From elcorreo at deshackra.com  Fri Mar  4 01:02:02 2016
From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2016 19:02:02 -0600
Subject: [Dev] "Arch Linux Archive" for Parabola
In-Reply-To: <8760xgpgwb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <56CB5DE6.5010803@airpost.net> <8760xgpgwb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <874mcnginp.fsf@abril.charola>

Well, I updated two weeks ago after not updating for a month, now I get
a lot of systemd services failing at boot, thought my laptop boot and
works fine... but in any case I would challenge your opinion that
"arch/parabola is not that unstable if you pay attention" lol.

El lunes 22 de febrero del 2016 a las 1535 horas, fauno escribi?:

> Bruno Dantas <dantas at airpost.net> writes:
>
>> I would like to donate the hosting cost for Parabola to have something
>> similar to the "Arch Linux Archive"
>> (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux_Archive) collection of
>> snapshots.
>
> this sounds great! i hope someone can have the time to do it :)
>
> thanks bruno!
>
>
> ps: IMO arch/parabola is not that unstable if you pay attention, but
> such sta(b)le repos could be useful not only for downgrading temporarily
> but also for distributing live isos where you don't have to upgrade the
> whole system and deal with possible issues when you just want to install
> a package.  then we can provide a way to "upgrade to the next month" or
> something like that.
>
> i believe we discussed something like this on #parabola a long time ago.


-- 
? Pax et bonum.
Jorge Araya Navarro
https://es.gravatar.com/shackra


From franco.masotti at student.unife.it  Fri Mar  4 13:27:19 2016
From: franco.masotti at student.unife.it (Franco Masotti)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 14:27:19 +0100
Subject: [Dev] "Arch Linux Archive" for Parabola
In-Reply-To: <874mcnginp.fsf@abril.charola>
References: <56CB5DE6.5010803@airpost.net> <8760xgpgwb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <874mcnginp.fsf@abril.charola>
Message-ID: <20160304132719.GA9726@pc-mini-2.unife.it>

Hello,

I'm in the same sitation as yours. Currently I use my laptop less frequently 
than the desktop PC, so I update it about twice a month.
Althought I get a lot of systemd errors at boot, when I type:

$ systemctl --failed --all

I get:

0 loaded units listed.

On the desktop PC I don't have this problem.
So I wonder if that is due to the low frequency of me updating the PC or 
something else...

Anyway I think the idea of the snapshots is good if applied server-like or 
I-don't-bother-changing-config-files-after-updates systems (which is something 
that I actually do, quite often).

On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 07:02:02PM -0600, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote:
> Well, I updated two weeks ago after not updating for a month, now I get
> a lot of systemd services failing at boot, thought my laptop boot and
> works fine... but in any case I would challenge your opinion that
> "arch/parabola is not that unstable if you pay attention" lol.
> 
> El lunes 22 de febrero del 2016 a las 1535 horas, fauno escribi?:
> 
> > Bruno Dantas <dantas at airpost.net> writes:
> >
> >> I would like to donate the hosting cost for Parabola to have something
> >> similar to the "Arch Linux Archive"
> >> (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux_Archive) collection of
> >> snapshots.
> >
> > this sounds great! i hope someone can have the time to do it :)
> >
> > thanks bruno!
> >
> >
> > ps: IMO arch/parabola is not that unstable if you pay attention, but
> > such sta(b)le repos could be useful not only for downgrading temporarily
> > but also for distributing live isos where you don't have to upgrade the
> > whole system and deal with possible issues when you just want to install
> > a package.  then we can provide a way to "upgrade to the next month" or
> > something like that.
> >
> > i believe we discussed something like this on #parabola a long time ago.
> 
> 
> -- 
> ? Pax et bonum.
> Jorge Araya Navarro
> https://es.gravatar.com/shackra
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

-- 
Franco Masotti
My public key fingerprint: F13C 27D7 EDF0 4F7C 0A9F  1244 9A11 29F0 4019 6B95
Get my public key like this: $ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 40196B95
Use Parabola GNU/Linux-libre: <https://www.parabola.nu>
Use GNUpot: <https://github.com/frnmst/gnupot>
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From fturco at fastmail.fm  Sat Mar  5 19:25:18 2016
From: fturco at fastmail.fm (Francesco Turco)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2016 20:25:18 +0100
Subject: [Dev] MAME is now free software
Message-ID: <1457205918.1232596.540570274.0F0C57B3@webmail.messagingengine.com>

According to http://mamedev.org/?p=422 the MAME emulator is now free
software. Will it be included in Parabola now? What about
your-freedom_emu?


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Sun Mar  6 17:32:48 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 14:32:48 -0300
Subject: [Dev] MAME is now free software
In-Reply-To: <1457205918.1232596.540570274.0F0C57B3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1457205918.1232596.540570274.0F0C57B3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <56DC69C0.7060604@riseup.net>

On 03/05/2016 04:25 PM, Francesco Turco wrote:
> According to http://mamedev.org/?p=422 the MAME emulator is now free
> software. Will it be included in Parabola now? What about
> your-freedom_emu?

What about it? -> "Please note that MAME is a registered trademark of
Nicola Salmoria, and permission is required to use the "MAME" name, logo
or wordmark."

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From fturco at fastmail.fm  Mon Mar  7 16:08:29 2016
From: fturco at fastmail.fm (Francesco Turco)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 17:08:29 +0100
Subject: [Dev] MAME is now free software
In-Reply-To: <56DC69C0.7060604@riseup.net>
References: <1457205918.1232596.540570274.0F0C57B3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <56DC69C0.7060604@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20160307170829.8a93217c89ba6fd95f0fb8b6@fastmail.fm>

On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 14:32:48 -0300
Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> wrote:
> What about it? -> "Please note that MAME is a registered trademark of
> Nicola Salmoria, and permission is required to use the "MAME" name, logo
> or wordmark."

isacdaavid renamed MAME to FAME. Please see https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/961 for details.

-- 
Francesco Turco <fturco at fastmail.fm>


From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Mon Mar  7 18:05:38 2016
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 12:05:38 -0600
Subject: [Dev] MAME is now free software
In-Reply-To: <20160307170829.8a93217c89ba6fd95f0fb8b6@fastmail.fm>
References: <1457205918.1232596.540570274.0F0C57B3@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <56DC69C0.7060604@riseup.net>
 <20160307170829.8a93217c89ba6fd95f0fb8b6@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <1457373938.766.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>

In fact it was Gaming4JC and Emulatorman himself who came up with the 
idea. I was just reporting their progress in the bug report.

Greetings.

Le lun. 7 mars 2016 ? 10:08, Francesco Turco <fturco at fastmail.fm> a 
?crit :
> On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 14:32:48 -0300
> Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> wrote:
>>  What about it? -> "Please note that MAME is a registered trademark 
>> of
>>  Nicola Salmoria, and permission is required to use the "MAME" name, 
>> logo
>>  or wordmark."
> 
> isacdaavid renamed MAME to FAME. Please see 
> https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/961 for details.
> 
> --
> Francesco Turco <fturco at fastmail.fm>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
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From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Mon Mar  7 04:20:31 2016
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 23:20:31 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: [rt.cpan.org #112535] Licensing Issue in Perl-FCGI
In-Reply-To: <rt-4.0.18-6906-1457309326-907.112535-6-0@rt.cpan.org>
References: <rt-4.0.18-6906-1457309326-907.112535-6-0@rt.cpan.org>
Message-ID: <56DD018F.6080202@openmailbox.org>

FYI.
https://metacpan.org/source/ETHER/FCGI-0.78/LICENSE

If any legal experts are among us, maybe it is possible to remove this
package from non-free blacklist.


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[rt.cpan.org #112535] Licensing Issue in Perl-FCGI
Date: 	Sun, 6 Mar 2016 19:08:52 -0500
From: 	Karen Etheridge via RT <bug-FCGI at rt.cpan.org>
Reply-To: 	bug-FCGI at rt.cpan.org
To: 	g4jc at openmailbox.org



<URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=112535 >

I have updated the licencing information in the 0.78 release. Please confirm that these changes were adequate and acceptable for your distribution policies.



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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Wed Mar  9 01:39:57 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 22:39:57 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [fisl] can coadde go too?
Message-ID: <8760wwtonm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>


emulatorman was just telling me coadde wants to attend fisl too and he
wants to cover his expenses.  i don't think that's fair, shall we pay
for coadde's trip too? :)

i was also told the hotel room was for two people so that's already
covered, so it's only the extra bus ticket and food i think.

-- 
http://lainventoria.com.ar/
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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Wed Mar  9 04:20:09 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 01:20:09 -0300
Subject: [Dev] =?utf-8?q?Par=C3=A1bola_GNU/Linux-libre_no_FISL?=
In-Reply-To: <56B144E4.6000500@riseup.net>
References: <orlh72n5ti.fsf@livre.home>
 <2053807813.1804.1454450677032.JavaMail.zimbra@softwarelivre.org>
 <56B144E4.6000500@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56DFA479.4000305@riseup.net>

On 02/02/2016 09:08 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 02/02/2016 07:04 PM, Paulo Henrique Santana wrote:
>> ----- Mensagem original -----
>>> De: "lxoliva" <lxoliva at fsfla.org>
>>> Ele quer apresentar uma palestra.  Sugiro encaixar sua palestra como de
>>> convidado e dar algum destaque, j? que n?o ? sempre que temos
>>> mantenedores de distros 100% Livres no FISL ;-)
>>
>> Com certeza! 
>> Ainda n?o estamos com acesso ao sistema, mas quando for liberado, a gente come?a a fazer a parte dos preenchimentos das informa??es.
> 
> Obrigado, quando come?ar os preenchimentos das informa??es me avise pra
> poder dar a confirma??o da participa??o do Parabola na nossa comunidade
> atrav?s do nosso site e da lista de correios, e assim j? come?amos a
> comprar as passagens e arranjar algum hotel.

Ol? Paulo, reparei que j? est?o abertas as inscri??es para palestrantes,
mas tenho uma pergunta pra fazer:

? necess?ria fazer a inscri??o mesmo que a palestra da nossa
distribui??o seja encaixada como de convidada?

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Wed Mar  9 16:15:45 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:15:45 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: [arch-dev-public] DKMS modules for virtualbox
Message-ID: <87mvq7sk3y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>


FYI

-- 
http://partidopirata.com.ar/

-------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
From: S?bastien Luttringer <seblu at seblu.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 02:44:13 +0100
Subject: Re: [arch-dev-public] DKMS modules for virtualbox

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On mer., 2016-03-09 at 10:19 +1000, Allan McRae wrote:
> On 09/03/16 09:29, S?bastien Luttringer wrote:
> > 
> > On dim., 2016-03-06 at 21:41 +1000, Allan McRae wrote:
> > >?
> > > 1) pre pacman-5.0 updates unsupported without any prior notification
> > Interesting. This issue will also be present if we move other stuff like
> > update-desktop-database to hooks, right? Do we have a way to detect pre-
> > pacman
> > 5 update to display a warning or handle it correctly?
> There needs to be a public announcement made that we expected everyone
> to have updated to pacman-5.0 by <insert date here>.??Then we start
> using hooks.
There is no way without breaking people updating their Arch from pacman 4.x
after that random date?

> > We are not a source based distribution.
Debian provides its vbox modules only via dkms and it's not a source
distribution (as far I know).

Not to mention, that we are not providing binary modules for all our kernels,
or all our modules in binary for months and we are stil not a source
distribution.

> > Binary packages should be the default.
It also elegant to default to a package which works with all kernels.

> > As we currently not have the infrastructure to build binaries modules each
> > time
> > a new kernel version (flavoured / versioned) is pushed,?
> Surely that is a five line script...
Please provide it. We are building all our kernel modules manually for years.

How this will work? When I push a new version of virtualbox on svn a builder
will pick the current kernel and build the modules from my dkms version and
push them to the repo? Which key will sign these packages? How this will be
synced with db-update?

We will even be able to provide binary modules for all kernel we have in core
and in cty without much effort.

Cheers,


-- 
S?bastien "Seblu" Luttringer
https://seblu.net | Twitter: @seblu42
GPG: 0x2072D77A

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Wed Mar  9 19:07:44 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 16:07:44 -0300
Subject: [Dev] =?utf-8?q?Par=C3=A1bola_GNU/Linux-libre_no_FISL?=
In-Reply-To: <2093950759.4488.1457527706257.JavaMail.zimbra@softwarelivre.org>
References: <orlh72n5ti.fsf@livre.home>
 <2053807813.1804.1454450677032.JavaMail.zimbra@softwarelivre.org>
 <56B144E4.6000500@riseup.net> <56DFA479.4000305@riseup.net>
 <2093950759.4488.1457527706257.JavaMail.zimbra@softwarelivre.org>
Message-ID: <56E07480.7030601@riseup.net>

On 03/09/2016 09:48 AM, Paulo Henrique Santana wrote:
> Oi Andr?, 
> 
> Sim, ? melhor voc? preencher por l? porque assim os dados j? ficam no nosso banco e depois eu s? confirmo a atividade. Assim ela n?o ir? para a avalia??o p?blica.
> 
> Abra?os,

Blz, j? me cadastrei e preenchi os dados necess?rios como palestrante no
banco de dados :)

Abra?os.

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From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar 10 14:56:30 2016
From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 09:56:30 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: [rt.cpan.org #112535] Licensing Issue in Perl-FCGI
In-Reply-To: <56DD018F.6080202@openmailbox.org>
References: <rt-4.0.18-6906-1457309326-907.112535-6-0@rt.cpan.org>
 <56DD018F.6080202@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <8737ryl6u9.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>

On Sun, 06 Mar 2016 23:20:31 -0500,
Luke wrote:
> FYI.
> https://metacpan.org/source/ETHER/FCGI-0.78/LICENSE
> 
> If any legal experts are among us, maybe it is possible to remove this
> package from non-free blacklist.
> 
> -------- Forwarded Message -------- 
> 
>  Subject:   [rt.cpan.org #112535] Licensing Issue in Perl-FCGI 
>  Date:      Sun, 6 Mar 2016 19:08:52 -0500                     
>  From:      Karen Etheridge via RT <bug-FCGI at rt.cpan.org>      
>  Reply-To:  bug-FCGI at rt.cpan.org                               
>  To:        g4jc at openmailbox.org                               
> 
> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=112535 >
> 
> I have updated the licencing information in the 0.78 release. Please
> confirm that these changes were adequate and acceptable for your
> distribution policies.

The license in 0.78 looks good to me from a freedom perspective.  If I
were them, I'd reword parts of it and have a lawyer look over it (or
just choose a standard license).  But, for Parabola's purposes, it's
fine.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From mtjm at mtjm.eu  Sat Mar 12 11:28:10 2016
From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 12:28:10 +0100
Subject: [Dev] List moderation
Message-ID: <87r3fgvstx.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu>

Hi.

I removed myself from the lists of list owners and moderators here; I'm
not qualified to moderate the non-English mails.  I also changed Postfix
aliases to send root mail to the maintenance list, not to me.
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From nicolasmaia at tutanota.com  Sat Mar 12 12:01:56 2016
From: nicolasmaia at tutanota.com (nicolasmaia at tutanota.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 12:01:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Dev] Using pacman2pacman by default
Message-ID: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com>

Widespread usage of pacman2pacman would greatly reduce the load on our tiny 
number of mirrors, and make us immune to server downtimes. IMO it should be 
bundled by default with all our distro variants.

As Gaming4JC mentioned, this would need to be an option in the installer, in 
case the user has low bandwidth.

Also, I opened a bug report about it: https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/964

What do you think about this proposal?

Nicolas Maia
--
Enviado seguramente pelo Tutanota. Torne sua caixa de correio criptografada 
hoje mesmo!https://tutanota.com
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From ingegnue at riseup.net  Sat Mar 12 14:47:17 2016
From: ingegnue at riseup.net (IngeGNUe)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 09:47:17 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Using pacman2pacman by default
In-Reply-To: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com>
References: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com>
Message-ID: <56E42BF5.7070905@riseup.net>

On 03/12/16 07:01, nicolasmaia at tutanota.com wrote:
> Widespread usage of pacman2pacman would greatly reduce the load on our tiny 
> number of mirrors, and make us immune to server downtimes. IMO it should be 
> bundled by default with all our distro variants.
> 
> As Gaming4JC mentioned, this would need to be an option in the installer, in 
> case the user has low bandwidth.
> 
> Also, I opened a bug report about it: https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/964
> 
> What do you think about this proposal?
> 
> Nicolas Maia
> --
> Enviado seguramente pelo Tutanota. Torne sua caixa de correio criptografada 
> hoje mesmo!https://tutanota.com

I quit using it recently and I'd start using it again if more people
used it. Making it a default package would be a good way to draw
attention to it. But, there are a few issues:

- Any advice on how to filter torrented packages out of
transmission-remote-cli? Currently, they clog up the view! :)
- chmod /var/cache/pacman/pkg/ to 775 instead of 777 per Arch Wiki's
advice:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Transmission#Configuring_the_daemon
-- I can't think of a good reason it's not 775.
- pacman2pacman should meet some quality standards if it is to be
provided by default. Perhaps there is a reason, other than visibility,
that it is not used that much. Therefore, are there any security
weaknesses with its current implementation, apart from the point above?


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Sat Mar 12 16:20:14 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 13:20:14 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Using pacman2pacman by default
In-Reply-To: <56E42BF5.7070905@riseup.net>
References: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com> <56E42BF5.7070905@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <87lh5n3by9.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

IngeGNUe <ingegnue at riseup.net> writes:
>
> I quit using it recently and I'd start using it again if more people
> used it. Making it a default package would be a good way to draw
> attention to it. But, there are a few issues:
>
> - Any advice on how to filter torrented packages out of
> transmission-remote-cli? Currently, they clog up the view! :)
> - chmod /var/cache/pacman/pkg/ to 775 instead of 777 per Arch Wiki's
> advice:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Transmission#Configuring_the_daemon
> -- I can't think of a good reason it's not 775.
> - pacman2pacman should meet some quality standards if it is to be
> provided by default. Perhaps there is a reason, other than visibility,
> that it is not used that much. Therefore, are there any security
> weaknesses with its current implementation, apart from the point above?

i'll try to make time to install it :)

i'm guessing since pacman 5 is out, we can make use of hooks to maintain
the torrent list?

will we need a tracker?

-- 
http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/
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From GNUtoo at no-log.org  Sat Mar 12 17:49:31 2016
From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:49:31 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Using pacman2pacman by default
In-Reply-To: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com>
References: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com>
Message-ID: <20160312184931.1f4a838a@top-laptop>

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 12:01:56 +0000 (GMT)
<nicolasmaia at tutanota.com> wrote:

> Widespread usage of pacman2pacman would greatly reduce the load on
> our tiny number of mirrors, and make us immune to server downtimes.
> IMO it should be bundled by default with all our distro variants.

What are the consequences of that?
- Would people be able to download all their updates this way? Would
  there be some torrent mirrors (available 24/24) to make sure of that?

- Would people be able to get get the latest database in a trusted way? 

- Is pacman2pacman still sequential, or can it download updates in
  parallel?
  If it's still sequential, one slow download will block the rest,
  dramatically reducing its download speed.
  If it's faster, many people would switch to it.
  Some people have more than one machine[2] of the same architecture
  under parabola, and that result in downloading the updates more than
  once.
  Transmission claims to support Local Peer discovery[3], but how to
  verify that it's actually used when using pacman2pacman?
  I didn't succeed in verifying it.

- Security and privacy wise, http(s) works trough Tor. How does that
  compares to the encryption on torrents.
  Personally I use Tor here to make it harder to attack my computers: a
  global attacker monitoring the Internet or a big portion of it would
  have a hard time figuring out if an exploit would work since it
  wouldn't know in advance which packages are installed and which
  version (to know if they are up to date or not).
  To contrast that, note that Parabola, and Arch don't have good
  policies dealing with building the packages[1].

References:
-----------
[1] We don't have reproducible builds, and, as I understand it,
    individual developers upload their binary packages.
    Since Arch ships non-free software, this isn't good at all for
    security, since their developers probably uses that too.
    It also result in a multiple point of failure, any of the developers
    might (knowing it or not) upload compromised packages.
    Is I understand it, we use many of their packages as-is.
[2] Physical or virtual.
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Peer_Discovery

Denis.
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From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Sat Mar 12 18:22:11 2016
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 13:22:11 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Using pacman2pacman by default
In-Reply-To: <20160312184931.1f4a838a@top-laptop>
References: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com> <20160312184931.1f4a838a@top-laptop>
Message-ID: <56E45E53.8070101@openmailbox.org>

On 03/12/2016 12:49 PM, Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli wrote:
>
> What are the consequences of that?
> - Would people be able to download all their updates this way? Would
>   there be some torrent mirrors (available 24/24) to make sure of that?

We could use webseeds for this, but due to limitations of bittorrent it
is HTTP only. That is rather insecure overall...
>
> - Would people be able to get get the latest database in a trusted way? 
Good question.
>
> - Is pacman2pacman still sequential, or can it download updates in
>   parallel?
>   If it's still sequential, one slow download will block the rest,
>   dramatically reducing its download speed.
>   If it's faster, many people would switch to it.
>   Some people have more than one machine[2] of the same architecture
>   under parabola, and that result in downloading the updates more than
>   once.
>   Transmission claims to support Local Peer discovery[3], but how to
>   verify that it's actually used when using pacman2pacman?
>   I didn't succeed in verifying it.
>
> - Security and privacy wise, http(s) works trough Tor. How does that
>   compares to the encryption on torrents.
>   Personally I use Tor here to make it harder to attack my computers: a
>   global attacker monitoring the Internet or a big portion of it would
>   have a hard time figuring out if an exploit would work since it
>   wouldn't know in advance which packages are installed and which
>   version (to know if they are up to date or not).
>   To contrast that, note that Parabola, and Arch don't have good
>   policies dealing with building the packages[1].
No idea. Transmission does allow for encryption, not sure how good it
is. It is not made for anonymity by nature.

You brought up some good points. :)
>
> References:
> -----------
> [1] We don't have reproducible builds, and, as I understand it,
>     individual developers upload their binary packages.
>     Since Arch ships non-free software, this isn't good at all for
>     security, since their developers probably uses that too.
>     It also result in a multiple point of failure, any of the developers
>     might (knowing it or not) upload compromised packages.
>     Is I understand it, we use many of their packages as-is.
> [2] Physical or virtual.
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Peer_Discovery
>
> Denis.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

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From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Sat Mar 12 18:48:13 2016
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 18:48:13 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Using pacman2pacman by default
In-Reply-To: <56E45E53.8070101@openmailbox.org>
References: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com> <20160312184931.1f4a838a@top-laptop>
 <56E45E53.8070101@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <56E4646D.4010303@gmail.com>

On 12/03/16 18:22, Luke wrote:
> On 03/12/2016 12:49 PM, Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli wrote:
>>
>> What are the consequences of that?
>> - Would people be able to download all their updates this way? Would
>>    there be some torrent mirrors (available 24/24) to make sure of that?
>
> We could use webseeds for this, but due to limitations of bittorrent it
> is HTTP only. That is rather insecure overall...

HTTP is not so much of a problem with security with torrents, so long as 
the torrent files or magnet links are distributed securely, as it works 
by cryptographic hashes.

Anonymity is still be an issue though.


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Sun Mar 13 05:44:37 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 02:44:37 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Using pacman2pacman by default
In-Reply-To: <20160312184931.1f4a838a@top-laptop>
References: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com> <20160312184931.1f4a838a@top-laptop>
Message-ID: <878u1n2apm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli <GNUtoo at no-log.org> writes:
> [1] We don't have reproducible builds, and, as I understand it,

there're some advances on this on arch's side, iirc i've forwarded some
emails from arch-dev-public

maybe you could contact arch's referents on reproducible builds to see
how we can helps this process?

>     individual developers upload their binary packages.
>     Since Arch ships non-free software, this isn't good at all for
>     security, since their developers probably uses that too.
>     It also result in a multiple point of failure, any of the developers
>     might (knowing it or not) upload compromised packages.
>     Is I understand it, we use many of their packages as-is.

packages are supposed to be built on clean chroots :P

-- 
http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/
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From alfplayer at mailoo.org  Sun Mar 13 20:57:45 2016
From: alfplayer at mailoo.org (Esteban Carnevale)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:57:45 -0300
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
Message-ID: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>

A new release has been uploaded to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/ [1] but
https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola is not updated. Should it be done?


-- 
Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org> 

Links:
------
[1] https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/latest/
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From alfplayer at mailoo.org  Sun Mar 13 21:22:42 2016
From: alfplayer at mailoo.org (Esteban Carnevale)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:22:42 -0300
Subject: [Dev] List moderation
In-Reply-To: <87r3fgvstx.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu>
References: <87r3fgvstx.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu>
Message-ID: <1d65f6e6e71b8f244c589143089c2b3e@mailoo.org>

On 2016-03-12 08:28, mtjm at mtjm.eu wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I removed myself from the lists of list owners and moderators here; I'm
> not qualified to moderate the non-English mails.  I also changed 
> Postfix
> aliases to send root mail to the maintenance list, not to me.


I'm available to moderate.


-- 
Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org>


From elcorreo at deshackra.com  Sun Mar 13 23:58:54 2016
From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:58:54 -0600
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
Message-ID: <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola>

I guess it should be updated...

El domingo 13 de marzo del 2016 a las 1457 horas, Esteban Carnevale escribi?:

> A new release has been uploaded to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/ [1] but
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola is not updated. Should it be done?


-- 
? Pax et bonum.
Jorge Araya Navarro
https://es.gravatar.com/shackra


From alfplayer at mailoo.org  Mon Mar 14 00:55:02 2016
From: alfplayer at mailoo.org (Esteban Carnevale)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 21:55:02 -0300
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
 <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola>
Message-ID: <122bccbe1b68ba41afbb419b77b9e1c0@mailoo.org>

On 2016-03-13 20:58, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote:
> I guess it should be updated...
> 
> El domingo 13 de marzo del 2016 a las 1457 horas, Esteban Carnevale 
> escribi?:
> 
>> A new release has been uploaded to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/ [1] 
>> but
>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola is not updated. Should it be 
>> done?


I haven't seen any announcement, not even on IRC. Can the uploader show 
up, please? Is it Jorginho?

-- 
Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org>


From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Mon Mar 14 03:12:58 2016
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 23:12:58 -0400
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <122bccbe1b68ba41afbb419b77b9e1c0@mailoo.org>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
 <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola> <122bccbe1b68ba41afbb419b77b9e1c0@mailoo.org>
Message-ID: <56E62C3A.2050608@openmailbox.org>

On 03/13/2016 08:55 PM, Esteban Carnevale wrote:
> On 2016-03-13 20:58, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote:
>> I guess it should be updated...
>>
>> El domingo 13 de marzo del 2016 a las 1457 horas, Esteban Carnevale
>> escribi?:
>>
>>> A new release has been uploaded to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/ [1]
>>> but
>>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola is not updated. Should it be
>>> done?
>
>
> I haven't seen any announcement, not even on IRC. Can the uploader
> show up, please? Is it Jorginho?
>
Pretty sure the latest one was by icarious - The MATE LiveCD was the
last one he did, you can check GPG signature for verification. It's the
one currently in IRC Title.


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From alfplayer at mailoo.org  Mon Mar 14 08:42:40 2016
From: alfplayer at mailoo.org (Esteban Carnevale)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 05:42:40 -0300
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <56E62C3A.2050608@openmailbox.org>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
 <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola> <122bccbe1b68ba41afbb419b77b9e1c0@mailoo.org>
 <56E62C3A.2050608@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <3cb9e8c4008924907d4686d07af59b10@mailoo.org>

On 2016-03-14 00:12, Luke wrote:
> On 03/13/2016 08:55 PM, Esteban Carnevale wrote:
>> On 2016-03-13 20:58, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote:
>>> I guess it should be updated...
>>> 
>>> El domingo 13 de marzo del 2016 a las 1457 horas, Esteban Carnevale
>>> escribi?:
>>> 
>>>> A new release has been uploaded to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/ [1]
>>>> but
>>>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola is not updated. Should it be
>>>> done?
>> 
>> 
>> I haven't seen any announcement, not even on IRC. Can the uploader
>> show up, please? Is it Jorginho?
>> 
> Pretty sure the latest one was by icarious - The MATE LiveCD was the
> last one he did, you can check GPG signature for verification. It's the
> one currently in IRC Title.

I'm referring to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/2016.03.10/ which is 
linked from https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/latest/. It doesn't have any 
signature. The /topic only mentions the Mate release.


-- 
Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org>


From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Mon Mar 14 12:37:20 2016
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 08:37:20 -0400
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <3cb9e8c4008924907d4686d07af59b10@mailoo.org>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
 <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola> <122bccbe1b68ba41afbb419b77b9e1c0@mailoo.org>
 <56E62C3A.2050608@openmailbox.org>
 <3cb9e8c4008924907d4686d07af59b10@mailoo.org>
Message-ID: <56E6B080.7060608@openmailbox.org>

On 03/14/2016 04:42 AM, Esteban Carnevale wrote:
> On 2016-03-14 00:12, Luke wrote:
>> On 03/13/2016 08:55 PM, Esteban Carnevale wrote:
>>> On 2016-03-13 20:58, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote:
>>>> I guess it should be updated...
>>>>
>>>> El domingo 13 de marzo del 2016 a las 1457 horas, Esteban Carnevale
>>>> escribi?:
>>>>
>>>>> A new release has been uploaded to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/ [1]
>>>>> but
>>>>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola is not updated. Should it be
>>>>> done?
>>>
>>>
>>> I haven't seen any announcement, not even on IRC. Can the uploader
>>> show up, please? Is it Jorginho?
>>>
>> Pretty sure the latest one was by icarious - The MATE LiveCD was the
>> last one he did, you can check GPG signature for verification. It's the
>> one currently in IRC Title.
>
> I'm referring to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/2016.03.10/ which is
> linked from https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/latest/. It doesn't have any
> signature. The /topic only mentions the Mate release.
>
>
Ah I didn't realize this: I wouldn't trust unsigned iso, we need to make
sure whomever uploads ISO provides signature + SHA256 at a minimum (See
the recent Linux Mint hack for a good example why)

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Tue Mar 15 01:10:43 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 22:10:43 -0300
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <56E6B080.7060608@openmailbox.org>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
 <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola> <122bccbe1b68ba41afbb419b77b9e1c0@mailoo.org>
 <56E62C3A.2050608@openmailbox.org>
 <3cb9e8c4008924907d4686d07af59b10@mailoo.org>
 <56E6B080.7060608@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87io0o1r70.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> writes:
>> I'm referring to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/2016.03.10/ which is
>> linked from https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/latest/. It doesn't have any
>> signature. The /topic only mentions the Mate release.
>>
>>
> Ah I didn't realize this: I wouldn't trust unsigned iso, we need to make
> sure whomever uploads ISO provides signature + SHA256 at a minimum (See
> the recent Linux Mint hack for a good example why)

how is it not worrying that a new iso appears and it isn't signed nor
announced? D:

please reinstate the old one!

-- 
http://partidopirata.com.ar/
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From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Tue Mar 15 01:58:47 2016
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 21:58:47 -0400
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <87io0o1r70.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
 <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola> <122bccbe1b68ba41afbb419b77b9e1c0@mailoo.org>
 <56E62C3A.2050608@openmailbox.org>
 <3cb9e8c4008924907d4686d07af59b10@mailoo.org>
 <56E6B080.7060608@openmailbox.org> <87io0o1r70.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <56E76C57.9080508@openmailbox.org>

On 03/14/2016 09:10 PM, fauno wrote:
> Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> writes:
>>> I'm referring to https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/2016.03.10/ which is
>>> linked from https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/latest/. It doesn't have any
>>> signature. The /topic only mentions the Mate release.
>>>
>>>
>> Ah I didn't realize this: I wouldn't trust unsigned iso, we need to make
>> sure whomever uploads ISO provides signature + SHA256 at a minimum (See
>> the recent Linux Mint hack for a good example why)
> how is it not worrying that a new iso appears and it isn't signed nor
> announced? D:
>
> please reinstate the old one!
>

Based on the fact no one has come forward and signed the package, it is
a little worrying. We need to audit and figure out who uploaded this in
the first place. If it was not from a trusted developer we should assume
there may have been a security breach and proceed accordingly.



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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Tue Mar 15 15:44:35 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:44:35 -0300
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <56E76C57.9080508@openmailbox.org>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
 <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola> <122bccbe1b68ba41afbb419b77b9e1c0@mailoo.org>
 <56E62C3A.2050608@openmailbox.org>
 <3cb9e8c4008924907d4686d07af59b10@mailoo.org>
 <56E6B080.7060608@openmailbox.org> <87io0o1r70.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <56E76C57.9080508@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <877fh321b0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> writes:
>
> Based on the fact no one has come forward and signed the package, it is
> a little worrying. We need to audit and figure out who uploaded this in
> the first place. If it was not from a trusted developer we should assume
> there may have been a security breach and proceed accordingly.

i reinstated 2015.11.11 as the latest but haven't removed the unsigned
iso if you want to analyze it.

i'm guessing someone just didn't noticed that isos must be signed :P

-- 
 D
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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Wed Mar 16 17:43:52 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 14:43:52 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Gaming4JC supports Parabola with donations to coadde
Message-ID: <56E99B58.6020205@riseup.net>

Hi guys, since BeagleBone Black has been donated for coadde [0], now it
works well with our Parabola ARM version [1], also with support to
Extlinux support for multiple kernels booting [2] (GRUB port is still in
development process by GRUB guys, therefore we need wait for them to
continue with our port yet).

Gaming4JC that is one of our current hackers [3] has donated the CHIP
hardware [4] to be included to Parabola ARM porting for coadde.
Also, he sent a netbook (Dell Latitude 2110), a wifi usb adapter
(Netgear WNA1100) and stickers to help coadde represent Parabola at FISL
event that will be realized around July. I want thank to him for his
contribution and i'm adding it to Donations page.[5]

Since he had difficulties to sent it to Montevideo directly. coadde got
a service called Miami-Box [6] who gave him a physical address in Miami
to receive shipments, then they ship it to Montevideo. Also customs
bureaucracy are handled by them.

Therefore, since coadde has that service available, Gaming4JC sent the
shipment to his physical address in Miami. Yesterday, it has been
arrived to Miami and now it is in transit to be shipped (through
Miami-Box) to coadde's destination. I'll let you know of any news and
current happenings.

Thanks for Gaming4JC and you for making this possible!!!

Cheers,
Andr?

[0]:https://www.parabola.nu/news/robofun-sponsors-parabola-arm-port-with-a-bbb-board/
[1]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/ARM_Installation_Guide#U-Boot
[2]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/ARM_Installation_Guide#U-Boot4Extlinux
[3]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/#Gaming4JC
[4]:http://docs.getchip.com/
[5]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Thanks.21
[6]:https://www.miami-box.com/

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From coadde at riseup.net  Wed Mar 16 18:16:18 2016
From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 18:16:18 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Gaming4JC supports Parabola with donations to coadde
In-Reply-To: <56E99B58.6020205@riseup.net>
References: <56E99B58.6020205@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56E9A2F2.7010202@riseup.net>

Andr? Silva:
> Thanks for Gaming4JC and you for making this possible!!!

I want thank to Gaming4JC for the donations too and i'll let you know
when receive them. Thanks again!!!

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Mar 17 06:37:12 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 03:37:12 -0300
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <877fh321b0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
 <87d1qynd4x.fsf@abril.charola> <122bccbe1b68ba41afbb419b77b9e1c0@mailoo.org>
 <56E62C3A.2050608@openmailbox.org>
 <3cb9e8c4008924907d4686d07af59b10@mailoo.org>
 <56E6B080.7060608@openmailbox.org> <87io0o1r70.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <56E76C57.9080508@openmailbox.org> <877fh321b0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <56EA5098.6050500@riseup.net>

On 03/15/2016 12:44 PM, fauno wrote:
> Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> writes:
>>
>> Based on the fact no one has come forward and signed the package, it is
>> a little worrying. We need to audit and figure out who uploaded this in
>> the first place. If it was not from a trusted developer we should assume
>> there may have been a security breach and proceed accordingly.
> 
> i reinstated 2015.11.11 as the latest but haven't removed the unsigned
> iso if you want to analyze it.
> 
> i'm guessing someone just didn't noticed that isos must be signed :P

I pushed new isos signed by me, please let me know if works well.

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From alfplayer at mailoo.org  Thu Mar 17 17:00:34 2016
From: alfplayer at mailoo.org (Esteban Carnevale)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:00:34 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Server crashes can be OOMs
In-Reply-To: <20160317121826.Yvb_rjUaWrw=%alfplayer@parabola.nu>
References: <20160317121826.Yvb_rjUaWrw=%alfplayer@parabola.nu>
Message-ID: <7100293436b4d45d2face5b79eee07b5@mailoo.org>

Memory on the server is normally ~ 50 %. Sometimes Labs Ruby processes
are executed which use ~ 30 % total. I've seen Parabolaweb use ~ 10 %,
so if these two, and possibly others, take memory at the same time, the
server can go out of memory. Is this acceptable for Labs?

Examples of "sar -r" and "top -o %MEM" with high Labs memory usage on
the file attached.


-- 
Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org>
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Mar 17 17:45:01 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:45:01 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Server crashes can be OOMs
In-Reply-To: <7100293436b4d45d2face5b79eee07b5@mailoo.org>
References: <20160317121826.Yvb_rjUaWrw=%alfplayer@parabola.nu>
 <7100293436b4d45d2face5b79eee07b5@mailoo.org>
Message-ID: <87y49hvw0y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org> writes:

> Memory on the server is normally ~ 50 %. Sometimes Labs Ruby processes
> are executed which use ~ 30 % total. I've seen Parabolaweb use ~ 10 %,
> so if these two, and possibly others, take memory at the same time, the
> server can go out of memory. Is this acceptable for Labs?
>
> Examples of "sar -r" and "top -o %MEM" with high Labs memory usage on
> the file attached.

some memleaks may be solved if we upgraded the server more often :P

-- 
http://endefensadelsl.org/
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From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar 17 18:07:11 2016
From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:07:11 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Server crashes can be OOMs
In-Reply-To: <87y49hvw0y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <20160317121826.Yvb_rjUaWrw=%alfplayer@parabola.nu>
 <7100293436b4d45d2face5b79eee07b5@mailoo.org>
 <87y49hvw0y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <87shzpc71s.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:45:01 -0400,
fauno wrote:
> Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org> writes:
> 
> > Memory on the server is normally ~ 50 %. Sometimes Labs Ruby processes
> > are executed which use ~ 30 % total. I've seen Parabolaweb use ~ 10 %,
> > so if these two, and possibly others, take memory at the same time, the
> > server can go out of memory. Is this acceptable for Labs?
> >
> > Examples of "sar -r" and "top -o %MEM" with high Labs memory usage on
> > the file attached.
> 
> some memleaks may be solved if we upgraded the server more often :P

Also, Rails (Labs) is just a huge memory hog.  And as long as we're
running an application that uses Rails, that's never going to change.
Perhaps we configure Redmine's cgroup to have a maximum memory usage,
such that it can't affect the rest of the system?

I only expect ParabolaWeb's memory usage to go up when a bunch of
packages have just been updated.

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From alfplayer at mailoo.org  Thu Mar 17 18:17:32 2016
From: alfplayer at mailoo.org (Esteban Carnevale)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:17:32 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Server crashes can be OOMs
In-Reply-To: <7100293436b4d45d2face5b79eee07b5@mailoo.org>
References: <20160317121826.Yvb_rjUaWrw=%alfplayer@parabola.nu>
 <7100293436b4d45d2face5b79eee07b5@mailoo.org>
Message-ID: <2fef8ecaf6bdfd036ad5b2d1faaab5f8@mailoo.org>

On 2016-03-17 14:00, Esteban Carnevale wrote:
> Memory on the server is normally ~ 50 %. Sometimes Labs Ruby processes
> are executed which use ~ 30 % total. I've seen Parabolaweb use ~ 10 %,
> so if these two, and possibly others, take memory at the same time, the
> server can go out of memory. Is this acceptable for Labs?
> 
> Examples of "sar -r" and "top -o %MEM" with high Labs memory usage on
> the file attached.

Parabolaweb alone taking 50 % later today (shown on attached file).
It's an OOM waiting to happen. I think I'll reboot it any minute now
as I lack a better idea.


-- 
Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org>
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Mar 17 18:27:52 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:27:52 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Server crashes can be OOMs
In-Reply-To: <87shzpc71s.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20160317121826.Yvb_rjUaWrw=%alfplayer@parabola.nu>
 <7100293436b4d45d2face5b79eee07b5@mailoo.org>
 <87y49hvw0y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87shzpc71s.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <87vb4lvu1j.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Luke Shumaker <lukeshu at sbcglobal.net> writes:

> Also, Rails (Labs) is just a huge memory hog.  And as long as we're
> running an application that uses Rails, that's never going to change.
> Perhaps we configure Redmine's cgroup to have a maximum memory usage,
> such that it can't affect the rest of the system?
>
> I only expect ParabolaWeb's memory usage to go up when a bunch of
> packages have just been updated.

it may need an upgrade too, i run rails apps and they don't consume that
many memory

-- 
http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Thu Mar 17 18:29:21 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:29:21 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Server crashes can be OOMs
In-Reply-To: <2fef8ecaf6bdfd036ad5b2d1faaab5f8@mailoo.org>
References: <20160317121826.Yvb_rjUaWrw=%alfplayer@parabola.nu>
 <7100293436b4d45d2face5b79eee07b5@mailoo.org>
 <2fef8ecaf6bdfd036ad5b2d1faaab5f8@mailoo.org>
Message-ID: <87r3f9vtz2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org> writes:

> On 2016-03-17 14:00, Esteban Carnevale wrote:
>> Memory on the server is normally ~ 50 %. Sometimes Labs Ruby processes
>> are executed which use ~ 30 % total. I've seen Parabolaweb use ~ 10 %,
>> so if these two, and possibly others, take memory at the same time, the
>> server can go out of memory. Is this acceptable for Labs?
>> 
>> Examples of "sar -r" and "top -o %MEM" with high Labs memory usage on
>> the file attached.
>
> Parabolaweb alone taking 50 % later today (shown on attached file).
> It's an OOM waiting to happen. I think I'll reboot it any minute now
> as I lack a better idea.

btw as a quick fix you can configure monit to monitor parabolaweb's by
pid and restart it when ram usage is over certain threshold.

-- 
http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/
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From alfplayer at mailoo.org  Fri Mar 18 14:19:29 2016
From: alfplayer at mailoo.org (Esteban Carnevale)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 11:19:29 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Server crashes can be OOMs
In-Reply-To: <87r3f9vtz2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <20160317121826.Yvb_rjUaWrw=%alfplayer@parabola.nu>
 <7100293436b4d45d2face5b79eee07b5@mailoo.org>
 <2fef8ecaf6bdfd036ad5b2d1faaab5f8@mailoo.org>
 <87r3f9vtz2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <6c1dfc5b0cc67be24353b12ea0f56540@mailoo.org>

On 2016-03-17 15:29, fauno wrote:
> Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org> writes:
> 
>> On 2016-03-17 14:00, Esteban Carnevale wrote:
>>> Memory on the server is normally ~ 50 %. Sometimes Labs Ruby 
>>> processes
>>> are executed which use ~ 30 % total. I've seen Parabolaweb use ~ 10 
>>> %,
>>> so if these two, and possibly others, take memory at the same time, 
>>> the
>>> server can go out of memory. Is this acceptable for Labs?
>>> 
>>> Examples of "sar -r" and "top -o %MEM" with high Labs memory usage on
>>> the file attached.
>> 
>> Parabolaweb alone taking 50 % later today (shown on attached file).
>> It's an OOM waiting to happen. I think I'll reboot it any minute now
>> as I lack a better idea.
> 
> btw as a quick fix you can configure monit to monitor parabolaweb's by
> pid and restart it when ram usage is over certain threshold.

It reached 90 %. I restarted parabolaweb some minutes ago. Let's see
how much it helps.


-- 
Esteban Carnevale <alfplayer at mailoo.org>


From nobody at parabola.nu  Fri Mar 18 18:56:15 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:56:15 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre-lts] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160318185615.21370.36557@parabola.nu>

jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* linux-libre-lts 4.1.19_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts/
* linux-libre-lts 4.1.19_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts/
* linux-libre-lts 4.1.19_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts/
* linux-libre-lts-docs 4.1.19_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-docs/
* linux-libre-lts-docs 4.1.19_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-docs/
* linux-libre-lts-docs 4.1.19_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-docs/
* linux-libre-lts-headers 4.1.19_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-headers/
* linux-libre-lts-headers 4.1.19_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-headers/
* linux-libre-lts-headers 4.1.19_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-headers/


The user provided the following additional text:

Upstream updated



From GNUtoo at no-log.org  Sat Mar 19 11:10:24 2016
From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 12:10:24 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Using pacman2pacman by default
In-Reply-To: <878u1n2apm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <KCeh4AW--3-0@tutanota.com> <20160312184931.1f4a838a@top-laptop>
 <878u1n2apm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <20160319121024.14b70b94@top-laptop>

On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 02:44:37 -0300
fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org> wrote:

> packages are supposed to be built on clean chroots :P
I didn't know.

That makes it less vulnerable to non-targeted attacks and easier to
have it reproducible.

Denis.
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From GNUtoo at no-log.org  Sat Mar 19 11:04:58 2016
From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 12:04:58 +0100
Subject: [Dev] Parabola infrastructure server and its hosting.
Message-ID: <20160319120458.1859a4bc@top-laptop>

Hi,

Since we have:
-> Highly insecure packages (they are compiled and uploaded by
   individual developers[1], including arch developers[2]).
-> VM issues.
-> Bandwidth and server load issues.

Why not asking some entity like the FSF for a server to build the
packages and host parabola's infrastructure (the bug tracker for
instance).

Since the FSF is located in the US:
-> We can trust the FSF
-> We might not want to trust US's law regarding surveillance.
-> Our packages would have to abide absurd laws such as the DMCA, so we
   would probably need to host packages like libdvdcss outside of the
   US.
-> Since software patents are now very weak in the US, we might want
   not to remove functionality known to be risky patent-wise.
-> We also might want to contact the FSF and/or the SFLC for the legal
   issues.

References:
-----------
[1] Assuming we trust all Parabola developers, that means that the
    developer(s) with the weakest security can be used as a vector to
    compromise all parabola users. Sometimes that can be dead easy.
[2] We can suppose that at least some of the arch developers run
    proprietary software on the machine they used to build the packages
    they uploaded.

Denis.
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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Mar 21 03:42:37 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 00:42:37 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
Message-ID: <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net>

On 03/20/2016 10:30 AM, Enrique wrote:
>   * What would be the quickest way to check if the libraries in txt
>     attached are opensource 100% free of binary blobls ?

I suggest use our distro Parabola GNU/Linux-libre instead, since it is a
libre software project aiming to provide a fully free as in freedom
distribution based on the packages of the Arch distribution where the
primary goal is to give the user complete control over their system with
100% Libre software.[0] Also, Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is listed by the
Free Software Foundation as a fully free software distribution. [1]

>   * Any recomendation about low cost 100% free blob ARM/386 board we can
>     use to install or embebd like libre-kernel?

Coadde and me received Beaglebone Black to maintain the bootloader and
kernel packages for Parabola ARM for those type of boards [2], in my
personal point of view is a good board to be used. We are supporting
another ARMv7 boards too, since that it is being supported through
uboot, uboot + Extlinux support (Beaglebone Black was tested and works
well) and uboot + GRUB support (it is under developing yet) [3]

Otherwise, Gaming4JC donated to us a CHIP hardware (it costs just U$ 9!)
to begin create a specific uboot, uboot+extlinux and GRUB package for it
to works Parabola on that board [4].

>   * Would know anybody in your circle freelancer willing to make/porting
>     this apps working in librekernel over ARM?
>   * We need support asap to create a woking group to make that possible,
>     budget in consideration process.

We could do it through our distro since we have a fully free as in
freedom ARMv7 version that is working well. What do you think?

>   * What you consider we could use to coordinate a group of people ina
>     team additionally to Redmine,Dokuwiki?

We are using our report bugs site through Redmine [5] and another ways
like git [6] and devs lists [7] to coordinate it, i suggest use those
ways for it :)

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Main_Page
[1]:https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/parabola-gnu-linux-joins-the-fsf-list-of-free-distributions
[2]:https://www.parabola.nu/news/robofun-sponsors-parabola-arm-port-with-a-bbb-board/
[3]:https://www.parabola.nu/packages/?q=uboot
[4]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003848.html
[5]:https://labs.parabola.nu/
[6]:https://projects.parabola.nu/
[7]:https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Mar 21 19:56:17 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:56:17 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>

On 03/21/2016 07:27 AM, Enrique wrote:
> I can donate you 3 odroids xu4 xu3 c1plus

Cool, thanks, since those boards will be useful for Uboot+Extlinux and
Uboot+GRUB packaging.

> Also let you know that Beglebone black has abinary blob undocumented in
> the rom.

I think you mean about a blob called "am335x-pm-firmware.elf" for
Beaglebone Black that we deblobbed in our RCN patch [0]

> So what i undertood from your below answer is that positively you and
> your working team
> can help us to addapt parabola to any ARM board plus adjust the APPs? i
> am right?

Yes, you're right, since some months ago, we announced about it
officially on our main site [1]

> We found a board that seems 100% free of opesource (not as seems
> initially minnowbard) it is this
> one:http://www.lenovator.com/product/90.html

Seems 100% libre, however i would know about if that wifi uses a module
without blobs.

> Are you able guys to build a team and find a project manager or
> coordinator for our subproject?

I think so, it shouldn't be a problem though...

> Whih budget you need to be pushing hard?

We let you know about it, since we need make a consensus about it first.

[0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-September/003230.html
[1]:https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-supports-armv7


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From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Mon Mar 21 20:32:08 2016
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 14:32:08 -0600
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net> <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>



Le lun. 21 mars 2016 ? 13:56, Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> a 
?crit :
> On 03/21/2016 07:27 AM, Enrique wrote:
>>  I can donate you 3 odroids xu4 xu3 c1plus
> 
> 
>>  So what i undertood from your below answer is that positively you 
>> and
>>  your working team
>>  can help us to addapt parabola to any ARM board plus adjust the 
>> APPs? i
>>  am right?
> Yes, you're right, since some months ago, we announced about it
> officially on our main site [1]

Adjust Parabola to work with _any_ ARM board and adapt/accept _any_ 
application?
(I guess by "adjusting the apps" Enrique is also referring to adding 
custom packages
to something like [pcr])

This needs more clarification:

For most boards we would probably be able to boot Linux-libre and run a 
normal
Parabola GNU/Linux system, but I suspect there may be some others that 
_require_
custom (and even nonfree) kernels to even work at all!

But there's something else we all know for sure we won't be able to 
support: bootloaders.
Platforms like Samsung Exynos _need_ nonfree and signed bootloaders to 
work at all. Users
are alone making sure they can boot Parabola from a proprietary 
bootloader. I mention this
because I also received Enrique's previous mail off-list days ago, and 
if I recall correctly he
is concerned with keeping things 100% free for his project. We can't 
magically free all the
software in the odroids.
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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Mar 21 20:50:53 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 17:50:53 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net> <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
 <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <56F05EAD.9070307@riseup.net>

On 03/21/2016 05:32 PM, Isaac David wrote:
> Adjust Parabola to work with _any_ ARM board and adapt/accept _any_
> application?
> (I guess by "adjusting the apps" Enrique is also referring to adding
> custom packages
> to something like [pcr])
> 
> This needs more clarification:
> 
> For most boards we would probably be able to boot Linux-libre and run a
> normal
> Parabola GNU/Linux system, but I suspect there may be some others that
> _require_
> custom (and even nonfree) kernels to even work at all!
> 
> But there's something else we all know for sure we won't be able to
> support: bootloaders.
> Platforms like Samsung Exynos _need_ nonfree and signed bootloaders to
> work at all. Users
> are alone making sure they can boot Parabola from a proprietary
> bootloader. I mention this
> because I also received Enrique's previous mail off-list days ago, and
> if I recall correctly he
> is concerned with keeping things 100% free for his project. We can't
> magically free all the
> software in the odroids.

FSF says that "Odroid-X, Odroid-X2, Odroid-U, Odroid-U2" requires
nonfree startup software since it uses the Samsung Exynos SoC [0],
however Enrique means about Odroid-XU4, Odroid-XU3 and Odriod-C1plus
that are other models and we should check if those boards don't uses the
Samsung Exynos SoC and can boot up from U-Boot ...

[0]:https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Mar 21 20:58:53 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 17:58:53 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F05EAD.9070307@riseup.net>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net> <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
 <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <56F05EAD.9070307@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F0608D.6050201@riseup.net>

On 03/21/2016 05:50 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 03/21/2016 05:32 PM, Isaac David wrote:
>> Adjust Parabola to work with _any_ ARM board and adapt/accept _any_
>> application?
>> (I guess by "adjusting the apps" Enrique is also referring to adding
>> custom packages
>> to something like [pcr])
>>
>> This needs more clarification:
>>
>> For most boards we would probably be able to boot Linux-libre and run a
>> normal
>> Parabola GNU/Linux system, but I suspect there may be some others that
>> _require_
>> custom (and even nonfree) kernels to even work at all!
>>
>> But there's something else we all know for sure we won't be able to
>> support: bootloaders.
>> Platforms like Samsung Exynos _need_ nonfree and signed bootloaders to
>> work at all. Users
>> are alone making sure they can boot Parabola from a proprietary
>> bootloader. I mention this
>> because I also received Enrique's previous mail off-list days ago, and
>> if I recall correctly he
>> is concerned with keeping things 100% free for his project. We can't
>> magically free all the
>> software in the odroids.
> 
> FSF says that "Odroid-X, Odroid-X2, Odroid-U, Odroid-U2" requires
> nonfree startup software since it uses the Samsung Exynos SoC [0],
> however Enrique means about Odroid-XU4, Odroid-XU3 and Odriod-C1plus
> that are other models and we should check if those boards don't uses the
> Samsung Exynos SoC and can boot up from U-Boot ...
> 
> [0]:https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers

I'm reading in Arch ARM site that Odroid-XU4 [0] and Odroid-XU3 [1] uses
Samsung Exynos SoC and therefore it requires nonfree startup software to
works, however Odroid-C1 [2] uses Amlogic SoC instead. We should looking
for more info about Amlogic SoC if doesn't need nonfree stuff to bootup.

[0]:https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/samsung/odroid-xu3
[1]:https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/samsung/odroid-xu4
[2]:https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/amlogic/odroid-c1


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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Mar 21 21:12:43 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:12:43 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net> <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
 <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <56F063CB.8000701@riseup.net>

On 03/21/2016 05:32 PM, Isaac David wrote:
> 
> 
> Le lun. 21 mars 2016 ? 13:56, Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> a ?crit :
>> On 03/21/2016 07:27 AM, Enrique wrote:
>>
>>     I can donate you 3 odroids xu4 xu3 c1plus 
>>
>>
>>     So what i undertood from your below answer is that positively you
>>     and your working team can help us to addapt parabola to any ARM
>>     board plus adjust the APPs? i am right?
>> Yes, you're right, since some months ago, we announced about it
>> officially on our main site [1]
> 
> Adjust Parabola to work with _any_ ARM board and adapt/accept _any_
> application?
> (I guess by "adjusting the apps" Enrique is also referring to adding
> custom packages
> to something like [pcr])

We suppose that adapt/accept _any_ application since it follows our
Social Contract [0] through our first amendment where means that
Parabola follows the GNU free system distribution guidelines [1] and
doesn't include or recommend nonfree software or documentation and it
does not provide any type of support for their installation or execution
because we are fully free as in freedom distribution endorsed by FSF [2]

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre_Social_Contract
[1]:https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html
[2]:https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/parabola-gnu-linux-joins-the-fsf-list-of-free-distributions

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Mon Mar 21 21:18:02 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:18:02 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F063CB.8000701@riseup.net>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net> <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
 <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <56F063CB.8000701@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F0650A.70801@riseup.net>

On 03/21/2016 06:12 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> We suppose that adapt/accept _any_ application since it follows our
> Social Contract [0] through our first amendment where means that
> Parabola follows the GNU free system distribution guidelines [1] and
> doesn't include or recommend nonfree software or documentation and it
> does not provide any type of support for their installation or execution
> because we are fully free as in freedom distribution endorsed by FSF [2]

Another point is that we does not include or recommend nonfree art
either, since our distro advocates the free culture too. I suggest
update our Social Contract adding this amendment.

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Tue Mar 22 03:16:06 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 00:16:06 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F0650A.70801@riseup.net>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net> <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
 <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <56F063CB.8000701@riseup.net>
 <56F0650A.70801@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F0B8F6.7000107@riseup.net>

On 03/21/2016 06:18 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 03/21/2016 06:12 PM, Andr? Silva wrote:
>> We suppose that adapt/accept _any_ application since it follows our
>> Social Contract [0] through our first amendment where means that
>> Parabola follows the GNU free system distribution guidelines [1] and
>> doesn't include or recommend nonfree software or documentation and it
>> does not provide any type of support for their installation or execution
>> because we are fully free as in freedom distribution endorsed by FSF [2]
> 
> Another point is that we does not include or recommend nonfree art
> either, since our distro advocates the free culture too. I suggest
> update our Social Contract adding this amendment.

Note for Enrique: I let you know there are some applications can be
solved by us removing nonfree stuff, when possible. Also we have a
particular repository called Nonprism that aims to provide software
built and patched without services under global data surveillance
programs like PRISM, XKeyscore and Tempora.
See our article about Parabola's repositories for further details [0]

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Repositories

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From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Tue Mar 22 05:06:32 2016
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:06:32 +0000
Subject: [Dev] crosstool-ng-libre
Message-ID: <56F0D2D8.1080801@gmail.com>

Hello,

I have received a laptop, on which I intend to cross-compile the 
parabola base packages, using crosstool-ng-libre, on debian. The idea, 
is that it will be possible to create something like 'parabola from 
scratch', and could help with reproducible builds.

When I wrote the patch for crosstool-ng-libre, I only tested to see if 
it would download the linux-libre kernel instead of the vanilla kernel. 
Unfortunately, upon further, recent, testing, I found that the compiling 
process for the toolchain breaks when attempting to patch the kernel.

So here is the updated patch. Which has been successfully tested to see 
if it can build a complete toolchain.

BRgs.

Josh


--- crosstool-ng-1.20.0.old/scripts/build/kernel/linux.sh	2014-09-08 
22:58:37.000000000 +0100
+++ crosstool-ng-1.20.0/scripts/build/kernel/linux.sh	2016-03-22 
01:01:24.800141359 +0000
@@ -45,12 +45,8 @@
                  k_ver="${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}"
                  ;;
          esac
-        case "${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}" in
-            2.6.*)  rel_dir=v2.6;;
-            3.*)    rel_dir=v3.x;;
-        esac
-        korg_base="http://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/${rel_dir}"
-        CT_GetFile "linux-${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}"         \
+ 
korg_base="http://linux-libre.fsfla.org/pub/linux-libre/releases/${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}-gnu"
+        CT_GetFile "linux-libre-${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}-gnu"         \
                     "${korg_base}"                       \
                     "${korg_base}/longterm/v${k_ver}"    \
                     "${korg_base}/longterm"
@@ -66,13 +62,18 @@

      # If using a custom directory location, nothing to do
      if [ "${CT_KERNEL_LINUX_CUSTOM}" = "y"    \
-         -a -d "${CT_SRC_DIR}/linux-${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}" ]; then
+         -a -d "${CT_SRC_DIR}/linux-libre-${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}-gnu" ]; then
          return 0
      fi

      # Otherwise, we're using either a mainstream tarball, or a custom
      # tarball; in either case, we need to extract
-    CT_Extract "linux-${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}"
+    CT_Extract "linux-libre-${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}-gnu"
+
+    #The following IF statement is a hack, it renames the source 
directory so that CT_Patch will work on the libre kernel.
+    if [ -d "${CT_SRC_DIR}/linux-libre-${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}-gnu" ]; then
+        mv "${CT_SRC_DIR}/linux-libre-${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}-gnu" 
"${CT_SRC_DIR}/linux-${CT_KERNEL_VERSION}"
+    fi

      # If using a custom tarball, no need to patch
      if [ "${CT_KERNEL_LINUX_CUSTOM}" = "y" ]; then


From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Mar 22 10:25:59 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 10:25:59 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [icecat] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160322102559.620.58951@parabola.nu>

jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* icecat 38.6.0_gnu1-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat/
* icecat 38.6.0_gnu1-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat/
* icecat-debug 38.6.0_gnu1-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat-debug/
* icecat-debug 38.6.0_gnu1-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat-debug/


The user provided the following additional text:

Updated in trisquel jenkins http://jenkins.trisquel.info/icecat/



From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Mar 22 18:01:27 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:01:27 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [dianara] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160322180127.622.23797@parabola.nu>

vicente at solognu.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* dianara 1.3.2-1 [pcr] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/armv7h/dianara/
* dianara 1.3.2-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/dianara/
* dianara 1.3.2-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/dianara/


The user provided the following additional text:

https://jancoding.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/dianara-v1-3-3-released/



From nobody at parabola.nu  Thu Mar 24 14:40:39 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 14:40:39 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel-ublock-origin] marked
	out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160324144039.616.45181@parabola.nu>

jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* iceweasel-ublock-origin 1.4.0-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-ublock-origin/


The user provided the following additional text:

Upstream version 1.6.4



From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Mar 25 04:43:17 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 01:43:17 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <ac0b8c3958f5b8d6452858c53ff47374@communitycube.net>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net> <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
 <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <56F05EAD.9070307@riseup.net>
 <56F0608D.6050201@riseup.net>
 <ac0b8c3958f5b8d6452858c53ff47374@communitycube.net>
Message-ID: <56F4C1E5.7090007@riseup.net>

On 03/24/2016 03:22 PM, Enrique wrote:
> Hi Guys
> 
> We discarded Odroid

ok

> We are going to use a opensource gueranteed SOC with open boot and
> sources for ROM
> I will FWD all data about chipset very soon.
> We checked some others boards in the market as responsibilities but we
> are in the way to find all clarification required to check if it is 100%
> open or not.
> I will keep you posted/in the loop about this.

Currently, there aren't fully free ARM boards in the market yet, but we
deblobbed a lot of them through our deblobbed RCN patches for
Linux-libre kernel [0] with Uboot support, like:

* A10 OLinuXino Lime
* A10s OLinuXino Micro
* A13 OLinuXino
* A13 OLinuXino Micro
* A20 OLinuXino Lime
* A20 OLinuXino Lime2
* A20 OLinuXino Micro
* BeagleBone and BeagleBone Black (stable and tested from coadde's bbb)
* ChiliBoard
* Cubieboard
* Cubieboard 2
* Cubietruck
* CuBox (Dove)
* all CuBox-i variants
* Nitrogen6X/Sabre Lite
* BeagleBoard and BeagleBoard-xM
* PandaBoard and PandaBoard ES
* pcDuino
* pcDuino3
* pcDuino3 Nano
* TrimSlice
* UDOO Dual (stable and tested from Gaming4JC's udoo)
* UDOO Quad
* USB Armory
* Wandboard

Some of them weren't very tested yet, since we didn't receive donations
about those boards, however it should works since are based on ArchARM.

Otherwise, libreboot talks about ASUS Chromebook C201 that could works
well from libreboot through Parabola, however it wasn't very tested yet.[1]
Maybe we could give a chance for it and begin its support since it could
be a fully free ARM laptop :)

[0]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/rcn-libre/patches/
[1]:https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/c201.html

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Mar 25 05:38:28 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 02:38:28 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F4C1E5.7090007@riseup.net>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net> <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
 <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <56F05EAD.9070307@riseup.net>
 <56F0608D.6050201@riseup.net>
 <ac0b8c3958f5b8d6452858c53ff47374@communitycube.net>
 <56F4C1E5.7090007@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F4CED4.8090903@riseup.net>

On 03/25/2016 01:43 AM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> Otherwise, libreboot talks about ASUS Chromebook C201 that could works
> well from libreboot through Parabola, however it wasn't very tested yet.[1]
> Maybe we could give a chance for it and begin its support since it could
> be a fully free ARM laptop :)

Those laptops aren't fully free since includes video acceleration [0]
and wifi [1] that requires a non-free blob. ??

[0]:https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/c201.html#videoblobs
[1]:https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/c201.html#wifiblobs

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From GNUtoo at no-log.org  Tue Mar 22 07:45:15 2016
From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 08:45:15 +0100
Subject: [Dev] crosstool-ng-libre
In-Reply-To: <56F0D2D8.1080801@gmail.com>
References: <56F0D2D8.1080801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160322084515.555089ba@top-laptop>

On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:06:32 +0000
Josh Branning <lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
Hi,

> I have received a laptop, on which I intend to cross-compile the 
> parabola base packages, using crosstool-ng-libre, on debian. The
> idea, is that it will be possible to create something like 'parabola
> from scratch', and could help with reproducible builds.
Very nice.

> When I wrote the patch for crosstool-ng-libre, I only tested to see
> if it would download the linux-libre kernel instead of the vanilla
> kernel. Unfortunately, upon further, recent, testing, I found that
> the compiling process for the toolchain breaks when attempting to
> patch the kernel.
> 
> So here is the updated patch. Which has been successfully tested to
> see if it can build a complete toolchain.
Thanks a lot for working on that.

Could you also share the necessary information to reproduce what you
did, such as:
-> crosstool-ng .config
-> crosstool-ng version

Denis.
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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Mar 25 09:42:32 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 06:42:32 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <d3760023b4e72d3228bf10173ecc40c3@communitycube.net>
References: <56F04C78.8050608@riseup.net> <56F051E1.8000903@riseup.net>
 <1458592328.4370.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <56F05EAD.9070307@riseup.net>
 <56F0608D.6050201@riseup.net>
 <ac0b8c3958f5b8d6452858c53ff47374@communitycube.net>
 <56F4C1E5.7090007@riseup.net>
 <d3760023b4e72d3228bf10173ecc40c3@communitycube.net>
Message-ID: <56F50808.9060705@riseup.net>

On 03/25/2016 05:20 AM, Enrique wrote:
> I feel A20 OLinuXino Lime2 like a very good candidate

Yes, sounds a good board

> How much donation you think and how much time you think you need to
> fully integrate a board with parabola?

I suggest donate a specific board that you want (eg. Wandboard Quad) to
do a lot of tests to see its stability with Parabola installed, also it
will be needed for Extlinux and GRUB porting/testing.

The time needed to integrate a board with Parabola relates to each
board, sometimes, it's fast if some boards were integrated in ArchARM,
then we just adapt it to our kernel.

However if some board required to integrate Parabola isn't available in
ArchARM (eg. CHIP hardware), it needs more time (maybe some weeks)
because we need study the board to build an U-Boot with settings
customized by us.

> Which of the board below with more RAM would you be selecting for it?

Wandboard Quad contains 2Gb RAM [0] and there are another goods boards
for it as Nitrogen6X [1], Trimslice [2] and Udoo Quad [3].

> What is the average time and procedure for deblobabing?

i use FSFLA's deblob script to check freedom issues on the RCN
patches [4] (i use it to create grsecurity-libre [5] based on grsecurity
too [6]), however it generates a lot of random false positives, then, i
remove/edit the patches manually after the false positive checking every
new release.

Note: Currently, default RCN patches contains just a blob called
"am335x-pm-firmware.elf" that is for the Beaglebone Black [7], another
ARM blobs are being deblobbed by the Linux-libre kernel.

[0]:https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/freescale/wandboard
[1]:https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/freescale/nitrogen6x
[2]:https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/nvidia/trimslice
[3]:https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/freescale/udoo
[4]:http://rcn-ee.com/deb/sid-armhf/
[5]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/grsecurity-libre/test/
[6]:https://grsecurity.net/
[7]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-September/003230.html

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Sat Mar 26 01:55:51 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 22:55:51 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>

 On 03/20/2016 10:30 AM, Enrique wrote:
>   * We need support asap to create a woking group to make that possible,
>     budget in consideration process.

I've just been thinking a lot about it, and might be nice to you to give
us your budget proposal first, under European standards that is the
better way to be adapted for any place around the world though.

This procedure can be optimised for both sides, since we are hackers
that are living around the world and there are different costs of living.

Then after your budget proposal, we could open a consensus to take a
decision about it, also you can participate since the third amendment of
Parabola Social Contract says our distro is democratic in its
essence.[0] what do you think?

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre_Social_Contract

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Sat Mar 26 06:17:14 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 03:17:14 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [ARM] Parabola ARM Port progress
In-Reply-To: <55BC1AB3.4090501@riseup.net>
References: <548D8C65.9060906@cryptolab.net> <874msyqmkg.fsf@unicorn.home>
 <20141217210806.GA620@donderklumpen.de> <54947289.3010302@cryptolab.net>
 <20141219193247.GA560@donderklumpen.de>
 <20141219194044.GB560@donderklumpen.de> <549551CB.1090608@cryptolab.net>
 <20141220114358.GA1293@donderklumpen.de> <549561C9.4040302@cryptolab.net>
 <54A80F6A.2000808@cryptolab.net> <20150113212339.GA2095@donderklumpen.de>
 <54B6EA1C.6010003@cryptolab.net> <55BC1AB3.4090501@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F6296A.5090809@riseup.net>

Hi guys, i would let you know our current progress about tasks done and
needed to do:

Since only a small part of Arch ARM official packages are nonfree or
contain nonfree components, there's no need for us to repackage
everything and it's done. Those packages listed here below are our libre
replacements and customized ones.

== kernels ==

Kernels are being maintained by me and currently they are up-to-date and
100% done.

== bootloaders ==

U-Boot, U-Boot+GRUB and U-Boot+Extlinux are being maintained by me and
coadde and GRUB that is being maintained by coadde.

U-Boot -> 100% done (coadde's bbb and Gaming4JC's udoo are stable,
however we need another boards to check its stability)

U-Boot+Extlinux -> 30% done (tested and works stable in coadde's bbb) we
need boards for testing and porting.

U-Boot+GRUB -> 5% done (it needs more work since GRUB is under
development for ARM yet) [0]

== [libre] base packages ==

Those packages are being maintained by ovruni, isacdaavid and ebrasca.
It's 100% done, however if i'm wrong, please let me know.

== [libre] extra/community packages ==

Those packages are being maintained by ovruni, isacdaavid and ebrasca,
however there are packages as icecat [1], iceape and texlive [2] that
needs revision to port to ARMv7. How is it going its progress?

== [pcr] ==

It is under porting progress...

== [nonprism] ==

It isn't available for armv7h yet...

== blacklisting ==

blacklist all nonfree packages from ArchARM's AUR and ALARM
repositories. I think isacdaavid is doing it...

[0]:https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?46890
[1]:https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/896
[2]:https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/852

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Sat Mar 26 23:41:39 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 20:41:39 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
Message-ID: <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net>

On 03/26/2016 11:51 AM, Enrique wrote:
> 50k?
> 100k?

ok, I guess it is for all Parabola hackers team and it should be shared
between us, however i have some questions...

AFAIK, we should create a working group to offer a dedicated Parabola
ARMv7 support for Community Cube [0], then create a specific subproject
with you (if you want, we could create our subproject in the main page
of our labs that runs Redmine [1]), then my question is:

Is it an hiring for the Parabola hackers?

You mean that we need to be pushing hard. Is it a full-time support?
It's important to know if some of our hackers have free time to accept it.

Is that money (eg. ? 80k) per month? If our available hackers to create
the team are our current 13 hackers [2], we will receive around ? 6k per
month.

It is very important since we won't have to earn their wages by working
anywhere else and would have dedicated time to fix long standing bugs
and effort to Parabola ARMv7 for the community and Community Cube.

What do you think?

> Can anybody establish a primer index about the steps we need to
> integrate hard and apps with OS and hardening?

ok, coadde and me are doing it, i let you know when it's done

> We are in process to check if the APPs are using anything not open >
> https://213.129.164.215:4580/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=technical:software:matrix:featurescomparison

I suggest check our blacklist [3] and your-privacy's blacklist [4] (if
you want software built and patched to be secure from global data
surveillance programs like PRISM, XKeyscore and Tempora).
Btw, there's a package with free issues in that list called clamav that
contains nonfree unRAR support for RAR into libclamunrar [5]. We have a
free replacement of it removing those nonfree stuff inside clamav.


[0]:https://communitycube.net/
[1]:https://labs.parabola.nu/
[2]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/
[3]:https://projects.parabola.nu/blacklist.git/tree/blacklist.txt
[4]:https://projects.parabola.nu/blacklist.git/tree/your-privacy-blacklist.txt
[5]:https://projects.parabola.nu/blacklist.git/tree/blacklist.txt#n80


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From coadde at riseup.net  Sun Mar 27 04:53:52 2016
From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 01:53:52 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F76760.1090708@riseup.net>

>> Can anybody establish a primer index about the steps we need to
>> integrate hard and apps with OS and hardening?
> 
> ok, coadde and me are doing it, i let you know when it's done

Do you mean about ARM Install Guide? we have an article about it from
our wiki [0], or Migration Guide from ArchARM [1]

However, if you mean about create a similar article than you [2], we are
in process doing it too.[3]

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/ARM_Installation_Guide
[1]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Migration_from_Arch_ARM
[2]:https://213.129.164.215:4580/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=technical:software:matrix:featurescomparison
[3]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Features_Comparison

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Sun Mar 27 05:33:10 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:33:10 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F76760.1090708@riseup.net>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net> <56F76760.1090708@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F77096.60004@riseup.net>

On 03/27/2016 01:53 AM, coadde wrote:
> Do you mean about ARM Install Guide? we have an article about it from
> our wiki [0], or Migration Guide from ArchARM [1]

s|we have an article about it from our wiki|we have an article about it
in our wiki|

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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Sun Mar 27 05:43:59 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:43:59 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F76760.1090708@riseup.net>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net> <56F76760.1090708@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F7731F.40107@riseup.net>

On 03/27/2016 01:53 AM, coadde wrote:
> However, if you mean about create a similar article than you [2], we are
> in process doing it too.

Currently, i'm checking if there are missing apps in our distro in
comparison to Enrique's list [0]

[0]:https://213.129.164.215:4580/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=technical:software:matrix:featurescomparison



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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Sun Mar 27 09:35:13 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 06:35:13 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F77096.60004@riseup.net>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net> <56F76760.1090708@riseup.net>
 <56F77096.60004@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56F7A951.1000407@riseup.net>

On 03/27/2016 02:33 AM, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 03/27/2016 01:53 AM, coadde wrote:
>> Do you mean about ARM Install Guide? we have an article about it from
>> our wiki [0], or Migration Guide from ArchARM [1]
> 
> s|we have an article about it from our wiki|we have an article about it
> in our wiki|

Sorry to review your sentence since i haven't noticed that it wasn't mine :P

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Sun Mar 27 14:10:17 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 11:10:17 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: [arch-dev-public] ANNOUNCEMENT: pacman hooks
Message-ID: <87vb48nh9y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>


fyi

-- 
http://partidopirata.com.ar/

-------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
From: Allan McRae <allan at archlinux.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 13:30:45 +1000
Subject: [arch-dev-public] ANNOUNCEMENT: pacman hooks

Hi all,

We need an announcement that we expected to have everyone updated to
pacman-5.0 soon so that we can switch many things to using hooks.

There are at minimum three things I want to see using hooks in the near
future:

1) info install
2) desktop cache updates
3) font cache updates
...

Each of these will require a rebuild to remove the install script
handling this.

If users are not updated to pacman-5.0 before this rebuild, there will
be no install script run and no hooks run.  Thus I want to make the
following announcement:

--DRAFT--
Required update to pacman-5.0.1 before 2016-04-17

The release of pacman-5.0 bought support for transactional hooks.  These
will allow us to (e.g.) run font cache updates a single time during an
update rather than after each font package.  This will both speed up the
update process, but also reduce packaging burden for the Developers and
Trusted Users.

In order for the use of hooks to be started, we require all users to
have updated to at least pacman-5.0.1 before 2016-04-23. Pacman-5.0.1
was released on 2016-02-23, so this will have given everyone two months
to update their system.
--END DRAFT--

Comments?

Allan
-------------------- End of forwarded message --------------------
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Sun Mar 27 21:34:58 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 18:34:58 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <87poufob99.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> writes:

> On 03/26/2016 11:51 AM, Enrique wrote:
>> 50k?
>> 100k?
>
> ok, I guess it is for all Parabola hackers team and it should be shared
> between us, however i have some questions...
>
> AFAIK, we should create a working group to offer a dedicated Parabola
> ARMv7 support for Community Cube [0], then create a specific subproject
> with you (if you want, we could create our subproject in the main page
> of our labs that runs Redmine [1]), then my question is:
>
> Is it an hiring for the Parabola hackers?
>
> You mean that we need to be pushing hard. Is it a full-time support?
> It's important to know if some of our hackers have free time to accept it.
>
> Is that money (eg. ? 80k) per month? If our available hackers to create
> the team are our current 13 hackers [2], we will receive around ? 6k per
> month.

hey, i did a quick search on community cube and the first thing i found
is a kickstarter campaign where people is complaining about CC not
fulfilling delivery dates and wondering if it was a scam after all.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/communitycubes/communitycube-lets-build-a-fair-internet/comments
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/communitycube-the-nsa-hates-us#/comments
https://www.linkedin.com/company/community-cube

From what i gather over these emails is that enrique is willing to pay
parabola hackers to develop a 100% libre distro for the community cube
hardware?  what would be our role in these accusations?

it would be good if enrique would clarify emulatorman's questions and
also mine :)

-- 
 D
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From alt.e2-cje82t at yopmail.com  Mon Mar 28 18:36:09 2016
From: alt.e2-cje82t at yopmail.com (Y guy)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:36:09 +0000
Subject: [Dev] IRC "policy" ;-)
In-Reply-To: <7a124896ea4cb5c84abe6968032912f5@riseup.net>
References: <7a124896ea4cb5c84abe6968032912f5@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <ndbtip$s0u$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 12/15/15 19:09, quiliro at riseup.net wrote:
> On https://wiki.parabola.nu/IRC_Policy it states that certain things
> will not be tolerated and that people will be moderated and banned.



> I think this is not the way to make a good community. Preventing some
> people to impose the power to enslave (sometimes confused with freedom)
> does not involve censorship but self control.


> I suggest using peer
> presure and conviction instead of facism in IRC to protect users from
> enslavement propaganda and trolling.


This is quite right. We have too much censorship.



From qqppyymm-scrawny at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 28 18:58:47 2016
From: qqppyymm-scrawny at yahoo.com (Y guy)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 18:58:47 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Beginners' guide in ParabolaWiki
In-Reply-To: <20141208120100.06048d573dce798c376ba0ea@mailoo.org>
References: <CAHWa5ufKL1Pt3DX4TNOXPJM4EOfQQhz9x3p+HNYj2XPTtwPq3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20141208120100.06048d573dce798c376ba0ea@mailoo.org>
Message-ID: <ndbut8$i5u$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 12/08/14 15:01, Esteban Carnevale wrote:
> As many ArchWiki pages it contains information which assists in using
> nonfree software.


But some info there is outdated, e.g. it refers to packages e.g. ~ 
"kde-workspace" which were removed from the repo. And you cannot correct 
it yourself, because a broken captcha (13Linux | sha256) keeps you from 
registering on the wiki   :-(




From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 28 19:16:42 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hotrod)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:16:42 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Parabola infrastructure server and its hosting.
In-Reply-To: <20160319120458.1859a4bc@top-laptop>
References: <20160319120458.1859a4bc@top-laptop>
Message-ID: <ndbvur$32l$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 03/19/16 11:04, Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli wrote:

> Since the FSF is located in the US:
> -> We can trust the FSF



Why is that so?




From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Tue Mar 29 05:03:13 2016
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 23:03:13 -0600
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <87poufob99.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net> <87poufob99.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <1459227793.2055.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>

Le dim. 27 mars 2016 ? 15:34, fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org> a 
?crit :
> hey, i did a quick search on community cube and the first thing i 
> found
> is a kickstarter campaign where people is complaining about CC not
> fulfilling delivery dates and wondering if it was a scam after all.
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/communitycubes/communitycube-lets-build-a-fair-internet/comments
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/communitycube-the-nsa-hates-us#/comments
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/community-cube
> From what i gather over these emails is that enrique is willing to pay
> parabola hackers to develop a 100% libre distro for the community cube
> hardware?  what would be our role in these accusations?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Nice catch, that explains a couple things.

A hypothetical deal between Parabola and Community Cube could (and
should!) specify that sort of separation of responsibilities and
liabilities. Needless to say Parabola isn't responsible for the 
Community
Cube project as a whole, regardless of whether they decide to make a 
deal
with Parabola or hire some of its hackers offlist or simply make an OS
image on their own. In any case they shouldn't be impeded to tell the
world what distro they are using, and there's a chance this could result
in a reputation boost for Parabola if things unfold optimally.

I want to approach this in good faith. I think their project largely got
it right, despite some gotchas. The Internet desperately needs that sort
of radical yet simple fixes that always start with average users using
the correct technologies and rejecting the bad ones. But the complexity
shouldn't be underestimated: I'm trying to envision a ready-made home
server operating system and I'm curious as to how they expect to 
approach
updates, specially security updates, since we can't normally push them 
to
users and typical Parabola usage involves manual interaction. Also,
configuring all those services properly and will be a lot of work.

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Tue Mar 29 14:00:58 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:00:58 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <1459227793.2055.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net> <87poufob99.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1459227793.2055.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <87d1qd4c4l.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Isaac David <isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info> writes:
> A hypothetical deal between Parabola and Community Cube could (and
> should!) specify that sort of separation of responsibilities and
> liabilities. Needless to say Parabola isn't responsible for the
> Community Cube project as a whole, regardless of whether they decide
> to make a deal with Parabola or hire some of its hackers offlist or
> simply make an OS image on their own. In any case they shouldn't be
> impeded to tell the world what distro they are using, and there's a
> chance this could result in a reputation boost for Parabola if things
> unfold optimally.

parabola can't take responsibilities by itself, since it doesn't exist
as a legal entity (we may be scamming CC too :P)

i think any deal with CC would have to be between CC and individual
parabola hackers, but any possible liability would have to be discussed
collectively beforehand :)

IMO it should be clear that:

* parabola hackers only develop a certain set of features needed by the
  CC project. afaict it's just about the bootloader for some arm boards,
  whose resulting patches may be applicable to the bootloaders for other
  distros?

* parabola as a project can't be responsible for anything nor receives
  any payment.

* parabola hackers hired for this job can't be responsible for anything
  else than develop the certain set of features (i don't know how to
  phrase it, i guess it's the standard limitation of liability /
  warranty from licenses.)

* any patch or software developed must be released under a free software
  license.  if it's a patch, under the same license of the upstream
  project, if it's software, under a copyleft license.

do you think this is correct or missing anything?

-- 
http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/
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From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 29 16:25:02 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hotrod)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:25:02 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <87d1qd4c4l.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net> <87poufob99.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1459227793.2055.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <87d1qd4c4l.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <ndea8u$5fj$1@ger.gmane.org>

their punch lines sure make a splash!



From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 29 16:25:56 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hotrod)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:25:56 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Beginners' guide in ParabolaWiki
In-Reply-To: <ndbut8$i5u$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CAHWa5ufKL1Pt3DX4TNOXPJM4EOfQQhz9x3p+HNYj2XPTtwPq3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20141208120100.06048d573dce798c376ba0ea@mailoo.org>
 <ndbut8$i5u$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ndeaak$5fj$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 28.03.2016 18:58, Y guy wrote:

everything is fixed now  :-)

> But some info there is outdated, e.g. it refers to packages e.g. ~
> "kde-workspace" which were removed from the repo. And you cannot correct
> it yourself, because a broken captcha (13Linux | sha256) keeps you from
> registering on the wiki   :-(




From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info  Tue Mar 29 18:23:55 2016
From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 12:23:55 -0600
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
Message-ID: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>

For your information, the recent MAME situation has spawned a
discussion regarding free emulators for nonfree ROMS and the
role of free distros with respect to those packages. I think
this currently is an ethically gray area that concerns Parabola
too. Jump in if you want to voice your opinions:

https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnu-linux-libre/2016-03/msg00008.html


---------- Message transf?r? ----------

De : Jean Louis <guix at rcdrun.com>
Objet : Re: [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
Date : Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:12:34 +0200
? : Workgroup for fully free GNU/Linux distributions 
<gnu-linux-libre at nongnu.org>

Hello,

It would be good to nicely understand the issues I have pointed to in
this discussion:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2016-03/msg01213.html

and to seek legal advice by an attorney of FSF in regards to trademark
usage.

In regards to free software distribution guidelines, as written here:
http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html

I don't agree that MAME should be included, including many of other
emulators, in the free software distributions, for reasons above
explained in the discussion I have started.

Jean Louis

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 11:08:56AM -0300, Felipe Sanches wrote:
>  I can see good usages of the MAME codebase for documentation of the
>  history of computer hardware. (I do it VERY often).
> 
>  Or for running homebrew free implementations of games on the emulator
>  (I already did that myself a couple times).
> 
>  It seems like the source package is undisputably free, while the
>  binary package is also free, but inducing users to download and run
>  non-free ROMs.
> 
>  That's also the case for any other free-software emulator, though. 
> Any
>  idea how we've dealt with this in cases such as dosbox, and other 
> free
>  software emulators?
> 
>  On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Felipe Sanches 
> <juca at members.fsf.org> wrote:
>  > The codebase is now fully free. But the vast majority of games
>  > (perhaps all of them) require non-free ROMs. So this is a special 
> case
>  > that requires some thought.
>  >
>  > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 8:57 PM,  <rain1 at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>  >> Hello
>  >>
>  >> The MAME project has recently re-licensed the project to GPL2 
> (with GPL3
>  >> parts). It is now free software. http://mamedev.org/?p=422
>  >>
>  >> Please consider updating the entry here to reflect this, since it 
> is now out
>  >> of date:
>  >> 
> https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines#MAME
>  >>
>  >> Thank you!
>  >>
> 





From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 29 17:59:02 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hyperbola)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:59:02 +0000
Subject: [Dev] New ISO release available?
In-Reply-To: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
References: <2c7bf21bfef5ee45611f646bf74a8ad8@mailoo.org>
Message-ID: <ndefp7$5ht$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 13.03.2016 20:57, Esteban Carnevale wrote:

> A new release has been uploaded
> <https://repo.parabola.nu/iso/latest/> but
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola is not updated. Should it be done?


https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_MATE_desktop_ISO

people should be able to find it.



From emulatorman at riseup.net  Tue Mar 29 20:44:19 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:44:19 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net>

On 03/29/2016 03:23 PM, Isaac David wrote:
> For your information, the recent MAME situation has spawned a
> discussion regarding free emulators for nonfree ROMS and the
> role of free distros with respect to those packages. I think
> this currently is an ethically gray area that concerns Parabola
> too. Jump in if you want to voice your opinions:
> 
> https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnu-linux-libre/2016-03/msg00008.html


We could send our article about emulators could help them though [0]

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Emulator_licensing_issues

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From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 29 20:49:06 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hyperbola)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 20:49:06 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Multi kernel live CDROM ? Incl. hardenend grSec-knock?
Message-ID: <56FAEA42.9000206@yahoo.com>

Would a parabola live ISO image including the (optiona) hardened 
knock-kernel not be a great leap forward?



From emulatorman at riseup.net  Tue Mar 29 21:00:25 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:00:25 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Multi kernel live CDROM ? Incl. hardenend grSec-knock?
In-Reply-To: <56FAEA42.9000206@yahoo.com>
References: <56FAEA42.9000206@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56FAECE9.50701@riseup.net>

On 03/29/2016 05:49 PM, hyperbola wrote:
> Would a parabola live ISO image including the (optiona) hardened
> knock-kernel not be a great leap forward?

We could open a consensus about it if you want :)

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From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 29 21:04:13 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hyperbola)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 21:04:13 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Multi kernel live CDROM ? Incl. hardenend grSec-knock?
In-Reply-To: <56FAECE9.50701@riseup.net>
References: <56FAEA42.9000206@yahoo.com> <56FAECE9.50701@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <ndeqkd$lcg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 29.03.2016 21:00, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 03/29/2016 05:49 PM, hyperbola wrote:
>> Would a parabola live ISO image including the (optional) hardened
>> knock-kernel not be a great leap forward?
>
> We could open a consensus about it if you want :)

Absolutely. Some may consider it a foregone conclusion though.  ;-)




From ingegnue at riseup.net  Tue Mar 29 23:44:42 2016
From: ingegnue at riseup.net (IngeGNUe)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 19:44:42 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <1459227793.2055.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net> <87poufob99.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <1459227793.2055.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
Message-ID: <56FB136A.80402@riseup.net>

On 03/29/16 01:03, Isaac David wrote:
> Le dim. 27 mars 2016 ? 15:34, fauno <fauno at endefensadelsl.org> a ?crit :
>> hey, i did a quick search on community cube and the first thing i found
>> is a kickstarter campaign where people is complaining about CC not
>> fulfilling delivery dates and wondering if it was a scam after all.
>>
>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/communitycubes/communitycube-lets-build-a-fair-internet/comments
>>
>> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/communitycube-the-nsa-hates-us#/comments
>>
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/community-cube
>> From what i gather over these emails is that enrique is willing to pay
>> parabola hackers to develop a 100% libre distro for the community cube
>> hardware?  what would be our role in these accusations?
> 
> Nice catch, that explains a couple things.
> 
> A hypothetical deal between Parabola and Community Cube could (and
> should!) specify that sort of separation of responsibilities and
> liabilities. Needless to say Parabola isn't responsible for the Community
> Cube project as a whole, regardless of whether they decide to make a deal
> with Parabola or hire some of its hackers offlist or simply make an OS
> image on their own. In any case they shouldn't be impeded to tell the
> world what distro they are using, and there's a chance this could result
> in a reputation boost for Parabola if things unfold optimally.
> 
> I want to approach this in good faith. I think their project largely got
> it right, despite some gotchas. The Internet desperately needs that sort
> of radical yet simple fixes that always start with average users using
> the correct technologies and rejecting the bad ones. But the complexity
> shouldn't be underestimated: I'm trying to envision a ready-made home
> server operating system and I'm curious as to how they expect to approach
> updates, specially security updates, since we can't normally push them to
> users and typical Parabola usage involves manual interaction. Also,
> configuring all those services properly and will be a lot of work.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev

How is Community Cube any different from FreedomBox? They don't address
this.

Right now they have chosen CageOS, a Debian-based distro:
https://cageos.org/
And CageOS is running very similar apps to what you see with FreedomBox:
https://cageos.org/index.php?page=apps

I guess they'd fill a niche Freedombox doesn't have if they ran a
preconfigured Parabola since Parabola is fully free as in freedom. But
wait, running Arch or any of its derivatives as a server on a wide scale
seems quite weird to me. I know I know, "some people run Arch on their
server"... Dude, are you crazy?! I'd feel the same way if someone told
me they were running Debian Sid. Sure, it's less downtime than Windows
Server (lol!) but... Oh, and not to mention the fact that Parabola, like
Arch, is largely geared towards people who know what they are doing and
how to fix it. I haven't had to ask people for help too much because I
know what I'm doing.

So...on that note... Who is this product geared towards? A product
geared towards me wouldn't present itself in such a watered-down,
abstract way. It LOOKS as though it's marketed to people who aren't too
experienced and need that out-of-box experience.

I have to wonder if they aren't simply hangers-on of the success the
FreedomBox project had. I'm an IT person, and while it's nice to have a
page explaining to the average user how their stuff works, I want to see
something more...technical. (I also don't want to watch videos.) I could
turn ANYTHING with an ethernet port into a server (Sidenote: sorry
Parabola, I'd do more for you but I work full time & all I have is
cellular). Why buy from them? The fact that they haven't decided on a
distro, and aren't presenting hardware specs tells me they could be
selling me...air.

Maybe what they'll ask of you is to mold/mangle Parabola into the key
that fits their cube-shaped hole...would this be a difficult task?

I'd ask them some tough questions before jumping in. Why Parabola? Why
Community Cube? What have they accomplished so far? And ask them to show
you. And other details. People are getting burned left and right in
crowdsourcing -- perhaps collectively learning to be critical
investors... Don't accept unpaid work!

Definitely would try to keep it so that Parabola remains independent but
gets a mention. All of the good credit, none of the bad, that's what
Parabola's hard-working hackers deserve! :)


From ingegnue at riseup.net  Wed Mar 30 03:57:11 2016
From: ingegnue at riseup.net (IngeGNUe)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 23:57:11 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net>
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>

On 03/29/16 16:44, Andr? Silva wrote:
> On 03/29/2016 03:23 PM, Isaac David wrote:
>> For your information, the recent MAME situation has spawned a
>> discussion regarding free emulators for nonfree ROMS and the
>> role of free distros with respect to those packages. I think
>> this currently is an ethically gray area that concerns Parabola
>> too. Jump in if you want to voice your opinions:
>>
>> https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnu-linux-libre/2016-03/msg00008.html
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
> 

I think this reveals some weaknesses of the FSDG, which admits to being
"incomplete".

See my blog post if you feel like it:
https://ingegnue.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/freedom-zero-or-zero-freedom/


From nobody at parabola.nu  Wed Mar 30 08:43:11 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:43:11 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [terasology] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160330084311.622.90988@parabola.nu>

e_y_e at tuta.io wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* terasology 60-1 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/terasology/


The user provided the following additional text:

https://github.com/MovingBlocks/Terasology/releases/tag/v1.0.0



From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Wed Mar 30 13:09:08 2016
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 09:09:08 -0400
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net> <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org>

I'd like to weigh in by mentioning there are still many uses for
emulators which people think should be removed.

For example, there are still GPL Windows programs that ONLY work on
Windows. There is no reason WINE would need to be removed if the purpose
is to learn how to make fully free Windows programs. These programs can
one day run on a free OS, such as ReactOS.
http://osswin.sourceforge.net/

The same goes for DosBox and FreeDOS where there is still a small
community learning and improving DOS using fully free software.

When it comes to console emulators, there is 95% of the time a homebrew
scene with GPL source code where users can learn to code and play fully
free games. ** There is no reason to remove these if the user is
learning and using free software. **

In the case of MAME, I agree that these do not exist YET. However, if
someone were to make a PoC it too should be included. There is no reason
someone could not develop fully free software for an arcade machine. In
addition to this, if users begin developing free software that runs on
MAME, it may be possible to one day flash a real Arcade Machine with
fully free software. Such unforeseen creative possibilities exist due to
the nature of free software.

I also personally feel that archival backup of games should be allowed,
especially if the user owns the game on a console. It is actually more
ethical and generally more quality to play older games you own on a
fully free emulator than it is your own console which does not contain a
fully free distro. In the case of PSP and PSX, it is now possible to
play the games fully free without a non-free bios.

Regarding Gnash, yes, there are fully free Flash authoring tools and
projects too:
http://www.flashmagazine.com/news/detail/open_source_and_free_development_tools_for_flash/

Before we start removing access to free software, we should consider the
unintended consequences.

Sad scenarios that come to mind for users running fully free distros
with these new guidelines being suggested:

- The free software developer who was in the process of freeing an
arcade machine was unable to do so because he was unaware of MAME.

- The GNU/Linux kernel hacker never tried to running GNU/Linux on the
PS2, because he didn't have access to a fully free emulator to do his work.

- Creativity and the free culture does not thrive because users did not
have access to the tools needed to do the job.

In each scenario, it is the user that uses a tool for good or evil. We
should not be thought police on how they intend or do not intend to use
their software by removing access to the tools. I do agree that there
should be a warning that these programs may offer access to non-free
software, but it is up to the user on how they intend to act on that
statement.



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From aurelien at hackers.camp  Wed Mar 30 13:16:37 2016
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 15:16:37 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org> (Luke's message of "Wed, 30
 Mar 2016 09:09:08 -0400")
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net> <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>
 <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <87lh50ayx6.fsf@hackers.camp>

Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> writes:

> I'd like to weigh in by mentioning there are still many uses for
> emulators which people think should be removed.
>
> For example, there are still GPL Windows programs that ONLY work on
> Windows. There is no reason WINE would need to be removed if the purpose
> is to learn how to make fully free Windows programs. These programs can
> one day run on a free OS, such as ReactOS.
> http://osswin.sourceforge.net/
>
> The same goes for DosBox and FreeDOS where there is still a small
> community learning and improving DOS using fully free software.

And in the other sens bring that effort to packages things that need to
be. (Free things made for free universes)

Writing MAS - Adaptive toolkit for heterogeneous LAN and Networks that
works on all your different type of OS remotely at the same time without installation.
https://github.com/aurelien-git/MAS

Demonstrate to me one thing, some nice free software are not packages!

Mussh is a really nice tool and GPLv2 but no one build it.

This example should certainly not be alone.

I know that behind every effort there is someone that do the work, but,
keeping our force for free software that are written gpl for free OS
sounds a good thing.

Kind regards

-- 
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
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From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 15:20:56 2016
From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:20:56 +0100
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <87lh50ayx6.fsf@hackers.camp>
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net> <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>
 <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org> <87lh50ayx6.fsf@hackers.camp>
Message-ID: <56FBEED8.8060502@gmail.com>

Upsides:
* Emulators allow otherwise partially-free programs to run freely on a 
machine.
* Where all the programs for the platform are non-free, emulators can be 
viewed as a kind of development kit for the platform architecture, 
allowing new free software to be created for that machine.
* Where all the programs for the platform are non-free, emulators still 
allow for reverse engineering of non-free programs.
* Where all the programs are non-free, people may be able to run the 
proprietary program in a freer manner than they could do otherwise, 
which still may be a small step to complete freedom.

Downside:
* People may use the emulator to run non-free programs.


The downside is slightly questionable, as the whole of the internet/web 
may allow people to download and run non-free programs. As with the www, 
I can have full confidence that the parabola team are wise enough to 
figure out whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in these 
instances.


From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Wed Mar 30 17:23:37 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:23:37 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <56FBEED8.8060502@gmail.com>
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net> <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>
 <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org> <87lh50ayx6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <56FBEED8.8060502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87r3er3mna.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Josh Branning <lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com> writes:

> Upsides:
> * Emulators allow otherwise partially-free programs to run freely on a 
> machine.
> * Where all the programs for the platform are non-free, emulators can be 
> viewed as a kind of development kit for the platform architecture, 
> allowing new free software to be created for that machine.
> * Where all the programs for the platform are non-free, emulators still 
> allow for reverse engineering of non-free programs.
> * Where all the programs are non-free, people may be able to run the 
> proprietary program in a freer manner than they could do otherwise, 
> which still may be a small step to complete freedom.
>
> Downside:
> * People may use the emulator to run non-free programs.

i don't see it as a downside, but rather an overstepping of freedom #0.
we shouldn't be arguing about possible uses of free software, even if it
includes running or interfacing with unfree software (they wouldn't be
prioritary on my long todo list though.)


-- 
http://endefensadelsl.org/
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From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 30 20:57:29 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hyperbola)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:57:29 +0000
Subject: [Dev] wiki categories improved
Message-ID: <ndhejp$66g$1@ger.gmane.org>

https://wiki.parabola.nu/Category:Wiki


Now it is quite fast to browse all pages via categories.

Most stuff is categorized now.



From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Wed Mar 30 23:06:48 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:06:48 -0300
Subject: [Dev] wiki categories improved
In-Reply-To: <ndhejp$66g$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndhejp$66g$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <878u0z36rb.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

hyperbola <sokkomb at yahoo.com> writes:

> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Category:Wiki
>
>
> Now it is quite fast to browse all pages via categories.
>
> Most stuff is categorized now.

\o/ thanks!

-- 
.o?)
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From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Mar 31 01:35:25 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:35:25 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Softwares and Libraries List ARM router
In-Reply-To: <9f099bdb1422234bb27ddb6ceb282253@communitycube.net>
References: <0cb7626272e44e2951a5ae204431b947@communitycube.net>
 <56EF6DAD.80906@riseup.net> <56F5EC27.8040500@riseup.net>
 <e0115d95e653822d08b798cd4bf8d21f@communitycube.net>
 <56F71E33.6050105@riseup.net> <56F76760.1090708@riseup.net>
 <56F7731F.40107@riseup.net>
 <9f099bdb1422234bb27ddb6ceb282253@communitycube.net>
Message-ID: <56FC7EDD.4020003@riseup.net>

On 03/30/2016 07:53 PM, Enrique wrote:
> Let me know if we can facilitate this colaboration in any technical,
> financial or infrastructure way
> Also I think we need a tox or xmppotrs or phone session

tox should be a cool way, currently i use qtox.

> I purchased all mentioned boards.
> I want to send you an oluxino
> And better understand how we can make a roadmap.

i'm sending you my mother's address in Miami (in private from another
email) since we use that address to receive donations for coadde and me.

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From nicolasmaia at tutanota.com  Thu Mar 31 16:22:52 2016
From: nicolasmaia at tutanota.com (nicolasmaia at tutanota.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:22:52 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Dev] Parabola will be officially represented at FISL17!
Message-ID: <KECU-Py--3-0@tutanota.com>

At this years' FISL conference, Emulatorman (Andr?) will be giving a talk 
about Parabola: http://softwarelivre.org/fisl17/programacao/destaques

The link is in Portuguese, but you get the idea :P

Nicolas Maia
--
Enviado seguramente pelo Tutanota. Torne sua caixa de correio criptografada 
hoje mesmo!https://tutanota.com
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From quiliro at riseup.net  Thu Mar 31 17:58:16 2016
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quilro Ordonez)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:58:16 -0500
Subject: [Dev] servidores nuevos
Message-ID: <e1d932b087f47f1b7f02877362aa89d8@riseup.net>

Se me ocurre pedir prestado un blade (o varios) a cambio de soporte en 
libreoffice. Hay varias instituciones del gobierno de Ecuador que tienen 
infraestructura pero ya no tienen dinero. Les puedo proponer que les 
ayudemos con la migracion a software libre (entre otras cosas a 
LibreOffice) y que el soporte les demos en linea. A cambio de este 
servcio nos ofrescan unos blades conectados a Internet. Que opinan?


From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 31 20:44:10 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hyperbola)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:44:10 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Parabola will be officially represented at FISL17!
In-Reply-To: <KECU-Py--3-0@tutanota.com>
References: <KECU-Py--3-0@tutanota.com>
Message-ID: <ndk26q$vs5$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 31.03.2016 16:22, nicolasmaia at tutanota.com 
wrote:
> At this years' FISL conference, Emulatorman (Andr?) will be giving a
> talk about Parabola: http://softwarelivre.org/fisl17/programacao/destaques
>
> The link is in Portuguese, but you get the idea :P


by all means, we do  ;-)




From coadde at riseup.net  Thu Mar 31 20:52:53 2016
From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 17:52:53 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Thanks Luke R. (Gaming4JC) for the Dell Latitude 2110,
 Netgear WNA1100 and C.H.I.P donations!
Message-ID: <56FD8E25.7030405@riseup.net>

Hi guys, i would let you know that received the Dell Latitude 2110,
Netgear WNA1100 and C.H.I.P in perfect conditions (i uploaded some
pictures about it to the wiki ;))[0].

I want to thank you Luke R. (Gaming4JC) for all support and donations!!!

[0]:https://repo.parabola.nu/sources/others/coadde_netbook+wifi-usb+chip/

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From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 31 21:01:34 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hyperbola)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:01:34 +0000
Subject: [Dev] Thanks Luke R. (Gaming4JC) for the Dell Latitude 2110,
 Netgear WNA1100 and C.H.I.P donations!
In-Reply-To: <56FD8E25.7030405@riseup.net>
References: <56FD8E25.7030405@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <ndk37e$fpg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 31.03.2016 20:52, coadde wrote:
> Hi guys, i would let you know that received the Dell Latitude 2110,
> Netgear WNA1100 and C.H.I.P in perfect conditions (i uploaded some
> pictures about it to the wiki ;))[0].
>
> I want to thank you Luke R. (Gaming4JC) for all support and donations!!!
>
> [0]:https://repo.parabola.nu/sources/others/coadde_netbook+wifi-usb+chip


can one run Parabola on that Netgear machine?




From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Mar 31 22:25:16 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:25:16 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Thanks Luke R. (Gaming4JC) for the Dell Latitude 2110,
 Netgear WNA1100 and C.H.I.P donations!
In-Reply-To: <ndk37e$fpg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <56FD8E25.7030405@riseup.net> <ndk37e$fpg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <56FDA3CC.8080604@riseup.net>

On 03/31/2016 06:01 PM, hyperbola wrote:
> On 31.03.2016 20:52, coadde wrote:
>> Hi guys, i would let you know that received the Dell Latitude 2110,
>> Netgear WNA1100 and C.H.I.P in perfect conditions (i uploaded some
>> pictures about it to the wiki ;))[0].
>>
>> I want to thank you Luke R. (Gaming4JC) for all support and donations!!!
>>
>> [0]:https://repo.parabola.nu/sources/others/coadde_netbook+wifi-usb+chip
> 
> 
> can one run Parabola on that Netgear machine?

Netgear WNA1100 is an USB wifi adapter


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