life
> on this project and blame him about money trouble that no one have
> really the hands on.
> 
> I do not blame Ceata by that way but the economical world that make the
> things as they are and all of you because you do not understand the
> biggest lesson of Free Software which is we are the people, we are unit.
> 
> I invite all of you to present a correct solution in front the need of
> the servers, a professionnal presentation as excuse to fauno and all
> other Dev that you have flawed by you secret society.
> 
> I also invite you to share your project with new incomers to the
> community, as I have done with Emulatorman in time I share with him the
> kernel building function.
> 
> No one have to get out, but all of us have to get lesson from that
> situation.
> 
> I also invite you and I do not count me in that to have a look to
> mutuellism economical solution.
> 
> Last, close that topic and start one as mutuellism from knowledge to
> donation.
> 
> 
> Kind regards.
> 
> 
> --
> Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Fri Apr  7 09:58:16 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 11:58:16 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Working out a plan of action.
In-Reply-To: <a926e2f7-f7a6-0415-d6f6-fe5467425e46@openmailbox.org>
References: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>
 <a926e2f7-f7a6-0415-d6f6-fe5467425e46@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170407095816.GA844@athena>

On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 10:47:02PM +0000, Luke wrote:
> I pretty much agree with aurelien in that centralized money in any
> project causes too many problems and frustrations in the long run.
> 
> My idea is that any developer wishing to pursue that could run their own
> small business in a "federated" way.
> e.g. each developer has his/her own personal bank account and deals with
> their own state or national tax laws.
> In most countries, having a bitcoin wallet is allowed as well.
> 
> Developers could then offer services such as real-time tech support,
> pre-installed computers, etc. or just accept donations to their own
> personal accounts.
> This could be mentioned on the Hackers page on our wiki or similar.
> 
> As all of our infrastructure is already federated and donated by
> generous volunteers there is no longer a need to hoard money in a
> general fund.
> If someone would like to help pay for hardware, all that is needed is to
> give a donation to the specific developer in need.
> 
> Another interesting option that we already have is LiberaPay, e.g. the
> entire project gets money in regular payment intervals that is stored by
> LiberaPay and then each person can get a regular percentage of the
> incoming funds. The idea seems pretty neat, but it still suffers from
> centralization and if it were to take off there could be a dispute over
> who gets what. It is why centralization sucks.
> 
> Since several developers, including myself, have a day job - I don't
> have to depend on Parabola income to survive, and right now I'm not
> interested in receiving anything.
> However, I also realize that we have several full-time developers out of
> work that could use our assistance. It would also be nice if they could
> get fully compensated to attend events such as LibrePlanet or FISL.

It seems to me that the issue of payment of developers would not be
something unique to the Parabola project, but that many other projects
may have gone through something similar. It may be wise to ask in other
similar communities what they have done. If someone else has more
experience then why fail as many times as they have? I am unfamiliar
with which communities may have had to go through this, perhaps the
Trisquel community.

There is another issue as well, which is that the federated model that
you are proposing isn't exactly the most effective (namely being that
resources are not allocated efficiently). Let me elaborate:

First, people in our community tend to love decentralized models, heck,
even I love them. However decentralized models also have their
weaknesses and centralized their strengths. They are simply tools for
the right job, neither is a universal solution.

In this particular circumstance the decentralized model (at least what I
can understand from what you have said) would imply that donors and
those who purchase accessories and gear and whatnot, would be the ones
deciding what money goes where. This is a highly ineffective economic
model, as those who are purchasing typically do not spend based on what
is best in the long-run or for the community (or even which Parabola
hacker actually needs the income) but rather based on what they can
afford (I will be much more likely to buy a Parabola t-shirt than I
would a Parabola laptop) and what they want.

Personally I would suggest looking into cooperative business models, for
although Parabola is not a business (and I personally like it that way),
it is handling money and I'd say that handling it collectively and
distributing it effectively is quite important. I'd argue that the
mentality should be that of from each according to their ability, to
each according to their needs (each referring to a variety of factors,
not only the needs of the individual, but the need that the project has
for the work they do, the importance of it).

A nice reminder that "It doesn't matter whether the cat is white or
black, as long as it catches mice".

-- 
Nicol?s A. Ortega (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From how at gnu.org  Fri Apr  7 10:17:42 2017
From: how at gnu.org (hellekin)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 12:17:42 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <20170407083146.GA2509@parabola-pocket>
References: <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5db39812-bc55-b83f-2b57-01a8027db740@openmailbox.org>
 <87r315jac9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5f8228c3-9096-9200-ff29-0add16852cdd@openmailbox.org>
 <87d1cooc9t.fsf@hackers.camp> <20170407083146.GA2509@parabola-pocket>
Message-ID: <ea200079-0b18-9c2f-2d0b-484b723d2604@gnu.org>

On 04/07/2017 10:31 AM, Andreas Grapentin wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have been following this discussion for a while now, and, frankly, I
> fail to see what the fuss is about.
> 

Same here.  If someone could summarize the discussion to grasp what has
been going on in simple terms and a short text, that would be useful.

>From what I understood, you have not coordinated spending in relation
with income, and had some difficulties communicating on the economic and
fiscal conditions.

Please insert "lessons learned" in the summary, and please, Aur?lien,
don't blame money, we all know your position, which is what it is, but I
suspect you're paid in money for your splendid free software promoter
job, which is as needed as it is rare.

I'm very much interested in how parabola is going to handle the fact
that in less than two months, the remaining few hundred EURO of
donations received so far will end up as a donation to the FSF.

Regards,

==
hk



From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr  7 12:10:12 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 09:10:12 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Working out a plan of action.
In-Reply-To: <20170407095816.GA844@athena>
References: <58E69596.7000700@gmail.com>
 <a926e2f7-f7a6-0415-d6f6-fe5467425e46@openmailbox.org>
 <20170407095816.GA844@athena>
Message-ID: <87o9w8ju57.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

"Nicol?s A. Ortega" <deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net> writes:
> There is another issue as well, which is that the federated model that
> you are proposing isn't exactly the most effective (namely being that
> resources are not allocated efficiently). Let me elaborate:

i agree!  it would also meant that donors would have to know the
developers, and hackers would have to compete for donors, and well known
hackers will always get more donors (because they're better at making
themselves known, are more charismatic, have more time to do it, etc.)

-- 
:>
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From nobody at parabola.nu  Fri Apr  7 12:13:28 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 12:13:28 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [apparmor] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170407121328.1103.79079@proton.parabola.nu>

megver83 at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* apparmor 2.10-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/apparmor/
* apparmor 2.10-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/apparmor/
* apparmor-libapparmor 2.10-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/apparmor-libapparmor/
* apparmor-libapparmor 2.10-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/apparmor-libapparmor/
* apparmor-pam 2.10-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/apparmor-pam/
* apparmor-pam 2.10-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/apparmor-pam/
* apparmor-parser 2.10-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/apparmor-parser/
* apparmor-parser 2.10-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/apparmor-parser/
* apparmor-profiles 2.10-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/apparmor-profiles/
* apparmor-profiles 2.10-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/apparmor-profiles/
* apparmor-utils 2.10-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/apparmor-utils/
* apparmor-utils 2.10-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/apparmor-utils/
* apparmor-vim 2.10-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/apparmor-vim/
* apparmor-vim 2.10-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/apparmor-vim/


The user provided the following additional text:

New version 2.11.0 is available



From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr  7 12:24:30 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 09:24:30 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <ea200079-0b18-9c2f-2d0b-484b723d2604@gnu.org>
References: <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5db39812-bc55-b83f-2b57-01a8027db740@openmailbox.org>
 <87r315jac9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5f8228c3-9096-9200-ff29-0add16852cdd@openmailbox.org>
 <87d1cooc9t.fsf@hackers.camp> <20170407083146.GA2509@parabola-pocket>
 <ea200079-0b18-9c2f-2d0b-484b723d2604@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <87lgrcjthd.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

hellekin <how at gnu.org> writes:

> On 04/07/2017 10:31 AM, Andreas Grapentin wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I have been following this discussion for a while now, and, frankly, I
>> fail to see what the fuss is about.
>> 
>
> Same here.  If someone could summarize the discussion to grasp what
> has been going on in simple terms and a short text, that would be
> useful.

this is my tl;dr: a bunch of parabola hackers unilaterally forced us
into this situation, making several unsubstantiated claims they can't
confirm and sistematically making purchases before knowing how we could
pay for them.  now they're protecting themselves behind a concern troll.

for details see my previous email.

-- 
https://endefensadelsl.org/
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From bit4bit at riseup.net  Fri Apr  7 20:43:28 2017
From: bit4bit at riseup.net (Jovany Leandro G.C)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 15:43:28 -0500
Subject: [Dev] PATCH: Mate build
Message-ID: <c306fde7b279eecaa89efc729b755abd@riseup.net>

hi community, i very happy using your distribution 100% libre,

my name is Jovany Leandro G.C i from Colombia - Medellin, a software 
libre developer,
how can i help, how can i start?


i build a custom iso, but not work correctly 
parabolaiso.git:/mate/config/build.sh,
i fix it, i send this patch if can help with something.

thanks for your great work

-- 
Jovany Leandro G.C
Desarrollador Software Libre
Cel: 3165387562
Github: https://github.com/bit4bit
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From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Fri Apr  7 21:13:27 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 16:13:27 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>

Le jeu. 6 avril 2017 ? 12:51, fauno a ?crit :
> then i'm invited to a tox channel where i read some people basically
> think ceata and tct are keeping the money for themselves and their
> task is to recover it, given their "unwillingness" to make expenses on
> our behalf, which i found ridiculous. i mention it looks like a coup,
> since it's a secret meeting to form a consensus out of reach from the
> whole community.

did anyone mention FUD? Beware the sarcasm in my reply...

so they wanted to form a consensus that wasn't a real consensus,
how would that even work fauno?

on what universe does a coup consist of organizing around making
Parabola development more lively and sustainable for more developers,
then writing a pad whereby interested hackers brainstorm their ideas
to be posted for public opinion? perhaps Mr. Adhocracy wanted us to
ask him for his blessing before we got into a pad. also, this wouldn't
have been the first time things are put together in "private" group
conversations and collaboration pads before they reach the mailing
lists, but whatever, welcome to coup #437 everybody!

others have told you already how much of a stretch this is, but
apparently your mind is made up. you would rather double-down on your
first impressions (which by the way you never bothered to confirm with
us on the channels you were invited to afaict... let's talk about
silence and one-sided conclusions there!). just as obscure is
Tiberiu's apologetic reaction to Emulatorman's very polite OP. tl;dr
version:

> Emulatorman: hey Tiberiu!, we have some doubts about the accounting 
> file
> Tiberiu: I know you are dissatisfied, Ceata says goodbye.

...gee, I wonder who could have maligned him in the dark to pull out
before wider discussion took place. in any case, the contents of our
devilish conspiracy were always meant to reach the lists, so observers
deserve better than listening to your *recollection of events*. here's
the thing:

https://pad.riseup.net/p/TYGrGEaO6Twt/timeslider

yes, some hackers expressed deep dissatisfaction with the donations
system, citing how slow and difficult it is to deal with, and because
it practically prevents those who would like to make a buck out of
Parabola development from ever seeing a donor. hopefully this won't be
a problem anymore.

> i sustain this even if it offended them.

with all respect, as someone who was barely involved in this affair, I
deride your reaction not as offensive but paranoic.

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943




From hellekin at gnu.org  Fri Apr  7 21:37:22 2017
From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 23:37:22 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>

I had a conversation with fauno.  I'm very disappointed at how things
were (mis)handled and I am quite upset.  How comes adhocracy and
consensus went to shit when it came to handling money?  Blaming Ceata
for that when they only performed as they said they would brought
Tiberiu to cancel your fiscal sponsorship, bravo, now you have to find
another one within 2 months (good luck with that).  I only hope the
Parabola community can survive your selfish brat behavior.

==
hk


From srw at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr  7 21:48:53 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar Wangberg)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 23:48:53 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <1491601733.1823.0.camel@openmailbox.org>

fr., 07.04.2017 kl. 16.13 -0500, skrev Isaac David:
> Le jeu. 6 avril 2017 ? 12:51, fauno a ?crit :
> > then i'm invited to a tox channel where i read some people
> > basically
> > think ceata and tct are keeping the money for themselves and their
> > task is to recover it, given their "unwillingness" to make expenses
> > on
> > our behalf, which i found ridiculous. i mention it looks like a
> > coup,
> > since it's a secret meeting to form a consensus out of reach from
> > the
> > whole community.
> 
> did anyone mention FUD? Beware the sarcasm in my reply...
> 
> so they wanted to form a consensus that wasn't a real consensus,
> how would that even work fauno?
> 
> on what universe does a coup consist of organizing around making
> Parabola development more lively and sustainable for more developers,
> then writing a pad whereby interested hackers brainstorm their ideas
> to be posted for public opinion? perhaps Mr. Adhocracy wanted us to
> ask him for his blessing before we got into a pad. also, this
> wouldn't
> have been the first time things are put together in "private" group
> conversations and collaboration pads before they reach the mailing
> lists, but whatever, welcome to coup #437 everybody!
> 
> others have told you already how much of a stretch this is, but
> apparently your mind is made up. you would rather double-down on your
> first impressions (which by the way you never bothered to confirm
> with
> us on the channels you were invited to afaict... let's talk about
> silence and one-sided conclusions there!). just as obscure is
> Tiberiu's apologetic reaction to Emulatorman's very polite OP. tl;dr
> version:
> 
> > Emulatorman: hey Tiberiu!, we have some doubts about the
> > accounting?
> > file
> > Tiberiu: I know you are dissatisfied, Ceata says goodbye.
> 
> ...gee, I wonder who could have maligned him in the dark to pull out
> before wider discussion took place. in any case, the contents of our
> devilish conspiracy were always meant to reach the lists, so
> observers
> deserve better than listening to your *recollection of events*.
> here's
> the thing:
> 
> https://pad.riseup.net/p/TYGrGEaO6Twt/timeslider
> 
> yes, some hackers expressed deep dissatisfaction with the donations
> system, citing how slow and difficult it is to deal with, and because
> it practically prevents those who would like to make a buck out of
> Parabola development from ever seeing a donor. hopefully this won't
> be
> a problem anymore.
> 
> > i sustain this even if it offended them.
> 
> with all respect, as someone who was barely involved in this affair,
> I
> deride your reaction not as offensive but paranoic.

+1000

> 
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From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr  7 22:32:35 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 22:32:35 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c@openmailbox.org>

On 04/07/2017 09:37 PM, hellekin wrote:
> I had a conversation with fauno.  I'm very disappointed at how things
> were (mis)handled and I am quite upset.  How comes adhocracy and
> consensus went to shit when it came to handling money?  Blaming Ceata
> for that when they only performed as they said they would brought
> Tiberiu to cancel your fiscal sponsorship, bravo, now you have to find
> another one within 2 months (good luck with that).  I only hope the
> Parabola community can survive your selfish brat behavior.
>
> ==
> hk
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>
No one bothered to respond to my e-mail which pointed out quite
explicitly the problem I see with Ceata and accepting donations.[1]
Anyone can see it was nearly impossible to use the money Ceata had. It
was going to come to a head sooner or later, and I glad it did now
rather than later.

I am unsure who exactly you are referring to as having "selfish brat
behaviour", but as someone who just happened to stumble upon this mess
when requesting help with postage and hardware for things I already
purchased on behalf of Parabola - I find it ridiculous. It's also nice
that you had a conversation with fauno without discussing it publicly.
If the community wants to split, so be it.

I have never used, nor at this point would ever want any part of your
donations.

We can survive without this money, and I think the community will be
much better off for it.
In your previous e-mail you suggested donating it to the FSF, this is a
fine solution - good luck making it happen.

Meanwhile, the free software movement will live and move on.

1. https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004894.html



From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Fri Apr  7 22:58:28 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 17:58:28 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>


Le ven. 7 avril 2017 ? 16:37, hellekin <hellekin at gnu.org> a ?crit :
> How comes adhocracy and
> consensus went to shit when it came to handling money?

well, no consensus was required to cancel the agreement,
and I fail to see how either of those concepts applied to
donations and their handling.

> Blaming Ceata for that

who are you citing exactly?

> when they only performed as they said

nobody claimed they didn't. the claim was that they couldn't
do nearly as much as some hackers wanted from them. ergo the
call for considering cancelling the agreement.

> now you have to find
> another one within 2 months (good luck with that)

https://git.parabola.nu/~~historic/ceata-agreement.git/tree/Parabola+Ceata_Agreement.markdown

section 7.c, "Termination Without a Fiscal Sponsor Successor"
simply says funds stay frozen until a new sponsor is found. 60
days is the grace period between notification and actual
cancellation. there's nothing in the terms per se to worry about.

> I only hope the Parabola community can survive your selfish brat 
> behavior.

I hope you aren't implying that some of our most active
contributors are selfish brats for the sin of wanting to
actually benefit from donations. that would be on a whole new
level of nonsense.

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943





From srw at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr  7 23:00:01 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar Wangberg)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2017 01:00:01 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
 <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1491606001.1823.1.camel@openmailbox.org>

fr., 07.04.2017 kl. 22.32 +0000, skrev Luke:
> On 04/07/2017 09:37 PM, hellekin wrote:
> > I had a conversation with fauno.??I'm very disappointed at how
> > things
> > were (mis)handled and I am quite upset.??How comes adhocracy and
> > consensus went to shit when it came to handling money???Blaming
> > Ceata
> > for that when they only performed as they said they would brought
> > Tiberiu to cancel your fiscal sponsorship, bravo, now you have to
> > find
> > another one within 2 months (good luck with that).??I only hope the
> > Parabola community can survive your selfish brat behavior.
> > 
> > ==
> > hk
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dev mailing list
> > Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> > 
> 
> No one bothered to respond to my e-mail which pointed out quite
> explicitly the problem I see with Ceata and accepting donations.[1]
> Anyone can see it was nearly impossible to use the money Ceata had.
> It
> was going to come to a head sooner or later, and I glad it did now
> rather than later.
> 
> I am unsure who exactly you are referring to as having "selfish brat
> behaviour", but as someone who just happened to stumble upon this
> mess
> when requesting help with postage and hardware for things I already
> purchased on behalf of Parabola - I find it ridiculous. It's also
> nice
> that you had a conversation with fauno without discussing it
> publicly.
> If the community wants to split, so be it.
> 
> I have never used, nor at this point would ever want any part of your
> donations.
> 
> We can survive without this money, and I think the community will be
> much better off for it.
> In your previous e-mail you suggested donating it to the FSF, this is
> a
> fine solution - good luck making it happen.
> 
> Meanwhile, the free software movement will live and move on.
> 
> 1. https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004894.html


+1000

> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr  7 23:47:12 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 19:47:12 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [Packaging] Error when compiling in clean ARMv7h chroot
In-Reply-To: <1491515678.950.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <82df3830-6036-d15c-7c46-813a64950da7@openmailbox.org>
 <1491486594.1085.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <9cbe5736-10d5-dac8-1b8e-b305a245a685@openmailbox.org>
 <1491515678.950.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <877f2vu6f3.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Thu, 06 Apr 2017 17:54:38 -0400,
Isaac David wrote:
> Le jeu. 6 avril 2017 ? 9:30, Megver83 a ?crit :
> > if I compile it in an ARMv7h machine, would it work?
> 
> it should since the bug comes from QEMU.
> 
> what Emulatorman suggests would allow you to create a new
> chroot so that you can build other packages, but given that
> the error is also triggered while building dagpkg you are out
> of luck building it with current QEMU, except maybe by making
> some changes.

*sigh* It sounds like /me is becoming a Qemu developer.  It's already
been on my TODO list to backport the linaro patches to modern qemu to
add support for the xattr syscalls.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr  7 23:59:27 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 19:59:27 -0400
Subject: [Dev] PATCH: Mate build
In-Reply-To: <c306fde7b279eecaa89efc729b755abd@riseup.net>
References: <c306fde7b279eecaa89efc729b755abd@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <8760ifu5uo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 07 Apr 2017 16:43:28 -0400,
Jovany Leandro G.C wrote:
> hi community, i very happy using your distribution 100% libre,
> 
> my name is Jovany Leandro G.C i from Colombia - Medellin, a software
> libre developer,
> how can i help, how can i start?
> 
> 
> i build a custom iso, but not work correctly
> parabolaiso.git:/mate/config/build.sh,
> i fix it, i send this patch if can help with something.
> 
> thanks for your great work

Hi Jovany,

Thanks for the patch!  I've lot track of which developers produce the
ISOs, but I'll make sure they see it.

If you are interested in contributing to Parabola more regularly, it's
a good idea to hang out on #parabola on Freenode IRC.  All of us
developers hang out there; though it might seem empty sometimes
because of timezone differences and crazy sleep schedules.  If you say
something, someone will see it... eventually.
https://wiki.parabola.nu/How_to_become_a_Parabola_hacker

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Sat Apr  8 04:20:23 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2017 01:20:23 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
 <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87h91zjzso.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> writes:
> I am unsure who exactly you are referring to as having "selfish brat
> behaviour", but as someone who just happened to stumble upon this mess
> when requesting help with postage and hardware for things I already
> purchased on behalf of Parabola - I find it ridiculous. It's also nice
> that you had a conversation with fauno without discussing it publicly.
> If the community wants to split, so be it.

this.  you go on and keep buying stuff without actually worrying if we
could make it work and try to force the hands of the people you say you
try to help.

this is why you lost us fiscal sponsorship and iirc ~1800 EUR you now
say we can do without, when a few mails back you all were so worried
about our donors.

now you casually bounce the idea of splitting the community, same as you
bounced the idea of ceata and then me stealing from the funds.  have you
been taking classes on post-truth perhaps?

-- 
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From how at gnu.org  Sat Apr  8 09:13:03 2017
From: how at gnu.org (hellekin)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2017 11:13:03 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <5bdb49b3-33ba-6bf0-7d3d-ad724a1df1c6@gnu.org>

On 04/08/2017 12:58 AM, Isaac David wrote:
> 
> Le ven. 7 avril 2017 ? 16:37, hellekin <hellekin at gnu.org> a ?crit :
>> How comes adhocracy and
>> consensus went to shit when it came to handling money?
> 
> well, no consensus was required to cancel the agreement,
>

No consensus was required to cancel the agreement on Ceata's side, but
as a matter of fact, consensus was always required to make any decision
in the Parabola community regarding community matters.

> and I fail to see how either of those concepts applied to
> donations and their handling.
>

The explanation above should stop you from failing anymore.

>> Blaming Ceata for that
> 
> who are you citing exactly?
>

Read the thread, Andr? and Aur?lien attacked Tiberiu.  I'm not sure
about others, and frankly have other things to do in my life than
documenting your bullshit.

I'm just saddened to see how you shot yourselves in the foot.

==
hk



From tct at ceata.org  Sat Apr  8 09:52:04 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2017 12:52:04 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
 <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58E8B2C4.3000302@ceata.org>

On 08.04.2017 01:32, Luke wrote:
> No one bothered to respond to my e-mail which pointed out quite
> explicitly the problem I see with Ceata and accepting donations.[1]

> 1. https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004894.html

Don't worry, you will. A little over 24 hours have passed since you sent
that e-mail. I will reply after I find the time to go through the e-mail
archive to check the facts about the situations presented.

Until then, my preliminary analysis is this:

* you don't mind getting your expensive budgets approved by Parabola
(you seem to think it's enough that Emulatorman approves them), instead
you request funds directly from fauno and Ceata, in private

* you seem to be always in a hurry to get the OK from fauno (that I
require) and disregard any concerns that he has, as Parabola delegate,
about the costs and the missing consensus

* you seem to be always in a hurry to get Ceata to pay for what you want
for Parabola, even though some conditions are not met and some
additional work and communication is needed for the payment to be done
in a fiscal-compliant manner for Ceata

* you put a lot of pressure to do things your way and fast, disregarding
the above

* you then pay yourself for the things you want for Parabola and you
blame Ceata that it has come to that

Tiberiu


From tct at ceata.org  Sat Apr  8 10:26:43 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2017 13:26:43 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <58E8BAE3.40703@ceata.org>

On 08.04.2017 01:58, Isaac David wrote:
> ergo the call for considering cancelling the agreement.

So you admit this is what it was all about with the original post:

Showing dissatisfaction with Ceata's performance as fiscal sponsor, for
Parabola hackers to decide "canceling the agreement" since fauno was not
in accord with your faction. Throw as much dirt towards Ceata to force
the decision.

Well, I understood that and made things easy for you. I on behalf of
Ceata have canceled the agreement. I and my organization don't need this.

I wish you were sincere 12h ago too, when you claimed:

On 08.04.2017 00:13, Isaac David wrote:
> just as obscure is Tiberiu's apologetic reaction to Emulatorman's
> very polite OP. tl;dr version:
>
> Emulatorman: hey Tiberiu!, we have some doubts about the accounting
> file
> Tiberiu: I know you are dissatisfied, Ceata says goodbye.
>
> ...gee, I wonder who could have maligned him in the dark to pull out
> before wider discussion took place.

This was never supposed to be a discussion.

And about this:

On 08.04.2017 00:13, Isaac David wrote:
> in any case, the contents of our
> devilish conspiracy were always meant to reach the lists, so observers
> deserve better than listening to your *recollection of events*. here's
> the thing:
>
> https://pad.riseup.net/p/TYGrGEaO6Twt/timeslider

every coup needs a plan to try give the action legitimacy, right? I'm
sure that this is not the only talk you had behind everyone's backs.

And what is this g4jc: RIP Ceata, Emulatorman: #rip-ceata, coadde:
rip-ceata. Do you really hate Ceata that much? RIP = Death. Is this your
goodbye wish to Ceata? Have you named your communication channel #rip-ceata?

You are so low...

Tiberiu


From mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com  Sat Apr  8 10:52:58 2017
From: mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com (Bill Auger)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2017 06:52:58 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible Builds
Message-ID: <CAD3PP07c9LMccYkbyV5h32rrV-AokFcGotc-C-SgiXUuXeSBwA@mail.gmail.com>

id like to clarify a bit what i think are some mis-conceptions expressed
yesterday in the IRC channel regarding reproducible builds

a jenkins server is not a requirement for this task - there is no standard
procedure or tooling to achieve reproducibility - the jenkins integration
is for the reproducible-builds.org CI server to demonstrate that packages
can be built and verified by a third-party - for the actual work each
distro is free to use whatever procedure and tools suits them for the
plainly speaking general goal of making their builds reproducible

that being said - the jenkins integration is already done - arch has been
working with them for some time and arch packages are already building on
the "reproducible-builds" CI server - also to be clear they are not the AUR
packages but the official arch packages - the next major step forward for
arch and parabola is to patch pacman to reproduce and verify builds - ive
been told that this patch is completed and nearly ready to be implemented
widely

so there are no major technical blocks to begin - the first step for
parabola is to address the TODO: items on the wiki article - anthraxx and
the reproducible-builds team are eager to work with parabola once some
planning, competency, and/or current efforts are demonstrated publicly

https://wiki.parabola.nu/Reproducible_Builds
-------------- next part --------------
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From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Sat Apr  8 13:16:33 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2017 13:16:33 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87h91zjzso.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
 <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c@openmailbox.org>
 <87h91zjzso.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <c91ef797-d928-370c-5185-483ae1b8820f@openmailbox.org>

On 04/08/2017 04:20 AM, fauno wrote:
> Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> writes:
>> I am unsure who exactly you are referring to as having "selfish brat
>> behaviour", but as someone who just happened to stumble upon this mess
>> when requesting help with postage and hardware for things I already
>> purchased on behalf of Parabola - I find it ridiculous. It's also nice
>> that you had a conversation with fauno without discussing it publicly.
>> If the community wants to split, so be it.
> this.  you go on and keep buying stuff without actually worrying if we
> could make it work and try to force the hands of the people you say you
> try to help.
>
> this is why you lost us fiscal sponsorship and iirc ~1800 EUR you now
> say we can do without, when a few mails back you all were so worried
> about our donors.
>
> now you casually bounce the idea of splitting the community, same as you
> bounced the idea of ceata and then me stealing from the funds.  have you
> been taking classes on post-truth perhaps?

Multiple personal attacks (ad hominem), but no substance. This money was
going to keep piling up, and it was very difficult to actually use.
Multiple developers, and users, agreed on this as being a serious issue
as the funds continued growing over time.

As far as development, I hope it doesn't split us at all, but it has
caused unnecessary division and this on going flamewar over something
that should have been simple.

Since the fiscal sponsorship expires soon, I do hope it can either be
distributed amongst the developers that need it, or benefit the FSF, or
go to some other organization the helps the free software movement. Per
the agreements terms, which I've read, that may not be possible. It
states that once 60 days notice is given, funds "will remain inactive
for any motive other than transference".[1]

1.
https://git.parabola.nu/~~historic/ceata-agreement.git/tree/Parabola+Ceata_Agreement.markdown


From nobody at parabola.nu  Sat Apr  8 17:40:04 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2017 17:40:04 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [icedove] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170408174004.1101.56235@proton.parabola.nu>

kontakt at ghaglund.se wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* icedove 1:45.8.0.deb3-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icedove/
* icedove 1:45.8.0.deb3-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icedove/


The user provided the following additional text:

Thunderbird 52 is available



From nobody at parabola.nu  Sat Apr  8 17:40:52 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2017 17:40:52 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [icedove] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170408174052.1102.39929@proton.parabola.nu>

kontakt at ghaglund.se wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:




The user provided the following additional text:

Thunderbird 52 is available



From nobody at parabola.nu  Sat Apr  8 17:41:20 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2017 17:41:20 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [icedove] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170408174120.1103.74187@proton.parabola.nu>

kontakt at ghaglund.se wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:




The user provided the following additional text:

Thunderbird 52 is available



From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Sat Apr  8 17:46:35 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2017 12:46:35 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <58E8BAE3.40703@ceata.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <58E8BAE3.40703@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>


Le sam. 8 avril 2017 ? 5:26, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic a ?crit :
> On 08.04.2017 01:58, Isaac David wrote:
>>  ergo the call for considering cancelling the agreement.
> 
> So you admit this is what it was all about with the original post:
> Showing dissatisfaction with Ceata's performance as fiscal sponsor, 
> for
> Parabola hackers to decide "canceling the agreement" since fauno was 
> not
> in accord with your faction. Throw as much dirt towards Ceata to force
> the decision.

if by "original post" you mean this thread's OP, then no, you are
reading between lines.  as a matter of fact, Emulatorman, Gaming4JC
and coadde wanted to part ways with your organisation, peacefully and
transparently, and I echoed their wish for a more agile donations
system. I challenge those who have accused any of us of slandering you
or your organisation to support their claims.

all of us knew we couldn't take that decision for either party in the
agreement. it was the all-too-brief consultation with fauno and
subsequent disagreement that led Emulatorman to reconsider his
position and thus begin this thread. you should feel bad for accusing
him, without merit, of smearing you or forcing you into anything. he
was merely posing you sincere accountability questions.

> Well, I understood that and made things easy for you. I on behalf of
> Ceata have canceled the agreement. I and my organization don't need 
> this.

fine, so you admit you took that decision freely, and that Ceata doing
this was one of the the normal pathways for the agreement to
dissolve. cognitive dissonance is such a capricious prick, isn't it?

I can't argue with Ceata wanting to take the first step as soon as you
became aware of the disagreement. nobody can. your decision does
happen to coincide with what the aforementioned Parabola hackers
wanted; so be it. those who feel mad at the dissolution have no reason
to blame some hackers for merely wanting it to happen, nor can they
blame Ceata for exercising their right to dissolve it, regardless of
whatever consensus could have been formed on Parabola's side.

> I wish you were sincere 12h ago too, when you claimed:
> 
> On 08.04.2017 00:13, Isaac David wrote:
>>  just as obscure is Tiberiu's apologetic reaction to Emulatorman's
>>  very polite OP. tl;dr version:
>> 
>>  Emulatorman: hey Tiberiu!, we have some doubts about the accounting
>>  file
>>  Tiberiu: I know you are dissatisfied, Ceata says goodbye.
>> 
>>  ...gee, I wonder who could have maligned him in the dark to pull out
>>  before wider discussion took place.

you'll see, both things are true. I truly suspect fauno gave you
his lopsided rundown in private before you replied to this
thread, *and* the aforementioned people wanted to bring the idea
of dissolving the agreement to this list (that was one of the
ancillary purposes of writing the pad after all), which sooner or
later would have taken us to asking Parabola's representative
before Ceata for input. it's not that difficult to understand.

> This was never supposed to be a discussion.

because you say so, am I right? I have already presented all of
you with the pad at riseup, timeline and all. (I don't know why it
wasn't brought up earlier, before speculation and flaming ran
amok). what do you have to offer?

> And about this:
> 
> On 08.04.2017 00:13, Isaac David wrote:
>>  in any case, the contents of our
>>  devilish conspiracy were always meant to reach the lists, so 
>> observers
>>  deserve better than listening to your *recollection of events*. 
>> here's
>>  the thing:
>> 
>>  https://pad.riseup.net/p/TYGrGEaO6Twt/timeslider
> 
> every coup needs a plan to try give the action legitimacy, right? I'm
> sure that this is not the only talk you had behind everyone's backs.
> 
> And what is this g4jc: RIP Ceata, Emulatorman: #rip-ceata, coadde:
> rip-ceata. Do you really hate Ceata that much? RIP = Death. Is this 
> your
> goodbye wish to Ceata? Have you named your communication channel 
> #rip-ceata?
> 
> You are so low...

hang on for a second, I'm reaching out for my tinfoil hat...
done!

<sarcasm>

sure, it couldn't have meant that they wanted to bring forth
the proposal of parting ways with Ceata amicably in order to reshape
money influx with some new ideas they had been working on, as they
wrote multiple times on the pad:

> Since we have Ceata issues to use our money (It should be discussed...

> * Propose cancel Ceata services...

in fact #rip-ceata was codename for buying a tombstone for
Tiberiu. I would be watching my back if I were you!

</sarcasm>

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943




From tct at ceata.org  Sat Apr  8 19:17:17 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2017 22:17:17 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <c91ef797-d928-370c-5185-483ae1b8820f@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <01cc6142-d015-dc66-e455-abbca65b5d88@riseup.net>
 <1491435100.15591.0.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <1086862b-3a90-837a-f140-dc2501ef489e@riseup.net>
 <87d1cqqct6.fsf@hackers.camp> <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <7c242159-3c1a-82e0-4ddf-084985d2fe96@gnu.org>
 <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c@openmailbox.org>
 <87h91zjzso.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <c91ef797-d928-370c-5185-483ae1b8820f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58E9373D.7050901@ceata.org>

On 08.04.2017 16:16, Luke wrote:
> Multiple developers, and users, agreed on this as being a serious issue
> as the funds continued growing over time.

You have drawn this conclusion for them and they've naively believed you.

No matter, I'm looking forward to receive the written notice from the
new Fiscal Sponsor Successor.

Tiberiu


From ovruni at gnu.org.pe  Sat Apr  8 21:30:23 2017
From: ovruni at gnu.org.pe (Omar Vega Ramos)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2017 16:30:23 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <79347861-793e-c9fe-8fef-c60635e27fc3@gnu.org.pe>


> I just wanted to take a moment to say that while questions were being
> asked by members of our community, no one has made the public the
> decision to "terminate".
> However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us (which is
> allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement within 60 days.
> 
> As for current consensus:
> I think we should immediately remove donation links from the website to
> avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until this matter is
> resolved.

+1

-- 
Omar Vega Ramos
GPG ID: 6D5DBA58


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sat Apr  8 23:45:21 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2017 20:45:21 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [icedove] marked out-of-date
In-Reply-To: <20170408174052.1102.39929@proton.parabola.nu>
References: <20170408174052.1102.39929@proton.parabola.nu>
Message-ID: <4eb4fe2a-fcc2-2d28-ba3f-8c475c7445d8@openmailbox.org>

upstream version depends on Debian's Icedove, not Mozilla Thunderbird

El 08/04/17 a las 14:40, Parabola Website Notification escribi?:
> kontakt at ghaglund.se wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The user provided the following additional text:
> 
> Thunderbird 52 is available
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 


From nobody at parabola.nu  Sat Apr  8 23:54:07 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2017 23:54:07 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [yacy] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170408235407.1103.2462@proton.parabola.nu>

mittens2001 at opmbx.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* yacy 1.90-1 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/yacy/


The user provided the following additional text:

1.92



From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sun Apr  9 04:58:53 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2017 00:58:53 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible Builds
In-Reply-To: <CAD3PP07c9LMccYkbyV5h32rrV-AokFcGotc-C-SgiXUuXeSBwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3PP07c9LMccYkbyV5h32rrV-AokFcGotc-C-SgiXUuXeSBwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <874lxytbw2.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Sat, 08 Apr 2017 06:52:58 -0400,
Bill Auger wrote:
> id like to clarify a bit what i think are some mis-conceptions
> expressed yesterday in the IRC channel regarding reproducible builds

Hi Bill,

The first step is that we simply need better tracking of exactly what
source is being used to produce a package--we have a real deficiency
here introduced when we ditched Arch's SVN-based tooling for git.

I expect to publish a new release of libretools in the next week will
resolve this build-side.

After that, where the information goes after it is uploaded has a few
unresolved questions.  While I'm not giving up on PBS as a long-term
solution, I believe that an MVP/POC can be worked out very quickly
with some minimal changes to dbscripts.

This is really a prerequisite to beginning any real work on R-B.

> a jenkins server is not a requirement for this task - there is no
> standard procedure or tooling to achieve reproducibility - the
> jenkins integration is for the reproducible-builds.org CI server to
> demonstrate that packages can be built and verified by a third-party
> - for the actual work each distro is free to use whatever procedure
> and tools suits them for the plainly speaking general goal of making
> their builds reproducible

I do think that borrowing/building on the work that has been done for
the tests.R-B.org/archlinux server is a good idea.  I'm not sure
Jenkins itself is entirely necessary though; it seems a little
heavyweight for what is a pretty simple task. (Well, there are several
complicated bits of the task, but they aren't the parts addressed by
Jenkins).

> that being said - the jenkins integration is already done - arch has
> been working with them for some time and arch packages are already
> building on the "reproducible-builds" CI server

It's currently a TODO item on the Arch jenkins to use disorderfs.
This is definitely a requirement for me.

Who runs that server?  Is it donated by anthraxx, the R-B team, or
someone else?

>                                                 - also to be clear
> they are not the AUR packages but the official arch packages - the
> next major step forward for arch and parabola is to patch pacman to
> reproduce and verify builds - ive been told that this patch is
> completed and nearly ready to be implemented widely

There are deficiencies in anthraxx's code; I've posted a review of it:
https://github.com/anthraxx/pacman/commit/69a94ad47cec921f01f886c4fd310e9f2ca800d3

I've also mostly completed it--we have a tool `librefetch` which at
runtime creates a patched copy of makepkg that produces reproducible
tarballs; most of that can be re-used (we'll just have to apply the
changes to the version supplied in the main `pacman` package).

> so there are no major technical blocks to begin - the first step for
> parabola is to address the TODO: items on the wiki article -

> > 2.2 make pacman produce reproducible builds
> >
> > this task is mostly completed - arch developer 'anthraxx' 

See above.

> anthraxx and the reproducible-builds team are eager to work with
> parabola once some planning, competency, and/or current efforts are
> demonstrated publicly
> 
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Reproducible_Builds

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com  Sun Apr  9 08:32:34 2017
From: mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com (Bill Auger)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 04:32:34 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible Builds
Message-ID: <CAD3PP045wh5kY8HP8KCRa1PnQMsU0h_mKTrpHwUnDn79zFdEtw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> wrote:
>
> I do think that borrowing/building on the work that has been done for
> the tests.R-B.org/archlinux server is a good idea.  I'm not sure
> Jenkins itself is entirely necessary though; it seems a little
> heavyweight for what is a pretty simple task.

i think there is still a mis-conception implied in that - there is
nothing useful to "leverage" regarding the jenkins server at r-b.o -
it is not a build farm - it exists solely as an independent party for
the purpose of verification playing the role of the end-user
stakeholder - it is of no usefulness to parabola other than as a
public verification of parabola's commitment and competency
demonstrated by an impartial party

in other words each distro is free to implement using whichever tools
and procedures they choose - in the simplest final stages the jenkins
server at r-b.o could have nothing more than the patched pacman
exactly as will be shipped to end-users which downloads the patched
sources and prepares the expected build environment automatically
based on some prescription associated with each package

debian specifies the environment in a .BUILDINFO metadata file for
example that accompanies the sources but again, each distro can handle
that as it chooses - this declares in a functional way such constants
as the exact versions of the compiler and dependencies - (i.e.
compiler ^ dependencies ^ sources ^ env-vars -> deterministic-result)
- jenkins re-builds each package several times randomizing some
unspecified factors to verify that the build is reproducible given
only the source and the prescribed build environment expectations - it
then discards the artifacts and displays the test results on the web -
there is nothing more to it

the fuzz thrown into the pre-defined build environment includes
varying the following, none of which must ever affect the output or
else the verification will fail

date and time,
build path,
hostname,
domain name,
filesystem,
environment variables,
timezone,
language,
locale,
user name,
user id,
group name,
group id,
kernel version,
umask,
CPU type,
number of CPU cores.

see https://reproducible-builds.org/docs/


From dudumomo at gmail.com  Sun Apr  9 15:15:40 2017
From: dudumomo at gmail.com (Dudumomo)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 22:15:40 +0700
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <79347861-793e-c9fe-8fef-c60635e27fc3@gnu.org.pe>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <79347861-793e-c9fe-8fef-c60635e27fc3@gnu.org.pe>
Message-ID: <CAJK42p=MRS=Nib5p_zAeU0L1uifx313mo_Dxq0Tb9J6=tSoDeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I do not participate much to the newsletter (I only mirror), but I can feel
the tension of the conversation.

Since we have less than 2 months to find a fiscal sponsorship, I would
prefer to focus there.
Even if there is fees, it is probably better to reach out to others fiscal
sponsors.

By the way, using a fiscal sponsorship is not something all opensource
software are doing, and probably most of them are using a legal entity as
an association or something like this depending of the country. At that
time, was it done to solve a particular issue?

The main issues I'm seeing are, you need some paperwork / admin (But mostly
at the startup and once a year) and probably the most troublesome in some
cases, donations are not tax deductible.
But after, it's very flexible, tranparent, etc..

Just asking and trying to help :)



On 9 April 2017 at 04:30, Omar Vega Ramos <ovruni at gnu.org.pe> wrote:

>
> > I just wanted to take a moment to say that while questions were being
> > asked by members of our community, no one has made the public the
> > decision to "terminate".
> > However, as Ceata has already made this decision for us (which is
> > allowed per ?7), it will be unlikely to find a replacement within 60
> days.
> >
> > As for current consensus:
> > I think we should immediately remove donation links from the website to
> > avoid further loss/confusion of Parabola donations until this matter is
> > resolved.
>
> +1
>
> --
> Omar Vega Ramos
> GPG ID: 6D5DBA58
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr  9 18:25:36 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 15:25:36 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Request] Create spanish-speakers users list
Message-ID: <c78be0ca-ccf1-3030-cb54-19bb0bbd0932@openmailbox.org>

Hi, I wanted to propose the creation of a Spanish-speakers mailing list
due to the constant talk and questions about Parabola in other forums,
e.g. Trisquel's forum. And example of this is:
https://trisquel.info/es/forum/instalar-interfaz-gr%C3%A1fica-en-parabola

If there is a Romanian list, so as there are enough Parabola's users
which only speak spanish, why not creating it? It has been asked before
https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/967
-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox:
EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA3791
GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Mon Apr 10 01:34:06 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2017 21:34:06 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible Builds
In-Reply-To: <CAD3PP045wh5kY8HP8KCRa1PnQMsU0h_mKTrpHwUnDn79zFdEtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3PP045wh5kY8HP8KCRa1PnQMsU0h_mKTrpHwUnDn79zFdEtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87zifprqpd.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Sun, 09 Apr 2017 04:32:34 -0400,
Bill Auger wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> wrote:
> >
> > I do think that borrowing/building on the work that has been done for
> > the tests.R-B.org/archlinux server is a good idea.  I'm not sure
> > Jenkins itself is entirely necessary though; it seems a little
> > heavyweight for what is a pretty simple task.
> 
> i think there is still a mis-conception implied in that - there is
> nothing useful to "leverage" regarding the jenkins server at r-b.o -
> it is not a build farm

No, the server/hardware itself is not useful, but code has been
written for job dispatch.

> debian specifies the environment in a .BUILDINFO metadata file for
> example that accompanies the sources but again, each distro can handle
> that as it chooses - this declares in a functional way such constants
> as the exact versions of the compiler and dependencies - (i.e.
> compiler ^ dependencies ^ sources ^ env-vars -> deterministic-result)
> - jenkins re-builds each package several times randomizing some
> unspecified factors to verify that the build is reproducible given
> only the source and the prescribed build environment expectations - it
> then discards the artifacts and displays the test results on the web -
> there is nothing more to it

Yes, this was actually mostly implemented in pacman/makepkg 5.  There
are some timestamps that cause problems, but pacman 5 took a big cue
from other R-B efforts.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker

PS: your message didn't have the 'In-Reply-To' or 'References' headers
set; screwing up threading.


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Mon Apr 10 01:48:08 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2017 21:48:08 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <CAJK42p=MRS=Nib5p_zAeU0L1uifx313mo_Dxq0Tb9J6=tSoDeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <79347861-793e-c9fe-8fef-c60635e27fc3@gnu.org.pe>
 <CAJK42p=MRS=Nib5p_zAeU0L1uifx313mo_Dxq0Tb9J6=tSoDeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87wpatrq1z.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Sun, 09 Apr 2017 11:15:40 -0400,
Dudumomo wrote:
> Since we have less than 2 months to find a fiscal sponsorship, I would prefer to focus there.
> Even if there is fees, it is probably better to reach out to others fiscal sponsors.

We have as much time as we need.  In 2 months, Ceata will stop acting
as our fiscal sponsor.  If we have not found a new fiscal sponsor by
then, Ceata will simply lock our funds until we do find a new fiscal
sponsor; at which point they will transfer the funds to the new
sponsor.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 10 02:17:56 2017
From: eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org (Eliot Reyna)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 21:17:56 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87wpatrq1z.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <79347861-793e-c9fe-8fef-c60635e27fc3@gnu.org.pe>
 <CAJK42p=MRS=Nib5p_zAeU0L1uifx313mo_Dxq0Tb9J6=tSoDeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wpatrq1z.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <ffc6210d-f7bc-989e-a9ef-94332dc5d4ae@openmailbox.org>

What about FSF? Actually, is the fiscal sponsor of gNewSense.

Also, SPI is good as fiscal sponsor. However, SPI actually is the fiscal 
sponsor of Arch Linux and Debian. Even Peers Community is the actual 
sponsor of notabug and Libreboot.

Eliot.

El 09/04/2017 a las 08:48 p.m., Luke Shumaker escribi?:
> On Sun, 09 Apr 2017 11:15:40 -0400,
> Dudumomo wrote:
>> Since we have less than 2 months to find a fiscal sponsorship, I would prefer to focus there.
>> Even if there is fees, it is probably better to reach out to others fiscal sponsors.
> We have as much time as we need.  In 2 months, Ceata will stop acting
> as our fiscal sponsor.  If we have not found a new fiscal sponsor by
> then, Ceata will simply lock our funds until we do find a new fiscal
> sponsor; at which point they will transfer the funds to the new
> sponsor.
>



From eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 10 02:27:36 2017
From: eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org (Eliot Reyna)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 21:27:36 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [icedove] marked out-of-date
In-Reply-To: <4eb4fe2a-fcc2-2d28-ba3f-8c475c7445d8@openmailbox.org>
References: <20170408174052.1102.39929@proton.parabola.nu>
 <4eb4fe2a-fcc2-2d28-ba3f-8c475c7445d8@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <f92491d5-1951-3768-c8af-c076717a7534@openmailbox.org>

Reminder: Icedove source code depends of the Debian community. However, 
they're on transition into Mozilla Thunderbird, and maybe the Parabola 
Hackers are keeping the Icedove branding, improving for the usage for 
future versions of Thunderbird that Debian releases, such actually 
happens with the source code of Iceweasel since Debian re-branded it as 
Firefox since version 45.

https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1200

Actually, the GIT repo of Debian Icedove does not show activity related 
into Icedove progress (specially, into the rebranding to Thunderbird):

https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-mozilla/icedove.git

Thanks.

Eliot.


El 08/04/2017 a las 06:45 p.m., Megver83 escribi?:
> upstream version depends on Debian's Icedove, not Mozilla Thunderbird
>
> El 08/04/17 a las 14:40, Parabola Website Notification escribi?:
>> kontakt at ghaglund.se wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The user provided the following additional text:
>>
>> Thunderbird 52 is available
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dev mailing list
>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev



From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Mon Apr 10 03:31:24 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2017 23:31:24 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <ffc6210d-f7bc-989e-a9ef-94332dc5d4ae@openmailbox.org>
References: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <58E51F8A.3080609@ceata.org> <58E52091.2050202@ceata.org>
 <bb332132-afbf-cd6a-4612-50b8dcf9f12f@openmailbox.org>
 <79347861-793e-c9fe-8fef-c60635e27fc3@gnu.org.pe>
 <CAJK42p=MRS=Nib5p_zAeU0L1uifx313mo_Dxq0Tb9J6=tSoDeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87wpatrq1z.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <ffc6210d-f7bc-989e-a9ef-94332dc5d4ae@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <877f2trl9v.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Sun, 09 Apr 2017 22:17:56 -0400,
Eliot Reyna wrote:
> What about FSF? Actually, is the fiscal sponsor of gNewSense.
> 
> Also, SPI is good as fiscal sponsor. However, SPI actually is the
> fiscal sponsor of Arch Linux and Debian. Even Peers Community is the
> actual sponsor of notabug and Libreboot.

While I don't remember for certain, there were 2 major concerns with
most of the potential sponsors we looked at, which included the FSF
and SPI:

 1. The take a percentage of the donations (Ceata very generously did
    not)
 2. They dictated things about project structure (Ceata was willing to
    be "hands off", and let us organize ourselves how we wish)

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Mon Apr 10 05:07:11 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 01:07:11 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Sunday   : <fauno> i have the feeling this will get ugly
Wednesday: *it gets ugly*
... well shit.

From: fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org>
Message-Id: <87y3vdjufz.fsf at endefensadelsl.org>
> all of this made me lose sleep over a week, not knowing what kind of
> mess i would find every morning, 

I was worried about it for you, and what you would have to deal with
in the morning.  I know on IRC you queried me and asked me to weigh
in.  You are a stronger man than I, because I saw the mess, and was
like "I don't have the will to deal with this", and buried myself in
code.  (I've also been traveling and availability of my email has been
sporadic).  I apologize, to fauno especially, that I didn't really
contribute to the discussion until after the dust had somewhat
settled.

This is one mega-email that responds to a bunch of things that have
been said.

----

The server purchasing decisions were being had by only 2 members of
the Parabola community (gaming4jc and emulatorman), plus fauno and
Tiberiu on the receiving end of the requests.

  https://share.riseup.net/#bZqxbeJ5xair5HlVOk-Afw

While I understand, and am a fan of, the "you don't need to ask for
permission to get things done" aspect of Adhocracy, given the size of
Parabola's developer community, and that the costs of the server were
a fairly substantial part of Parabola's funds, it absolutely was a
mistake to not have this discussion with more members of the
community.

It is debatable whether it should have been totally public on dev@,
but it should have happened in view of more than 3 people with
@parabola.nu emails.

To be clear, I 100% DO NOT blame Ceata or Tiberiu for this; the
members of the Parabola developer community who engaged in this
discussion are to blame.  Our charter with Ceata specifies a single
community delegate to interface with, and that is what they did.
Responsibility for proper involvement of the community falls on the
delegate's side of that contract.

I suppose that means that fauno shares a part of the blame, for not
saying "hey, we should be having this conversation with more people,"
but that is a very, *very*, small part of the blame; those trying to
use the community's funds without first discussing it with the entire
community are the ones truly to blame.

Beyond a vague awareness that a build server was being acquired, I had
no knowledge of the details of it; and I believe that this was true
for most of the Parabola developer community.  We should not have been
kept in the dark.  If I were Emulatorman, this is where I would
condescendingly link to the "cliques" section of the Adhocracy
article.

From: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>
Message-Id: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26 at riseup.net>
> If it isn't possible, then we should open a legal entity (eg.
> offshore)

(to pick one sentence to quote)

Look, handing money to someone is easy.  But then governments get
involved because taxes, and everything gets complicated.  Even if it
"should" be simple.

Half of the things you've suggested are "probably technically tax
fraud (ask a lawyer!), but you'd probably get away with it."  When
dealing with governments and taxes and non-profit/not-for-profit
status, shit gets painful.  That's just a fact of life.

When companies do crazy shit like setting up wholly owned subsidiaries
in off-shore tax havens and whatnot, it's made possible/legal by a
high-powered, high-paid, lawyer (or, more likely, a team of them!),
whose salary is less than the crazy-large amount of money being saved.
They essentially get an economy of scale.  Unless we somehow find
ourselves in a situation where we are overflowing with enough money to
retain a lawyer, then going down this path is going down the path of
"accidentally committing tax fraud, and hoping we get away with it."

I volunteer with a local high-school robotics team.  They build a
robot every year, and take it to competitions.  When there's a part
that we indisputably need, has an established and accepted price, and
an universally agreed upon vendor, we STILL have to go through a
process.

What I saw of the records of emails that I've been shown, the process
with Ceata was NOTHING unusual.

From: Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info>
Message-Id: <1491599607.2564.0 at plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
> Le jeu. 6 avril 2017 ? 12:51, fauno a ?crit :
> > then i'm invited to a tox channel where i read some people basically
> > think ceata and tct are keeping the money for themselves and their
> > task is to recover it, given their "unwillingness" to make expenses on
> > our behalf, which i found ridiculous. i mention it looks like a coup,
> > since it's a secret meeting to form a consensus out of reach from the
> > whole community.
> 
> did anyone mention FUD? Beware the sarcasm in my reply...
> 
> so they wanted to form a consensus that wasn't a real consensus,
> how would that even work fauno?
> 
> on what universe does a coup consist of organizing around making
> Parabola development more lively and sustainable for more developers,

In the same universe where a discussion among 3 members of the
community on various private forums forces the entire community to
have severed relations with their fiscal sponsor.

Beside the pad, there were various other private communications to
various other members of the community, that are perhaps best
described as "indented, at least in part, to plant the seeds of doubt
and mistrust toward Ceata, and toward fauno."

> then writing a pad whereby interested hackers brainstorm their ideas
> to be posted for public opinion? perhaps Mr. Adhocracy wanted us to
> ask him for his blessing before we got into a pad. also, this wouldn't
> have been the first time things are put together in "private" group
> conversations and collaboration pads before they reach the mailing
> lists, but whatever, welcome to coup #437 everybody!

Yeah, 'cause those start on IRC, and if not, are quickly opened to the
entire community.  Most of the community didn't even know that the pad
existed, or that there was *any* issue or concerns regarding funds and
Ceata until after ?7 had been invoked.

That's a coup.

From: Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info>
Message-Id: <1491673595.1506.0 at plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
> I truly suspect fauno gave you [Tiberiu] his lopsided rundown in
> private before you replied to this thread,

Tiberiu was witnessed much more of this "first hand" than I did, but
the "rundown" that fauno gave me was not a rundown at all--he pretty
transparently gave me (overwhelmed me) with complete transcripts.

Isaac, I suspect you are more the victim of a lopsided rundown than
Tiberiu is.  I don't know which things you saw, but there was much
more communication than what you witnessed on the pad.

From: Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info>
Message-Id: <1491605908.2564.1 at plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
> I hope you aren't implying that some of our most active
> contributors are selfish brats for the sin of wanting to
> actually benefit from donations. that would be on a whole new
> level of nonsense.

Ah yes, because being a prolific developer makes one's behavior beyond
reproach.  If he were on the other side of the issue, this is where I
believe that Emulatorman would link to the "Overview" of the Adhocracy
article, mostly intending to the invoke the bit about the difference
between Adhocracy and Meritocracy.

Maybe moving away from Ceata is the right decision.  I don't think it
is, but I don't know.  It should have been discussed by the community.
It was really shitty of Emulatorman, g4jc, et al. to have forced the
issue the way they did.

From: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>
Message-Id: <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc at riseup.net>
> i would say that **the community is its pillar** and not a single
> person because AFAIK Parabola isn't based on **Meritocracy**, but
> **Adhocracy**.

No. Shut up.  fauno is a pillar of the community.  This is a fact.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pillar_of_the_community
| Noun
|  pillar of the community (plural pillars of the community)
|
|   1. A prominent member or supporter of a particular community.

From: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>
Message-Id: <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc at riseup.net>
> I suggest read "Overview" in Adhocracy article for further details [0]
> 
> [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy#Overview

I suggest you re-read the section on cliques.  While I support many of
the purchasing decisions that I've tried to use the Ceata-held funds
for (now that I know about them), these were being made out of view of
the community.  Not being blessed with getting Cc'ed on your emails
meant to everyone else "that their participation is not welcome".
Discussions happening away from public spaces mean that "what is
happening in the group is a partial assessment does not include those
that are not."

From: Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c at openmailbox.org>
> On 04/07/2017 09:37 PM, hellekin wrote:
> > I had a conversation with fauno.  I'm very disappointed at how things
> > were (mis)handled and I am quite upset.
> It's also nice that you had a conversation with fauno without
> discussing it publicly.  If the community wants to split, so be it.

I assume that hellekin's private communication with fauno began much
the same as mine did:

  <lukeshu> hey
  <fauno>   hey
  <lukeshu> So I guess I've been oblivious to some drama about access
            to donations?
  <fauno>   yes
  <fauno>   what have you heard?

That is: It happened in response to other private communication.

----

Even if everything with the build server does work out, and we get the
server worked out in Uruguay; Ceata generously offered to allow us to
co-locate a server in their datacenter for free (and the server would
be acquired much more cost-effectively than shipping one to Uruguay).
Remember how the build-server plan I posted on the 31st involved 2
servers?  Beside the all of the community and relationships stuff, I'm
pissed that the behavior of members of our community screwed us out of
a 2nd bare-metal server.  Shit, even before they pushed Ceata to walk
away, they rejected the offer for the co-located server.  That was a
great offer!  Why did only 2 members of the community get to weigh in
on it!?

----

Of the things I've gotten upset about with Parabola in the recent
past, it has all been because of lack of communication/documentation.
Adhocracy means that you can just do things, and don't have to waste
time discussing it first.  However, for the community to survive,
things need to be discussable; when you do something, you need to
write down why you did it, and make it visible for critique, and
correction.

For decisions involving how to use the community's funds, maybe that
means pasting a transcript of an IRC conversation to the
mailing list, or a wiki page.

Just about every time you run 'sudo' on one of the servers, that
should probably be an email.

We need to be more aggressive about documenting and making public what
we do.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Apr 10 13:02:26 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 13:02:26 +0000
Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2017-05-01] Emulatorman's expulsion
In-Reply-To: <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>

Hi guys, since there was a lot of misunderstanding about the previous
discussion [0], i would share in details a private conversation between
fauno, the involved Parabola devs and me after the pad. Therefore, if
i'm to blame for all of it, then i would give the decision in the hands
of the community to decide my expulsion or still wish to stay in
Parabola, since it could be the best way to solve this issue inside our
community, therefore I won't respond more emails of this consensus.

In the private email, g4jc and me were explaining the details and
reasons about that pad, Ceata, Roumania and my proposal about open a
legal entity (offshore). [1]

I should very much like to clear up that i never had plans to make "Tax
evasion? without the devs declaring gains in their residential
countries. In one of those emails i put the following:

"Obviously, if we use only offshore without a way to declare and pay
fees and taxes in our residence countries when the money is arrived ?in
our hands?, it is considered ?Tax evasion?. Although numbers are
difficult to ascertain, it is widely believed that individuals in
wealthy nations unlawfully evade tax through not declaring gains made by
offshore vehicles that they own."

Some of our devs were interested about offer Services (technical
support, pentesting) and a WebStore to receive money and go toward
Parabola developers, as a way to pay their bills, food, inside Parabola,
otherwise a certain percentage go to Parabola project.

Those "secret meetings" were a proposal made by me to suggest them
prepare and fulfil their ideas before begin the consensus inside
Parabola, to the community make a decision under consensus. More details
about another things you can read in that private email [1]

Afterall, maybe is it my fault? yes or no? i don't know, i prefer keep
this decision for the community since it is its distro, not mine.

If i should be kick off from Parabola, no problem i will accept it and
i'll bring the happy memories in Parabola, without exceptions, devs and
users, in short, the community! Therefore and independent of the
consensus decision, i would to thank God, all devs, users and all people
for all, no matter our differences. If i made mistakes or bother you,
i'm so sorry!

BTW, don't fight between yourself for my fault, i wish you join forces
to go ahead together since Parabola is a wonderful distro and it need
fight for the freedom for its community!

Someday ago, i remembered about user that said me "Is it a bird? a
plane? It's Emulatorman", i would respond him "Thanks, but i'm not a
hero, i'm as mortal as anyone else, full of defects, I'm just a human,
not a machine."

Sincerely,
Andr?.

[0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004848.html
[1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/parabola-emails/private_conversation.txt?noredirect

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From srw at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 10 14:22:58 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar Wangberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 16:22:58 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <1491834178.1042.2.camel@openmailbox.org>

ma., 10.04.2017 kl. 01.07 -0400, skrev Luke Shumaker:
> Sunday???: <fauno> i have the feeling this will get ugly
> Wednesday: *it gets ugly*
> ... well shit.
> 
> From: fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org>
> Message-Id: <87y3vdjufz.fsf at endefensadelsl.org>
> > all of this made me lose sleep over a week, not knowing what kind
> > of
> > mess i would find every morning,?
> 
> I was worried about it for you, and what you would have to deal with
> in the morning.??I know on IRC you queried me and asked me to weigh
> in.??You are a stronger man than I, because I saw the mess, and was
> like "I don't have the will to deal with this", and buried myself in
> code.??(I've also been traveling and availability of my email has
> been
> sporadic).??I apologize, to fauno especially, that I didn't really
> contribute to the discussion until after the dust had somewhat
> settled.
> 
> This is one mega-email that responds to a bunch of things that have
> been said.
> 
> ----
> 
> The server purchasing decisions were being had by only 2 members of
> the Parabola community (gaming4jc and emulatorman), plus fauno and
> Tiberiu on the receiving end of the requests.
> 
> ? https://share.riseup.net/#bZqxbeJ5xair5HlVOk-Afw
> 
> While I understand, and am a fan of, the "you don't need to ask for
> permission to get things done" aspect of Adhocracy, given the size of
> Parabola's developer community, and that the costs of the server were
> a fairly substantial part of Parabola's funds, it absolutely was a
> mistake to not have this discussion with more members of the
> community.
> 
> It is debatable whether it should have been totally public on dev@,
> but it should have happened in view of more than 3 people with
> @parabola.nu emails.
> 
> To be clear, I 100% DO NOT blame Ceata or Tiberiu for this; the
> members of the Parabola developer community who engaged in this
> discussion are to blame.??Our charter with Ceata specifies a single
> community delegate to interface with, and that is what they did.
> Responsibility for proper involvement of the community falls on the
> delegate's side of that contract.
> 
> I suppose that means that fauno shares a part of the blame, for not
> saying "hey, we should be having this conversation with more people,"
> but that is a very, *very*, small part of the blame; those trying to
> use the community's funds without first discussing it with the entire
> community are the ones truly to blame.
> 
> Beyond a vague awareness that a build server was being acquired, I
> had
> no knowledge of the details of it; and I believe that this was true
> for most of the Parabola developer community.??We should not have
> been
> kept in the dark.??If I were Emulatorman, this is where I would
> condescendingly link to the "cliques" section of the Adhocracy
> article.
> 
> From: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>
> Message-Id: <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26 at riseup.net>
> > If it isn't possible, then we should open a legal entity (eg.
> > offshore)
> 
> (to pick one sentence to quote)
> 
> Look, handing money to someone is easy.??But then governments get
> involved because taxes, and everything gets complicated.??Even if it
> "should" be simple.
> 
> Half of the things you've suggested are "probably technically tax
> fraud (ask a lawyer!), but you'd probably get away with it."??When
> dealing with governments and taxes and non-profit/not-for-profit
> status, shit gets painful.??That's just a fact of life.
> 
> When companies do crazy shit like setting up wholly owned
> subsidiaries
> in off-shore tax havens and whatnot, it's made possible/legal by a
> high-powered, high-paid, lawyer (or, more likely, a team of them!),
> whose salary is less than the crazy-large amount of money being
> saved.
> They essentially get an economy of scale.??Unless we somehow find
> ourselves in a situation where we are overflowing with enough money
> to
> retain a lawyer, then going down this path is going down the path of
> "accidentally committing tax fraud, and hoping we get away with it."
> 
> I volunteer with a local high-school robotics team.??They build a
> robot every year, and take it to competitions.??When there's a part
> that we indisputably need, has an established and accepted price, and
> an universally agreed upon vendor, we STILL have to go through a
> process.
> 
> What I saw of the records of emails that I've been shown, the process
> with Ceata was NOTHING unusual.
> 
> From: Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info>
> Message-Id: <1491599607.2564.0 at plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
> > Le jeu. 6 avril 2017 ? 12:51, fauno a ?crit :
> > > then i'm invited to a tox channel where i read some people
> > > basically
> > > think ceata and tct are keeping the money for themselves and
> > > their
> > > task is to recover it, given their "unwillingness" to make
> > > expenses on
> > > our behalf, which i found ridiculous. i mention it looks like a
> > > coup,
> > > since it's a secret meeting to form a consensus out of reach from
> > > the
> > > whole community.
> > 
> > did anyone mention FUD? Beware the sarcasm in my reply...
> > 
> > so they wanted to form a consensus that wasn't a real consensus,
> > how would that even work fauno?
> > 
> > on what universe does a coup consist of organizing around making
> > Parabola development more lively and sustainable for more
> > developers,
> 
> In the same universe where a discussion among 3 members of the
> community on various private forums forces the entire community to
> have severed relations with their fiscal sponsor.
> 
> Beside the pad, there were various other private communications to
> various other members of the community, that are perhaps best
> described as "indented, at least in part, to plant the seeds of doubt
> and mistrust toward Ceata, and toward fauno."
> 
> > then writing a pad whereby interested hackers brainstorm their
> > ideas
> > to be posted for public opinion? perhaps Mr. Adhocracy wanted us to
> > ask him for his blessing before we got into a pad. also, this
> > wouldn't
> > have been the first time things are put together in "private" group
> > conversations and collaboration pads before they reach the mailing
> > lists, but whatever, welcome to coup #437 everybody!
> 
> Yeah, 'cause those start on IRC, and if not, are quickly opened to
> the
> entire community.??Most of the community didn't even know that the
> pad
> existed, or that there was *any* issue or concerns regarding funds
> and
> Ceata until after ?7 had been invoked.
> 
> That's a coup.
> 
> From: Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info>
> Message-Id: <1491673595.1506.0 at plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
> > I truly suspect fauno gave you [Tiberiu] his lopsided rundown in
> > private before you replied to this thread,
> 
> Tiberiu was witnessed much more of this "first hand" than I did, but
> the "rundown" that fauno gave me was not a rundown at all--he pretty
> transparently gave me (overwhelmed me) with complete transcripts.
> 
> Isaac, I suspect you are more the victim of a lopsided rundown than
> Tiberiu is.??I don't know which things you saw, but there was much
> more communication than what you witnessed on the pad.
> 
> From: Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info>
> Message-Id: <1491605908.2564.1 at plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
> > I hope you aren't implying that some of our most active
> > contributors are selfish brats for the sin of wanting to
> > actually benefit from donations. that would be on a whole new
> > level of nonsense.
> 
> Ah yes, because being a prolific developer makes one's behavior
> beyond
> reproach.??If he were on the other side of the issue, this is where I
> believe that Emulatorman would link to the "Overview" of the
> Adhocracy
> article, mostly intending to the invoke the bit about the difference
> between Adhocracy and Meritocracy.
> 
> Maybe moving away from Ceata is the right decision.??I don't think it
> is, but I don't know.??It should have been discussed by the
> community.
> It was really shitty of Emulatorman, g4jc, et al. to have forced the
> issue the way they did.
> 
> From: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>
> Message-Id: <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc at riseup.net>
> > i would say that **the community is its pillar** and not a single
> > person because AFAIK Parabola isn't based on **Meritocracy**, but
> > **Adhocracy**.
> 
> No. Shut up.??fauno is a pillar of the community.??This is a fact.
> 
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pillar_of_the_community
> > Noun
> > ?pillar of the community (plural pillars of the community)
> > 
> > ? 1. A prominent member or supporter of a particular community.
> 
> From: Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>
> Message-Id: <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc at riseup.net>
> > I suggest read "Overview" in Adhocracy article for further details
> > [0]
> > 
> > [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy#Overview
> 
> I suggest you re-read the section on cliques.??While I support many
> of
> the purchasing decisions that I've tried to use the Ceata-held funds
> for (now that I know about them), these were being made out of view
> of
> the community.??Not being blessed with getting Cc'ed on your emails
> meant to everyone else "that their participation is not welcome".
> Discussions happening away from public spaces mean that "what is
> happening in the group is a partial assessment does not include those
> that are not."
> 
> From: Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org>
> Message-ID: <5ebb8582-565c-26aa-1f3d-928908e0d72c at openmailbox.org>
> > On 04/07/2017 09:37 PM, hellekin wrote:
> > > I had a conversation with fauno.??I'm very disappointed at how
> > > things
> > > were (mis)handled and I am quite upset.
> > 
> > It's also nice that you had a conversation with fauno without
> > discussing it publicly.??If the community wants to split, so be it.
> 
> I assume that hellekin's private communication with fauno began much
> the same as mine did:
> 
> ? <lukeshu> hey
> ? <fauno>???hey
> ? <lukeshu> So I guess I've been oblivious to some drama about access
> ????????????to donations?
> ? <fauno>???yes
> ? <fauno>???what have you heard?
> 
> That is: It happened in response to other private communication.
> 
> ----
> 
> Even if everything with the build server does work out, and we get
> the
> server worked out in Uruguay; Ceata generously offered to allow us to
> co-locate a server in their datacenter for free (and the server would
> be acquired much more cost-effectively than shipping one to Uruguay).
> Remember how the build-server plan I posted on the 31st involved 2
> servers???Beside the all of the community and relationships stuff,
> I'm
> pissed that the behavior of members of our community screwed us out
> of
> a 2nd bare-metal server.??Shit, even before they pushed Ceata to walk
> away, they rejected the offer for the co-located server.??That was a
> great offer!??Why did only 2 members of the community get to weigh in
> on it!?
> 
> ----
> 
> Of the things I've gotten upset about with Parabola in the recent
> past, it has all been because of lack of communication/documentation.
> Adhocracy means that you can just do things, and don't have to waste
> time discussing it first.??However, for the community to survive,
> things need to be discussable; when you do something, you need to
> write down why you did it, and make it visible for critique, and
> correction.
> 
> For decisions involving how to use the community's funds, maybe that
> means pasting a transcript of an IRC conversation to the
> mailing list, or a wiki page.
> 
> Just about every time you run 'sudo' on one of the servers, that
> should probably be an email.
> 
> We need to be more aggressive about documenting and making public
> what
> we do.

I'm just a newbie. I only used Parabola for a few weeks now, but I've
been following this first-hand from the beginning and it makes me sad
to see how overly over-complicated some people are making this. I can
only speak for myself. But all this started out in the spirit of hope.
How to make life easier for the full-time devs. How to get a build-
server that is not in the hands of 'random people' somewhere (for
security reasons) which I myself find very senseable. No one but the
devs should have access to something that important as a build-server.
That's just my opinion. When I look at the list over kernel-building, I
do not find it strange at all that the person(s) in question want to
make both life and the kernel-building easier for himself/themselves.
Likewise I do not find it at all that strange that a brainstorming
starts somewhere, or among those in question. In this brainstorming the
flow of money were mentioned; if there could be some easier way to use
the donations; if one could somehow start a shop, selling t-shirts,
cups, stickers, give support and other services. In my perseption all
this was in the good spirit of hope and for the purpose of Parabola and
free software. I have not exprerienced any ungratefulness towards any
persons, nor towards Ceata. I don't understand those who's taking the
personal turn here. It's not about persons at all. Asking questions
about how to do things differently is neither critique nor a coup (per
def. a sudden, violent and illegal seizure of power). A coup requires a
king, a pope or some other body of exclusive authority (which I thought
Parabola didn't have). But it seems like I'm wrong about that. And it's
a great pleassure being proved wrong. It makes it easier to choose.

When I came to Parabola I was welcomed with open arms, and I've never
met so much support, understanding and help using any other distro. My
learning curve has gone through the roof after starting with Parabola.
To that I'm extremely grateful. And for me, as a donator, I myself was
very curious to how to donate so that I could be sure that the donation
came directly into the hands of the devs (without too much
bureaucracy), and if Parabola needs a build-server, how can I
contribute to make that happen? It was also natural for me to think
that if Emulatorman is doing most of the building ATM, perhaps I should
donate directly to him so that the build-server could be in his hands?
I don't find that particularly peculiar at all. 

If Ceata isn't the ultimate choice for efficiency and flow of
donations, one must be allowed to ask questions without people getting
hurt or feel their toes stepped upon (or conspiried against behind
their backs). From what I can see (and I've been following this from
the very beginning), there were only some serious questions asked, and
I find that very natural when it comes to donations, raising money,
promoting Parabola, and making life and development easier for those in
question. 

I think it would be a huge loss for Parabola and the community if
Emulatorman and others leaves Parabola because they didn't find mercy
at the king's feet (why else use words like 'coupe' and 'secret
meetings'?). If the brainstorming and the looking for answers by
youngsters is too revolutionary and looked upon as a coup, then someone
is has grown too proud and too old. I'm discussed by the personal
attacks in here when it in fact should be about ideas, development,
safety, security and how new forces can contribute in the best way
possible - to make Parabola even greater than it already is, whether
it's money, donations, efficiency, devices, servers and what else is
needed. And as far as I can see, no decisions were made on behalf of
the community as a whole. It was all ideas, a brainstorm, except
perhaps that Emulatorman would ease his life and work with a build-
server - which he should be applauded for taking the initiative for. 

We all make mistakes and perhaps use words and terms we might regret,
but moving Parabola forward, looking for easier ways to both donate,
handle donations, promote and build Parabola is not a mistake. Perhaps
it's time for peace and to role up our sleeves and contribute to make
Parabola the best distro in history! Together. 

SR
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From srw at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 10 14:59:45 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar Wangberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 16:59:45 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2017-05-01] Emulatorman's expulsion
In-Reply-To: <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <1491836385.1042.6.camel@openmailbox.org>

I don't think you've got anything to apologize for. It would be a great
loss for Parabola if you leave. You should be rewarded for your efforts
and ideas and your work with Parabola, like everyone else developing
and working with and for Parabola. (So who's maintaining the kernels
now?)


ma., 10.04.2017 kl. 13.02 +0000, skrev Andr? Silva:
> Hi guys, since there was a lot of misunderstanding about the previous
> discussion [0], i would share in details a private conversation
> between
> fauno, the involved Parabola devs and me after the pad. Therefore, if
> i'm to blame for all of it, then i would give the decision in the
> hands
> of the community to decide my expulsion or still wish to stay in
> Parabola, since it could be the best way to solve this issue inside
> our
> community, therefore I won't respond more emails of this consensus.
> 
> In the private email, g4jc and me were explaining the details and
> reasons about that pad, Ceata, Roumania and my proposal about open a
> legal entity (offshore). [1]
> 
> I should very much like to clear up that i never had plans to make
> "Tax
> evasion? without the devs declaring gains in their residential
> countries. In one of those emails i put the following:
> 
> "Obviously, if we use only offshore without a way to declare and pay
> fees and taxes in our residence countries when the money is arrived
> ?in
> our hands?, it is considered ?Tax evasion?. Although numbers are
> difficult to ascertain, it is widely believed that individuals in
> wealthy nations unlawfully evade tax through not declaring gains made
> by
> offshore vehicles that they own."
> 
> Some of our devs were interested about offer Services (technical
> support, pentesting) and a WebStore to receive money and go toward
> Parabola developers, as a way to pay their bills, food, inside
> Parabola,
> otherwise a certain percentage go to Parabola project.
> 
> Those "secret meetings" were a proposal made by me to suggest them
> prepare and fulfil their ideas before begin the consensus inside
> Parabola, to the community make a decision under consensus. More
> details
> about another things you can read in that private email [1]
> 
> Afterall, maybe is it my fault? yes or no? i don't know, i prefer
> keep
> this decision for the community since it is its distro, not mine.
> 
> If i should be kick off from Parabola, no problem i will accept it
> and
> i'll bring the happy memories in Parabola, without exceptions, devs
> and
> users, in short, the community! Therefore and independent of the
> consensus decision, i would to thank God, all devs, users and all
> people
> for all, no matter our differences. If i made mistakes or bother you,
> i'm so sorry!
> 
> BTW, don't fight between yourself for my fault, i wish you join
> forces
> to go ahead together since Parabola is a wonderful distro and it need
> fight for the freedom for its community!
> 
> Someday ago, i remembered about user that said me "Is it a bird? a
> plane? It's Emulatorman", i would respond him "Thanks, but i'm not a
> hero, i'm as mortal as anyone else, full of defects, I'm just a
> human,
> not a machine."
> 
> Sincerely,
> Andr?.
> 
> [0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004848.html
> [1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/parabola-emails/private_conversati
> on.txt?noredirect
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 10 15:49:20 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 12:49:20 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2017-05-01] Emulatorman's expulsion
In-Reply-To: <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <6c39ffb6-3c7c-8c78-6700-2b385f13772d@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

My answer will be simple: you have done a lot for Parabola and its
community, you deserve more than being expulsed. The Parabola project
depends on all its hackers, from the artists to the packagers.

El 10/04/17 a las 10:02, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> Hi guys, since there was a lot of misunderstanding about the
> previous discussion [0], i would share in details a private
> conversation between fauno, the involved Parabola devs and me after
> the pad. Therefore, if i'm to blame for all of it, then i would
> give the decision in the hands of the community to decide my
> expulsion or still wish to stay in Parabola, since it could be the
> best way to solve this issue inside our community, therefore I
> won't respond more emails of this consensus.
> 
> In the private email, g4jc and me were explaining the details and 
> reasons about that pad, Ceata, Roumania and my proposal about open
> a legal entity (offshore). [1]
> 
> I should very much like to clear up that i never had plans to make
> "Tax evasion? without the devs declaring gains in their
> residential countries. In one of those emails i put the following:
> 
> "Obviously, if we use only offshore without a way to declare and
> pay fees and taxes in our residence countries when the money is
> arrived ?in our hands?, it is considered ?Tax evasion?. Although
> numbers are difficult to ascertain, it is widely believed that
> individuals in wealthy nations unlawfully evade tax through not
> declaring gains made by offshore vehicles that they own."
> 
> Some of our devs were interested about offer Services (technical 
> support, pentesting) and a WebStore to receive money and go toward 
> Parabola developers, as a way to pay their bills, food, inside
> Parabola, otherwise a certain percentage go to Parabola project.
> 
> Those "secret meetings" were a proposal made by me to suggest them 
> prepare and fulfil their ideas before begin the consensus inside 
> Parabola, to the community make a decision under consensus. More
> details about another things you can read in that private email
> [1]
> 
> Afterall, maybe is it my fault? yes or no? i don't know, i prefer
> keep this decision for the community since it is its distro, not
> mine.
> 
> If i should be kick off from Parabola, no problem i will accept it
> and i'll bring the happy memories in Parabola, without exceptions,
> devs and users, in short, the community! Therefore and independent
> of the consensus decision, i would to thank God, all devs, users
> and all people for all, no matter our differences. If i made
> mistakes or bother you, i'm so sorry!
> 
> BTW, don't fight between yourself for my fault, i wish you join
> forces to go ahead together since Parabola is a wonderful distro
> and it need fight for the freedom for its community!
> 
> Someday ago, i remembered about user that said me "Is it a bird? a 
> plane? It's Emulatorman", i would respond him "Thanks, but i'm not
> a hero, i'm as mortal as anyone else, full of defects, I'm just a
> human, not a machine."
> 
> Sincerely, Andr?.
> 
> [0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004848.html 
> [1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/parabola-emails/private_conversatio
n.txt?noredirect
>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox:
EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA
3791
GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From srw at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 10 16:31:19 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar Wangberg)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 18:31:19 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2017-05-01] Emulatorman's expulsion
In-Reply-To: <6c39ffb6-3c7c-8c78-6700-2b385f13772d@openmailbox.org>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
 <6c39ffb6-3c7c-8c78-6700-2b385f13772d@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1491841879.3780.2.camel@openmailbox.org>

ma., 10.04.2017 kl. 12.49 -0300, skrev Megver83:
> My answer will be simple: you have done a lot for Parabola and its
> community, you deserve more than being expulsed. The Parabola project
> depends on all its hackers, from the artists to the packagers.

+1
> 
> El 10/04/17 a las 10:02, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> > Hi guys, since there was a lot of misunderstanding about the
> > previous discussion [0], i would share in details a private
> > conversation between fauno, the involved Parabola devs and me after
> > the pad. Therefore, if i'm to blame for all of it, then i would
> > give the decision in the hands of the community to decide my
> > expulsion or still wish to stay in Parabola, since it could be the
> > best way to solve this issue inside our community, therefore I
> > won't respond more emails of this consensus.
> > 
> > In the private email, g4jc and me were explaining the details and?
> > reasons about that pad, Ceata, Roumania and my proposal about open
> > a legal entity (offshore). [1]
> > 
> > I should very much like to clear up that i never had plans to make
> > "Tax evasion? without the devs declaring gains in their
> > residential countries. In one of those emails i put the following:
> > 
> > "Obviously, if we use only offshore without a way to declare and
> > pay fees and taxes in our residence countries when the money is
> > arrived ?in our hands?, it is considered ?Tax evasion?. Although
> > numbers are difficult to ascertain, it is widely believed that
> > individuals in wealthy nations unlawfully evade tax through not
> > declaring gains made by offshore vehicles that they own."
> > 
> > Some of our devs were interested about offer Services (technical?
> > support, pentesting) and a WebStore to receive money and go toward?
> > Parabola developers, as a way to pay their bills, food, inside
> > Parabola, otherwise a certain percentage go to Parabola project.
> > 
> > Those "secret meetings" were a proposal made by me to suggest them?
> > prepare and fulfil their ideas before begin the consensus inside?
> > Parabola, to the community make a decision under consensus. More
> > details about another things you can read in that private email
> > [1]
> > 
> > Afterall, maybe is it my fault? yes or no? i don't know, i prefer
> > keep this decision for the community since it is its distro, not
> > mine.
> > 
> > If i should be kick off from Parabola, no problem i will accept it
> > and i'll bring the happy memories in Parabola, without exceptions,
> > devs and users, in short, the community! Therefore and independent
> > of the consensus decision, i would to thank God, all devs, users
> > and all people for all, no matter our differences. If i made
> > mistakes or bother you, i'm so sorry!
> > 
> > BTW, don't fight between yourself for my fault, i wish you join
> > forces to go ahead together since Parabola is a wonderful distro
> > and it need fight for the freedom for its community!
> > 
> > Someday ago, i remembered about user that said me "Is it a bird? a?
> > plane? It's Emulatorman", i would respond him "Thanks, but i'm not
> > a hero, i'm as mortal as anyone else, full of defects, I'm just a
> > human, not a machine."
> > 
> > Sincerely, Andr?.
> > 
> > [0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004848.html?
> > [1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/parabola-emails/private_conversa
> > tio
> 
> n.txt?noredirect
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list?
> > Dev at lists.parabola.nu?
> > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From jorginho at riseup.net  Mon Apr 10 20:21:53 2017
From: jorginho at riseup.net (Jorginho)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 22:21:53 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2017-05-01] Emulatorman's expulsion
In-Reply-To: <1491841879.3780.2.camel@openmailbox.org>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
 <6c39ffb6-3c7c-8c78-6700-2b385f13772d@openmailbox.org>
 <1491841879.3780.2.camel@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <6d0714f0-d81a-2511-168b-ae265f34daa6@riseup.net>

I think that you have done a lot of for Parabola GNU/Linux-libre, nights
without sleep compiling packages and creating new packages. Sincerely, I
think that Parabola would not exist now if you had not worked hard all
this time. If you decided to go out and colaborate with other distro or
create a new one I will go with you because I like your way of thinking
and doing.


El 10/04/17 a las 18:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
> ma., 10.04.2017 kl. 12.49 -0300, skrev Megver83:
>> My answer will be simple: you have done a lot for Parabola and its
>> community, you deserve more than being expulsed. The Parabola project
>> depends on all its hackers, from the artists to the packagers.
> +1
>> El 10/04/17 a las 10:02, Andr? Silva escribi?:
>>> Hi guys, since there was a lot of misunderstanding about the
>>> previous discussion [0], i would share in details a private
>>> conversation between fauno, the involved Parabola devs and me after
>>> the pad. Therefore, if i'm to blame for all of it, then i would
>>> give the decision in the hands of the community to decide my
>>> expulsion or still wish to stay in Parabola, since it could be the
>>> best way to solve this issue inside our community, therefore I
>>> won't respond more emails of this consensus.
>>>
>>> In the private email, g4jc and me were explaining the details and 
>>> reasons about that pad, Ceata, Roumania and my proposal about open
>>> a legal entity (offshore). [1]
>>>
>>> I should very much like to clear up that i never had plans to make
>>> "Tax evasion? without the devs declaring gains in their
>>> residential countries. In one of those emails i put the following:
>>>
>>> "Obviously, if we use only offshore without a way to declare and
>>> pay fees and taxes in our residence countries when the money is
>>> arrived ?in our hands?, it is considered ?Tax evasion?. Although
>>> numbers are difficult to ascertain, it is widely believed that
>>> individuals in wealthy nations unlawfully evade tax through not
>>> declaring gains made by offshore vehicles that they own."
>>>
>>> Some of our devs were interested about offer Services (technical 
>>> support, pentesting) and a WebStore to receive money and go toward 
>>> Parabola developers, as a way to pay their bills, food, inside
>>> Parabola, otherwise a certain percentage go to Parabola project.
>>>
>>> Those "secret meetings" were a proposal made by me to suggest them 
>>> prepare and fulfil their ideas before begin the consensus inside 
>>> Parabola, to the community make a decision under consensus. More
>>> details about another things you can read in that private email
>>> [1]
>>>
>>> Afterall, maybe is it my fault? yes or no? i don't know, i prefer
>>> keep this decision for the community since it is its distro, not
>>> mine.
>>>
>>> If i should be kick off from Parabola, no problem i will accept it
>>> and i'll bring the happy memories in Parabola, without exceptions,
>>> devs and users, in short, the community! Therefore and independent
>>> of the consensus decision, i would to thank God, all devs, users
>>> and all people for all, no matter our differences. If i made
>>> mistakes or bother you, i'm so sorry!
>>>
>>> BTW, don't fight between yourself for my fault, i wish you join
>>> forces to go ahead together since Parabola is a wonderful distro
>>> and it need fight for the freedom for its community!
>>>
>>> Someday ago, i remembered about user that said me "Is it a bird? a 
>>> plane? It's Emulatorman", i would respond him "Thanks, but i'm not
>>> a hero, i'm as mortal as anyone else, full of defects, I'm just a
>>> human, not a machine."
>>>
>>> Sincerely, Andr?.
>>>
>>> [0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004848.html 
>>> [1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/parabola-emails/private_conversa
>>> tio
>> n.txt?noredirect
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
>>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dev mailing list
>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dev mailing list
>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

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From aurelien at hackers.camp  Tue Apr 11 12:35:53 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 14:35:53 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2017-05-01] Emulatorman's expulsion
In-Reply-To: <6d0714f0-d81a-2511-168b-ae265f34daa6@riseup.net>
 (jorginho@riseup.net's message of "Mon, 10 Apr 2017 22:21:53 +0200")
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
 <6c39ffb6-3c7c-8c78-6700-2b385f13772d@openmailbox.org>
 <1491841879.3780.2.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <6d0714f0-d81a-2511-168b-ae265f34daa6@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <87shlfm89i.fsf@hackers.camp>

>>> El 10/04/17 a las 10:02, Andr? Silva escribi?:
>>>> Hi guys, since there was a lot of misunderstanding about the
>>>> previous discussion [0], i would share in details a private
>>>> conversation between fauno, the involved Parabola devs and me after
>>>> the pad. Therefore, if i'm to blame for all of it, then i would
>>>> give the decision in the hands of the community to decide my
>>>> expulsion or still wish to stay in Parabola, since it could be the
>>>> best way to solve this issue inside our community, therefore I
>>>> won't respond more emails of this consensus.
>>>>
>>>> In the private email, g4jc and me were explaining the details and 
>>>> reasons about that pad, Ceata, Roumania and my proposal about open
>>>> a legal entity (offshore). [1]
>>>>
>>>> I should very much like to clear up that i never had plans to make
>>>> "Tax evasion? without the devs declaring gains in their
>>>> residential countries. In one of those emails i put the following:
>>>>
>>>> "Obviously, if we use only offshore without a way to declare and
>>>> pay fees and taxes in our residence countries when the money is
>>>> arrived ?in our hands?, it is considered ?Tax evasion?. Although
>>>> numbers are difficult to ascertain, it is widely believed that
>>>> individuals in wealthy nations unlawfully evade tax through not
>>>> declaring gains made by offshore vehicles that they own."
>>>>
>>>> Some of our devs were interested about offer Services (technical 
>>>> support, pentesting) and a WebStore to receive money and go toward 
>>>> Parabola developers, as a way to pay their bills, food, inside
>>>> Parabola, otherwise a certain percentage go to Parabola project.
>>>>
>>>> Those "secret meetings" were a proposal made by me to suggest them 
>>>> prepare and fulfil their ideas before begin the consensus inside 
>>>> Parabola, to the community make a decision under consensus. More
>>>> details about another things you can read in that private email
>>>> [1]
>>>>
>>>> Afterall, maybe is it my fault? yes or no? i don't know, i prefer
>>>> keep this decision for the community since it is its distro, not
>>>> mine.
>>>>
>>>> If i should be kick off from Parabola, no problem i will accept it
>>>> and i'll bring the happy memories in Parabola, without exceptions,
>>>> devs and users, in short, the community! Therefore and independent
>>>> of the consensus decision, i would to thank God, all devs, users
>>>> and all people for all, no matter our differences. If i made
>>>> mistakes or bother you, i'm so sorry!
>>>>
>>>> BTW, don't fight between yourself for my fault, i wish you join
>>>> forces to go ahead together since Parabola is a wonderful distro
>>>> and it need fight for the freedom for its community!
>>>>
>>>> Someday ago, i remembered about user that said me "Is it a bird? a 
>>>> plane? It's Emulatorman", i would respond him "Thanks, but i'm not
>>>> a hero, i'm as mortal as anyone else, full of defects, I'm just a
>>>> human, not a machine."
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely, Andr?.
>>>>
>>>> [0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004848.html 
>>>> [1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/parabola-emails/private_conversa
>>>> tion.txt?noredirect
Jorginho <jorginho at riseup.net> writes:
> I think that you have done a lot of for Parabola GNU/Linux-libre, nights
> without sleep compiling packages and creating new packages. Sincerely, I
> think that Parabola would not exist now if you had not worked hard all
> this time. If you decided to go out and colaborate with other distro or
> create a new one I will go with you because I like your way of thinking
> and doing.
>
> El 10/04/17 a las 18:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
>> ma., 10.04.2017 kl. 12.49 -0300, skrev Megver83:
>>> My answer will be simple: you have done a lot for Parabola and its
>>> community, you deserve more than being expulsed. The Parabola project
>>> depends on all its hackers, from the artists to the packagers.
>> +1

That is disturbing, but, that is not the thing that disturb me.

You are Human and by the way you can comit fault.

`But in that hundred of lines I do not read the part of your excuse to
fauno.`

For that, and the secret society you have create rejecting thus who
don't care of money from the choice and orientation of the project, that
is difficult to consider you as a good Human but a good manipulator.

You do a lot for the project, from technical to much more, but does that
mean it give right to you to decide for all and manipulate people?

As I told you, but you just want to see the point, share the building
kernel pack with a new incomer and get time to find your way in the
project would be welcome.

Kind regards

Aur?lien DESBRI?RES


From srw at openmailbox.org  Tue Apr 11 16:50:19 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar Wangberg)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 18:50:19 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2017-05-01] Emulatorman's expulsion
In-Reply-To: <87shlfm89i.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
 <6c39ffb6-3c7c-8c78-6700-2b385f13772d@openmailbox.org>
 <1491841879.3780.2.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <6d0714f0-d81a-2511-168b-ae265f34daa6@riseup.net>
 <87shlfm89i.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <1491929419.1029.1.camel@openmailbox.org>

ti., 11.04.2017 kl. 14.35 +0200, skrev aurelien:
> > > > El 10/04/17 a las 10:02, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> > > > > Hi guys, since there was a lot of misunderstanding about the
> > > > > previous discussion [0], i would share in details a private
> > > > > conversation between fauno, the involved Parabola devs and me
> > > > > after
> > > > > the pad. Therefore, if i'm to blame for all of it, then i
> > > > > would
> > > > > give the decision in the hands of the community to decide my
> > > > > expulsion or still wish to stay in Parabola, since it could
> > > > > be the
> > > > > best way to solve this issue inside our community, therefore
> > > > > I
> > > > > won't respond more emails of this consensus.
> > > > > 
> > > > > In the private email, g4jc and me were explaining the details
> > > > > and?
> > > > > reasons about that pad, Ceata, Roumania and my proposal about
> > > > > open
> > > > > a legal entity (offshore). [1]
> > > > > 
> > > > > I should very much like to clear up that i never had plans to
> > > > > make
> > > > > "Tax evasion? without the devs declaring gains in their
> > > > > residential countries. In one of those emails i put the
> > > > > following:
> > > > > 
> > > > > "Obviously, if we use only offshore without a way to declare
> > > > > and
> > > > > pay fees and taxes in our residence countries when the money
> > > > > is
> > > > > arrived ?in our hands?, it is considered ?Tax evasion?.
> > > > > Although
> > > > > numbers are difficult to ascertain, it is widely believed
> > > > > that
> > > > > individuals in wealthy nations unlawfully evade tax through
> > > > > not
> > > > > declaring gains made by offshore vehicles that they own."
> > > > > 
> > > > > Some of our devs were interested about offer Services
> > > > > (technical?
> > > > > support, pentesting) and a WebStore to receive money and go
> > > > > toward?
> > > > > Parabola developers, as a way to pay their bills, food,
> > > > > inside
> > > > > Parabola, otherwise a certain percentage go to Parabola
> > > > > project.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Those "secret meetings" were a proposal made by me to suggest
> > > > > them?
> > > > > prepare and fulfil their ideas before begin the consensus
> > > > > inside?
> > > > > Parabola, to the community make a decision under consensus.
> > > > > More
> > > > > details about another things you can read in that private
> > > > > email
> > > > > [1]
> > > > > 
> > > > > Afterall, maybe is it my fault? yes or no? i don't know, i
> > > > > prefer
> > > > > keep this decision for the community since it is its distro,
> > > > > not
> > > > > mine.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If i should be kick off from Parabola, no problem i will
> > > > > accept it
> > > > > and i'll bring the happy memories in Parabola, without
> > > > > exceptions,
> > > > > devs and users, in short, the community! Therefore and
> > > > > independent
> > > > > of the consensus decision, i would to thank God, all devs,
> > > > > users
> > > > > and all people for all, no matter our differences. If i made
> > > > > mistakes or bother you, i'm so sorry!
> > > > > 
> > > > > BTW, don't fight between yourself for my fault, i wish you
> > > > > join
> > > > > forces to go ahead together since Parabola is a wonderful
> > > > > distro
> > > > > and it need fight for the freedom for its community!
> > > > > 
> > > > > Someday ago, i remembered about user that said me "Is it a
> > > > > bird? a?
> > > > > plane? It's Emulatorman", i would respond him "Thanks, but
> > > > > i'm not
> > > > > a hero, i'm as mortal as anyone else, full of defects, I'm
> > > > > just a
> > > > > human, not a machine."
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sincerely, Andr?.
> > > > > 
> > > > > [0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004848
> > > > > .html?
> > > > > [1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/parabola-emails/private_co
> > > > > nversa
> > > > > tion.txt?noredirect
> 
> Jorginho <jorginho at riseup.net> writes:
> > I think that you have done a lot of for Parabola GNU/Linux-libre,
> > nights
> > without sleep compiling packages and creating new packages.
> > Sincerely, I
> > think that Parabola would not exist now if you had not worked hard
> > all
> > this time. If you decided to go out and colaborate with other
> > distro or
> > create a new one I will go with you because I like your way of
> > thinking
> > and doing.
> > 
> > El 10/04/17 a las 18:31, Stig Roar Wangberg escribi?:
> > > ma., 10.04.2017 kl. 12.49 -0300, skrev Megver83:
> > > > My answer will be simple: you have done a lot for Parabola and
> > > > its
> > > > community, you deserve more than being expulsed. The Parabola
> > > > project
> > > > depends on all its hackers, from the artists to the packagers.
> > > 
> > > +1
> 
> That is disturbing, but, that is not the thing that disturb me.
You are disturbing.
> 
> You are Human and by the way you can comit fault.
Like you. And everyone else.
> 
> `But in that hundred of lines I do not read the part of your excuse
> to
> fauno.`
Why should he? Did anyone of you popes ask Emulatorman for fogiveness?

> For that, and the secret society you have create rejecting thus who
> don't care of money from the choice and orientation of the project,
> that
> is difficult to consider you as a good Human but a good manipulator.

Fuck you! On behalf of a good-hearted person: Fuck you! There is no
secret society, and I wonder who is the manipulator here. 
> 
> You do a lot for the project, from technical to much more, but does
> that
> mean it give right to you to decide for all and manipulate people?
Wow, you admit he's a hardworking man that works around the clock for
Parabola? Wow, that must have been hard to bring out! And who is he
manipulating? Is it manipulation to want somethign good for Parabola?
Oh, I see: He didn't ask for the pope's mercy! 
> 
> As I told you, but you just want to see the point, share the building
> kernel pack with a new incomer and get time to find your way in the
> project would be welcome.
> 
> Kind regards

You're everything *but* kind! You're rude and hurting people! To be
honest, I hope Emulatorman and all the hardworking devs leave! You
don't deserve him. 

I for one had enough of this shit! I'm def. out of here!


> 
> Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Tue Apr 11 19:33:32 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 15:33:32 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <1491834178.1042.2.camel@openmailbox.org>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <1491834178.1042.2.camel@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87tw5urb77.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:22:58 -0400,
Stig Roar Wangberg wrote:
>                if one could somehow start a shop, selling t-shirts,
> cups, stickers,

To be clear, I want such a shop to exist.  Not even because of funding
for the project, but because I want to be able to purchase Parabola
t-shirts, cups, and stickers.  I don't even care if the proceeds from
it go to an individual hacker who set up the shop.

Technoethical was selling Parabola stickers at LibrePlanet.  I thought
it was really cool.

>                I have not exprerienced any ungratefulness towards any
> persons, nor towards Ceata. I don't understand those who's taking the
> personal turn here.

This looks really weird to an outsider.  There were a bunch of private
communication that lead up to this point, but it only just now
errupted onto public forums.  So to someone not privy to those private
communications, it looks like a sudden unexpected eruption; but it had
been stewing for a while.

> I think it would be a huge loss for Parabola and the community if
> Emulatorman and others leaves Parabola because they didn't find mercy
> at the king's feet

I agree; I don't want to see Emulatorman or anyone else leave the
community.  But, mistakes were made.  The events that lead to Ceata
(justifiably!) stepping away as our sponsor should have never
happened.  We need to have a real conversation about what went wrong,
and how to make sure that those kinds of mistakes don't happen again.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From aurelien at hackers.camp  Tue Apr 11 19:40:46 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:40:46 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations
In-Reply-To: <87tw5urb77.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> (Luke Shumaker's message of
 "Tue, 11 Apr 2017 15:33:32 -0400")
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <1491834178.1042.2.camel@openmailbox.org>
 <87tw5urb77.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <87o9w2n35t.fsf@hackers.camp>

Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> writes:

> On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:22:58 -0400,
> Stig Roar Wangberg wrote:
>>                if one could somehow start a shop, selling t-shirts,
>> cups, stickers,
>
> To be clear, I want such a shop to exist.  Not even because of funding
> for the project, but because I want to be able to purchase Parabola
> t-shirts, cups, and stickers.  I don't even care if the proceeds from
> it go to an individual hacker who set up the shop.
>
> Technoethical was selling Parabola stickers at LibrePlanet.  I thought
> it was really cool.
>
>>                I have not exprerienced any ungratefulness towards any
>> persons, nor towards Ceata. I don't understand those who's taking the
>> personal turn here.
>
> This looks really weird to an outsider.  There were a bunch of private
> communication that lead up to this point, but it only just now
> errupted onto public forums.  So to someone not privy to those private
> communications, it looks like a sudden unexpected eruption; but it had
> been stewing for a while.
>
>> I think it would be a huge loss for Parabola and the community if
>> Emulatorman and others leaves Parabola because they didn't find mercy
>> at the king's feet
>
> I agree; I don't want to see Emulatorman or anyone else leave the
> community.  But, mistakes were made.  The events that lead to Ceata
> (justifiably!) stepping away as our sponsor should have never
> happened.  We need to have a real conversation about what went wrong,
> and how to make sure that those kinds of mistakes don't happen again.
+1


From ovruni at gnu.org.pe  Tue Apr 11 21:17:06 2017
From: ovruni at gnu.org.pe (Omar Vega Ramos)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 16:17:06 -0500
Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2017-05-01] Emulatorman's expulsion
In-Reply-To: <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
References: <87y3vdjufz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <b0d4491b-a233-85c5-be85-17d242f3ed26@riseup.net>
 <1491599607.2564.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491673595.1506.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <1491605908.2564.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <6f664041-8d5a-24d6-018d-fe02599b88cc@riseup.net>
 <874lxwsveo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <6dc9591f-32bd-a0af-0ccd-424d94f7e479@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <366fdae7-8158-e3cc-ab23-600b05bf0ea3@gnu.org.pe>

Personally, I think that of Emulatorman's work in the community is very
valuable. From the first moment that I arrived to contribute to Parabola
(year 2012), I have noticed that he has been willing to support new
users, he has spent many nights building packages, even when he has had
health problems he has worried about not leaving the Parabola packages
without maintenance. He has contributed armv7h support, maintains kernel
packages, maintains nonprism repository, maintains ISOs, has helped
generate and translate documentation into Spanish and Portuguese, etc.

For all this I want to say that if he want to continue with another free
software project for the freedom of users, I will be willing to go and
support him in what I can.

El 10/04/17 a las 08:02, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> Hi guys, since there was a lot of misunderstanding about the previous
> discussion [0], i would share in details a private conversation between
> fauno, the involved Parabola devs and me after the pad. Therefore, if
> i'm to blame for all of it, then i would give the decision in the hands
> of the community to decide my expulsion or still wish to stay in
> Parabola, since it could be the best way to solve this issue inside our
> community, therefore I won't respond more emails of this consensus.
> 
> In the private email, g4jc and me were explaining the details and
> reasons about that pad, Ceata, Roumania and my proposal about open a
> legal entity (offshore). [1]
> 
> I should very much like to clear up that i never had plans to make "Tax
> evasion? without the devs declaring gains in their residential
> countries. In one of those emails i put the following:
> 
> "Obviously, if we use only offshore without a way to declare and pay
> fees and taxes in our residence countries when the money is arrived ?in
> our hands?, it is considered ?Tax evasion?. Although numbers are
> difficult to ascertain, it is widely believed that individuals in
> wealthy nations unlawfully evade tax through not declaring gains made by
> offshore vehicles that they own."
> 
> Some of our devs were interested about offer Services (technical
> support, pentesting) and a WebStore to receive money and go toward
> Parabola developers, as a way to pay their bills, food, inside Parabola,
> otherwise a certain percentage go to Parabola project.
> 
> Those "secret meetings" were a proposal made by me to suggest them
> prepare and fulfil their ideas before begin the consensus inside
> Parabola, to the community make a decision under consensus. More details
> about another things you can read in that private email [1]
> 
> Afterall, maybe is it my fault? yes or no? i don't know, i prefer keep
> this decision for the community since it is its distro, not mine.
> 
> If i should be kick off from Parabola, no problem i will accept it and
> i'll bring the happy memories in Parabola, without exceptions, devs and
> users, in short, the community! Therefore and independent of the
> consensus decision, i would to thank God, all devs, users and all people
> for all, no matter our differences. If i made mistakes or bother you,
> i'm so sorry!
> 
> BTW, don't fight between yourself for my fault, i wish you join forces
> to go ahead together since Parabola is a wonderful distro and it need
> fight for the freedom for its community!
> 
> Someday ago, i remembered about user that said me "Is it a bird? a
> plane? It's Emulatorman", i would respond him "Thanks, but i'm not a
> hero, i'm as mortal as anyone else, full of defects, I'm just a human,
> not a machine."
> 
> Sincerely,
> Andr?.
> 
> [0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004848.html
> [1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/parabola-emails/private_conversation.txt?noredirect
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

-- 
Omar Vega Ramos
GPG ID: 6D5DBA58


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Wed Apr 12 01:08:25 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:08:25 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Source tarballs
Message-ID: <87pogiqvp2.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Hey,

I'm working on having libremakepkg produce sourceballs.  I was
wondering if anyone had strong opinions about regular-sourceballs
(`--source`) vs all-sourceballs (`--allsource`).  Perhaps having both
with different extensions (what extension would be used other than
`.src.tar.xz`?).

Also, if anyone has opinions about sourceballs appearing anywhere
other than $SRCPOOL (https://repo.parabola.nu/sources/parabola).  I'm
somewhat attracted to the idea of them appearing along side the
package files (`.pkg.tar.xz`) in the repo directories.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From nospam at curso.re  Wed Apr 12 14:19:40 2017
From: nospam at curso.re (nospam at curso.re)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:19:40 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Calibre contacts its own servers to check for version updates
 (patch available)
Message-ID: <87d1chvhc3.fsf@example.com>

Hi all,

I'm posting from gmane, I hope this is OK.

The Calibre Ebook manager (calibre package) has code to contact the
calibre servers (https://code.calibre-ebook.com/latest) to check for
version updates.

I think that this is

1. redundant since calibre is installed from Parabola
2. a privacy issue since the app pokes an external server in a somewhat
   opaque way

Although the option to check for updates can be turned off (Ctrl-P ->
Behavior -> "Show notification when new package available"), it's on by
default an most users may not know about it.

I have a couple of patches that remove the option from the Calibre UI
and the Python code that contacts the servers (in src/calibre/gui2/)
that I am using to build a modified calibre package off the Parabola
one.

Are you interested in reviewing and possibly integrating them?

Thank you for the hard work you're doing with Parabola!

Best,

-- S.



From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Wed Apr 12 14:31:12 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 10:31:12 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Calibre contacts its own servers to check for version
 updates (patch available)
In-Reply-To: <87d1chvhc3.fsf@example.com>
References: <87d1chvhc3.fsf@example.com>
Message-ID: <87mvblr93j.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 10:19:40 -0400,
nospam at curso.re wrote:
> I'm posting from gmane, I hope this is OK.

Looks good from here.  (Wow, we're on gmane now!?)

> The Calibre Ebook manager (calibre package) has code to contact the
> calibre servers (https://code.calibre-ebook.com/latest) to check for
> version updates.
> 
> I think that this is
> 
> 1. redundant since calibre is installed from Parabola
> 2. a privacy issue since the app pokes an external server in a somewhat
>    opaque way

I agree.

> I have a couple of patches that remove the option from the Calibre UI
> and the Python code that contacts the servers (in src/calibre/gui2/)
> that I am using to build a modified calibre package off the Parabola
> one.
> 
> Are you interested in reviewing and possibly integrating them?

I'm definitely interested in reviewing them.  Though, I'd be a little
surprised if there isn't already a ./configure flag to turn the
behavior off.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From nospam at curso.re  Wed Apr 12 16:36:57 2017
From: nospam at curso.re (nospam at curso.re)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 17:36:57 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Calibre contacts its own servers to check for version
 updates (patch available)
References: <87d1chvhc3.fsf@example.com> <87mvblr93j.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <877f2pfuqe.fsf@example.com>

Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> writes:

> On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 10:19:40 -0400,
> nospam at curso.re wrote:
> [...]
>> Are you interested in reviewing and possibly integrating them?
>
> I'm definitely interested in reviewing them.  Though, I'd be a little
> surprised if there isn't already a ./configure flag to turn the
> behavior off.

Cool, thanks!

Calibre uses a very complicated setup.py and I could not figure out at a
glance whether such features can be turned off.

I will send over another message obtained with git-format-patch then. It
will have to patch files and the required changes to the calibre
PKGBUILD.

As a note, I had to modify the patch once (and once only so far) because
of minor code changes one patched file.

Best,

-- S.



From nospam at curso.re  Wed Apr 12 16:45:02 2017
From: nospam at curso.re (nospam at curso.re)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 17:45:02 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Calibre contacts its own servers to check for version
 updates (patch available)
References: <87d1chvhc3.fsf@example.com> <87mvblr93j.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <877f2pfuqe.fsf@example.com>
Message-ID: <87y3v5efsh.fsf@example.com>

nospam at curso.re writes:

> Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 10:19:40 -0400,
>> nospam at curso.re wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Are you interested in reviewing and possibly integrating them?
>>
>> I'm definitely interested in reviewing them.  Though, I'd be a little
>> surprised if there isn't already a ./configure flag to turn the
>> behavior off.
>
> Cool, thanks!
>
> Calibre uses a very complicated setup.py and I could not figure out at a
> glance whether such features can be turned off.
>
> I will send over another message obtained with git-format-patch then. It
> will have to patch files and the required changes to the calibre
> PKGBUILD.
>
> As a note, I had to modify the patch once (and once only so far) because
> of minor code changes one patched file.
>
> Best,
>
> -- S.

Here it is.

Calibre automatically checks for updates by contacting its own
servers. Although there is a user option to turn this off, we don't need to do
that since calibre is maintained within Parabola.

This commit adds patches that remove the code about updating calibre. The UI
will also not show the option about turning the version check on or off.
---
 ...-that-contacts-calibre-servers-to-check-u.patch | 101 +++++++++++++++++++++
 .../0001-Remove-new_version_notification.patch     |  90 ++++++++++++++++++
 libre/calibre/PKGBUILD                             |  12 ++-
 3 files changed, 201 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
 create mode 100644 libre/calibre/0001-Remove-code-that-contacts-calibre-servers-to-check-u.patch
 create mode 100644 libre/calibre/0001-Remove-new_version_notification.patch

diff --git a/libre/calibre/0001-Remove-code-that-contacts-calibre-servers-to-check-u.patch b/libre/calibre/0001-Remove-code-that-contacts-calibre-servers-to-check-u.patch
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..8993d06a6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/libre/calibre/0001-Remove-code-that-contacts-calibre-servers-to-check-u.patch
@@ -0,0 +1,101 @@
+---
+ src/calibre/gui2/update.py | 56 ++++++----------------------------------------
+ 1 file changed, 7 insertions(+), 49 deletions(-)
+
+diff --git a/src/calibre/gui2/update.py b/src/calibre/gui2/update.py
+index d1ba091373..097312300a 100644
+--- a/src/calibre/gui2/update.py
++++ b/src/calibre/gui2/update.py
+@@ -1,19 +1,17 @@
+ __license__   = 'GPL v3'
+ __copyright__ = '2008, Kovid Goyal <kovid at kovidgoyal.net>'
+ 
+-import re, binascii, cPickle, ssl, json
++import binascii, cPickle
+ from future_builtins import map
+ from threading import Thread, Event
+ 
+ from PyQt5.Qt import (QObject, pyqtSignal, Qt, QUrl, QDialog, QGridLayout,
+-        QLabel, QCheckBox, QDialogButtonBox, QIcon)
++        QLabel, QDialogButtonBox, QIcon)
+ 
+-from calibre.constants import (__appname__, __version__, iswindows, isosx,
+-        isportable, is64bit, numeric_version)
++from calibre.constants import (__appname__, iswindows, isosx,
++        isportable, is64bit)
+ from calibre import prints, as_unicode
+-from calibre.utils.config import prefs
+-from calibre.utils.https import get_https_resource_securely
+-from calibre.gui2 import config, dynamic, open_url
++from calibre.gui2 import dynamic, open_url
+ from calibre.gui2.dialogs.plugin_updater import get_plugin_updates_available
+ 
+ URL = 'https://code.calibre-ebook.com/latest'
+@@ -30,35 +28,7 @@ def get_download_url():
+ 
+ 
+ def get_newest_version():
+-    try:
+-        icon_theme_name = json.loads(I('icon-theme.json', data=True))['name']
+-    except Exception:
+-        icon_theme_name = ''
+-    headers={
+-        'CALIBRE-VERSION':__version__,
+-        'CALIBRE-OS': ('win' if iswindows else 'osx' if isosx else 'oth'),
+-        'CALIBRE-INSTALL-UUID': prefs['installation_uuid'],
+-        'CALIBRE-ICON-THEME': icon_theme_name,
+-    }
+-    try:
+-        version = get_https_resource_securely(URL, headers=headers)
+-    except ssl.SSLError as err:
+-        if getattr(err, 'reason', None) != 'CERTIFICATE_VERIFY_FAILED':
+-            raise
+-        # certificate verification failed, since the version check contains no
+-        # critical information, ignore and proceed
+-        # We have to do this as if the calibre CA certificate ever
+-        # needs to be revoked, then we wont be able to do version checks
+-        version = get_https_resource_securely(URL, headers=headers, cacerts=None)
+-    try:
+-        version = version.decode('utf-8').strip()
+-    except UnicodeDecodeError:
+-        version = u''
+-    ans = NO_CALIBRE_UPDATE
+-    m = re.match(ur'(\d+)\.(\d+).(\d+)$', version)
+-    if m is not None:
+-        ans = tuple(map(int, (m.group(1), m.group(2), m.group(3))))
+-    return ans
++    return NO_CALIBRE_UPDATE
+ 
+ 
+ class Signal(QObject):
+@@ -81,12 +51,6 @@ class CheckForUpdates(Thread):
+             calibre_update_version = NO_CALIBRE_UPDATE
+             plugins_update_found = 0
+             try:
+-                version = get_newest_version()
+-                if version[:2] > numeric_version[:2]:
+-                    calibre_update_version = version
+-            except Exception as e:
+-                prints('Failed to check for calibre update:', as_unicode(e))
+-            try:
+                 update_plugins = get_plugin_updates_available(raise_error=True)
+                 if update_plugins is not None:
+                     plugins_update_found = len(update_plugins)
+@@ -193,13 +157,7 @@ class UpdateMixin(object):
+         self.status_bar.update_label.setText(msg)
+         self.status_bar.update_label.setVisible(True)
+ 
+-        if has_calibre_update:
+-            if force:
+-                if not no_show_popup:
+-                    self._update_notification__ = UpdateNotification(calibre_version,
+-                            number_of_plugin_updates, parent=self)
+-                    self._update_notification__.show()
+-        elif has_plugin_updates:
++        if has_plugin_updates:
+             if force:
+                 from calibre.gui2.dialogs.plugin_updater import (PluginUpdaterDialog,
+                     FILTER_UPDATE_AVAILABLE)
+-- 
+2.12.2
+
diff --git a/libre/calibre/0001-Remove-new_version_notification.patch b/libre/calibre/0001-Remove-new_version_notification.patch
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..e47545167
--- /dev/null
+++ b/libre/calibre/0001-Remove-new_version_notification.patch
@@ -0,0 +1,90 @@
+---
+ src/calibre/gui2/__init__.py             |  2 --
+ src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.py |  1 -
+ src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.ui |  7 -------
+ src/calibre/gui2/update.py               | 12 ++----------
+ 4 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 20 deletions(-)
+
+diff --git a/src/calibre/gui2/__init__.py b/src/calibre/gui2/__init__.py
+index a1cf1849d3..6daa2e7050 100644
+--- a/src/calibre/gui2/__init__.py
++++ b/src/calibre/gui2/__init__.py
+@@ -169,8 +169,6 @@ def _config():  # {{{
+               help=_('Confirm before deleting'))
+     c.add_opt('main_window_geometry', default=None,
+               help=_('Main window geometry'))
+-    c.add_opt('new_version_notification', default=True,
+-              help=_('Notify when a new version is available'))
+     c.add_opt('use_roman_numerals_for_series_number', default=True,
+               help=_('Use Roman numerals for series number'))
+     c.add_opt('sort_tags_by', default='name',
+diff --git a/src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.py b/src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.py
+index 6db4cb1f3a..51b7ed0a82 100644
+--- a/src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.py
++++ b/src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.py
+@@ -40,7 +40,6 @@ class ConfigWidget(ConfigWidgetBase, Ui_Form):
+ 
+         r('network_timeout', prefs)
+ 
+-        r('new_version_notification', config)
+         r('upload_news_to_device', config)
+         r('delete_news_from_library_on_upload', config)
+ 
+diff --git a/src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.ui b/src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.ui
+index 2926f767b9..0ad9988845 100644
+--- a/src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.ui
++++ b/src/calibre/gui2/preferences/behavior.ui
+@@ -14,13 +14,6 @@
+    <string>Form</string>
+   </property>
+   <layout class="QGridLayout" name="gridLayout">
+-   <item row="1" column="0">
+-    <widget class="QCheckBox" name="opt_new_version_notification">
+-     <property name="text">
+-      <string>Show notification when &amp;new version is available</string>
+-     </property>
+-    </widget>
+-   </item>
+    <item row="1" column="1">
+     <widget class="QCheckBox" name="opt_bools_are_tristate">
+      <property name="toolTip">
+diff --git a/src/calibre/gui2/update.py b/src/calibre/gui2/update.py
+index 3e294cac31..d1ba091373 100644
+--- a/src/calibre/gui2/update.py
++++ b/src/calibre/gui2/update.py
+@@ -125,11 +125,7 @@ class UpdateNotification(QDialog):
+         self.setWindowIcon(QIcon(I('lt.png')))
+         self.l.addWidget(self.logo, 0, 0)
+         self.l.addWidget(self.label, 0, 1)
+-        self.cb = QCheckBox(
+-            _('Show this notification for future updates'), self)
+-        self.l.addWidget(self.cb, 1, 0, 1, -1)
+-        self.cb.setChecked(config.get('new_version_notification'))
+-        self.cb.stateChanged.connect(self.show_future)
++
+         self.bb = QDialogButtonBox(self)
+         b = self.bb.addButton(_('&Get update'), self.bb.AcceptRole)
+         b.setDefault(True)
+@@ -151,9 +147,6 @@ class UpdateNotification(QDialog):
+                 initial_filter=FILTER_UPDATE_AVAILABLE)
+         d.exec_()
+ 
+-    def show_future(self, *args):
+-        config.set('new_version_notification', bool(self.cb.isChecked()))
+-
+     def accept(self):
+         open_url(QUrl(get_download_url()))
+ 
+@@ -201,8 +194,7 @@ class UpdateMixin(object):
+         self.status_bar.update_label.setVisible(True)
+ 
+         if has_calibre_update:
+-            if (force or (config.get('new_version_notification') and
+-                    dynamic.get('update to version %s'%calibre_version, True))):
++            if force:
+                 if not no_show_popup:
+                     self._update_notification__ = UpdateNotification(calibre_version,
+                             number_of_plugin_updates, parent=self)
+-- 
+2.12.2
+
diff --git a/libre/calibre/PKGBUILD b/libre/calibre/PKGBUILD
index e869aabc3..78feccce4 100644
--- a/libre/calibre/PKGBUILD
+++ b/libre/calibre/PKGBUILD
@@ -33,11 +33,17 @@ conflicts=($pkgname-libre)
 mksource=("http://download.$pkgname-ebook.com/${pkgver}/$pkgname-${pkgver}.tar.xz"
           "https://calibre-ebook.com/signatures/${pkgname}-${pkgver}.tar.xz.sig")
 source=("https://repo.parabola.nu/other/${pkgname}-libre/${pkgname}-libre-${pkgver}.tar.xz"
-        'libre.patch')
+        'libre.patch'
+        '0001-Remove-new_version_notification.patch'
+        '0001-Remove-code-that-contacts-calibre-servers-to-check-u.patch')
 mksha256sums=('137995abe467fcb951c1d42583305ebec7b8ca403c44895e70f82a2d6156711c'
+              'SKIP'
+              'SKIP'
               'SKIP')
 sha256sums=('4da07053bddca0c49c3bf315397f3f1dff319f74e63e8a961c3906e0eca4eb7d'
-            '9d57abfff30e0b02128aa32ee41e095ab9f16b52c358fda68b3cae3ab8b485b9')
+            '9d57abfff30e0b02128aa32ee41e095ab9f16b52c358fda68b3cae3ab8b485b9'
+            'fb0394227e0dc67c612634ac31e164aa05fe0b8dc158a63c4cc41e9182d0d357'
+            '82c54f58751279e8d631af2f7638828ed98f276a9fd9baff596d97d0cd135b7a')
 validpgpkeys=('3CE1780F78DD88DF45194FD706BC317B515ACE7C')
 
 mksource(){
@@ -55,6 +61,8 @@ prepare(){
   rm -v resources/images/mimetypes/{cbr,rar}.png
   rm -v imgsrc/mimetypes/rar.svg
   patch -Np1 -i "${srcdir}/libre.patch"
+  patch -Np1 -i "${srcdir}/0001-Remove-new_version_notification.patch"
+  patch -Np1 -i "${srcdir}/0001-Remove-code-that-contacts-calibre-servers-to-check-u.patch"
 
   # Remove unneeded files and libs
   # FIXME: remove html5lib too, but the latest html5lib breaks calibre. And calibre
-- 
2.12.2



From nospam at curso.re  Wed Apr 12 18:54:05 2017
From: nospam at curso.re (nospam at curso.re)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:54:05 +0100
Subject: [Dev] texlive-latexextra packages require T1 that is not available
 in Parabola
Message-ID: <87k26pe9te.fsf@example.com>


Hello,

the wiki page about TeXLive[1] mentions that the some fonts (e.g. T1)
have been stripped off the original Arch package because of incompatible
licenses.

Unfortunately, many packages in texlive-latexextra require explicitly
the T1 fonts.

For example:

abslibre/libre/texlive-latexextra/src/texlive-latexextra-2016.42294/tex/latex/hc/hcart.cls
175:\RequirePackage[T1]{fontenc}

This causes tex files that require those packages to fail compilation. I
tried to replace T1 with QX as suggested in the wiki page and then the
compilation worked OK.

Would it make sense to add the below command in the "prepare" function of
PKGBUILD to replace all occurrences of T1 with QX?

# replace references to T1 with QX
find tex/ -type f -exec sed -i 's/\(.*\)\(\[T1\]\)\({fontenc}.*\)/\1[QX]\3/g' '{}' \;

I tried this and it worked OK, however I have *not* been compiling latex
files that require all the packages. I think it could make sense to give
it a go given that with T1 the latex won't compile. In fact, it could
even encourage users to install the T1 fonts manually.

Many thanks,

-- S.

[1] https://wiki.parabola.nu/TeXLive

P.S.

I understand that Parabola has a bug tracker, please do let me know
whether you prefer that these kinds of messages are posted there instead
of on the mailing list.



From encycl at parlementum.red  Thu Apr 13 03:29:28 2017
From: encycl at parlementum.red (Charles Roth)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:29:28 -0700
Subject: [Dev] Removal of my hacker profile from the website
Message-ID: <c8d87fa9-c98a-20b8-11ee-9ef968cde684@parlementum.red>

I am quite upset, I feel this is a slap in the face.

I haven't contributed to packaging lately, but I roam the Fediverse
advocating for Parabola. I paid for domains for several years, I wrote
the first wiki pages.

Who removed me? Why?

Very disappointed


-- 
Charles Roth, MPC
Cultural Detective, Curious Antiquary, Noted Pedestrian, Amateur 
Lexicographer & Voracious Reader.

Primary email: encycl at parlementum.red
My Library: https://www.librarycat.org/lib/encycl
GPG Key: http://keybase.io/encycl
Protect your email: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/
"La mort fromage--quel dommage!"


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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Apr 13 10:15:35 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:15:35 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Removal of my hacker profile from the website
In-Reply-To: <c8d87fa9-c98a-20b8-11ee-9ef968cde684@parlementum.red>
References: <c8d87fa9-c98a-20b8-11ee-9ef968cde684@parlementum.red>
Message-ID: <61cbcc46-01b3-8eb7-9499-50724edf8cb4@riseup.net>

On 04/13/2017 03:29 AM, Charles Roth wrote:
> I am quite upset, I feel this is a slap in the face.
> 
> I haven't contributed to packaging lately, but I roam the Fediverse
> advocating for Parabola. I paid for domains for several years, I wrote
> the first wiki pages.
> 
> Who removed me? Why?
> 
> Very disappointed

Hi Encyclomundi, your profile is available in the support staff [0]
until nowadays, since now we have 2 new profiles (support-staff and
artists). If you want, i could add you in hackers profile too, please
let me know.

Regards,
Andr?.

[0]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/support-staff/#encyclomundi


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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 13 15:05:44 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:05:44 -0300
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
Message-ID: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Dear Mr. Richard Stallman:

	In the last past days (even some years), the Parabola community
experimented some issues among its members because of the difference
of ideas. The problem now is that these issues have increased and now
it has become a big problem, which could end up with Parabola if we
don't solve it soon. We are telling *you* this because the Parabola
Community has been divided, and we need a moderator, so we chose you.

	Some time ago *some* Parabola devs thought about creating a webstore
so that devs can work full time for Parabola and get a salary for
that, at that point it was just like the "brainstorming" when they
(we) made some virtual meetings. When this idea became a bit more
known, then other devs, which were not invited nor involved at the
beginning started to criticize the ones who begun with the idea
calling our meetings "secret meetings", "meetings without
transparency" and bullying some other devs like Andr? Silva
(Emulatorman), insulting and contradicting him, defending themselves
attacking others.

	It is not necessary to say names, we have collected evidence so we
can prove what I'm saying is true. Please read the attachment, there
are the names and emails they've sent to the mailing list.

	After all of this, Andr? Silva left the decision of his expulsion to
the community[1], and many devs and users are on his favor. So we ask
you, please, help us with a wise suggestion or with the decision you
consider correct and propose it to the community. From my personal
point of view, I think a disclaimer or sth. similar (code of conduct,
community rules, etc) has to be created, there is none afaik, perhaps
that's sth. you can recommend?.

[1] https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004935.html

Regards,
Megver83

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox:
EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA
3791
GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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=1RFC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-------------- next part --------------
aurelien leave and back to stay on the Parabola (2014 - December)

# aurelien
#
# "*The heresy of money*"
#
# "*Money* is more *poisonous* than
# anything anywhere in the know bubble Univers."
#
# Judge directly:
# "Emulatorman, Icarious"
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002460.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002479.html

---

2017 - April

# aurelien
#
# "I am against the money"
#
# "Nowadays thanks GNU and thanks Parabola because I have a job"
#
# "dark corner of the money ..."
#
# "fauno his pillar"
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004858.html

# aurelien
#
# "the dark mail exchange around that
# I consider as a trap to one of thus who load the project."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004866.html

# aurelien
#
# "That is why money burst my ass."
#
# "We create that community for cool reason and
# are now poisonned by that shit."
#
# "Get time to read about the ?Make_Me_Piss article."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004869.html

# aurelien
#
# "I was against the money from the first and
# you insist to be."
#
# "I do not appreciate that you force that
# by bringing people to vote for something that
# they never get part of."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004871.html

# aurelien
#
# "Do not talk to me about ethical,
# you are the one who bring the poison."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004874.html

# aurelien
#
# "building and pushing stuff thinking that
# I do not have to resign in front bullshit."
#
# "Money is a poison not a solution."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004877.html

# aurelien
#
# "if I am a bit, ok a lot brutal."
#
# "fauno have all our trust, he bring us far"
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004880.html

# fauno
#
# "... it's a secret meeting to form a consensus ... "
#
# "... they were mixed with flak towards ceata that
# is completely unfair."
#
# "... some money Emulatorman had to spend from pocket
# for fisl and a veiled accusation of stealing parabola funds
# to myself."
#
# "... impulsiveness and lack of transparency
# put us in this position ..."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004884.html

# fauno
#
# "what stresses me is your concern trolling"
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004893.html

# aurelien
#
# "There is secret meeting and
# then some of you people accuse fauno."
#
# "... if money represent trouble by trouble
# it generate, secret meeting are more ofen
# the root of the trouble."
#
# "... but the technical interest is my gazoline."
#
# "To thus who make that secret I blame you."
#
# "To thus who blame fauno, SHAME ON YOU!"
#
# "Shame on you because you make feel sad someone
# who give part of his life on this project and blame him
# about money trouble that no one have really the hands on."
#
# "I do not blame Ceata by that way but the economical world
# that make the things as they are and all of you because
# you do not understand the biggest lesson of Free Software
# which is we are the people, we are unit."
#
# "I invite all of you to present a correct solution
# in front the need of the servers,
# a professionnal presentation as excuse to fauno and
# all other Dev that you have flawed by you secret society."
#
# "I also invite you to share your project with new incomers
# to the community, as I have done with Emulatorman in time
# I share with him the kernel building function."
#
# "No one have to get out, but all of us have to get lesson
# from that situation."
#
# "I also invite you and I do not count me in that to have
# a look to mutuellism economical solution."
#
# "Last, close that topic and start one as mutuellism from
# knowledge to donation."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004895.html

# fauno
#
# "this is my tl;dr: a bunch of parabola hackers
# unilaterally forced us into this situation, making several
# unsubstantiated claims they can't confirm and
# sistematically making purchases before knowing how we
# could pay for them.  now they're protecting themselves
# behind a concern troll."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004901.html

# hellekin
#
# "I'm very disappointed at how things were (mis)handled
# and I am quite upset.  How comes adhocracy and consensus
# went to shit when it came to handling money?  Blaming Ceata
# for that when they only performed as they said they would
# brought Tiberiu to cancel your fiscal sponsorship, bravo,
# now you have to find another one within 2 months
# (good luck with that).  I only hope the
# Parabola community can survive your selfish brat behavior."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004904.html

# hellekin
#
# "Read the thread, Andr? and Aur?lien attacked Tiberiu."
#
# "... frankly have other things to do in my life than
# documenting your bullshit."
#
# "I'm just saddened to see how you shot yourselves in the foot."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004912.html

# tct - Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic
# RIP != 'Death' -> RIP == 'Rest In Peace'
#
# "every coup needs a plan to try give the action
# legitimacy, right? I'm sure that this is not the only talk
# you had behind everyone's backs."
#
# "And what is this g4jc: RIP Ceata, Emulatorman: #rip-ceata,
# coadde: rip-ceata. Do you really hate Ceata that much?
# RIP = Death. Is this your goodbye wish to Ceata? Have you
# named your communication channel #rip-ceata?"
#
# "You are so low..."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004914.html

# lukeshu
#
# ''Sunday   : <fauno> i have the feeling this will get ugly''
#
# ''Wednesday: *it gets ugly*''
#
# ''... well shit.''
#
# ''While I understand, and am a fan of,
# the "you don't need to ask for permission to get things
# done" aspect of Adhocracy, given the size of Parabola's
# developer community, and that the costs of the server were
# a fairly substantial part of Parabola's funds,
# it absolutely was a mistake to not have this discussion
# with more members of the community.''
#
# ''We should not have been kept in the dark.  If I were
# Emulatorman, this is where I would condescendingly link to
# the "cliques" section of the Adhocracy article.''
#
# ''Look, handing money to someone is easy.  But then
# governments get involved because taxes, and everything
# gets complicated.  Even if it "should" be simple.''
#
# ''Half of the things you've suggested are "probably
# technically tax fraud (ask a lawyer!), but you'd probably get
# away with it."  When dealing with governments and taxes and
# non-profit/not-for-profit status, shit gets painful.''
#
# ''When companies do crazy shit like setting up wholly owned
# subsidiaries in off-shore tax havens and whatnot, it's made
# possible/legal by a high-powered, high-paid, lawyer
# (or, more likely, a team of them!), whose salary is less than
# the crazy-large amount of money being saved.
# They essentially get an economy of scale.  Unless we somehow
# find ourselves in a situation where we are overflowing with
# enough money to retain a lawyer, then going down this path is
# going down the path of "accidentally committing tax fraud,
# and hoping we get away with it."''
#
# ''When there's a part that we indisputably need, has an
# established and accepted price, and an universally agreed
# upon vendor, we STILL have to go through a process.''
#
# ''What I saw of the records of emails that I've been shown,
# the process with Ceata was NOTHING unusual.''
#
# ''In the same universe where a discussion among 3 members
# of the community on various private forums forces the
# entire community to have severed relations with their
# fiscal sponsor.''
#
# ''Beside the pad, there were various other private
# communications to various other members of the community,
# that are perhaps best described as "indented, at least in
# part, to plant the seeds of doubt and mistrust toward
# Ceata, and toward fauno."''
#
# ''Yeah, 'cause those start on IRC, and if not, are quickly
# opened to the entire community.  Most of the community
# didn't even know that the pad existed, or that there was
# *any* issue or concerns regarding funds and
# Ceata until after ?7 had been invoked.''
#
# ''Tiberiu was witnessed much more of this "first hand"
# than I did, but the "rundown" that fauno gave me was not
# a rundown at all--he pretty transparently gave me
# (overwhelmed me) with complete transcripts.''
#
# ''Ah yes, because being a prolific developer makes one's
# behavior beyond reproach.  If he were on the other side
# of the issue, this is where I believe that Emulatorman
# would link to the "Overview" of the Adhocracy
# article, mostly intending to the invoke the bit about the
# difference between Adhocracy and Meritocracy.''
#
# ''Maybe moving away from Ceata is the right decision.  I
# don't think it is, but I don't know.  It should have been
# discussed by the community.
# It was really shitty of Emulatorman, g4jc, et al.
# to have forced the issue the way they did.''
#
# ''No. Shut up.  fauno is a pillar of the
# community.  This is a fact.''
#
# '''
# https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pillar_of_the_community
# | Noun
# |  pillar of the community (plural pillars of the community)
# |
# |   1. A prominent member or supporter of a particular community.
# '''
#
# ''I suggest you re-read the section on cliques.  While
# I support many of the purchasing decisions that I've tried
# to use the Ceata-held funds for (now that I know about them),
# these were being made out of view of the community.  Not
# being blessed with getting Cc'ed on your emails meant to
# everyone else "that their participation is not welcome".
# Discussions happening away from public spaces mean that "what
# is happening in the group is a partial assessment does not
# include those that are not."''
#
# '''
# I assume that hellekin's private communication with fauno began much
# the same as mine did:
#
#  <lukeshu> hey
#  <fauno>   hey
#  <lukeshu> So I guess I've been oblivious to some drama about access
#            to donations?
#  <fauno>   yes
#  <fauno>   what have you heard?
#
# That is: It happened in response to other private communication.
# '''
#
# ''Even if everything with the build server does work out,
# and we get the server worked out in Uruguay; Ceata generously
# offered to allow us to co-locate a server in their datacenter
# for free (and the server would be acquired much more
# cost-effectively than shipping one to Uruguay).
# Remember how the build-server plan I posted on the 31st
# involved 2 servers?  Beside the all of the community and
# relationships stuff, I'm pissed that the behavior of members
# of our community screwed us out of a 2nd bare-metal
# server.  Shit, even before they pushed Ceata to walk
# away, they rejected the offer for the co-located server.  That
# was a great offer!  Why did only 2 members of the community
# get to weigh in on it!?''
#
# ''Of the things I've gotten upset about with Parabola in
# the recent past, it has all been because of lack of
# communication/documentation.
# Adhocracy means that you can just do things, and don't have
# to waste time discussing it first.  However, for the
# community to survive, things need to be discussable; when
# you do something, you need to write down why you did it,
# and make it visible for critique, and correction.''
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004934.html

# aurelien
#
# "That is disturbing, but,
# that is not the thing that disturb me."
#
# "You are Human and by the way you can comit fault."
#
# "`But in that hundred of lines I do not read the part of
# your excuse to fauno.`"
#
# "For that, and the secret society you have create rejecting
# thus who don't care of money from the choice and orientation
# of the project, that is difficult to consider you as a
# good Human but a good manipulator."
#
# "You do a lot for the project, from technical to much more,
# but does that mean it give right to you to decide for all
# and manipulate people?"
#
# "As I told you, but you just want to see the point,
# share the building kernel pack with a new incomer and get
# time to find your way in the project would be welcome."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004941.html

# srw - Stig Roar Wangberg
#
# "You are disturbing."
#
# '''
# > You are Human and by the way you can comit fault.
# Like you. And everyone else.
# '''
#
# "Why should he? Did anyone of you popes
# ask Emulatorman for fogiveness?"
#
# "Fuck you! On behalf of a good-hearted
# person: Fuck you! There is no secret society,
# and I wonder who is the manipulator here."
#
# "Wow, you admit he's a hardworking man that works around
# the clock for Parabola? Wow, that must have been hard to
# bring out! And who is he manipulating? Is it manipulation
# to want somethign good for Parabola?
# Oh, I see: He didn't ask for the pope's mercy!"
#
# "You're everything *but* kind! You're rude and hurting
# people! To be honest, I hope Emulatorman and all the
# hardworking devs leave! You don't deserve him."
#
# "I for one had enough of this shit! I'm def. out of here!"
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004942.html

---

# 2014 - December

# lashdu
#
# "I also believe that money can spoil people and damage well ..."
#
# "..."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002486.html

# aurelien
#
# "There is lot of arguments to pray for the money temple."
#
# "..."
#
# "Parabola have run fine during that last five years without money."
#
# "What change that the project now need money?"
#
# "..."
#
# "Money is one more element to think that we do not have before,
# some more time to loose, but as some say very important."
#
# "..."
#
# "The fever of gold ..."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002507.html

# aurelien
#
# french language:
# '''
# Meanwhile, because the most beautiful utopias are forced into silence
# instead of called for being fought for, and thus find solutions for
# them, they don't work as they should.
#
# So, stand up and fight.
# '''
#
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002510.html
# ^ (translated by hellekin)
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002511.html

# aurelien
#
# '''
# Money represent many troubles.
# - some will not join the project for the utopia, since the utopia will
# not be anymore
# - some will join the project for money only, the one for the utopia
# will not come anymore since the utopia will not be anymore sinc you
# have killed it
# - some people will join the project for the power to control and get
# more money and not for the utopia of the project since the utopia will
# not be anymore since you have killed it
#
# you kill the utopia and ask what is the trouble? hmm
#
# "d?barquer la bouche en coeur"
# '''
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002512.html

# aurelien
#
# "You get out the sentence from its context"
#
# '''
# ... At this time, without money, there is no interest in doing
# things 1 or 2, so everyone is free to built a package,
# compile a kernel, have the fingers in the servers, bring some
# new project.
#
# With money, you will kill that playground for everyone, and will
# make a money playground.
# '''
#
# "That seems disturbing for you, it is not a competition, it is ..."
#
# "There is not true friendship at the time there is money interest."
#
# "I understand that could be disturbing for some people."
#
# "You also use incitment to me, so the best for you should
# to M-x doctor
# What is your plan Hellekin?"
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002629.html

# aurelien
#
# "Stop to blame me to try to defend something I care about."
#
# "... if you introduce money on task, money on works,
# money as reward to something,
# ... you will *destroy* :: "
#
# "... (there is no friend when there is money)"
#
# "Where is fun in money? Are you free because you have money?"
#
# "And stop to tell me that I decide for other, ..."
#
# "M-x doctor
# Why if you have no plan are you agressive with me?"
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002642.html

# aurelien
#
# "Introducing money to dev or people will destroy frienship
# of the community."
#
# "Introducing money to dev or people will introduce competition
# on act that bring to destroy the discovering role in Computer
# Sciences and Hackers side."
#
# "... just a fact that introducing money on people or act will
# do destroy many things."
#
# "Is that ok like that?"
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002644.html

# aurelien
#
# "Introducing money will bring high level people to
# parabola (that is cool)
# But that will get the place of new incomers without level
# that want to learn and discover computer science."
#
# "That will also kill friendship because it is well known
# that where there is money there is no true friendship."
#
# "Donate is not the trouble, the usage of the money is the trouble."
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002649.html

# aurelien
#
# "Yes I am deeply sure by experience, there is no true
# friendship when there is money between people."
#
# "And worst you kill true friendship by introducing money :'("
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002652.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dev] Some doubts about Parabola's donations:
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004848.html
---
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004849.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004850.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004852.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004853.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004854.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004855.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004856.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004858.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004859.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004860.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004861.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004862.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004863.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004864.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004866.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004867.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004868.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004869.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004870.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004871.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004873.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004874.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004875.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004877.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004878.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004880.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004884.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004890.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004893.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004894.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004895.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004896.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004898.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004901.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004903.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004904.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004905.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004906.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004907.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004908.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004911.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004912.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004913.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004914.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004916.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004920.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004921.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004922.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004927.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004930.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004931.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004933.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004934.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004936.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004943.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004944.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dev] [consensus][due: 2017-05-01] Emulatorman's expulsion
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004935.html
---
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004937.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004938.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004939.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004940.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004941.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004942.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004945.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dev] I quit Parabola project and the FSF. (aurelien)
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002460.html
---
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002461.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002462.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002463.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002464.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002465.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002466.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002467.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002468.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002471.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002472.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002474.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002478.html

[Dev] I stay in Parabola project and the FSF. (aurelien)
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002479.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dev] *URGENT* Proposal to organise Parabola
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002475.html
---
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002476.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002477.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002480.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002481.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002482.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002483.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002484.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002485.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002486.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002487.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002488.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002489.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002490.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002491.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002492.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002493.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002494.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002495.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002498.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002499.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002502.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002505.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002507.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002508.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002509.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002510.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002511.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002512.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002513.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002517.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002519.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002524.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002526.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002527.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002529.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002534.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002536.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002537.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002539.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002573.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002576.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002577.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002579.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002627.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002629.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002635.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002642.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002643.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002644.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002646.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002647.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002649.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002651.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002653.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002656.html
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002657.html

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Apr 13 15:14:01 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:14:01 -0300
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87zifkibly.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:
> so we chose you.

who is we?  you are the whole of the parabola community now perhaps?

nice attempt at turning the tables guys

-- 
}(:=
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 13 15:20:06 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:20:06 -0300
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <87zifkibly.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <87zifkibly.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <8cfd404e-02bb-bc44-1e3d-a8d72705fd16@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

I knew you were going to answer that, and I'm not the community, but
you neither. What did you spectated? that we ask the same people who
attacked Emulatorman and others?

"We" *is not* the hole Parabola community, understand?

El 13/04/17 a las 12:14, fauno escribi?:
> Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:
>> so we chose you.
> 
> who is we?  you are the whole of the parabola community now
> perhaps?
> 
> nice attempt at turning the tables guys
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox:
EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA
3791
GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 13 15:21:34 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:21:34 -0300
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <8cfd404e-02bb-bc44-1e3d-a8d72705fd16@openmailbox.org>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <87zifkibly.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <8cfd404e-02bb-bc44-1e3d-a8d72705fd16@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <c26b5576-f19f-e99f-9233-4554a0d9a4da@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

El 13/04/17 a las 12:20, Megver83 escribi?:
> I knew you were going to answer that, and I'm not the community,
> but you neither. What did you spectated? that we ask the same
> people who attacked Emulatorman and others?
> 
> "We" *is not* the hole Parabola community, understand?

s|hole|whole|

> El 13/04/17 a las 12:14, fauno escribi?:
>> Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:
>>> so we chose you.
> 
>> who is we?  you are the whole of the parabola community now 
>> perhaps?
> 
>> nice attempt at turning the tables guys
> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list
>>  Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
> 
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox:
EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA
3791
GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Apr 13 15:33:40 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:33:40 -0300
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87tw5siap7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Dear Mr. Richard Stallman:

hi richard, i'm really ashamed you're getting involved in this and the
shitload of emails that'll ensue.  if you take the time to read the fine
selection sent, at least hear the other bell and the full story.

> 	In the last past days (even some years), the Parabola community
> experimented some issues among its members because of the difference
> of ideas. The problem now is that these issues have increased and now
> it has become a big problem, which could end up with Parabola if we
> don't solve it soon. We are telling *you* this because the Parabola
> Community has been divided, and we need a moderator, so we chose you.

this "we" doesn't mean the parabola community, just the guys feeling
attacked.

> 	Some time ago *some* Parabola devs thought about creating a webstore
> so that devs can work full time for Parabola and get a salary for
> that, at that point it was just like the "brainstorming" when they
> (we) made some virtual meetings. When this idea became a bit more
> known, then other devs, which were not invited nor involved at the
> beginning started to criticize the ones who begun with the idea
> calling our meetings "secret meetings", "meetings without
> transparency" and bullying some other devs like Andr? Silva
> (Emulatorman), insulting and contradicting him, defending themselves
> attacking others.

yes, they were secret because everyone else in the community wasn't
involved.  you're forgetting you also wanted to force our fiscal sponsor
to pay for things you wanted without caring if they could really pay
them, and then accusing them of mishandling our funds.  this forced them
to cut our agreement and everyone else here to find a new fiscal
sponsor.

> 	It is not necessary to say names, we have collected evidence so we
> can prove what I'm saying is true. Please read the attachment, there
> are the names and emails they've sent to the mailing list.

this is a bogus claim.  your corpus is full of names of people that have
called your bullshit.

> 	After all of this, Andr? Silva left the decision of his expulsion to
> the community[1], and many devs and users are on his favor. So we ask

/devs and users/his friends/

> you, please, help us with a wise suggestion or with the decision you
> consider correct and propose it to the community. From my personal
> point of view, I think a disclaimer or sth. similar (code of conduct,
> community rules, etc) has to be created, there is none afaik, perhaps
> that's sth. you can recommend?.

we do have community rules: we have an open list and everything was
always brought here to consensus.

-- 

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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Thu Apr 13 19:14:32 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:14:32 +0200
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <87tw5siap7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <87tw5siap7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <20170413191432.GA871@athena>

Alright, this seems to be getting a little out of hand over something
that really isn't that big a deal (what's more, the past is the past and
cannot be changed)

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:33:40PM -0300, fauno wrote:
> Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA512
> >
> > Dear Mr. Richard Stallman:
> 
> hi richard, i'm really ashamed you're getting involved in this and the
> shitload of emails that'll ensue.  if you take the time to read the fine
> selection sent, at least hear the other bell and the full story.
> 
> > 	In the last past days (even some years), the Parabola community
> > experimented some issues among its members because of the difference
> > of ideas. The problem now is that these issues have increased and now
> > it has become a big problem, which could end up with Parabola if we
> > don't solve it soon. We are telling *you* this because the Parabola
> > Community has been divided, and we need a moderator, so we chose you.
> 
> this "we" doesn't mean the parabola community, just the guys feeling
> attacked.
> 

Why do we need to involve Richard in this? I feel like this is somehow a
plea to authority trying to have someone else solve our problems.
However, I don't think this will solve anything, what's more it creates
an authority figure in the Parabola community where instead we should be
speaking rationally. We can't expect others to come in and solve our
problems for us.

Differing opinions is normal since we are all different people (life
would be pretty boring if we all had the same opinions). The important
thing is reasoning through our differing opinions and finding a
compromise (which may or may not be necessary if either side is able to
convince the other of their ideas).

> > 	Some time ago *some* Parabola devs thought about creating a webstore
> > so that devs can work full time for Parabola and get a salary for
> > that, at that point it was just like the "brainstorming" when they
> > (we) made some virtual meetings. When this idea became a bit more
> > known, then other devs, which were not invited nor involved at the
> > beginning started to criticize the ones who begun with the idea
> > calling our meetings "secret meetings", "meetings without
> > transparency" and bullying some other devs like Andr? Silva
> > (Emulatorman), insulting and contradicting him, defending themselves
> > attacking others.
> 
> yes, they were secret because everyone else in the community wasn't
> involved.  you're forgetting you also wanted to force our fiscal sponsor
> to pay for things you wanted without caring if they could really pay
> them, and then accusing them of mishandling our funds.  this forced them
> to cut our agreement and everyone else here to find a new fiscal
> sponsor.
> 

From what I know (correct me if I'm wrong) although these ideas were
discussed in private they were never implemented nor is there currently
a plan to implement them. Therefore, what is their sin? I don't think
that discussing ideas (or even elaborating them) in private is a bad
thing. Now, if they would like to implement any of these then it should
be up to the community as a whole where the community is concerned. That
is, actions should be transparent, but ideas can be private since they
have no real effect until they are put into action.

I do see, however, the issue with fiscal policy of Parabola. My personal
suggestion is that since Parabola aims to be a community oriented
project (afaik) I suggest full transparency. This is something I've done
while taking part in a local political party that aimed to be directly
democratic and it worked rather well, as it functions as a trustless
system where even if you do not trust the person in charge of finances
you can keep an eye on their activities with respect to finances. This
forces said person to also be more cautious about how they handle
things and allows for anyone to publicly bring up any issues that they
see with how things are being handled and for them to be discussed by
the community as a whole. For this it would be wise to put a link to a
GnuCash file on the Parabola website where one can easily find this
information.

> > 	It is not necessary to say names, we have collected evidence so we
> > can prove what I'm saying is true. Please read the attachment, there
> > are the names and emails they've sent to the mailing list.
> 
> this is a bogus claim.  your corpus is full of names of people that have
> called your bullshit.
> 
> > 	After all of this, Andr? Silva left the decision of his expulsion to
> > the community[1], and many devs and users are on his favor. So we ask
> 
> /devs and users/his friends/
> 

I am not his friend, I know Emulatorman very little, however from the
little I have known him, I have seen him doing quite a bit of work for
this project, and that he is a very valuable person for this community.

> > you, please, help us with a wise suggestion or with the decision you
> > consider correct and propose it to the community. From my personal
> > point of view, I think a disclaimer or sth. similar (code of conduct,
> > community rules, etc) has to be created, there is none afaik, perhaps
> > that's sth. you can recommend?.
> 
> we do have community rules: we have an open list and everything was
> always brought here to consensus.
> 

When it comes to community rules I am always very cautious and
skeptical, as they tend to have the opposite effect that they are aiming
for (especially Codes of Conduct). Policy is one thing, but the
behaviour of each individual is something completely separate and (as I
see it) non-related.

-- 
Nicol?s A. Ortega (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 13 19:33:00 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:33:00 -0300
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <20170413191432.GA871@athena>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <87tw5siap7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20170413191432.GA871@athena>
Message-ID: <39b56e32-c3c2-d62e-6538-cb7237f4f367@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

I think it is a big deal, after the insults to Emulatorman.

El 13/04/17 a las 16:14, Nicol?s A. Ortega escribi?:
> Alright, this seems to be getting a little out of hand over
> something that really isn't that big a deal (what's more, the past
> is the past and cannot be changed)
> 
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:33:40PM -0300, fauno wrote:
>> Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:
>> 
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
>>> 
>>> Dear Mr. Richard Stallman:
>> 
>> hi richard, i'm really ashamed you're getting involved in this
>> and the shitload of emails that'll ensue.  if you take the time
>> to read the fine selection sent, at least hear the other bell and
>> the full story.
>> 
>>> In the last past days (even some years), the Parabola
>>> community experimented some issues among its members because of
>>> the difference of ideas. The problem now is that these issues
>>> have increased and now it has become a big problem, which could
>>> end up with Parabola if we don't solve it soon. We are telling
>>> *you* this because the Parabola Community has been divided, and
>>> we need a moderator, so we chose you.
>> 
>> this "we" doesn't mean the parabola community, just the guys
>> feeling attacked.
>> 
> 
> Why do we need to involve Richard in this? I feel like this is
> somehow a plea to authority trying to have someone else solve our
> problems. However, I don't think this will solve anything, what's
> more it creates an authority figure in the Parabola community where
> instead we should be speaking rationally. We can't expect others to
> come in and solve our problems for us.
> 
> Differing opinions is normal since we are all different people
> (life would be pretty boring if we all had the same opinions). The
> important thing is reasoning through our differing opinions and
> finding a compromise (which may or may not be necessary if either
> side is able to convince the other of their ideas).
> 
>>> Some time ago *some* Parabola devs thought about creating a
>>> webstore so that devs can work full time for Parabola and get a
>>> salary for that, at that point it was just like the
>>> "brainstorming" when they (we) made some virtual meetings. When
>>> this idea became a bit more known, then other devs, which were
>>> not invited nor involved at the beginning started to criticize
>>> the ones who begun with the idea calling our meetings "secret
>>> meetings", "meetings without transparency" and bullying some
>>> other devs like Andr? Silva (Emulatorman), insulting and
>>> contradicting him, defending themselves attacking others.
>> 
>> yes, they were secret because everyone else in the community
>> wasn't involved.  you're forgetting you also wanted to force our
>> fiscal sponsor to pay for things you wanted without caring if
>> they could really pay them, and then accusing them of mishandling
>> our funds.  this forced them to cut our agreement and everyone
>> else here to find a new fiscal sponsor.
>> 
> 
> From what I know (correct me if I'm wrong) although these ideas
> were discussed in private they were never implemented nor is there
> currently a plan to implement them. Therefore, what is their sin? I
> don't think that discussing ideas (or even elaborating them) in
> private is a bad thing. Now, if they would like to implement any of
> these then it should be up to the community as a whole where the
> community is concerned. That is, actions should be transparent, but
> ideas can be private since they have no real effect until they are
> put into action.
> 
> I do see, however, the issue with fiscal policy of Parabola. My
> personal suggestion is that since Parabola aims to be a community
> oriented project (afaik) I suggest full transparency. This is
> something I've done while taking part in a local political party
> that aimed to be directly democratic and it worked rather well, as
> it functions as a trustless system where even if you do not trust
> the person in charge of finances you can keep an eye on their
> activities with respect to finances. This forces said person to
> also be more cautious about how they handle things and allows for
> anyone to publicly bring up any issues that they see with how
> things are being handled and for them to be discussed by the
> community as a whole. For this it would be wise to put a link to a 
> GnuCash file on the Parabola website where one can easily find
> this information.
> 
>>> It is not necessary to say names, we have collected evidence so
>>> we can prove what I'm saying is true. Please read the
>>> attachment, there are the names and emails they've sent to the
>>> mailing list.
>> 
>> this is a bogus claim.  your corpus is full of names of people
>> that have called your bullshit.
>> 
>>> After all of this, Andr? Silva left the decision of his
>>> expulsion to the community[1], and many devs and users are on
>>> his favor. So we ask
>> 
>> /devs and users/his friends/
>> 
> 
> I am not his friend, I know Emulatorman very little, however from
> the little I have known him, I have seen him doing quite a bit of
> work for this project, and that he is a very valuable person for
> this community.
> 
>>> you, please, help us with a wise suggestion or with the
>>> decision you consider correct and propose it to the community.
>>> From my personal point of view, I think a disclaimer or sth.
>>> similar (code of conduct, community rules, etc) has to be
>>> created, there is none afaik, perhaps that's sth. you can
>>> recommend?.
>> 
>> we do have community rules: we have an open list and everything
>> was always brought here to consensus.
>> 
> 
> When it comes to community rules I am always very cautious and 
> skeptical, as they tend to have the opposite effect that they are
> aiming for (especially Codes of Conduct). Policy is one thing, but
> the behaviour of each individual is something completely separate
> and (as I see it) non-related.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox:
EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA
3791
GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Thu Apr 13 20:23:01 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 22:23:01 +0200
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <39b56e32-c3c2-d62e-6538-cb7237f4f367@openmailbox.org>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <87tw5siap7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20170413191432.GA871@athena>
 <39b56e32-c3c2-d62e-6538-cb7237f4f367@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170413202301.GB871@athena>

> I think it is a big deal, after the insults to Emulatorman.
> 

I don't like some of the things that were said either, however carrying
those emotions into a rational discussion will lead to irrational
behaviour. It would be wise, to let things go in order to resolve this
as fast as possible.

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
-------------- next part --------------
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 13 20:38:04 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 17:38:04 -0300
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <20170413202301.GB871@athena>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <87tw5siap7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20170413191432.GA871@athena>
 <39b56e32-c3c2-d62e-6538-cb7237f4f367@openmailbox.org>
 <20170413202301.GB871@athena>
Message-ID: <e65e27f0-c6be-23da-0be6-26068974fe8a@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

yeah, I agree. But we did never talk about emotions and anyway, who
doesn't feel hurt when getting insulted?

I'll just wait for RMS's answer, to see what he decides.

El 13/04/17 a las 17:23, Nicol?s A. Ortega escribi?:
>> I think it is a big deal, after the insults to Emulatorman.
>> 
> 
> I don't like some of the things that were said either, however
> carrying those emotions into a rational discussion will lead to
> irrational behaviour. It would be wise, to let things go in order
> to resolve this as fast as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox:
EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA
3791
GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From rms at gnu.org  Thu Apr 13 22:08:54 2017
From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:08:54 -0400
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <87tw5siap7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> (message from fauno on Thu,
 13 Apr 2017 12:33:40 -0300)
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <87tw5siap7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <E1cymv8-0003Qv-ON@fencepost.gnu.org>

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Before I could judge what's right here, I'd have to learn a lot.  But
since I am only tangentially related to Parabola, I am not in a
position to make any decisions for the project.  I'd rather just say
that I hope Parabola comes out well, and all the contributors too.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.



From eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 13 21:49:18 2017
From: eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org (Eliot Reyna)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:49:18 +0000
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <587da78c-f53b-54ce-18e1-5edc241915fc@openmailbox.org>

I think that we're having the same issue that Libreboot: many attention 
whores are approaching to make a sandstorm of flamebait for generate 
differences and breaks the empathy of the Parabola Community (specially, 
the hackers).

Since the moment that you use the "we" word, you assume that you quoted 
to all the rest of Parabola hackers, users, contributors and/or 
volunteers, and I think that in this case, we're commiting the same 
mistake than Libreboot casse with Leah Rowe (specially, in the 2nd. 
paragraph).

Another stuff, I talked with ovruni about make a souvenir store for 
promote the distro. That query has been solved with Tehnoetic store that 
promotes the official Parabola T-shirts. BTW, I'm avariable for call to 
some small enterprises for make Parabola T-shirts for the south american 
Parabola users due to -sometimes- the international delivery can take 
since weeks until months. I don't have issues with get some souvenirs 
that Parabola community endorses.

Ah, in the topic of the search of fiscal sponsors, I'm taking my free 
time for read the entire mail chain for understand the whole situation 
and don't make any wrong suggestion (in the mail related with the change 
of fiscal sponsor, I suggested to the SPI and the FSF itself, but the 
point is choose which fiscal sponsor respects the soberany of the 
Parabola Community).

And for finish this mail, I think that many trolls and/or attention 
whores are subscribing to the maillist for simply make a whole mess for 
break the good relation between the Parabola Hackers, volunteers, 
artists and/or contribuitors. Personally, I can help them in the aspect 
of the moderation of the maillist, due to many times, in case sensitives 
as the misunderstanding with Emulatorman can be a good reason for any 
troll and/or attention whore strikes against us and generates a 
flamebait, and that's what everyone want to avoid in any community.

Greetings.

Eliot.


El 13/04/17 a las 15:05, Megver83 escribi?:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Dear Mr. Richard Stallman:
>
> 	In the last past days (even some years), the Parabola community
> experimented some issues among its members because of the difference
> of ideas. The problem now is that these issues have increased and now
> it has become a big problem, which could end up with Parabola if we
> don't solve it soon. We are telling *you* this because the Parabola
> Community has been divided, and we need a moderator, so we chose you.
>
> 	Some time ago *some* Parabola devs thought about creating a webstore
> so that devs can work full time for Parabola and get a salary for
> that, at that point it was just like the "brainstorming" when they
> (we) made some virtual meetings. When this idea became a bit more
> known, then other devs, which were not invited nor involved at the
> beginning started to criticize the ones who begun with the idea
> calling our meetings "secret meetings", "meetings without
> transparency" and bullying some other devs like Andr? Silva
> (Emulatorman), insulting and contradicting him, defending themselves
> attacking others.
>
> 	It is not necessary to say names, we have collected evidence so we
> can prove what I'm saying is true. Please read the attachment, there
> are the names and emails they've sent to the mailing list.
>
> 	After all of this, Andr? Silva left the decision of his expulsion to
> the community[1], and many devs and users are on his favor. So we ask
> you, please, help us with a wise suggestion or with the decision you
> consider correct and propose it to the community. From my personal
> point of view, I think a disclaimer or sth. similar (code of conduct,
> community rules, etc) has to be created, there is none afaik, perhaps
> that's sth. you can recommend?.
>
> [1] https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004935.html
>
> Regards,
> Megver83
>
> - -- 
> SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
> XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
> Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
> Tox:
> EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA
> 3791
> GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
> Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEErCbv92SojUTThXEpQKKthCTeGvMFAljvk8UACgkQQKKthCTe
> GvOgzggAuIT2w6PfrhY0jHG2GZ50yj01ieqPF8tGoY/o2UUNXo0C6Q5GA0V1zh/i
> 6hbSrUxfiatv1hdypMqXs9QufWCRAxOxfb/jZmBK9URPHzx/PHsM21D9NepRhrXE
> l4OZObLK/a5lwm1W1Udaz6Q5t8ze2+ngNC8RVpK0dJAIg+xohFpmoJMoEW9LRc5q
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> srdj669rSakmIXdJJIXiiI1yMEDfqF1QCpCgq3GTHoXkaxZFNKVOXMFK5lAtSZVP
> D5wH4Q2h3QJc7xpOXjYGkTBLT05XtA==
> =1RFC
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Fri Apr 14 09:18:50 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 11:18:50 +0200
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <587da78c-f53b-54ce-18e1-5edc241915fc@openmailbox.org>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <587da78c-f53b-54ce-18e1-5edc241915fc@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170414091850.GA821@athena>

> 
> And for finish this mail, I think that many trolls and/or attention whores
> are subscribing to the maillist for simply make a whole mess for break the
> good relation between the Parabola Hackers, volunteers, artists and/or
> contribuitors.

I would be very cautious about throwing around the word 'troll'. Too
often have I seen it used against someone simply in order to avoid
having to reason through their arguments. Yes, there are real trolls who
are extremely annoying, however this is not the majority of the people
in any community, but rather a small minority. More often than not
people simply have good intentions that are misinterpreted as bad by
those who disagree. Labelling opposing views as 'trolls' will not solve
any problems, and if anything will worsen the relationships of those in
the community, as they will become intolerant and stubborn with regards
to each other's opinions.

I suggest we think carefully before deciding that someone's opinion is
not worth having a serious discussion.

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From srw at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 10:01:49 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:01:49 +0200
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <20170414091850.GA821@athena>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <587da78c-f53b-54ce-18e1-5edc241915fc@openmailbox.org>
 <20170414091850.GA821@athena>
Message-ID: <20170414100149.GA16576@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:18:50AM +0200, Nicol?s A. Ortega wrote:
> > 
> > And for finish this mail, I think that many trolls and/or attention whores
> > are subscribing to the maillist for simply make a whole mess for break the
> > good relation between the Parabola Hackers, volunteers, artists and/or
> > contribuitors.
> 
> I would be very cautious about throwing around the word 'troll'. Too
> often have I seen it used against someone simply in order to avoid
> having to reason through their arguments. Yes, there are real trolls who
> are extremely annoying, however this is not the majority of the people
> in any community, but rather a small minority. More often than not
> people simply have good intentions that are misinterpreted as bad by
> those who disagree. Labelling opposing views as 'trolls' will not solve
> any problems, and if anything will worsen the relationships of those in
> the community, as they will become intolerant and stubborn with regards
> to each other's opinions.
> 
> I suggest we think carefully before deciding that someone's opinion is
> not worth having a serious discussion.
> 
> -- 
> Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
> https://themusicinnoise.net/
> http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
> Public PGP Key:
> https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
> http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc

I myself find it very odd that no one has even tried to come up with
some counter-ideas to the subject matter in question. Some devs had some
great ideas for Parabola's future. One can agree or disagree, but the
attacks, the accusasions and the name-calling (yes, everyone can lose 
his or her temper now and again) just went too far, as if someone were
just waiting for the right moment to finally throw some shit. They finally 
got their moment, it seems. 

But what happened to the ideas? What happened to the debate about the
build server, the Parabola Store, the offering of services, the handelig
of the donations et cetera? And what about the idea of supporting
(financially also) the devs that are working day and night to keep
Parabola up to date and therefor a secure and safe distro? Is it so darn
difficult to accept (or to forgive) the eagerness and the passion of devs
doing some brainstorming for the future of Parabola? What a few people
call a coup and a secret society was in a fact a storm of ideas for the
love of the community and for Parabola. Why is that so hard to accept?
And even if one disagrees on how these ideas came to life, one cound
have come up with some counter-ideas in a polite manner and in a good
spirit of growth and development.

Frankly I fear that it's too late now, and that this has done more harm 
to the devs in question than we'd like to think. I wouldn't be surprised if
they already have one foot out and will seek an enviorment and a
community where their ideas can be watered and grow with love and
support so that they can do what they do best. And: They should be
rewarded for it. 

For me the attacks and the accusasions instead of constructive
counter-ideas says it all. And it's very sad for the future of Parabola. 

S





> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 14 13:22:30 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 10:22:30 -0300
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <20170414100149.GA16576@localhost.localdomain>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <587da78c-f53b-54ce-18e1-5edc241915fc@openmailbox.org>
 <20170414091850.GA821@athena> <20170414100149.GA16576@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <87o9vzi0o9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Stig Roar <srw at openmailbox.org> writes:
> I myself find it very odd that no one has even tried to come up with
> some counter-ideas to the subject matter in question. Some devs had some
> great ideas for Parabola's future. One can agree or disagree, but the
> attacks, the accusasions and the name-calling (yes, everyone can lose 
> his or her temper now and again) just went too far, as if someone were
> just waiting for the right moment to finally throw some shit. They finally 
> got their moment, it seems. 


> But what happened to the ideas? What happened to the debate about the
> build server,

ceata was waiting for an stimated weight and size of the package to pay
for the shipment

> the Parabola Store,

no idea what this is because it was never officially proposed

> the offering of services,

idem

> the handelig of the donations et cetera?

i seriously doubt we can have a fiscal sponsor now, given the treatment
ceata received for their gratis service.  i won't be the parabola
delegate in these matters anymore, since i lost trust on some parabola
hackers and i don't want to be in a position where i have to front
people i don't trust and can't work with.  i also seriously doubt they
can handle a relation with a new fiscal sponsor, without making
ridiculous demands, that is.

do you know of any other fiscal sponsor that's willing to handle our
shit?

> And what about the idea of supporting (financially also) the devs that
> are working day and night to keep Parabola up to date and therefor a
> secure and safe distro?

perhaps you're missing more context, but we always discussed having more
hackers so the workload can be shared and no one has to work night and
day as you say.  as aurelien predicted a few years ago, the perspective
of money makes people forget we were here for the fun and knowledge of
building with others.

back then i pushed the idea of earning wages doing what we do, too.  i
think it's great.  it's not great when people competes with each other
for a bigger piece of pie.

> Is it so darn difficult to accept (or to forgive) the eagerness and
> the passion of devs doing some brainstorming for the future of
> Parabola? What a few people call a coup and a secret society was in a
> fact a storm of ideas for the love of the community and for
> Parabola. Why is that so hard to accept?  And even if one disagrees on
> how these ideas came to life, one cound have come up with some
> counter-ideas in a polite manner and in a good spirit of growth and
> development.

that's not the problem to me.  i called it a coup and i said i didn't
want to participate in this clique.  some of the ideas were good but had
to be discussed here first, i told them this too.  coming up with a
pre-figured consensus is just a way of forcing the hand of everyone else
and doesn't leave room for substancial changes, just nodding.

as a matter of fact, a few weeks ago lukeshu started a thread where we
were talking about the future and how to organize ourselves better.
these plans weren't mentioned then.

> Frankly I fear that it's too late now, and that this has done more
> harm to the devs in question than we'd like to think. I wouldn't be
> surprised if they already have one foot out and will seek an
> enviorment and a community where their ideas can be watered and grow
> with love and support so that they can do what they do best. And: They
> should be rewarded for it.
> 
> For me the attacks and the accusasions instead of constructive
> counter-ideas says it all. And it's very sad for the future of
> Parabola.

i don't know what it says to you.  as for myself, i'm fed up with the
behaviour of the likes of emulatorman, g4jc, isaacdavid...  calling rms
over to defend them was an awesome move.

to be clear: to me, this is not about personal differences or secret
meetings or people being bullyed.  these guys went ahead and bought a
server and asked for money from parabola funds to ship it.  they didn't
ask first if it was possible for our fiscal sponsor to pay the shipment
or if there was a better price.  fine, they're impatient.  i, not ceata,
asked if we could change some things so we didn't have to spend 400 USD
just in shipment.

we were in the middle of reaching an agreement but then they got in
their heads our fiscal sponsor was stealing from us and putting up
unnecessary bureaucratic requisites to cover for it.  which they were
not, they were just waiting for us to agree on the expenses.  then they
argued they always have to use from their money, like when emulatorman
went to fisl and had to pay 100 USD in transport and food.  i proved to
them emulatorman was reimbursed 200 USD for those expenses over a paypal
transfer, so their claim was bogus, but i didn't read anyone recognizing
this.  i think someone even mentioned it again later.  then they got mad
because they didn't remember our BTC donations, as well as any other
donation, had to be converted to RON so ceata doesn't raise tax evation
suspicions.

all of this landed us with no fiscal sponsorship, which took a lot of
work to build in the first place, and the task of looking for another.
they're not looking for another, everyone else has, so we don't lose
1800 EUR in donations.

what really pisses me off is that i said this three times already, other
people said it too, and they keep victimizing themselves, trying to
discuss tangential issues and placing the blame on others.  are they
asking for forgiveness for making everyone else work night and day too?
they're not even recognizing there's an issue here.

it's ok for me if they want to go, i don't want to work with them
anymore.

-- 
P)
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From quiliro at riseup.net  Fri Apr 14 13:55:04 2017
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quiliro)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:55:04 -0500
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
Message-ID: <20170413192503.4074b559@riseup.net>

Dear Friends: 

We share the same fredom values.

The question to all those involved and not involved is:
?Are you interested that Parabola continues to operate?

Then stop attacking each other. Start with verbs (proposals) and avoid
adjectives (insults).
-- 
Saluton,
Quiliro
0987631031


From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Fri Apr 14 16:50:42 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 11:50:42 -0500
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <87o9vzi0o9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <587da78c-f53b-54ce-18e1-5edc241915fc@openmailbox.org>
 <20170414091850.GA821@athena> <20170414100149.GA16576@localhost.localdomain>
 <87o9vzi0o9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <1492188642.1599.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>


Le ven. 14 avril 2017 ? 8:22, fauno a ?crit :
> i'm fed up with the
> behaviour of the likes of emulatorman, g4jc, isaacdavid...  calling 
> rms
> over to defend them was an awesome move.

I cringed when I saw this thread, please stop putting words in
everyone's mouth. the fact that you won't even attribute it properly
speaks mountains of your malice, resentment and conspiratorial thinking.

I'm losing whatever confidence I had left for you.

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943



From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 17:12:46 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:12:46 +0100
Subject: [Dev] An issue that could end up with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <1492188642.1599.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <94073936-5f73-9442-c394-bf82a7475977@openmailbox.org>
 <587da78c-f53b-54ce-18e1-5edc241915fc@openmailbox.org>
 <20170414091850.GA821@athena> <20170414100149.GA16576@localhost.localdomain>
 <87o9vzi0o9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1492188642.1599.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <58F1030E.5060301@gmail.com>

IMO this didn't need to be dragged up again. Problem is, it's far to 
easy to point the finger, but hard to come up with solutions.

It would be an idea to start thinking about who the next fiscal sponsor 
of parabola could be, if there is going to be one.


Josh


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 14 17:26:56 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:26:56 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Proposals for Fiscal Sponsor Successor
Message-ID: <58F10660.3060601@ceata.org>

Hello,

I just finished reading that Bitcoin has become a legal currency in
Japan and moreover,

"Bitcoin trading in Japanese yen is the second-most liquid market
globally, according to data compiled by cryptocurrency trading platform
Gatecoin."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/12/bitcoin-price-rises-japan-russia-regulation.html

Since one of the issues brought up by some of the Parabola hackers was
the inability of Ceata to use bitcoins without converting them in the
national currency Romanian Leu (RON), I suggest you contact Niibe Yutaka
(gniibe at fsij.org), the chairman of Free Software Initiative of Japan
(FSIJ), to ask if his organization could become the next fiscal sponsor
for Parabola.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Initiative_of_Japan

I know that Niibe and FSIJ are providing the translation of gnu.org in
Japanese.

You should work together as a community on the text to send Niibe/FSIJ
and once consensus is reached, one of you could send the e-mail Cc'ing
the mailing list.

I hope this helps,
Tiberiu


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 14 17:54:53 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 13:54:53 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Create a public pad.parabola.nu
Message-ID: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Sometimes, members of our community want to have a discussion via
etherpad... and that pad doesn't get shared with the rest of the
community, and cliques form.

I propose creating pad.parabola.nu on which Parabola hackers[1] can
create pads, but the listing of all pads is public, so that none of
them are "secret".

[1]: I said "Parabola hackers" as an anti-spam measure; credentials to
create a pad would be based on inclusion in hackers.git.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From srw at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 17:55:52 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 19:55:52 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Proposals for Fiscal Sponsor Successor
In-Reply-To: <58F10660.3060601@ceata.org>
References: <58F10660.3060601@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <20170414175552.GC5710@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 08:26:56PM +0300, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I just finished reading that Bitcoin has become a legal currency in
> Japan and moreover,
> 
> "Bitcoin trading in Japanese yen is the second-most liquid market
> globally, according to data compiled by cryptocurrency trading platform
> Gatecoin."
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/12/bitcoin-price-rises-japan-russia-regulation.html
> 
> Since one of the issues brought up by some of the Parabola hackers was
> the inability of Ceata to use bitcoins without converting them in the
> national currency Romanian Leu (RON), I suggest you contact Niibe Yutaka
> (gniibe at fsij.org), the chairman of Free Software Initiative of Japan
> (FSIJ), to ask if his organization could become the next fiscal sponsor
> for Parabola.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Initiative_of_Japan
> 
> I know that Niibe and FSIJ are providing the translation of gnu.org in
> Japanese.
> 
> You should work together as a community on the text to send Niibe/FSIJ
> and once consensus is reached, one of you could send the e-mail Cc'ing
> the mailing list.
> 
> I hope this helps,
> Tiberiu

Finally a genuine *idea*! That should be something to work with. 
S



> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 18:17:12 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 19:17:12 +0100
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Create a public pad.parabola.nu
In-Reply-To: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <58F11228.7080002@gmail.com>

On 14/04/17 18:54, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> Sometimes, members of our community want to have a discussion via
> etherpad... and that pad doesn't get shared with the rest of the
> community, and cliques form.
>
> I propose creating pad.parabola.nu on which Parabola hackers[1] can
> create pads, but the listing of all pads is public, so that none of
> them are "secret".
>
> [1]: I said "Parabola hackers" as an anti-spam measure; credentials to
> create a pad would be based on inclusion in hackers.git.
>

I think this is a sensible idea, but couldn't possibly comment myself as 
I am not an official.


Josh


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 14 18:26:48 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:26:48 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
Message-ID: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org>

Hello,

I've noticed that there has been much secrecy about the exact mainboard
model of the build server G4JC (Luke R.) and Emulatorman (Andr? Silva)
have proposed.

>From the private communication G4JC and Emulatorman have initiated with
fauno and me:

On 29.03.2017 04:32, Luke wrote:
> I'm shipping Libreboot compatible Mobo/RAM/CPU + heatsinks + paste /
> HDD + SATA cable.

On 29.03.2017 18:15, Tiberiu wrote:
> On 29.03.2017 18:01, Andr? Silva wrote:
>> > It is a x86_64 machine
> I'm very curios what board it is. Is it ASUS KFSN4-DRE? Or ASUS
> KCMA-D8? D510MO? D945GCLF? :-) I'm reading from the libreboot hardware
> compatibility list: https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/

Also, I didn't see on the mailing list any consensus on the budget for
this build server. I believe this goes against the Parabola Social
Contract.

"4. [...] the community is to be included whenever there is a need to
make a decision"

https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_Social_Contract

Knowing this, the Parabola delegate fauno (Nicol?s Reynolds) has
personally expressed concerns about the expenses related to this
proposal especially on the shipping of the chassis/UPS. The dismissal of
fauno's concerns as "unnecessary drama" by G4JC goes against the Fiscal
Sponsorship Agreement.

2. a) **Nicol?s Reynolds is Parabola's Delegate** (the "Delegate") to
   communicate any and all donation-related (including but not limited
   to expenditure) decisions to Ceata's Council.  Ceata will only object
   to the decisions to the extent Parabola is not in compliance with ?
   2(b) or ? 5 of this Agreement, or when the Delegate's communication
   isn't in conjuction with a Parabola document or resource at
   parabola.nu website.

https://git.parabola.nu/~~historic/ceata-agreement.git/tree/Parabola+Ceata_Agreement.markdown

I've tried to be proactive and have come with solutions:

On 28.03.2017 19:58, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> Please excuse me if I'm overstepping here, but what would you say
> about a librebooted KGPe-D16 build server for Parabola hosted in
> Bucharest, Romania?
[...]
> If you believe this could be an option worth considering, I could
> present you a budget (that I believe would cost you less than 400
> USD).

On 29.03.2017 18:24, Tiberiu wrote:
> Maybe we can try to find if someone is traveling from USA to Brazil?
> They could transport the UPS/chassis in their checked-in baggage,
> right?

Later, I learned on the mailing list that the proposed board is a
KFSN4-DRE. This mainboard supports DDR2 RAM and not DDR3 and is in many
aspects inferior to the KGPE-D16 that FSF, Guix and other free software
projects use and I proposed for the same amount of money.

On 07.04.2017 01:47, Luke wrote:
> * KFSN4-DRE - Motherboard (Libreboot compatible, but not re-flashed
> yet, would feel more comfortable for it to be done on delivery anyway)

So, my question is: has the Parabola community been presented and have
you discussed options and the detailed budget for the new build server?
Have you reached a consensus about this for fauno to tell me what needs
to paid for?

Have you discussed location of the new build server? This is relevant
for the shipping/collocation.

I'm looking forward to hearing what you all have to say on this matter.

Tiberiu


From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 18:43:35 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 19:43:35 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>

> So, my question is: has the Parabola community been presented and have
> you discussed options and the detailed budget for the new build server?
> Have you reached a consensus about this for fauno to tell me what needs
> to paid for?

Relevant to this question is a response from Luke, gc4j, 06/04/17 23:47. 
Not sure if anything has changed since.
______________________quote start_____________________
'		I'm putting all the parts together to complete the build server with 
my own personal money. Since Arch is pulling support for i686 in 
November of this year, I wanted to have the thing running and ready to 
go before then.

Currently, what I have:
* KFSN4-DRE - Motherboard (Libreboot compatible, but not re-flashed yet,
would feel more comfortable for it to be done on delivery anyway)
* 2 CPU's AMD Opteron 221
* 32GB RAM
* 1TB Western Digital HDD
* SATA cable
* 2 Dynatron Fan + Heat sinks and thermal paste

There was some discussion about Ceata helping pay for Chasis/UPS/PSU/and
RAM. After seeing all the unnecessary drama and obstruction over the use
of expenses, and the unlikeness of being able to get the server done in
any reasonable amount time, I went ahead and got the Chasis, PSU, and
RAM myself.

That said...

Currently en route to me:
* PSU 500W - EVGA 100-W1-0500-KR
* Phanteks Enthoo Pro Series PH-ES614P_BG Chasis

My estimate (per the specs found here:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811854018) puts
the size of the box around
235 mm x 535 mm x 550 mm (W x H x D)
13.8Kg (for chasis). I estimate at least 5Kg for packing materials and
all the parts installed in the chasis. Cannot confirm this until it has
actually installed.

It is my understanding Ceata was (is?) still waiting on this estimate in
order to see if they could help with UPS shipment costs to Emulatorman's
post office box. Since it is highly unlikely they can "declare" a
package shipped inside the United States from Romania, I already started
saving up for paying the postage myself.
If they would like to help, it is of course appreciated, but it's much
less stressful for me to know that the product can be shipped and arrive
soon without unnecessary fanfare.
________________________quote end______________________________________


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 14 18:58:32 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:58:32 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>

On 14.04.2017 21:43, Josh Branning wrote:
>> So, my question is: has the Parabola community been presented and have
>> you discussed options and the detailed budget for the new build server?
>> Have you reached a consensus about this for fauno to tell me what needs
>> to paid for?
> 
> Relevant to this question is a response from Luke, gc4j, 06/04/17 23:47.

That response has come with considerable delay, after everything has
become public. I have been asked privately to pay $400 USD on 26/03/17
12:07. That is, 10 days earlier. I consider this private request to
violate both the Parabola Social Contract and Parabola-Ceata Fiscal
Sponsorship Agreement.

On 26.03.2017 12:07, Andr? Silva wrote:
> Hi, i made a final budget for our build server installed in Uruguay.

By 26/03/17 has the Parabola community been presented the exact model of
the server mainboard and a detailed budget of the proposed solution for
the build server? By that date, to your knowledge, has a consensus been
reached for fauno to be able tell me what I have to pay for on behalf of
Ceata from the Parabola fund?

Please let me know.

Thanks,
Tiberiu


From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 19:27:37 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 19:27:37 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Proposals for Fiscal Sponsor Successor
In-Reply-To: <58F10660.3060601@ceata.org>
References: <58F10660.3060601@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <b28f25cb-0970-0668-9ad1-2392eacd336a@openmailbox.org>

On 04/14/2017 05:26 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I just finished reading that Bitcoin has become a legal currency in
> Japan and moreover,
>
> "Bitcoin trading in Japanese yen is the second-most liquid market
> globally, according to data compiled by cryptocurrency trading platform
> Gatecoin."
>
> http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/12/bitcoin-price-rises-japan-russia-regulation.html
>
> Since one of the issues brought up by some of the Parabola hackers was
> the inability of Ceata to use bitcoins without converting them in the
> national currency Romanian Leu (RON), I suggest you contact Niibe Yutaka
> (gniibe at fsij.org), the chairman of Free Software Initiative of Japan
> (FSIJ), to ask if his organization could become the next fiscal sponsor
> for Parabola.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Initiative_of_Japan
>
> I know that Niibe and FSIJ are providing the translation of gnu.org in
> Japanese.
>
> You should work together as a community on the text to send Niibe/FSIJ
> and once consensus is reached, one of you could send the e-mail Cc'ing
> the mailing list.
>
> I hope this helps,
> Tiberiu
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>
Thank you for the suggestion, FSIJ does seem like a good idea.



From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 19:28:13 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 19:28:13 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>

On 04/14/2017 06:58 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> On 14.04.2017 21:43, Josh Branning wrote:
>>> So, my question is: has the Parabola community been presented and have
>>> you discussed options and the detailed budget for the new build server?
>>> Have you reached a consensus about this for fauno to tell me what needs
>>> to paid for?
>> Relevant to this question is a response from Luke, gc4j, 06/04/17 23:47.

Josh is correct, that is the current information.
Chasis just arrived, still waiting on power supply to arrive in the mail.

The e-mail he referenced can be found here:
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004889.html


> That response has come with considerable delay, after everything has
> become public. I have been asked privately to pay $400 USD on 26/03/17
> 12:07. That is, 10 days earlier. I consider this private request to
> violate both the Parabola Social Contract and Parabola-Ceata Fiscal
> Sponsorship Agreement.

I assume you are referring to Emulatorman's e-mail which he sent to
fauno and yourself. I was CC'd on it. At the time we only had a
motherboard, cpu, and heat sinks. He provided estimated prices on
shipping products from Urutek, New Egg, and Amazon to complete the
server. (Chasis, ram, power supply)

I've since gone ahead and gotten the other parts myself, using my own
money, as they were cheaper to acquire locally.

Answer to Q1:
Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00



From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 19:29:55 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 19:29:55 +0000
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Create a public pad.parabola.nu
In-Reply-To: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <5ee1dd5c-7987-510e-fa39-58aded312ed1@openmailbox.org>

On 04/14/2017 05:54 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> Sometimes, members of our community want to have a discussion via
> etherpad... and that pad doesn't get shared with the rest of the
> community, and cliques form.
>
> I propose creating pad.parabola.nu on which Parabola hackers[1] can
> create pads, but the listing of all pads is public, so that none of
> them are "secret".
>
> [1]: I said "Parabola hackers" as an anti-spam measure; credentials to
> create a pad would be based on inclusion in hackers.git.
>
+1

Self-hosted etherpad is a good idea.



From srw at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 19:33:37 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:33:37 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170414193337.GE5710@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 07:28:13PM +0000, Luke wrote:
> On 04/14/2017 06:58 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> > On 14.04.2017 21:43, Josh Branning wrote:
> >>> So, my question is: has the Parabola community been presented and have
> >>> you discussed options and the detailed budget for the new build server?
> >>> Have you reached a consensus about this for fauno to tell me what needs
> >>> to paid for?
> >> Relevant to this question is a response from Luke, gc4j, 06/04/17 23:47.
> 
> Josh is correct, that is the current information.
> Chasis just arrived, still waiting on power supply to arrive in the mail.
> 
> The e-mail he referenced can be found here:
> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004889.html
> 
> 
> > That response has come with considerable delay, after everything has
> > become public. I have been asked privately to pay $400 USD on 26/03/17
> > 12:07. That is, 10 days earlier. I consider this private request to
> > violate both the Parabola Social Contract and Parabola-Ceata Fiscal
> > Sponsorship Agreement.
> 
> I assume you are referring to Emulatorman's e-mail which he sent to
> fauno and yourself. I was CC'd on it. At the time we only had a
> motherboard, cpu, and heat sinks. He provided estimated prices on
> shipping products from Urutek, New Egg, and Amazon to complete the
> server. (Chasis, ram, power supply)
> 
> I've since gone ahead and gotten the other parts myself, using my own
> money, as they were cheaper to acquire locally.
> 
> Answer to Q1:
> Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00


i:Exit  -:PrevPg  <Space>:NextPg v:View Attachm.  d:Del  r:Reply  j:Next ?:Help
> to paid for?
> 
> Have you discussed location of the new build server? This is relevant
> for the shipping/collocation.
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing what you all have to say on this matter.
> 
> Tiberiu

I really don't get this. Is this really the changes the Social Contract
is talking about? Has it ever occured to you that Emulatorman wanted to
buy and even pay for this himself for the benefit of the whole community
and Parabola? OK, so let's say that I'm in the future want to port some
games from Lua (or whatever) to C, or even want to do some kernels, and I buy
myself a server or whatever. Is that really the changes that falls under
the Social Contract? Shouldn't the community be happy that I have some
up-to-date devices to maintain Parabola? So what if there were some
talking about this? What harm does it do to the community that the guy
doing all the maintaining wishes himself a build server?

It's like someone has commited a huge crime for talking to eachother
about how this could come true.

Well, as far as I know, those guys (g4jc, Emulatorman) with some direct
donations from others as well made this come true by themselves, so
technically the build server is now not owned by Parabola nor the community.
So if Emulatorman want to use this build server for Parabola or not, is
really up to him. I would guess 'no', after all the shit he and others as
to put up  with, and the resistance they have  met from the very beginning
of this process. The build server could have benifited Parabola, but the
- SF- 1/927: Stig Roar              Re: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consens -- (87%)





> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 19:33:06 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:33:06 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58F123F2.4020504@gmail.com>

> Answer to Q1:
> Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00

I think a thanks is needed, so I'll thank you now.

Josh


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 14 19:40:25 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:40:25 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org>

On 14.04.2017 22:28, Luke wrote:
> On 04/14/2017 06:58 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> On 14.04.2017 21:43, Josh Branning wrote:
>>>> So, my question is: has the Parabola community been presented and have
>>>> you discussed options and the detailed budget for the new build server?
>>>> Have you reached a consensus about this for fauno to tell me what needs
>>>> to paid for?
>>> Relevant to this question is a response from Luke, gc4j, 06/04/17 23:47.
> 
> Josh is correct, that is the current information.
> Chasis just arrived, still waiting on power supply to arrive in the mail.
> 
> The e-mail he referenced can be found here:
> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004889.html
> 
> 
>> That response has come with considerable delay, after everything has
>> become public. I have been asked privately to pay $400 USD on 26/03/17
>> 12:07. That is, 10 days earlier. I consider this private request to
>> violate both the Parabola Social Contract and Parabola-Ceata Fiscal
>> Sponsorship Agreement.
> 
> I assume you are referring to Emulatorman's e-mail which he sent to
> fauno and yourself. I was CC'd on it. At the time we only had a
> motherboard, cpu, and heat sinks. He provided estimated prices on
> shipping products from Urutek, New Egg, and Amazon to complete the
> server. (Chasis, ram, power supply)

To my knowledge, this budget has only been presented privately to fauno
and me, and not publicly to the community. You have dismissed fauno's
concerns as "unnecessary drama", although none of you have presented
publicly the community the exact model of the server mainboard nor the
budget to be approved or not by consensus. And you have urged us to
quickly provide partial funding for your solution for the build server.

> I've since gone ahead and gotten the other parts myself, using my own
> money, as they were cheaper to acquire locally.
> 
> Answer to Q1:
> Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00

You have asked for partial funding from the Parabola fund handled by
Ceata, although you have disregarded Parabola Social Contract,
Ceata-Parabola Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement and Parabola's Delegate.

And please note that if you make a personal fully-funded donation, you
still need the approval of the community to accept the donation.
Otherwise, it's just a donation to Emulatorman and can't be mentioned on
the Donations wiki page of the Parabola community.

I'm sure you understand all of this.

Tiberiu


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 14 19:43:40 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:43:40 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <20170414193337.GE5710@localhost.localdomain>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <20170414193337.GE5710@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <58F1266C.5020104@ceata.org>

On 14.04.2017 22:33, Stig Roar wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 07:28:13PM +0000, Luke wrote:
>> On 04/14/2017 06:58 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>>> On 14.04.2017 21:43, Josh Branning wrote:
>>>>> So, my question is: has the Parabola community been presented and have
>>>>> you discussed options and the detailed budget for the new build server?
>>>>> Have you reached a consensus about this for fauno to tell me what needs
>>>>> to paid for?
>>>> Relevant to this question is a response from Luke, gc4j, 06/04/17 23:47.
>>
>> Josh is correct, that is the current information.
>> Chasis just arrived, still waiting on power supply to arrive in the mail.
>>
>> The e-mail he referenced can be found here:
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004889.html
>>
>>
>>> That response has come with considerable delay, after everything has
>>> become public. I have been asked privately to pay $400 USD on 26/03/17
>>> 12:07. That is, 10 days earlier. I consider this private request to
>>> violate both the Parabola Social Contract and Parabola-Ceata Fiscal
>>> Sponsorship Agreement.
>>
>> I assume you are referring to Emulatorman's e-mail which he sent to
>> fauno and yourself. I was CC'd on it. At the time we only had a
>> motherboard, cpu, and heat sinks. He provided estimated prices on
>> shipping products from Urutek, New Egg, and Amazon to complete the
>> server. (Chasis, ram, power supply)
>>
>> I've since gone ahead and gotten the other parts myself, using my own
>> money, as they were cheaper to acquire locally.
>>
>> Answer to Q1:
>> Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00
> 
> 
> i:Exit  -:PrevPg  <Space>:NextPg v:View Attachm.  d:Del  r:Reply  j:Next ?:Help
>> to paid for?
>>
>> Have you discussed location of the new build server? This is relevant
>> for the shipping/collocation.
>>
>> I'm looking forward to hearing what you all have to say on this matter.
>>
>> Tiberiu
> 
> I really don't get this. Is this really the changes the Social Contract
> is talking about? Has it ever occured to you that Emulatorman wanted to
> buy and even pay for this himself for the benefit of the whole community
> and Parabola? OK, so let's say that I'm in the future want to port some
> games from Lua (or whatever) to C, or even want to do some kernels, and I buy
> myself a server or whatever. Is that really the changes that falls under
> the Social Contract? Shouldn't the community be happy that I have some
> up-to-date devices to maintain Parabola? So what if there were some
> talking about this? What harm does it do to the community that the guy
> doing all the maintaining wishes himself a build server?
> 
> It's like someone has commited a huge crime for talking to eachother
> about how this could come true.
> 
> Well, as far as I know, those guys (g4jc, Emulatorman) with some direct
> donations from others as well made this come true by themselves, so
> technically the build server is now not owned by Parabola nor the community.
> So if Emulatorman want to use this build server for Parabola or not, is
> really up to him. I would guess 'no', after all the shit he and others as
> to put up  with, and the resistance they have  met from the very beginning
> of this process. The build server could have benifited Parabola, but the
> - SF- 1/927: Stig Roar              Re: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consens -- (87%)

It's never a problem to pay yourself for a machine that you would like
to use for the benefit of the community. But to ask for a partial
funding of the project, you need to get the okay from the community.
Publicly. These are the rules the community has agreed to.

I hope you can understand this.

Thanks,
Tiberiu


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 14 19:57:38 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:57:38 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Create a public pad.parabola.nu
In-Reply-To: <58F11228.7080002@gmail.com>
References: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <58F11228.7080002@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87inm6iwy5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Josh Branning <lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com> writes:

> On 14/04/17 18:54, Luke Shumaker wrote:
>> Sometimes, members of our community want to have a discussion via
>> etherpad... and that pad doesn't get shared with the rest of the
>> community, and cliques form.
>>
>> I propose creating pad.parabola.nu on which Parabola hackers[1] can
>> create pads, but the listing of all pads is public, so that none of
>> them are "secret".
>>
>> [1]: I said "Parabola hackers" as an anti-spam measure; credentials to
>> create a pad would be based on inclusion in hackers.git.
>>
>
> I think this is a sensible idea, but couldn't possibly comment myself as 
> I am not an official.

it doesn't need to be authenticated.  in my experience pads are almost
never vandalized (i remember one case where the person vandalizing them
had auto-translate on chrome enabled and it messed up the text) and
they're much richer when many people is involved.  you can always save
them using the star icon.

+1 for an open pad

-- 

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From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 19:58:24 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:58:24 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>

>> Answer to Q1:
>> Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00
>
> You have asked for partial funding from the Parabola fund handled by
> Ceata, although you have disregarded Parabola Social Contract,
> Ceata-Parabola Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement and Parabola's Delegate.
>
> And please note that if you make a personal fully-funded donation, you
> still need the approval of the community to accept the donation.
> Otherwise, it's just a donation to Emulatorman and can't be mentioned on
> the Donations wiki page of the Parabola community.

Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will 
be donated to, if it is to be donated.

I wouldn't be surprised, after all this stuff that's happened, if it 
were to turn out to be a donation to Emulatorman, instead of Parabola, 
because lets be honest, not exactly all in the community have been nice. 
Because of that, I think GC4J has the express right to put two fingers 
up to Parabola because of this, if he so desires. Of course he can, 
because he paid for the build server himself.

On the other hand, I don't speak for all of the community, but I think 
most would accept the donation of a build server with open arms if they 
were given the option.

Josh


From srw at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 20:00:27 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:00:27 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <20170414200027.GF5710@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 10:40:25PM +0300, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> On 14.04.2017 22:28, Luke wrote:
> > On 04/14/2017 06:58 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> >> On 14.04.2017 21:43, Josh Branning wrote:
> >>>> So, my question is: has the Parabola community been presented and have
> >>>> you discussed options and the detailed budget for the new build server?
> >>>> Have you reached a consensus about this for fauno to tell me what needs
> >>>> to paid for?
> >>> Relevant to this question is a response from Luke, gc4j, 06/04/17 23:47.
> > 
> > Josh is correct, that is the current information.
> > Chasis just arrived, still waiting on power supply to arrive in the mail.
> > 
> > The e-mail he referenced can be found here:
> > https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004889.html
> > 
> > 
> >> That response has come with considerable delay, after everything has
> >> become public. I have been asked privately to pay $400 USD on 26/03/17
> >> 12:07. That is, 10 days earlier. I consider this private request to
> >> violate both the Parabola Social Contract and Parabola-Ceata Fiscal
> >> Sponsorship Agreement.
> > 
> > I assume you are referring to Emulatorman's e-mail which he sent to
> > fauno and yourself. I was CC'd on it. At the time we only had a
> > motherboard, cpu, and heat sinks. He provided estimated prices on
> > shipping products from Urutek, New Egg, and Amazon to complete the
> > server. (Chasis, ram, power supply)
> 
> To my knowledge, this budget has only been presented privately to fauno
> and me, and not publicly to the community. You have dismissed fauno's
> concerns as "unnecessary drama", although none of you have presented
> publicly the community the exact model of the server mainboard nor the
> budget to be approved or not by consensus. And you have urged us to
> quickly provide partial funding for your solution for the build server.
> 
> > I've since gone ahead and gotten the other parts myself, using my own
> > money, as they were cheaper to acquire locally.
> > 
> > Answer to Q1:
> > Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00
> 
> You have asked for partial funding from the Parabola fund handled by
> Ceata, although you have disregarded Parabola Social Contract,
> Ceata-Parabola Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement and Parabola's Delegate.
> 
> And please note that if you make a personal fully-funded donation, you
> still need the approval of the community to accept the donation.
> Otherwise, it's just a donation to Emulatorman and can't be mentioned on
> the Donations wiki page of the Parabola community.
> 
> I'm sure you understand all of this.
> 
> Tiberiu

What are you saying? Are you saying that if I, for example, would like
to donate to one or more devs, the community has got to approve it? Or
do you mean if the devs themselves are making donations the community
has to approve it? Obviously it's only the software that is free in this
sytem. 

I think my conclution to all this would then be that g4jc and
emulatorman should take their server and do something useful with it
elsewhere. Perhaps they also could enjoy their donations in peace. 

I thought that individual donations to devs also could be mentioned on
the Parabola site? No? 

This is getting weird. 


> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From srw at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 20:03:26 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:03:26 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170414200326.GG5710@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 08:58:24PM +0100, Josh Branning wrote:
> > > Answer to Q1:
> > > Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00
> > 
> > You have asked for partial funding from the Parabola fund handled by
> > Ceata, although you have disregarded Parabola Social Contract,
> > Ceata-Parabola Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement and Parabola's Delegate.
> > 
> > And please note that if you make a personal fully-funded donation, you
> > still need the approval of the community to accept the donation.
> > Otherwise, it's just a donation to Emulatorman and can't be mentioned on
> > the Donations wiki page of the Parabola community.
> 
> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will be
> donated to, if it is to be donated.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised, after all this stuff that's happened, if it were to
> turn out to be a donation to Emulatorman, instead of Parabola, because lets
> be honest, not exactly all in the community have been nice. Because of that,
> I think GC4J has the express right to put two fingers up to Parabola because
> of this, if he so desires. Of course he can, because he paid for the build
> server himself.
> 
> On the other hand, I don't speak for all of the community, but I think most
> would accept the donation of a build server with open arms if they were
> given the option.
> 
> Josh

+1

> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 14 20:07:13 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 23:07:13 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58F12BF1.9020909@ceata.org>

On 14.04.2017 22:58, Josh Branning wrote:
>>> Answer to Q1:
>>> Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00
>>
>> You have asked for partial funding from the Parabola fund handled by
>> Ceata, although you have disregarded Parabola Social Contract,
>> Ceata-Parabola Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement and Parabola's Delegate.
>>
>> And please note that if you make a personal fully-funded donation, you
>> still need the approval of the community to accept the donation.
>> Otherwise, it's just a donation to Emulatorman and can't be mentioned on
>> the Donations wiki page of the Parabola community.
> 
> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will
> be donated to, if it is to be donated.

He meant it for Parabola and asked for partial funding from the Parabola
fund, without getting the approval from the community for the spending.
Are you really missing the point here?

We wouldn't be discussing this for two weeks now if GC4J wanted to make
a full donation to Emulatorman to help him in his work.

Tiberiu


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 14 20:11:30 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 17:11:30 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Removal of my hacker profile from the website
In-Reply-To: <c8d87fa9-c98a-20b8-11ee-9ef968cde684@parlementum.red>
References: <c8d87fa9-c98a-20b8-11ee-9ef968cde684@parlementum.red>
Message-ID: <87fuhaiwb1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Charles Roth <encycl at parlementum.red> writes:

> I am quite upset, I feel this is a slap in the face.
>
> I haven't contributed to packaging lately, but I roam the Fediverse
> advocating for Parabola. I paid for domains for several years, I wrote
> the first wiki pages.
>
> Who removed me? Why?
>
> Very disappointed

i think we should move the hackers page to the wiki so we have more
accountability on these kind of changes.

also i just noticed there's a 'support staff' category that comes from
archlinux and wasn't discussed if it really had a place here.  when we
thought about ourselves as parabola hackers we weren't thinking hackers
were the people coding or making packages (in fact a packager was a
package monkey because it's such a dull job) and others would be
support, trusted users or whatnot.

we even had a lengthy discussion about who could have voice and vote and
we decided not to rule ourselves by majority but by consensus, so
everyone involved has a voice on what's going to happen.  (this is why
when people come here asking hackers to do something i tell them they
can do it themselves and be hackers too.)

i propose to remove this category and move the hackers page to the wiki,
if not removing both altogether.  if anyone wants to be there, they can
ask here if others consider them to be listed (community & hackers).

-- 
http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/
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From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 14 20:14:39 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 23:14:39 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58F12DAF.8020500@ceata.org>

On 14.04.2017 22:58, Josh Branning wrote:
> I think most would accept the donation of a build server with open arms
> if they were given the option

Not necessarily. If said build server is expensive to keep it powered
on, for instance.

Tiberiu


From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 20:17:20 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:17:20 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F12BF1.9020909@ceata.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
 <58F12BF1.9020909@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58F12E50.7070606@gmail.com>

>> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will
>> be donated to, if it is to be donated.
>
> He meant it for Parabola and asked for partial funding from the Parabola
> fund, without getting the approval from the community for the spending.
> Are you really missing the point here?

He did, but then he went and paid for it himself instead: Very generous 
of him don't you think, regardless of who he donates it to?


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 14 20:23:38 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:23:38 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Create a public pad.parabola.nu
In-Reply-To: <87inm6iwy5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <58F11228.7080002@gmail.com>
 <87inm6iwy5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <87a87irb5h.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:57:38 -0400,
fauno wrote:
> 
> [1  <multipart/signed (7bit)>]
> [1.1  <text/plain (quoted-printable)>]
> Josh Branning <lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > On 14/04/17 18:54, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> >> Sometimes, members of our community want to have a discussion via
> >> etherpad... and that pad doesn't get shared with the rest of the
> >> community, and cliques form.
> >>
> >> I propose creating pad.parabola.nu on which Parabola hackers[1] can
> >> create pads, but the listing of all pads is public, so that none of
> >> them are "secret".
> >>
> >> [1]: I said "Parabola hackers" as an anti-spam measure; credentials to
> >> create a pad would be based on inclusion in hackers.git.
> >>
> >
> > I think this is a sensible idea, but couldn't possibly comment myself as 
> > I am not an official.
> 
> it doesn't need to be authenticated.  in my experience pads are almost
> never vandalized (i remember one case where the person vandalizing them
> had auto-translate on chrome enabled and it messed up the text) and
> they're much richer when many people is involved.  you can always save
> them using the star icon.
> 
> +1 for an open pad

That works when the pad IDs/URLs are basically random, secret tokens.
When the listing of them is public, I'm not sure the same sanctity
would exist.

Bots are my concern moreso than human trolls.  Perhaps a captcha or
somesuch?  Though human trolls too; on HN I've read the horror stories
of running a public pastebin service.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 14 20:25:13 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 23:25:13 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F12E50.7070606@gmail.com>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
 <58F12BF1.9020909@ceata.org> <58F12E50.7070606@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58F13029.9090502@ceata.org>

On 14.04.2017 23:17, Josh Branning wrote:
>>> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will
>>> be donated to, if it is to be donated.
>>
>> He meant it for Parabola and asked for partial funding from the Parabola
>> fund, without getting the approval from the community for the spending.
>> Are you really missing the point here?
> 
> He did, but then he went and paid for it himself instead: Very generous
> of him don't you think, regardless of who he donates it to?

I'm sorry, I'm not interested in who plays hero around here after
forcing our hands by breaking the rules. I'm only interested in
completing my pro-bono service for the Parabola project until June 5th.
And I've been accused of a lot of things by people who don't care about
the rules on which this project has organized itself.

Do you honestly believe it's scalable for Parabola to have tyrants who
play heroes when things go south?

Tiberiu


From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 20:33:56 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:33:56 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F13029.9090502@ceata.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
 <58F12BF1.9020909@ceata.org> <58F12E50.7070606@gmail.com>
 <58F13029.9090502@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58F13234.6040203@gmail.com>

On 14/04/17 21:25, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> On 14.04.2017 23:17, Josh Branning wrote:
>>>> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will
>>>> be donated to, if it is to be donated.
>>>
>>> He meant it for Parabola and asked for partial funding from the Parabola
>>> fund, without getting the approval from the community for the spending.
>>> Are you really missing the point here?
>>
>> He did, but then he went and paid for it himself instead: Very generous
>> of him don't you think, regardless of who he donates it to?
>
> I'm sorry, I'm not interested in who plays hero around here after
> forcing our hands by breaking the rules. I'm only interested in
> completing my pro-bono service for the Parabola project until June 5th.
> And I've been accused of a lot of things by people who don't care about
> the rules on which this project has organized itself.
>
> Do you honestly believe it's scalable for Parabola to have tyrants who
> play heroes when things go south?

I don't doubt that you did what was required of you, and did it well. 
There wasn't a public consensus on the cost of the build server at the 
time, and you denied the funds. AFAIK that is what was expected of you 
and ceata.

Hence, there is not much of a problem, partially because you did your 
job, and partially because gc4j said, in the end, he would pay for the 
build server out of his own funds.

Josh


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 14 20:34:30 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:34:30 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Removal of my hacker profile from the website
In-Reply-To: <87fuhaiwb1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <c8d87fa9-c98a-20b8-11ee-9ef968cde684@parlementum.red>
 <87fuhaiwb1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <878tn2rand.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:11:30 -0400,
fauno wrote:
> i think we should move the hackers page to the wiki so we have more
> accountability on these kind of changes.

At one point, the idea was that the canonical source of information
for that page was hackers.git, and that the parabolaweb page would
manually be kept in sync for a while, but eventually code would be
written to make that happen automagically.  That code was never
written.  Perhaps we (I?) should prioritize writing that code now?

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 14 20:40:43 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 23:40:43 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F13234.6040203@gmail.com>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
 <58F12BF1.9020909@ceata.org> <58F12E50.7070606@gmail.com>
 <58F13029.9090502@ceata.org> <58F13234.6040203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58F133CB.4020000@ceata.org>

On 14.04.2017 23:33, Josh Branning wrote:
> On 14/04/17 21:25, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> On 14.04.2017 23:17, Josh Branning wrote:
>>>>> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will
>>>>> be donated to, if it is to be donated.
>>>>
>>>> He meant it for Parabola and asked for partial funding from the
>>>> Parabola
>>>> fund, without getting the approval from the community for the spending.
>>>> Are you really missing the point here?
>>>
>>> He did, but then he went and paid for it himself instead: Very generous
>>> of him don't you think, regardless of who he donates it to?
>>
>> I'm sorry, I'm not interested in who plays hero around here after
>> forcing our hands by breaking the rules. I'm only interested in
>> completing my pro-bono service for the Parabola project until June 5th.
>> And I've been accused of a lot of things by people who don't care about
>> the rules on which this project has organized itself.
>>
>> Do you honestly believe it's scalable for Parabola to have tyrants who
>> play heroes when things go south?
> 
> I don't doubt that you did what was required of you, and did it well.
> There wasn't a public consensus on the cost of the build server at the
> time, and you denied the funds. AFAIK that is what was expected of you
> and ceata.

I have never denied funds. Not this time, not ever. Nor fauno. We both
have tried in a proactive manner to help any initiative we have been
presented. Usually fauno analyzes the budget and proposes less expensive
options, then asks them to submit the detailed budget to the community
on the public mailing list for consensus. And I help with the invoicing
and payment, once fauno is able to give me the okay from the community.

This is how things have always worked and it's the agreed way.

Tiberiu


From srw at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 20:43:50 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:43:50 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F12BF1.9020909@ceata.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
 <58F12BF1.9020909@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <20170414204350.GH5710@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:07:13PM +0300, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> On 14.04.2017 22:58, Josh Branning wrote:
> >>> Answer to Q1:
> >>> Budget cost for build server to Ceata and community = $0.00
> >>
> >> You have asked for partial funding from the Parabola fund handled by
> >> Ceata, although you have disregarded Parabola Social Contract,
> >> Ceata-Parabola Fiscal Sponsorship Agreement and Parabola's Delegate.
> >>
> >> And please note that if you make a personal fully-funded donation, you
> >> still need the approval of the community to accept the donation.
> >> Otherwise, it's just a donation to Emulatorman and can't be mentioned on
> >> the Donations wiki page of the Parabola community.
> > 
> > Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will
> > be donated to, if it is to be donated.
> 
> He meant it for Parabola and asked for partial funding from the Parabola
> fund, without getting the approval from the community for the spending.
> Are you really missing the point here?
> 
> We wouldn't be discussing this for two weeks now if GC4J wanted to make
> a full donation to Emulatorman to help him in his work.
> 
> Tiberiu

This whole affair is just sad. Even though I agree with the main
principles of consensus, open discussion and other things mentioned, I
think this somewhat mounts to rigidity, hair-splitting and some kind of
a stuggle for power. Would it be so hard to support one of our own even
if some would claim that he didn't follow the book? Is it really necessary to
beat the shit out of someone for something this small? Is it really that
hard to give someone the benfit of doubt and support someone that this
far has done _everything_ for Parabola? It's like we're discussing the
Talmud or if one can smoke on the Sabbath! I mean seriously?!? "Oh no,
he drew a car before sunset! Crucify him!" For how long are you going to
split hairs? Isn't it wonderful if the devs have a server?!? Wouldn't it
be wonderful if this could help Parabola keeping the kernels up to date
and thus secured? You don't think the intention were to help Parabola?
And what's this with the donation, removing donations from the wiki
site, and blah blah blah ...

Here's no hope, joy or gratitude or anything positive at all! This is a
very dark place! Continue down this path, and you'll end up with fewer
devs, no server, no maintenance and nothing at all. Who wanna work under
such conditions? I think that those taking some initiative (even if it
by-passed some 'rules' according to some) and forcing this ship through
this storm should get credit and honor for their work. Instead of no
server, Parabola now actually have a build server, _if_ g4jc even
chooses to stay in this dark valley, and there will also be a way for us
to run it (despite costs for electricity), because many enough actually
want that to happen! 

In a normal universe people would be happy and grateful that someone
actually sees this through (and I bet it hasn't even occurd to them to
remove donations or people from any lists of any sort). Even in the
smallest enterprise those conserned would be over-joyed for finally
having a build server of their own. I mean, in a _normal_ universe, that
is. 

S



> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 20:49:50 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:49:50 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F133CB.4020000@ceata.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
 <58F12BF1.9020909@ceata.org> <58F12E50.7070606@gmail.com>
 <58F13029.9090502@ceata.org> <58F13234.6040203@gmail.com>
 <58F133CB.4020000@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58F135EE.9010805@gmail.com>

> I have never denied funds. Not this time, not ever. Nor fauno. We both
> have tried in a proactive manner to help any initiative we have been
> presented. Usually fauno analyzes the budget and proposes less expensive
> options, then asks them to submit the detailed budget to the community
> on the public mailing list for consensus. And I help with the invoicing
> and payment, once fauno is able to give me the okay from the community.
>
> This is how things have always worked and it's the agreed way.
>

The funds were not given without a public consensus. That is the way it 
was supposed to work, and that is the way it did work.

AFAIK, gc4j does not wish to be reimbursed, so there is no problem.


Josh


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 14 21:16:20 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:16:20 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Removal of my hacker profile from the website
In-Reply-To: <878tn2rand.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <c8d87fa9-c98a-20b8-11ee-9ef968cde684@parlementum.red>
 <87fuhaiwb1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <878tn2rand.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <87tw5q3d23.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> writes:

> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:11:30 -0400,
> fauno wrote:
>> i think we should move the hackers page to the wiki so we have more
>> accountability on these kind of changes.
>
> At one point, the idea was that the canonical source of information
> for that page was hackers.git, and that the parabolaweb page would
> manually be kept in sync for a while, but eventually code would be
> written to make that happen automagically.  That code was never
> written.  Perhaps we (I?) should prioritize writing that code now?

i'm ok with it if you want

-- 
P)
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 14 21:39:25 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 17:39:25 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Asking Gandi for sponsorship for the .org domain
Message-ID: <8737dar7n6.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Hi all,

All of this recent talk about sponsorship reminded me that the
parabolagnulinux.org isn't sponsored, and that individual hackers have
been paying for it this whole time (AFAIK, either encyclomundi or
myself).  I paid for it last November because I just wanted it taken
care of, and didn't want to deal with the hassle of asking for
sponsorship.  At the time, I made a remark that we'd have to remember
to ask Gandi to sponsor it for us sometime before 2017-11, the same
way they do the parabola.nu domain.

So I've created a pad for a draft of the email that I (or whoever
wants to take responsibility for it) will be sending to our POC at
Gandi about sponsorship for the .org domain as well.

  https://pad.riseup.net/p/eKDBMsJHXJjy

I'm not terribly good at writing these, I think that everything I
write comes off as greedy or corny or something.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 14 21:44:14 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:44:14 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87r30u3brl.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Josh Branning <lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com> writes:
> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will 
> be donated to, if it is to be donated.

so a few issues to be solved:

* is g4jc build server donation a donation to parabola or to
  emulatorman?

* if it's a donation to parabola, do we give it to emulatorman to host
  or some other parabola hacker could host it instead?

* do we want to pay the shipment price?  does it still amount to 400
  USD?

* do we want to buy an ups to accompany this build server?

* who will have remote access to this build server?

* other questions people can have

-- 

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 14 21:12:00 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:12:00 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Create a public pad.parabola.nu
In-Reply-To: <87a87irb5h.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <58F11228.7080002@gmail.com>
 <87inm6iwy5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87a87irb5h.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <87wpam3d9b.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> writes:
> That works when the pad IDs/URLs are basically random, secret tokens.
> When the listing of them is public, I'm not sure the same sanctity
> would exist.
>
> Bots are my concern moreso than human trolls.  Perhaps a captcha or
> somesuch?  Though human trolls too; on HN I've read the horror stories
> of running a public pastebin service.

i run several open pads and i never saw that happening.  but again i
don't run public services as big as riseup.net (yet!)

bots would need to understand js and websockets to vandalize a pad...

-- 
:>
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 14 22:22:32 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 19:22:32 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Create a public pad.parabola.nu
In-Reply-To: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87d1ceri1e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <f31dde5a-2cc1-20f1-c5b0-be35b33b0320@openmailbox.org>

+1

El 14/04/17 a las 14:54, Luke Shumaker escribi?:
> Sometimes, members of our community want to have a discussion via
> etherpad... and that pad doesn't get shared with the rest of the
> community, and cliques form.
> 
> I propose creating pad.parabola.nu on which Parabola hackers[1] can
> create pads, but the listing of all pads is public, so that none of
> them are "secret".
> 
> [1]: I said "Parabola hackers" as an anti-spam measure; credentials to
> create a pad would be based on inclusion in hackers.git.
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox:
EF62A7ABCFADD97088FFE925A2F17F0711B49CAC155871B9823A9E9D0D4F9A38077AB0FA3791
GNUSocial: @megver82 at gnusocial.net
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Fri Apr 14 22:28:50 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 00:28:50 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
Message-ID: <20170414222850.GB821@athena>

Not so long ago there was a big bruhaha over the qt5-webengine package
and whether or not it was free. I am not going to bring up the specifics
of that issue, as it has its own thread, but I dislike the way that the
situation was handled and I believe it can be improved.

First and foremost, I disliked how hard it was for me to find any
evidence whatsoever about the topic. I also dislike how when the
evidence was placed initially it was not put to the test either (much of
it was actually pretty old). I also disliked how long it ended up taking
with the lack of evidence that I saw.

I am not against removing packages temporarily until freedom issues are
either proven non-existent or solved (and permanently if neither), but I
believe there should be a more strict policy on the matter so that one
can easily analyze the information and so we aren't all running around
like headless chickens having something that may be perfectly fine Free
Software being blacklisted.

My proposal is the following: when someone brings up a freedom issue (or
even privacy, for that matter) they should also links to the information
that lead them to this conclusion, once we see that these links have
something behind them (a quick skim through the links) we can put in
place the temporary quarantine of the package. After this point all
information regarding the freedom issues with the package should be
concentrated in one place (public place where everyone can see it) and a
more thorough investigation of the matter (finding exact files that are
non-free) should take place. If no actual evidence is found or the
evidence has *all* been countered after X amount of time (I think a
month or two should do) then the package is taken out of quarantine
until more concrete evidence can be found. If evidence is found and
cannot be countered then the package is labelled permanently as non-free
until either upstream fixes the freedom issues (which *should be
reported to upstream when found*) or we create a -libre package for it.

The most important thing I want to be taken away from this is that
information on the freedom issues of a package should be *easily
available*. I shouldn't have to be asking absolutely everyone in the
community who has the actual links so I can verify for my own eyes.
What's more, the more eyes we have on the issue the more information we
can obtain and the faster we can solve things.

I brought up the qt5-webengine issue as an example, I did not send this
e-mail to talk about it directly but something I noticed as a
consequence of it. So please let's not make this thread about that
(since I can see it coming).

With a policy similar to this I believe we'll be able to handle these
freedom issues in a much more orderly, organized, and effective manner.

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 14 23:31:22 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:31:22 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <20170414222850.GB821@athena>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena>
Message-ID: <87a87i36t1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

"Nicol?s A. Ortega" <deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net> writes:
> My proposal is the following: when someone brings up a freedom issue (or
> even privacy, for that matter) they should also links to the information
> that lead them to this conclusion, once we see that these links have
> something behind them (a quick skim through the links) we can put in
> place the temporary quarantine of the package. After this point all
> information regarding the freedom issues with the package should be
> concentrated in one place (public place where everyone can see it) and a
> more thorough investigation of the matter (finding exact files that are
> non-free) should take place. If no actual evidence is found or the
> evidence has *all* been countered after X amount of time (I think a
> month or two should do) then the package is taken out of quarantine
> until more concrete evidence can be found. If evidence is found and
> cannot be countered then the package is labelled permanently as non-free
> until either upstream fixes the freedom issues (which *should be
> reported to upstream when found*) or we create a -libre package for it.
>
> The most important thing I want to be taken away from this is that
> information on the freedom issues of a package should be *easily
> available*. I shouldn't have to be asking absolutely everyone in the
> community who has the actual links so I can verify for my own eyes.
> What's more, the more eyes we have on the issue the more information we
> can obtain and the faster we can solve things.
>
> I brought up the qt5-webengine issue as an example, I did not send this
> e-mail to talk about it directly but something I noticed as a
> consequence of it. So please let's not make this thread about that
> (since I can see it coming).
>
> With a policy similar to this I believe we'll be able to handle these
> freedom issues in a much more orderly, organized, and effective manner.

+1 would you open a pad?  then it can be put on the wiki.

contacting/involving upstream should be a requisite too, in the past
we've failed to do so and i remember one case where they contacted us
about it.  it was about syslog-ng documentation license, which at the
time of blacklisting was cc-by-sa-nc (iirc) and it was going to be
changed to cc-by-sa (which i guess they did, because i see syslog-ng in
repos now).

-- 
http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/
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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Sat Apr 15 00:15:45 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 02:15:45 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <87a87i36t1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <87a87i36t1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <20170415001545.GC821@athena>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 08:31:22PM -0300, fauno wrote:
> "Nicol?s A. Ortega" <deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net> writes:
> > My proposal is the following: when someone brings up a freedom issue (or
> > even privacy, for that matter) they should also links to the information
> > that lead them to this conclusion, once we see that these links have
> > something behind them (a quick skim through the links) we can put in
> > place the temporary quarantine of the package. After this point all
> > information regarding the freedom issues with the package should be
> > concentrated in one place (public place where everyone can see it) and a
> > more thorough investigation of the matter (finding exact files that are
> > non-free) should take place. If no actual evidence is found or the
> > evidence has *all* been countered after X amount of time (I think a
> > month or two should do) then the package is taken out of quarantine
> > until more concrete evidence can be found. If evidence is found and
> > cannot be countered then the package is labelled permanently as non-free
> > until either upstream fixes the freedom issues (which *should be
> > reported to upstream when found*) or we create a -libre package for it.
> >
> > The most important thing I want to be taken away from this is that
> > information on the freedom issues of a package should be *easily
> > available*. I shouldn't have to be asking absolutely everyone in the
> > community who has the actual links so I can verify for my own eyes.
> > What's more, the more eyes we have on the issue the more information we
> > can obtain and the faster we can solve things.
> >
> > I brought up the qt5-webengine issue as an example, I did not send this
> > e-mail to talk about it directly but something I noticed as a
> > consequence of it. So please let's not make this thread about that
> > (since I can see it coming).
> >
> > With a policy similar to this I believe we'll be able to handle these
> > freedom issues in a much more orderly, organized, and effective manner.
> 
> +1 would you open a pad?  then it can be put on the wiki.
> 
> contacting/involving upstream should be a requisite too, in the past
> we've failed to do so and i remember one case where they contacted us
> about it.  it was about syslog-ng documentation license, which at the
> time of blacklisting was cc-by-sa-nc (iirc) and it was going to be
> changed to cc-by-sa (which i guess they did, because i see syslog-ng in
> repos now).
> 
> -- 
> http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/

Alright, I made an etherpad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/QuarantinePolicyDraft

Y'all are greatly encouraged to edit it and improve the draft. Hope this
helps. (^_^)

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sat Apr 15 01:20:07 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:20:07 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <87a87i36t1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <87a87i36t1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <87wpampiuw.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 19:31:22 -0400,
fauno wrote:
> contacting/involving upstream should be a requisite too, in the past
> we've failed to do so and i remember one case where they contacted us
> about it.  it was about syslog-ng documentation license, which at the
> time of blacklisting was cc-by-sa-nc (iirc) and it was going to be
> changed to cc-by-sa (which i guess they did, because i see syslog-ng in
> repos now).

That was a really weird one.  We *were* going to contact upstream; I
even remember a pad where we composed the message we were sending
them.  It just... never actually got sent.  They happily changed the
license once they were aware that it was an issue, but were miffed
that we blacklisted it without contacting them first.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sat Apr 15 01:36:25 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:36:25 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <20170414222850.GB821@athena>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena>
Message-ID: <87vaq6pi3q.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:28:50 -0400,
Nicol?s A. Ortega wrote:
> My proposal is the following: when someone brings up a freedom issue (or
> even privacy, for that matter) they should also links to the information
> that lead them to this conclusion, once we see that these links have
> something behind them (a quick skim through the links) we can put in
> place the temporary quarantine of the package. After this point all
> information regarding the freedom issues with the package should be
> concentrated in one place (public place where everyone can see it) and a
> more thorough investigation of the matter (finding exact files that are
> non-free) should take place. If no actual evidence is found or the
> evidence has *all* been countered after X amount of time (I think a
> month or two should do) then the package is taken out of quarantine
> until more concrete evidence can be found. If evidence is found and
> cannot be countered then the package is labelled permanently as non-free
> until either upstream fixes the freedom issues (which *should be
> reported to upstream when found*) or we create a -libre package for it.

As attractive as that proposal is, it doesn't allow for quickly
handling uncontroversially nonfree packages.

And really, the Parabola dev community hasn't generally been receptive
to big ol' processes they have to step through.

> The most important thing I want to be taken away from this is that
> information on the freedom issues of a package should be *easily
> available*. I shouldn't have to be asking absolutely everyone in the
> community who has the actual links so I can verify for my own eyes.
> What's more, the more eyes we have on the issue the more information we
> can obtain and the faster we can solve things.

qt5-webengine was actually one of the better cases.  There have been
packages blacklisted with *no* public discussion or documentation (for
example, libglvnd).

In blacklist.txt, there is a field for a 'ref' referencing Debian,
LibrePlanet, Savannah, Fedora, or Parabola (our bug tracker), for
where you can read about justification for it being blacklisted.

Perhaps we should make this field mandatory?

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sat Apr 15 01:59:43 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:59:43 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <20170414200027.GF5710@localhost.localdomain>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org>
 <20170414200027.GF5710@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <87tw5qph0w.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:00:27 -0400,
Stig Roar wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 10:40:25PM +0300, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> > still need the approval of the community to accept the donation.
> > Otherwise, it's just a donation to Emulatorman and can't be mentioned on
> > the Donations wiki page of the Parabola community.
> 
> What are you saying? Are you saying that if I, for example, would like
> to donate to one or more devs, the community has got to approve it?

No, just that

	if community_approves(donation)
	then
		- The donation can be considered a "donation" to
		  "Parabola" through "Ceata" (with whatever tax
		  implications that has)
		- The donation can be listed on the Donations wiki
                  page (https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations)
	else
		- The donation must be considered a "gift" to the
		  individual recipient (with whatever tax implications
		  that has)
		- The donation cannot be listed on the Donations wiki
                  page

That should have been pretty clear from the "you still need
... Otherwise ..." structure of tct's statement.

----

Given the heightened emotions surrounding this discussion (whether you
believe they are justified or not), I suggest that everyone be
extra-careful when reading whatever they reply to, and to give the
author as much benefit-of-the-doubt as you can muster.

It's all too easy to interpret a misunderstanding as maliciously
mis-characterizing the parent message, rather than as a genuine
misunderstanding.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Sat Apr 15 09:20:18 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:20:18 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <87vaq6pi3q.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <87vaq6pi3q.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <20170415092018.GA855@athena>

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 09:36:25PM -0400, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:28:50 -0400,
> Nicol?s A. Ortega wrote:
> > My proposal is the following: when someone brings up a freedom issue (or
> > even privacy, for that matter) they should also links to the information
> > that lead them to this conclusion, once we see that these links have
> > something behind them (a quick skim through the links) we can put in
> > place the temporary quarantine of the package. After this point all
> > information regarding the freedom issues with the package should be
> > concentrated in one place (public place where everyone can see it) and a
> > more thorough investigation of the matter (finding exact files that are
> > non-free) should take place. If no actual evidence is found or the
> > evidence has *all* been countered after X amount of time (I think a
> > month or two should do) then the package is taken out of quarantine
> > until more concrete evidence can be found. If evidence is found and
> > cannot be countered then the package is labelled permanently as non-free
> > until either upstream fixes the freedom issues (which *should be
> > reported to upstream when found*) or we create a -libre package for it.
> 
> As attractive as that proposal is, it doesn't allow for quickly
> handling uncontroversially nonfree packages.
> 

I don't see why not, someone will end up being affected and that person
will take interest in why the package was removed. Either way, the main
idea is that there should be a single place where all the evidence is
accumulated.

Also, the uncontroversial non-free packages tend to be either small
packages (which can be easily verified if they are non-free, therefore
the process I suggested shouldn't take too long) or simply not even
source available (meaning that there's no question about the freeness of
the software). This would also help us to get into the habit of
providing proper evidence even if it may seem obvious to us. I still
think that a concentrated place should be created for this.

> And really, the Parabola dev community hasn't generally been receptive
> to big ol' processes they have to step through.
> 

They may not be, but being organized will help in the long-run as
Parabola becomes a larger project. The bigger you get the more chaotic
it will be when trying to solve these issues (imagine these mailing
lists where it isn't only the same ~10 people responding).

> > The most important thing I want to be taken away from this is that
> > information on the freedom issues of a package should be *easily
> > available*. I shouldn't have to be asking absolutely everyone in the
> > community who has the actual links so I can verify for my own eyes.
> > What's more, the more eyes we have on the issue the more information we
> > can obtain and the faster we can solve things.
> 
> qt5-webengine was actually one of the better cases.  There have been
> packages blacklisted with *no* public discussion or documentation (for
> example, libglvnd).
> 
> In blacklist.txt, there is a field for a 'ref' referencing Debian,
> LibrePlanet, Savannah, Fedora, or Parabola (our bug tracker), for
> where you can read about justification for it being blacklisted.
> 
> Perhaps we should make this field mandatory?
> 

I have looked at this field many times for many packages and I often
don't see any links, but only accusations. This would be fine if we knew
that you could visit a page on the website where we all knew the
information was available, however that does not exist. If we want the
blacklist.txt to be the official place for putting this information
(which I don't recommend since it's not completely accessible to
absolutely everyone to edit in case of new evidence) it should contain
much more detailed information than what I have seen.

What's more, having this policy also creates an easy way for new
contributors to get their foot in the door, since this is something
somewhat easy to comprehend and only requires some research.

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From adfeno at openmailbox.org  Sat Apr 15 12:26:20 2017
From: adfeno at openmailbox.org (Adonay Felipe Nogueira)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 09:26:20 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <20170415092018.GA855@athena> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Nicol=C3=A1s?= A.
 Ortega"'s message of "Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:20:18 +0200")
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <87vaq6pi3q.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <20170415092018.GA855@athena>
Message-ID: <87mvbhj1qr.fsf@openmailbox.org>

There is a page in LibrePlanet that has list of packages with GNU FSDG
problems, although I don't know why the heading links are broken.

See
[[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines]].

It has Chromium browser. To go to it, *search* for
"chromium-browser". Remember: the links in the table of contents are
broken somehow, because they point to location above the th real target.

I still don't know how to fix these misplaced links.
-- 
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (n?o confundir com
  gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele n?o ? livre, por isso n?o uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
  GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard
  que est? no endere?o acima aos teus contatos.
- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
  aceito, mas n?o repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favor?veis ao
  /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de d?vida.


From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Sat Apr 15 12:56:06 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:56:06 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <87mvbhj1qr.fsf@openmailbox.org>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <87vaq6pi3q.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <20170415092018.GA855@athena> <87mvbhj1qr.fsf@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170415125606.GC855@athena>

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 09:26:20AM -0300, Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote:
> There is a page in LibrePlanet that has list of packages with GNU FSDG
> problems, although I don't know why the heading links are broken.
> 
> See
> [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines]].
> 
> It has Chromium browser. To go to it, *search* for
> "chromium-browser". Remember: the links in the table of contents are
> broken somehow, because they point to location above the th real target.

I didn't want to make this about that case specifically, so I will bring
it back on topic by saying that the issue is that the information is not
concentrated, it is not analyzed, and I am never given a verifiable list
of files that are non-free (which should be the ultimate evidence). In
this case I found it terribly difficult to find any evidence and the
evidence provided by the page you are suggesting was terribly outdated
(many bug reports had been fixed 2 years prior, some other reports were
pointing to files that had other issues, not necessarily freedom
issues). Basically, I would like to solve the absolute mess of
information issue that we've had, that is the goal.

However, this does make me think that perhaps this could be turned into
something larger than simply the Parabola community, but that's not
something I'm going to get into.

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From nobody at parabola.nu  Sun Apr 16 03:03:28 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 03:03:28 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [icecat] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170416030328.1103.19931@proton.parabola.nu>

jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* icecat 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat/
* icecat 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat/
* icecat-debug 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat-debug/
* icecat-debug 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat-debug/


The user provided the following additional text:

IceCat 52.0.2 has been released.
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnuzilla/2017-04/msg00008.html



From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 17 21:38:39 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 17:38:39 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <87r30u3brl.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
 <87r30u3brl.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <7d249f4a-6ead-c634-e20c-dcd755076aab@openmailbox.org>

On 04/14/2017 05:44 PM, fauno wrote:
> Josh Branning <lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com> writes:
>> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will 
>> be donated to, if it is to be donated.
> so a few issues to be solved:
>
> * is g4jc build server donation a donation to parabola or to
>   emulatorman?

The donation is intended for Emulatorman (since he is currently the one
maintaining kernels and has access to fiber). Assuming that Emulatorman
remains with Parabola (current consensus seems that way), it will
benefit Parabola which still is the intention.
>
> * if it's a donation to parabola, do we give it to emulatorman to host
>   or some other parabola hacker could host it instead?
>
> * do we want to pay the shipment price?  does it still amount to 400
>   USD?

Since it will be shipping within the US the shipping does not equal $400
USD. It should cost < $300.

In any case, it is my understanding that the money is temporarily
'frozen' until a new sponsor is found. So, I will pay for the shipping.
>
> * do we want to buy an ups to accompany this build server?

It would be nice, but I assume this is something that can be bought
locally. It may also be possible to buy a used one and replace the
battery at a reduced cost.
>
> * who will have remote access to this build server?

All core developers should have access to the build server, but I am not
sure that everyone needs sudo. It may be possible to simply "queue" jobs
for the server to do.

I know lukeshu has some good ideas on this, so I like forward to seeing
what he may have in mind. It may also be useful to have an audit log of
commands which are run on the server and by whom to avoid confusion and
increase transparency.

>
> * other questions people can have
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev


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From srw at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 17 22:59:16 2017
From: srw at openmailbox.org (Stig Roar)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 00:59:16 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <7d249f4a-6ead-c634-e20c-dcd755076aab@openmailbox.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
 <87r30u3brl.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <7d249f4a-6ead-c634-e20c-dcd755076aab@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170417225916.GA13062@localhost.localdomain>

Since lukeshu kindly reminded me in a private email that I am not a dev.
and therefore somewhat out of my element, I must kindly ask you guys to
remove my email address from this list (I've already unsubscribed),
since none of this is any of my business (as I was kindly made aware
of). 

Thank you in advanced.
S




On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 05:38:39PM -0400, Luke wrote:
> On 04/14/2017 05:44 PM, fauno wrote:
> > Josh Branning <lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com> writes:
> >> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will 
> >> be donated to, if it is to be donated.
> > so a few issues to be solved:
> >
> > * is g4jc build server donation a donation to parabola or to
> >   emulatorman?
> 
> The donation is intended for Emulatorman (since he is currently the one
> maintaining kernels and has access to fiber). Assuming that Emulatorman
> remains with Parabola (current consensus seems that way), it will
> benefit Parabola which still is the intention.
> >
> > * if it's a donation to parabola, do we give it to emulatorman to host
> >   or some other parabola hacker could host it instead?
> >
> > * do we want to pay the shipment price?  does it still amount to 400
> >   USD?
> 
> Since it will be shipping within the US the shipping does not equal $400
> USD. It should cost < $300.
> 
> In any case, it is my understanding that the money is temporarily
> 'frozen' until a new sponsor is found. So, I will pay for the shipping.
> >
> > * do we want to buy an ups to accompany this build server?
> 
> It would be nice, but I assume this is something that can be bought
> locally. It may also be possible to buy a used one and replace the
> battery at a reduced cost.
> >
> > * who will have remote access to this build server?
> 
> All core developers should have access to the build server, but I am not
> sure that everyone needs sudo. It may be possible to simply "queue" jobs
> for the server to do.
> 
> I know lukeshu has some good ideas on this, so I like forward to seeing
> what he may have in mind. It may also be useful to have an audit log of
> commands which are run on the server and by whom to avoid confusion and
> increase transparency.
> 
> >
> > * other questions people can have
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dev mailing list
> > Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
> 

> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

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From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 18 03:44:42 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 03:44:42 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [xfce-theme-greybird] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170418034442.1102.32447@proton.parabola.nu>

eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* xfce-theme-greybird 3.22.2-1 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/xfce-theme-greybird/


The user provided the following additional text:

Greybird theme has been updated to the 3.22.3.

Source: AUR:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/xfce-theme-greybird/



From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 18 14:09:42 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:09:42 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170418140942.1103.24819@proton.parabola.nu>

megver83 at parabola.nu wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* linux-libre 4.10.9_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre/
* linux-libre 4.10.9_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre/
* linux-libre-docs 4.10.9_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-docs/
* linux-libre-docs 4.10.9_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-docs/
* linux-libre-headers 4.10.9_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-headers/
* linux-libre-headers 4.10.9_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-headers/


The user provided the following additional text:

linux-libre newest version is 4.10.10
http://linux-libre.fsfla.org/pub/linux-libre/releases/LATEST-4.10.N/



From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Tue Apr 18 19:39:25 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:39:25 -0300
Subject: [Dev] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
Message-ID: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>

Hi, I noticed that some images changed
https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_Presentation_%28Espa%C3%B1ol%29
or disappeared
https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola

What happened?
-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From crazytoon at riseup.net  Tue Apr 18 21:37:18 2017
From: crazytoon at riseup.net (Crazytoon)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 21:37:18 +0000
Subject: [Dev] My farewell...
Message-ID: <4fb0be2a-3215-f226-8257-a526d2e112ae@riseup.net>

I am writing to you with the aim of informing you of my farewell to this
wonderful distro, in which since the beginning of the 2012 year, I have
accompanied all the activities as enthusiastic. From then on I acquired,
in spite of my late age, the basic concepts of the deep meaning of Free
Software, and its context in general.

However, when, within all distros, I met Parabola and his philosophy of
Freedom that was combined with adhocracy in its total essence, I felt
deeply captivated, since that would determine the birth of a new paradigm.

I know that this decision I am taking is not easy, it is difficult even
to write these words, because in Parabola I found, along with my sons,
my best friends. However, because I must be involved in new projects, it
is my duty and obligation to say goodbye with pain in my heart, but with
the feeling of duty fulfilled, to depart to new horizons.

I will temporarily move my free culture materials, so that I can
immediately make them available to the Free Software Foundation, to all
distros, to the entire community, and I will do so through other means soon.

I hereby declare my retirement in Parabola voluntarily, and I leave with
all my affection to all its members who are my best friends in my
essence in the cause that I have embraced from the heart, which is the
fight for the freedom of cyberspace.

With all affection and without more, I send an affectionate hug to all:

Crazytoon.

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Tue Apr 18 21:48:15 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 18:48:15 -0300
Subject: [Dev] My farewell...
In-Reply-To: <4fb0be2a-3215-f226-8257-a526d2e112ae@riseup.net>
References: <4fb0be2a-3215-f226-8257-a526d2e112ae@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <2ade38bf-bcbb-26ae-1f5c-657252bf97b7@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

oh, that's why the artwork disappeared? that's a pity, we will always
remember you Crazytoon, you're great.

El 18/04/17 a las 18:37, Crazytoon escribi?:
> I am writing to you with the aim of informing you of my farewell to
> this wonderful distro, in which since the beginning of the 2012
> year, I have accompanied all the activities as enthusiastic. From
> then on I acquired, in spite of my late age, the basic concepts of
> the deep meaning of Free Software, and its context in general.
> 
> However, when, within all distros, I met Parabola and his
> philosophy of Freedom that was combined with adhocracy in its total
> essence, I felt deeply captivated, since that would determine the
> birth of a new paradigm.
> 
> I know that this decision I am taking is not easy, it is difficult
> even to write these words, because in Parabola I found, along with
> my sons, my best friends. However, because I must be involved in
> new projects, it is my duty and obligation to say goodbye with pain
> in my heart, but with the feeling of duty fulfilled, to depart to
> new horizons.
> 
> I will temporarily move my free culture materials, so that I can 
> immediately make them available to the Free Software Foundation, to
> all distros, to the entire community, and I will do so through
> other means soon.
> 
> I hereby declare my retirement in Parabola voluntarily, and I leave
> with all my affection to all its members who are my best friends in
> my essence in the cause that I have embraced from the heart, which
> is the fight for the freedom of cyberspace.
> 
> With all affection and without more, I send an affectionate hug to
> all:
> 
> Crazytoon.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Tue Apr 18 21:59:06 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 21:59:06 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Goodbye Parabola
Message-ID: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>

Hi guys, after a few days thinking about it and for personal reasons,
i've decided to say Goodbye.

It's a very hard decision for me, but i'm feeling that my cicle ended
here to begin a new one.

Around 2010/2011, i've known this distro thank to Quiliro who suggested
me choose a free distro endorsed by the FSF. In Parabola, i found a cool
community that was adhocratic and democratic in its essence, i've
learned a lot of things such as edit articles in the wiki, packaging,
create isos, make conferences/interviews, etc.

I met fauno and alfplayer in person and a lot of users and devs around
the world from the cyberspace thank to Parabola. In short, i'm very
grateful for these greatest moments in my live that Parabola gave me. I
never forget it, even if we could have differences of opinion, culture,
religion, etc. I'm very grateful to the users that always believe in me,
even to continue in Parabola as maintainer.

I've decided dedicate my life to my family and friends for now. If
someone would get in touch with me, just send a personal email or
looking for me at another freenode channels related to the Free Software
Movement, since i'm unsubscribing here.

Regards and thanks for all,
Andr?.

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From tct at ceata.org  Tue Apr 18 23:12:22 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 02:12:22 +0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org>

On 19.04.2017 00:48, Megver83 wrote:
> El 18/04/17 a las 18:37, Crazytoon escribi?:
>> I will temporarily move my free culture materials

Do you mean *permanently remove*?

E.g.
https://wiki.parabola.nu/File:Gnu10-mascot-logo_100ppi.png

Who gives you the right to remove free cultural works hosted by a project?

> oh, that's why the artwork disappeared?

Please pay attention! I believe coadde is vandalizing the wiki:

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Get_Parabola&type=revision&diff=18819&oldid=18642

Coadde has deleted both the artwork and the mention of it being free
culture.

Is this the same kind of irony like the 1984 book being removed by
Amazon via a backdoor in the Kindle-Swindle?

https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/proprietary-back-doors.html

Crazytoon, this is not honorable. You might think that you have the
right to take your toys with you when you leave. But these are not only
your toys anymore. You have released this artwork under a free culture
license (CC-BY-SA?) and you have no right to ask for their removal.

Unbelievable! What's next? Emulatorman deletes Parabola images from
download?

Tiberiu


From coadde at riseup.net  Tue Apr 18 23:17:50 2017
From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 23:17:50 +0000
Subject: [Dev] I say goodbye to Parabola.
Message-ID: <f471bfc6-4ef1-4556-42bb-d6aba72ac2b8@riseup.net>

At this moment for which I am going through, as well as many in
Parabola, I by my own will left my functions in this distro, so that I
can start a new phase in my life, since I will be focusing my life and
orienting it towards other goals.

It is extremely difficult for me to have reached this resolution, and
much more difficult to communicate you, but in full consciousness I move
away with the deep feeling of duty fulfilled.

From the early years, during which I performed my duties as packager and
artist, I have met many hackers with whom I have formed bonds of
friendship and companionship, and all this means a lot for my life.

In its primordios, Parabola captivated me too much for its condition of
being a distro deep ly adhocratic in its minimum details, nowadays I
feel nostalgia of those moments taking with me these experiences and
memories so beautiful.

Without more, with all affection I send a hug to all:

Coadde.

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From tct at ceata.org  Tue Apr 18 23:31:56 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 02:31:56 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Q1: Do you have a consensus on the budget for the Build
 Server?
In-Reply-To: <7d249f4a-6ead-c634-e20c-dcd755076aab@openmailbox.org>
References: <58F11468.5000201@ceata.org> <58F11857.1000902@gmail.com>
 <58F11BD8.8010305@ceata.org>
 <1c0cc9c8-a266-2cb9-227d-71b3840200ec@openmailbox.org>
 <58F125A9.5060904@ceata.org> <58F129E0.6080209@gmail.com>
 <87r30u3brl.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <7d249f4a-6ead-c634-e20c-dcd755076aab@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58F6A1EC.5040102@ceata.org>

On 18.04.2017 00:38, Luke wrote:
> On 04/14/2017 05:44 PM, fauno wrote:
>> Josh Branning <lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com> writes:
>>> Really, it's up to GC4J to choose to what entity the build server will 
>>> be donated to, if it is to be donated.
>> so a few issues to be solved:
>>
>> * is g4jc build server donation a donation to parabola or to
>>   emulatorman?
> 
> The donation is intended for Emulatorman (since he is currently the one
> maintaining kernels and has access to fiber). Assuming that Emulatorman
> remains with Parabola (current consensus seems that way), it will
> benefit Parabola which still is the intention.

This means that donation is for Emulatorman, not for Parabola. Should
Emulatorman decide to not use that personal donation for Parabola, which
he just did by announcing he quits the project, it means that the server
will not be used for Parabola at all.

>> * if it's a donation to parabola, do we give it to emulatorman to host
>>   or some other parabola hacker could host it instead?
>>
>> * do we want to pay the shipment price?  does it still amount to 400
>>   USD?
> 
> Since it will be shipping within the US the shipping does not equal $400
> USD. It should cost < $300.

Do you honestly believe that Parabola would reach a consensus to pay
this expensive shipping cost for a server that it's not a donation to
the project, but a personal donation to one of its hackers?

> In any case, it is my understanding that the money is temporarily
> 'frozen' until a new sponsor is found. So, I will pay for the shipping.

Please stop spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD). You've been
doing this for over a month now.

According to the fiscal sponsorship agreement (approved by consensus),
which is publicly available and has been linked here many times, the
Parabola fund is frozen only if/after 2 months have passed without a
Fiscal Sponsor Successor. And once the next sponsor is approved by both
parties (Parabola and Ceata), the funds are transferred to that sponsor.

That means that until June 5th the Parabola funds can be used, of course.

Tiberiu


From tct at ceata.org  Tue Apr 18 23:47:36 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 02:47:36 +0300
Subject: [Dev] I say goodbye to Parabola.
In-Reply-To: <f471bfc6-4ef1-4556-42bb-d6aba72ac2b8@riseup.net>
References: <f471bfc6-4ef1-4556-42bb-d6aba72ac2b8@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58F6A598.6070808@ceata.org>

On 19.04.2017 02:17, coadde wrote:
> in full consciousness I move away with the deep feeling of duty fulfilled.

This is outrageous! Is it your consciousness that told you it's your
duty to vandalize the Parabola wiki before you "move away"?

E.g.

https://wiki.parabola.nu/File:Gnu01-mascot-logo%2Bparabola-logo_100ppi.png

https://wiki.parabola.nu/File:TalkingParabola_logo.png

https://wiki.parabola.nu/File:Gnu10-mascot-logo_100ppi.png

https://wiki.parabola.nu/File:Gnu03-mascot-logo_100ppi.png

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=P%C3%A1gina_Principal&diff=prev&oldid=18908

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Parabola_Presentation_(Portugu%C3%AAs)&diff=prev&oldid=18811

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Parabola_Social_Contract_(Portugu%C3%AAs)&diff=prev&oldid=18906

108 edits this evening from 19:23-20:57, removing artwork and artwork
description:

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Coadde&offset=&limit=108&target=Coadde

19:23, 18 April 2017
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Get_Parabola&diff=prev&oldid=18801

to

20:57, 18 April 2017
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=P%C3%A1gina_Principal&diff=prev&oldid=18908

Tiberiu


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Wed Apr 19 02:19:27 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:19:27 -0400
Subject: [Dev] I say goodbye to Parabola.
In-Reply-To: <58F6A598.6070808@ceata.org>
References: <f471bfc6-4ef1-4556-42bb-d6aba72ac2b8@riseup.net>
 <58F6A598.6070808@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <87pog95ec0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 19:47:36 -0400,
Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> 
> On 19.04.2017 02:17, coadde wrote:
> > in full consciousness I move away with the deep feeling of duty fulfilled.
> 
> This is outrageous! Is it your consciousness that told you it's your
> duty to vandalize the Parabola wiki before you "move away"?

For shame!

Similarly, the recent 'sudo' logs on one of the servers are a series
of `rm -r`s from him.

I've now revoked the credentials of the 3 resigned developers from the
servers and wiki.  Their labs.parabola.nu accounts were already
deleted (by themselves? by someone else?).

They can still contribute to the wiki, but their accounts now only
have verified-non-spam/emailconfirmed status.  They do not have
'delete' or any other special permissions.

Their @parabola.nu email forwards will continue to work indefinitely.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Wed Apr 19 02:39:51 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:39:51 -0400
Subject: [Dev] I say goodbye to Parabola.
In-Reply-To: <87pog95ec0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <f471bfc6-4ef1-4556-42bb-d6aba72ac2b8@riseup.net>
 <58F6A598.6070808@ceata.org> <87pog95ec0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <87o9vt5de0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:19:27 -0400,
Luke Shumaker wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 19:47:36 -0400,
> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> > 
> > On 19.04.2017 02:17, coadde wrote:
> > > in full consciousness I move away with the deep feeling of duty fulfilled.
> > 
> > This is outrageous! Is it your consciousness that told you it's your
> > duty to vandalize the Parabola wiki before you "move away"?
> 
> For shame!
> 
> Similarly, the recent 'sudo' logs on one of the servers are a series
> of `rm -r`s from him.

To be precise:

    /usr/bin/rm -r /srv/repo/main/other/multimedia/pmc
    /usr/bin/rm -r /srv/repo/main/other/multimedia/pom
    /usr/bin/rm -rf /srv/git/video-game
    /usr/bin/rm -r /srv/repo/main/other/multimedia/parabola-logotype-2016.tar.xz /srv/repo/main/other/multimedia/parabola-logotype-2016.tar.xz.sig
    /usr/bin/rm -r /srv/repo/main/other/multimedia/others/Makefile-deprecated
    /usr/bin/rm -r /srv/repo/main/other/multimedia/others/bola.png
    /usr/bin/mv /srv/repo/main/other/multimedia/others/parabola-cd-cover.svg /srv/repo/main/other/multimedia/
    /usr/bin/rm -r /srv/repo/main/other/multimedia/others
    /usr/bin/rm -r /srv/repo/main/other/video-game
    /usr/bin/rm -r /srv/repo/main/~coadde
    /usr/bin/rm -r /srv/repo/main/~emulatorman

The /srv/git/video-game repositories are in the gitlab.com/parabola
backup.

The files in /srv/repo/main are still on the alfplayer.com mirror (and
probably other mirrors), so I'm `wget -m`ing those now.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From tct at ceata.org  Wed Apr 19 05:33:25 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 08:33:25 +0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] Goodbye Parabola
In-Reply-To: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org>

On 19.04.2017 00:59, Andr? Silva wrote:
> Hi guys, after a few days thinking about it and for personal reasons,
> i've decided to say Goodbye.
[...]
> I've decided dedicate my life to my family and friends for now. If
> someone would get in touch with me, just send a personal email or
> looking for me at another freenode channels related to the Free Software
> Movement, since i'm unsubscribing here.

Not so fast! You have Parabola hardware in your possession. Have you
made arrangements to get it shipped to the nearest Parabola developer?

https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Non-Monetary_Donations

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18507&oldid=18504
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=15156&oldid=15155
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003914.html

plus the Hardware Expenses section in the GNUcash file.

This list of Parabola hardware in your possession might not be exhaustive:

* 2x BeagleBone Black rev.C
* 1x C.H.I.P.
* 5x Jumper DuPont wire
* 1x FT232R USB UART device
* 1x USB-miniUSB cable
* 1x Kingston 8 GB microSDHC card class 4
* 1x Kingston 16 GB microSDHC card class 4
* 1x Dell Latitude 2110
* 1x Netgear WNA1100
* 1x AC power adapter 2P 10A
* 1x generic AC/DC adapter model YDH500300A
* 1x 220V-110V converter

Please respond promptly to avoid repercussions.

Tiberiu


From tct at ceata.org  Wed Apr 19 05:29:50 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 08:29:50 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Goodbye Parabola
In-Reply-To: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58F6F5CD.6030602@ceata.org>

On 19.04.2017 00:59, Andr? Silva wrote:
> Hi guys, after a few days thinking about it and for personal reasons,
> i've decided to say Goodbye.
[...]
> I've decided dedicate my life to my family and friends for now. If
> someone would get in touch with me, just send a personal email or
> looking for me at another freenode channels related to the Free Software
> Movement, since i'm unsubscribing here.

Not so fast! You have Parabola hardware in your possession. Have you
made arrangements to get them shipped to the nearest Parabola developer?

https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Non-Monetary_Donations

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18507&oldid=18504
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=15156&oldid=15155
https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003914.html

plus Hardware Expenses in the GNUcash file.

This Parabola hardware list in your possession might not be exhaustive:

* 2x BeagleBone Black rev.C
* 1x C.H.I.P.
* 5x Jumper DuPont wire
* 1x FT232R USB UART device
* 1x USB-miniUSB cable
* 1x Kingston 8 GB microSDHC card class 4
* 1x Kingston 16 GB microSDHC card class 4
* 1x Dell Latitude 2110
* 1x Netgear WNA1100
* 1x AC power adapter 2P 10A
* 1x generic AC/DC adapter model YDH500300A
* 1x 220V-110V converter

Please respond promptly to avoid repercussions.

Tiberiu


From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Wed Apr 19 15:11:08 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 17:11:08 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <20170415001545.GC821@athena>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <87a87i36t1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <20170415001545.GC821@athena>
Message-ID: <20170419150825.GA858@athena>

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 02:15:45AM +0200, Nicol?s A. Ortega wrote:
> 
> Alright, I made an etherpad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/QuarantinePolicyDraft
> 
> Y'all are greatly encouraged to edit it and improve the draft. Hope this
> helps. (^_^)
> 

Update on the pad:

So far (aside from some spelling and grammatical mistakes I had) someone
also commented that apart from links to sources as to why something
should be removed (or rather, stay removed since this is a quarantine)
one should be able to post information about the code directly that is
in question. I kind of thought this was a given, but this should be okay
as well.

However, aside from this one comment, I am unsure if people generally
agree or if people simply have not been going over it. I would like
community input since I think this would help to make freedom issues
more efficient.

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From adfeno at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr 19 15:17:40 2017
From: adfeno at openmailbox.org (Adonay Felipe Nogueira)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 12:17:40 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Nicol=C3=A1s?= A.
 Ortega"'s message of "Sat, 15 Apr 2017 00:28:50 +0200")
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena>
Message-ID: <8760i08m0b.fsf@openmailbox.org>

So far, I'm against "releasing" packages from the quarantine if they are
kept there until "some time", because this "release" would probably
favor "problematic" software rather than favor "innocent" software.

However, I'm in favor of making the reference fields for the quarantine
mandatory, and furthermore: I suggest to have evaluators investigate the
references to see if these are indeed valid and updated before adding a
package to the quarantine in the first place.


Respectfully, Adonay.
-- 
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (n?o confundir com
  gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele n?o ? livre, por isso n?o uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
  GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard
  que est? no endere?o acima aos teus contatos.
- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
  aceito, mas n?o repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favor?veis ao
  /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de d?vida.


From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Wed Apr 19 15:28:35 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 17:28:35 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <8760i08m0b.fsf@openmailbox.org>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena>
 <8760i08m0b.fsf@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170419152835.GB858@athena>

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:17:40PM -0300, Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote:
> So far, I'm against "releasing" packages from the quarantine if they are
> kept there until "some time", because this "release" would probably
> favor "problematic" software rather than favor "innocent" software.
> 

The issue then becomes that software is accused, and even if it is
completely innocent it will never get out of quarantine despite being
completely clean. There has to be a method by which if no proper
evidence is found that truly makes the software non-free it should be
able to come back into the repos.

> However, I'm in favor of making the reference fields for the quarantine
> mandatory, and furthermore: I suggest to have evaluators investigate the
> references to see if these are indeed valid and updated before adding a
> package to the quarantine in the first place.
> 

Alright, something we can work on :)

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Wed Apr 19 15:31:07 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:31:07 -0400
Subject: [Dev] 1984 account information
Message-ID: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Hi,

I was reviewing the 1984 account that is used to manage
winston.parabola.nu.

The login email is parabola at openmailbox.org.  Who has the credentials
for that mailbox?

The address listed is a Romanian address, but not the one listed on
Ceata's site.  Any idea what the address is?  (I'm not posting it here
in case it's someone's home address)

The phone number listed is Ceata's phone number.  With Ceata's
sponsorship coming to an end, what should we change it to?

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From tct at ceata.org  Wed Apr 19 15:55:51 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 18:55:51 +0300
Subject: [Dev] 1984 account information
In-Reply-To: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>

On 19.04.2017 18:31, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> I was reviewing the 1984 account that is used to manage
> winston.parabola.nu.
> 
> The login email is parabola at openmailbox.org.  Who has the credentials
> for that mailbox?

I have never received e-mails from this mailbox and it's the first time
I learn about its existence.

> The address listed is a Romanian address, but not the one listed on
> Ceata's site.  

You mean a mailing address in Romania? Does openmailbox.org require a
mailing address to register for an account with them?

> Any idea what the address is?  (I'm not posting it here
> in case it's someone's home address)

Please feel free to send me privately that e-mail address so I can check.

> The phone number listed is Ceata's phone number.  With Ceata's
> sponsorship coming to an end, what should we change it to?

Ceata is considering extending the agreement with Parabola for another
year if all the devs that have created problems leave the project.

Tiberiu


From tct at ceata.org  Wed Apr 19 15:56:39 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 18:56:39 +0300
Subject: [Dev] 1984 account information
In-Reply-To: <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
References: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58F788B7.7060803@ceata.org>

On 19.04.2017 18:55, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> Please feel free to send me privately that e-mail address so I can check.

s/that e-mail address/that mailing address/

Tiberiu


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Wed Apr 19 17:00:31 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 13:00:31 -0400
Subject: [Dev] 1984 account information
In-Reply-To: <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
References: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
	<58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <87k26g5o40.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:55:51 -0400,
Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> 
> On 19.04.2017 18:31, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> > I was reviewing the 1984 account that is used to manage
> > winston.parabola.nu.
> > 
> > The login email is parabola at openmailbox.org.  Who has the credentials
> > for that mailbox?
> 
> I have never received e-mails from this mailbox and it's the first time
> I learn about its existence.
> 
> > The address listed is a Romanian address, but not the one listed on
> > Ceata's site.  
> 
> You mean a mailing address in Romania? Does openmailbox.org require a
> mailing address to register for an account with them?

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear.  There is an email-address, postal-address,
and phone-number associated with the 1984 account.  I know nothing
about the openmailbox.org account other than that it is associated
with the 1984 account.

The postal-address associated with the 1984 account is in Romania.

> Please feel free to send me privately that e-mail address so I can check.

Will do.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net  Wed Apr 19 17:34:00 2017
From: jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net (jc_gargma)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 10:34:00 -0700
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <20170419150825.GA858@athena>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <20170415001545.GC821@athena>
 <20170419150825.GA858@athena>
Message-ID: <6725870.I4uTWzcjon@iserlohn-fortress.net>

> So far (aside from some spelling and grammatical mistakes I had) someone
> also commented that apart from links to sources as to why something
> should be removed (or rather, stay removed since this is a quarantine)
> one should be able to post information about the code directly that is
> in question. I kind of thought this was a given, but this should be okay
> as well.
> 
> However, aside from this one comment, I am unsure if people generally
> agree or if people simply have not been going over it. I would like
> community input since I think this would help to make freedom issues
> more efficient.

I'm unable to view the pad as it produces multiple javascript errors.


In response to your main query:
I would consider explicit code snippets or statements akin to "lines X through 
Y on file Z of commit W" to avoid posting non-free code, as a given to justify 
whether software is non-free.


-jc
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From alejandrohp at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr 19 17:50:46 2017
From: alejandrohp at openmailbox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Alejandro_Hern=c3=a1ndez_Petermann?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 19:50:46 +0200
Subject: [Dev] 1984 account information
In-Reply-To: <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
References: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <843f6063-ea0b-b2c9-2e3e-64e83d45d357@openmailbox.org>

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr 19 17:57:09 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 14:57:09 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <6efc2626-e675-b975-311d-68e46ef4d29b@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

El 18/04/17 a las 20:12, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic escribi?:
> Please pay attention! I believe coadde is vandalizing the wiki:
> 
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Get_Parabola&type=revision&di
ff=18819&oldid=18642
>
>  Coadde has deleted both the artwork and the mention of it being
> free culture.

Yes, I know, I received the emails from ParabolaWiki about Coadde
deleting images and *links to free culture*

> Is this the same kind of irony like the 1984 book being removed by 
> Amazon via a backdoor in the Kindle-Swindle?
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/proprietary-back-doors.html
> 
> Crazytoon, this is not honorable. You might think that you have
> the right to take your toys with you when you leave. But these are
> not only your toys anymore. You have released this artwork under a
> free culture license (CC-BY-SA?) and you have no right to ask for
> their removal.
> 
> Unbelievable! What's next? Emulatorman deletes Parabola images
> from download?

I hope not :S

> Tiberiu
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Wed Apr 19 17:57:01 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 19:57:01 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <6725870.I4uTWzcjon@iserlohn-fortress.net>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <20170415001545.GC821@athena>
 <20170419150825.GA858@athena>
 <6725870.I4uTWzcjon@iserlohn-fortress.net>
Message-ID: <20170419175701.GD858@athena>

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 10:34:00AM -0700, jc_gargma wrote:
> > So far (aside from some spelling and grammatical mistakes I had) someone
> > also commented that apart from links to sources as to why something
> > should be removed (or rather, stay removed since this is a quarantine)
> > one should be able to post information about the code directly that is
> > in question. I kind of thought this was a given, but this should be okay
> > as well.
> > 
> > However, aside from this one comment, I am unsure if people generally
> > agree or if people simply have not been going over it. I would like
> > community input since I think this would help to make freedom issues
> > more efficient.
> 
> I'm unable to view the pad as it produces multiple javascript errors.
> 
> 
> In response to your main query:
> I would consider explicit code snippets or statements akin to "lines X through 
> Y on file Z of commit W" to avoid posting non-free code, as a given to justify 
> whether software is non-free.
> 
> 
> -jc

Yes, that is what someone mentioned on the pad as well (although you put
it much more clearly, so I'll add it if you haven't already).

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Wed Apr 19 18:03:40 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:03:40 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <20170419152835.GB858@athena>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <8760i08m0b.fsf@openmailbox.org>
 <20170419152835.GB858@athena>
Message-ID: <20170419180340.GE858@athena>

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 05:28:35PM +0200, Nicol?s A. Ortega wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:17:40PM -0300, Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote:
> > So far, I'm against "releasing" packages from the quarantine if they are
> > kept there until "some time", because this "release" would probably
> > favor "problematic" software rather than favor "innocent" software.
> > 
> 
> The issue then becomes that software is accused, and even if it is
> completely innocent it will never get out of quarantine despite being
> completely clean. There has to be a method by which if no proper
> evidence is found that truly makes the software non-free it should be
> able to come back into the repos.
> 

Dezponia also mentioned on IRC that issues can be reopened. However I
would argue that issues should be reopened only if new evidence has come
to light, at which point the package can go back into quarantine, and
the time in quarantine should be longer.

I've added a post-quarantine section to the pad:
https://pad.riseup.net/p/QuarantinePolicyDraft

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Wed Apr 19 22:05:31 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 18:05:31 -0400
Subject: [Dev] 1984 account information
In-Reply-To: <843f6063-ea0b-b2c9-2e3e-64e83d45d357@openmailbox.org>
References: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
 <843f6063-ea0b-b2c9-2e3e-64e83d45d357@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87efwo59zo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 13:50:46 -0400,
Alejandro Hern?ndez Petermann wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
> Charset: windows-1252
> 
...
> -----END PGP MESSAGE-----

It looks to me like you encrypted the message such that only you can
read it?  Did you mean to just sign it?  Or encrypt it for someone
else?

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From alejandrohp at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 00:06:02 2017
From: alejandrohp at openmailbox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Alejandro_Hern=c3=a1ndez_Petermann?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 02:06:02 +0200
Subject: [Dev] 1984 account information
In-Reply-To: <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
References: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <56811798-1c93-371f-9f51-f340d4fbcf33@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256



On 19/04/17 17:55, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> Ceata is considering extending the agreement with Parabola for
> another year if all the devs that have created problems leave the
> project.
> 
> Tiberiu



^ WHAAAAAAAAAAAATTTT? ??
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Thu Apr 20 01:13:04 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 21:13:04 -0400
Subject: [Dev] 1984 account information
In-Reply-To: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <87a87b6fvj.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:31:07 -0400,
Luke Shumaker wrote:
> The login email is parabola at openmailbox.org.  Who has the credentials
> for that mailbox?

g4jc has sent me the password for that mailbox.

> The address listed is a Romanian address, but not the one listed on
> Ceata's site.  Any idea what the address is?  (I'm not posting it here
> in case it's someone's home address)

tct has verified that the mailing address that 1984 has on file is
Ceata's address; I was looking at the address for something else on
their site.  Though, he was confuses that 1984 needed a mailing
address.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Thu Apr 20 01:50:29 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 21:50:29 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Source tarballs
In-Reply-To: <87pogiqvp2.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87pogiqvp2.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <878tmv6e56.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:08:25 -0400,
Luke Shumaker wrote:
> I'm working on having libremakepkg produce sourceballs.  I was
> wondering if anyone had strong opinions about regular-sourceballs
> (`--source`) vs all-sourceballs (`--allsource`).  Perhaps having both
> with different extensions (what extension would be used other than
> `.src.tar.xz`?).
> 
> Also, if anyone has opinions about sourceballs appearing anywhere
> other than $SRCPOOL (https://repo.parabola.nu/sources/parabola).  I'm
> somewhat attracted to the idea of them appearing along side the
> package files (`.pkg.tar.xz`) in the repo directories.

I forgot about `.abs.tar.gz` files.

.abs.tar.gz files (which in Arch are produced by
`abs.git:scripts/update-abs.sh`) will live alongside the `.db.tar.gz`
files, and contain the regular source; while the `.src.tar.xz` files
will contain the allsource.

I may end up having .src.tar.xz files appear alongside the .pkg.tar.xz
files.  We'll see.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From quiliro at riseup.net  Thu Apr 20 05:23:43 2017
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quiliro)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 00:23:43 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Proposals for Fiscal Sponsor Successor
In-Reply-To: <58F10660.3060601@ceata.org>
References: <58F10660.3060601@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <20170420002343.4c2fb3ee@riseup.net>

I suggest the next fiscal sponsor is an organization that has someone
with good human relationship skills in their team. That is basic for
avoiding conflicts.

I don't think all of us have these types of skills. But where money is
handled, I think it is a must because all of us are in need and it is a
tacky issue in our subconcious. The money issue is always difficult,
specially when it is not maturely dealt with. The best thing is to avoid
it all together, in my opinion. But, if there must be a fiscal sponsor,
it must be someone or an organization with someone that has great
diplomacy besides the obvious honesty. 

-- 
Saluton,
Quiliro
0987631031




From quiliro at riseup.net  Thu Apr 20 05:40:46 2017
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quiliro)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 00:40:46 -0500
Subject: [Dev] 1984 account information
In-Reply-To: <58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
References: <87lgqw5s90.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
	<58F78887.4000601@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <20170420004046.3adba2ff@riseup.net>


> Ceata is considering extending the agreement with Parabola for another
> year if all the devs that have created problems leave the project.

However advantageous the conditions are with Ceata, I would suggest,
for the good of Ceata and of Parabola, not to continue with the
agreement. The best would be to end it in good terms. The problems
could come up again and again because bad feelings never will heal
unless there is good will. And that is very difficult considering the
past actions.

More maturity is needed and less ping pong hitting each
other between players. Until such maturity is reached, it will happen
again and again. And I am not writting about one side only. A fight is
not with only one fighter.

-- 
Saluton,
Quiliro
0987631031




From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr 20 06:55:00 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:55:00 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Proposals for Fiscal Sponsor Successor
In-Reply-To: <20170420002343.4c2fb3ee@riseup.net>
References: <58F10660.3060601@ceata.org> <20170420002343.4c2fb3ee@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58F85B44.3020603@ceata.org>

On 20.04.2017 08:40, Quiliro wrote:
>> Ceata is considering extending the agreement with Parabola for
>> another year if all the devs that have created problems leave the
>> project.
>
> However advantageous the conditions are with Ceata, I would suggest,
> for the good of Ceata and of Parabola, not to continue with the
> agreement. The best would be to end it in good terms. The problems
> could come up again and again because bad feelings never will heal
> unless there is good will. And that is very difficult considering the
> past actions.

Is it possible that by "past actions" you refer to some your own people

1) undemocratically and privately asking for a tone of money from the
Parabola fund for hardware they want to use and keep for themselves even
after they leave the project,

2) dismissing the delegate's concerns about these big expenses unknown
to the community, by labeling them as "unnecessary drama",

3) sabotaging the relationship with the fiscal sponsor, by unjustly and
publicly accusing the fiscal sponsor of misusing the Parabola funds,

4) building a faction inside the project, recruiting fellow devs that
don't know both sides of the story,

5) vandalizing the wiki and repos, deleting free cultural works and free
software from the project, before they leave.

> More maturity is needed and less ping pong hitting each
> other between players. Until such maturity is reached, it will happen
> again and again. And I am not writting about one side only. A fight is
> not with only one fighter.

I guarantee you that if G4JC doesn't follow his comrade Emulatorman and
leaves the project, the same issues will happen with the next fiscal
sponsorship. And an agreement extension with Ceata is out of the table
if G4JC stays.

Until your own people won't start respecting agreements with 3rd parties
that have been approved by the community with consensus, Parabola will
continue to have problems raising and spending funds.

You're talking about maturity? Maturity means following protocol and
respecting agreements. I don't have the time to teach you that, although
I patiently tried. Nobody has time to teach you that!

On 20.04.2017 08:23, Quiliro wrote:
> I suggest the next fiscal sponsor is an organization that has someone
> with good human relationship skills in their team. That is basic for
> avoiding conflicts.

Please, show some maturity and start drafting the proposal to be sent to
FSIJ. Or to other sponsor candidate, for that matter.

> I don't think all of us have these types of skills. But where money is
> handled, I think it is a must because all of us are in need and it is a
> tacky issue in our subconcious. The money issue is always difficult,
> specially when it is not maturely dealt with. The best thing is to avoid
> it all together, in my opinion. But, if there must be a fiscal sponsor,
> it must be someone or an organization with someone that has great
> diplomacy besides the obvious honesty. 

Start doing actual work if you want things to run better in your project
and in the relantionship with 3rd parties. That's the mature thing to do.

Tiberiu

P.S. I prefer being straight with people I care about. Diplomacy is just
another word for manipulation.


From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr 20 07:04:04 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:04:04 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Proposals for Fiscal Sponsor Successor
In-Reply-To: <58F85B44.3020603@ceata.org>
References: <58F10660.3060601@ceata.org> <20170420002343.4c2fb3ee@riseup.net>
 <58F85B44.3020603@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58F85D64.4040304@ceata.org>

On 20.04.2017 09:55, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> On 20.04.2017 08:40, Quiliro wrote:
>>> Ceata is considering extending the agreement with Parabola for
>>> another year if all the devs that have created problems leave the
>>> project.
>>
>> However advantageous the conditions are with Ceata, I would suggest,
>> for the good of Ceata and of Parabola, not to continue with the
>> agreement. The best would be to end it in good terms. The problems
>> could come up again and again because bad feelings never will heal
>> unless there is good will. And that is very difficult considering the
>> past actions.
> 
> Is it possible that by "past actions" you refer to some your own people
> 
> 1) undemocratically and privately asking for a tone of money from the
> Parabola fund for hardware they want to use and keep for themselves even
> after they leave the project,
> 
> 2) dismissing the delegate's concerns about these big expenses unknown
> to the community, by labeling them as "unnecessary drama",
> 
> 3) sabotaging the relationship with the fiscal sponsor, by unjustly and
> publicly accusing the fiscal sponsor of misusing the Parabola funds,

I forgot to mention, with the objective of having the Parabola funds
transferred to an offshore that they personally control! Are you kidding
me? Do they have any limit?

> 4) building a faction inside the project, recruiting fellow devs that
> don't know both sides of the story,
> 
> 5) vandalizing the wiki and repos, deleting free cultural works and free
> software from the project, before they leave.
> 
>> More maturity is needed and less ping pong hitting each
>> other between players. Until such maturity is reached, it will happen
>> again and again. And I am not writting about one side only. A fight is
>> not with only one fighter.
> 
> I guarantee you that if G4JC doesn't follow his comrade Emulatorman and
> leaves the project, the same issues will happen with the next fiscal
> sponsorship. And an agreement extension with Ceata is out of the table
> if G4JC stays.
> 
> Until your own people won't start respecting agreements with 3rd parties
> that have been approved by the community with consensus, Parabola will
> continue to have problems raising and spending funds.
> 
> You're talking about maturity? Maturity means following protocol and
> respecting agreements. I don't have the time to teach you that, although
> I patiently tried. Nobody has time to teach you that!
> 
> On 20.04.2017 08:23, Quiliro wrote:
>> I suggest the next fiscal sponsor is an organization that has someone
>> with good human relationship skills in their team. That is basic for
>> avoiding conflicts.
> 
> Please, show some maturity and start drafting the proposal to be sent to
> FSIJ. Or to other sponsor candidate, for that matter.
> 
>> I don't think all of us have these types of skills. But where money is
>> handled, I think it is a must because all of us are in need and it is a
>> tacky issue in our subconcious. The money issue is always difficult,
>> specially when it is not maturely dealt with. The best thing is to avoid
>> it all together, in my opinion. But, if there must be a fiscal sponsor,
>> it must be someone or an organization with someone that has great
>> diplomacy besides the obvious honesty. 
> 
> Start doing actual work if you want things to run better in your project
> and in the relantionship with 3rd parties. That's the mature thing to do.
> 
> Tiberiu
> 
> P.S. I prefer being straight with people I care about. Diplomacy is just
> another word for manipulation.


From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr 20 10:37:53 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:53 +0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>

Hello,

You can revert the changes coadde has made to the wiki pages in his
vandalization efforts before leaving the project and reupload the
deleted images from the Web Archive, such as this one:

https://web.archive.org/web/20161208020551/https://wiki.parabola.nu/images/3/33/Logotipo_color.png

I hope this helps restore the wiki.

Tiberiu


From quiliro at riseup.net  Thu Apr 20 13:39:35 2017
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quiliro)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 08:39:35 -0500
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>

El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:53 +0300
Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:

> Hello,
> 
> You can revert the changes coadde has made to the wiki pages in his
> vandalization efforts before leaving the project and reupload the
> deleted images from the Web Archive, such as this one:
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20161208020551/https://wiki.parabola.nu/images/3/33/Logotipo_color.png
> 
> I hope this helps restore the wiki.

I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not dwell on that.
There are much more important things to invest our time in. Or you
think that a logo is that important?

-- 
Example of rude top posting:

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

A: No.
Q: Should I leave quotations after my reply?

Saluton,
Quiliro
0987631031




From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 13:53:22 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:53:22 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi, yesterday I talk with Emulatorman and Coadde and asked them about
the deletion of the artwork, according to them, the artwork will be
re-uploaded in "a neutral place"

That's what they told me, so later we can restore the images, but as
Tiberiu suggested, there's the web archive.

El 20/04/17 a las 10:39, Quiliro escribi?:
> El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:53 +0300 Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic
> <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> You can revert the changes coadde has made to the wiki pages in
>> his vandalization efforts before leaving the project and reupload
>> the deleted images from the Web Archive, such as this one:
>> 
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20161208020551/https://wiki.parabola.nu/i
mages/3/33/Logotipo_color.png
>>
>>
>> 
I hope this helps restore the wiki.
> 
> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not dwell on
> that. There are much more important things to invest our time in.
> Or you think that a logo is that important?
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 14:38:10 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:38:10 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
 <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <790d9759-f975-9c33-55f8-3e1063db5987@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Correction: they will upload them again to ParabolaWiki with some some
fixes.

El 20/04/17 a las 10:53, Megver83 escribi?:
> Hi, yesterday I talk with Emulatorman and Coadde and asked them
> about the deletion of the artwork, according to them, the artwork
> will be re-uploaded in "a neutral place"
> 
> That's what they told me, so later we can restore the images, but
> as Tiberiu suggested, there's the web archive.
> 
> El 20/04/17 a las 10:39, Quiliro escribi?:
>> El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:53 +0300 Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic 
>> <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:
> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> You can revert the changes coadde has made to the wiki pages
>>> in his vandalization efforts before leaving the project and
>>> reupload the deleted images from the Web Archive, such as this
>>> one:
>>> 
>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20161208020551/https://wiki.parabola.nu/
i
>
>>> 
mages/3/33/Logotipo_color.png
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> I hope this helps restore the wiki.
> 
>> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not dwell
>> on that. There are much more important things to invest our time
>> in. Or you think that a logo is that important?
> 
> 
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 15:07:06 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:07:06 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of hacker
 fellows' packages
Message-ID: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi devs, as you know, Emulatorman maintained *many* packages,
including core ones (kernels). I don't know about Coadde's packages.
Emulatorman still maintains linux-libre in AUR, and he does it
voluntarily. But we, the packagers, have to agree who will maintain
the rest of packages from [libre] and [nonprism], also the fellows'
[pcr] packages.

I don't know if maybe we can make a list of packages? because they are
many, and we cannot just let them outdated.

Regards,
Megver83

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Apr 20 15:34:44 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:34:44 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Hi devs, as you know, Emulatorman maintained *many* packages,
> including core ones (kernels). I don't know about Coadde's packages.
> Emulatorman still maintains linux-libre in AUR, and he does it
> voluntarily. But we, the packagers, have to agree who will maintain
> the rest of packages from [libre] and [nonprism], also the fellows'
> [pcr] packages.
>
> I don't know if maybe we can make a list of packages? because they are
> many, and we cannot just let them outdated.

i agree.  can you provide such list?  you can look it up on abslibre.git
or pacman's database :)

i can maintain a few

-- 
:D
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 15:48:36 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:48:36 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Ok, I'll make it later, when I have it, I'll tell you.

El 20/04/17 a las 12:34, fauno escribi?:
> Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:
>> Hi devs, as you know, Emulatorman maintained *many* packages, 
>> including core ones (kernels). I don't know about Coadde's
>> packages. Emulatorman still maintains linux-libre in AUR, and he
>> does it voluntarily. But we, the packagers, have to agree who
>> will maintain the rest of packages from [libre] and [nonprism],
>> also the fellows' [pcr] packages.
>> 
>> I don't know if maybe we can make a list of packages? because
>> they are many, and we cannot just let them outdated.
> 
> i agree.  can you provide such list?  you can look it up on
> abslibre.git or pacman's database :)
> 
> i can maintain a few
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr 20 16:35:13 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:35:13 +0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <790d9759-f975-9c33-55f8-3e1063db5987@openmailbox.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
 <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>
 <790d9759-f975-9c33-55f8-3e1063db5987@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58F8E341.8010603@ceata.org>

On 20.04.2017 17:38, Megver83 wrote:
> El 20/04/17 a las 10:53, Megver83 escribi?:
>> El 20/04/17 a las 10:39, Quiliro escribi?:
>>> El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:53 +0300 Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic 
>>> <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:

>>>> You can revert the changes coadde has made to the wiki pages
>>>> in his vandalization efforts before leaving the project and
>>>> reupload the deleted images from the Web Archive, such as this
>>>> one:

https://web.archive.org/web/20161208020551/https://wiki.parabola.nu/images/3/33/Logotipo_color.png

>> I hope this helps restore the wiki.
> 
>>> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not dwell
>>> on that. There are much more important things to invest our time
>>> in. Or you think that a logo is that important?

Please stop deciding what is important and what not. It's disturbing!

Of course all that artwork used in more than 100 wiki pages is
important. Coadde managed to vandalize the wiki in 1h30'; one of the
wiki maintainers can easily revert the changes and reupload the images
in about the same amount of time. It doesn't have to be a whole
community effort for over a month time. It's not that much work to do!

>> Hi, yesterday I talk with Emulatorman and Coadde and asked them
>> about the deletion of the artwork, according to them, the artwork
>> will be re-uploaded in "a neutral place"

That is non-sense. Artwork is not some feud. If they wanted it
somewhere, they could have copied it instead of deleting them from
Parabola wiki, thus hurting the project. This is a stupid, childish
revenge because things have not gone the way they wanted against the
consensus of the community.

>> That's what they told me, so later we can restore the images, but
>> as Tiberiu suggested, there's the web archive.

Why wait for some miracle for the artwork to pop up somewhere else. A
wiki maintainer can restore everything in 1-2h.

> Correction: they will upload them again to ParabolaWiki with some some
> fixes.

Megver83, are you their spokesperson now? Please stop doing that, you're
doing a lousy job and it's lame for them to tell you what to write after
they unsubscribed from the mailing list.

Since you are in contact with Emulatorman and Coadde, please remind them
they have Parabola hardware they need to give back to Parabola, since
they are no longer members of the project:

https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005030.html

Quiliro, now it'd be the time for you to acknowledge Parabola hardware
_is important_ and needs to be recovered.

Tiberiu


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 16:42:26 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:42:26 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <58F8E341.8010603@ceata.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
 <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>
 <790d9759-f975-9c33-55f8-3e1063db5987@openmailbox.org>
 <58F8E341.8010603@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <a46b5e4b-e85d-caa6-d620-1a545605be96@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

El 20/04/17 a las 13:35, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic escribi?:
> On 20.04.2017 17:38, Megver83 wrote:
>> El 20/04/17 a las 10:53, Megver83 escribi?:
>>> El 20/04/17 a las 10:39, Quiliro escribi?:
>>>> El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:53 +0300 Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic 
>>>> <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:
> 
>>>>> You can revert the changes coadde has made to the wiki
>>>>> pages in his vandalization efforts before leaving the
>>>>> project and reupload the deleted images from the Web
>>>>> Archive, such as this one:
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20161208020551/https://wiki.parabola.nu/im
ages/3/33/Logotipo_color.png
>
> 
>>> I hope this helps restore the wiki.
>> 
>>>> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not
>>>> dwell on that. There are much more important things to invest
>>>> our time in. Or you think that a logo is that important?
> 
> Please stop deciding what is important and what not. It's
> disturbing!
> 
> Of course all that artwork used in more than 100 wiki pages is 
> important. Coadde managed to vandalize the wiki in 1h30'; one of
> the wiki maintainers can easily revert the changes and reupload the
> images in about the same amount of time. It doesn't have to be a
> whole community effort for over a month time. It's not that much
> work to do!
> 
>>> Hi, yesterday I talk with Emulatorman and Coadde and asked
>>> them about the deletion of the artwork, according to them, the
>>> artwork will be re-uploaded in "a neutral place"
> 
> That is non-sense. Artwork is not some feud. If they wanted it 
> somewhere, they could have copied it instead of deleting them from 
> Parabola wiki, thus hurting the project. This is a stupid,
> childish revenge because things have not gone the way they wanted
> against the consensus of the community.

The artwork *is going to be restored* by them.

>>> That's what they told me, so later we can restore the images,
>>> but as Tiberiu suggested, there's the web archive.
> 
> Why wait for some miracle for the artwork to pop up somewhere else.
> A wiki maintainer can restore everything in 1-2h.
> 
>> Correction: they will upload them again to ParabolaWiki with some
>> some fixes.
> 
> Megver83, are you their spokesperson now? Please stop doing that,
> you're doing a lousy job and it's lame for them to tell you what to
> write after they unsubscribed from the mailing list.

Well, you wanted to know, right?

> Since you are in contact with Emulatorman and Coadde, please remind
> them they have Parabola hardware they need to give back to
> Parabola, since they are no longer members of the project:
> 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005030.html

OK, I will

> Quiliro, now it'd be the time for you to acknowledge Parabola
> hardware _is important_ and needs to be recovered.
> 
> Tiberiu
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr 20 16:46:09 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:46:09 +0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <a46b5e4b-e85d-caa6-d620-1a545605be96@openmailbox.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
 <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>
 <790d9759-f975-9c33-55f8-3e1063db5987@openmailbox.org>
 <58F8E341.8010603@ceata.org>
 <a46b5e4b-e85d-caa6-d620-1a545605be96@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58F8E5D1.1020107@ceata.org>

On 20.04.2017 19:42, Megver83 wrote:
> El 20/04/17 a las 13:35, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic escribi?:
>> On 20.04.2017 17:38, Megver83 wrote:
>>> El 20/04/17 a las 10:53, Megver83 escribi?:
>>>> El 20/04/17 a las 10:39, Quiliro escribi?:
>>>>> El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:53 +0300 Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic 
>>>>> <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:
> 
>>>>>> You can revert the changes coadde has made to the wiki
>>>>>> pages in his vandalization efforts before leaving the
>>>>>> project and reupload the deleted images from the Web
>>>>>> Archive, such as this one:
> 
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20161208020551/https://wiki.parabola.nu/im
> ages/3/33/Logotipo_color.png
> 
> 
>>>> I hope this helps restore the wiki.
>>>
>>>>> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not
>>>>> dwell on that. There are much more important things to invest
>>>>> our time in. Or you think that a logo is that important?
> 
>> Please stop deciding what is important and what not. It's
>> disturbing!
> 
>> Of course all that artwork used in more than 100 wiki pages is 
>> important. Coadde managed to vandalize the wiki in 1h30'; one of
>> the wiki maintainers can easily revert the changes and reupload the
>> images in about the same amount of time. It doesn't have to be a
>> whole community effort for over a month time. It's not that much
>> work to do!
> 
>>>> Hi, yesterday I talk with Emulatorman and Coadde and asked
>>>> them about the deletion of the artwork, according to them, the
>>>> artwork will be re-uploaded in "a neutral place"
> 
>> That is non-sense. Artwork is not some feud. If they wanted it 
>> somewhere, they could have copied it instead of deleting them from 
>> Parabola wiki, thus hurting the project. This is a stupid,
>> childish revenge because things have not gone the way they wanted
>> against the consensus of the community.
> 
> The artwork *is going to be restored* by them.

I don't get it. Why they have deleted it in the first place?

They don't have the wiki permissions to restore anything now. And they
can't possibly expect the Parabola community to trust them again with
doing changes to the wiki.

>>>> That's what they told me, so later we can restore the images,
>>>> but as Tiberiu suggested, there's the web archive.
> 
>> Why wait for some miracle for the artwork to pop up somewhere else.
>> A wiki maintainer can restore everything in 1-2h.
> 
>>> Correction: they will upload them again to ParabolaWiki with some
>>> some fixes.
> 
>> Megver83, are you their spokesperson now? Please stop doing that,
>> you're doing a lousy job and it's lame for them to tell you what to
>> write after they unsubscribed from the mailing list.
> 
> Well, you wanted to know, right?

Do yourself and everybody a favor: *quote* them! Don't speak for them.

They have published a lot of private communication lately. Surely you
can quote them, even if it's not in their interest anymore.

>> Since you are in contact with Emulatorman and Coadde, please remind
>> them they have Parabola hardware they need to give back to
>> Parabola, since they are no longer members of the project:
> 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005030.html
> 
> OK, I will

I'm sure the community appreciates this.

>> Quiliro, now it'd be the time for you to acknowledge Parabola
>> hardware _is important_ and needs to be recovered.

Tiberiu


From andreas at grapentin.org  Thu Apr 20 17:05:39 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:05:39 +0200
Subject: [Dev] I want to become a parabola hacker!
Message-ID: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>


Hi everyone,

I would like to step in and volunteer to become a parabola hacker, and
help maintain infrastructure and packages. I think it's time for me to
step in and do some actual work for the project :)

Some info on me to back up my application:

  - you might know me as 'oaken-source' from IRC
  - I donated and maintain mirror.grapentin.org, the (currently only)
    german parabola mirror
  - before migrating to parabola, I have been using arch for longer than
    I can remember; I maintain a couple of desktop parabola installs
    now, as well as 2 dedicated servers running parabola
  - I maintain a private parabola package repo for miscellaneous stuff,
    and have some experience with writing PKGBUILDs, building packages
    from source, and using libretools
  - I have tons of experience in writing C / python / bash code, and to
    a slightly lesser extent in many other programming languages
  - I have a M.Sc. in Software Engineering from the University of
    Potsdam, mainly focused on system software and operating systems
  - I am currently doing my PhD in operating systems and middleware at
    the same university
  - this is my github profile (slightly out of date; I only just
    recently adopted the FSF endorsed terminology, some projects might
    sill say "open source" all over them):
    https://github.com/oaken-source/
  - I strongly dislike ruby and perl.

I hope you will allow me to make myself useful :)

Best,
Andreas


-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 17:10:32 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:10:32 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <58F8E5D1.1020107@ceata.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
 <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>
 <790d9759-f975-9c33-55f8-3e1063db5987@openmailbox.org>
 <58F8E341.8010603@ceata.org>
 <a46b5e4b-e85d-caa6-d620-1a545605be96@openmailbox.org>
 <58F8E5D1.1020107@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <8566fc8f-34a5-a54d-c92f-08a47690c4b5@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

El 20/04/17 a las 13:46, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic escribi?:
> On 20.04.2017 19:42, Megver83 wrote:
>> El 20/04/17 a las 13:35, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic escribi?:
>>> On 20.04.2017 17:38, Megver83 wrote:
>>>> El 20/04/17 a las 10:53, Megver83 escribi?:
>>>>> El 20/04/17 a las 10:39, Quiliro escribi?:
>>>>>> El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:53 +0300 Tiberiu-Cezar
>>>>>> Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:
>> 
>>>>>>> You can revert the changes coadde has made to the wiki 
>>>>>>> pages in his vandalization efforts before leaving the 
>>>>>>> project and reupload the deleted images from the Web 
>>>>>>> Archive, such as this one:
>> 
>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20161208020551/https://wiki.parabola.nu/
im
>>
>>> 
ages/3/33/Logotipo_color.png
>> 
>> 
>>>>> I hope this helps restore the wiki.
>>>> 
>>>>>> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not 
>>>>>> dwell on that. There are much more important things to
>>>>>> invest our time in. Or you think that a logo is that
>>>>>> important?
>> 
>>> Please stop deciding what is important and what not. It's 
>>> disturbing!
>> 
>>> Of course all that artwork used in more than 100 wiki pages is
>>>  important. Coadde managed to vandalize the wiki in 1h30'; one
>>> of the wiki maintainers can easily revert the changes and
>>> reupload the images in about the same amount of time. It
>>> doesn't have to be a whole community effort for over a month
>>> time. It's not that much work to do!
>> 
>>>>> Hi, yesterday I talk with Emulatorman and Coadde and asked 
>>>>> them about the deletion of the artwork, according to them,
>>>>> the artwork will be re-uploaded in "a neutral place"
>> 
>>> That is non-sense. Artwork is not some feud. If they wanted it
>>>  somewhere, they could have copied it instead of deleting them
>>> from Parabola wiki, thus hurting the project. This is a
>>> stupid, childish revenge because things have not gone the way
>>> they wanted against the consensus of the community.
>> 
>> The artwork *is going to be restored* by them.
> 
> I don't get it. Why they have deleted it in the first place?
> 
> They don't have the wiki permissions to restore anything now. And
> they can't possibly expect the Parabola community to trust them
> again with doing changes to the wiki.

*Quotes:*

[19:58:12] Megver83: si, fue intenso que 3 devs se fueran
[19:58:20] emulatorman: si
[19:58:32] Megver83: y se llevaran el arte
[19:58:55] emulatorman: bah, pero eso ahora estara publicamente en un
lugar neutral
[19:59:06] emulatorman: pueden copiarlo a gusto y desgusto
[19:59:13] Megver83: si me dijo coadde
[19:59:23] Megver83: es decir, lo movieron

Translation:

[19:58:12] Megver83: yes, it was hard that 3 devs leave
[19:58:20] emulatorman: yes
[19:58:32] Megver83: and they took away the artwork
[19:58:55] emulatorman: bah, but that will be public in a neutral place
[19:59:06] emulatorman: you can copy it as you want and like
[19:59:13] Megver83: Yes, coadde told me
[19:59:23] Megver83: that means, you moved it

And later he told me:

[10:58:55] emulatorman: coadde me dijo que ni bien suba las artes a
savannah, me dijo que va a empezar a restaurar en la wiki de Parabola
[10:59:06] emulatorman: con arreglos
[10:59:11] Megver83: ok
[10:59:22] Megver83: es decir, lo van a re-subir con modificaciones
[10:59:56] emulatorman: si
[11:00:00] emulatorman: una version mejorada

(...)

[11:36:26] emulatorman: puedes escribir una carta en devs aclarando
que tuvimos una conversacion (que fue ahora reciente) de que vamos a
restaurar las imagenes en Parabola y organizarlas de una mejor forma
en la wiki de como estaba antes? crazytoon y coadde van a escribir una
carta alla en devs en unas horas
[11:36:44] Megver83: ok
[11:36:52] emulatorman: vimos que la organizacion y composicion
anterior expuesta estaba un desastre
[11:36:57] Megver83: de todas formas ya les dije que iban a resubirlas
[11:36:56] emulatorman: de composici?n
[11:37:15] emulatorman: no tenian ni un vinculo ni con el texto
[11:37:34] emulatorman: y las ilustraciones se repetian continuamente
[11:37:49] Megver83: :O
[11:37:59] emulatorman: entonces antes de ellos retirarse quieren
dejar un buen legado en arte y bien prolijo para la comunidad en Parabol
a
[11:38:22] Megver83: que bueno

Translation:


[10:58:55] emulatorman: coadde told me that as soon as I upload the
arts to Savannah, he told me that he will begin to restore in the
Parabola wiki
[10:59:06] emulatorman: with fixes
[10:59:11] Megver83: ok
[10:59:22] Megver83: that means, you will re-upload it with modification
s
[10:59:56] emulatorman: yes
[11:00:00] emulatorman: an improved version

(...)

[11:36:26] emulatorman: you can write a letter to devs clarifying that
we had a conversation (this one recently) about that we will restore
the images in Parabola and organize them in a better way in the wiki
compared to how was before? crazytoon and coadde will write a letter
there in devs in some hours
[11:36:44] Megver83: ok
[11:36:52] emulatorman: we saw the previous organization and
composition it was a disaster
[11:36:57] Megver83: anyways I told them you were going to re-upload the
m
[11:36:56] emulatorman: of composition
[11:37:15] emulatorman: they had neither a link nor the text
[11:37:34] emulatorman: and the illustrations were repeated continuously
[11:37:49] Megver83: :O
[11:37:59] emulatorman: then before they retire they want to leave a
good legacy in art and very neat for the community in Parabola
[11:38:22] Megver83: That's good



>>>>> That's what they told me, so later we can restore the
>>>>> images, but as Tiberiu suggested, there's the web archive.
>> 
>>> Why wait for some miracle for the artwork to pop up somewhere
>>> else. A wiki maintainer can restore everything in 1-2h.
>> 
>>>> Correction: they will upload them again to ParabolaWiki with
>>>> some some fixes.
>> 
>>> Megver83, are you their spokesperson now? Please stop doing
>>> that, you're doing a lousy job and it's lame for them to tell
>>> you what to write after they unsubscribed from the mailing
>>> list.
>> 
>> Well, you wanted to know, right?
> 
> Do yourself and everybody a favor: *quote* them! Don't speak for
> them.
> 
> They have published a lot of private communication lately. Surely
> you can quote them, even if it's not in their interest anymore.

Ready!

>>> Since you are in contact with Emulatorman and Coadde, please
>>> remind them they have Parabola hardware they need to give back
>>> to Parabola, since they are no longer members of the project:
>> 
>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005030.html
>> 
>> OK, I will
> 
> I'm sure the community appreciates this.

Of course!

>>> Quiliro, now it'd be the time for you to acknowledge Parabola 
>>> hardware _is important_ and needs to be recovered.
> 
> Tiberiu
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 17:15:47 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:15:47 -0300
Subject: [Dev] I want to become a parabola hacker!
In-Reply-To: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
References: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
Message-ID: <d0768461-b0c9-d381-39e4-aca352648c78@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Excellent! these are good news. Which rols to you want to take? or you
prefer us to choose it for you?

Then send us your ssh key and sign, and optionally a profile of you
and a photo, see this example[0]

Regards,
Megver83

[0]
https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/plain/users/1036.yml?id=2b0612a4d5f5
268c55e258a41cc84d153226ec72

El 20/04/17 a las 14:05, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I would like to step in and volunteer to become a parabola hacker, 
> and help maintain infrastructure and packages. I think it's time 
> for me to step in and do some actual work for the project :)
> 
> Some info on me to back up my application:
> 
> - you might know me as 'oaken-source' from IRC - I donated and 
> maintain mirror.grapentin.org, the (currently only) german
> parabola mirror - before migrating to parabola, I have been using
> arch for longer than I can remember; I maintain a couple of desktop
> parabola installs now, as well as 2 dedicated servers running
> parabola - I maintain a private parabola package repo for
> miscellaneous stuff, and have some experience with writing
> PKGBUILDs, building packages from source, and using libretools - I
> have tons of experience in writing C / python / bash code, and to a
> slightly lesser extent in many other programming languages - I have
> a M.Sc. in Software Engineering from the University of Potsdam,
> mainly focused on system software and operating systems - I am
> currently doing my PhD in operating systems and middleware at the
> same university - this is my github profile (slightly out of date;
> I only just recently adopted the FSF endorsed terminology, some
> projects might sill say "open source" all over them):
> https://github.com/oaken-source/ - I strongly dislike ruby and
> perl.
> 
> I hope you will allow me to make myself useful :)
> 
> Best, Andreas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From crazytoon at riseup.net  Thu Apr 20 17:38:26 2017
From: crazytoon at riseup.net (Crazytoon)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:38:26 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Clarifications for the artwork that were temporarily removed
 in Parabola
Message-ID: <60be3aa4-68c3-1bfe-5047-912d04b2605f@riseup.net>

Dear Parabola community:

I turn to you again with the aim of raising an issue that I was worrying
for a while.

During the days before the FISL17 event, the art team composed by
coadde, catira and me was speeding up the best possible and in a record
time, the whole environment of the Parabola distro, with free art for a
better presentation for this event.

In this too small schedule, and with the bustle of the production of
illustrations that make up those rules, we accidentally "neglected" (so
to speak), basic rules of what concerns an adequate artistic composition.

Professionally, for an artist, the material that we wish to leave as a
legacy, lacks an adequate composition, since it does not respect the
basic rules of the **golden section** in the exhibition of the
illustrations that are exposed.

At first glance (and I repeat) from the artistic point of view, our
exposure appears to be an amateur thing in its context.

As an example I can cite the following:

* The content of the text is par excellence the protagonist, and never
the illustrations as we can appreciate; So that the excessive volume,
dimension and notoriety of an illustration inevitably diverts attention
to the rule to be exposed.

* The inadequate location of an illustration is also a serious problem,
but worse still is when such illustrations have no connection or
relationship between them.

* The constant repetition of the same illustration, in completely
different subjects, shows a clear lack in the artistic production, since
it makes the exhibition redundant.

But unfortunately what is even worse to the above, is that we discover
major faults that accidentally let them pass, which I quote immediately:

* Many illustrations and drawings, unfortunately were with serious
licensing errors, some even violated the licenses of free art, which at
that time we did not realize.

* Just to cite an example, on the one hand we had illustrations with
CC-BY-SA licenses, and others simply lacked licenses altogether, making
them non-free illustrations that radically violated the social contract.

Because of all this, I repeatedly asked coadde to withdraw all possible
illustrations, to make a thorough study of these errors, but
unfortunately I found more errors than I expected.

For this reason, in my brief farewell [0], I made it clear that **the
withdrawal of this material was temporary**, so I hope you understand
this situation.

Personally I thought that in just a day or two at most, we could solve
these flaws.

In order for you to stay calm, we will sending you the whole pack
through archive.org with the contents of all the illustrations and let
you know when it is ready. Otherwise, please we ask us to give at least
a month's time to fix all these faults.

Without further ado, we apologize for misunderstandings.

A hug for everyone:

Crazytoon

P.S. Please, if possible, open a temporary account to make the uploads
(on the wiki) of these improvements too.

[0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005020.html

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From quiliro at riseup.net  Thu Apr 20 17:38:58 2017
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quiliro)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:38:58 -0500
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <58F8E341.8010603@ceata.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
 <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>
 <790d9759-f975-9c33-55f8-3e1063db5987@openmailbox.org>
 <58F8E341.8010603@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <20170420121518.13209b20@riseup.net>

El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:35:13 +0300
Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:

> >>> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not dwell
> >>> on that. There are much more important things to invest our time
> >>> in. Or you think that a logo is that important?  
> 
> Please stop deciding what is important and what not. It's disturbing!

I have not. That is why I am asking. You are not the only one that has
an opinion. You seem to be disturbed by everyone and everything.

> Quiliro, now it'd be the time for you to acknowledge Parabola hardware
> _is important_ and needs to be recovered.

I don't know about the details and I would rather them take the
hardware and Ceata take the money than continue with all this
competition. I do will collaborate and avoid future confrontation.
Please count me out of the unproductive attacks and the penny fighting.

-- 
Example of rude top posting:

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

A: No.
Q: Should I leave quotations after my reply?

Saluton,
Quiliro
0987631031




From heckyel at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 17:42:49 2017
From: heckyel at openmailbox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Jes=c3=bas_Eduardo?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:42:49 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Request to become a packager
Message-ID: <234b4577-80a0-28b0-b905-403d35dd537e@openmailbox.org>

Hello dear friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre distribution, 

I really love your work, because of that, I want to contribute and maintenance of the operating system.

The requirements are written here:

Fingerprint: 916F FBC7 6D2E 641B A416  BA53 364F 4E14 8344 6AC5
key GPG in keys.gnupg.net: 0x8E42B7AD85DB8221
My GPG Key is: 916FFBC76D2E641BA416BA53364F4E1483446AC5


Best regards. Have a good day.


-- 
Jes?s Eduardo | Developer
https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/cybersy/
https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org

Protect your emails with GnuPG:
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org

Free Software Webmail Systems
https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 17:48:16 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:48:16 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Request to become a packager
In-Reply-To: <234b4577-80a0-28b0-b905-403d35dd537e@openmailbox.org>
References: <234b4577-80a0-28b0-b905-403d35dd537e@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <d04e6191-40f4-b486-111b-efec555dc96f@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

awesome, really, 2 people in one day willing to keep Parabola alive
and asking for that :D
If you want to become a packager, you need that 3 devs sign you, I'll
add your profile to the git repository.

Can you tell us your skills? please?

El 20/04/17 a las 14:42, Jes?s Eduardo escribi?:
> Hello dear friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre distribution,
> 
> I really love your work, because of that, I want to contribute and
> maintenance of the operating system.
> 
> The requirements are written here:
> 
> Fingerprint: 916F FBC7 6D2E 641B A416  BA53 364F 4E14 8344 6AC5 key
> GPG in keys.gnupg.net: 0x8E42B7AD85DB8221 My GPG Key is:
> 916FFBC76D2E641BA416BA53364F4E1483446AC5
> 
> 
> Best regards. Have a good day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Apr 20 17:48:02 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:48:02 -0300
Subject: [Dev] I want to become a parabola hacker!
In-Reply-To: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
References: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
Message-ID: <87mvbbx965.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Andreas Grapentin <andreas at grapentin.org> writes:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I would like to step in and volunteer to become a parabola hacker, and
> help maintain infrastructure and packages. I think it's time for me to
> step in and do some actual work for the project :)
>
> Some info on me to back up my application:
>
>   - you might know me as 'oaken-source' from IRC
>   - I donated and maintain mirror.grapentin.org, the (currently only)
>     german parabola mirror
>   - before migrating to parabola, I have been using arch for longer than
>     I can remember; I maintain a couple of desktop parabola installs
>     now, as well as 2 dedicated servers running parabola
>   - I maintain a private parabola package repo for miscellaneous stuff,
>     and have some experience with writing PKGBUILDs, building packages
>     from source, and using libretools
>   - I have tons of experience in writing C / python / bash code, and to
>     a slightly lesser extent in many other programming languages
>   - I have a M.Sc. in Software Engineering from the University of
>     Potsdam, mainly focused on system software and operating systems
>   - I am currently doing my PhD in operating systems and middleware at
>     the same university
>   - this is my github profile (slightly out of date; I only just
>     recently adopted the FSF endorsed terminology, some projects might
>     sill say "open source" all over them):
>     https://github.com/oaken-source/

cool cv!

>   - I strongly dislike ruby and perl.

this is a no no for me :P

what would you like to do?  there's a few packages coming our way in the
next days, maybe you can pick some from there?

-- 
 D
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From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr 20 18:14:02 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:14:02 +0300
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <20170420121518.13209b20@riseup.net>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
 <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>
 <790d9759-f975-9c33-55f8-3e1063db5987@openmailbox.org>
 <58F8E341.8010603@ceata.org> <20170420121518.13209b20@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58F8FA6A.4010605@ceata.org>

On 20.04.2017 20:38, Quiliro wrote:
> El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:35:13 +0300
> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:
> 
>>>>> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not dwell
>>>>> on that. There are much more important things to invest our time
>>>>> in. Or you think that a logo is that important?  
>>
>> Please stop deciding what is important and what not. It's disturbing!
> 
> I have not. That is why I am asking.

Really? You weren't insinuating that this is not important enough for
"your" (plural) time. You want me to believe you were asking out of
genuine curiosity.

Please tell me, what exactly are you doing for this project? Are you
spending time actually doing something "productive" for this project?

I'm asking because you emphasize a lot the productiveness and you appear
to be always concerned about not wasting "your" (plural) time with petty
things.

If you don't contribute with anything "productive" yet (offering
external unsolicited and uninformed advice is not something to be
considered "productive"), you could start. See this application from
today for an example on how to start:

https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005066.html

> You are not the only one that has
> an opinion. You seem to be disturbed by everyone and everything.

It's disturbing to read misguided or malicious people on this mailing
list. But they are a minority in Parabola, although they are very vocal
and try to make the community believe that they are a majority and that
they have legitimacy.

So no, I'm not disturbed "by everyone and everything". I'm not disturbed
by Parabola people wanting to find a fiscal sponsor, I support that and
even found a good candidate. I'm not disturbed with Parabola people
wanting to maintain packages left unmaintained by disturbing people. Nor
with Parabola people warning that the wiki has been vandalized.

In few words, I'm only disturbed with people only giving the appearance
of benevolence, and not doing any "productive" work. Do you believe this
description applies to you by any chance?

>> Quiliro, now it'd be the time for you to acknowledge Parabola hardware
>> _is important_ and needs to be recovered.
> 
> I don't know about the details and I would rather them take the
> hardware and Ceata take the money than continue with all this
> competition. I do will collaborate and avoid future confrontation.
> Please count me out of the unproductive attacks and the penny fighting.

It's easy to give up things that are not yours. But the Parabola people
need to fight for what they have, because they have worked very hard to
get it. So no, Ceata can't and won't take any money from the Parabola
fund. And the Parabola hardware needs to be used by Parabola people for
the advancement of the Parabola project. Not by former members for
whatever personal projects.

Tiberiu


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Apr 20 18:21:25 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:21:25 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Request to become a packager
In-Reply-To: <d04e6191-40f4-b486-111b-efec555dc96f@openmailbox.org>
References: <234b4577-80a0-28b0-b905-403d35dd537e@openmailbox.org>
 <d04e6191-40f4-b486-111b-efec555dc96f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87h91jx7mi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> awesome, really, 2 people in one day willing to keep Parabola alive
> and asking for that :D

:D

> If you want to become a packager, you need that 3 devs sign you, I'll
> add your profile to the git repository.
>
> Can you tell us your skills? please?

can we finish this discussion instead of keeping on adding new hackers
willy-nilly?  (always wanted to use this expression :P)

Subject: [Dev] Goals/direction for the coming year

i promised a draft on shadows/sponsorship.  i can do this next week if
no one beats me to it ;) ;), i'm currently preparing for flisol.

lukeshu: are you on the pad?  we can work this draft there, but if
you're busy i'll just start it on a public one and post the url here.

-- 
:D
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 18:25:43 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:25:43 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Request to become a packager
In-Reply-To: <87h91jx7mi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <234b4577-80a0-28b0-b905-403d35dd537e@openmailbox.org>
 <d04e6191-40f4-b486-111b-efec555dc96f@openmailbox.org>
 <87h91jx7mi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <fbfce8c1-93af-c6b8-85ac-032b4f0a4d8e@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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El 20/04/17 a las 15:21, fauno escribi?:
> i'm currently preparing for flisol.

Me too!

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Apr 20 18:24:35 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:24:35 -0300
Subject: [Dev] I want to become a parabola hacker!
In-Reply-To: <87mvbbx965.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
 <87mvbbx965.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <87efwnx7h8.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org> writes:
> cool cv!
>
>>   - I strongly dislike ruby and perl.
>
> this is a no no for me :P
>
> what would you like to do?  there's a few packages coming our way in the
> next days, maybe you can pick some from there?

what i just said on the other thread applies here too :)
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From hahj87 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 18:37:43 2017
From: hahj87 at gmail.com (Joshua Haase)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:43 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <20170415092018.GA855@athena>
References: <20170414222850.GB821@athena> <87vaq6pi3q.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <20170415092018.GA855@athena>
Message-ID: <87y3uvsz60.fsf@riseup.net>

"Nicol?s A. Ortega" <deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net> writes:

> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 09:36:25PM -0400, Luke Shumaker wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:28:50 -0400,
>> Nicol?s A. Ortega wrote:
>> As attractive as that proposal is, it doesn't allow for quickly
>> handling uncontroversially nonfree packages.

Why not? The default action is to "quarantine" it (quick response).
Then it gets documented and it may be proved that the package is
non-free or not by using a central place.

>> And really, the Parabola dev community hasn't generally been receptive
>> to big ol' processes they have to step through.

I think the process should be as automated as posible.
I'd be willing to work on that, maybe integrating this flow to
parabola-web.

>> > The most important thing I want to be taken away from this is that
>> > information on the freedom issues of a package should be *easily
>> > available*. I shouldn't have to be asking absolutely everyone in the
>> > community who has the actual links so I can verify for my own eyes.
>> > What's more, the more eyes we have on the issue the more information we
>> > can obtain and the faster we can solve things.

+1

>> In blacklist.txt, there is a field for a 'ref' referencing Debian,
>> LibrePlanet, Savannah, Fedora, or Parabola (our bug tracker), for
>> where you can read about justification for it being blacklisted.
>> 
>> Perhaps we should make this field mandatory?

+1


From hahj87 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 19:05:06 2017
From: hahj87 at gmail.com (Joshua Haase)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:05:06 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
In-Reply-To: <20170415092018.GA855@athena>
Message-ID: <87tw5iucgt.fsf@riseup.net>

An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Joshua Haase <hahj87 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Dev] Policy for Package Quarantines
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:43 -0500
Size: 2068
URL: <https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/attachments/20170420/56043f2b/attachment.eml>

From nobody at parabola.nu  Thu Apr 20 19:30:02 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:30:02 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [systemd] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170420193002.1103.84098@proton.parabola.nu>

jm.100best at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* libsystemd 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/libsystemd/
* libsystemd 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/libsystemd/
* libsystemd 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/libsystemd/
* libsystemd-standalone 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/libsystemd-standalone/
* libsystemd-standalone 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/libsystemd-standalone/
* libsystemd-standalone 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/libsystemd-standalone/
* libudev 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/libudev/
* libudev 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/libudev/
* libudev 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/libudev/
* nss-myhostname 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/nss-myhostname/
* nss-myhostname 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/nss-myhostname/
* nss-myhostname 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/nss-myhostname/
* nss-mymachines 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/nss-mymachines/
* nss-mymachines 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/nss-mymachines/
* nss-mymachines 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/nss-mymachines/
* nss-resolve 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/nss-resolve/
* nss-resolve 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/nss-resolve/
* nss-resolve 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/nss-resolve/
* systemd 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/systemd/
* systemd 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/systemd/
* systemd 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/systemd/
* systemd-sysvcompat 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/systemd-sysvcompat/
* systemd-sysvcompat 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/systemd-sysvcompat/
* systemd-sysvcompat 232-8.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/systemd-sysvcompat/


The user provided the following additional text:

233



From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Apr 20 19:38:26 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:38:26 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Hardware Donations Was: Re:  [IMPORTANT] Goodbye Parabola
In-Reply-To: <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
> Not so fast! You have Parabola hardware in your possession. Have you
> made arrangements to get it shipped to the nearest Parabola developer?
>
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Non-Monetary_Donations
>
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18507&oldid=18504
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=15156&oldid=15155
> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003914.html
>
> plus the Hardware Expenses section in the GNUcash file.
>
> This list of Parabola hardware in your possession might not be exhaustive:
>
> * 2x BeagleBone Black rev.C
> * 1x C.H.I.P.
> * 5x Jumper DuPont wire
> * 1x FT232R USB UART device
> * 1x USB-miniUSB cable
> * 1x Kingston 8 GB microSDHC card class 4
> * 1x Kingston 16 GB microSDHC card class 4
> * 1x Dell Latitude 2110
> * 1x Netgear WNA1100
> * 1x AC power adapter 2P 10A
> * 1x generic AC/DC adapter model YDH500300A
> * 1x 220V-110V converter

i asked ebrasca on irc if his hardware donations were personal donations
to emulatorman or donations to parabola.  he wasn't around so pbot will
deliver the message.

g4jc should clarify the same for his donations.

robofun's beagle bone was to parabola, so IMO at least parabola needs to
recover that.  i think i'm the nearest but i'm not able to work on the
ARM port.

-- 
http://partidopirata.com.ar
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 19:54:10 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:54:10 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Hardware Donations Was: Re: [IMPORTANT] Goodbye Parabola
In-Reply-To: <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org> <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi, here's the conversation I had with emulatorman (in spanish)

[13:50:06] Megver83: que planeas hacer con el hardware de Parabola que
tienes?
[14:46:33] emulatorman: primero, ese hardware don? Luke .R a coadde
para colaborar en Parabola y en proyectos libres
[14:47:35] emulatorman: es diferente si la donacion fuese para
parabola y que nosotros cuidaramos de ?l
[14:47:50] emulatorman: ahi te entiendo y devuelvo lo que no fue
donado a nosotros
[14:48:18] emulatorman: pero las donaciones que fueron a nosotros para
colaborar en los proyectos de software libre es diferente porque son
donaciones personales
[14:48:35] Megver83: si, entiendo
[14:48:41] Megver83: yo dec?a por las otras donaciones
[14:48:41] emulatorman: si dudan de nosotros, contacten a g4jc
[14:49:02] Megver83: yo ya ten?a claro que el servidor era para uds.
[14:49:10] emulatorman: el servidor no ha llegado aqui aun
[14:49:45] emulatorman: el beaglebone fue una donacion que pedi a
parabola que me dieran a mi para poder desarrrollar grub y los kernels

In english:

[13:50:06] Megver83: what do you plan to do with the Parabola hardware
you have?
[14:46:33] emulatorman: first, that hardware was donated Luke .R to
coadde to collaborate in Parabola and in free projects
[14:47:35] emulatorman: it's different if the donation was to parabola
and we take care of it
[14:47:50] emulatorman: then I understand and I return what was not
donated to us
[14:48:18] emulatorman: but donations that went to us to collaborate
on free software projects is different because they are personal donatio
ns
[14:48:35] Megver83: Yes, I understand.
[14:48:41] Megver83: I said for the other donations
[14:48:41] emulatorman: If you doubt about us, contact g4jc
[14:49:02] Megver83: I was already clear about the server was for you.
[14:49:10] emulatorman: the server has not arrived yet
[14:49:45] emulatorman: the beaglebone was a donation that I asked
parabola to give me to be able to develop grub and kernels

El 20/04/17 a las 16:38, fauno escribi?:
> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>> Not so fast! You have Parabola hardware in your possession. Have
>> you made arrangements to get it shipped to the nearest Parabola
>> developer?
>> 
>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Non-Monetary_Donations
>> 
>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff
=18507&oldid=18504
>>
>> 
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=15
156&oldid=15155
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003914.html
>> 
>> plus the Hardware Expenses section in the GNUcash file.
>> 
>> This list of Parabola hardware in your possession might not be
>> exhaustive:
>> 
>> * 2x BeagleBone Black rev.C * 1x C.H.I.P. * 5x Jumper DuPont
>> wire * 1x FT232R USB UART device * 1x USB-miniUSB cable * 1x
>> Kingston 8 GB microSDHC card class 4 * 1x Kingston 16 GB
>> microSDHC card class 4 * 1x Dell Latitude 2110 * 1x Netgear
>> WNA1100 * 1x AC power adapter 2P 10A * 1x generic AC/DC adapter
>> model YDH500300A * 1x 220V-110V converter
> 
> i asked ebrasca on irc if his hardware donations were personal
> donations to emulatorman or donations to parabola.  he wasn't
> around so pbot will deliver the message.
> 
> g4jc should clarify the same for his donations.
> 
> robofun's beagle bone was to parabola, so IMO at least parabola
> needs to recover that.  i think i'm the nearest but i'm not able to
> work on the ARM port.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr 20 20:40:48 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:40:48 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Hardware Donations Was: Re: [IMPORTANT] Goodbye Parabola
In-Reply-To: <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org> <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58F91CD0.6080706@ceata.org>

On 20.04.2017 22:54, Megver83 wrote:
> El 20/04/17 a las 16:38, fauno escribi?:
>> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>>> Not so fast! You have Parabola hardware in your possession. Have
>>> you made arrangements to get it shipped to the nearest Parabola
>>> developer?
>>>
>>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Non-Monetary_Donations
>>>
>>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18507&oldid=18504
>>>
>>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=15156&oldid=15155
>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003914.html
>>>
>>> plus the Hardware Expenses section in the GNUcash file.
>>>
>>> This list of Parabola hardware in your possession might not be
>>> exhaustive:
>>>
>>> * 2x BeagleBone Black rev.C * 1x C.H.I.P. * 5x Jumper DuPont
>>> wire * 1x FT232R USB UART device * 1x USB-miniUSB cable * 1x
>>> Kingston 8 GB microSDHC card class 4 * 1x Kingston 16 GB
>>> microSDHC card class 4 * 1x Dell Latitude 2110 * 1x Netgear
>>> WNA1100 * 1x AC power adapter 2P 10A * 1x generic AC/DC adapter
>>> model YDH500300A * 1x 220V-110V converter
> 
>> i asked ebrasca on irc if his hardware donations were personal
>> donations to emulatorman or donations to parabola.  he wasn't
>> around so pbot will deliver the message.
> 
>> g4jc should clarify the same for his donations.

Since these donations have been committed to the Parabola wiki's SVN
repository as non-monetary donations to Parabola by the recipients while
they were members, it is clear that the donations have been declared as
donations to Parabola, and are not personal donations.

All this hardware needs to be returned ASAP.

>> robofun's beagle bone was to parabola, so IMO at least parabola
>> needs to recover that.  i think i'm the nearest but i'm not able to
>> work on the ARM port.

Let's not forget about the adapter and converter paid from the Parabola
fund.

Since you are the delegate and time is of the essence (if we wait too
long, former members will "forget" they have to return hardware), I
believe it's better that all the hardware is shipped to you first. Then,
it can be sent to people that require some of this hardware for their
work for Parabola.

Tiberiu

P.S. Megver83 your e-mail client breaks the links. I don't know if you
are aware of that.

> Hi, here's the conversation I had with emulatorman (in spanish)
>
> [13:50:06] Megver83: que planeas hacer con el hardware de Parabola que
> tienes?
> [14:46:33] emulatorman: primero, ese hardware don? Luke .R a coadde
> para colaborar en Parabola y en proyectos libres
> [14:47:35] emulatorman: es diferente si la donacion fuese para
> parabola y que nosotros cuidaramos de ?l
> [14:47:50] emulatorman: ahi te entiendo y devuelvo lo que no fue
> donado a nosotros
> [14:48:18] emulatorman: pero las donaciones que fueron a nosotros para
> colaborar en los proyectos de software libre es diferente porque son
> donaciones personales
> [14:48:35] Megver83: si, entiendo
> [14:48:41] Megver83: yo dec?a por las otras donaciones
> [14:48:41] emulatorman: si dudan de nosotros, contacten a g4jc
> [14:49:02] Megver83: yo ya ten?a claro que el servidor era para uds.
> [14:49:10] emulatorman: el servidor no ha llegado aqui aun
> [14:49:45] emulatorman: el beaglebone fue una donacion que pedi a
> parabola que me dieran a mi para poder desarrrollar grub y los kernels
>
> In english:
>
> [13:50:06] Megver83: what do you plan to do with the Parabola hardware
> you have?
> [14:46:33] emulatorman: first, that hardware was donated Luke .R to
> coadde to collaborate in Parabola and in free projects
> [14:47:35] emulatorman: it's different if the donation was to parabola
> and we take care of it
> [14:47:50] emulatorman: then I understand and I return what was not
> donated to us
> [14:48:18] emulatorman: but donations that went to us to collaborate
> on free software projects is different because they are personal donatio
> ns
> [14:48:35] Megver83: Yes, I understand.
> [14:48:41] Megver83: I said for the other donations
> [14:48:41] emulatorman: If you doubt about us, contact g4jc
> [14:49:02] Megver83: I was already clear about the server was for you.
> [14:49:10] emulatorman: the server has not arrived yet
> [14:49:45] emulatorman: the beaglebone was a donation that I asked
> parabola to give me to be able to develop grub and kernels


From quiliro at riseup.net  Thu Apr 20 20:45:01 2017
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quiliro)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:45:01 -0500
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <58F8FA6A.4010605@ceata.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
 <947ccf8b-1ff9-7beb-6926-eecfb93a8040@openmailbox.org>
 <790d9759-f975-9c33-55f8-3e1063db5987@openmailbox.org>
 <58F8E341.8010603@ceata.org> <20170420121518.13209b20@riseup.net>
 <58F8FA6A.4010605@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <20170420154501.69bd8784@riseup.net>

El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:14:02 +0300
Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:

> On 20.04.2017 20:38, Quiliro wrote:
> > El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:35:13 +0300
> > Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:
> >   
> >>>>> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not dwell
> >>>>> on that. There are much more important things to invest our time
> >>>>> in. Or you think that a logo is that important?    
> >>
> >> Please stop deciding what is important and what not. It's
> >> disturbing!  
> > 
> > I have not. That is why I am asking.  
> 
> Really? You weren't insinuating that this is not important enough for
> "your" (plural) time. You want me to believe you were asking out of
> genuine curiosity.
> 
> Please tell me, what exactly are you doing for this project? Are you
> spending time actually doing something "productive" for this project?
> 
> I'm asking because you emphasize a lot the productiveness and you
> appear to be always concerned about not wasting "your" (plural) time
> with petty things.
> 
> If you don't contribute with anything "productive" yet (offering
> external unsolicited and uninformed advice is not something to be
> considered "productive"), you could start. See this application from
> today for an example on how to start:
> 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005066.html
> 
> > You are not the only one that has
> > an opinion. You seem to be disturbed by everyone and everything.  
> 
> It's disturbing to read misguided or malicious people on this mailing
> list. But they are a minority in Parabola, although they are very
> vocal and try to make the community believe that they are a majority
> and that they have legitimacy.
> 
> So no, I'm not disturbed "by everyone and everything". I'm not
> disturbed by Parabola people wanting to find a fiscal sponsor, I
> support that and even found a good candidate. I'm not disturbed with
> Parabola people wanting to maintain packages left unmaintained by
> disturbing people. Nor with Parabola people warning that the wiki has
> been vandalized.
> 
> In few words, I'm only disturbed with people only giving the
> appearance of benevolence, and not doing any "productive" work. Do
> you believe this description applies to you by any chance?
> 
> >> Quiliro, now it'd be the time for you to acknowledge Parabola
> >> hardware _is important_ and needs to be recovered.  
> > 
> > I don't know about the details and I would rather them take the
> > hardware and Ceata take the money than continue with all this
> > competition. I do will collaborate and avoid future confrontation.
> > Please count me out of the unproductive attacks and the penny
> > fighting.  
> 
> It's easy to give up things that are not yours. But the Parabola
> people need to fight for what they have, because they have worked
> very hard to get it. So no, Ceata can't and won't take any money from
> the Parabola fund. And the Parabola hardware needs to be used by
> Parabola people for the advancement of the Parabola project. Not by
> former members for whatever personal projects.

I will not answer any of your questions. I think that my points have
been expressed clearly and will not argue any more. I do not love to
argue or put people against each other. There are many other things I
can do for software freedom.

You are not the boss I have to report to. I ask you not to direct
yourself to me again. If you want, you can talk to others about me. But
I do not want to interact with you ever. It is a toxic relationship for
me. Perhaps you do not share these feelings. If you do, please stop.
You are free to speak. But I will ignore you from now on.

-- 
Example of rude top posting:

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

A: No.
Q: Should I leave quotations after my reply?

Saluton,
Quiliro
0987631031




From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 20:50:04 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:50:04 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Hardware Donations Was: Re: [IMPORTANT] Goodbye Parabola
In-Reply-To: <58F91CD0.6080706@ceata.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org> <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91CD0.6080706@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <618406cd-a0c8-106d-17ab-bfb475bab00b@openmailbox.org>

El 20/04/17 a las 17:40, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic escribi?:
> P.S. Megver83 your e-mail client breaks the links. I don't know if you
> are aware of that.

really? what links? I use Icedove

---
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr 20 20:51:21 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:51:21 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Hardware Donations
In-Reply-To: <618406cd-a0c8-106d-17ab-bfb475bab00b@openmailbox.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org> <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91CD0.6080706@ceata.org>
 <618406cd-a0c8-106d-17ab-bfb475bab00b@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58F91F49.7000207@ceata.org>

On 20.04.2017 23:50, Megver83 wrote:
> El 20/04/17 a las 17:40, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic escribi?:
>> P.S. Megver83 your e-mail client breaks the links. I don't know if you
>> are aware of that.
> 
> really? what links? I use Icedove

https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005077.html

Examples:

>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff
=18507&oldid=18504

>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=15
156&oldid=15155

I fixed them back in my reply:

https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005078.html

Tiberiu


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Apr 20 20:53:50 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:53:50 +0000
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>

Hi guys, let's check the non-monetary donations :)

* 2x BeagleBone Black rev.C

One of them was donated by Robofun through Ceata's sponsorship [0]

Note: Coadde has received 1 Beaglebone only that was donated by Robofun
[0], not 2 since the another one was shipped to another dev a couple of
months ago. I suggest ask about who was the another Beaglebone Black
donor for further details.

* 5x Jumper DuPont wire
* 1x FT232R USB UART device
* 1x USB-miniUSB cable

It was donated by Parabola community to buy it in Robofun for the
Beaglebone donated by Robofun. [0]

* 1x C.H.I.P.
* 1x Dell Latitude 2110
* 1x Netgear WNA1100

It was donated by Luke .R (Gaming4JC) and paid from his own pocket [1],
therefore i suggest you ask him about it.

* 1x 220V-110V converter

It was donated by Parabola community as replacement since my converter
exploded inside FISL17 event. :(

* 1x Kingston 8 GB microSDHC card class 4
* 1x Kingston 16 GB microSDHC card class 4
* 1x AC power adapter 2P 10A
* 1x generic AC/DC adapter model YDH500300A

I don't know about those devices, since it weren't donated for coadde or
me. I suggest ask about who was the donor for further details.

Please, let me know if those hardware devices donated by the community
were donated for Parabola only or was a personal donation to coadde to
help in Parabola.

If it was donated for Parabola only, then i need your help to pay the
shipment fees to ship it for the Parabola's dev decided by you.

Regards and waiting for your response as soon as possible,
Andr?.

[0]:https://www.parabola.nu/news/robofun-sponsors-parabola-arm-port-with-a-bbb-board/
[1]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003912.html

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 20:59:57 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:59:57 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Hardware Donations
In-Reply-To: <58F91F49.7000207@ceata.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org> <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91CD0.6080706@ceata.org>
 <618406cd-a0c8-106d-17ab-bfb475bab00b@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91F49.7000207@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <33bd29e8-48d7-6987-3f7e-1ae5db615e38@openmailbox.org>

oh, I see, yes I was aware from that (it's because of enigmail), I'll be
more careful next time.
Thanks for the advise.

El 20/04/17 a las 17:51, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic escribi?:
> On 20.04.2017 23:50, Megver83 wrote:
>> El 20/04/17 a las 17:40, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic escribi?:
>>> P.S. Megver83 your e-mail client breaks the links. I don't know
>>> if you are aware of that.
>> 
>> really? what links? I use Icedove
> 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005077.html
> 
> Examples:
> 
>>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff
>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
=18507&oldid=18504
> 
>>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&dif
f=15
>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
156&oldid=15155
> 
> I fixed them back in my reply:
> 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/005078.html
> 
> Tiberiu
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From hellekin at gnu.org  Thu Apr 20 21:44:53 2017
From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:44:53 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <15a92733-1398-46a3-0715-d53a53b319b8@gnu.org>

On 04/20/2017 03:39 PM, Quiliro wrote:
> El Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:37:53 +0300
> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> escribi?:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> You can revert the changes coadde has made to the wiki pages in his
>> vandalization efforts before leaving the project and reupload the
>> deleted images from the Web Archive, such as this one:
>>
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20161208020551/https://wiki.parabola.nu/images/3/33/Logotipo_color.png
>>
>> I hope this helps restore the wiki.
> 
> I also think coade should restore the wiki. But lets not dwell on that.
> There are much more important things to invest our time in. Or you
> think that a logo is that important?
> 

More importantly, everybody should stop acting like there's a war going
on, and that there are bad people and good people.  AFAIC I can only see
good people acting like bad people.  The emotional charge in this
situation is very high and venting it pointing fingers is the last thing
we should do.  When I wrote 'brat behavior', I wasn't expecting people
to start shooting at each other, but wanted to pinpoint the immaturity
with which this whole process was mishandled.  I was certainly upset,
because of the hard work many here put into the project and setting up
fiscal sponsorship to facilitate it; yet, for some reason probably
linked to what some mentioned regarding the affect of money, the
communication flow broke.  Let's not make the mistake to crystallize
this frustrated affect into enemy figures.  As Quiliro wrote, there are
better things to do than argue. Also, everyone should make an effort to
understand the shock and sadness of everyone else, and use compassion
rather than accusation as a medium to handle this situation with dignity.

Regards,

==
hk


From nobody at parabola.nu  Thu Apr 20 21:51:49 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:51:49 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [webkit2gtk] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170420215149.1102.64330@proton.parabola.nu>

jm.100best at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:




The user provided the following additional text:

2.16.1



From nobody at parabola.nu  Thu Apr 20 21:53:07 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:53:07 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [webkit2gtk] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170420215307.1102.20626@proton.parabola.nu>

jm.100best at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:




The user provided the following additional text:

2.16.1



From tct at ceata.org  Thu Apr 20 21:58:37 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 00:58:37 +0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>

On 20.04.2017 23:53, Andr? Silva wrote:
> Hi guys, let's check the non-monetary donations :)

I guess we should be thankful that you have decided to show up and
answer to the community for the Parabola hardware still in your possession.

You wanted to leave everything "in order" before you leave, so you
deleted free software repositories, deleted free artwork and vandalized
the wiki of the project, but didn't take the time to arrange for the
shipping of Parabola hardware that you have in your possession.

> * 2x BeagleBone Black rev.C

> 1 not 2 since the another one was shipped to another dev a couple of
> months ago. I suggest ask about who was the another Beaglebone Black
> donor for further details.

You have added yourself this donation to the Parabola wiki:

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18507&oldid=18504

There should be no mystery about it, since it's a public document and
you have declared it as donation. Who has the second BBB? Please
respond. If the donor is not reachable, it doesn't mean a dev gets to
keep it without the community to know about it.

> * 1x C.H.I.P.
> * 1x Dell Latitude 2110
> * 1x Netgear WNA1100
> 
> It was donated by Luke .R (Gaming4JC) and paid from his own pocket

So is any other donation to Parabola. Paid from the donor's pocket. I
fail to see your argument. You need to hand over this Parabola hardware
too. The hardware belongs to Parabola, not Gaming4JC and donations to
non-profit projects are not refundable.

> * 1x 220V-110V converter
> 
> It was donated by Parabola community as replacement since my converter
> exploded inside FISL17 event. :(

Needs to be returned too. It wasn't Parabola hardware that was broken.
It was your personal hardware. It was your choice to use your personal
converter for Parabola.

Don't forget about this adapter:

> * 1x AC power adapter 2P 10A

It's in the GNUcash file marked with FISL17.

> * 1x Kingston 8 GB microSDHC card class 4
> * 1x Kingston 16 GB microSDHC card class 4
> * 1x generic AC/DC adapter model YDH500300A
> 
> I don't know about those devices, since it weren't donated for coadde or
> me. I suggest ask about who was the donor for further details.

I disagree. You have publicly declared this donation on the wiki:

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18507&oldid=18504

You need to tell the community who has the BBB, SD cards and the rest of
accessories. If the donor is not reachable, it doesn't mean you can keep
a secret about this donation *you* have declared.

> i need your help to pay the shipment fees to ship it for the 
> Parabola's dev decided by you.

I'm sure this can be arranged. You need tell us the weight and price
estimation for shipping all the Parabola hardware in your possession.

> Regards and waiting for your response as soon as possible,

Our response has always been prompt. You need not to worry about that.

Tiberiu


From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 22:40:22 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 18:40:22 -0400
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <c85e7155-8fc2-c9c9-ebae-73b9475302d0@openmailbox.org>

On 04/20/2017 05:58 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> * 1x C.H.I.P.
>> * 1x Dell Latitude 2110
>> * 1x Netgear WNA1100
>>
>> It was donated by Luke .R (Gaming4JC) and paid from his own pocket
> So is any other donation to Parabola. Paid from the donor's pocket. I
> fail to see your argument. You need to hand over this Parabola hardware
> too. The hardware belongs to Parabola, not Gaming4JC and donations to
> non-profit projects are not refundable.

Unless Ceata has declared those donations as a tax deduction on their
financial report, they were donated directly to the developer(s) at no
cost to Parabola or Ceata.

So, per a previous e-mail[1], they shouldn't have ever been placed on
the wiki to begin with. The CHIP was (probably still is) broken and
needed serious repair, the other two pieces of hardware were previously
used. I don't think they are worth our time fighting over at this point.

1. https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004983.html


From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de  Thu Apr 20 23:20:26 2017
From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (pelzflorian (Florian Pelz))
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 01:20:26 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Line wrapping (was Re:  Hardware Donations)
In-Reply-To: <33bd29e8-48d7-6987-3f7e-1ae5db615e38@openmailbox.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org> <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91CD0.6080706@ceata.org>
 <618406cd-a0c8-106d-17ab-bfb475bab00b@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91F49.7000207@ceata.org>
 <33bd29e8-48d7-6987-3f7e-1ae5db615e38@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <fbb151e0-6a0b-892f-0c8a-1d0d38c3bce8@pelzflorian.de>

On 04/20/2017 10:59 PM, Megver83 wrote:
> oh, I see, yes I was aware from that (it's because of enigmail), I'll be
> more careful next time.
> Thanks for the advise.
> 

I don?t know if you mean it?s because of Enigmail or because of
Icedove?s plain text mode, but either way, have you tried Icedove?s
?Paste as Quotation? feature to prevent line wrapping?

Regards,
Florian


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 23:25:40 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:25:40 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Line wrapping (was Re: Hardware Donations)
In-Reply-To: <fbb151e0-6a0b-892f-0c8a-1d0d38c3bce8@pelzflorian.de>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org> <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91CD0.6080706@ceata.org>
 <618406cd-a0c8-106d-17ab-bfb475bab00b@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91F49.7000207@ceata.org>
 <33bd29e8-48d7-6987-3f7e-1ae5db615e38@openmailbox.org>
 <fbb151e0-6a0b-892f-0c8a-1d0d38c3bce8@pelzflorian.de>
Message-ID: <141e381c-4698-299f-eaee-b23a6de55305@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

what do you mean with "Paste as Quotation"? I've it in spanish, but
doesn't sound familiar to me.

El 20/04/17 a las 20:20, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) escribi?:
> On 04/20/2017 10:59 PM, Megver83 wrote:
>> oh, I see, yes I was aware from that (it's because of enigmail),
>> I'll be more careful next time. Thanks for the advise.
>> 
> 
> I don?t know if you mean it?s because of Enigmail or because of 
> Icedove?s plain text mode, but either way, have you tried
> Icedove?s ?Paste as Quotation? feature to prevent line wrapping?
> 
> Regards, Florian _______________________________________________ 
> Dev mailing list Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Apr 20 23:29:50 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:29:50 +0000
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <4c62a6c9-1701-7029-9036-0864889bb9db@riseup.net>

On 04/20/2017 08:53 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> * 1x AC power adapter 2P 10A

Guys, it was donated by Parabola community for FISL17, since i found it
right now here, it costed BRL 6.95 what are around EUR 2.07 [0], see in
the gnucash file for further details [1].

The "2P" means that it are 2 AC power adapters that supports until 10A
[2]. :(

[0]:http://coinmill.com/BRL_EUR.html?BRL=6.95
[1]:https://repomirror.parabola.nu/other/parabola-accounting/monetary-donations/20170111/parabola.gnucash
[2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampere

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Apr 20 23:33:38 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:33:38 +0000
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <4c62a6c9-1701-7029-9036-0864889bb9db@riseup.net>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <4c62a6c9-1701-7029-9036-0864889bb9db@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <e1f7a120-63c2-a4c4-ce83-8207b153a9e8@riseup.net>

On 04/20/2017 11:29 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> The "2P" means that it are 2 AC power adapters that supports until 10A
> [2]. :(

s|:(|sorry for the misunderstand :(|

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 00:02:58 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:02:58 -0300
Subject: [Dev] My SSH key is untrusted?
Message-ID: <1e956a32-a402-f65b-9c0f-5859d8fa23ff@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi, when I try to run git to update the repositories in Parabola, I
get the following:

$ git push
Permission denied (publickey).
fatal: Could not read from remote repository.

Please make sure you have the correct access rights
and the repository exists.

What is it?

Regards,
Megver83
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From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Fri Apr 21 01:15:09 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:15:09 -0500
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>

Megver83 requested on irc that somebody else made the list.

this one contains all the split packages in Parabola-only repos
(e.g. libre, nonprism, pcr) except for mips64el ones. some packages
are repeated because they are built by different people for different
architectures, so this is rather a list of unique packager+pkgname
combinations.

numbers may look more daunting than they really are because of the
base-package/split-package distinction, but they should give us a
sense of the proportion of work that needs to be done.

    $ cut -d ' ' -f 1,2 packagers.txt | sort | uniq -c | sort -n

          1 Jorge Lopez
          2 Drtan Samos
          2 Guest One
          3 Micha? Mas?owski
          3 Unknown Packager
          5 Jorge Araya
          6 Charles Roth
          8 aurelien DESBRIERES
         11 Esteban Carnevale
         15 Aur?lien Desbri?res
         22 Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
         33 David P.
         40 Aurelien DESBRIERES
         41 Nicol?s Reynolds
         64 Luke R.
         84 Luke Shumaker
        129 M?rcio Silva
        238 Isaac David
        495 Omar Vega
        807 Andr? Silva

also, don't forget to factor in other tasks like maintaining the ISOs

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943
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From ovruni at gnu.org.pe  Fri Apr 21 02:24:03 2017
From: ovruni at gnu.org.pe (Omar Vega Ramos)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:24:03 -0500
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <43bd87a9-f392-e937-88b7-1ab3977d256c@gnu.org.pe>


>> I don't know about those devices, since it weren't donated for coadde or
>> me. I suggest ask about who was the donor for further details.
> 
> I disagree. You have publicly declared this donation on the wiki:
> 
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18507&oldid=18504
> 
> You need to tell the community who has the BBB, SD cards and the rest of
> accessories. If the donor is not reachable, it doesn't mean you can keep
> a secret about this donation *you* have declared.

I have donations from Ebrasca. Stop releasing your poison to Emulatorman
by these accessories.

-- 
Omar Vega Ramos
GPG ID: 6D5DBA58


From encycl at parlementum.red  Fri Apr 21 02:42:48 2017
From: encycl at parlementum.red (Charles Roth)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:42:48 -0700
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
Message-ID: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>

I don't know if my credentials are still on the server. 

Please advise,
Encyclomundi 

From nobody at parabola.nu  Fri Apr 21 04:19:12 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 04:19:12 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [eudev] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170421041912.1103.58560@proton.parabola.nu>

mittens2001 at opmbx.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* eudev 3.2-4 [pcr] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/armv7h/eudev/
* eudev 3.2.1-3 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/eudev/
* eudev 3.2.1-3 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/eudev/
* libeudev 3.2-4 [pcr] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/armv7h/libeudev/
* libeudev 3.2.1-3 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/libeudev/
* libeudev 3.2.1-3 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/libeudev/


The user provided the following additional text:

eudev 3.2.2



From hellekin at gnu.org  Fri Apr 21 04:59:29 2017
From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 06:59:29 +0200
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <a69a8910-27da-1dbd-f8cc-b5f9ae9e6f43@gnu.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 04/20/2017 11:58 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> On 20.04.2017 23:53, Andr? Silva wrote:
>> Hi guys, let's check the non-monetary donations :)
> 
> I guess we should be thankful that you have decided
> to show up and answer to the community for the Parabola
> hardware still in your possession.
> 

Tiberiu, you should really stop being confrontational and accusatory.

Many people on this list know Andr? personally and know he's kind and
honest.  You only know half the story and project whatever frustration
on him and his family without even trying to understand their
perspective.  This is not very kind of you to reduce Andr? and coadde's
participation in the project to accounting elements.  Without them the
project is much less than it was, and this is a tragedy.  But I can
understand why they would step off the project since they have other
things to worry about than fighting their brothers.  In acting like you
are, you're showing a deep misunderstanding of the Parabola community.
Please practice restraint and compassion next time you post.

Regards,

==
hk

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From hellekin at gnu.org  Fri Apr 21 05:29:19 2017
From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:29:19 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Clarifications for the artwork that were temporarily
 removed in Parabola
In-Reply-To: <60be3aa4-68c3-1bfe-5047-912d04b2605f@riseup.net>
References: <60be3aa4-68c3-1bfe-5047-912d04b2605f@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <e57d6759-b8d8-0f0e-f2c5-d507e7fed6c7@gnu.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 04/20/2017 07:38 PM, Crazytoon wrote:
> 
> Without further ado, we apologize for misunderstandings.
> 

Thank you Crazytoon for this much needed clarification.  I never doubted
your intentions.  The work you've been making on GNU & Bola can be a
great asset to promote software freedom, and we can't be thankful enough
to match the dedication you and your team brought to that project over
the years.

<3

==
hk

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From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 06:29:35 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:29:35 +0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <4c62a6c9-1701-7029-9036-0864889bb9db@riseup.net>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <4c62a6c9-1701-7029-9036-0864889bb9db@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58F9A6CF.2070600@ceata.org>

On 21.04.2017 02:29, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 04/20/2017 08:53 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
>> * 1x AC power adapter 2P 10A
> 
> Guys, it was donated by Parabola community for FISL17, since i found it
> right now here, 

I'm glad that you found it. Needs to be returned to Parabola.

> it costed BRL 6.95 what are around EUR 2.07 [0], see in
> the gnucash file for further details [1].
> 
> The "2P" means that it are 2 AC power adapters that supports until 10A
> [2]. :(

Your point being...

Tiberiu


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 06:36:53 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:36:53 +0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <a69a8910-27da-1dbd-f8cc-b5f9ae9e6f43@gnu.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org> <a69a8910-27da-1dbd-f8cc-b5f9ae9e6f43@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <58F9A885.2080903@ceata.org>

On 21.04.2017 07:59, hellekin wrote:
> Tiberiu, you should really stop being confrontational and accusatory.

Bare with me until June 5th. I'm done giving the benefit of the doubt to
people acting maliciously and trying very hard to damage my and my
organization reputation, and also rendering the Parabola websites with a
lot of dead links (for some lame excuse that they wanted to make the
artwork "better" so they deleted it).

If I weren't to insist on them returning Parabola hardware, we wouldn't
be having this discussion now.

Tiberiu


From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de  Fri Apr 21 06:43:39 2017
From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (pelzflorian (Florian Pelz))
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:43:39 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Line wrapping (was Re: Hardware Donations)
In-Reply-To: <141e381c-4698-299f-eaee-b23a6de55305@openmailbox.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org> <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91CD0.6080706@ceata.org>
 <618406cd-a0c8-106d-17ab-bfb475bab00b@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91F49.7000207@ceata.org>
 <33bd29e8-48d7-6987-3f7e-1ae5db615e38@openmailbox.org>
 <fbb151e0-6a0b-892f-0c8a-1d0d38c3bce8@pelzflorian.de>
 <141e381c-4698-299f-eaee-b23a6de55305@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <0a9b14ef-8a9d-90da-d4a7-8a91550c4d8a@pelzflorian.de>

On 04/21/2017 01:25 AM, Megver83 wrote:
> what do you mean with "Paste as Quotation"? I've it in spanish, but
> doesn't sound familiar to me.
> 

Judging from
https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-mozilla/icedove.git/tree/icedove-l10n/es-ES/chrome/es-ES/locale/es-ES/messenger/messengercompose/messengercompose.dtd
it is ?Pegar como cita? in Spanish. What I mean is that when composing a
mail, in the edit submenu, there is an option to paste as quotation
which I use for formatting links without line wrapping.


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 06:47:42 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:47:42 +0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <c85e7155-8fc2-c9c9-ebae-73b9475302d0@openmailbox.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
 <c85e7155-8fc2-c9c9-ebae-73b9475302d0@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <58F9AB0E.6040705@ceata.org>

On 21.04.2017 01:40, Luke wrote:
> On 04/20/2017 05:58 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>>> * 1x C.H.I.P.
>>> * 1x Dell Latitude 2110
>>> * 1x Netgear WNA1100
>>>
>>> It was donated by Luke .R (Gaming4JC) and paid from his own pocket
>> So is any other donation to Parabola. Paid from the donor's pocket. I
>> fail to see your argument. You need to hand over this Parabola hardware
>> too. The hardware belongs to Parabola, not Gaming4JC and donations to
>> non-profit projects are not refundable.
> 
> Unless Ceata has declared those donations as a tax deduction on their
> financial report, they were donated directly to the developer(s) at no
> cost to Parabola or Ceata.

For Ceata to declare in-kind donations, there needs to be a sponsorship
contract signed between the sponsor and Ceata. Nobody came forward to us
with this and some other donations to handle them properly. Instead,
things popped out on the wiki. There are also monetary donations on the
wiki that (at least) Ceata knows nothing about.

> So, per a previous e-mail[1], they shouldn't have ever been placed on
> the wiki to begin with. The CHIP was (probably still is) broken and
> needed serious repair, the other two pieces of hardware were previously
> used. I don't think they are worth our time fighting over at this point.
> 
> 1. https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-April/004983.html

However, these in-kind donations have "been placed on the wiki" and
declared as donations to Parabola in a Parabola public document. So the
hardware needs to be returned to Parabola, since the recipients have
resigned from the project.

Tiberiu


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 06:59:05 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:59:05 +0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <43bd87a9-f392-e937-88b7-1ab3977d256c@gnu.org.pe>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
 <43bd87a9-f392-e937-88b7-1ab3977d256c@gnu.org.pe>
Message-ID: <58F9ADB9.3010805@ceata.org>

On 21.04.2017 05:24, Omar Vega Ramos wrote:
>>> >> I don't know about those devices, since it weren't donated for coadde or
>>> >> me. I suggest ask about who was the donor for further details.
>> > 
>> > I disagree. You have publicly declared this donation on the wiki:
>> > 
>> > https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18507&oldid=18504
>> > 
>> > You need to tell the community who has the BBB, SD cards and the rest of
>> > accessories. If the donor is not reachable, it doesn't mean you can keep
>> > a secret about this donation *you* have declared.

> I have donations from Ebrasca.

It needs to be noted down on the wiki that this Parabola hardware is
currently in Omar's possession.

Omar, please feel free to tell the community how are you using this
hardware for Parabola. It's important to have transparency and
accountability in a project like Parabola. I'm sure you agree.

Thanks,
Tiberiu


From andreas at grapentin.org  Fri Apr 21 07:19:51 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:19:51 +0200
Subject: [Dev] I want to become a parabola hacker!
In-Reply-To: <d0768461-b0c9-d381-39e4-aca352648c78@openmailbox.org>
References: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
 <d0768461-b0c9-d381-39e4-aca352648c78@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170421071951.GA10616@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


Hi,

please find attached a profile and a (somewhat) recent, if slightly
derpy picture of my face.

as for which role to take - I think it might make sense to start with
something simpler, until I learn the ropes. I'm open to suggestions
here, since you probably know better than me where the fires need to be
put out first, but I was thinking along the lines of starting to
maintain a couple of -libre packages and then later starting to do some
work on libretools / packaging infrastructure things.

Does that sound reasonable?

Best,
Andreas

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 02:15:47PM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
> Excellent! these are good news. Which rols to you want to take? or you
> prefer us to choose it for you?
> 
> Then send us your ssh key and sign, and optionally a profile of you
> and a photo, see this example[0]
> 
> Regards,
> Megver83
> 
> [0]
> https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/plain/users/1036.yml?id=2b0612a4d5f5
> 268c55e258a41cc84d153226ec72
> 
> El 20/04/17 a las 14:05, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> > 
> > Hi everyone,
> > 
> > I would like to step in and volunteer to become a parabola hacker, 
> > and help maintain infrastructure and packages. I think it's time 
> > for me to step in and do some actual work for the project :)
> > 
> > Some info on me to back up my application:
> > 
> > - you might know me as 'oaken-source' from IRC - I donated and 
> > maintain mirror.grapentin.org, the (currently only) german
> > parabola mirror - before migrating to parabola, I have been using
> > arch for longer than I can remember; I maintain a couple of desktop
> > parabola installs now, as well as 2 dedicated servers running
> > parabola - I maintain a private parabola package repo for
> > miscellaneous stuff, and have some experience with writing
> > PKGBUILDs, building packages from source, and using libretools - I
> > have tons of experience in writing C / python / bash code, and to a
> > slightly lesser extent in many other programming languages - I have
> > a M.Sc. in Software Engineering from the University of Potsdam,
> > mainly focused on system software and operating systems - I am
> > currently doing my PhD in operating systems and middleware at the
> > same university - this is my github profile (slightly out of date;
> > I only just recently adopted the FSF endorsed terminology, some
> > projects might sill say "open source" all over them):
> > https://github.com/oaken-source/ - I strongly dislike ruby and
> > perl.
> > 
> > I hope you will allow me to make myself useful :)
> > 
> > Best, Andreas
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> > Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> > 
> 
> -- 
> SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
> XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
> Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
> Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
> GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
> GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
> Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 07:21:27 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 10:21:27 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
Message-ID: <58F9B2F7.500@ceata.org>

Hello Emulatorman,

Please explain these donations to Parabola you have declared publicly on
the wiki:

2017-04-10 	anon_nor 	CHF 	220.69
2017-03-30 	anon_nor 	CHF 	220.21
2017-03-23 	anon_nor 	CHF 	116.77
2017-03-02 	anon_nor 	EUR 	112.24

TOTAL CHF	anon_nor	CHF 	557.67
TOTAL EUR	anon_nor	EUR	112.24

https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18502&oldid=18283
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18628&oldid=18507
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18643&oldid=18629
https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18783&oldid=18715

Ceata hasn't received them, so (at least) I know nothing about them.
This is why they are not in the GNUcash file.

There is no need to publicly uncover the identity of the donor, but you
need to tell us who has these donations to Parabola or, if these
donations have been spent, what they have been spent on.

Tiberiu


From aurelien at hackers.camp  Fri Apr 21 07:43:29 2017
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:43:29 +0200
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
In-Reply-To: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
 (Charles Roth's message of "Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:42:48 -0700")
References: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <87lgqunr32.fsf@hackers.camp>

Charles Roth <encycl at parlementum.red> writes:

> I don't know if my credentials are still on the server. 
>
> Please advise,
> Encyclomundi 

My friend!

It should be fine that you (or someone else) put your profile in the
hackers list ... you are with us from years and years and do not
understand why your profile is not here or not anymore.

Thanks!

--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES


From encycl at parlementum.red  Fri Apr 21 08:25:50 2017
From: encycl at parlementum.red (Charles Roth)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 01:25:50 -0700
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
In-Reply-To: <87lgqunr32.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
 <87lgqunr32.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <082be29c-f4cc-bcf9-7bc8-65fe2c843c01@parlementum.red>

Merci, mon ami.


I meant my ssh pubkey and gpg pubkey on the server.



On 04/21/2017 12:43 AM, aurelien wrote:
> Charles Roth <encycl at parlementum.red> writes:
>
>> I don't know if my credentials are still on the server. 
>>
>> Please advise,
>> Encyclomundi 
> My friend!
>
> It should be fine that you (or someone else) put your profile in the
> hackers list ... you are with us from years and years and do not
> understand why your profile is not here or not anymore.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Aur?lien DESBRI?RES

-- 
Charles Roth, MPC
Cultural Detective, Curious Antiquary, Noted Pedestrian, Amateur 
Lexicographer & Voracious Reader.

Primary email: encycl at parlementum.red
My Library: https://www.librarycat.org/lib/encycl
GPG Key: http://keybase.io/encycl
Protect your email: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/
"La mort fromage--quel dommage!"


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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 21 13:10:39 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 10:10:39 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Line wrapping (was Re: Hardware Donations)
In-Reply-To: <0a9b14ef-8a9d-90da-d4a7-8a91550c4d8a@pelzflorian.de>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <58F6F6A5.40704@ceata.org> <87y3uux425.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <59880d28-d202-7a6d-393e-ea09c25ee05c@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91CD0.6080706@ceata.org>
 <618406cd-a0c8-106d-17ab-bfb475bab00b@openmailbox.org>
 <58F91F49.7000207@ceata.org>
 <33bd29e8-48d7-6987-3f7e-1ae5db615e38@openmailbox.org>
 <fbb151e0-6a0b-892f-0c8a-1d0d38c3bce8@pelzflorian.de>
 <141e381c-4698-299f-eaee-b23a6de55305@openmailbox.org>
 <0a9b14ef-8a9d-90da-d4a7-8a91550c4d8a@pelzflorian.de>
Message-ID: <87pog5x5ww.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

"pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de> writes:

> On 04/21/2017 01:25 AM, Megver83 wrote:
>> what do you mean with "Paste as Quotation"? I've it in spanish, but
>> doesn't sound familiar to me.

just enable pgp/mime and enigmail won't break the text

-- 
 D
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 21 13:30:20 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 10:30:20 -0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <58F9A885.2080903@ceata.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org> <a69a8910-27da-1dbd-f8cc-b5f9ae9e6f43@gnu.org>
 <58F9A885.2080903@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <87mvb9x503.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:

> On 21.04.2017 07:59, hellekin wrote:
>> Tiberiu, you should really stop being confrontational and accusatory.
>
> Bare with me until June 5th. I'm done giving the benefit of the doubt to
> people acting maliciously and trying very hard to damage my and my
> organization reputation, and also rendering the Parabola websites with a
> lot of dead links (for some lame excuse that they wanted to make the
> artwork "better" so they deleted it).
>
> If I weren't to insist on them returning Parabola hardware, we wouldn't
> be having this discussion now.

i agree with hellekin, it's tiresome for everyone still here :) i just
want it to get over with.  i noticed when you're angry everyone starts
to get pissed at you instead of hearing what you have to say (and others
on a calmer tone get their opportunity to get their message across ;)

IMO emulatorman can keep the ac converter and the other replacement
stuff if he's still using it.  we can consider it a very little in-kind
donation for his work (which we should've distributed before, but that's
another discussion).

the hardware that was being used to maintain the arm port is still
useful to keep working on it and it was donated to parabola, so we'd
like it back, correct?  we can pay the shipment since it's ours.

if it's to me, i won't use it since i don't work on the arm port, so
maybe we can send it directly to the arm port hackers, or other hacker
that wants to work on the arm port and couldn't because of missing
hardware?  otherwise we'll have to pay two shipments.

do you all think this is correct?  can we work from here?

-- 
.o?)
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From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 13:32:41 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:32:41 +0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <87mvb9x503.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org> <a69a8910-27da-1dbd-f8cc-b5f9ae9e6f43@gnu.org>
 <58F9A885.2080903@ceata.org> <87mvb9x503.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <58FA09F9.5070107@ceata.org>

On 21.04.2017 16:30, fauno wrote:
> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
> 
>> On 21.04.2017 07:59, hellekin wrote:
>>> Tiberiu, you should really stop being confrontational and accusatory.
>>
>> Bare with me until June 5th. I'm done giving the benefit of the doubt to
>> people acting maliciously and trying very hard to damage my and my
>> organization reputation, and also rendering the Parabola websites with a
>> lot of dead links (for some lame excuse that they wanted to make the
>> artwork "better" so they deleted it).
>>
>> If I weren't to insist on them returning Parabola hardware, we wouldn't
>> be having this discussion now.
> 
> i agree with hellekin, it's tiresome for everyone still here :) i just
> want it to get over with.  i noticed when you're angry everyone starts
> to get pissed at you instead of hearing what you have to say (and others
> on a calmer tone get their opportunity to get their message across ;)
> 
> IMO emulatorman can keep the ac converter and the other replacement
> stuff if he's still using it.  we can consider it a very little in-kind
> donation for his work (which we should've distributed before, but that's
> another discussion).
> 
> the hardware that was being used to maintain the arm port is still
> useful to keep working on it and it was donated to parabola, so we'd
> like it back, correct?  we can pay the shipment since it's ours.
> 
> if it's to me, i won't use it since i don't work on the arm port, so
> maybe we can send it directly to the arm port hackers, or other hacker
> that wants to work on the arm port and couldn't because of missing
> hardware?  otherwise we'll have to pay two shipments.
> 
> do you all think this is correct?  can we work from here?

Your (plural) call.

Tiberiu


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 13:34:37 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:34:37 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <58F9B2F7.500@ceata.org>
References: <58F9B2F7.500@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <58FA0A6D.20708@ceata.org>

On 21.04.2017 10:21, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> Hello Emulatorman,
> 
> Please explain these donations to Parabola you have declared publicly on
> the wiki:
> 
> 2017-04-10 	anon_nor 	CHF 	220.69
> 2017-03-30 	anon_nor 	CHF 	220.21
> 2017-03-23 	anon_nor 	CHF 	116.77
> 2017-03-02 	anon_nor 	EUR 	112.24
> 
> TOTAL CHF	anon_nor	CHF 	557.67
> TOTAL EUR	anon_nor	EUR	112.24
> 
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18502&oldid=18283
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18628&oldid=18507
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18643&oldid=18629
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18783&oldid=18715
> 
> Ceata hasn't received them, so (at least) I know nothing about them.
> This is why they are not in the GNUcash file.
> 
> There is no need to publicly uncover the identity of the donor, but you
> need to tell us who has these donations to Parabola or, if these
> donations have been spent, what they have been spent on.

fauno, do you know anything about these donations?

Tiberiu


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 13:38:15 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:38:15 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
Message-ID: <0501b6e4-f15b-31b6-fb12-20fd76515d10@riseup.net>

Hi guys,

Those donations were made by a donor (anon_nor) as private ones for my
family's basic needs, then i could continue contribute fulltime in
Parabola, since i don't have job.

I asked fauno some time ago (in #parabola channel) if i could add my
private donations that helped contribute in Parabola as acknowledgement
for him and fauno suggested me add them as "personal donation" in the
commits, see revision history of Donations for further details [0].

I also wish to thank to anon_nor for his private donations to help my
family and fauno for give me the chance to add those private donations
at the Donation page as acknowledgement for anon_nor to helping my
family's basic needs to continue contribute in Parabola fulltime.

Thanks very much guys for all helping!

Regards,
Andr?.

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&action=history

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 21 13:51:34 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 10:51:34 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info> writes:

> Megver83 requested on irc that somebody else made the list.

thanks!

> this one contains all the split packages in Parabola-only repos
> (e.g. libre, nonprism, pcr) except for mips64el ones. some packages
> are repeated because they are built by different people for different
> architectures, so this is rather a list of unique packager+pkgname
> combinations.
>
> numbers may look more daunting than they really are because of the
> base-package/split-package distinction, but they should give us a
> sense of the proportion of work that needs to be done.
>
>     $ cut -d ' ' -f 1,2 packagers.txt | sort | uniq -c | sort -n
>
>           1 Jorge Lopez
>           2 Drtan Samos
>           2 Guest One

this guy hasn't been around for ages.  we asked him to leave because of
his constant sexist remarks on the irc channel (and that's why we have
an irc policy)

>           3 Micha? Mas?owski
>           3 Unknown Packager

wtf, i guess someone forgot to configure makepkg.conf :P

Unknown Packager libre/uboot-tools
Unknown Packager libre/vboot-utils
Unknown Packager pcr/quackle

>           5 Jorge Araya
>           6 Charles Roth
>           8 aurelien DESBRIERES
>          11 Esteban Carnevale
>          15 Aur?lien Desbri?res
>          22 Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
>          33 David P.
>          40 Aurelien DESBRIERES
>          41 Nicol?s Reynolds
>          64 Luke R.
>          84 Luke Shumaker
>         129 M?rcio Silva
>         238 Isaac David
>         495 Omar Vega
>         807 Andr? Silva
>
> also, don't forget to factor in other tasks like maintaining the ISOs

do we need to maintain so many kernels?  are people using them?  i think
we need to give priority to stuff in [libre] anyway, which is a lot to
start D:

i put them all here:

https://pad.kefir.red/p/ParabolaPackages

i put my name on the ones i can maintain

-- 
P)
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From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 13:51:57 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:51:57 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <0501b6e4-f15b-31b6-fb12-20fd76515d10@riseup.net>
References: <0501b6e4-f15b-31b6-fb12-20fd76515d10@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58FA0E7D.6000407@ceata.org>

On 21.04.2017 16:38, Andr? Silva wrote:
> Those donations were made by a donor (anon_nor) as private ones for my
> family's basic needs, then i could continue contribute fulltime in
> Parabola, since i don't have job.
> 
> I asked fauno some time ago (in #parabola channel) if i could add my
> private donations that helped contribute in Parabola as acknowledgement
> for him and fauno suggested me add them as "personal donation" in the
> commits, see revision history of Donations for further details [0].

IMO, the common Parabola fund, shared by all its devs should be clearly
separated (in a different section) from the acknowledgements of
donations made directly to some of the devs.

It's not visible enough mentioning in the commit comment that it's not a
donation for all.

And the term "personal donation" is not clear enough either. It can be
interpreted as donation for all (Parabola) in someone's own name and not
in the name of a donor organization she/he is affiliated with.

> I also wish to thank to anon_nor for his private donations to help my
> family and fauno for give me the chance to add those private donations
> at the Donation page as acknowledgement for anon_nor to helping my
> family's basic needs to continue contribute in Parabola fulltime.



From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 14:01:34 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 11:01:34 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <8317a8c9-d64d-978b-8dbc-3c5b53beeda7@openmailbox.org>

El 20/04/17 a las 22:15, Isaac David escribi?:
> Megver83 requested on irc that somebody else made the list.
> 
> this one contains all the split packages in Parabola-only repos
> (e.g. libre, nonprism, pcr) except for mips64el ones. some packages
> are repeated because they are built by different people for different
> architectures, so this is rather a list of unique packager+pkgname
> combinations.
> 
> numbers may look more daunting than they really are because of the
> base-package/split-package distinction, but they should give us a
> sense of the proportion of work that needs to be done.
> 
>    $ cut -d ' ' -f 1,2 packagers.txt | sort | uniq -c | sort -n
> 
>          1 Jorge Lopez
>          2 Drtan Samos
>          2 Guest One
>          3 Micha? Mas?owski
>          3 Unknown Packager
>          5 Jorge Araya
>          6 Charles Roth
>          8 aurelien DESBRIERES
>         11 Esteban Carnevale
>         15 Aur?lien Desbri?res
>         22 Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
>         33 David P.
>         40 Aurelien DESBRIERES
>         41 Nicol?s Reynolds
>         64 Luke R.
>         84 Luke Shumaker
>        129 M?rcio Silva
>        238 Isaac David
>        495 Omar Vega
>        807 Andr? Silva
> 
> also, don't forget to factor in other tasks like maintaining the ISOs

Emulatorman told me some time ago that Jorginho maintains the ISOs, do
you know which other tasks did the fellows maintained? I remember that
Coadde, Emulatorman & Jorginho maintained the Parabola Gaming Project,
but don't know about other projects.

> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From coadde at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 14:07:10 2017
From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:07:10 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Emulatorman's personal repos
Message-ID: <ce3d58c9-a861-932e-5d9c-56d33dc5c48a@riseup.net>

Hi guys,

I'm sending here the Emulatorman's personal repos for Parabola [0][1][2][3]

[0]: https://github.com/coadde/iceape
[1]: https://github.com/coadde/icedove
[2]: https://github.com/coadde/iceweasel
[3]: https://github.com/coadde/linux-libre-pck

I'll send you the fixed artworks soon, i let you know when it is ready.

Cheers!

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 14:25:36 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:25:36 +0000
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
Message-ID: <50cc03d4-f752-f22b-8c64-ed76240a1a97@riseup.net>

Hi fauno, thanks for the ac converter and the other replacement stuff as
donation from Parabola to us, and thanks Gaming4JC for your personal
donations too. :)

Since the hardware that was being used to maintain the arm port is still
very useful for Parabola, the following ones are:

* 1x BeagleBone Black rev.C
* 5x Jumper DuPont wire
* 1x FT232R USB UART device
* 1x USB-miniUSB cable

Let me know if it is ok and the address to send it to the arm port
hackers, or other hacker that wants to work on the arm port. I let you
know about the shipping costs.

Regards,
Andr?.

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 15:20:02 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 15:20:02 +0000
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <50cc03d4-f752-f22b-8c64-ed76240a1a97@riseup.net>
References: <50cc03d4-f752-f22b-8c64-ed76240a1a97@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <f10288f5-d9d4-04b2-9b23-d71dd8d5c76b@riseup.net>

On 04/21/2017 02:25 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> Hi fauno, thanks for the ac converter and the other replacement stuff as
> donation from Parabola to us, and thanks Gaming4JC for your personal
> donations too. :)
> 
> Since the hardware that was being used to maintain the arm port is still
> very useful for Parabola, the following ones are:
> 
> * 1x BeagleBone Black rev.C
> * 5x Jumper DuPont wire
> * 1x FT232R USB UART device
> * 1x USB-miniUSB cable
> 
> Let me know if it is ok and the address to send it to the arm port
> hackers, or other hacker that wants to work on the arm port. I let you
> know about the shipping costs.
> 
> Regards,
> Andr?.

I've found the shipping rates to you check it [0], i suggest you read
from the page 6 that is "VENTANILLA INTERNACIONALES / NO DOCUMENTOS
MERCADER?A". From there, you can check what's the best option/country
for you.

Note: Shipping rates are in UYU, so i suggest use Coinmill [1] as
currency convertor. If there is a free software currency convertor,
please let me know. :)

Regards,
Andr?.

[0]:http://www.correo.com.uy/otrosdocumentos/pdf/tarifas/CorreoUruguayo_Tarifas_Ventanillas.pdf
[1]:http://coinmill.com/

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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 21 15:46:00 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 11:46:00 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <874lxh69xj.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:51:34 -0400,
fauno wrote:
> Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info> writes:
> >           2 Guest One
> 
> this guy hasn't been around for ages.  we asked him to leave because of
> his constant sexist remarks on the irc channel (and that's why we have
> an irc policy)

There are issues with removed packages not actually getting removed.
I suspect that's what's up.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 16:04:44 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:04:44 -0300
Subject: [Dev] My SSH key is untrusted?
In-Reply-To: <1e956a32-a402-f65b-9c0f-5859d8fa23ff@openmailbox.org>
References: <1e956a32-a402-f65b-9c0f-5859d8fa23ff@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <0794c665-dfd8-b8af-5137-bc25c2651a4a@openmailbox.org>

Hi lukeshu, can you (or someone with access to the SSH server) verify
if I'm in the ~/.ssh/autorized_keys file? I don't know why I'm getting
this error:

$ ssh -vvv repo at repo.parabola.nu
OpenSSH_7.4p1, OpenSSL 1.0.2k  26 Jan 2017
debug1: Reading configuration data /home/megver83/.ssh/config
debug1: /home/megver83/.ssh/config line 6: Applying options for
repo.parabola.nu
debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config
debug2: resolving "repo.parabola.nu" port 1863
debug2: ssh_connect_direct: needpriv 0
debug1: Connecting to repo.parabola.nu [93.95.226.249] port 1863.
debug1: Connection established.
debug1: identity file /home/megver83/.ssh/id_rsa type 1
debug1: key_load_public: No such file or directory
debug1: identity file /home/megver83/.ssh/id_rsa-cert type -1
debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0
debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_7.4
debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version OpenSSH_7.4
debug1: match: OpenSSH_7.4 pat OpenSSH* compat 0x04000000
debug2: fd 3 setting O_NONBLOCK
debug1: Authenticating to repo.parabola.nu:1863 as 'repo'
debug3: put_host_port: [repo.parabola.nu]:1863
debug3: hostkeys_foreach: reading file "/home/megver83/.ssh/known_hosts"
debug3: record_hostkey: found key type ECDSA in file
/home/megver83/.ssh/known_hosts:1
debug3: load_hostkeys: loaded 1 keys from [repo.parabola.nu]:1863
debug3: order_hostkeyalgs: prefer hostkeyalgs:
ecdsa-sha2-nistp256-cert-v01 at openssh.com,ecdsa-sha2-nistp384-cert-v01 at openssh.com,ecdsa-sha2-nistp521-cert-v01 at openssh.com,ecdsa-sha2-nistp256,ecdsa-sha2-nistp384,ecdsa-sha2-nistp521
debug3: send packet: type 20
debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent
debug3: receive packet: type 20
debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received
debug2: local client KEXINIT proposal
debug2: KEX algorithms:
curve25519-sha256,curve25519-sha256 at libssh.org,ecdh-sha2-nistp256,ecdh-sha2-nistp384,ecdh-sha2-nistp521,diffie-hellman-group-exchange-sha256,diffie-hellman-group16-sha512,diffie-hellman-group18-sha512,diffie-hellman-group-exchange-sha1,diffie-hellman-group14-sha256,diffie-hellman-group14-sha1,ext-info-c
debug2: host key algorithms:
ecdsa-sha2-nistp256-cert-v01 at openssh.com,ecdsa-sha2-nistp384-cert-v01 at openssh.com,ecdsa-sha2-nistp521-cert-v01 at openssh.com,ecdsa-sha2-nistp256,ecdsa-sha2-nistp384,ecdsa-sha2-nistp521,ssh-ed25519-cert-v01 at openssh.com,ssh-rsa-cert-v01 at openssh.com,ssh-ed25519,rsa-sha2-512,rsa-sha2-256,ssh-rsa
debug2: ciphers ctos:
chacha20-poly1305 at openssh.com,aes128-ctr,aes192-ctr,aes256-ctr,aes128-gcm at openssh.com,aes256-gcm at openssh.com,aes128-cbc,aes192-cbc,aes256-cbc
debug2: ciphers stoc:
chacha20-poly1305 at openssh.com,aes128-ctr,aes192-ctr,aes256-ctr,aes128-gcm at openssh.com,aes256-gcm at openssh.com,aes128-cbc,aes192-cbc,aes256-cbc
debug2: MACs ctos:
umac-64-etm at openssh.com,umac-128-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-256-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-512-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha1-etm at openssh.com,umac-64 at openssh.com,umac-128 at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-256,hmac-sha2-512,hmac-sha1
debug2: MACs stoc:
umac-64-etm at openssh.com,umac-128-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-256-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-512-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha1-etm at openssh.com,umac-64 at openssh.com,umac-128 at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-256,hmac-sha2-512,hmac-sha1
debug2: compression ctos: none,zlib at openssh.com,zlib
debug2: compression stoc: none,zlib at openssh.com,zlib
debug2: languages ctos:
debug2: languages stoc:
debug2: first_kex_follows 0
debug2: reserved 0
debug2: peer server KEXINIT proposal
debug2: KEX algorithms:
curve25519-sha256 at libssh.org,diffie-hellman-group-exchange-sha256
debug2: host key algorithms:
ssh-rsa,rsa-sha2-512,rsa-sha2-256,ecdsa-sha2-nistp256,ssh-ed25519
debug2: ciphers ctos:
chacha20-poly1305 at openssh.com,aes256-gcm at openssh.com,aes128-gcm at openssh.com,aes256-ctr,aes192-ctr,aes128-ctr
debug2: ciphers stoc:
chacha20-poly1305 at openssh.com,aes256-gcm at openssh.com,aes128-gcm at openssh.com,aes256-ctr,aes192-ctr,aes128-ctr
debug2: MACs ctos:
hmac-sha2-512-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-256-etm at openssh.com,hmac-ripemd160-etm at openssh.com,umac-128-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-512,hmac-sha2-256,hmac-ripemd160,umac-128 at openssh.com
debug2: MACs stoc:
hmac-sha2-512-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-256-etm at openssh.com,hmac-ripemd160-etm at openssh.com,umac-128-etm at openssh.com,hmac-sha2-512,hmac-sha2-256,hmac-ripemd160,umac-128 at openssh.com
debug2: compression ctos: none,zlib at openssh.com
debug2: compression stoc: none,zlib at openssh.com
debug2: languages ctos:
debug2: languages stoc:
debug2: first_kex_follows 0
debug2: reserved 0
debug1: kex: algorithm: curve25519-sha256 at libssh.org
debug1: kex: host key algorithm: ecdsa-sha2-nistp256
debug1: kex: server->client cipher: chacha20-poly1305 at openssh.com MAC:
<implicit> compression: none
debug1: kex: client->server cipher: chacha20-poly1305 at openssh.com MAC:
<implicit> compression: none
debug3: send packet: type 30
debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_ECDH_REPLY
debug3: receive packet: type 31
debug1: Server host key: ecdsa-sha2-nistp256
SHA256:HJl3L+wda7R07JWBFMeugzJUgOhJTMUB39kfHnUDIXE
debug3: put_host_port: [93.95.226.249]:1863
debug3: put_host_port: [repo.parabola.nu]:1863
debug3: hostkeys_foreach: reading file "/home/megver83/.ssh/known_hosts"
debug3: record_hostkey: found key type ECDSA in file
/home/megver83/.ssh/known_hosts:1
debug3: load_hostkeys: loaded 1 keys from [repo.parabola.nu]:1863
debug3: hostkeys_foreach: reading file "/home/megver83/.ssh/known_hosts"
debug3: record_hostkey: found key type ECDSA in file
/home/megver83/.ssh/known_hosts:1
debug3: load_hostkeys: loaded 1 keys from [93.95.226.249]:1863
debug1: Host '[repo.parabola.nu]:1863' is known and matches the ECDSA
host key.
debug1: Found key in /home/megver83/.ssh/known_hosts:1
debug3: send packet: type 21
debug2: set_newkeys: mode 1
debug1: rekey after 134217728 blocks
debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent
debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS
debug3: receive packet: type 21
debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received
debug2: set_newkeys: mode 0
debug1: rekey after 134217728 blocks
debug2: key: /home/megver83/.ssh/id_rsa (0x56086704b230), explicit, agent
debug3: send packet: type 5
debug3: receive packet: type 7
debug1: SSH2_MSG_EXT_INFO received
debug1: kex_input_ext_info:
server-sig-algs=<ssh-ed25519,ssh-rsa,ssh-dss,ecdsa-sha2-nistp256,ecdsa-sha2-nistp384,ecdsa-sha2-nistp521>
debug3: receive packet: type 6
debug2: service_accept: ssh-userauth
debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received
debug3: send packet: type 50
debug3: receive packet: type 51
debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey
debug3: start over, passed a different list publickey
debug3: preferred publickey,keyboard-interactive,password
debug3: authmethod_lookup publickey
debug3: remaining preferred: keyboard-interactive,password
debug3: authmethod_is_enabled publickey
debug1: Next authentication method: publickey
debug1: Offering RSA public key: /home/megver83/.ssh/id_rsa
debug3: send_pubkey_test
debug3: send packet: type 50
debug2: we sent a publickey packet, wait for reply
debug3: receive packet: type 51
debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey
debug2: we did not send a packet, disable method
debug1: No more authentication methods to try.
Permission denied (publickey).

Thanks in advance.

El 20/04/17 a las 21:02, Megver83 escribi?:
> Hi, when I try to run git to update the repositories in Parabola,
> I get the following:
> 
> $ git push Permission denied (publickey). fatal: Could not read
> from remote repository.
> 
> Please make sure you have the correct access rights and the
> repository exists.
> 
> What is it?
> 
> Regards, Megver83
> 

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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 21 16:18:06 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:18:06 -0400
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
In-Reply-To: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
References: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <8737d168g1.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 22:42:48 -0400,
Charles Roth wrote:
> I don't know if my credentials are still on the server. 
> 
> Please advise,

They should be.  Are the SSH key and PGP key here still current?

    https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/tree/users/1008.yml

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 21 16:29:16 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:29:16 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <58FA0A6D.20708@ceata.org>
References: <58F9B2F7.500@ceata.org> <58FA0A6D.20708@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <877f2dwwpv.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic <tct at ceata.org> writes:
>> There is no need to publicly uncover the identity of the donor, but
>> you need to tell us who has these donations to Parabola or, if these
>> donations have been spent, what they have been spent on.
>
> fauno, do you know anything about these donations?

this is from my logs.  for non-spanish speakers, emulatorman tells me
he's going to receive a personal donation that couldn't be paid over
liberapay and if he could thank this person on the donations page.  i
told him to put a "personal donation" comment on it.  maybe i meant on
the actual table instead of the revision history, i don't know.

2017-03-01 03:59:41 Emulatorman fauno: estoy por recibir una donacion de
  un amigo mio a mi cuenta bancaria por mi contribucion en Parabola ya
  que se le complica usar liberapay, puedo ponerlo en la lista de
  agradecimiento en nuestra pagina de Donate? Caso se pueda, tendria que
  poner un comentario? de ser asi que me sugeririas?

2017-03-01 09:35:37 fauno Emulatorman: si es una donacion personal no
  haria falta

2017-03-01 09:35:55 fauno pero si quiere salir en la pagina ponele el
  comentario "donacion personal"

emulatorman: is the liberapay account under your control?  we should
remove it then or you can send its credentials.

-- 
:{
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From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Fri Apr 21 16:52:09 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 11:52:09 -0500
Subject: [Dev] My SSH key is untrusted?
In-Reply-To: <0794c665-dfd8-b8af-5137-bc25c2651a4a@openmailbox.org>
References: <1e956a32-a402-f65b-9c0f-5859d8fa23ff@openmailbox.org>
 <0794c665-dfd8-b8af-5137-bc25c2651a4a@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1492793529.2036.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>

you are not alone; ovruni and I also get rejected from both servers.
probably a hackers.git problem?

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943




From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 17:03:04 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:03:04 -0300
Subject: [Dev] My SSH key is untrusted?
In-Reply-To: <1492793529.2036.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <1e956a32-a402-f65b-9c0f-5859d8fa23ff@openmailbox.org>
 <0794c665-dfd8-b8af-5137-bc25c2651a4a@openmailbox.org>
 <1492793529.2036.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <6a5d990c-8516-e801-bde3-ea3b6c470697@openmailbox.org>

I was reading in forums, looking for the solution in sky, soil and sea
:D that in the SSH server our public keys (from ~/.ssh/id_*.pub) have to
appear in the ~/.ssh/autorized_keys file from the server. AFAIK, you
have to have physical access to the server for doing that, unless
someone still can access it.

Or as you suggested, could be a problem from hackers.git :(
I hope this fixes soon, I was about to upgrade linux-libre.

El 21/04/17 a las 13:52, Isaac David escribi?:
> you are not alone; ovruni and I also get rejected from both servers.
> probably a hackers.git problem?
> 


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 17:06:44 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 17:06:44 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <0501b6e4-f15b-31b6-fb12-20fd76515d10@riseup.net>
References: <0501b6e4-f15b-31b6-fb12-20fd76515d10@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <9faefd88-b17e-c1e2-b96a-b5df7da6cc12@riseup.net>

On 04/21/2017 13:29 PM, fauno wrote:
> emulatorman: is the liberapay account under your control?  we should
> remove it then or you can send its credentials.

It isn't under my control since I left Parabola group in Liberapay.
Megver83 and g4jc have its credentials for now. [0]

[0]:https://liberapay.com/Parabola/

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 17:10:22 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:10:22 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <9faefd88-b17e-c1e2-b96a-b5df7da6cc12@riseup.net>
References: <0501b6e4-f15b-31b6-fb12-20fd76515d10@riseup.net>
 <9faefd88-b17e-c1e2-b96a-b5df7da6cc12@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <b878d214-887a-d318-08d4-6f3cb60bfd8b@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Really? so it's adhocratic? :P

El 21/04/17 a las 14:06, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> On 04/21/2017 13:29 PM, fauno wrote:
>> emulatorman: is the liberapay account under your control?  we
>> should remove it then or you can send its credentials.
> 
> It isn't under my control since I left Parabola group in
> Liberapay. Megver83 and g4jc have its credentials for now. [0]
> 
> [0]:https://liberapay.com/Parabola/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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unjpOggA2EgvKRiGqxT9lssQt4LXJExFhA1okV7XY/KNSeIwNcJaJobZukFPyibV
xPY8+SYw8DaKIy+V9HE1ftBUzswtkCVaH7bpZUmMI4kw1XAhURahhz+zZoBVbUh3
/LeKSY75z0DJpQAMmXP3I65wa9Hgtlz0g7uqjVQzuCwTkK6HvsBVQA5nTiIStRBb
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osYQhZpjHbnlQJdv5fVX5sDxYyHJdfl0gN/yz/yZkB7IKY/E86kAHz1GsPvQG4Q4
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=YLUI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 17:13:21 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 17:13:21 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <b878d214-887a-d318-08d4-6f3cb60bfd8b@openmailbox.org>
References: <0501b6e4-f15b-31b6-fb12-20fd76515d10@riseup.net>
 <9faefd88-b17e-c1e2-b96a-b5df7da6cc12@riseup.net>
 <b878d214-887a-d318-08d4-6f3cb60bfd8b@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <5baec1bc-0297-fba3-43ce-415981b332b0@riseup.net>

On 04/21/2017 05:10 PM, Megver83 wrote:
> Really? so it's adhocratic? :P

Yes, you can send its credentials with invitations for all Parabola
hacker to get total access to them, but they need sign up for Liberapay
first. If you need help, please let me know. :)

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 17:17:23 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:17:23 -0300
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
In-Reply-To: <082be29c-f4cc-bcf9-7bc8-65fe2c843c01@parlementum.red>
References: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
 <87lgqunr32.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <082be29c-f4cc-bcf9-7bc8-65fe2c843c01@parlementum.red>
Message-ID: <f5d444e9-f585-1fcf-30d6-f3966b96b71a@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

I think you are also experimenting what Isacdaavid, Ovruni and me are
experiencing, we are unable to access to SSH

or yours is another issue? I have not read all the emails, since they
are *many*

Regards,
Megver83.

El 21/04/17 a las 05:25, Charles Roth escribi?:
> Merci, mon ami.
> 
> 
> I meant my ssh pubkey and gpg pubkey on the server.
> 
> 
> 
> On 04/21/2017 12:43 AM, aurelien wrote:
>> Charles Roth <encycl at parlementum.red> writes:
>> 
>>> I don't know if my credentials are still on the server.
>>> 
>>> Please advise, Encyclomundi
>> My friend!
>> 
>> It should be fine that you (or someone else) put your profile in
>> the hackers list ... you are with us from years and years and do
>> not understand why your profile is not here or not anymore.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> -- Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 17:18:20 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:18:20 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <5baec1bc-0297-fba3-43ce-415981b332b0@riseup.net>
References: <0501b6e4-f15b-31b6-fb12-20fd76515d10@riseup.net>
 <9faefd88-b17e-c1e2-b96a-b5df7da6cc12@riseup.net>
 <b878d214-887a-d318-08d4-6f3cb60bfd8b@openmailbox.org>
 <5baec1bc-0297-fba3-43ce-415981b332b0@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <b56521bd-9b14-0cc0-dfff-a288984dfa7f@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

of course I need help, I have no experience with liberapay. How do I
send an invitation?

El 21/04/17 a las 14:13, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> On 04/21/2017 05:10 PM, Megver83 wrote:
>> Really? so it's adhocratic? :P
> 
> Yes, you can send its credentials with invitations for all
> Parabola hacker to get total access to them, but they need sign up
> for Liberapay first. If you need help, please let me know. :)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
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From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Fri Apr 21 17:21:26 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:21:26 -0500
Subject: [Dev] My SSH key is untrusted?
In-Reply-To: <6a5d990c-8516-e801-bde3-ea3b6c470697@openmailbox.org>
References: <1e956a32-a402-f65b-9c0f-5859d8fa23ff@openmailbox.org>
 <0794c665-dfd8-b8af-5137-bc25c2651a4a@openmailbox.org>
 <1492793529.2036.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6a5d990c-8516-e801-bde3-ea3b6c470697@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1492795286.2036.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>

Le ven. 21 avril 2017 ? 12:03, Megver83 a ?crit :
> our public keys (from ~/.ssh/id_*.pub) have to
> appear in the ~/.ssh/autorized_keys file from the server

that's the common scenario, however I'm afraid it doesn't apply here.
sshd on winston is configured to read public keys directly from
hackers.git.

whatever the case, only lukeshu can fix it. let's wait for him.

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943



From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 17:28:01 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:28:01 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Unknown monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <b56521bd-9b14-0cc0-dfff-a288984dfa7f@openmailbox.org>
References: <0501b6e4-f15b-31b6-fb12-20fd76515d10@riseup.net>
 <9faefd88-b17e-c1e2-b96a-b5df7da6cc12@riseup.net>
 <b878d214-887a-d318-08d4-6f3cb60bfd8b@openmailbox.org>
 <5baec1bc-0297-fba3-43ce-415981b332b0@riseup.net>
 <b56521bd-9b14-0cc0-dfff-a288984dfa7f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <2874b822-e9a9-3d2c-98f4-def0e93f106f@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

ok, now I see how it works, don't worry.

El 21/04/17 a las 14:18, Megver83 escribi?:
> of course I need help, I have no experience with liberapay. How do
> I send an invitation?
> 
> El 21/04/17 a las 14:13, Andr? Silva escribi?:
>> On 04/21/2017 05:10 PM, Megver83 wrote:
>>> Really? so it's adhocratic? :P
> 
>> Yes, you can send its credentials with invitations for all 
>> Parabola hacker to get total access to them, but they need sign
>> up for Liberapay first. If you need help, please let me know. :)
> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list
>>  Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 17:37:09 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:37:09 -0300
Subject: [Dev] I want to become a parabola hacker!
In-Reply-To: <20170421071951.GA10616@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
 <d0768461-b0c9-d381-39e4-aca352648c78@openmailbox.org>
 <20170421071951.GA10616@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <677c8ddb-69b5-c945-bc9e-5393a4dce065@openmailbox.org>

well, recently 2 packagers left the project, so maybe you could become
a packager since it is very easy (the difficult part it's to keep them
*all* up-to-date) and we need to maintain the [libre] repository as
updated as Arch's repos.

We can add your profile later, since some hackers are having problems
for accessing SSH, including me :'(

I gave you a broken link, see this one
https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/plain/users/1036.yml?id=2b0612a4d5f5268c55e258a41cc84d153226ec72

Use it as a template to create your profile, the photo you can upload
it later once you have the developer credentials to log in
https://www.parabola.nu/login

wish you the best!

El 21/04/17 a las 04:19, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> please find attached a profile and a (somewhat) recent, if
> slightly derpy picture of my face.
> 
> as for which role to take - I think it might make sense to start
> with something simpler, until I learn the ropes. I'm open to
> suggestions here, since you probably know better than me where the
> fires need to be put out first, but I was thinking along the lines
> of starting to maintain a couple of -libre packages and then later
> starting to do some work on libretools / packaging infrastructure
> things.
> 
> Does that sound reasonable?
> 
> Best, Andreas
> 
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 02:15:47PM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
>> Excellent! these are good news. Which rols to you want to take?
>> or you prefer us to choose it for you?
>> 
>> Then send us your ssh key and sign, and optionally a profile of
>> you and a photo, see this example[0]
>> 
>> Regards, Megver83
>> 
>> [0] 
>> https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/plain/users/1036.yml?id=2b0612a4d5f5
>>
>> 
268c55e258a41cc84d153226ec72
>> 
>> El 20/04/17 a las 14:05, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> I would like to step in and volunteer to become a parabola
>>> hacker, and help maintain infrastructure and packages. I think
>>> it's time for me to step in and do some actual work for the
>>> project :)
>>> 
>>> Some info on me to back up my application:
>>> 
>>> - you might know me as 'oaken-source' from IRC - I donated and
>>>  maintain mirror.grapentin.org, the (currently only) german 
>>> parabola mirror - before migrating to parabola, I have been
>>> using arch for longer than I can remember; I maintain a couple
>>> of desktop parabola installs now, as well as 2 dedicated
>>> servers running parabola - I maintain a private parabola
>>> package repo for miscellaneous stuff, and have some experience
>>> with writing PKGBUILDs, building packages from source, and
>>> using libretools - I have tons of experience in writing C /
>>> python / bash code, and to a slightly lesser extent in many
>>> other programming languages - I have a M.Sc. in Software
>>> Engineering from the University of Potsdam, mainly focused on
>>> system software and operating systems - I am currently doing my
>>> PhD in operating systems and middleware at the same university
>>> - this is my github profile (slightly out of date; I only just
>>> recently adopted the FSF endorsed terminology, some projects
>>> might sill say "open source" all over them): 
>>> https://github.com/oaken-source/ - I strongly dislike ruby and 
>>> perl.
>>> 
>>> I hope you will allow me to make myself useful :)
>>> 
>>> Best, Andreas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing
>>> list Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>>> 
>> 
>> -- SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org 
>> Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363 Tox: megver83 at toxme.io GPG:
>> 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78 GNUSocial:
>> @megver82 at quitter.cl Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID) 
>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 21 18:37:34 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:37:34 -0400
Subject: [Dev] My SSH key is untrusted?
In-Reply-To: <1492795286.2036.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <1e956a32-a402-f65b-9c0f-5859d8fa23ff@openmailbox.org>
 <0794c665-dfd8-b8af-5137-bc25c2651a4a@openmailbox.org>
 <1492793529.2036.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6a5d990c-8516-e801-bde3-ea3b6c470697@openmailbox.org>
 <1492795286.2036.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <871ssl61zl.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:21:26 -0400,
Isaac David wrote:
> Le ven. 21 avril 2017 ? 12:03, Megver83 a ?crit :
> > our public keys (from ~/.ssh/id_*.pub) have to
> > appear in the ~/.ssh/autorized_keys file from the server
> 
> that's the common scenario, however I'm afraid it doesn't apply here.
> sshd on winston is configured to read public keys directly from
> hackers.git.
> 
> whatever the case, only lukeshu can fix it. let's wait for him.

I've fixed it now.  It was caused by a syntax error in 1037.yml which
was introduced by megver83 when adding heckyel.  I've added a note to
the README about how to check the syntax before pushing, and I have
added it to my personal TODO list to have the git server reject pushes
that would break it.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 21 18:43:54 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:43:54 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Jorginho?
Message-ID: <87zif94n4l.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Hi all,

I was going about reviewing the deletions made on ParabolaWiki, and I
noticed that on their ways out, Emulatorman, coadde, and Crazytoon
disabled their own accounts.

However, Emulatorman also disabled Jorginho's account.  Was this a
mistake?  Or is Jorginho involved in all of this?

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 19:28:59 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:28:59 +0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <f10288f5-d9d4-04b2-9b23-d71dd8d5c76b@riseup.net>
References: <50cc03d4-f752-f22b-8c64-ed76240a1a97@riseup.net>
 <f10288f5-d9d4-04b2-9b23-d71dd8d5c76b@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58FA5D7B.6070606@ceata.org>

On 21.04.2017 18:20, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 04/21/2017 02:25 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
>> * 1x BeagleBone Black rev.C
>> * 5x Jumper DuPont wire
>> * 1x FT232R USB UART device
>> * 1x USB-miniUSB cable
>>
>> Let me know if it is ok and the address to send it to the arm port
>> hackers, or other hacker that wants to work on the arm port. I let you
>> know about the shipping costs.

> I've found the shipping rates to you check it [0], i suggest you read
> from the page 6 that is "VENTANILLA INTERNACIONALES / NO DOCUMENTOS
> MERCADER?A". From there, you can check what's the best option/country
> for you.

The BBB weights under 50g (=0.05kg), plus the weight of the accessories,
of the box and of the bubble envelope, it might slightly exceed 0.1kg,
but it should not go over 0.25kg. For Economy shipping (with tracking
number), according to the list of prices this should be between 490-680
UYU (15-22 EUR) for most destinations in Europe and Americas, except
Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Bolivia, Venezuela, to which
shipping costs only 275-380 UYU (9-13 EUR).

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

For this total, Ceata will be needing at least the receipt, if the post
office can't issue an invoice for Ceata. If the bubble envelope will be
purchased from a different shop and not at the post office, Ceata will
need the receipt for that purchase too. Based on the receipt(s) and/or
invoice, Ceata will reimburse Emulatorman the shipping costs via Bitcoin
or PayPal (the fee for a bank transfer is too big to consider).

If, however, the shipping can be paid for online with a VISA card, then
Ceata can pay directly and this could save us the time and money to do a
reimbursement.

I guess we still need the mailing address of the recipient of this
Parabola hardware.

Please advise,
Tiberiu

> [0]:http://www.correo.com.uy/otrosdocumentos/pdf/tarifas/CorreoUruguayo_Tarifas_Ventanillas.pdf


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 19:30:38 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 19:30:38 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Jorginho?
Message-ID: <8edfe635-8bf8-b9bd-5f93-465fb1178abc@riseup.net>

Hi lukeshu, I've disabled Jorginho's account (while i'm disabling my
account) since he let me know to do it for lack of time. I guess he will
send a farewell email for you when he has time.

Regards,
Andr?.

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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 21 19:57:52 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 15:57:52 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Request to become a packager
In-Reply-To: <87h91jx7mi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <234b4577-80a0-28b0-b905-403d35dd537e@openmailbox.org>
 <d04e6191-40f4-b486-111b-efec555dc96f@openmailbox.org>
 <87h91jx7mi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <87y3ut4jpb.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:21:25 -0400,
fauno wrote:
> lukeshu: are you on the pad?  we can work this draft there, but if
> you're busy i'll just start it on a public one and post the url here.

I have not yet done any work on setting up a parabola pad, no.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 20:20:03 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 20:20:03 +0000
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <cf6dc791-9541-54de-1cdb-fe2a63369bc5@riseup.net>
References: <50cc03d4-f752-f22b-8c64-ed76240a1a97@riseup.net>
 <f10288f5-d9d4-04b2-9b23-d71dd8d5c76b@riseup.net>
 <cf6dc791-9541-54de-1cdb-fe2a63369bc5@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <26b99c01-e73a-ce05-51a4-c0500de95e95@riseup.net>

On 04/21/2017 22:28 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> The BBB weights under 50g (=0.05kg), plus the weight of the accessories,
> of the box and of the bubble envelope, it might slightly exceed 0.1kg,
> but it should not go over 0.25kg. For Economy shipping (with tracking
> number), according to the list of prices this should be between 490-680
> UYU (15-22 EUR) for most destinations in Europe and Americas, except
> Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Bolivia, Venezuela, to which
> shipping costs only 275-380 UYU (9-13 EUR).
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, you're right.

> For this total, Ceata will be needing at least the receipt, if the post
> office can't issue an invoice for Ceata. If the bubble envelope will be
> purchased from a different shop and not at the post office, Ceata will
> need the receipt for that purchase too. Based on the receipt(s) and/or
> invoice, Ceata will reimburse Emulatorman the shipping costs via Bitcoin
> or PayPal (the fee for a bank transfer is too big to consider).

I don't have money to pay it in advance, so I prefer Ceata can do it
with its credit card through online way.

> If, however, the shipping can be paid for online with a VISA card, then
> Ceata can pay directly and this could save us the time and money to do a
> reimbursement.

I will looking for if Correo Uruguayo contains credit card support, or
else we should use another international services such as FedEx [0]
since i think it contains credit card support for international
shipping, but you need open an account for it, what do you think?

[0]:https://www.fedex.com/uy_english/

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From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 20:32:29 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 23:32:29 +0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <26b99c01-e73a-ce05-51a4-c0500de95e95@riseup.net>
References: <50cc03d4-f752-f22b-8c64-ed76240a1a97@riseup.net>
 <f10288f5-d9d4-04b2-9b23-d71dd8d5c76b@riseup.net>
 <cf6dc791-9541-54de-1cdb-fe2a63369bc5@riseup.net>
 <26b99c01-e73a-ce05-51a4-c0500de95e95@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58FA6C5D.8070305@ceata.org>

On 21.04.2017 23:20, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 04/21/2017 22:28 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> If, however, the shipping can be paid for online with a VISA card, then
>> Ceata can pay directly and this could save us the time and money to do a
>> reimbursement.
> 
> I will looking for if Correo Uruguayo contains credit card support, or
> else we should use another international services such as FedEx [0]
> since i think it contains credit card support for international
> shipping, but you need open an account for it, what do you think?
> 
> [0]:https://www.fedex.com/uy_english/

Please check with Correo. For FedEx, we'd need to know the estimated
cost for the shipping.

Tiberiu


From nobody at parabola.nu  Fri Apr 21 20:39:38 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 20:39:38 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Kernels package [linux-libre-grsec-xen] marked
 out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170421203938.1103.39244@proton.parabola.nu>

bundyyoo at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:




The user provided the following additional text:

upstream is at 4.9.24



From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 21:00:04 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 21:00:04 +0000
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <58FA6C5D.8070305@ceata.org>
References: <50cc03d4-f752-f22b-8c64-ed76240a1a97@riseup.net>
 <f10288f5-d9d4-04b2-9b23-d71dd8d5c76b@riseup.net>
 <cf6dc791-9541-54de-1cdb-fe2a63369bc5@riseup.net>
 <26b99c01-e73a-ce05-51a4-c0500de95e95@riseup.net>
 <58FA6C5D.8070305@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <d3a42862-976d-5dd7-863c-f42f3dc64dbe@riseup.net>

On 04/21/2017 08:32 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> On 21.04.2017 23:20, Andr? Silva wrote:
>> On 04/21/2017 22:28 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>>> If, however, the shipping can be paid for online with a VISA card, then
>>> Ceata can pay directly and this could save us the time and money to do a
>>> reimbursement.
>>
>> I will looking for if Correo Uruguayo contains credit card support, or
>> else we should use another international services such as FedEx [0]
>> since i think it contains credit card support for international
>> shipping, but you need open an account for it, what do you think?
>>
>> [0]:https://www.fedex.com/uy_english/
> 
> Please check with Correo. For FedEx, we'd need to know the estimated
> cost for the shipping.
> 
> Tiberiu

I didn't find options about it in Correo. For FedEx, there's a pdf that
contains the shipping costs from Uruguay in U$D [0]. I suggest you read
from the page 5 that is "FedEx International Economy".

[0]:http://images.fedex.com/downloads/lac/rates_2017/uy_2017.pdf


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From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 21:12:45 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 00:12:45 +0300
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <d3a42862-976d-5dd7-863c-f42f3dc64dbe@riseup.net>
References: <50cc03d4-f752-f22b-8c64-ed76240a1a97@riseup.net>
 <f10288f5-d9d4-04b2-9b23-d71dd8d5c76b@riseup.net>
 <cf6dc791-9541-54de-1cdb-fe2a63369bc5@riseup.net>
 <26b99c01-e73a-ce05-51a4-c0500de95e95@riseup.net>
 <58FA6C5D.8070305@ceata.org>
 <d3a42862-976d-5dd7-863c-f42f3dc64dbe@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58FA75CD.6010304@ceata.org>

On 22.04.2017 00:00, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 04/21/2017 08:32 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>> On 21.04.2017 23:20, Andr? Silva wrote:
>>> On 04/21/2017 22:28 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
>>>> If, however, the shipping can be paid for online with a VISA card, then
>>>> Ceata can pay directly and this could save us the time and money to do a
>>>> reimbursement.
>>>
>>> I will looking for if Correo Uruguayo contains credit card support, or
>>> else we should use another international services such as FedEx [0]
>>> since i think it contains credit card support for international
>>> shipping, but you need open an account for it, what do you think?
>>>
>>> [0]:https://www.fedex.com/uy_english/
>>
>> Please check with Correo. For FedEx, we'd need to know the estimated
>> cost for the shipping.
>>
>> Tiberiu
> 
> I didn't find options about it in Correo. For FedEx, there's a pdf that
> contains the shipping costs from Uruguay in U$D [0]. I suggest you read
> from the page 5 that is "FedEx International Economy".
> 
> [0]:http://images.fedex.com/downloads/lac/rates_2017/uy_2017.pdf

That's a lot of money for under 0.5kg. From 35 to 70 EUR for Americas
and Europe. That's 300-400% more than with Correo.

Three weeks ago you mentioned that you can donate 100 CHF (93 EUR) from
your Swiss bank account, but now you say you can't afford to pay 15 EUR
in advance and get reimbursed few days later.

On 30.03.2017 09:17, Andr? Silva wrote:
> i would make a personal donation (100 CHF) to Luke with my savings
> from my bank account in Switzerland

This is where I stop and wait for fauno to tell me what is the
community's consensus regarding the shipping/payment method of the
Parabola hardware in Emulatorman's possession.

Tiberiu


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 21 21:23:40 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 21:23:40 +0000
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <58FA75CD.6010304@ceata.org>
References: <50cc03d4-f752-f22b-8c64-ed76240a1a97@riseup.net>
 <f10288f5-d9d4-04b2-9b23-d71dd8d5c76b@riseup.net>
 <cf6dc791-9541-54de-1cdb-fe2a63369bc5@riseup.net>
 <26b99c01-e73a-ce05-51a4-c0500de95e95@riseup.net>
 <58FA6C5D.8070305@ceata.org>
 <d3a42862-976d-5dd7-863c-f42f3dc64dbe@riseup.net>
 <58FA75CD.6010304@ceata.org>
Message-ID: <57a2191c-631b-b3e1-7d73-2fdca428047e@riseup.net>

On 04/21/2017 09:12 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote:
> That's a lot of money for under 0.5kg. From 35 to 70 EUR for Americas
> and Europe. That's 300-400% more than with Correo.
> 
> Three weeks ago you mentioned that you can donate 100 CHF (93 EUR) from
> your Swiss bank account, but now you say you can't afford to pay 15 EUR
> in advance and get reimbursed few days later.

Since Luke couldn't receive my donation and otherwise he needed a VPN
service for him, i paid his service with that donation for 2 years.


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From nobody at parabola.nu  Fri Apr 21 21:33:22 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 21:33:22 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre-grsec] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170421213322.1103.67959@proton.parabola.nu>

jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* linux-libre-grsec 1:4.9.21_gnu.r201704091948-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-grsec/
* linux-libre-grsec 1:4.9.21_gnu.r201704091948-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-grsec/
* linux-libre-grsec-docs 1:4.9.21_gnu.r201704091948-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-grsec-docs/
* linux-libre-grsec-docs 1:4.9.21_gnu.r201704091948-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-grsec-docs/
* linux-libre-grsec-headers 1:4.9.21_gnu.r201704091948-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-grsec-headers/
* linux-libre-grsec-headers 1:4.9.21_gnu.r201704091948-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-grsec-headers/


The user provided the following additional text:

Grsecurity has released a patch for 4.9.24



From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 21 21:48:27 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 17:48:27 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Deletions reverted
Message-ID: <87wpad4el0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Hi all,

I've restored everything under repo.parabola.nu/other/ that coadde
deleted.  I did not retore the [~coadde] or [~emulatorman]
repositories, as they were empty anyway at the time of the snapshot I
restored from.

I've restored all wiki pages that coadde deleted on 2017-04-18.  I did
not revert the edits made made by coadde on the wiki that day; the are
mostly (all?) then-deleted images from other pages.  Not every page
needs a mascot on it.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From tct at ceata.org  Fri Apr 21 21:52:04 2017
From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 00:52:04 +0300
Subject: [Dev] Deletions reverted
In-Reply-To: <87wpad4el0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87wpad4el0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <58FA7F04.8060603@ceata.org>

On 22.04.2017 00:48, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've restored everything under repo.parabola.nu/other/ that coadde
> deleted.  I did not retore the [~coadde] or [~emulatorman]
> repositories, as they were empty anyway at the time of the snapshot I
> restored from.
> 
> I've restored all wiki pages that coadde deleted on 2017-04-18.  I did
> not revert the edits made made by coadde on the wiki that day; the are
> mostly (all?) then-deleted images from other pages.  Not every page
> needs a mascot on it.

Lukeshu, congratulations on cleaning up the mess they made on their way out!

Tiberiu


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Fri Apr 21 21:59:37 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 17:59:37 -0400
Subject: [Dev] sponsorship request
In-Reply-To: <568E3E51.4070509@gandi.net>
References: <87bn986jzr.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <568E3E51.4070509@gandi.net>
Message-ID: <87shl14e2e.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Hi Cedric,

Once again, thank you for sponsoring us with the parabola.nu domain.

fauno wrote:
> We chose to use the parabola.nu domain name since it's short (it
> previously was parabolagnulinux.org!) and the .nu TLD is a play/hack on
> GNU.

We still possess the parabolagnulinux.org domain, and still have quite
a few links around the 'net pointing to it.  For simplicity of management,
we've already transferred it to the same CRXXXX account that parabola.nu
is managed from.

The registration for parabolagnulinux.org is up in November; would you be
so kind as to also sponsor us with that domain as well?

-- 
Thank you, and happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker
  Parabola GNU/Linux-libre


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 22:06:17 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 19:06:17 -0300
Subject: [Dev] My SSH key is untrusted?
In-Reply-To: <871ssl61zl.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <1e956a32-a402-f65b-9c0f-5859d8fa23ff@openmailbox.org>
 <0794c665-dfd8-b8af-5137-bc25c2651a4a@openmailbox.org>
 <1492793529.2036.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6a5d990c-8516-e801-bde3-ea3b6c470697@openmailbox.org>
 <1492795286.2036.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <871ssl61zl.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <2c7c9842-b7d5-9efa-f741-63ddddba8c8c@openmailbox.org>

I'm sorry for my mistake :P
I realized that it tries to run colordiff, however it was not installed
in my system, could you put it as a dependency of parabola-hackers? or
at least as optdepend?

The other thing, what does this mean?

/lib/parabola-hackers/meta-normalize-stdio:116: warning: constant
::Fixnum is deprecated

I always get it when running meta-check.
All this are minimum errors BTW.

El 21/04/17 a las 15:37, Luke Shumaker escribi?:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:21:26 -0400,
> Isaac David wrote:
>> Le ven. 21 avril 2017 ? 12:03, Megver83 a ?crit :
>>> our public keys (from ~/.ssh/id_*.pub) have to
>>> appear in the ~/.ssh/autorized_keys file from the server
>>
>> that's the common scenario, however I'm afraid it doesn't apply here.
>> sshd on winston is configured to read public keys directly from
>> hackers.git.
>>
>> whatever the case, only lukeshu can fix it. let's wait for him.
> 
> I've fixed it now.  It was caused by a syntax error in 1037.yml which
> was introduced by megver83 when adding heckyel.  I've added a note to
> the README about how to check the syntax before pushing, and I have
> added it to my personal TODO list to have the git server reject pushes
> that would break it.
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 22:07:59 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 19:07:59 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Jorginho?
In-Reply-To: <8edfe635-8bf8-b9bd-5f93-465fb1178abc@riseup.net>
References: <8edfe635-8bf8-b9bd-5f93-465fb1178abc@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <3f81ef60-8125-b5af-9f11-9e53322174c8@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Crap! he maintained the ISOs, right?

El 21/04/17 a las 16:30, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> Hi lukeshu, I've disabled Jorginho's account (while i'm disabling
> my account) since he let me know to do it for lack of time. I guess
> he will send a farewell email for you when he has time.
> 
> Regards, Andr?.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 22:37:40 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 19:37:40 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <5ec28e88-53dc-e320-aa72-5ef850e603ec@openmailbox.org>

OK guys, here's a proposal for some core packages:

uboot (all): Isacdaavid
linux-libre (from AUR): Megver83
systemd: lukeshu (since Parabola uses a custom version maintained by him)

Isacdaavid, if you think maintaining uboot it's too much, I can help
you by maintaining linux-libre for all architectures. And about uboot,
can you continue with the development of the grub version? since
linux-libre for ARM now offers an initramfs, it is possible to have
grub without having to patch it to disable the support (as Emulatorman
told me he did)

fauno: can you put this proposed distribution in the pad, please?

Thanks guys.

El 21/04/17 a las 10:51, fauno escribi?:
> Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info> writes:
> 
>> Megver83 requested on irc that somebody else made the list.
> 
> thanks!
> 
>> this one contains all the split packages in Parabola-only repos 
>> (e.g. libre, nonprism, pcr) except for mips64el ones. some 
>> packages are repeated because they are built by different people 
>> for different architectures, so this is rather a list of unique 
>> packager+pkgname combinations.
>> 
>> numbers may look more daunting than they really are because of 
>> the base-package/split-package distinction, but they should give 
>> us a sense of the proportion of work that needs to be done.
>> 
>> $ cut -d ' ' -f 1,2 packagers.txt | sort | uniq -c | sort -n
>> 
>> 1 Jorge Lopez 2 Drtan Samos 2 Guest One
> 
> this guy hasn't been around for ages.  we asked him to leave 
> because of his constant sexist remarks on the irc channel (and 
> that's why we have an irc policy)
> 
>> 3 Micha? Mas?owski 3 Unknown Packager
> 
> wtf, i guess someone forgot to configure makepkg.conf :P
> 
> Unknown Packager libre/uboot-tools Unknown Packager 
> libre/vboot-utils Unknown Packager pcr/quackle
> 
>> 5 Jorge Araya 6 Charles Roth 8 aurelien DESBRIERES 11 Esteban 
>> Carnevale 15 Aur?lien Desbri?res 22 Aur?lien DESBRI?RES 33 David 
>> P. 40 Aurelien DESBRIERES 41 Nicol?s Reynolds 64 Luke R. 84 Luke 
>> Shumaker 129 M?rcio Silva 238 Isaac David 495 Omar Vega 807
>> Andr? Silva
>> 
>> also, don't forget to factor in other tasks like maintaining the 
>> ISOs
> 
> do we need to maintain so many kernels?  are people using them?  i 
> think we need to give priority to stuff in [libre] anyway, which
> is a lot to start D:
> 
> i put them all here:
> 
> https://pad.kefir.red/p/ParabolaPackages
> 
> i put my name on the ones i can maintain
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 21 22:39:59 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 19:39:59 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <5ec28e88-53dc-e320-aa72-5ef850e603ec@openmailbox.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5ec28e88-53dc-e320-aa72-5ef850e603ec@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <95bb87bc-b921-b2b4-8b54-6dfa898933f1@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

oh, i forgot to mention, does anyone here knows how to build the
keyring? could maybe a bot or autobuilder be implemented for this?

El 21/04/17 a las 19:37, Megver83 escribi?:
> OK guys, here's a proposal for some core packages:
> 
> uboot (all): Isacdaavid linux-libre (from AUR): Megver83 systemd:
> lukeshu (since Parabola uses a custom version maintained by him)
> 
> Isacdaavid, if you think maintaining uboot it's too much, I can
> help you by maintaining linux-libre for all architectures. And
> about uboot, can you continue with the development of the grub
> version? since linux-libre for ARM now offers an initramfs, it is
> possible to have grub without having to patch it to disable the
> support (as Emulatorman told me he did)
> 
> fauno: can you put this proposed distribution in the pad, please?
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> El 21/04/17 a las 10:51, fauno escribi?:
>> Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info> writes:
>> 
>>> Megver83 requested on irc that somebody else made the list.
>> 
>> thanks!
>> 
>>> this one contains all the split packages in Parabola-only repos
>>>  (e.g. libre, nonprism, pcr) except for mips64el ones. some 
>>> packages are repeated because they are built by different
>>> people for different architectures, so this is rather a list of
>>> unique packager+pkgname combinations.
>>> 
>>> numbers may look more daunting than they really are because of
>>>  the base-package/split-package distinction, but they should
>>> give us a sense of the proportion of work that needs to be
>>> done.
>>> 
>>> $ cut -d ' ' -f 1,2 packagers.txt | sort | uniq -c | sort -n
>>> 
>>> 1 Jorge Lopez 2 Drtan Samos 2 Guest One
>> 
>> this guy hasn't been around for ages.  we asked him to leave 
>> because of his constant sexist remarks on the irc channel (and 
>> that's why we have an irc policy)
>> 
>>> 3 Micha? Mas?owski 3 Unknown Packager
>> 
>> wtf, i guess someone forgot to configure makepkg.conf :P
>> 
>> Unknown Packager libre/uboot-tools Unknown Packager 
>> libre/vboot-utils Unknown Packager pcr/quackle
>> 
>>> 5 Jorge Araya 6 Charles Roth 8 aurelien DESBRIERES 11 Esteban 
>>> Carnevale 15 Aur?lien Desbri?res 22 Aur?lien DESBRI?RES 33
>>> David P. 40 Aurelien DESBRIERES 41 Nicol?s Reynolds 64 Luke R.
>>> 84 Luke Shumaker 129 M?rcio Silva 238 Isaac David 495 Omar Vega
>>> 807 Andr? Silva
>>> 
>>> also, don't forget to factor in other tasks like maintaining
>>> the ISOs
>> 
>> do we need to maintain so many kernels?  are people using them?
>> i think we need to give priority to stuff in [libre] anyway,
>> which is a lot to start D:
>> 
>> i put them all here:
>> 
>> https://pad.kefir.red/p/ParabolaPackages
>> 
>> i put my name on the ones i can maintain
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list
>>  Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>> 
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Sat Apr 22 01:16:12 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:16:12 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <95bb87bc-b921-b2b4-8b54-6dfa898933f1@openmailbox.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5ec28e88-53dc-e320-aa72-5ef850e603ec@openmailbox.org>
 <95bb87bc-b921-b2b4-8b54-6dfa898933f1@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <877f2dkzs3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> oh, i forgot to mention, does anyone here knows how to build the
> keyring? could maybe a bot or autobuilder be implemented for this?

i think were was a hook on hackers.git that did it

>> fauno: can you put this proposed distribution in the pad, please?

you can add it too ;)

-- 
http://partidopirata.com.ar
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sat Apr 22 01:18:40 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 21:18:40 -0400
Subject: [Dev] My SSH key is untrusted?
In-Reply-To: <2c7c9842-b7d5-9efa-f741-63ddddba8c8c@openmailbox.org>
References: <1e956a32-a402-f65b-9c0f-5859d8fa23ff@openmailbox.org>
 <0794c665-dfd8-b8af-5137-bc25c2651a4a@openmailbox.org>
 <1492793529.2036.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <6a5d990c-8516-e801-bde3-ea3b6c470697@openmailbox.org>
 <1492795286.2036.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <871ssl61zl.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <2c7c9842-b7d5-9efa-f741-63ddddba8c8c@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87r30l44un.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 18:06:17 -0400,
Megver83 wrote:
> I'm sorry for my mistake :P
> I realized that it tries to run colordiff, however it was not installed
> in my system, could you put it as a dependency of parabola-hackers?

Oh yes, I'll fix that!

> The other thing, what does this mean?
> 
> /lib/parabola-hackers/meta-normalize-stdio:116: warning: constant
> ::Fixnum is deprecated

You can ignore that.  It's because of changes in Ruby.  It's just a
warning.  As long as the process exits with 0, you're good.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sat Apr 22 01:21:33 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 21:21:33 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <5ec28e88-53dc-e320-aa72-5ef850e603ec@openmailbox.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5ec28e88-53dc-e320-aa72-5ef850e603ec@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87pog544pu.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 18:37:40 -0400,
Megver83 wrote:
> linux-libre (from AUR): Megver83

Don't count on being able to pull from AUR; Emulatorman also did a
pretty good job of pushing all of his packages to AUR; he's the
maintainer of the AUR package.

> systemd: lukeshu (since Parabola uses a custom version maintained by him)

Ha, I wish!  We are not using notsystemd... yet.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sat Apr 22 01:22:48 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 21:22:48 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <95bb87bc-b921-b2b4-8b54-6dfa898933f1@openmailbox.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <5ec28e88-53dc-e320-aa72-5ef850e603ec@openmailbox.org>
 <95bb87bc-b921-b2b4-8b54-6dfa898933f1@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87o9vp44nr.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 18:39:59 -0400,
Megver83 wrote:
> oh, i forgot to mention, does anyone here knows how to build the
> keyring? could maybe a bot or autobuilder be implemented for this?

Yes!  In fact, that was the first package that we tought autobuilder
to build.  Installing autobuilder on the new server is getting bumped
up on the TODO list.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sat Apr 22 02:18:45 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:18:45 -0400
Subject: [Dev] parabola-hackers 20170421 release announcement
Message-ID: <87lgqt422i.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

I've just published an update to Parabola's tools for using
hackers.git for account management, parabola-hackers.

This is a minor update to shut up warnings from modern versions of
Ruby.

Changes from 20170204 to 20170421:
 - Update meta-normalize-stdio (used by meta-check) to not uses the
   now-deprecated 'Fixnum' type.

Also, the package now declares a dependency on 'colordiff', which had
mistakenly been omitted from depends=() previously.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From andreas at grapentin.org  Sat Apr 22 07:12:00 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 09:12:00 +0200
Subject: [Dev] I want to become a parabola hacker!
In-Reply-To: <677c8ddb-69b5-c945-bc9e-5393a4dce065@openmailbox.org>
References: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
 <d0768461-b0c9-d381-39e4-aca352648c78@openmailbox.org>
 <20170421071951.GA10616@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <677c8ddb-69b5-c945-bc9e-5393a4dce065@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170422071200.GA13144@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


weird, I thought I sent profile and picture already - maybe the mailing
list swallowed them...

here's the profile again, for completeness.

-A

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 02:37:09PM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
> well, recently 2 packagers left the project, so maybe you could become
> a packager since it is very easy (the difficult part it's to keep them
> *all* up-to-date) and we need to maintain the [libre] repository as
> updated as Arch's repos.
> 
> We can add your profile later, since some hackers are having problems
> for accessing SSH, including me :'(
> 
> I gave you a broken link, see this one
> https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/plain/users/1036.yml?id=2b0612a4d5f5268c55e258a41cc84d153226ec72
> 
> Use it as a template to create your profile, the photo you can upload
> it later once you have the developer credentials to log in
> https://www.parabola.nu/login
> 
> wish you the best!
> 
> El 21/04/17 a las 04:19, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > please find attached a profile and a (somewhat) recent, if
> > slightly derpy picture of my face.
> > 
> > as for which role to take - I think it might make sense to start
> > with something simpler, until I learn the ropes. I'm open to
> > suggestions here, since you probably know better than me where the
> > fires need to be put out first, but I was thinking along the lines
> > of starting to maintain a couple of -libre packages and then later
> > starting to do some work on libretools / packaging infrastructure
> > things.
> > 
> > Does that sound reasonable?
> > 
> > Best, Andreas
> > 
> > On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 02:15:47PM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
> >> Excellent! these are good news. Which rols to you want to take?
> >> or you prefer us to choose it for you?
> >> 
> >> Then send us your ssh key and sign, and optionally a profile of
> >> you and a photo, see this example[0]
> >> 
> >> Regards, Megver83
> >> 
> >> [0] 
> >> https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/plain/users/1036.yml?id=2b0612a4d5f5
> >>
> >> 
> 268c55e258a41cc84d153226ec72
> >> 
> >> El 20/04/17 a las 14:05, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi everyone,
> >>> 
> >>> I would like to step in and volunteer to become a parabola
> >>> hacker, and help maintain infrastructure and packages. I think
> >>> it's time for me to step in and do some actual work for the
> >>> project :)
> >>> 
> >>> Some info on me to back up my application:
> >>> 
> >>> - you might know me as 'oaken-source' from IRC - I donated and
> >>>  maintain mirror.grapentin.org, the (currently only) german 
> >>> parabola mirror - before migrating to parabola, I have been
> >>> using arch for longer than I can remember; I maintain a couple
> >>> of desktop parabola installs now, as well as 2 dedicated
> >>> servers running parabola - I maintain a private parabola
> >>> package repo for miscellaneous stuff, and have some experience
> >>> with writing PKGBUILDs, building packages from source, and
> >>> using libretools - I have tons of experience in writing C /
> >>> python / bash code, and to a slightly lesser extent in many
> >>> other programming languages - I have a M.Sc. in Software
> >>> Engineering from the University of Potsdam, mainly focused on
> >>> system software and operating systems - I am currently doing my
> >>> PhD in operating systems and middleware at the same university
> >>> - this is my github profile (slightly out of date; I only just
> >>> recently adopted the FSF endorsed terminology, some projects
> >>> might sill say "open source" all over them): 
> >>> https://github.com/oaken-source/ - I strongly dislike ruby and 
> >>> perl.
> >>> 
> >>> I hope you will allow me to make myself useful :)
> >>> 
> >>> Best, Andreas
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing
> >>> list Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> >>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> -- SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org 
> >> Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363 Tox: megver83 at toxme.io GPG:
> >> 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78 GNUSocial:
> >> @megver82 at quitter.cl Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID) 
> >> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> >> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> >> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> > Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> > 
> 
> -- 
> SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
> XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
> Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
> GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
> GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
> Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
> 



> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev


-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
---
username: oaken-source
fullname: Andreas Grapentin
email:
- andreas at grapentin.org
groups:
- hackers
pgp_keyid: BFA8008A8265677063B11BF47171986E4B745536
ssh_keys:
  andreas at grapentin.org: ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAADAQABAAABAQCuXyvHi+T65YJ8bM3RQGNsxLlHHM5IG/T53MPznXBAaUqvexLzKiXEvh52uR1Kd6jQ3khNbb3CF2QpGwH/uK+YBoKHwur9PPoEp7ZeEH7nTmWKbOKLSxRp9QgtcBANby8K9Jo3wMHbU8AFN8W7BrlT4/oAPs82jpPnfyuBmDAkW4jl0IEy5X6sdaSlGifLgo+d4rzrpyNXPQYSmEQOp3pHwaN/e7AB9NjHtoLn30d7oMUgbLNdUgdk+LptR8fvhxHeJLNRxYCwDPQgpkokNYmlEx+eCHgJaGVcEPeXqRp9xjtMa/WfWrgDtRDdTQh8Lsm+eNNLDXukR0JPj7lAMl0x
shell: "/bin/bash"
extra:
  other_contact: Freenode:oaken-source
  roles: Parabola Hacker
  occupation: Student
  yob: 1989
  location: Potsdam, Germany
  languages: English, German
  interests: Software Engineering, Operating Sytems, Horsemanship
  favorite_distros: Parabola GNU/Linux-libre, LFS, GNU/Minix (someday...)
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From nobody at parabola.nu  Sat Apr 22 14:20:03 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 14:20:03 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170422142003.1103.83866@proton.parabola.nu>

kontakt at ghaglund.se wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* iceweasel 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel/
* iceweasel 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel/
* iceweasel-debug 1:52.0.deb1-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel-debug/
* iceweasel-debug 1:52.0.deb1-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel-debug/


The user provided the following additional text:

Firefox 53 is available



From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sat Apr 22 15:20:43 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 11:20:43 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
Message-ID: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Hi all,

Someone reported via parabolaweb that Iceweasel is out of date, so I
began to look in to how to update it (having been the original
packager of Iceweasel when it first came to Parabola; before handing
it off to Emulatorman).

When I first added Iceweasel, it was by mimicking ConnOS (our then
sister distro), and imported Debian's rebranded Firefox.

  (This had the added benefit that Debian applied portability patches
  to support architectures that Firefox upstream didn't support; this
  was very useful when we had MIPS support)

However, ConnOS no longer exists as an Arch derivative (it shut down
for a while, then came back as a Gentoo derivative), and Iceweasel no
longer exists in Debian; Debian now ships proper Firefox.  I hadn't
realized that about a year ago "Debian Iceweasel" became "Parabola
Iceweasel" and Emulatorman began maintaning the Iceweasel patches
outside of Debian.

Trisquel Abrowser is Trisquel's rebranded Firefox (and is distinct
from (the former?) Ubuntu Abrowser).  It is maintained by quidam, who
is also the maintainer of GNU IceCat.  We always had to maintain a set
of patches *on top of* Debian's patches, to address FSDG concerns; if
we import from Trisquel, that maintenance effort goes away.

  (I also expect this to take care of architecture-patching; Trisquel
  inheritys from Ubuntu which inherits from Debian; but it this isn't
  a sure thing, it is possible that we may have to still deal with
  pathing for ARM.)

I think that it makes sense to cooperate with Trisquel, rather than
duplicate the effort.

As for having both Abrowser and IceCat; Abrowser tracks the latest
Firefox release, IceCat tracks Firefox-ESR (Extended Support Release).

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sat Apr 22 15:26:04 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 11:26:04 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Deletions reverted
In-Reply-To: <87wpad4el0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87wpad4el0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <87inlw4g6r.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 17:48:27 -0400,
Luke Shumaker wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> - repo
> 
> - wiki

And I forgot

 - git

I'll restore from the gitlab backup later today.  It synced every 3
hours, IIRC.  The git-meta tracker ran every hour and logged the HEAD
ref, so that will help with knowing if we lost anything that happened
between the last gitlab sync and it being deleted.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Sat Apr 22 15:41:48 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:41:48 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <20170422154148.GA866@athena>

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 11:20:43AM -0400, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Someone reported via parabolaweb that Iceweasel is out of date, so I
> began to look in to how to update it (having been the original
> packager of Iceweasel when it first came to Parabola; before handing
> it off to Emulatorman).
> 
> When I first added Iceweasel, it was by mimicking ConnOS (our then
> sister distro), and imported Debian's rebranded Firefox.
> 
>   (This had the added benefit that Debian applied portability patches
>   to support architectures that Firefox upstream didn't support; this
>   was very useful when we had MIPS support)
> 
> However, ConnOS no longer exists as an Arch derivative (it shut down
> for a while, then came back as a Gentoo derivative), and Iceweasel no
> longer exists in Debian; Debian now ships proper Firefox.  I hadn't
> realized that about a year ago "Debian Iceweasel" became "Parabola
> Iceweasel" and Emulatorman began maintaning the Iceweasel patches
> outside of Debian.
> 
> Trisquel Abrowser is Trisquel's rebranded Firefox (and is distinct
> from (the former?) Ubuntu Abrowser).  It is maintained by quidam, who
> is also the maintainer of GNU IceCat.  We always had to maintain a set
> of patches *on top of* Debian's patches, to address FSDG concerns; if
> we import from Trisquel, that maintenance effort goes away.
> 
>   (I also expect this to take care of architecture-patching; Trisquel
>   inheritys from Ubuntu which inherits from Debian; but it this isn't
>   a sure thing, it is possible that we may have to still deal with
>   pathing for ARM.)
> 
> I think that it makes sense to cooperate with Trisquel, rather than
> duplicate the effort.
> 
> As for having both Abrowser and IceCat; Abrowser tracks the latest
> Firefox release, IceCat tracks Firefox-ESR (Extended Support Release).
> 

As an IceWeasel user my question is, how easy would the migration be? I
realize that lots of Parabola users have a ton of addons and settings
for IceWeasel and so on. Also, how would this affect the
`iceweasel-hardened' package? I'm pretty sure that it'll be easily
transferable, but I have little knowledge of Abrowser.

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From andreas at grapentin.org  Sat Apr 22 18:33:27 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:33:27 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <20170422154148.GA866@athena>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <20170422154148.GA866@athena>
Message-ID: <20170422183327.GA1427@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


How different are iceweasel and icecat? could we maybe drop the former
and only maintain the latter?

-A

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 05:41:48PM +0200, Nicol?s A. Ortega wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 11:20:43AM -0400, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Someone reported via parabolaweb that Iceweasel is out of date, so I
> > began to look in to how to update it (having been the original
> > packager of Iceweasel when it first came to Parabola; before handing
> > it off to Emulatorman).
> > 
> > When I first added Iceweasel, it was by mimicking ConnOS (our then
> > sister distro), and imported Debian's rebranded Firefox.
> > 
> >   (This had the added benefit that Debian applied portability patches
> >   to support architectures that Firefox upstream didn't support; this
> >   was very useful when we had MIPS support)
> > 
> > However, ConnOS no longer exists as an Arch derivative (it shut down
> > for a while, then came back as a Gentoo derivative), and Iceweasel no
> > longer exists in Debian; Debian now ships proper Firefox.  I hadn't
> > realized that about a year ago "Debian Iceweasel" became "Parabola
> > Iceweasel" and Emulatorman began maintaning the Iceweasel patches
> > outside of Debian.
> > 
> > Trisquel Abrowser is Trisquel's rebranded Firefox (and is distinct
> > from (the former?) Ubuntu Abrowser).  It is maintained by quidam, who
> > is also the maintainer of GNU IceCat.  We always had to maintain a set
> > of patches *on top of* Debian's patches, to address FSDG concerns; if
> > we import from Trisquel, that maintenance effort goes away.
> > 
> >   (I also expect this to take care of architecture-patching; Trisquel
> >   inheritys from Ubuntu which inherits from Debian; but it this isn't
> >   a sure thing, it is possible that we may have to still deal with
> >   pathing for ARM.)
> > 
> > I think that it makes sense to cooperate with Trisquel, rather than
> > duplicate the effort.
> > 
> > As for having both Abrowser and IceCat; Abrowser tracks the latest
> > Firefox release, IceCat tracks Firefox-ESR (Extended Support Release).
> > 
> 
> As an IceWeasel user my question is, how easy would the migration be? I
> realize that lots of Parabola users have a ton of addons and settings
> for IceWeasel and so on. Also, how would this affect the
> `iceweasel-hardened' package? I'm pretty sure that it'll be easily
> transferable, but I have little knowledge of Abrowser.
> 
> -- 
> Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
> https://themusicinnoise.net/
> http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
> Public PGP Key:
> https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
> http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc



> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev


-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Sat Apr 22 18:39:15 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:39:15 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <20170422183327.GA1427@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <20170422154148.GA866@athena>
 <20170422183327.GA1427@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20170422183915.GB866@athena>

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 08:33:27PM +0200, Andreas Grapentin wrote:
> 
> How different are iceweasel and icecat? could we maybe drop the former
> and only maintain the latter?
> 

Main difference, afaik, is that IceCat follows ESR while IceWeasel stays
up-to-date (although this doesn't seem to be the case recently).

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net  Sat Apr 22 19:31:54 2017
From: jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net (jc_gargma)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 12:31:54 -0700
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <20170422154148.GA866@athena>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <20170422154148.GA866@athena>
Message-ID: <2080614.prU878k6nI@iserlohn-fortress.net>

> Also, how would this affect the
> `iceweasel-hardened' package? I'm pretty sure that it'll be easily
> transferable, but I have little knowledge of Abrowser.
At it's core, the hardened package is three components:
1) Two extra prefs.js files are added to the
/usr/lib/iceweasel/browser/defaults/preferences folder.
2) firejail with a few non-default profile parameters
3) A loader script that cats the contents of the invalidly named prefs.js into 
the second prefs.js on run and blanks it on close so that users can easily 
fallback to non-restricted parameters if required.

All three are easily modified to another Firefox fork since they are so 
similar. Replace every usage of iceweasel with icecat or abrowser and it's 
pretty much done. A few preferences might not be valid, since mainline 
adds/removes/tweaks preferences nearly every release compared to ESR, but in 
large they are almost identical and the browser ignores preferences it doesn't 
support.

Personally, I ended up just placing the prefs.js manually and editing the 
/etc/firejail/icecat.local with the extra parameters to avoid how the package 
creates the prefs.js with 777 permissions.


-jc
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From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Sat Apr 22 20:35:02 2017
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:35:02 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <2080614.prU878k6nI@iserlohn-fortress.net>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <20170422154148.GA866@athena>
 <2080614.prU878k6nI@iserlohn-fortress.net>
Message-ID: <8846aa80-4b61-2cb0-27b5-56ebb8304718@openmailbox.org>

On 04/22/2017 03:31 PM, jc_gargma wrote:
>> Also, how would this affect the
>> `iceweasel-hardened' package? I'm pretty sure that it'll be easily
>> transferable, but I have little knowledge of Abrowser.
> At it's core, the hardened package is three components:
> 1) Two extra prefs.js files are added to the
> /usr/lib/iceweasel/browser/defaults/preferences folder.
> 2) firejail with a few non-default profile parameters
> 3) A loader script that cats the contents of the invalidly named prefs.js into 
> the second prefs.js on run and blanks it on close so that users can easily 
> fallback to non-restricted parameters if required.
>
> All three are easily modified to another Firefox fork since they are so 
> similar. Replace every usage of iceweasel with icecat or abrowser and it's 
> pretty much done. A few preferences might not be valid, since mainline 
> adds/removes/tweaks preferences nearly every release compared to ESR, but in 
> large they are almost identical and the browser ignores preferences it doesn't 
> support.
>
> Personally, I ended up just placing the prefs.js manually and editing the 
> /etc/firejail/icecat.local with the extra parameters to avoid how the package 
> creates the prefs.js with 777 permissions.
>
>
> -jc
>

Yes, as you mentioned it can easily be adapted to support any Firefox
version or fork.
The 777 permissions were unfortunately required for the bash script to
delete itself on shutdown and restore non-hardened settings. (I spent a
considerable amount of time  fiddling with it to find the best solution
that didn't require user interaction)

If there's a better way patches are always welcome! Please continue to
comment everything, since it helps users understand what it does. :)

In regards to aBrowser, it is lagging behind a good distance. I think
GNU Icecat (ESR) is more up-to-date than aBrowser.

There's also a coming issue in Firefox 57 which will break a large
number of addons. So far we haven't run into it, but it's expect in
November.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/old-firefox-add-ons-will-stop-working-in-firefox-57-end-of-2017/




From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sun Apr 23 00:53:49 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:53:49 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <20170422154148.GA866@athena>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <20170422154148.GA866@athena>
Message-ID: <87fuh03pwi.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 11:41:48 -0400,
Nicol?s A. Ortega wrote:
> As an IceWeasel user my question is, how easy would the migration be? I
> realize that lots of Parabola users have a ton of addons and settings
> for IceWeasel and so on.

I figure that there are 3 aspects to consider in the migration:

 1. pacman; easy just stick 'replaces=(iceweasel)' in the abrowser
    PKGBUILD

 2. executable; I figure re-training users to type 'abrowser' instead
    of 'iceweasel' isn't too bad

 3. configuration; Iceweasel stores its stuff in '~/.mozilla/firefox',
    Abrowser stores its stuff in '~/.mozilla/abrowser'.  Just renaming
    the folder should do the trick.  There might also be a thing for
    having Abrowser recognize the 'firefox' directory and move/copy it
    automatically (something similar happened back around 4.0 or 5.0,
    that mechanism might still be available).

>                          Also, how would this affect the
> `iceweasel-hardened' package? I'm pretty sure that it'll be easily
> transferable, but I have little knowledge of Abrowser.

Others in this thread have said that -hardened is just a prefs.js
change?

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 23 01:47:39 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 22:47:39 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel] marked out-of-date
In-Reply-To: <20170422142003.1103.83866@proton.parabola.nu>
References: <20170422142003.1103.83866@proton.parabola.nu>
Message-ID: <6f3deb25-1dc3-11ac-bfdb-fe4bec4fd34c@openmailbox.org>

please, do not assume that when firefox updates iceweasel too

El 22/04/17 a las 11:20, Parabola Website Notification escribi?:
> kontakt at ghaglund.se wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:
>
>
> * iceweasel 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel/
> * iceweasel 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel/
> * iceweasel-debug 1:52.0.deb1-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel-debug/
> * iceweasel-debug 1:52.0.deb1-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel-debug/
>
>
> The user provided the following additional text:
>
> Firefox 53 is available
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 23 01:55:28 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 22:55:28 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <379756fc-48f7-5fcf-01f7-a3ad1502d714@openmailbox.org>

I'm not sure about this migration. I remember that when I used 
Trisquel's abrowser, it was very buggy and many users complained (up to 
now).

I do not know if Trisquel's version is the latest, if that is the case, 
I oppose to this migration. However, it could be added to 
[libre-testing] to see how it works, and if it does well, we replace 
iceweasel with abrowser and provide some instructions for a migration of 
addons and configurations.

El 22/04/17 a las 12:20, Luke Shumaker escribi?:
> Hi all,
>
> Someone reported via parabolaweb that Iceweasel is out of date, so I
> began to look in to how to update it (having been the original
> packager of Iceweasel when it first came to Parabola; before handing
> it off to Emulatorman).
>
> When I first added Iceweasel, it was by mimicking ConnOS (our then
> sister distro), and imported Debian's rebranded Firefox.
>
>   (This had the added benefit that Debian applied portability patches
>   to support architectures that Firefox upstream didn't support; this
>   was very useful when we had MIPS support)
>
> However, ConnOS no longer exists as an Arch derivative (it shut down
> for a while, then came back as a Gentoo derivative), and Iceweasel no
> longer exists in Debian; Debian now ships proper Firefox.  I hadn't
> realized that about a year ago "Debian Iceweasel" became "Parabola
> Iceweasel" and Emulatorman began maintaning the Iceweasel patches
> outside of Debian.
>
> Trisquel Abrowser is Trisquel's rebranded Firefox (and is distinct
> from (the former?) Ubuntu Abrowser).  It is maintained by quidam, who
> is also the maintainer of GNU IceCat.  We always had to maintain a set
> of patches *on top of* Debian's patches, to address FSDG concerns; if
> we import from Trisquel, that maintenance effort goes away.
>
>   (I also expect this to take care of architecture-patching; Trisquel
>   inheritys from Ubuntu which inherits from Debian; but it this isn't
>   a sure thing, it is possible that we may have to still deal with
>   pathing for ARM.)
>
> I think that it makes sense to cooperate with Trisquel, rather than
> duplicate the effort.
>
> As for having both Abrowser and IceCat; Abrowser tracks the latest
> Firefox release, IceCat tracks Firefox-ESR (Extended Support Release).
>


From andreas at grapentin.org  Sun Apr 23 05:22:42 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 07:22:42 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <379756fc-48f7-5fcf-01f7-a3ad1502d714@openmailbox.org>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <379756fc-48f7-5fcf-01f7-a3ad1502d714@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170423052242.GA6164@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


I found at least one significant difference between abrowser and
iceweasel:

> [abrowser] is also modified so that if you install add-ons they use
> the ones on the Trisquel add-on site because the mozilla site
> encourages users to install non-free add-ons

source: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/how-abrowser-different-firefox

do we want that?

We could probably also start our own firefox-libre, cherry picking from
trisquel's patches, or maybe, seeing that nobody else seems to do it,
try and keep iceweasel up to date and have that as 'our' thing. As long
as no additional freedom issues pop up, this should just be a matter of
testing whether the patches still work from the last version, and if
not, modify them slightly. I think I could do that.

Best,

-A

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 10:55:28PM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
> I'm not sure about this migration. I remember that when I used Trisquel's
> abrowser, it was very buggy and many users complained (up to now).
> 
> I do not know if Trisquel's version is the latest, if that is the case, I
> oppose to this migration. However, it could be added to [libre-testing] to
> see how it works, and if it does well, we replace iceweasel with abrowser
> and provide some instructions for a migration of addons and configurations.
> 
> El 22/04/17 a las 12:20, Luke Shumaker escribi?:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Someone reported via parabolaweb that Iceweasel is out of date, so I
> > began to look in to how to update it (having been the original
> > packager of Iceweasel when it first came to Parabola; before handing
> > it off to Emulatorman).
> > 
> > When I first added Iceweasel, it was by mimicking ConnOS (our then
> > sister distro), and imported Debian's rebranded Firefox.
> > 
> >   (This had the added benefit that Debian applied portability patches
> >   to support architectures that Firefox upstream didn't support; this
> >   was very useful when we had MIPS support)
> > 
> > However, ConnOS no longer exists as an Arch derivative (it shut down
> > for a while, then came back as a Gentoo derivative), and Iceweasel no
> > longer exists in Debian; Debian now ships proper Firefox.  I hadn't
> > realized that about a year ago "Debian Iceweasel" became "Parabola
> > Iceweasel" and Emulatorman began maintaning the Iceweasel patches
> > outside of Debian.
> > 
> > Trisquel Abrowser is Trisquel's rebranded Firefox (and is distinct
> > from (the former?) Ubuntu Abrowser).  It is maintained by quidam, who
> > is also the maintainer of GNU IceCat.  We always had to maintain a set
> > of patches *on top of* Debian's patches, to address FSDG concerns; if
> > we import from Trisquel, that maintenance effort goes away.
> > 
> >   (I also expect this to take care of architecture-patching; Trisquel
> >   inheritys from Ubuntu which inherits from Debian; but it this isn't
> >   a sure thing, it is possible that we may have to still deal with
> >   pathing for ARM.)
> > 
> > I think that it makes sense to cooperate with Trisquel, rather than
> > duplicate the effort.
> > 
> > As for having both Abrowser and IceCat; Abrowser tracks the latest
> > Firefox release, IceCat tracks Firefox-ESR (Extended Support Release).
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From encycl at parlementum.red  Sun Apr 23 07:27:44 2017
From: encycl at parlementum.red (Charles Roth)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 00:27:44 -0700
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
In-Reply-To: <8737d168g1.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
 <8737d168g1.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <7b346be2-7fbc-6de5-f082-60e7165cbd9a@parlementum.red>

Luke,


Those are correct, but I'm permission denied for repo server.
On 04/21/2017 09:18 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 22:42:48 -0400,
> Charles Roth wrote:
>> I don't know if my credentials are still on the server. 
>>
>> Please advise,
> They should be.  Are the SSH key and PGP key here still current?
>
>     https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/tree/users/1008.yml
>

-- 
Charles Roth, MPC
Cultural Detective, Curious Antiquary, Noted Pedestrian, Amateur 
Lexicographer & Voracious Reader.

Primary email: encycl at parlementum.red
My Library: https://www.librarycat.org/lib/encycl
GPG Key: http://keybase.io/encycl
Protect your email: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/
"La mort fromage--quel dommage!"


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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Sun Apr 23 08:12:47 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 10:12:47 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <87fuh03pwi.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <20170422154148.GA866@athena>
 <87fuh03pwi.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <20170423081247.GA815@athena>

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 08:53:49PM -0400, Luke Shumaker wrote:
>  3. configuration; Iceweasel stores its stuff in '~/.mozilla/firefox',
>     Abrowser stores its stuff in '~/.mozilla/abrowser'.  Just renaming
>     the folder should do the trick.  There might also be a thing for
>     having Abrowser recognize the 'firefox' directory and move/copy it
>     automatically (something similar happened back around 4.0 or 5.0,
>     that mechanism might still be available).

This is the main thing I was wondering about. It doesn't seem like too
big of a deal but users will have to be notified.

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From adfeno at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 23 12:17:49 2017
From: adfeno at openmailbox.org (Adonay Felipe Nogueira)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 09:17:49 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> (Luke Shumaker's message of
 "Sat, 22 Apr 2017 11:20:43 -0400")
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <87pog3wc5u.fsf@openmailbox.org>

We could also replace IceWeasel with IceCat.

I *think* the add-ons page of IceCat are based on a page in Free
Software Directory.

-- 
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (n?o confundir com
  gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele n?o ? livre, por isso n?o uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
  GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard
  que est? no endere?o acima aos teus contatos.
- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
  aceito, mas n?o repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favor?veis ao
  /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de d?vida.


From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Sun Apr 23 13:21:29 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:21:29 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <87pog3wc5u.fsf@openmailbox.org>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <87pog3wc5u.fsf@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170423132129.GB815@athena>

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 09:17:49AM -0300, Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote:
> We could also replace IceWeasel with IceCat.
> 
> I *think* the add-ons page of IceCat are based on a page in Free
> Software Directory.
> 
> -- 
> - [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
> - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (n?o confundir com
>   gratis).
> - "WhatsApp"? Ele n?o ? livre, por isso n?o uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
>   GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard
>   que est? no endere?o acima aos teus contatos.
> - Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
>   aceito, mas n?o repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favor?veis ao
>   /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de d?vida.
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

What about those of us who like a modern browser? ESR often lags behind
quite a bit.

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sun Apr 23 18:54:50 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 14:54:50 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <20170423052242.GA6164@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <379756fc-48f7-5fcf-01f7-a3ad1502d714@openmailbox.org>
 <20170423052242.GA6164@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <877f2b3qf9.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 01:22:42 -0400,
Andreas Grapentin wrote:
> I found at least one significant difference between abrowser and
> iceweasel:
> 
> > [abrowser] is also modified so that if you install add-ons they use
> > the ones on the Trisquel add-on site because the mozilla site
> > encourages users to install non-free add-ons
> 
> source: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/how-abrowser-different-firefox

Because of FSDG concerns, we already apply a very similar patch that has it use
directory.fsf.org.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sun Apr 23 19:00:00 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:00:00 -0400
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
In-Reply-To: <7b346be2-7fbc-6de5-f082-60e7165cbd9a@parlementum.red>
References: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
 <8737d168g1.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <7b346be2-7fbc-6de5-f082-60e7165cbd9a@parlementum.red>
Message-ID: <874lxf3q6n.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 03:27:44 -0400,
Charles Roth wrote:
> Those are correct, but I'm permission denied for repo server.

When was the last time you tried?  There was an error that broke all
normal SSH; I fixed it Friday evening.  Is it still denying you
access?

If you are still denied, can you post the output of `ssh -vv` when
trying to get in?

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sun Apr 23 19:03:40 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:03:40 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Deletions reverted
In-Reply-To: <87inlw4g6r.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87wpad4el0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <87inlw4g6r.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <8737cz3q0j.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 11:26:04 -0400,
Luke Shumaker wrote:
> I'll restore from the gitlab backup later today.  It synced every 3
> hours, IIRC.  The git-meta tracker ran every hour and logged the HEAD
> ref, so that will help with knowing if we lost anything that happened
> between the last gitlab sync and it being deleted.

Mostly went well, but `packages/linux-libre-pck.git` is missing from
the gitlab backup.  Does anyone have a copy of it?

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Sun Apr 23 19:05:31 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:05:31 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [IMPORTANT] What happened to some images in ParabolaWiki?
In-Reply-To: <15a92733-1398-46a3-0715-d53a53b319b8@gnu.org>
References: <b027afe3-579f-df8b-7c32-e60107195aa4@openmailbox.org>
 <58F69D56.4050500@ceata.org> <58F88F81.5050408@ceata.org>
 <20170420083935.7720c3c9@riseup.net>
 <15a92733-1398-46a3-0715-d53a53b319b8@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <871ssj3pxg.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:44:53 -0400,
hellekin wrote:
> More importantly, everybody should stop acting like there's a war going
> on, and that there are bad people and good people.  AFAIC I can only see
> good people acting like bad people.  The emotional charge in this
> situation is very high and venting it pointing fingers is the last thing
> we should do.  When I wrote 'brat behavior', I wasn't expecting people
> to start shooting at each other, but wanted to pinpoint the immaturity
> with which this whole process was mishandled.  I was certainly upset,
> because of the hard work many here put into the project and setting up
> fiscal sponsorship to facilitate it; yet, for some reason probably
> linked to what some mentioned regarding the affect of money, the
> communication flow broke.  Let's not make the mistake to crystallize
> this frustrated affect into enemy figures.  As Quiliro wrote, there are
> better things to do than argue. Also, everyone should make an effort to
> understand the shock and sadness of everyone else, and use compassion
> rather than accusation as a medium to handle this situation with dignity.

+1


From ebrasca.ebrasca at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 23 23:39:28 2017
From: ebrasca.ebrasca at openmailbox.org (Bruno Cichon)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 01:39:28 +0200
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <43bd87a9-f392-e937-88b7-1ab3977d256c@gnu.org.pe> (Omar Vega
 Ramos's message of "Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:24:03 -0500")
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
 <43bd87a9-f392-e937-88b7-1ab3977d256c@gnu.org.pe>
Message-ID: <87tw5eg0cv.fsf@openmailbox.org>

Omar Vega Ramos <ovruni at gnu.org.pe> writes:

>>> I don't know about those devices, since it weren't donated for coadde or
>>> me. I suggest ask about who was the donor for further details.
>> 
>> I disagree. You have publicly declared this donation on the wiki:
>> 
>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Donations&type=revision&diff=18507&oldid=18504
>> 
>> You need to tell the community who has the BBB, SD cards and the rest of
>> accessories. If the donor is not reachable, it doesn't mean you can keep
>> a secret about this donation *you* have declared.
>
> I have donations from Ebrasca. Stop releasing your poison to Emulatorman
> by these accessories.

I have donated it to ovruni because he need it to work for parabola.


From encycl at parlementum.red  Mon Apr 24 01:49:48 2017
From: encycl at parlementum.red (Charles Roth)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 18:49:48 -0700
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
In-Reply-To: <874lxf3q6n.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
 <8737d168g1.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <7b346be2-7fbc-6de5-f082-60e7165cbd9a@parlementum.red>
 <874lxf3q6n.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <4fcf49ea-a25a-cb3f-c3b7-b0f7fad3b52f@parlementum.red>

Here you go:
https://share.riseup.net/#SO6kNmr0oDRy8y10bKgmYw


On 04/23/2017 12:00 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 03:27:44 -0400,
> Charles Roth wrote:
>> Those are correct, but I'm permission denied for repo server.
> When was the last time you tried?  There was an error that broke all
> normal SSH; I fixed it Friday evening.  Is it still denying you
> access?
>
> If you are still denied, can you post the output of `ssh -vv` when
> trying to get in?
>

-- 
Charles Roth, MPC
Cultural Detective, Curious Antiquary, Noted Pedestrian, Amateur 
Lexicographer & Voracious Reader.

Primary email: encycl at parlementum.red
My Library: https://www.librarycat.org/lib/encycl
GPG Key: http://keybase.io/encycl
Protect your email: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/
"La mort fromage--quel dommage!"


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From heckyel at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 15:58:58 2017
From: heckyel at openmailbox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Jes=c3=bas_Eduardo?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:58:58 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Request to become a packager
Message-ID: <b7b84148-3cab-08bb-7802-a6ca7029c949@openmailbox.org>

Hello dear friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre distribution, 

I really love your work, because of that, I want to contribute and maintenance of the operating system.

The requirements are written here:

Fingerprit: 916F FBC7 6D2E 641B A416  BA53 364F 4E14 8344 6AC5
key GPG in keys.gnupg.net: 0x8E42B7AD85DB8221
My GPG Key is: 916FFBC76D2E641BA416BA53364F4E1483446AC5


Best regards. Have a good day.

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From heckyel at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 20 17:01:26 2017
From: heckyel at openmailbox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Jes=c3=bas_Eduardo?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:01:26 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Request to become a packager
In-Reply-To: <b7b84148-3cab-08bb-7802-a6ca7029c949@openmailbox.org>
References: <b7b84148-3cab-08bb-7802-a6ca7029c949@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <5f04773b-c048-1e58-f355-0942c786e35d@openmailbox.org>

Hello dear friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre distribution, 

I really love your work, because of that, I want to contribute and maintenance of the operating system.

The requirements are written here:

Fingerprit: 916F FBC7 6D2E 641B A416  BA53 364F 4E14 8344 6AC5
key GPG in keys.gnupg.net: 0x8E42B7AD85DB8221
My GPG Key is: 916FFBC76D2E641BA416BA53364F4E1483446AC5


Best regards. Have a good day.


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From andreas at grapentin.org  Fri Apr 21 07:22:27 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:22:27 +0200
Subject: [Dev] I want to become a parabola hacker!
In-Reply-To: <20170421071951.GA10616@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
 <d0768461-b0c9-d381-39e4-aca352648c78@openmailbox.org>
 <20170421071951.GA10616@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20170421072227.GA14080@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


missing attachments....

(this is probably going to happen fairly often, I apologize in advance)

-A

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 09:19:51AM +0200, Andreas Grapentin wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> please find attached a profile and a (somewhat) recent, if slightly
> derpy picture of my face.
> 
> as for which role to take - I think it might make sense to start with
> something simpler, until I learn the ropes. I'm open to suggestions
> here, since you probably know better than me where the fires need to be
> put out first, but I was thinking along the lines of starting to
> maintain a couple of -libre packages and then later starting to do some
> work on libretools / packaging infrastructure things.
> 
> Does that sound reasonable?
> 
> Best,
> Andreas
> 
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 02:15:47PM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
> > Excellent! these are good news. Which rols to you want to take? or you
> > prefer us to choose it for you?
> > 
> > Then send us your ssh key and sign, and optionally a profile of you
> > and a photo, see this example[0]
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Megver83
> > 
> > [0]
> > https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/plain/users/1036.yml?id=2b0612a4d5f5
> > 268c55e258a41cc84d153226ec72
> > 
> > El 20/04/17 a las 14:05, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> > > 
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > 
> > > I would like to step in and volunteer to become a parabola hacker, 
> > > and help maintain infrastructure and packages. I think it's time 
> > > for me to step in and do some actual work for the project :)
> > > 
> > > Some info on me to back up my application:
> > > 
> > > - you might know me as 'oaken-source' from IRC - I donated and 
> > > maintain mirror.grapentin.org, the (currently only) german
> > > parabola mirror - before migrating to parabola, I have been using
> > > arch for longer than I can remember; I maintain a couple of desktop
> > > parabola installs now, as well as 2 dedicated servers running
> > > parabola - I maintain a private parabola package repo for
> > > miscellaneous stuff, and have some experience with writing
> > > PKGBUILDs, building packages from source, and using libretools - I
> > > have tons of experience in writing C / python / bash code, and to a
> > > slightly lesser extent in many other programming languages - I have
> > > a M.Sc. in Software Engineering from the University of Potsdam,
> > > mainly focused on system software and operating systems - I am
> > > currently doing my PhD in operating systems and middleware at the
> > > same university - this is my github profile (slightly out of date;
> > > I only just recently adopted the FSF endorsed terminology, some
> > > projects might sill say "open source" all over them):
> > > https://github.com/oaken-source/ - I strongly dislike ruby and
> > > perl.
> > > 
> > > I hope you will allow me to make myself useful :)
> > > 
> > > Best, Andreas
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> > > Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> > > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
> > XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
> > Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
> > Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
> > GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
> > GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
> > Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dev mailing list
> > Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
> -- 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev


-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
---
username: oaken-source
fullname: Andreas Grapentin
email:
- andreas at grapentin.org
groups:
- hackers
pgp_keyid: BFA8008A8265677063B11BF47171986E4B745536
ssh_keys:
  andreas at grapentin.org: ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAADAQABAAABAQCuXyvHi+T65YJ8bM3RQGNsxLlHHM5IG/T53MPznXBAaUqvexLzKiXEvh52uR1Kd6jQ3khNbb3CF2QpGwH/uK+YBoKHwur9PPoEp7ZeEH7nTmWKbOKLSxRp9QgtcBANby8K9Jo3wMHbU8AFN8W7BrlT4/oAPs82jpPnfyuBmDAkW4jl0IEy5X6sdaSlGifLgo+d4rzrpyNXPQYSmEQOp3pHwaN/e7AB9NjHtoLn30d7oMUgbLNdUgdk+LptR8fvhxHeJLNRxYCwDPQgpkokNYmlEx+eCHgJaGVcEPeXqRp9xjtMa/WfWrgDtRDdTQh8Lsm+eNNLDXukR0JPj7lAMl0x
shell: "/bin/bash"
extra:
  other_contact: Freenode:oaken-source
  roles: Parabola Hacker
  occupation: Student
  yob: 1989
  location: Potsdam, Germany
  languages: English, German
  interests: Software Engineering, Operating Sytems, Horsemanship
  favorite_distros: Parabola GNU/Linux-libre, LFS, GNU/Minix (someday...)
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Mon Apr 24 03:26:56 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:26:56 -0400
Subject: [Dev] SRS test
Message-ID: <87tw5e32pr.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

This is a test.

If this goes out on the list, then it can be assumed that the
@parabola.nu email aliases now correctly do SRS, so they won't be
rejected if you have SPF.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker



From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Mon Apr 24 03:50:44 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:50:44 -0400
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
In-Reply-To: <4fcf49ea-a25a-cb3f-c3b7-b0f7fad3b52f@parlementum.red>
References: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
 <8737d168g1.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <7b346be2-7fbc-6de5-f082-60e7165cbd9a@parlementum.red>
 <874lxf3q6n.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <4fcf49ea-a25a-cb3f-c3b7-b0f7fad3b52f@parlementum.red>
Message-ID: <87r30i31m3.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 21:49:48 -0400,
Charles Roth wrote:
> [1  <text/plain; windows-1252 (quoted-printable)>]
> Here you go:
> https://share.riseup.net/#SO6kNmr0oDRy8y10bKgmYw

That shows you trying to log in as 'cer'; on the server you are
'encyclomundi'.  Would you like it changed to cer (I think you were
cer several servers ago :P )?

For uploading packages, librerelease needs to log in as 'repo' (this
should be the default in libretools.conf).

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From encycl at parlementum.red  Mon Apr 24 04:26:19 2017
From: encycl at parlementum.red (Charles Roth)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 21:26:19 -0700
Subject: [Dev] I'm willing to start packaging again
In-Reply-To: <87r30i31m3.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <j4gu5l42i25lnft1mp1chqcd.1492742568631@email.android.com>
 <8737d168g1.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <7b346be2-7fbc-6de5-f082-60e7165cbd9a@parlementum.red>
 <874lxf3q6n.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <4fcf49ea-a25a-cb3f-c3b7-b0f7fad3b52f@parlementum.red>
 <87r30i31m3.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <66960dcb-2661-bda0-4400-fd7c3c2d67f1@parlementum.red>

I changed user to repo in my .ssh/config, and I'm in.

So I'll look for a simple package to update and see what happens.

Thanks for your help!

On 04/23/2017 08:50 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 21:49:48 -0400,
> Charles Roth wrote:
>> [1  <text/plain; windows-1252 (quoted-printable)>]
>> Here you go:
>> https://share.riseup.net/#SO6kNmr0oDRy8y10bKgmYw
> That shows you trying to log in as 'cer'; on the server you are
> 'encyclomundi'.  Would you like it changed to cer (I think you were
> cer several servers ago :P )?
>
> For uploading packages, librerelease needs to log in as 'repo' (this
> should be the default in libretools.conf).
>

-- 
Charles Roth, MPC
Cultural Detective, Curious Antiquary, Noted Pedestrian, Amateur 
Lexicographer & Voracious Reader.

Primary email: encycl at parlementum.red
My Library: https://www.librarycat.org/lib/encycl
GPG Key: http://keybase.io/encycl
Protect your email: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/
"La mort fromage--quel dommage!"


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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Mon Apr 24 13:20:26 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:20:26 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <87shkyj61x.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> writes:
> I think that it makes sense to cooperate with Trisquel, rather than
> duplicate the effort.
>
> As for having both Abrowser and IceCat; Abrowser tracks the latest
> Firefox release, IceCat tracks Firefox-ESR (Extended Support Release).

latest abrowser from trisquel[0] is 38 though :P

we would have to check if the patches for abrowser still apply to the
current version (52!)

what's the less work intensive route to an up to date mozilla browser?

[0]: http://packages.trisquel.info/search?suite=all&searchon=names&keywords=abrowser

-- 
:D
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 13:48:13 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:48:13 -0300
Subject: [Dev] If you are having problems with "David P.
 <megver83@openmailbox.org>" keys
Message-ID: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi, for some reason my key became untrusted (at least for me), so if
you are also having that problem, here's what I did to solve it

$ sudo pacman-key --refresh-keys
$ sudo pacman -S parabola-keyring

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbbnEtPDYwNxDLPbkInynxVayungFAlj+AhkACgkQInynxVay
uniqwAf+OlIAEzUyTXiLRl2dNKMtBqEC6/WoX2WXjcw77hFqSXEP2LOv9hDgiO5A
KHqFmPc2ED4dQXKVSCuQaiNOqAATGF1wlCMZDQCm7AjKtwn75kn9bdBYJjxwftha
kXXooGi19OtA7avHKZV9lj3FFGusyZgNiD4C02n7gkT9JIa15gjNekjf0Vu1nfme
5M2em80IZNzW9/9+HiL36DcRC0KdWxoI+6thA8HElFMd2jzLPr60V89NLhA0wH9N
0/tciAaN2XzOLB0TgPwNbfxJNLc7wMdPHBXgwQrVBB3mtxChXK5+LTiGWd5hi+ia
HhdA+nnbrHfPpXSOWkKcQF08Vcbe4Q==
=g66T
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Apr 24 13:57:02 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:57:02 +0000
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <87shkyj61x.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <87shkyj61x.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <e15a1c0d-73d7-67b3-52bf-ac6c8dd4b5eb@riseup.net>

On 04/24/2017 01:20 PM, fauno wrote:
> what's the less work intensive route to an up to date mozilla browser?

You can continue use iceweasel from AUR [0], since i'm maintaining it yet.

[0]:https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/iceweasel/

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Apr 24 14:00:01 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:00:01 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Deletions reverted
In-Reply-To: <8737cz3q0j.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87wpad4el0.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <87inlw4g6r.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> <8737cz3q0j.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <63f572cd-43f9-8e3c-222b-682096cf27d9@riseup.net>

On 04/23/2017 07:03 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 11:26:04 -0400,
> Luke Shumaker wrote:
>> I'll restore from the gitlab backup later today.  It synced every 3
>> hours, IIRC.  The git-meta tracker ran every hour and logged the HEAD
>> ref, so that will help with knowing if we lost anything that happened
>> between the last gitlab sync and it being deleted.
> 
> Mostly went well, but `packages/linux-libre-pck.git` is missing from
> the gitlab backup.  Does anyone have a copy of it?
> 

There's a copy from coadde's github that i'm maintaining from there yet [0].

[0]:https://github.com/coadde/linux-libre-pck

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 14:11:00 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:11:00 -0300
Subject: [Dev] If you are having problems with "David P.
 <megver83@openmailbox.org>" keys
In-Reply-To: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
References: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <abe59e51-4d56-30f4-d015-728e867256bf@openmailbox.org>

Well, if that doesn't solve the issue, see
https://forum.manjaro.org/t/invalid-or-corrupted-package-pgp-signature/324/3

El 24/04/17 a las 10:48, Megver83 escribi?:
> Hi, for some reason my key became untrusted (at least for me), so
> if you are also having that problem, here's what I did to solve it
> 
> $ sudo pacman-key --refresh-keys $ sudo pacman -S parabola-keyring
> 
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 14:18:07 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:18:07 -0300
Subject: [Dev] If you are having problems with "David P.
 <megver83@openmailbox.org>" keys
In-Reply-To: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
References: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <0f2f17dd-9e75-feb0-3965-8fe984f76f47@openmailbox.org>

Last thing, this wiki page is very useful

https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys

Before running any of those commands, edit /etc/pacman.conf and
replace the line that says

SigLevel    = Required DatabaseOptional

to:

SigLevel    = Never

And replace always "manjaro" with "parabola", and after doing all
that, set SigLevel to Required DatabaseOptional as it was in the
beginning.

El 24/04/17 a las 10:48, Megver83 escribi?:
> Hi, for some reason my key became untrusted (at least for me), so
> if you are also having that problem, here's what I did to solve it
> 
> $ sudo pacman-key --refresh-keys $ sudo pacman -S parabola-keyring
> 
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 14:24:40 2017
From: mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com (Bill Auger)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:24:40 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <e15a1c0d-73d7-67b3-52bf-ac6c8dd4b5eb@riseup.net>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <87shkyj61x.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <e15a1c0d-73d7-67b3-52bf-ac6c8dd4b5eb@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD3PP04SgjfB3KnYMsE=CD+HkO5L_fYD6L-O0YiUDGCXgJqL+Q@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for preserving iceweasel

otherwise i wil note that abrowser in the trisquel8 release candidate
is v52.0.2 - the pre-packaging prep script can be read here
https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/blob/belenos/helpers/make-firefox

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> wrote:
> On 04/24/2017 01:20 PM, fauno wrote:
>> what's the less work intensive route to an up to date mozilla browser?
>
> You can continue use iceweasel from AUR [0], since i'm maintaining it yet.
>
> [0]:https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/iceweasel/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 14:28:36 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:28:36 -0300
Subject: [Dev] I want to become a parabola hacker!
In-Reply-To: <20170421072227.GA14080@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <20170420170539.GA4074@parabola-pocket>
 <d0768461-b0c9-d381-39e4-aca352648c78@openmailbox.org>
 <20170421071951.GA10616@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <20170421072227.GA14080@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <10bb2401-7096-75bf-043b-b89f1104c53c@openmailbox.org>

OK, I can add your key to parabola-keyring so you can start packaging,
but first you need that 3 devs sign you (I think I already said, but
anyway). You can ask them on IRC to do it. I already signed you.

For now, I'm adding your profile and photo to hackers.git
If you want to appear on
https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/
and/or
https://www.parabola.nu/people/support-staff/
you should ask lukeshu to do it, also ask him to give you the dev
credentials to log in to https://www.parabola.nu/login/

Cheers!
Megver83.

El 21/04/17 a las 04:22, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> 
> missing attachments....
> 
> (this is probably going to happen fairly often, I apologize in
> advance)
> 
> -A
> 
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 09:19:51AM +0200, Andreas Grapentin wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> please find attached a profile and a (somewhat) recent, if
>> slightly derpy picture of my face.
>> 
>> as for which role to take - I think it might make sense to start
>> with something simpler, until I learn the ropes. I'm open to
>> suggestions here, since you probably know better than me where
>> the fires need to be put out first, but I was thinking along the
>> lines of starting to maintain a couple of -libre packages and
>> then later starting to do some work on libretools / packaging
>> infrastructure things.
>> 
>> Does that sound reasonable?
>> 
>> Best, Andreas
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 02:15:47PM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
>>> Excellent! these are good news. Which rols to you want to take?
>>> or you prefer us to choose it for you?
>>> 
>>> Then send us your ssh key and sign, and optionally a profile of
>>> you and a photo, see this example[0]
>>> 
>>> Regards, Megver83
>>> 
>>> [0] 
>>> https://git.parabola.nu/hackers.git/plain/users/1036.yml?id=2b0612a4d5f5
>>>
>>> 
268c55e258a41cc84d153226ec72
>>> 
>>> El 20/04/17 a las 14:05, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to step in and volunteer to become a parabola
>>>> hacker, and help maintain infrastructure and packages. I
>>>> think it's time for me to step in and do some actual work for
>>>> the project :)
>>>> 
>>>> Some info on me to back up my application:
>>>> 
>>>> - you might know me as 'oaken-source' from IRC - I donated
>>>> and maintain mirror.grapentin.org, the (currently only)
>>>> german parabola mirror - before migrating to parabola, I have
>>>> been using arch for longer than I can remember; I maintain a
>>>> couple of desktop parabola installs now, as well as 2
>>>> dedicated servers running parabola - I maintain a private
>>>> parabola package repo for miscellaneous stuff, and have some
>>>> experience with writing PKGBUILDs, building packages from
>>>> source, and using libretools - I have tons of experience in
>>>> writing C / python / bash code, and to a slightly lesser
>>>> extent in many other programming languages - I have a M.Sc.
>>>> in Software Engineering from the University of Potsdam, 
>>>> mainly focused on system software and operating systems - I
>>>> am currently doing my PhD in operating systems and middleware
>>>> at the same university - this is my github profile (slightly
>>>> out of date; I only just recently adopted the FSF endorsed
>>>> terminology, some projects might sill say "open source" all
>>>> over them): https://github.com/oaken-source/ - I strongly
>>>> dislike ruby and perl.
>>>> 
>>>> I hope you will allow me to make myself useful :)
>>>> 
>>>> Best, Andreas
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing
>>>> list Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org 
>>> Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363 Tox: megver83 at toxme.io GPG:
>>> 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78 GNUSocial:
>>> @megver82 at quitter.cl Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID) 
>>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing
>>> list Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> 
my GPG Public Key:
https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 15:28:33 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:28:33 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel
 Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <CAD3PP04SgjfB3KnYMsE=CD+HkO5L_fYD6L-O0YiUDGCXgJqL+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <87shkyj61x.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <e15a1c0d-73d7-67b3-52bf-ac6c8dd4b5eb@riseup.net>
 <CAD3PP04SgjfB3KnYMsE=CD+HkO5L_fYD6L-O0YiUDGCXgJqL+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60417bc5-824e-8fcf-d159-deaab33fec60@openmailbox.org>

+1 for iceweasel.

El 24/04/17 a las 11:24, Bill Auger escribi?:
> +1 for preserving iceweasel
> 
> otherwise i wil note that abrowser in the trisquel8 release
> candidate is v52.0.2 - the pre-packaging prep script can be read
> here 
> https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/blob/belenos/helpers/make-firefox
>
>  On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Andr? Silva
> <emulatorman at riseup.net> wrote:
>> On 04/24/2017 01:20 PM, fauno wrote:
>>> what's the less work intensive route to an up to date mozilla
>>> browser?
>> 
>> You can continue use iceweasel from AUR [0], since i'm
>> maintaining it yet.
>> 
>> [0]:https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/iceweasel/
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From nobody at parabola.nu  Mon Apr 24 15:58:51 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:58:51 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel-l10n-es-ar] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170424155851.1102.20504@proton.parabola.nu>

eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* iceweasel-l10n-ach 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ach/
* iceweasel-l10n-af 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-af/
* iceweasel-l10n-an 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-an/
* iceweasel-l10n-ar 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ar/
* iceweasel-l10n-as 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-as/
* iceweasel-l10n-ast 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ast/
* iceweasel-l10n-az 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-az/
* iceweasel-l10n-bg 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-bg/
* iceweasel-l10n-bn-bd 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-bn-bd/
* iceweasel-l10n-bn-in 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-bn-in/
* iceweasel-l10n-br 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-br/
* iceweasel-l10n-bs 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-bs/
* iceweasel-l10n-ca 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ca/
* iceweasel-l10n-cak 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-cak/
* iceweasel-l10n-cs 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-cs/
* iceweasel-l10n-cy 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-cy/
* iceweasel-l10n-da 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-da/
* iceweasel-l10n-de 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-de/
* iceweasel-l10n-dsb 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-dsb/
* iceweasel-l10n-el 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-el/
* iceweasel-l10n-en-gb 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-en-gb/
* iceweasel-l10n-en-us 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-en-us/
* iceweasel-l10n-en-za 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-en-za/
* iceweasel-l10n-eo 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-eo/
* iceweasel-l10n-es-ar 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-es-ar/
* iceweasel-l10n-es-cl 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-es-cl/
* iceweasel-l10n-es-es 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-es-es/
* iceweasel-l10n-es-mx 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-es-mx/
* iceweasel-l10n-et 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-et/
* iceweasel-l10n-eu 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-eu/
* iceweasel-l10n-fa 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-fa/
* iceweasel-l10n-ff 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ff/
* iceweasel-l10n-fi 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-fi/
* iceweasel-l10n-fr 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-fr/
* iceweasel-l10n-fy-nl 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-fy-nl/
* iceweasel-l10n-ga-ie 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ga-ie/
* iceweasel-l10n-gd 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-gd/
* iceweasel-l10n-gl 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-gl/
* iceweasel-l10n-gn 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-gn/
* iceweasel-l10n-gu-in 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-gu-in/
* iceweasel-l10n-he 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-he/
* iceweasel-l10n-hi-in 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-hi-in/
* iceweasel-l10n-hr 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-hr/
* iceweasel-l10n-hsb 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-hsb/
* iceweasel-l10n-hu 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-hu/
* iceweasel-l10n-hy-am 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-hy-am/
* iceweasel-l10n-id 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-id/
* iceweasel-l10n-is 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-is/
* iceweasel-l10n-it 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-it/
* iceweasel-l10n-ja 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ja/
* iceweasel-l10n-kk 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-kk/
* iceweasel-l10n-km 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-km/
* iceweasel-l10n-kn 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-kn/
* iceweasel-l10n-ko 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ko/
* iceweasel-l10n-lij 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-lij/
* iceweasel-l10n-lt 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-lt/
* iceweasel-l10n-lv 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-lv/
* iceweasel-l10n-mai 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-mai/
* iceweasel-l10n-mk 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-mk/
* iceweasel-l10n-ml 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ml/
* iceweasel-l10n-mr 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-mr/
* iceweasel-l10n-ms 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ms/
* iceweasel-l10n-nb-no 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-nb-no/
* iceweasel-l10n-nl 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-nl/
* iceweasel-l10n-nn-no 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-nn-no/
* iceweasel-l10n-or 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-or/
* iceweasel-l10n-pa-in 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-pa-in/
* iceweasel-l10n-pl 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-pl/
* iceweasel-l10n-pt-br 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-pt-br/
* iceweasel-l10n-pt-pt 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-pt-pt/
* iceweasel-l10n-rm 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-rm/
* iceweasel-l10n-ro 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ro/
* iceweasel-l10n-ru 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ru/
* iceweasel-l10n-si 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-si/
* iceweasel-l10n-sk 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-sk/
* iceweasel-l10n-sl 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-sl/
* iceweasel-l10n-son 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-son/
* iceweasel-l10n-sq 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-sq/
* iceweasel-l10n-sr 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-sr/
* iceweasel-l10n-sv-se 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-sv-se/
* iceweasel-l10n-ta 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ta/
* iceweasel-l10n-te 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-te/
* iceweasel-l10n-th 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-th/
* iceweasel-l10n-tr 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-tr/
* iceweasel-l10n-uk 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-uk/
* iceweasel-l10n-uz 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-uz/
* iceweasel-l10n-vi 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-vi/
* iceweasel-l10n-xh 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-xh/
* iceweasel-l10n-zh-cn 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-zh-cn/
* iceweasel-l10n-zh-tw 1:52.0.2.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-zh-tw/


The user provided the following additional text:

Please wait until the official release of Firefox 53 on Debian SID repo. Actually, the changelog warns about the early upgrade of Firefox in the unstable repo.

http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/f/firefox/firefox_53.0.is.52.0.2-1_changelog

However, I can suggest that this message should be posted on the AUR page.

Thanks.



From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Apr 24 16:35:34 2017
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 16:35:34 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel-l10n-es-ar] marked
 out-of-date
In-Reply-To: <20170424155851.1102.20504@proton.parabola.nu>
References: <20170424155851.1102.20504@proton.parabola.nu>
Message-ID: <082c1821-c925-cb02-a1c8-0faa617485e9@riseup.net>

On 04/24/2017 03:58 PM, Parabola Website Notification wrote:
> The user provided the following additional text:
> 
> Please wait until the official release of Firefox 53 on Debian SID repo. Actually, the changelog warns about the early upgrade of Firefox in the unstable repo.
> 
> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/f/firefox/firefox_53.0.is.52.0.2-1_changelog
> 
> However, I can suggest that this message should be posted on the AUR page.

I've upgraded it [0] from the firefox_53.0.is.53.0-1 version that is the
Firefox 53 on Debian repo [1]. Anyway, thanks for let me know.

[0]:https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/.SRCINFO?h=iceweasel#n59
[1]:https://packages.qa.debian.org/f/firefox/news/20170419T223908Z.html


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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 16:44:32 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:44:32 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel-l10n-es-ar] marked
 out-of-date
In-Reply-To: <082c1821-c925-cb02-a1c8-0faa617485e9@riseup.net>
References: <20170424155851.1102.20504@proton.parabola.nu>
 <082c1821-c925-cb02-a1c8-0faa617485e9@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <75da6a0c-40b7-b500-535c-1f7040ec7ddc@openmailbox.org>

Added to my packages TODO list

El 24/04/17 a las 13:35, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> On 04/24/2017 03:58 PM, Parabola Website Notification wrote:
>> The user provided the following additional text:
>> 
>> Please wait until the official release of Firefox 53 on Debian
>> SID repo. Actually, the changelog warns about the early upgrade
>> of Firefox in the unstable repo.
>> 
>> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/f/firefox/firefox_53.0.is.52.0.2-1_changelog
>>
>>
>> 
However, I can suggest that this message should be posted on the AUR page.
> 
> I've upgraded it [0] from the firefox_53.0.is.53.0-1 version that
> is the Firefox 53 on Debian repo [1]. Anyway, thanks for let me
> know.
> 
> [0]:https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/.SRCINFO?h=iceweasel#n59
>
> 
[1]:https://packages.qa.debian.org/f/firefox/news/20170419T223908Z.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 17:53:30 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:53:30 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Updated parabola-keyring to 20170424
Message-ID: <e257b6d7-5c87-34fd-1419-ca1839786331@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi everyone, I just released parabola-keyring 20170424, in which the 2
new hacker's keys were added

Jes?s and Andreas: Welcome! from now on you can start packaging.
Everyone else in the Parabola community it's invited to participate in
the development team. Your profiles will be added to
https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/
https://www.parabola.nu/people/support-staff/
soon, maybe lukeshu can it

Test your SSH, after following the steps here
https://wiki.parabola.nu/Package_maintainer_guide#Configure_SSH
run:
$ ssh repo at repo
it should ask for your password. If it fails, feel free to contact us
in the mailing list or in IRC (also GNUSocial!)

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbbnEtPDYwNxDLPbkInynxVayungFAlj+O5cACgkQInynxVay
uniV6ggAltGWkkR8/b7tENtKtdEnpP/QPjiXp/kZM67ATeT//18RUGYRAUK3GZoa
wnBYx/5dBMDj/GMyFJITtyhJ1p2l5AbLrphHw3tsWOgrHcZV9vEloQGFYIma03qO
Lrz1kLCXqjnXbQ/lBtuoRFwW8LaH/RABa4crF6riPcEDdZeq9TOpobQTw+c6/pqZ
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 18:28:38 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:28:38 -0300
Subject: [Dev] what if we let the autobuilder to compile the kernels?
Message-ID: <60327349-b1dc-9d72-d138-518800bf8614@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi lukeshu,
is the autobuilder already compiling packages? I saw some commits made
by it. We could set it up to compile linux-libre{-lts,-pck,-apparmor,
etc} every time the variables in the PKGBUILD from abslibre change
(e.g. pkgver, pkgrel, etc), so we can save HH for compiling it.
Maybe we could also have a plain text file where wi put the pkgnames
to be autobuilt every time there's a new commit or modification on a
package from abslibre.

what do u think? or do you have another plans for the autobuilder?

thanks in advance :D

P.S.: Please, add the 2 new hacker's profiles in the web. Thanks again.

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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=GD0a
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From sebasped at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 18:30:29 2017
From: sebasped at openmailbox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?G=2E_Sebasti=C3=A1n_Pedersen?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:30:29 -0300
Subject: [Dev] If you are having problems with "David P.
 <megver83@openmailbox.org>" keys
In-Reply-To: <0f2f17dd-9e75-feb0-3965-8fe984f76f47@openmailbox.org>
References: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
 <0f2f17dd-9e75-feb0-3965-8fe984f76f47@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <06db863c3cc7b5edcdfa1409513ce196@openmailbox.org>

On 24-04-2017 11:18 AM, Megver83 wrote:
> Last thing, this wiki page is very useful
> 
> https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys
> 
> Before running any of those commands, edit /etc/pacman.conf and
> replace the line that says
> 
> SigLevel    = Required DatabaseOptional
> 
> to:
> 
> SigLevel    = Never
> 
> And replace always "manjaro" with "parabola", and after doing all
> that, set SigLevel to Required DatabaseOptional as it was in the
> beginning.
> 


Thanks, I was having this issue and that fixed.


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 18:37:53 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:37:53 -0300
Subject: [Dev] If you are having problems with "David P.
 <megver83@openmailbox.org>" keys
In-Reply-To: <06db863c3cc7b5edcdfa1409513ce196@openmailbox.org>
References: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
 <0f2f17dd-9e75-feb0-3965-8fe984f76f47@openmailbox.org>
 <06db863c3cc7b5edcdfa1409513ce196@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <f8a9a0cf-8fc3-9a6e-d070-97a621e13d64@openmailbox.org>

good to know my friend ;)

El 24/04/17 a las 15:30, G. Sebasti?n Pedersen escribi?:
> On 24-04-2017 11:18 AM, Megver83 wrote:
>> Last thing, this wiki page is very useful
>>
>> https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys
>>
>>
>> Before running any of those commands, edit /etc/pacman.conf and
>> replace the line that says
>>
>> SigLevel    = Required DatabaseOptional
>>
>> to:
>>
>> SigLevel    = Never
>>
>> And replace always "manjaro" with "parabola", and after doing all
>> that, set SigLevel to Required DatabaseOptional as it was in the
>> beginning.
>>
> 
> 
> Thanks, I was having this issue and that fixed.

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Mon Apr 24 20:38:54 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:38:54 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <87h91dk0bl.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org> writes:
> i put them all here:
>
> https://pad.kefir.red/p/ParabolaPackages
>
> i put my name on the ones i can maintain

ping

-- 
http://partidopirata.com.ar
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 20:43:34 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:43:34 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Packagers] We have to distribute the maintenance of
 hacker fellows' packages
In-Reply-To: <87h91dk0bl.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <0f438946-27ba-ab7f-6a2d-64d5abc6bb1c@openmailbox.org>
 <87pog7xfcb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <6887af3f-7b19-376a-7c43-16c26d0ea2a6@openmailbox.org>
 <1492737309.27662.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <87h91hx40p.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87h91dk0bl.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <019a6b6e-8a92-8879-1ec9-568fbe3986e9@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

El 24/04/17 a las 17:38, fauno escribi?:
> fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org> writes:
>> i put them all here:
>> 
>> https://pad.kefir.red/p/ParabolaPackages
>> 
>> i put my name on the ones i can maintain
> 
> ping

pong

> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 21:15:57 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:15:57 -0300
Subject: [Dev] what if we let the autobuilder to compile the kernels?
Message-ID: <44b3aacf-129f-5c05-8597-428679515b03@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi lukeshu,
is the autobuilder already compiling packages? I saw some commits made
by it. We could set it up to compile linux-libre{-lts,-pck,-apparmor,
etc} every time the variables in the PKGBUILD from abslibre change (e.g.
pkgver, pkgrel, etc), so we can save hour

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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=iVxt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net  Mon Apr 24 21:39:42 2017
From: jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net (jc_gargma)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:39:42 -0700
Subject: [Dev] If you are having problems with "David P.
 <megver83@openmailbox.org>" keys
In-Reply-To: <0f2f17dd-9e75-feb0-3965-8fe984f76f47@openmailbox.org>
References: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
 <0f2f17dd-9e75-feb0-3965-8fe984f76f47@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <4696407.i6sbML0pGg@iserlohn-fortress.net>

> SigLevel    = Never

With respect, installing without a valid signature doesn't sit well with me, 
especially when combined with refreshing gnupg keys over http.

I took a roundabout route to ensure signature enforcement:
1) Update the /etc/pacman.d/gnupg/gpg.conf to use 
hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net
2) Create /etc/pacman.d/gnupg/dirmngr.conf and add
hkp-cacert /usr/share/gnupg/sks-keyservers.netCA.pem
to it.
3) sudo pacman-keyring --refresh-keys
4) sudo pacman -S parabola-keyring
5) sigterm no longer required root processes for gpg-agent and dirmngr


-jc
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From mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 22:01:20 2017
From: mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com (Bill Auger)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:01:20 -0400
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
Message-ID: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>

it should be addressed that the status and future of the arm port are
completely in the air at the moment - it has been suggested that arm
support be dropped for lack of a user-base - but i had to note that
the EOMA68 libre-tea card are promised to ship with parabola
pre-installed so it would be reasonable to support arm even if only
for that device


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Mon Apr 24 22:17:35 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:17:35 -0300
Subject: [Dev] If you are having problems with "David P.
 <megver83@openmailbox.org>" keys
In-Reply-To: <4696407.i6sbML0pGg@iserlohn-fortress.net>
References: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
 <0f2f17dd-9e75-feb0-3965-8fe984f76f47@openmailbox.org>
 <4696407.i6sbML0pGg@iserlohn-fortress.net>
Message-ID: <87bmrljvr4.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

jc_gargma <jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net> writes:

>> SigLevel    = Never
>
> With respect, installing without a valid signature doesn't sit well with me, 
> especially when combined with refreshing gnupg keys over http.
>
> I took a roundabout route to ensure signature enforcement:
> 1) Update the /etc/pacman.d/gnupg/gpg.conf to use 
> hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net
> 2) Create /etc/pacman.d/gnupg/dirmngr.conf and add
> hkp-cacert /usr/share/gnupg/sks-keyservers.netCA.pem
> to it.

i was going to say we already did that but when gnupg 2.1 broke hkps we
rolled it back to hkp.  if it's working now we should change it back to
hkps :)

> 3) sudo pacman-keyring --refresh-keys
> 4) sudo pacman -S parabola-keyring
> 5) sigterm no longer required root processes for gpg-agent and dirmngr

some time ago we were including a cronjob that did this for you.  now i
see we're providing a systemd service and timer to run refresh-keys, so
it should be:

    systemctl restart pacman-keyring.service # for manual refresh
    systemctl enable pacman-keyring.timer    # for weekly refreshes

-- 
:O
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From jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net  Mon Apr 24 22:41:16 2017
From: jc_gargma at iserlohn-fortress.net (jc_gargma)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:41:16 -0700
Subject: [Dev] If you are having problems with "David P.
 <megver83@openmailbox.org>" keys
In-Reply-To: <87bmrljvr4.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
 <4696407.i6sbML0pGg@iserlohn-fortress.net>
 <87bmrljvr4.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <1535724.CUVz2DIJj0@iserlohn-fortress.net>

> i was going to say we already did that but when gnupg 2.1 broke hkps we
> rolled it back to hkp.  if it's working now we should change it back to
> hkps :)
Since GnuPG 2.1.20, if no keyserver is set, the keyserver will default to 
hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net using the included pem
or hkp://jirk5u4osbsr34t5.onion if called with --use-tor

I just tried refreshing pacman-keyring with no keyserver or hkp-cacert set, 
and it called 
hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net
correctly.

It's mainly remembering to terminate dirmngr and gpg-agent after changing any 
gnupg .conf files to apply the changes.

> some time ago we were including a cronjob that did this for you.  now i
> see we're providing a systemd service and timer to run refresh-keys, so
> it should be:
> 
>     systemctl restart pacman-keyring.service # for manual refresh
>     systemctl enable pacman-keyring.timer    # for weekly refreshes
I see those now. Thanks. ^_^


-jc
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Mon Apr 24 23:55:31 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 20:55:31 -0300
Subject: [Dev] If you are having problems with "David P.
 <megver83@openmailbox.org>" keys
In-Reply-To: <4696407.i6sbML0pGg@iserlohn-fortress.net>
References: <0e0d9e05-8ac7-435b-fac2-8207510ad493@openmailbox.org>
 <0f2f17dd-9e75-feb0-3965-8fe984f76f47@openmailbox.org>
 <4696407.i6sbML0pGg@iserlohn-fortress.net>
Message-ID: <9602f50d-ec90-a60a-31ec-93b51ee9bc08@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

The SigLevel    = Never option has to be set temporally, because the
problem is with my key, and parabola-keyring latest version was
compiled with my key!

After following the steps I gave, you *have* to set it up to Require
DatabaseOptional again.

regards,
Megver83.

El 24/04/17 a las 18:39, jc_gargma escribi?:
>> SigLevel    = Never
> 
> With respect, installing without a valid signature doesn't sit well
> with me, especially when combined with refreshing gnupg keys over
> http.
> 
> I took a roundabout route to ensure signature enforcement: 1)
> Update the /etc/pacman.d/gnupg/gpg.conf to use 
> hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net 2) Create
> /etc/pacman.d/gnupg/dirmngr.conf and add hkp-cacert
> /usr/share/gnupg/sks-keyservers.netCA.pem to it. 3) sudo
> pacman-keyring --refresh-keys 4) sudo pacman -S parabola-keyring 5)
> sigterm no longer required root processes for gpg-agent and
> dirmngr
> 
> 
> -jc
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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=cIZl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 25 01:01:37 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 01:01:37 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [icecat-l10n-es-ar] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170425010137.1103.26162@proton.parabola.nu>

eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* icecat-l10n-ach 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ach/
* icecat-l10n-af 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-af/
* icecat-l10n-an 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-an/
* icecat-l10n-ar 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ar/
* icecat-l10n-as 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-as/
* icecat-l10n-ast 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ast/
* icecat-l10n-az 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-az/
* icecat-l10n-be 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-be/
* icecat-l10n-bg 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-bg/
* icecat-l10n-bn-bd 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-bn-bd/
* icecat-l10n-bn-in 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-bn-in/
* icecat-l10n-br 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-br/
* icecat-l10n-bs 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-bs/
* icecat-l10n-ca 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ca/
* icecat-l10n-cs 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-cs/
* icecat-l10n-cy 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-cy/
* icecat-l10n-da 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-da/
* icecat-l10n-de 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-de/
* icecat-l10n-dsb 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-dsb/
* icecat-l10n-el 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-el/
* icecat-l10n-en-gb 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-en-gb/
* icecat-l10n-en-za 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-en-za/
* icecat-l10n-eo 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-eo/
* icecat-l10n-es-ar 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-es-ar/
* icecat-l10n-es-cl 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-es-cl/
* icecat-l10n-es-es 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-es-es/
* icecat-l10n-es-mx 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-es-mx/
* icecat-l10n-et 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-et/
* icecat-l10n-eu 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-eu/
* icecat-l10n-fa 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-fa/
* icecat-l10n-ff 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ff/
* icecat-l10n-fi 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-fi/
* icecat-l10n-fr 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-fr/
* icecat-l10n-fy-nl 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-fy-nl/
* icecat-l10n-ga-ie 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ga-ie/
* icecat-l10n-gd 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-gd/
* icecat-l10n-gl 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-gl/
* icecat-l10n-gn 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-gn/
* icecat-l10n-gu-in 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-gu-in/
* icecat-l10n-he 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-he/
* icecat-l10n-hi-in 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-hi-in/
* icecat-l10n-hr 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-hr/
* icecat-l10n-hsb 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-hsb/
* icecat-l10n-hu 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-hu/
* icecat-l10n-hy-am 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-hy-am/
* icecat-l10n-id 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-id/
* icecat-l10n-is 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-is/
* icecat-l10n-it 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-it/
* icecat-l10n-ja 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ja/
* icecat-l10n-kk 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-kk/
* icecat-l10n-km 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-km/
* icecat-l10n-kn 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-kn/
* icecat-l10n-ko 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ko/
* icecat-l10n-lij 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-lij/
* icecat-l10n-lt 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-lt/
* icecat-l10n-lv 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-lv/
* icecat-l10n-mai 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-mai/
* icecat-l10n-mk 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-mk/
* icecat-l10n-ml 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ml/
* icecat-l10n-mr 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-mr/
* icecat-l10n-ms 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ms/
* icecat-l10n-nb-no 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-nb-no/
* icecat-l10n-nl 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-nl/
* icecat-l10n-nn-no 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-nn-no/
* icecat-l10n-or 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-or/
* icecat-l10n-pa-in 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-pa-in/
* icecat-l10n-pl 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-pl/
* icecat-l10n-pt-br 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-pt-br/
* icecat-l10n-pt-pt 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-pt-pt/
* icecat-l10n-rm 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-rm/
* icecat-l10n-ro 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ro/
* icecat-l10n-ru 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ru/
* icecat-l10n-si 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-si/
* icecat-l10n-sk 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-sk/
* icecat-l10n-sl 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-sl/
* icecat-l10n-son 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-son/
* icecat-l10n-sq 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-sq/
* icecat-l10n-sr 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-sr/
* icecat-l10n-sv-se 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-sv-se/
* icecat-l10n-ta 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-ta/
* icecat-l10n-te 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-te/
* icecat-l10n-th 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-th/
* icecat-l10n-tr 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-tr/
* icecat-l10n-uk 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-uk/
* icecat-l10n-uz 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-uz/
* icecat-l10n-vi 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-vi/
* icecat-l10n-xh 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-xh/
* icecat-l10n-zh-cn 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-zh-cn/
* icecat-l10n-zh-tw 45.7.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/icecat-l10n-zh-tw/


The user provided the following additional text:

Please update GNU IceCat to the latest version (52.0.2), which has been released in April 15th.

The binaries and source code are avariable on the official GNU Repo.

http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gnuzilla/52.0.2/



From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Tue Apr 25 02:12:02 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:12:02 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Forward: Re: [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of
 Triquel Abrowser
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <809f2849-7c22-eea7-1fbf-5f6731013a10@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87mvb52q31.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

don't forget to CC the list!

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From: eliotime3000 <eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org>
Subject: Re: [Dev] [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor of Triquel Abrowser
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 20:18:32 -0500
Size: 6298
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From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Tue Apr 25 04:36:14 2017
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 23:36:14 -0500
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
In-Reply-To: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
NotDashEscaped: You need gpg to verify this message

Le lun. 24 avril 2017 ? 17:01, Bill Auger a ?crit :
 > it should be addressed that the status and future of the arm port are
 > completely in the air at the moment

they are, but probably not for the reasons you might think.

the website paused reporting on updates to arm on Feb 04, but they had
been arriving smoothly behind the scenes until a couple weeks ago,
when I lost the ability to compile on a half-decent machine. I've been
slowly trying to regain ground, pushing some overdue packages as I
write, but it's become clear that my laptop can't keep up with the
task. adding to the grievance, I no longer use any arm devices. maybe
it's time for others to step in?

 > i had to note that the EOMA68 libre-tea card are promised to ship 
with
 > parabola pre-installed so it would be reasonable to support arm even
 > if only for that device

this is what frightens me the most, the idea of hundreds of users
being greeted with a distro that was already dead by the time they
receive their devices. I even bought a card, but if the port can't be
maintained so be it. maybe I will be able to revive the effort using
that very EOMA68 card, supposing that won't be much more unpleasant
than doing qemu on the build machine I used to use.

also, not that you asked but, I would refuse to receive
Parabola-sponsored hardware after seeing all the recent hassle;
although I wouldn't mind being invited to use a hypothetical build
server under other hackers' responsibility.

-- 
Isaac David
GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943

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From andreas at grapentin.org  Tue Apr 25 04:59:16 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 06:59:16 +0200
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
In-Reply-To: <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <20170425045916.GA22896@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


are you saying that currently the main issue is lack of compute resources?

-A

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:36:14PM -0500, Isaac David wrote:
> Le lun. 24 avril 2017 ? 17:01, Bill Auger a ?crit :
>  > it should be addressed that the status and future of the arm port are
>  > completely in the air at the moment
> 
> they are, but probably not for the reasons you might think.
> 
> the website paused reporting on updates to arm on Feb 04, but they had
> been arriving smoothly behind the scenes until a couple weeks ago,
> when I lost the ability to compile on a half-decent machine. I've been
> slowly trying to regain ground, pushing some overdue packages as I
> write, but it's become clear that my laptop can't keep up with the
> task. adding to the grievance, I no longer use any arm devices. maybe
> it's time for others to step in?
> 
>  > i had to note that the EOMA68 libre-tea card are promised to ship 
> with
>  > parabola pre-installed so it would be reasonable to support arm even
>  > if only for that device
> 
> this is what frightens me the most, the idea of hundreds of users
> being greeted with a distro that was already dead by the time they
> receive their devices. I even bought a card, but if the port can't be
> maintained so be it. maybe I will be able to revive the effort using
> that very EOMA68 card, supposing that won't be much more unpleasant
> than doing qemu on the build machine I used to use.
> 
> also, not that you asked but, I would refuse to receive
> Parabola-sponsored hardware after seeing all the recent hassle;
> although I wouldn't mind being invited to use a hypothetical build
> server under other hackers' responsibility.
> 
> -- 
> Isaac David
> GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Tue Apr 25 05:19:56 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 01:19:56 -0400
Subject: [Dev] autobuilder
Message-ID: <87d1c1njwj.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Hi all,

I've installed autobuilder[1] on winston, and enabled it for:

 - blacklist.git->libre/your-freedom
 - hackers.git->libre/parabola-keyring

[1]: https://git.parabola.nu/server/autobuilder.git/

For those who weren't arround back in the days of rshg082 (one of the
previous servers; back when we didn't believe in practical server
names), here's how autobuilder does:

 - On a git repository, you set up a post-recieve hook telling it the
   name of a package ("libre/your-freedom"), and the files in that
   repository that when updated need to trigger an update to the
   package ("blacklist.txt").


 - When you push a change to those files in that git repository,
   autobuilder will look at the most recent git commit to touch those
   files, and use that to update a few variables in the PKGBUILD of
   the named package:

    * "pkgver" : The current date, with an optional ".N" suffix if
                 there are multiple versions in one day

    * "pkgrel" : Reset to "1"

    * "_gitver" : The git commit hash

    * "*sums" : It runs `updpkgsums`

 - Then, it builds the the package with `sudo libremakepkg`.  It used
   to use `makepkg -c`, as it was designed for really simple packages;
   but these days dbscripts rejects packages not built in a chroot.

Currently, there is no way to make autobuilder run in response to a
PKGBUILD being changed in abslibre.git.  And you wouldn't want it to:
We don't want to have the kind of resource usage of builting a kernel
happening on the server.

Autobuilder is designed for the simple packages.  It has no notion of
dependencies, build order, caching, parallelism, et c.  It isn't
adequate as a general build server.  That will have to come later.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Tue Apr 25 13:04:47 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:04:47 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Forward: Re: [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor
 of Triquel Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <87mvb52q31.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <809f2849-7c22-eea7-1fbf-5f6731013a10@openmailbox.org>
 <87mvb52q31.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <ef8f8dd0-b184-59fc-c3aa-d18a07196f5c@openmailbox.org>

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I can confirm this, at least point n?1, as emulatorman still keeps it
in AUR, we just have to move it to abslibre.git and compile.

El 24/04/17 a las 23:12, eliotime3000 escribi?:
> OK. I'm using ABrowser on Trisquel, and let me tell you some stuff 
> related to this Firefox fork:
> 
> 1.- Abrowser does have a broken system with Firefox Sync service.
> For those that want to migrate from Firefox to Iceweasel, this
> issue is annoying.
> 
> 2.- Abrowser is having some performance issues in the multiprocess 
> (a.k.a. "Electrolysis"). By the way, the most logical way to use
> an alternative to Firefox is still fork the Debian edition of
> Firefox into Iceweasel, due to  the Debian edition of Firefox
> optimizes many of the source code for porting into plattaforms that
> are not exclusively x86 (i686 and x86_64).
> 
> 3.- Abrowser actually is updated into the 52.0.2 version. However,
> the Parabola version of Iceweasel is based on the Debian version of
> Firefox release, which is in the unstable branch of Debian that
> keeps up-to-date the Firefox version.

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Tue Apr 25 13:27:15 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:27:15 -0300
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
In-Reply-To: <20170425045916.GA22896@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <20170425045916.GA22896@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <877f28k47g.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Andreas Grapentin <andreas at grapentin.org> writes:

> are you saying that currently the main issue is lack of compute
> resources?

if we were to have a clear understanding of to whom the hardware belongs
and responsibilities, we could write to the libretea people and ask for
a few as donations.  we did this with yeloongs (one was stolen and the
other died) a few years ago.

as far as i recall the process was the following:

* vendor said they could give us 2 yeloongs as donations

* people on this list proposed who they think should get them

* we voted and xihh and myself got them, under the promise it would be
  used to work on the mips64el (i looked it on the list archive but it
  starts on september 2011 and this was previous to this time...)

* we received them as donations, though i had to pay for customs ($1100
  ARS which at the time were... ~200 USD iirc).  i don't remember if
  xihh had to pay?

i guess we should add a way to retrieve them if the hacker is unable to
continue working.

also, in my experience with mips64el, porting a whole distro is really
tiresome (i was spending whole days doing only packaging until we wrote
`dagpkg` and abslibre.git stabilized enough not to produce constant
build errors), so we either distribute the work or we automate it.

maybe the hordes (?) of people getting eoma's is a good opportunity to
distribute this workload?

what do you think?

-- 
https://lainventoria.com.ar/
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From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 25 13:43:50 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:43:50 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [kio] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170425134350.1101.56201@proton.parabola.nu>

pejakm at autistici.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* kio 5.30.0-1.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/kio/
* kio 5.32.0-2.parabola2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/kio/
* kio 5.32.0-2.parabola2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/kio/


The user provided the following additional text:

5.33.0



From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Tue Apr 25 14:37:26 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:37:26 -0400
Subject: [Dev] handling the OpenSSL 1.0->1.1 upgrade
Message-ID: <87bmrko8nt.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

Hi all,

Yesterday, Arch cut over from openssl 1.0 to openssl 1.1, and added
the "openssl-1.0" package for packages that really do need 1.0 and
can't be upgraded to 1.1.

Anyway, I expect that most packages linked against openssl in [libre]
and [pcr] need to be recompiled.  There's a decent chance that a given
user won't notice the breakage, as there's a decent chance that
they'll have something that depends on openssl-1.0.

I've already recompiled pacman, as that is a pretty critical thing to
break.

I appologize that I'm not producing a list of all packages that need
recompiled; I will be traveling.  I may be available tonight.

db-check-package-libraries was designed for the purpose of identifying
these packages, but it appears to not be working.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Tue Apr 25 15:07:58 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:07:58 -0400
Subject: [Dev] handling the OpenSSL 1.0->1.1 upgrade
In-Reply-To: <87bmrko8nt.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <87bmrko8nt.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <878tmoo78x.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:37:26 -0400,
Luke Shumaker wrote:
> db-check-package-libraries was designed for the purpose of identifying
> these packages, but it appears to not be working.

It seems to have to do with crashing when it sees a dangling symlink.
I've monkey-patched it on the server to turn abolute links into
relative links.

However, it still crashes when it encounters a symlink that points to
a file in another package.

And I needed to walk out the door 8 minutes ago, so someone else will
need to figure this out.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 16:19:11 2017
From: mr.j.spam.me at gmail.com (Bill Auger)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:19:11 -0400
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
Message-ID: <CAD3PP06VQfZtKS2FDcT7wso2b0qnAkKu0GuGofpkpWCg+ajnrw@mail.gmail.com>

> also, not that you asked but,

actually i sort of did ask - when i brought this up on the IRC
yesterday - fauno suggested that this should be discussed on the
mailing list

i added myself and oaken-source to the etherpad as potential arm
packagers as there is presumably much work to be done and little time
- but i say "potential" because i do not have an arm device to test on
- oaken-source has only a raspberry which as i understand requires
blobs to boot but perhaps could run arch to verify packages - simply
cross-compiling and hoping stuff works is clearly not optimal so it
does seem that someone should acquire one of the EOMA devices,
preferably before they are released publicly


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Tue Apr 25 16:42:38 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:42:38 -0300
Subject: [Dev] libre/ruby
Message-ID: <87tw5cigld.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>


hey!  i'm the new packager of ruby for parabola and i found you provided
the patch to change json on ruby.  the patches are for a json version
that's 4 years old and you link to a repo on gitorius... have you been
maintaining this?  otherwise can you explain what you did?  :)

https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/674

ps: ha!, just opened the gitorius url and found gitweb :P

-- 
https://endefensadelsl.org/
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From andreas at grapentin.org  Tue Apr 25 16:25:06 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 18:25:06 +0200
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
In-Reply-To: <877f28k47g.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <20170425045916.GA22896@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <877f28k47g.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <20170425162506.GA12087@parabola-pocket.localdomain>



If getting EOMA cards ahead of time is an option, I would approve of
that. It would give us some headway in getting the port in shape.
Alternatively, I have a handful of raspberrypi SoCs idle around here,
which we could use as build slaves if necessary.

I agree that a lot of the process could, and definitely should, probably
be automated.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 10:27:15AM -0300, fauno wrote:
> Andreas Grapentin <andreas at grapentin.org> writes:
> 
> > are you saying that currently the main issue is lack of compute
> > resources?
> 
> if we were to have a clear understanding of to whom the hardware belongs
> and responsibilities, we could write to the libretea people and ask for
> a few as donations.  we did this with yeloongs (one was stolen and the
> other died) a few years ago.
> 
> as far as i recall the process was the following:
> 
> * vendor said they could give us 2 yeloongs as donations
> 
> * people on this list proposed who they think should get them
> 
> * we voted and xihh and myself got them, under the promise it would be
>   used to work on the mips64el (i looked it on the list archive but it
>   starts on september 2011 and this was previous to this time...)
> 
> * we received them as donations, though i had to pay for customs ($1100
>   ARS which at the time were... ~200 USD iirc).  i don't remember if
>   xihh had to pay?
> 
> i guess we should add a way to retrieve them if the hacker is unable to
> continue working.
> 
> also, in my experience with mips64el, porting a whole distro is really
> tiresome (i was spending whole days doing only packaging until we wrote
> `dagpkg` and abslibre.git stabilized enough not to produce constant
> build errors), so we either distribute the work or we automate it.
> 
> maybe the hordes (?) of people getting eoma's is a good opportunity to
> distribute this workload?
> 
> what do you think?
> 
> -- 
> https://lainventoria.com.ar/



> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev


-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
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From andreas at grapentin.org  Tue Apr 25 17:11:00 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 19:11:00 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Forward: Re: [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor
 of Triquel Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <ef8f8dd0-b184-59fc-c3aa-d18a07196f5c@openmailbox.org>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <809f2849-7c22-eea7-1fbf-5f6731013a10@openmailbox.org>
 <87mvb52q31.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <ef8f8dd0-b184-59fc-c3aa-d18a07196f5c@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170425171100.GA22217@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


I started working about that - I'm not a fan of just copying the
pkgbuild, but it looks (almost) straightforwand to integrate the changes
to the new version.

I'll try and get an updated pkgbuild ready today.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 10:04:47AM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
> I can confirm this, at least point n?1, as emulatorman still keeps it
> in AUR, we just have to move it to abslibre.git and compile.
> 
> El 24/04/17 a las 23:12, eliotime3000 escribi?:
> > OK. I'm using ABrowser on Trisquel, and let me tell you some stuff 
> > related to this Firefox fork:
> > 
> > 1.- Abrowser does have a broken system with Firefox Sync service.
> > For those that want to migrate from Firefox to Iceweasel, this
> > issue is annoying.
> > 
> > 2.- Abrowser is having some performance issues in the multiprocess 
> > (a.k.a. "Electrolysis"). By the way, the most logical way to use
> > an alternative to Firefox is still fork the Debian edition of
> > Firefox into Iceweasel, due to  the Debian edition of Firefox
> > optimizes many of the source code for porting into plattaforms that
> > are not exclusively x86 (i686 and x86_64).
> > 
> > 3.- Abrowser actually is updated into the 52.0.2 version. However,
> > the Parabola version of Iceweasel is based on the Debian version of
> > Firefox release, which is in the unstable branch of Debian that
> > keeps up-to-date the Firefox version.
> 
> -- 
> SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
> XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
> Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
> GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
> GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
> Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Tue Apr 25 17:26:32 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:26:32 -0300
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
In-Reply-To: <20170425162506.GA12087@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <20170425045916.GA22896@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <877f28k47g.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <20170425162506.GA12087@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <87r30giek7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Andreas Grapentin <andreas at grapentin.org> writes:

> If getting EOMA cards ahead of time is an option, I would approve of
> that. It would give us some headway in getting the port in shape.
> Alternatively, I have a handful of raspberrypi SoCs idle around here,
> which we could use as build slaves if necessary.
>
> I agree that a lot of the process could, and definitely should,
> probably be automated.

no need to use them as build machines, you can have a cross-toolchain on
a more powerful machine and launch libremakepkg + distcc from an arm
board.

it would be awesome if libretools could cross-build packages without the
need of a native board, like openwrt does.

-- 
 D
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Tue Apr 25 17:48:02 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:48:02 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Forward: Re: [RFC] Deprecate Parabola Iceweasel in favor
 of Triquel Abrowser
In-Reply-To: <20170425171100.GA22217@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <87k26c4gfo.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <809f2849-7c22-eea7-1fbf-5f6731013a10@openmailbox.org>
 <87mvb52q31.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <ef8f8dd0-b184-59fc-c3aa-d18a07196f5c@openmailbox.org>
 <20170425171100.GA22217@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <c85ea2e4-1c71-4094-255d-000e26d6c42c@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

thanks, also upgrade it for ARM and the iceweasel-l10n pkgbase please.

El 25/04/17 a las 14:11, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> 
> I started working about that - I'm not a fan of just copying the 
> pkgbuild, but it looks (almost) straightforwand to integrate the 
> changes to the new version.
> 
> I'll try and get an updated pkgbuild ready today.
> 
> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 10:04:47AM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
>> I can confirm this, at least point n?1, as emulatorman still 
>> keeps it in AUR, we just have to move it to abslibre.git and 
>> compile.
>> 
>> El 24/04/17 a las 23:12, eliotime3000 escribi?:
>>> OK. I'm using ABrowser on Trisquel, and let me tell you some 
>>> stuff related to this Firefox fork:
>>> 
>>> 1.- Abrowser does have a broken system with Firefox Sync 
>>> service. For those that want to migrate from Firefox to 
>>> Iceweasel, this issue is annoying.
>>> 
>>> 2.- Abrowser is having some performance issues in the 
>>> multiprocess (a.k.a. "Electrolysis"). By the way, the most 
>>> logical way to use an alternative to Firefox is still fork the 
>>> Debian edition of Firefox into Iceweasel, due to  the Debian 
>>> edition of Firefox optimizes many of the source code for 
>>> porting into plattaforms that are not exclusively x86 (i686
>>> and x86_64).
>>> 
>>> 3.- Abrowser actually is updated into the 52.0.2 version. 
>>> However, the Parabola version of Iceweasel is based on the 
>>> Debian version of Firefox release, which is in the unstable 
>>> branch of Debian that keeps up-to-date the Firefox version.
>> 
>> -- SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org Tox: 
>> megver83 at toxme.io GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78 GNUSocial: 
>> @megver83 at quitter.cl Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID) 
>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list
>>  Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 25 19:09:28 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 19:09:28 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [kdepim-runtime] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170425190928.1073.71190@proton.parabola.nu>

pejakm at autistici.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* kdepim-runtime 16.12.3-1.parabola2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/kdepim-runtime/
* kdepim-runtime 16.12.3-1.parabola2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/kdepim-runtime/


The user provided the following additional text:

KDE applications 17.04.0



From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 25 23:08:45 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 23:08:45 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [unar] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170425230845.1073.38963@proton.parabola.nu>

megver83 at parabola.nu wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* unar 1.10.1-3 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/unar/
* unar 1.10.1-3 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/unar/
* unar 1.10.1-3 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/unar/


The user provided the following additional text:

version 3.11.1 released, anyway this package was outdated long ago
http://unarchiver.c3.cx/changes



From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Wed Apr 26 00:24:18 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 21:24:18 -0300
Subject: [Dev] libre/ruby
In-Reply-To: <87tw5cigld.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <87tw5cigld.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <87d1c0hv7x.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org> writes:

> hey!  i'm the new packager of ruby for parabola and i found you provided
> the patch to change json on ruby.  the patches are for a json version
> that's 4 years old and you link to a repo on gitorius... have you been
> maintaining this?  otherwise can you explain what you did?  :)
>
> https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/674
>
> ps: ha!, just opened the gitorius url and found gitweb :P

niitotantei answered that the patches aren't maintained, but also that
debian has been informed of this issue too.  debian asked upstream and
they send them upstream to json, where niitotantei also asked about the
license and the maintainer said this would be looked at... but nothing
happened.

they also say the code under the unfree license is now under a bsd
license, but no one is changing the terms on the file either.  no one
seems to think is that bad.  maybe we can send this as a patch.

i was just reading the oj gem is a drop in replacement for the json gem
and it's faster, so if it is free, maybe we can replace it on our ruby?
i would have to check if it can be aliased to json.

meanwhile i upgraded ruby to 2.4.1 with pure ruby json 1.8.1 bundled

refs:

* http://www.ohler.com/oj/index.html
* https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=798680
* https://github.com/flori/json/blob/master/ext/json/ext/generator/generator.c
* https://github.com/flori/json/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue%20license

-- 
}(:=
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From dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 03:04:28 2017
From: dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com (Dika SP)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 10:04:28 +0700
Subject: [Dev] Goodbye Parabola
In-Reply-To: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAKpbLobezhx7_FqGoXTOnQT4fCXztfUhTtAApoK1_17=4bSxtw@mail.gmail.com>

Rabu, 19 April 2017, Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> menulis:

> Hi guys, after a few days thinking about it and for personal reasons,
> i've decided to say Goodbye.
>
> It's a very hard decision for me, but i'm feeling that my cicle ended
> here to begin a new one.
>
> Around 2010/2011, i've known this distro thank to Quiliro who suggested
> me choose a free distro endorsed by the FSF. In Parabola, i found a cool
> community that was adhocratic and democratic in its essence, i've
> learned a lot of things such as edit articles in the wiki, packaging,
> create isos, make conferences/interviews, etc.
>
> I met fauno and alfplayer in person and a lot of users and devs around
> the world from the cyberspace thank to Parabola. In short, i'm very
> grateful for these greatest moments in my live that Parabola gave me. I
> never forget it, even if we could have differences of opinion, culture,
> religion, etc. I'm very grateful to the users that always believe in me,
> even to continue in Parabola as maintainer.
>
> I've decided dedicate my life to my family and friends for now. If
> someone would get in touch with me, just send a personal email or
> looking for me at another freenode channels related to the Free Software
> Movement, since i'm unsubscribing here.
>
> Regards and thanks for all,
> Andr?.
>
>
Goodbye Andre. you had been great and kind developer, I and other parabola
user will miss u :_(
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Wed Apr 26 03:46:53 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 23:46:53 -0400
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
In-Reply-To: <87r30giek7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <20170425045916.GA22896@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <877f28k47g.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <20170425162506.GA12087@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <87r30giek7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <874lxbomoi.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:26:32 -0400,
fauno wrote:
> it would be awesome if libretools could cross-build packages without the
> need of a native board, like openwrt does.

It can.  Install 'binfmt-qemu-static' and specify '-A armv7h' when
creating the chroot.

(ok, this uses qemu to run ARM binaries on x86, while openwrt uses a
cross toolchain and doesn't run ARM binaries during the build)

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke shumaker


From andreas at grapentin.org  Wed Apr 26 04:39:42 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 06:39:42 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [unar] marked out-of-date
In-Reply-To: <20170425230845.1073.38963@proton.parabola.nu>
References: <20170425230845.1073.38963@proton.parabola.nu>
Message-ID: <20170426043942.GA24001@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


looking here:
http://unarchiver.c3.cx/commandline

it seems that unar is the latest version (1.10.1). the changelog you
linked seems to be for a different tool.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 11:08:45PM -0000, Parabola Website Notification wrote:
> megver83 at parabola.nu wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:
> 
> 
> * unar 1.10.1-3 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/unar/
> * unar 1.10.1-3 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/unar/
> * unar 1.10.1-3 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/unar/
> 
> 
> The user provided the following additional text:
> 
> version 3.11.1 released, anyway this package was outdated long ago
> http://unarchiver.c3.cx/changes
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Wed Apr 26 13:16:45 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 10:16:45 -0300
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
In-Reply-To: <874lxbomoi.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <20170425045916.GA22896@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <877f28k47g.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <20170425162506.GA12087@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <87r30giek7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <874lxbomoi.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <87a873ia0y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> writes:

> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:26:32 -0400,
> fauno wrote:
>> it would be awesome if libretools could cross-build packages without the
>> need of a native board, like openwrt does.
>
> It can.  Install 'binfmt-qemu-static' and specify '-A armv7h' when
> creating the chroot.
>
> (ok, this uses qemu to run ARM binaries on x86, while openwrt uses a
> cross toolchain and doesn't run ARM binaries during the build)

he, i meant the latter :P

-- 
.o?)
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From dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 13:38:25 2017
From: dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com (Dika SP)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:38:25 +0700
Subject: [Dev] [warning] latest gnome 3.24 upgrade can cause error,
 cant login into gnome
Message-ID: <CAKpbLoZKb1mKDw+uz5ezk3vDZAaoiD_k3BiWMvVMgWjSQerEgg@mail.gmail.com>

 For user who cant login into gnome anymore after upgrading to 3.24, also
if your gdm becomes blinking blank. in case that just like me

 Im doing some research and found out that these problematic packages in
extra repo:
1.gnome-session-3.24-1-1-x86_64
2.gdm-3.24-1-1-x86_64
3.libgdm-3.24.1-1-x86-_64
 Has a bug that can cause segmentation fault with gtk3, therefore you will
kicked back to login screen or your gdm becomes broke, downgrading those to
3.22 will fix everything

 Reproduce:
1.install those package
2.reboot
3.test login to gnome
4.see your system log

 Other gnome upgrade just run fine and you still can use those newest gnome
apps, I suggest to put this warning on parabola news if many user has been
affected too

 Btw my status:
1.asus u36sd laptop
2.parabola linux-libre-4.10.12_gnu-2.x86_64
3.run on ssd drive
4.gnome 3.24-1
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From lukeshu at lukeshu.com  Wed Apr 26 15:21:45 2017
From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 11:21:45 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [unar] marked out-of-date
In-Reply-To: <20170426043942.GA24001@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <20170425230845.1073.38963@proton.parabola.nu>
 <20170426043942.GA24001@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <871ssfnqie.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:39:42 -0400,
Andreas Grapentin wrote:
> [1  <multipart/signed (7bit)>]
> [1.1  <text/plain; us-ascii (quoted-printable)>]
> 
> looking here:
> http://unarchiver.c3.cx/commandline
> 
> it seems that unar is the latest version (1.10.1). the changelog you
> linked seems to be for a different tool.

Indeed, The Unarchiver is a GUI tool for macOS; unar is a
cross-platform CLI variant of it; they are versioned separately.

(/me wonders how difficult it would be to get the GUI working with
GNUstep.)

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr 26 15:25:52 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 12:25:52 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [unar] marked out-of-date
In-Reply-To: <871ssfnqie.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
References: <20170425230845.1073.38963@proton.parabola.nu>
 <20170426043942.GA24001@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <871ssfnqie.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
Message-ID: <41678693-0538-4b09-91f4-61724d8798b6@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

In fact I was having an issue with a GNUStep lib that unar required,
which is from an older version, and solved it by symlinking the new
lib with the old lib name and dir.

El 26/04/17 a las 12:21, Luke Shumaker escribi?:
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:39:42 -0400, Andreas Grapentin wrote:
>> [1  <multipart/signed (7bit)>] [1.1  <text/plain; us-ascii
>> (quoted-printable)>]
>> 
>> looking here: http://unarchiver.c3.cx/commandline
>> 
>> it seems that unar is the latest version (1.10.1). the changelog
>> you linked seems to be for a different tool.
> 
> Indeed, The Unarchiver is a GUI tool for macOS; unar is a 
> cross-platform CLI variant of it; they are versioned separately.
> 
> (/me wonders how difficult it would be to get the GUI working with 
> GNUstep.)
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From raphael.melotte at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 16:09:51 2017
From: raphael.melotte at gmail.com (raphael.melotte at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:09:51 +0200
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
In-Reply-To: <20170425162506.GA12087@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <20170425045916.GA22896@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <877f28k47g.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <20170425162506.GA12087@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <05401921-48D4-41C0-A1F2-F427330700F4@gmail.com>



On April 25, 2017 6:25:06 PM GMT+02:00, Andreas Grapentin <andreas at grapentin.org> wrote:
>
>
>If getting EOMA cards ahead of time is an option, I would approve of
>that. It would give us some headway in getting the port in shape.

If you ask I'm sure you or anyone interested could obtain a prototype before the final versions are shipped to the crowdfunding backers, if you dedicate it to improving the ARM port on Parabola.
This was talked about on the arm-netbook mailing list, I can cc it if you want.


From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 16:13:12 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:13:12 +0100
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
In-Reply-To: <87a873ia0y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <CAD3PP06TX0ZA3rXbx05gBXEWe8Vk=TsaLpmFGX0kQstAn84EpA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1493094974.16848.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <20170425045916.GA22896@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <877f28k47g.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <20170425162506.GA12087@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <87r30giek7.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <874lxbomoi.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com>
 <87a873ia0y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <5900C718.8040905@gmail.com>

On 26/04/17 14:16, fauno wrote:
> Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at lukeshu.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:26:32 -0400,
>> fauno wrote:
>>> it would be awesome if libretools could cross-build packages without the
>>> need of a native board, like openwrt does.
>>
>> It can.  Install 'binfmt-qemu-static' and specify '-A armv7h' when
>> creating the chroot.
>>
>> (ok, this uses qemu to run ARM binaries on x86, while openwrt uses a
>> cross toolchain and doesn't run ARM binaries during the build)
>
> he, i meant the latter :P

AFAIK, cross-compiling all packages is almost impossible anyway. There 
are some programs that require snippets to be run on the host 
architecture in order to compile them. Distros like openwrt, LibreCMC 
don't have as many packages, partly because of this (and partly because 
they use a different libc ... both cause complications, even though 
cross-compiling is preferable).

That's not to say it may be possible to cross compile a subset, or even 
the majority in this way. It's just the remaining may be stubborn.

Part of the problem with using qemu to build packages though, is that it 
requires python to build. And last time I looked, python 2 needed to be 
patched in order to cross compile. So it kind of creates a chicken and 
egg problem, if you want to cross-compile up to the minimum required to 
build all packages (which probably includes qemu), you may have to mess 
about patching certain programs in order to do so, and if you do that, 
they will no longer match the generic sources.

But regardless, a good start would be aiming to cross-compile the build 
environment, so it can be bootstrapped, then the other additional 
packages can be built on top of this system. If this were to happen, it 
would make reproducible builds easier, mean less reliance on upstream, 
help with build server(s), help for porting to new architectures, and 
help maintain the existing architectures within parabola.

So it would be good if libretools were to be modified to allow for this, 
as suggested.


From nobody at parabola.nu  Wed Apr 26 21:07:12 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 21:07:12 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [webkit2gtk] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170426210712.1073.3987@proton.parabola.nu>

jm.100best at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:




The user provided the following additional text:

2.16.1-1 is in the Extra repository.



From andreas at grapentin.org  Thu Apr 27 04:52:40 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 06:52:40 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [EOMA68] early access to hardware for parabola ARM
 maintainers?
Message-ID: <20170427045240.GA1882@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


Hello everyone,

I represent the hackers in charge of maintaining the parabola ARM port.

As you know, the 'libre tea' computer card will be shipped with parabola
preinstalled, and we are currently working hard on getting our ARM port in
shape. Unfortunately, at the moment we have two problems:

 a) lack of compute resources - we need some actual ARM boards of the
    right architecture to build - and especially test - packages

 b) lack of information - we don't know enough about the particularities
    of the EOMA68 cards to be able to tell how well our port works on them


Hence my question: would be possible for us to get early access to a
couple of the EOMA68 devices in advance, so that we can make sure that
our ARM port is up and running when the cards are to be shipped?

We are very excited about this project (many of us have actually
pre-ordered cards), and we want to be able to deliver the best possible
version of our GNU/Linux distribution that we can produce.

Best,
Andreas


-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From joseph at xylon.me.uk  Thu Apr 27 08:53:37 2017
From: joseph at xylon.me.uk (Joseph Graham)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:53:37 +0100
Subject: [Dev] the future of arm support
Message-ID: <20170427085337.GA1091@avalon-jessie.home>

Hi,

I would be interrested to help with the ARM port. I think EOMA68 could
be a great project for FLOSS and I'd like to help it.

I think for building I should get an ARM machine with Gigabit ethernet
for running distcc with my powerfull x86 desktop. Will BeagleBoard-X15 or
Banana Pi M3 work?

-- 
Joseph Graham, techno-philosopher and Free Software advocate. 

I have a blog: http://www.naughtycomputer.uk/
I write software: https://www.suckmore.uk/
I run a web forum: https://www.freesoftwareuk.org.uk/
And a platform for Free Software success stories: http://www.freedcomputer.net/


From alessi at robertalessi.net  Thu Apr 27 18:14:34 2017
From: alessi at robertalessi.net (Robert Alessi)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:14:34 +0200
Subject: [Dev] credits page
Message-ID: <20170427181434.GA9790@riseup.net>

Hi Everyone,

Now that things have seemingly settled down, may I suggest to make
some kind of a "Credits Page" where it would be possible to learn
about who did (or does) what for Parabola?

I have no capacity whatsoever to ask for this, but I think that having
such a page published would be fair to the developers who did
contribute _a lot of their time_, even if?and if I may say so
especially if?they are no longer part of the project.

It would also be very convenient for them to have a well documented
page to refer to in their resume.

Many thanks for your attention and all the best to the team!

Robert
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Apr 27 19:08:52 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:08:52 -0300
Subject: [Dev] credits page
In-Reply-To: <20170427181434.GA9790@riseup.net>
References: <20170427181434.GA9790@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <87lgqlhdmj.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Robert Alessi <alessi at robertalessi.net> writes:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> Now that things have seemingly settled down, may I suggest to make
> some kind of a "Credits Page" where it would be possible to learn
> about who did (or does) what for Parabola?
>
> I have no capacity whatsoever to ask for this, but I think that having
> such a page published would be fair to the developers who did
> contribute _a lot of their time_, even if?and if I may say so
> especially if?they are no longer part of the project.
>
> It would also be very convenient for them to have a well documented
> page to refer to in their resume.
>
> Many thanks for your attention and all the best to the team!

look for "hackers" and "support staff" (which i think should be removed)
on parabola.nu :)

-- 
:{
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 27 19:13:49 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:13:49 -0300
Subject: [Dev] credits page
In-Reply-To: <87lgqlhdmj.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <20170427181434.GA9790@riseup.net>
 <87lgqlhdmj.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <e294b518-8bad-a64b-a34b-a961258a36c8@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/
https://www.parabola.nu/people/support-staff/
https://www.parabola.nu/people/hacker-fellows/
https://www.parabola.nu/people/artists/

El 27/04/17 a las 16:08, fauno escribi?:
> Robert Alessi <alessi at robertalessi.net> writes:
> 
>> Hi Everyone,
>> 
>> Now that things have seemingly settled down, may I suggest to
>> make some kind of a "Credits Page" where it would be possible to
>> learn about who did (or does) what for Parabola?
>> 
>> I have no capacity whatsoever to ask for this, but I think that
>> having such a page published would be fair to the developers who
>> did contribute _a lot of their time_, even if?and if I may say
>> so especially if?they are no longer part of the project.
>> 
>> It would also be very convenient for them to have a well
>> documented page to refer to in their resume.
>> 
>> Many thanks for your attention and all the best to the team!
> 
> look for "hackers" and "support staff" (which i think should be
> removed) on parabola.nu :)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 27 19:21:59 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:21:59 -0300
Subject: [Dev] How can I enable SPIdev on Parabola ARM?
Message-ID: <e69e3a91-0a06-1876-5758-a41e586d3779@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi everyone, I want to flash libreboot with my Banana Pi M1, but I
haven't found a way to enable the /dev/spidev* devices. I've tried
enabling spidev and spi-sun4i modules, but nothing. In some forums, it
tells me to edit the famous /boot/config.txt which is only available
for the RPi.

I've read http://linux-sunxi.org/SPIdev but I really do not know the
difference between "y" and "m" in kernels (I know that "m" stands for
"module"). If you can help me, I'd be very thankful.

Cheers!

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbbnEtPDYwNxDLPbkInynxVayungFAlkCRNIACgkQInynxVay
unhtkAf+I05CJfPpgvUs/Oi12cgbQiV2tofvJ64ddKVdZanUhSMSSqLiz4BpExNv
4JYOoSpIcfaHUItBfZ1lXuKyzsW9ysQ2TsN2V+NBeLwmazunmYDuIv0GtDPhsjQw
Mjzvs83FYugAuNZ8NJoLcw9SkAEonUpU7x7vCbTPEc3NDYw1GgUTVdZdkkjOXJzt
NaKuQgE3UP3jCWl7PWMbQgPLoAlkVsmkLuXPwYX8OGcbkcnxLmGV9g1/hzsbq7me
zpb2ls94YF/wJkZAerVuSje8xYjbRhQW25sWe0gjc1LeQE5MAkiBaUD3UWkzEC1A
xqPpmrsG9lQlQve+eHBkU3r7SsLLbg==
=lMil
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 23:14:40 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 00:14:40 +0100
Subject: [Dev] How can I enable SPIdev on Parabola ARM?
In-Reply-To: <e69e3a91-0a06-1876-5758-a41e586d3779@openmailbox.org>
References: <e69e3a91-0a06-1876-5758-a41e586d3779@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <59027B60.4010304@gmail.com>

On 27/04/17 20:21, Megver83 wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Hi everyone, I want to flash libreboot with my Banana Pi M1, but I
> haven't found a way to enable the /dev/spidev* devices. I've tried
> enabling spidev and spi-sun4i modules, but nothing. In some forums, it
> tells me to edit the famous /boot/config.txt which is only available
> for the RPi.
>
> I've read http://linux-sunxi.org/SPIdev but I really do not know the
> difference between "y" and "m" in kernels (I know that "m" stands for
> "module"). If you can help me, I'd be very thankful.

IIRC y stands for "yes", assuming support is in the kernel, and y is to 
enable that support. I think you are correct that m is for "module".

Have you tried UART connection?

Before arch linux arm supported the A10 olinuxino-lime, I got u-boot and 
a kernel compiled with an arch linux rootfs, to put on an sdcard [1]. I 
also did the same for an A13 tablet (although it had/needed proprietary 
wifi drivers).

It was a long time ago, but I also had problems, so debugged using UART, 
and can strongly recommend this for sunxi devices.

That said, I did not use libreboot, I used u-boot instead. Somebody had 
already ported u-boot to those boards, so not much work was needed.

Sorry if I cannot be of any more help, I am by no means an expert,

Nowadays, I just install the arch linux arm image, and follow the 
migration guide, which doesn't help much for debugging, but seems to work.

Josh


[1] 
http://www.publicsite.org/J05HYYY/software_downloads/olinuxinolime-archlinux.tar.gz


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Thu Apr 27 23:48:57 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:48:57 -0300
Subject: [Dev] How can I enable SPIdev on Parabola ARM?
In-Reply-To: <59027B60.4010304@gmail.com>
References: <e69e3a91-0a06-1876-5758-a41e586d3779@openmailbox.org>
 <59027B60.4010304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60b9289e-ab79-9356-6061-62097ccbaa1e@openmailbox.org>

I'm sorry, but I think you didn't understand. I just want Parabola to
detect the GPIO pins, which is located in /dev/spidev* (virtually). GPIO
pins are peripherals.

And the reason is that I want to flash Libreboot on a ThinkPad *with the
BPi*, I do not want to flash Libreboot on the Pi (AFAIK no one has tried
that).

El 27/04/17 a las 20:14, Josh Branning escribi?:
> On 27/04/17 20:21, Megver83 wrote:
>> Hi everyone, I want to flash libreboot with my Banana Pi M1, but I
>> haven't found a way to enable the /dev/spidev* devices. I've tried
>> enabling spidev and spi-sun4i modules, but nothing. In some forums, it
>> tells me to edit the famous /boot/config.txt which is only available
>> for the RPi.
>>
>> I've read http://linux-sunxi.org/SPIdev but I really do not know the
>> difference between "y" and "m" in kernels (I know that "m" stands for
>> "module"). If you can help me, I'd be very thankful.
> 
> IIRC y stands for "yes", assuming support is in the kernel, and y is to
> enable that support. I think you are correct that m is for "module".
> 
> Have you tried UART connection?
> 
> Before arch linux arm supported the A10 olinuxino-lime, I got u-boot and
> a kernel compiled with an arch linux rootfs, to put on an sdcard [1]. I
> also did the same for an A13 tablet (although it had/needed proprietary
> wifi drivers).
> 
> It was a long time ago, but I also had problems, so debugged using UART,
> and can strongly recommend this for sunxi devices.
> 
> That said, I did not use libreboot, I used u-boot instead. Somebody had
> already ported u-boot to those boards, so not much work was needed.
> 
> Sorry if I cannot be of any more help, I am by no means an expert,
> 
> Nowadays, I just install the arch linux arm image, and follow the
> migration guide, which doesn't help much for debugging, but seems to work.
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
> [1]
> http://www.publicsite.org/J05HYYY/software_downloads/olinuxinolime-archlinux.tar.gz
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From quiliro at riseup.net  Fri Apr 28 01:30:22 2017
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quiliro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:30:22 -0500
Subject: [Dev] How can I enable SPIdev on Parabola ARM?
In-Reply-To: <e69e3a91-0a06-1876-5758-a41e586d3779@openmailbox.org>
References: <e69e3a91-0a06-1876-5758-a41e586d3779@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170427193849.14f55da6@riseup.net>

El Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:21:59 -0300
Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> escribi?:

> difference between "y" and "m" in kernels (I know that "m" stands for
> "module").

Really?
y=include inside kernel
n=do not include in kernel
m=include in kernel as to be dynamically loaded latter as a module



-- 
Example of rude top posting:

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

A: No.
Q: Should I leave quotations after my reply?

Saluton,
Quiliro
0987631031




From andreas at grapentin.org  Fri Apr 28 08:12:05 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:12:05 +0200
Subject: [Dev] packager gpg key expired
Message-ID: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


The PGP key of emulatorman has expired:

  $ gpg --list-keys emulatorman
  pub   rsa4096 2012-06-23 [SC] [expired: 2017-04-28]
        C92BAA713B8D53D3CAE63FC9E6974752F9704456
  uid           [ expired] Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>
  uid           [ expired] Andr? Silva <emulatorman at parabola.nu>
  uid           [ expired] [jpeg image of size 24564]

this means that pacman will fail to install any packges signed by Andr?,
which are many. Even `librechroot make` fails now:

  $ sudo librechroot make
  ==> Creating 'root' copy for chroot [default]
  ==> Creating install root at /home/andi/parabola/build/default/root
  ==> Installing packages to /home/andi/parabola/build/default/root

    [ snip ... ]

  (104/104) checking package integrity                     [################################] 100%
  error: filesystem: signature from "Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>" is unknown trust
  :: File /var/cache/pacman/pkg/filesystem-2017.03-2.parabola1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz is corrupted (invalid or corrupted package (PGP signature)).
  Do you want to delete it? [Y/n] 

    [ 5 more follow ... ]

  error: failed to commit transaction (invalid or corrupted package)
  Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.
  ==> ERROR: Failed to install packages to new root
  ==> ERROR: Failed to install all packages

What can we do? Do we need to rebuild these packages, or can we just
resign them using a valid key? If we need to rebuild, can we do it
without resorting to `SigLevel = Never` in pacman.conf, since
librechroot fails to make a working chroot?

Best,
Andreas


-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From alessi at robertalessi.net  Fri Apr 28 09:10:44 2017
From: alessi at robertalessi.net (Robert Alessi)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:10:44 +0200
Subject: [Dev] credits page
In-Reply-To: <e294b518-8bad-a64b-a34b-a961258a36c8@openmailbox.org>
References: <20170427181434.GA9790@riseup.net>
 <87lgqlhdmj.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <e294b518-8bad-a64b-a34b-a961258a36c8@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170428091044.GA3965@riseup.net>

Thank you for the links.  But actually I meant something different
than electronic directories of active members.  As an example, I would
refer to the "Contributors" page of CTAN (http://ctan.org/author).  To
date, 2,424 contributors to CTAN are listed.  Some of them are
inactive for months or years, some are dead, but their work is still
available, and anyone can learn from that place who did what.  Or
still does: time is not relevant here, only work and authorship are.

Example of an "inactive" author: http://ctan.org/author/lehman
Example of another who is deceased: http://ctan.org/author/rahtz

That said, I can understand that putting up such a page may not be
practical nor desirable.

Best,

Robert

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 04:13:49PM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/
> https://www.parabola.nu/people/support-staff/
> https://www.parabola.nu/people/hacker-fellows/
> https://www.parabola.nu/people/artists/
> 
> El 27/04/17 a las 16:08, fauno escribi?:
> > Robert Alessi <alessi at robertalessi.net> writes:
> > 
> >> Hi Everyone,
> >> 
> >> Now that things have seemingly settled down, may I suggest to
> >> make some kind of a "Credits Page" where it would be possible to
> >> learn about who did (or does) what for Parabola?
> >> 
> >> I have no capacity whatsoever to ask for this, but I think that
> >> having such a page published would be fair to the developers who
> >> did contribute _a lot of their time_, even if?and if I may say
> >> so especially if?they are no longer part of the project.
> >> 
> >> It would also be very convenient for them to have a well
> >> documented page to refer to in their resume.
> >> 
> >> Many thanks for your attention and all the best to the team!
> > 
> > look for "hackers" and "support staff" (which i think should be
> > removed) on parabola.nu :)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 28 11:53:03 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:53:03 -0300
Subject: [Dev] credits page
In-Reply-To: <20170428091044.GA3965@riseup.net>
References: <20170427181434.GA9790@riseup.net>
 <87lgqlhdmj.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <e294b518-8bad-a64b-a34b-a961258a36c8@openmailbox.org>
 <20170428091044.GA3965@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <fc4333df-d6a6-4d63-a841-eed5aa0cc17f@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

got it, I liked your idea, you could tell lukeshu through IRC since he
manages the parabolaweb

El 28/04/17 a las 06:10, Robert Alessi escribi?:
> Thank you for the links.  But actually I meant something different 
> than electronic directories of active members.  As an example, I
> would refer to the "Contributors" page of CTAN
> (http://ctan.org/author).  To date, 2,424 contributors to CTAN are
> listed.  Some of them are inactive for months or years, some are
> dead, but their work is still available, and anyone can learn from
> that place who did what.  Or still does: time is not relevant here,
> only work and authorship are.
> 
> Example of an "inactive" author: http://ctan.org/author/lehman 
> Example of another who is deceased: http://ctan.org/author/rahtz
> 
> That said, I can understand that putting up such a page may not be 
> practical nor desirable.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Robert
> 
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 04:13:49PM -0300, Megver83 wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
>> 
>> https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/ 
>> https://www.parabola.nu/people/support-staff/ 
>> https://www.parabola.nu/people/hacker-fellows/ 
>> https://www.parabola.nu/people/artists/
>> 
>> El 27/04/17 a las 16:08, fauno escribi?:
>>> Robert Alessi <alessi at robertalessi.net> writes:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> Now that things have seemingly settled down, may I suggest
>>>> to make some kind of a "Credits Page" where it would be
>>>> possible to learn about who did (or does) what for Parabola?
>>>> 
>>>> I have no capacity whatsoever to ask for this, but I think
>>>> that having such a page published would be fair to the
>>>> developers who did contribute _a lot of their time_, even
>>>> if?and if I may say so especially if?they are no longer part
>>>> of the project.
>>>> 
>>>> It would also be very convenient for them to have a well 
>>>> documented page to refer to in their resume.
>>>> 
>>>> Many thanks for your attention and all the best to the team!
>>> 
>>> look for "hackers" and "support staff" (which i think should
>>> be removed) on parabola.nu :)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing
>>> list Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbbnEtPDYwNxDLPbkInynxVayungFAlkDLRsACgkQInynxVay
unjx9wgAuWVlNd19vZSI5C3eoZrPIhmRgwK98Bf9R4HUQ1rpp/icCdqgUUhYuilB
8twlCHa2FjhK5jIwxlxFAwFrwOYADSLnjiwJXb0GE64Qh8qETvzjIMowwwYtavJV
Ics91DC0Ud34+csHnD81CtbjMdbBqEfPWs+7b/61bAgvFL3JL3Iq0IBlhNDLPwGQ
NEJVuIfhLAsctapAcXWmoYla/prH+1ITtjeTTMx5x6oJV2p5V848Dxu12c6TKZXi
+LkwBSuTSUXfBHF7UzIaGxmt7uqHBK4FRFbjPaKuwy0Dc9ikmA3vv/1JjmjRbHHT
L8b/iLUWLOVpf/Z4/hG5lBoXxRfKFA==
=xcSG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 28 12:41:11 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 09:41:11 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Wiki page of Pacman Troubleshooting (because of the recent
 problems with devs keys)
Message-ID: <ae1c4990-0566-2a74-a19d-b3741b1b394b@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi everyone, I just wrote
https://wiki.parabola.nu/Pacman_troubleshooting so for the ones who
have problems with keys see
https://wiki.parabola.nu/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys

This should also appear in Parabola news, since the commands given
there are incorrect. It's better to give the link to this wiki page.

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbbnEtPDYwNxDLPbkInynxVayungFAlkDOGQACgkQInynxVay
ungxKgf/XXo/s63/3eFWG2vGzoyMylvagq2MVEL9Hxah4MO1kGHTXq6A+gE1WnzK
5jutA15L0FkgJeAfBhVwDBfMs0Y9e2ozWHy2x0lKt4HsnmpkJy16qmOW8xE26Eza
YBodb6f3t2M2mJ7eAgNIs0u4rsYziQiJn+VLnCRkIxMsKUT8DkrTREW1rIx3q2ZE
FwT64UHAcYgoXSRbxnGUhJHEH3u+b0Bys9yIxIndDes0F5RY6egL7PIS0POPUYbp
6HHBsPoBfwPcfp4wXBaah5m5IzgaaGW7I5R7pYk3FBhctfM5a6648Zqk1sTwfqYO
JTufCYt0E+QZZdos2kcM5qgWmSS8qw==
=eQgv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Fri Apr 28 14:03:29 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:03:29 +0100
Subject: [Dev] How can I enable SPIdev on Parabola ARM?
In-Reply-To: <60b9289e-ab79-9356-6061-62097ccbaa1e@openmailbox.org>
References: <e69e3a91-0a06-1876-5758-a41e586d3779@openmailbox.org>
 <59027B60.4010304@gmail.com>
 <60b9289e-ab79-9356-6061-62097ccbaa1e@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <59034BB1.2090906@gmail.com>

It doesn't say which kernel all of those options apply to. If it's the 
sunxi kernel, then you may be out of luck. If it's the mainline kernel, 
which it probably is [1], don't you just edit the defconfig for the 
kernel, find those options and set them, then recompile the kernel?

If I understand correctly, there is no need to modify a fex file, as 
mainline kernels use the device tree model instead.

Why they weren't enabled in the first place though is a question to ask.

Josh


[1] 
https://git.parabola.nu/abslibre.git/tree/libre/linux-libre/config.armv7h

On 28/04/17 00:48, Megver83 wrote:
> I'm sorry, but I think you didn't understand. I just want Parabola to
> detect the GPIO pins, which is located in /dev/spidev* (virtually). GPIO
> pins are peripherals.
>
> And the reason is that I want to flash Libreboot on a ThinkPad *with the
> BPi*, I do not want to flash Libreboot on the Pi (AFAIK no one has tried
> that).
>
> El 27/04/17 a las 20:14, Josh Branning escribi?:
>> On 27/04/17 20:21, Megver83 wrote:
>>> Hi everyone, I want to flash libreboot with my Banana Pi M1, but I
>>> haven't found a way to enable the /dev/spidev* devices. I've tried
>>> enabling spidev and spi-sun4i modules, but nothing. In some forums, it
>>> tells me to edit the famous /boot/config.txt which is only available
>>> for the RPi.
>>>
>>> I've read http://linux-sunxi.org/SPIdev but I really do not know the
>>> difference between "y" and "m" in kernels (I know that "m" stands for
>>> "module"). If you can help me, I'd be very thankful.
>>
>> IIRC y stands for "yes", assuming support is in the kernel, and y is to
>> enable that support. I think you are correct that m is for "module".
>>
>> Have you tried UART connection?
>>
>> Before arch linux arm supported the A10 olinuxino-lime, I got u-boot and
>> a kernel compiled with an arch linux rootfs, to put on an sdcard [1]. I
>> also did the same for an A13 tablet (although it had/needed proprietary
>> wifi drivers).
>>
>> It was a long time ago, but I also had problems, so debugged using UART,
>> and can strongly recommend this for sunxi devices.
>>
>> That said, I did not use libreboot, I used u-boot instead. Somebody had
>> already ported u-boot to those boards, so not much work was needed.
>>
>> Sorry if I cannot be of any more help, I am by no means an expert,
>>
>> Nowadays, I just install the arch linux arm image, and follow the
>> migration guide, which doesn't help much for debugging, but seems to work.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> http://www.publicsite.org/J05HYYY/software_downloads/olinuxinolime-archlinux.tar.gz
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dev mailing list
>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>



From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 28 15:31:46 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:31:46 -0300
Subject: [Dev] packager gpg key expired
In-Reply-To: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4d6d16d6-4b69-283c-d5cf-d0f3f88935ee@openmailbox.org>

Checked on the key server
https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=0xC92BAA713B8D53D3CAE63FC9E6974752F9704456&op=vindex

Type bits/keyID     cr. time   exp time   *key expir*

uid Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>
sig  sig3  F9704456 2016-04-28 __________ *2017-04-28* [selfsig]

Added TODO list --> https://pad.kefir.red/p/ParabolaPackages

El 28/04/17 a las 05:12, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> 
> The PGP key of emulatorman has expired:
> 
> $ gpg --list-keys emulatorman pub   rsa4096 2012-06-23 [SC] 
> [expired: 2017-04-28] C92BAA713B8D53D3CAE63FC9E6974752F9704456 uid 
> [ expired] Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> uid           [ 
> expired] Andr? Silva <emulatorman at parabola.nu> uid           [ 
> expired] [jpeg image of size 24564]
> 
> this means that pacman will fail to install any packges signed by 
> Andr?, which are many. Even `librechroot make` fails now:
> 
> $ sudo librechroot make ==> Creating 'root' copy for chroot 
> [default] ==> Creating install root at 
> /home/andi/parabola/build/default/root ==> Installing packages to 
> /home/andi/parabola/build/default/root
> 
> [ snip ... ]
> 
> (104/104) checking package integrity 
> [################################] 100% error: filesystem: 
> signature from "Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>" is unknown 
> trust :: File 
> /var/cache/pacman/pkg/filesystem-2017.03-2.parabola1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
>
> 
is corrupted (invalid or corrupted package (PGP signature)). Do you
> want to delete it? [Y/n]
> 
> [ 5 more follow ... ]
> 
> error: failed to commit transaction (invalid or corrupted package)
>  Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded. ==> ERROR: Failed to 
> install packages to new root ==> ERROR: Failed to install all 
> packages
> 
> What can we do? Do we need to rebuild these packages, or can we 
> just resign them using a valid key? If we need to rebuild, can we 
> do it without resorting to `SigLevel = Never` in pacman.conf, since
> librechroot fails to make a working chroot?
> 
> Best, Andreas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 28 15:34:27 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:34:27 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [SOLUTION] packager gpg key expired
In-Reply-To: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3be4474f-7416-beb4-05f5-02858ec71a41@openmailbox.org>

To *temporally* solve this users can disable SigLevel in /etc/pacman.conf
It is not a very secure alternative but there's no other way until we
compile emulatorman's packages.

Can the autobuilder just rebuild a new release?

El 28/04/17 a las 05:12, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> 
> The PGP key of emulatorman has expired:
> 
> $ gpg --list-keys emulatorman pub   rsa4096 2012-06-23 [SC]
> [expired: 2017-04-28] C92BAA713B8D53D3CAE63FC9E6974752F9704456 uid
> [ expired] Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> uid           [
> expired] Andr? Silva <emulatorman at parabola.nu> uid           [
> expired] [jpeg image of size 24564]
> 
> this means that pacman will fail to install any packges signed by
> Andr?, which are many. Even `librechroot make` fails now:
> 
> $ sudo librechroot make ==> Creating 'root' copy for chroot
> [default] ==> Creating install root at
> /home/andi/parabola/build/default/root ==> Installing packages to
> /home/andi/parabola/build/default/root
> 
> [ snip ... ]
> 
> (104/104) checking package integrity
> [################################] 100% error: filesystem:
> signature from "Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net>" is unknown
> trust :: File
> /var/cache/pacman/pkg/filesystem-2017.03-2.parabola1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
> is corrupted (invalid or corrupted package (PGP signature)). Do you
> want to delete it? [Y/n]
> 
> [ 5 more follow ... ]
> 
> error: failed to commit transaction (invalid or corrupted package) 
> Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded. ==> ERROR: Failed to
> install packages to new root ==> ERROR: Failed to install all
> packages
> 
> What can we do? Do we need to rebuild these packages, or can we
> just resign them using a valid key? If we need to rebuild, can we
> do it without resorting to `SigLevel = Never` in pacman.conf,
> since librechroot fails to make a working chroot?
> 
> Best, Andreas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Fri Apr 28 16:19:07 2017
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:19:07 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [SOLUTION] packager gpg key expired
In-Reply-To: <3be4474f-7416-beb4-05f5-02858ec71a41@openmailbox.org>
References: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <3be4474f-7416-beb4-05f5-02858ec71a41@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87d1bwh5dw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:

> To *temporally* solve this users can disable SigLevel in /etc/pacman.conf
> It is not a very secure alternative but there's no other way until we
> compile emulatorman's packages.
>
> Can the autobuilder just rebuild a new release?

you can also ask emulatorman to update his key.  if he wants to keep
using gpg he needs to do this anyway.

-- 
:O
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 28 16:27:50 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:27:50 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [SOLUTION] packager gpg key expired
In-Reply-To: <87d1bwh5dw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <3be4474f-7416-beb4-05f5-02858ec71a41@openmailbox.org>
 <87d1bwh5dw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <c211eed8-e88e-b077-3ccf-0aa6362690da@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

You're right.
Emulatorman: could you update your key, please?

El 28/04/17 a las 13:19, fauno escribi?:
> Megver83 <megver83 at openmailbox.org> writes:
> 
>> To *temporally* solve this users can disable SigLevel in
>> /etc/pacman.conf It is not a very secure alternative but there's
>> no other way until we compile emulatorman's packages.
>> 
>> Can the autobuilder just rebuild a new release?
> 
> you can also ask emulatorman to update his key.  if he wants to
> keep using gpg he needs to do this anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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uniJdgf+OxmNXqVGpbx/itk5fvTqH02sd6BjsDJhxnoBaIePUCfBKd0XO6JVPvoa
6J2GJR4Y5ylO8nNa7ZCbxAAUuMkpcLD7uoeAcvQs17g066+u5Qft7GafEiyF7T0O
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=bRP4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 28 17:05:40 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:05:40 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [SOLUTION] packager gpg key expired
In-Reply-To: <23767623-5f5b-5839-4d7f-da423e15fa0c@riseup.net>
References: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <3be4474f-7416-beb4-05f5-02858ec71a41@openmailbox.org>
 <87d1bwh5dw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <c211eed8-e88e-b077-3ccf-0aa6362690da@openmailbox.org>
 <23767623-5f5b-5839-4d7f-da423e15fa0c@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5b93b545-9242-e79d-e29a-9510f74a9e5a@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

ok, forwarded!

El 28/04/17 a las 14:01, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> On 04/28/2017 04:27 PM, Megver83 wrote:
>> You're right. Emulatorman: could you update your key, please?
> 
> I've updated it, check if works well and let me know!
> 
> Note: forward this email to devs since i've unsubscribed there.
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbbnEtPDYwNxDLPbkInynxVayungFAlkDdmQACgkQInynxVay
ungyygf7B8Shlo8cMX98WRkdsg2/d3sMK8KCzEHXO+imJ9Q8hzJZMxjo/fV46meZ
lzYt0UHw/sUb8y4zBupfb2u/Z7E7+NuAgW4o8/nWW3axOALDfprKAiQv5s6xqmcI
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NXOnAEOmzcm4k4cu4wb5hdG6RWBWew==
=OK8M
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 28 17:13:52 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:13:52 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [SOLUTION] packager gpg key expired
In-Reply-To: <23767623-5f5b-5839-4d7f-da423e15fa0c@riseup.net>
References: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <3be4474f-7416-beb4-05f5-02858ec71a41@openmailbox.org>
 <87d1bwh5dw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <c211eed8-e88e-b077-3ccf-0aa6362690da@openmailbox.org>
 <23767623-5f5b-5839-4d7f-da423e15fa0c@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <58f2165e-6554-a844-360c-e232663c1148@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

hummm, looks like it didn't work for me, I even refreshed the keyring.

El 28/04/17 a las 14:01, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> On 04/28/2017 04:27 PM, Megver83 wrote:
>> You're right. Emulatorman: could you update your key, please?
> 
> I've updated it, check if works well and let me know!
> 
> Note: forward this email to devs since i've unsubscribed there.
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbbnEtPDYwNxDLPbkInynxVayungFAlkDeE0ACgkQInynxVay
unieuQgAk6zh0frRvihYAzmA4Bi3s7PcDaklWRSe/3LrUGROWMFcTJiezndEPPQ9
+4+8LzRekqxrC1syyTjRCvr66DtIa4NAobdeFDstGti5agZxwu9HQ206Y852iYTo
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=s/XS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 28 18:31:26 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:31:26 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [SOLUTION] packager gpg key expired
In-Reply-To: <a0fdf309-783e-4566-6eb5-431584cabe17@riseup.net>
References: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <3be4474f-7416-beb4-05f5-02858ec71a41@openmailbox.org>
 <87d1bwh5dw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <c211eed8-e88e-b077-3ccf-0aa6362690da@openmailbox.org>
 <23767623-5f5b-5839-4d7f-da423e15fa0c@riseup.net>
 <58f2165e-6554-a844-360c-e232663c1148@openmailbox.org>
 <a0fdf309-783e-4566-6eb5-431584cabe17@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <9052fa67-4b88-de96-c1b6-4fd79a7fa200@openmailbox.org>

Now yes!

El 28/04/17 a las 15:26, Andr? Silva escribi?:
> On 04/28/2017 05:13 PM, Megver83 wrote:
>> hummm, looks like it didn't work for me, I even refreshed the
>> keyring.
> 
> I've pushed to hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net, check now if
> works and let me know!
> 

-- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)


From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 28 18:36:36 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:36:36 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [SOLUTION] packager gpg key expired
In-Reply-To: <9052fa67-4b88-de96-c1b6-4fd79a7fa200@openmailbox.org>
References: <20170428081205.GA8218@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
 <3be4474f-7416-beb4-05f5-02858ec71a41@openmailbox.org>
 <87d1bwh5dw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <c211eed8-e88e-b077-3ccf-0aa6362690da@openmailbox.org>
 <23767623-5f5b-5839-4d7f-da423e15fa0c@riseup.net>
 <58f2165e-6554-a844-360c-e232663c1148@openmailbox.org>
 <a0fdf309-783e-4566-6eb5-431584cabe17@riseup.net>
 <9052fa67-4b88-de96-c1b6-4fd79a7fa200@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <82d9e952-28f1-0d1a-1df8-d9a81376daee@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

sth. important: for this to work, it is necessary to run pacman-key
- --refresh-keys

El 28/04/17 a las 15:31, Megver83 escribi?:
> Now yes!
> 
> El 28/04/17 a las 15:26, Andr? Silva escribi?:
>> On 04/28/2017 05:13 PM, Megver83 wrote:
>>> hummm, looks like it didn't work for me, I even refreshed the 
>>> keyring.
>> 
>> I've pushed to hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net, check now if 
>> works and let me know!
>> 
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbbnEtPDYwNxDLPbkInynxVayungFAlkDi7AACgkQInynxVay
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=qEQd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From marcel at roethke.info  Fri Apr 28 17:46:46 2017
From: marcel at roethke.info (=?UTF-8?Q?Marcel_R=c3=b6thke?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 19:46:46 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Wiki page of Pacman Troubleshooting (because of the
 recent problems with devs keys)
In-Reply-To: <ae1c4990-0566-2a74-a19d-b3741b1b394b@openmailbox.org>
References: <ae1c4990-0566-2a74-a19d-b3741b1b394b@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <72a8f55a-a558-8d0c-4b0b-7d36338b88ab@roethke.info>

On 28.04.2017 14:41, Megver83 wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> Hi everyone, I just wrote
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Pacman_troubleshooting so for the ones who
> have problems with keys see
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Pacman_troubleshooting#Errors_about_Keys
> 
> This should also appear in Parabola news, since the commands given
> there are incorrect. It's better to give the link to this wiki page.
> 
> - -- 
> SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
> XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
> Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
> GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
> GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
> Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbbnEtPDYwNxDLPbkInynxVayungFAlkDOGQACgkQInynxVay
> ungxKgf/XXo/s63/3eFWG2vGzoyMylvagq2MVEL9Hxah4MO1kGHTXq6A+gE1WnzK
> 5jutA15L0FkgJeAfBhVwDBfMs0Y9e2ozWHy2x0lKt4HsnmpkJy16qmOW8xE26Eza
> YBodb6f3t2M2mJ7eAgNIs0u4rsYziQiJn+VLnCRkIxMsKUT8DkrTREW1rIx3q2ZE
> FwT64UHAcYgoXSRbxnGUhJHEH3u+b0Bys9yIxIndDes0F5RY6egL7PIS0POPUYbp
> 6HHBsPoBfwPcfp4wXBaah5m5IzgaaGW7I5R7pYk3FBhctfM5a6648Zqk1sTwfqYO
> JTufCYt0E+QZZdos2kcM5qgWmSS8qw==
> =eQgv
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

Sorry, but what you are suggesting in the wiki can not be called a
solution in my honest opinion.
Packages are signed to ensure that they are coming from a trusted
source. Which in turn allows me to trust my system. Allowing distrusted
packages to install breaks that trust, requiring a reinstall to rebuild
it. Because there is no straightforward way to be certain that nothing
malicious found it's way onto the system.

I furthermore think that it is quite concerning to provide that as a
solution. Especially considering parabolas context as a distribution
that only provides free software. Which among other things is about trust.

In my opinion the only viable solution to this problem is providing a
fixed parabola-keyring package that is signed by an already trusted key.
And maybe even to stop doing automatic builds for the package that
basically is the foundation of trust for parabola


From quiliro at riseup.net  Mon Apr 24 23:51:45 2017
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quiliro)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:51:45 -0500
Subject: [Dev] About non-monetary donations
In-Reply-To: <87mvb9x503.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <09260dee-7bf3-1a8b-ff9f-3fc481de0981@riseup.net>
 <e34e8e75-a4d8-1d0b-00c2-b53574defb0d@riseup.net>
 <58F92F0D.1040403@ceata.org>
 <a69a8910-27da-1dbd-f8cc-b5f9ae9e6f43@gnu.org>
 <58F9A885.2080903@ceata.org> <87mvb9x503.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <20170421123936.79940154@riseup.net>

El Fri, 21 Apr 2017 10:30:20 -0300
fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org> escribi?:

> IMO emulatorman can keep the ac converter and the other replacement
> stuff if he's still using it.  we can consider it a very little in-kind
> donation for his work (which we should've distributed before, but that's
> another discussion).
> 
> the hardware that was being used to maintain the arm port is still
> useful to keep working on it and it was donated to parabola, so we'd
> like it back, correct?  we can pay the shipment since it's ours.
> 
> if it's to me, i won't use it since i don't work on the arm port, so
> maybe we can send it directly to the arm port hackers, or other hacker
> that wants to work on the arm port and couldn't because of missing
> hardware?  otherwise we'll have to pay two shipments.
> 
> do you all think this is correct?  can we work from here?

I agree with this. This is the most salomonic attitude.

I would even go to the extent to donate whatever the retired Parabola hackers have in their hands as a "thank you" for their great contributions to this fantastic project. Heck! It is not thousands of dollars!


From heckyel at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 30 02:05:57 2017
From: heckyel at openmailbox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Jes=c3=bas_Eduardo?=)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 21:05:57 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Possible requirement to update browsers Icecat and Iceweasel.
Message-ID: <ec504e39-c3bd-65da-5b33-6e2e958e8a89@openmailbox.org>

Hello friends of Parabola GNU7Linux-Libre, it seems that there is to 
update browsers iceweasel and icecat, because one of 
its dependencies has been updated, 
for example in the case of icu=59.1-1
and the browsers listed above, require the previous version 
icu=58.2.

Greetings.

-- 
Jes?s Eduardo | Developer and Hacker of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre
https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/cybersy/
https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org

Protect your emails with GnuPG:
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org

Free Software Webmail Systems
https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems

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From heckyel at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 30 02:07:38 2017
From: heckyel at openmailbox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Jes=c3=bas_Eduardo?=)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 21:07:38 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Possible requirement to update browsers Icecat and Iceweasel.
Message-ID: <21c4bc50-6c1d-4adf-75e1-33c2e964fef8@openmailbox.org>

Hello friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre, it seems that there is to 
update browsers iceweasel and icecat, because one of 
its dependencies has been updated, 
for example in the case of icu=59.1-1
and the browsers listed above, require the previous version 
icu=58.2.

Greetings.


-- 
Jes?s Eduardo | Developer and Hacker of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre
https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/cybersy/
https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org

Protect your emails with GnuPG:
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org

Free Software Webmail Systems
https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems


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From nobody at parabola.nu  Sun Apr 30 05:09:26 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 05:09:26 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [gnome-weather] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170430050926.1073.42584@proton.parabola.nu>

jm.100best at gmail.con wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:




The user provided the following additional text:

3.24



From nobody at parabola.nu  Sun Apr 30 05:12:31 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 05:12:31 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [gnome-boxes] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170430051231.1073.75740@proton.parabola.nu>

jm.100best at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* gnome-boxes 3.22.3-1.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/gnome-boxes/
* gnome-boxes 3.22.4-1.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/gnome-boxes/
* gnome-boxes 3.22.4-1.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/gnome-boxes/


The user provided the following additional text:

3.24



From andreas at grapentin.org  Sun Apr 30 06:25:07 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 08:25:07 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Possible requirement to update browsers Icecat and
 Iceweasel.
In-Reply-To: <21c4bc50-6c1d-4adf-75e1-33c2e964fef8@openmailbox.org>
References: <21c4bc50-6c1d-4adf-75e1-33c2e964fef8@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170430062507.GA14675@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


I'm working on that atm :)
the builds take a while though.

-A

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 09:07:38PM -0500, Jes?s Eduardo wrote:
> Hello friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre, it seems that there is to 
> update browsers iceweasel and icecat, because one of 
> its dependencies has been updated, 
> for example in the case of icu=59.1-1
> and the browsers listed above, require the previous version 
> icu=58.2.
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jes?s Eduardo | Developer and Hacker of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre
> https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/cybersy/
> https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org
> 
> Protect your emails with GnuPG:
> https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
> 
> Free Software Webmail Systems
> https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems
> 
> 




> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev


-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From nobody at parabola.nu  Sun Apr 30 09:19:47 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 09:19:47 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [cups-filters] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170430091947.1073.22401@proton.parabola.nu>

alessi at robertalessi.net wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* cups-filters 1.13.3-1.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/cups-filters/
* cups-filters 1.13.4-1.parabola2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/cups-filters/
* cups-filters 1.13.4-1.parabola2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/cups-filters/


The user provided the following additional text:

Hi,

I got this:
cups-filters: installing poppler (0.54.0-1) breaks dependency 'poppler=0.52.0'

Robert



From nobody at parabola.nu  Sun Apr 30 09:22:30 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 09:22:30 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [icedove] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170430092230.1073.30668@proton.parabola.nu>

alessi at robertalessi.net wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:




The user provided the following additional text:

Hi,

I got this:
:: icedove: installing icu (59.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=58.2'

Robert



From alessi at robertalessi.net  Sun Apr 30 09:37:12 2017
From: alessi at robertalessi.net (Robert Alessi)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 11:37:12 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Nonprism package [icedove] marked out-of-date
In-Reply-To: <20170430092230.1073.30668@proton.parabola.nu>
References: <20170430092230.1073.30668@proton.parabola.nu>
Message-ID: <20170430093712.GA1904@riseup.net>

Hi,

I actually got all of the following:
:: cups-filters: installing poppler (0.54.0-1) breaks dependency 'poppler=0.52.0'
:: icecat: installing icu (59.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=58.2'
:: icedove: installing icu (59.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=58.2'
:: iceweasel: installing icu (59.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=58.2'
:: unar: installing icu (59.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=58.2'

I tried to force the update with '--ignore poppler,icu', but that was
a bad idea: it broke almost all of the packages which have been
compiled with the latest 'icu' without depending on 'icu=x.y', but
merely on bare 'icu', such as postfix among many others.

It might be a good idea to be more specific on the version of icu
which such packages depend on.

Best,

Robert

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 09:22:30AM -0000, Parabola Website Notification wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I got this:
> :: icedove: installing icu (59.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=58.2'
> 
> Robert
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From heckyel at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 30 18:31:11 2017
From: heckyel at openmailbox.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Jes=c3=bas_Eduardo?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 13:31:11 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Correction of dependencies | icu and hunspell
Message-ID: <5f7f74ec-0d89-37ec-ace9-ce5eec509f00@openmailbox.org>

Hi friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre, it seems that there is to 
update browsers icedove, iceweasel, icecat, and other programs,
because various of its dependencies has been updated, 
for example in the case of icu=59.1-1, hunspell-1.6.1-1
and the browsers listed above, require the previous version 
icu=58.2 and hunspell-1.5.4-1

Is a priority, because it is necessary to correct this error 
for those who are installing Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre 
from scratch.

Greetings.

-- 
Jes?s Eduardo | Developer
https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/cybersy/
https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org

Protect your emails with GnuPG:
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org

Free Software Webmail Systems
https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems


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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 30 18:42:55 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 15:42:55 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Possible requirement to update browsers Icecat and
 Iceweasel.
In-Reply-To: <21c4bc50-6c1d-4adf-75e1-33c2e964fef8@openmailbox.org>
References: <21c4bc50-6c1d-4adf-75e1-33c2e964fef8@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <45e615a4-04e9-71b1-85c0-20037c3869a5@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

ok, so we should set it as high priority in the pad
https://pad.kefir.red/p/ParabolaPackages

Now I see:

error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies)
:: cups-filters: installing poppler (0.54.0-1) breaks dependency
'poppler=0.52.0'
:: icedove: installing icu (59.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=58.2'
:: iceweasel: installing icu (59.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=58.2'
:: unar: installing icu (59.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=58.2

Thanks for the advise heckyel :D

El 29/04/17 a las 23:07, Jes?s Eduardo escribi?:
> Hello friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre, it seems that there is
> to update browsers iceweasel and icecat, because one of its
> dependencies has been updated, for example in the case of
> icu=59.1-1 and the browsers listed above, require the previous
> version icu=58.2.
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 30 18:45:04 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 15:45:04 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Possible requirement to update browsers Icecat and
 Iceweasel.
In-Reply-To: <20170430062507.GA14675@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
References: <21c4bc50-6c1d-4adf-75e1-33c2e964fef8@openmailbox.org>
 <20170430062507.GA14675@parabola-pocket.localdomain>
Message-ID: <b4414c52-4abb-f802-67b5-9392800451fd@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

I can be encharge of the ARMv7h packages, or you prefer to package them?

El 30/04/17 a las 03:25, Andreas Grapentin escribi?:
> 
> I'm working on that atm :) the builds take a while though.
> 
> -A
> 
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 09:07:38PM -0500, Jes?s Eduardo wrote:
>> Hello friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre, it seems that there is
>> to update browsers iceweasel and icecat, because one of its
>> dependencies has been updated, for example in the case of
>> icu=59.1-1 and the browsers listed above, require the previous
>> version icu=58.2.
>> 
>> Greetings.
>> 
>> 
>> -- Jes?s Eduardo | Developer and Hacker of Parabola
>> GNU/Linux-Libre https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/cybersy/ 
>> https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org
>> 
>> Protect your emails with GnuPG: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
>> 
>> Free Software Webmail Systems 
>> https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list 
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 30 18:49:06 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 15:49:06 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Possible requirement to update browsers Icecat and
 Iceweasel.
In-Reply-To: <45e615a4-04e9-71b1-85c0-20037c3869a5@openmailbox.org>
References: <21c4bc50-6c1d-4adf-75e1-33c2e964fef8@openmailbox.org>
 <45e615a4-04e9-71b1-85c0-20037c3869a5@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <0726e092-8403-906a-59e8-01efe35cf5fc@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

I see that ovruni is unar's packager. Just saying.

El 30/04/17 a las 15:42, Megver83 escribi?:
> ok, so we should set it as high priority in the pad 
> https://pad.kefir.red/p/ParabolaPackages
> 
> Now I see:
> 
> error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy
> dependencies) :: cups-filters: installing poppler (0.54.0-1) breaks
> dependency 'poppler=0.52.0' :: icedove: installing icu (59.1-1)
> breaks dependency 'icu=58.2' :: iceweasel: installing icu (59.1-1)
> breaks dependency 'icu=58.2' :: unar: installing icu (59.1-1)
> breaks dependency 'icu=58.2
> 
> Thanks for the advise heckyel :D
> 
> El 29/04/17 a las 23:07, Jes?s Eduardo escribi?:
>> Hello friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre, it seems that there
>> is to update browsers iceweasel and icecat, because one of its 
>> dependencies has been updated, for example in the case of 
>> icu=59.1-1 and the browsers listed above, require the previous 
>> version icu=58.2.
> 
>> Greetings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________ Dev mailing list
>>  Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 
> 
> 

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net  Sun Apr 30 19:17:28 2017
From: deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net (=?utf-8?B?Tmljb2zDoXMgQS4=?= Ortega)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:17:28 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Correction of dependencies | icu and hunspell
In-Reply-To: <5f7f74ec-0d89-37ec-ace9-ce5eec509f00@openmailbox.org>
References: <5f7f74ec-0d89-37ec-ace9-ce5eec509f00@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20170430191728.GB940@athena>

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 01:31:11PM -0500, Jes?s Eduardo wrote:
> Hi friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre, it seems that there is to 
> update browsers icedove, iceweasel, icecat, and other programs,
> because various of its dependencies has been updated, 
> for example in the case of icu=59.1-1, hunspell-1.6.1-1
> and the browsers listed above, require the previous version 
> icu=58.2 and hunspell-1.5.4-1
> 
> Is a priority, because it is necessary to correct this error 
> for those who are installing Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre 
> from scratch.
> 

There is also an issue with the following:

```
texlive-bin: installing poppler (0.54.0-1) breaks dependency 'poppler=0.52.0'
```

poppler also seems to be causing issues (or rather, texlive-bin).

-- 
Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
https://themusicinnoise.net/
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
Public PGP Key:
https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
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From andreas at grapentin.org  Sun Apr 30 19:55:29 2017
From: andreas at grapentin.org (Andreas Grapentin)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:55:29 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Correction of dependencies | icu and hunspell
In-Reply-To: <20170430191728.GB940@athena>
References: <5f7f74ec-0d89-37ec-ace9-ce5eec509f00@openmailbox.org>
 <20170430191728.GB940@athena>
Message-ID: <20170430195529.GA15502@parabola-pocket.localdomain>


I have looked at the PKGBUILDS from arch, and texlive-bin at least does
not use explicit versions on icu and poppler.

why do we?

-A

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 09:17:28PM +0200, Nicol?s A. Ortega wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 01:31:11PM -0500, Jes?s Eduardo wrote:
> > Hi friends of Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre, it seems that there is to 
> > update browsers icedove, iceweasel, icecat, and other programs,
> > because various of its dependencies has been updated, 
> > for example in the case of icu=59.1-1, hunspell-1.6.1-1
> > and the browsers listed above, require the previous version 
> > icu=58.2 and hunspell-1.5.4-1
> > 
> > Is a priority, because it is necessary to correct this error 
> > for those who are installing Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre 
> > from scratch.
> > 
> 
> There is also an issue with the following:
> 
> ```
> texlive-bin: installing poppler (0.54.0-1) breaks dependency 'poppler=0.52.0'
> ```
> 
> poppler also seems to be causing issues (or rather, texlive-bin).
> 
> -- 
> Nicol?s Ortega Froysa (Deathsbreed)
> https://themusicinnoise.net/
> http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/
> Public PGP Key:
> https://themusicinnoise.net/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc
> http://uk7ewohr7xpjuaca.onion/deathsbreed at themusicinnoise.net_pub.asc



> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev


-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my GPG Public Key:                 https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 30 20:46:14 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 17:46:14 -0300
Subject: [Dev] GPG keys not recognized by Winstone
Message-ID: <f4b35dd9-f030-e1ff-895f-d6780d71fdc1@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi everyone. Some days ago ovruni told us he had problems with his GPG
key and he couldn't upload anything to the repositories. Recently I
noted that I was having the same issue, and oaken-source also (he said
it on IRC). Looks like our keys are untrusted (or not recognized?) -->
https://dpaste.de/Rkue/raw
this is the output of 'librerelase' --> https://dpaste.de/vOD1/raw

I hope this fixes soon, right now there are some urgent packages to
upload. Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 30 20:51:25 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 17:51:25 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Who's maintaining PenParabola and Parabola Gaming Project?
Message-ID: <39d913d3-4e63-9b88-5348-7a5d7a135c21@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi, as you may know, the IRC channel topic is:

Welcome to Parabola Community : https://gnusocial.net/group/parabola |
FAQ : https:///wiki.parabola.nu/FAQ | Migration from other
distributions :
https://wiki.parabola.nu/Migration_from_other_distributions |
PenParabola : https://wiki.parabola.nu/PenParabola | Parabola Gaming
Project : https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_Gaming_Project.

But the ones who began those projects left, so I do not know if
keeping that info is good (unless someone else maintains them) in
both, the IRC and the Wiki.

Regards,
Megver83

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver83 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Sun Apr 30 22:15:33 2017
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 23:15:33 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Who's maintaining PenParabola and Parabola Gaming Project?
In-Reply-To: <39d913d3-4e63-9b88-5348-7a5d7a135c21@openmailbox.org>
References: <39d913d3-4e63-9b88-5348-7a5d7a135c21@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <59066205.7080004@gmail.com>

On 30/04/17 21:51, Megver83 wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Hi, as you may know, the IRC channel topic is:
>
> Welcome to Parabola Community : https://gnusocial.net/group/parabola |
> FAQ : https:///wiki.parabola.nu/FAQ | Migration from other
> distributions :
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Migration_from_other_distributions |
> PenParabola : https://wiki.parabola.nu/PenParabola | Parabola Gaming
> Project : https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_Gaming_Project.
>
> But the ones who began those projects left, so I do not know if
> keeping that info is good (unless someone else maintains them) in
> both, the IRC and the Wiki.

I think it is worth keeping the information on the wiki (perhaps with a 
note), even if nobody is actively working on those things at the moment, 
somebody could always pick up later on, from where things were left off. 
Some of the information on those wiki pages are useful, especially the 
comprehensive notes on free/non free pen testing packages.

As to the IRC topic, if nobody is working on them it should probably be 
changed.

JMO,


Josh


From nobody at parabola.nu  Sun Apr 30 22:16:22 2017
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 22:16:22 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20170430221622.1073.41008@proton.parabola.nu>

etfaker at bestmail.ws wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* iceweasel 1:53.0.deb1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel/


The user provided the following additional text:

not working with new/current version of "icu"



From megver83 at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 30 23:26:31 2017
From: megver83 at openmailbox.org (Megver83)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 20:26:31 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Who's maintaining PenParabola and Parabola Gaming Project?
In-Reply-To: <59066205.7080004@gmail.com>
References: <39d913d3-4e63-9b88-5348-7a5d7a135c21@openmailbox.org>
 <59066205.7080004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93f40910-8c82-fe2c-6ffa-3152178af0fa@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

El 30/04/17 a las 19:15, Josh Branning escribi?:
> On 30/04/17 21:51, Megver83 wrote:
>> Hi, as you may know, the IRC channel topic is:
>> 
>> Welcome to Parabola Community :
>> https://gnusocial.net/group/parabola | FAQ :
>> https:///wiki.parabola.nu/FAQ | Migration from other 
>> distributions : 
>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Migration_from_other_distributions | 
>> PenParabola : https://wiki.parabola.nu/PenParabola | Parabola
>> Gaming Project :
>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_Gaming_Project.
>> 
>> But the ones who began those projects left, so I do not know if 
>> keeping that info is good (unless someone else maintains them)
>> in both, the IRC and the Wiki.
> 
> I think it is worth keeping the information on the wiki (perhaps
> with a note), even if nobody is actively working on those things at
> the moment, somebody could always pick up later on, from where
> things were left off. Some of the information on those wiki pages
> are useful, especially the comprehensive notes on free/non free pen
> testing packages.

Of course it's unnecessary to remove those wiki pages, we can put a
note saying that those are currently inactive

> As to the IRC topic, if nobody is working on them it should
> probably be changed.

Yes, that's the point. It should appear fresh news, not dead projects.

> JMO,
> 
> 
> Josh _______________________________________________ Dev mailing
> list Dev at lists.parabola.nu 
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

- -- 
SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org
XMPP: megver83 at diasp.org
Kontalk: +56 9 5630 2363
Tox: megver83 at toxme.io
GPG: 6DB9C4B4F0D8C0DC432CF6E4227CA7C556B2BA78
GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl
Diaspora*: David P. (same XMPP ID)
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