From nobody at parabola.nu Wed Jun 1 15:11:55 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:11:55 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [firejail] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160601151155.27250.36416@parabola.nu> gnu at gnu.gnu wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * firejail 0.9.38-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/firejail/ * firejail 0.9.38-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/firejail/ The user provided the following additional text: https://l3net.wordpress.com/2016/04/03/firejail-0-9-40-rc1-release-announcement/ From g4jc at openmailbox.org Wed Jun 1 19:21:28 2016 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 15:21:28 -0400 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [firejail] marked out-of-date In-Reply-To: <20160601151155.27250.36416@parabola.nu> References: <20160601151155.27250.36416@parabola.nu> Message-ID: <15d739a6-3804-8677-62f9-ac412bc9f3dd@openmailbox.org> RC1 is a pre-release (which usually means buggy), as soon as the final 9.40 comes out I plan to update it. Based on the git there are a ton of changes coming. On 06/01/2016 11:11 AM, Parabola Website Notification wrote: > gnu at gnu.gnu wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: > > > * firejail 0.9.38-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/firejail/ > * firejail 0.9.38-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/firejail/ > > > The user provided the following additional text: > > https://l3net.wordpress.com/2016/04/03/firejail-0-9-40-rc1-release-announcement/ > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From hahj87 at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 15:51:20 2016 From: hahj87 at gmail.com (Joshua Haase) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 10:51:20 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Proposal: [bio] repo for Parabola/GNU Linux libre In-Reply-To: <87zirxyecf.fsf@riseup.net> References: <87y47i27kb.fsf@riseup.net> <57311B00.9080606@openmailbox.org> <87zirxyecf.fsf@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87inxrwpvr.fsf@riseup.net> Joshua Haase writes: > Luke writes: > >> Would it be possible to use PCR repo? You could upload your work to the >> AUR as well since upstream may like to have access to any new free >> software not already there. Could someone give me access to the PCR repo? From g4jc at openmailbox.org Thu Jun 2 19:04:48 2016 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 15:04:48 -0400 Subject: [Dev] Proposal: [bio] repo for Parabola/GNU Linux libre In-Reply-To: <87inxrwpvr.fsf@riseup.net> References: <87y47i27kb.fsf@riseup.net> <57311B00.9080606@openmailbox.org> <87zirxyecf.fsf@riseup.net> <87inxrwpvr.fsf@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 06/02/2016 11:51 AM, Joshua Haase wrote: > Joshua Haase writes: > >> Luke writes: >> >>> Would it be possible to use PCR repo? You could upload your work to the >>> AUR as well since upstream may like to have access to any new free >>> software not already there. > Could someone give me access to the PCR repo? > You can get access if you apply for a developer position. https://wiki.parabola.nu/How_to_become_a_Parabola_hacker Alternatively, try registering here - this should allow you to submit PKGBUILDs to PUR (largely unused/untested at the moment, but could be very useful if the idea takes off.): http://pur.parabola.nu/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From g4jc at openmailbox.org Fri Jun 3 02:21:37 2016 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: [Dev] Distrowatch has outdated listing for Parabola GNU/Linux-libre Message-ID: <2e908111-28bb-86db-5833-edf780bb6ebf@openmailbox.org> To Whom It May Concern: Parabola GNU/Linux-libre has had multiple releases since 2015, however your listing is out of date. For our latest downloads, please see here: https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola Our latest version as of today is Parabola 2016.06.01. Outdated listing link: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=parabola Please update the listing if at all possible, and let us know if there is anything we have to do to notify you of new releases. Thank you. Luke -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 3 04:24:13 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 00:24:13 -0400 Subject: [Dev] dbscripts changes/plans Message-ID: <871t4e99xu.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Hi guys, There was talk on IRC tonight about improving dbscripts. So I figured I'd share where we're at, and where I think we should go. == Right now == I've just now post some changes on dbscripts 'master' and updated repo to that. Pretty conservative stuff. Probably the biggest part is that there's a decent README now. I've also created the 'pending' branch. I'm pretty sure it's good to go, but I'm not quite confident enough to deploy it right before I go to bed. Bigger changes are still on the 'lukeshu/xbs' branch. The differences between 'master'/'pending' and 'lukeshu/xbs' are really small now![1] There are 2 big changes sitting there: - Stricter integration with xbs (abs/abslibre). I'm holding that back until xbs is working a little better. - db-import: A better way of importing packages from Arch Linux (replacing the handful of db-import-archlinux-* scripts). Relies on xbs a bit more. It needs to be tested. == Next Steps == From there, either modify db-import to also support Arch Linux ARM, or rename it to db-import-archlinux and create db-import-archlinuxarm (either way, replacing db-import-archlinuxarm-pkg). I think that a reading of the README suggests a number of places to improve. I think these are probably also good ways to get more/new people contributing in dbscripts! Search for the word "should"! It wouldn't be direct-feature improvement, but improving the code base would make maintenance, troubleshooting, and development much easier. Something the default config on 'lukeshu/xbs' hints at is that I would like to have separate user accounts for different tasks. I think this would help with making it hard to accidentally screw things up. Perhaps nshd[2] plays a role in this. == Road forward == In my opinion, real improvement is blocked by getting 'lukeshu/xbs' merged. Right now, every db-import-* implements its own raw access to the repos, which is aweful and error prone. It also means that if we want to make a change (keep reading), it has to be changed in a huge list of places, which aren't documented. 'lukeshu/xbs' db-import uses db-{update,move,remove} to access the repo--as everything should. Once we have those 3 programs as the single way to write to the repo, we can start improving. As long as we've supported things other than i686 and x86_64 (remember mips?), there has always been pain with arch=(any) packages. If everything writing to the repos used db-{update,move,remove} as it should, this would have never been a problem. Several of the cron jobs (namely make_repo_torrents) can just become a hook that runs on package upload. Everything becomes more fluid. Fewer cron jobs and batches. I think that a good other place to work is that moving from abslibre.git to a PBS-based[3] system would be good. PBS was designed to address the ways that git is shitty for how we use it to track PKGBUILDs. Somewhere on ArchWiki there was a page about all of the things they'd have to do to use git instead of svn, from a tooling perspective, and I was like "Oh all of the things I'm doing with PBS. Glad to know we're on the same page." Anyway, that would mean actually finishing/testing pbs-tools. Notes on that: I was trying to do the conversions with `git rewrite-branch` (basically a wrapper around `git filter-branch`, lives in the pbs-tools git repo). This was a mistake. It's just too slow. The real version will need to use `git fast-export`/`fast-import`. We may need to implement a utility to complement them, in the same way that `git rewrite-branch` complements `git filter-branch`. I say this because XBS was originally invented to abstract away the differences between pbs-tools, git/abslibre.git, and svn (as Arch Linux uses it). Using `pbs-tools` would also make adding AUR packages to our repos a lot nicer. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker [1]: Starting a bit over a year ago, changes have slowly been propegating between 'lukeshu/xbs' and 'master' -- representing the first time that changes have made their way from Arch Linux dbscripts into Parabola dbscripts since 2012! It's been challenging to identify where differences originated. Did they add code, or did we delete it? How do we unify the two increasingly different codebases? When 'lukeshu/xbs' finally gets merged into 'master' that will be the first time that commit from Arch Linux since 2012-01-08 will be a git ancestor of a commit in Parabola's dbscripts! [2]: https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/nshd.git/ [3]: https://projects.parabola.nu/packages/pbs-tools.git/ From nobody at parabola.nu Sun Jun 5 00:06:03 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2016 00:06:03 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre-lts] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160605000603.1748.66294@parabola.nu> jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * linux-libre-lts 4.4.11_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts/ * linux-libre-lts 4.4.11_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts/ * linux-libre-lts 4.4.11_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts/ * linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.11_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-docs/ * linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.11_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-docs/ * linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.11_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-docs/ * linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.11_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-headers/ * linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.11_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-headers/ * linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.11_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-headers/ The user provided the following additional text: Upstream updated From emulatorman at riseup.net Mon Jun 6 20:11:23 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 17:11:23 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract Message-ID: Hi guys, since i'm preparing the conference about Parabola at FISL17 and translate our info to my native language (Brazilian Portuguese). I paid attention that our Social Contract needs be upgraded (eg. Free Art Support). There's a discussion to make some adjustments to the contract, so i suggest your participation in the development of our new version. :) Happy hacking! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Mon Jun 6 20:32:54 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 17:32:54 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> On 06/06/2016 05:11 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > Hi guys, since i'm preparing the conference about Parabola at FISL17 and > translate our info to my native language (Brazilian Portuguese). I paid > attention that our Social Contract needs be upgraded (eg. Free Art Support). > > There's a discussion to make some adjustments to the contract, so i > suggest your participation in the development of our new version. :) > > Happy hacking! Discussion page: https://wiki.parabola.nu/Talk:Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre_Social_Contract -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From hellekin at gnu.org Mon Jun 6 23:27:43 2016 From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 23:27:43 +0000 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> Message-ID: <575606EF.4090607@gnu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 06/06/2016 08:32 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > > https://wiki.parabola.nu/Talk:Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre_Social_Contract > Your amended proposal looks good except for the capitalized "Free", when it's used as an adjective in the fourth point. This is grammatically wrong, and a capital doesn't change the meaning, except if you consider "free" not meaningful by itself. == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJXVgbuXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQ0IyNkIyRTNDNzEyMTc2OUEzNEM4ODU0 ODA2QzM2M0ZDMTg5ODNEAAoJEEgGw2P8GJg9oGEQAJS9cLDtYwhKncuGiD3P12P7 +P1Sgt+Gw/OTxtFh1e9rjt0KdP8R/CFMmBJCx9eoSZBM7amaHH1sVCN60rkQCPnG BI+ulIb0cM5IfOTDClFF7edhSlDR1eRPUVBfJZ440nAUp2ufoYclI0l6SJEjHGAK tx3Tp5sJ0iT2vZIZhJq446TeXdNeWFBOGS5uONq+Q9ZPbVNS39/7LXk6g4p8sXof Rj/vlUV/GmxCCntXJy7HHdYutbrpgpZ+4rH/n1OqNx0st4YF/IFjnvSRcJSYYZUw wAj/5IGOGrpkNtohUuifhLY/CC8mRso2Gj8p6TOWlZtr5U9th1IqTA6J9bnUio12 0mySnAbE8rcX3MJ8Y0RbEKhxOap/agVlsAL+WBJ7ygtZMbONsr/pg1VrKjcfltga pijzW5WbOKhGFvRCX5Sfz34rJYuMVx804XYOp14bafjiYQjzb8XD56baUewfChyN JnTpo0+ExOmuMvIOgBtioJBuW+kw5rU9hyctYFpbQiz85qHOH7ap/s0OvBgTuMP+ V1y+heAhWJig+KHGaend46PdwAHYjPCwRSFDx9Bk5I/6S4PUqxvEGutjBZaG8A72 5RAqgrZy8KnkM4pBOLMjyXvYSqGNjRrV7lasnnqCmGCa+vkbVL9PjqxH4WP/119d 5bo9zZdaFK6eyxREwdxc =37Zl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Jun 7 00:07:29 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 21:07:29 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <575606EF.4090607@gnu.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <575606EF.4090607@gnu.org> Message-ID: <673b4d61-7f25-1afa-13cd-9d0f4bc4e283@riseup.net> On 06/06/2016 08:27 PM, hellekin wrote: > On 06/06/2016 08:32 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > >> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Talk:Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre_Social_Contract > > > Your amended proposal looks good except for the capitalized "Free", when > it's used as an adjective in the fourth point. This is grammatically > wrong, and a capital doesn't change the meaning, except if you consider > "free" not meaningful by itself. Yes, you're right, i'll keep it as "free" instead of "Free". Thanks for the suggestion hellekin. :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 7 16:07:33 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 12:07:33 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <575606EF.4090607@gnu.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <575606EF.4090607@gnu.org> Message-ID: <87wpm16kze.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 19:27:43 -0400, hellekin wrote: > On 06/06/2016 08:32 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > > > > https://wiki.parabola.nu/Talk:Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre_Social_Contract > > > > Your amended proposal looks good except for the capitalized "Free", when > it's used as an adjective in the fourth point. This is grammatically > wrong, and a capital doesn't change the meaning, except if you consider (the capitalization of Free originated in my proposal) Nonsense, Free-with-a-capital-F is a capitonym for being in-line with the Free Software movement, as opposed to other meanings of the word free. It gets to be capitalized because its meaning is being related to the specific proper-nown movement, rather than implied-by-context specific meaning of the generic word "free". Put another way, - "free" = any of the many dictionary definitions - "Free" = libre Much more dubious is the non-capitalization of "movement" in "Free Software movement". Ultimately, it comes down to which "style guide" you are following. I picked up this style when I was closely following the planet.fsfe.org feed from 2010-2013 ish. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Jun 7 16:12:35 2016 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 13:12:35 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87wpm16kze.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <575606EF.4090607@gnu.org> <87wpm16kze.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87h9d5vuz0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Luke Shumaker writes: > > Nonsense, Free-with-a-capital-F is a capitonym for being in-line with > the Free Software movement, as opposed to other meanings of the word > free. It gets to be capitalized because its meaning is being related > to the specific proper-nown movement, rather than implied-by-context > specific meaning of the generic word "free". > > Put another way, > > - "free" = any of the many dictionary definitions > - "Free" = libre why don't we just use Libre then :P -- http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 22:17:04 2016 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 23:17:04 +0100 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87h9d5vuz0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <575606EF.4090607@gnu.org> <87wpm16kze.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87h9d5vuz0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <575747E0.9060907@gmail.com> On 07/06/16 17:12, fauno wrote: > Luke Shumaker writes: >> >> Nonsense, Free-with-a-capital-F is a capitonym for being in-line with >> the Free Software movement, as opposed to other meanings of the word >> free. It gets to be capitalized because its meaning is being related >> to the specific proper-nown movement, rather than implied-by-context >> specific meaning of the generic word "free". >> >> Put another way, >> >> - "free" = any of the many dictionary definitions >> - "Free" = libre > > why don't we just use Libre then :P I prefer using the word Libre, but some are against, due to historical reasons (... the word "Free" being used in conjunction with Free Software for many years already). From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 7 23:35:56 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 19:35:56 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Mon, 06 Jun 2016 16:32:54 -0400, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/06/2016 05:11 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > > Hi guys, since i'm preparing the conference about Parabola at FISL17 and > > translate our info to my native language (Brazilian Portuguese). I paid > > attention that our Social Contract needs be upgraded (eg. Free Art Support). > > > > There's a discussion to make some adjustments to the contract, so i > > suggest your participation in the development of our new version. :) > > > > Happy hacking! > > Discussion page: > https://wiki.parabola.nu/Talk:Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre_Social_Contract I wanted to see the changes in the actual thing and proposals over time, so I made a git repository of the social contract. https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/ Everything has been converted into Pandoc-normalized markdown, for easy `diff`ing. (I also originally had translations as branches, but rangling the rewrite filters for that got painful.) -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 7 23:59:59 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 19:59:59 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87h9d5vuz0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <575606EF.4090607@gnu.org> <87wpm16kze.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87h9d5vuz0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87shwo7dog.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 12:12:35 -0400, fauno wrote: > Luke Shumaker writes: > > > > Nonsense, Free-with-a-capital-F is a capitonym for being in-line with > > the Free Software movement, as opposed to other meanings of the word > > free. It gets to be capitalized because its meaning is being related > > to the specific proper-nown movement, rather than implied-by-context > > specific meaning of the generic word "free". > > > > Put another way, > > > > - "free" = any of the many dictionary definitions > > - "Free" = libre Note that I specifically called this out in my original 2013 proposal. https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2013-July/001554.html > why don't we just use Libre then :P Because readability, and remnants of the original wording. "non-libre" isn't a phrase I've seen before, so we say "non-free". Then, for clarity within that paragraph, we say "Free", where in another paragraph we say "libre". Really, using one or the other is just a remnant of the original wording. One of my comments on my 2013 proposal was that we should be consistent between "Free" and "libre"; as both are used in the document. But I wasn't really happy with any of the wording I tried with being consistent. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 8 01:16:23 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 21:16:23 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 19:35:56 -0400, Luke Shumaker wrote: > I wanted to see the changes in the actual thing and proposals over > time, so I made a git repository of the social contract. > > https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/ Ok, I have some comments to make after looking over the history. ======================================================================== # What's going on with the official version? # ======================================================================== In 2014-2015, Coadde made a series of edits to the official version. I remember no discussion of the changes. He did essentially several search/replaces: - "Parabola GNU/Linux" -> "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" Ok, I guess. Still, it should have been discusssed. - "ArchLinux" -> "Arch" or "Arch GNU/Linux" Saying "Arch GNU/Linux" is wrong, it should be "Arch Linux". "Arch" is acceptable shorthand after the first use. Then, a bit over a month ago, Emulatorman made a change, which I also recall no discussion of. He changed "our community is democratic in its essence" to "adhocratic in its essence". A one-word change, but quite a significant one! ======================================================================== # Separate contracts for separate operating systems? # ======================================================================== Coadde also made a variant of the Social Contract for Parabola GNU/kNuBSD-fire. Which is good! The current Social contract is about the operating system. However, I think that the Social Contract should be about the project. About Parabola, not Parabola GNU/Linux-libre. This would obviate the separate contract for the kNuBSD system. This was part of my 2013 proposal, and is still kind-of present in Emulatorman's proposal. ======================================================================== # "Parabola" vs "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre", "Arch" vs "Arch Linux" # ======================================================================== Cf. https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature Emulatorman had previously remarked that he didn't like saying "Arch Linux" in it, especially because we say "Parabola" (as opposed to "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre") in the same document. I think that comment is missing the point, and I don't like some of the wording that results from it. - "Parabola" is the project - "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" is the operating system that "Parabola" makes. I was very careful with the wording in my proposal regarding this. The current social contract is about the operating system, but my proposal made it about the project. That is, "Parabola" as used in my draft of the Social Contract is *not* shorthand. In the social contract, we should be as clear and precise as possible. The operating system is called "Arch Linux". It is an unfortunate name that contributes to the Linux vs. GNU/Linux confusion, but that is what it is factually named. Note that in my wording, I wrote "Arch Linux" the first time it appears within a paragraph, but simply "Arch" after that. I believe that this is an acceptable compromise. ======================================================================== # Name of the operating system # ======================================================================== Cf. https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature Related to that, when the Social Contract discusses the operating system(s) that we make, I don't believe it should do so by name. The original wording was: > 4. Parabola GNU/Linux and ArchLinux: Parabola is the free version of > ArchLinux. In my proposal, I changed that to: > 4. Parabola and Arch Linux: We will produce an operating system > that is a Free version of Arch Linux, and possibly other > Arch-based systems. Emulatorman partially reverted that to: > 4. Parabola and Arch**: Parabola is a Free version of Arch, and > possibly other Arch-based systems. Again, if we are being precise, then Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is the Free version of Arch. But I oppose saying "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" in the Social Contract, because it is overly specific. The name of the operating system we make shouldn't be part of the Social Contract; it is an implementation detail, not an essential detail. What if tomorrow we decided that it would be better to use a different libre fork of Linux than Linux-libre? Should our Social Contract have to be ammended to allow that? No, that would be absurd. ======================================================================== # Free Art Movement? # ======================================================================== I feel kinda silly saying this, but: I'm not familiar with a Free Art Movement. And even if I'm silly for that, we shouldn't assume that the reader of the Social Contract is more informed than me. And searching for it yields results that I don't think are related. I am familiar with the Free Culture movement. How is this different? With the Free Software Movement, we have a link to Wikipedia, in case the reader is unfamiliar with it. We have details on what that means. The same isn't true for Free Art. It just says "it does not provide any type of support for non-free art." and tacks on "and art" after "software." With no real details. It references the FSDG for software, then just says "and art". What does it mean to "not provide ? support for non-free art."? ======================================================================== # External links # ======================================================================== The links that are in the contract have been there since it was created. I'm not sure I like linking to Wikipedia. It may change, and it may not represent the views we want to endorse. I think that we should instead link to the FSF, GNU, or maybe the FSFe. Possible links for "Free Software Movement: - https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software - https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-intro.html I can't find a good link to use for "binary blobs", but perhaps we should just un-link it? -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From emulatorman at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 05:21:27 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 02:21:27 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> Hi guys, i'm sending a copy of this email to libreplanet-discuss, gnu-linux-libre and rms to get a better consensus for our Social Contract since Parabola is a distro endorsed by FSF and our Social Contract is a very important point to be discussed. Note: Lukeshu [0], Coadde [1] and me (Emulatorman) [2] are Parabola devs. Beginning of this consensus was in https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-June/004049.html It is our current Social Contract -> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre_Social_Contract It is our discussion about proposal for the new version -> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Talk:Parabola_GNU/Linux-libre_Social_Contract The next one, i'm responding some points about the proposals made for the new version of Parabola Social Contract. On 06/07/2016 10:16 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > ======================================================================== > # What's going on with the official version? # > ======================================================================== > > In 2014-2015, Coadde made a series of edits to the official version. > I remember no discussion of the changes. > > He did essentially several search/replaces: > - "ArchLinux" -> "Arch" or "Arch GNU/Linux" > Saying "Arch GNU/Linux" is wrong, it should be "Arch Linux". > "Arch" is acceptable shorthand after the first use. So, why FSF article about common distros [3] says "Arch GNU/Linux"? In my opinion, we should do the same than FSF article for our Social Contract to avoid the wrong name 'Linux' as operating system. > ======================================================================== > # "Parabola" vs "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre", "Arch" vs "Arch Linux" # > ======================================================================== > > Cf. https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature > > Emulatorman had previously remarked that he didn't like saying "Arch > Linux" in it, especially because we say "Parabola" (as opposed to > "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre") in the same document. I think that > comment is missing the point, and I don't like some of the wording > that results from it. > > - "Parabola" is the project > - "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" is the operating system that "Parabola" > makes. > > I was very careful with the wording in my proposal regarding this. > The current social contract is about the operating system, but my > proposal made it about the project. > > That is, "Parabola" as used in my draft of the Social Contract is > *not* shorthand. > > In the social contract, we should be as clear and precise as > possible. The operating system is called "Arch Linux". It is an > unfortunate name that contributes to the Linux vs. GNU/Linux > confusion, but that is what it is factually named. Note that in my > wording, I wrote "Arch Linux" the first time it appears within a > paragraph, but simply "Arch" after that. I believe that this is an > acceptable compromise. You say "we should be as clear and precise as possible". Put the inappropriate name "Linux" as operating system of Arch gives people the wrong idea and conveys a mistaken idea of the system's origin, history, purpose, even if it is the factually named by the Arch devs. Parabola as endorsed FSF distro shouldn't use it, mainly in the Social Contract. There's an important point in the article "Why the ?Linux system? should be called GNU/Linux" [4] that says: "Linux has been associated ever since it was first coined with a philosophy that does not make a commitment to the freedom to cooperate." Also, there is another important point in the part "Name Confusion" of the Free System Distribution Guidelines (GNU FSDG) article [5] that says: "this (in this case Parabola) would promote a misunderstanding of what ?GNU? means. GNU is an operating system, typically used with Linux as the kernel, and essentially all so-called ?Linux? distributions are really GNU/Linux distributions. In this scenario, both versions are GNU/Linux, and it would be misleading to omit ?GNU? from the name of one of them." [0]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/#lukeshu [1]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/#coadde [2]:https://www.parabola.nu/people/hackers/#Emulatorman [3]:https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros [4]:https://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html [5]:https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-system-distribution-guidelines -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Wed Jun 8 05:21:30 2016 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 02:21:30 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87mvmw1cit.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Luke Shumaker writes: > On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 19:35:56 -0400, > Luke Shumaker wrote: >> I wanted to see the changes in the actual thing and proposals over >> time, so I made a git repository of the social contract. >> >> https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/ > > Ok, I have some comments to make after looking over the history. > > ======================================================================== > # What's going on with the official version? # > ======================================================================== > > In 2014-2015, Coadde made a series of edits to the official version. > I remember no discussion of the changes. > > He did essentially several search/replaces: > > - "Parabola GNU/Linux" -> "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" > Ok, I guess. Still, it should have been discusssed. > > - "ArchLinux" -> "Arch" or "Arch GNU/Linux" > Saying "Arch GNU/Linux" is wrong, it should be "Arch Linux". > "Arch" is acceptable shorthand after the first use. the name of the distro is archlinux. we shouldn't impose our point of view on their name and that's why we forked into parabola (i was opposed to call parabola an independent distro too, but we grew out of it...) one of the first parabola hackers even tried to ask arch-devs to have a [nonfree] repo like debian, it should be on the arch-dev-public mailing list archive somewhere in 2008-2009 :P > Then, a bit over a month ago, Emulatorman made a change, which I also > recall no discussion of. He changed "our community is democratic in > its essence" to "adhocratic in its essence". A one-word change, but > quite a significant one! i'm ok with both, but for historical reasons we used democratic, since back when we started parabola we felt the arch the project wasn't democratic at all (ie you're an arch dev, a trusted user or stfu) no idea where the change to adhocratic came from > ======================================================================== > # Separate contracts for separate operating systems? # > ======================================================================== > > Coadde also made a variant of the Social Contract for Parabola > GNU/kNuBSD-fire. Which is good! The current Social contract is about > the operating system. > > However, I think that the Social Contract should be about the project. > About Parabola, not Parabola GNU/Linux-libre. This would obviate the > separate contract for the kNuBSD system. This was part of my 2013 > proposal, and is still kind-of present in Emulatorman's proposal. +1 > ======================================================================== > # "Parabola" vs "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre", "Arch" vs "Arch Linux" # > ======================================================================== > > Cf. https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature > > Emulatorman had previously remarked that he didn't like saying "Arch > Linux" in it, especially because we say "Parabola" (as opposed to > "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre") in the same document. I think that > comment is missing the point, and I don't like some of the wording > that results from it. > > - "Parabola" is the project > - "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" is the operating system that "Parabola" > makes. +1 > I was very careful with the wording in my proposal regarding this. > The current social contract is about the operating system, but my > proposal made it about the project. > > That is, "Parabola" as used in my draft of the Social Contract is > *not* shorthand. +1 > In the social contract, we should be as clear and precise as > possible. The operating system is called "Arch Linux". It is an > unfortunate name that contributes to the Linux vs. GNU/Linux > confusion, but that is what it is factually named. Note that in my > wording, I wrote "Arch Linux" the first time it appears within a > paragraph, but simply "Arch" after that. I believe that this is an > acceptable compromise. +1 > ======================================================================== > # Name of the operating system # > ======================================================================== > > Cf. https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature > > Related to that, when the Social Contract discusses the operating > system(s) that we make, I don't believe it should do so by name. > > The original wording was: >> 4. Parabola GNU/Linux and ArchLinux: Parabola is the free version of >> ArchLinux. > > In my proposal, I changed that to: >> 4. Parabola and Arch Linux: We will produce an operating system >> that is a Free version of Arch Linux, and possibly other >> Arch-based systems. > > Emulatorman partially reverted that to: >> 4. Parabola and Arch**: Parabola is a Free version of Arch, and >> possibly other Arch-based systems. > > Again, if we are being precise, then Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is the > Free version of Arch. > > But I oppose saying "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" in the Social Contract, > because it is overly specific. The name of the operating system we > make shouldn't be part of the Social Contract; it is an implementation > detail, not an essential detail. > > What if tomorrow we decided that it would be better to use a different > libre fork of Linux than Linux-libre? Should our Social Contract have > to be ammended to allow that? No, that would be absurd. +1 > ======================================================================== > # Free Art Movement? # > ======================================================================== > > I feel kinda silly saying this, but: I'm not familiar with a Free Art > Movement. And even if I'm silly for that, we shouldn't assume that > the reader of the Social Contract is more informed than me. And > searching for it yields results that I don't think are related. > > I am familiar with the Free Culture movement. How is this different? > > With the Free Software Movement, we have a link to Wikipedia, in case > the reader is unfamiliar with it. We have details on what that > means. > > The same isn't true for Free Art. It just says "it does not provide > any type of support for non-free art." and tacks on "and art" after > "software." With no real details. It references the FSDG for > software, then just says "and art". What does it mean to "not provide > ? support for non-free art."? i felt the same way... didn't we have wording stating that since we supported free software & culture we weren't going to provide non-free art and documents such as game art and non-free documentation? i remember mtjm saying we should remove documentation under gnu fdl with invariant sections too (though i don't recall any specific package that contained such documentation). > ======================================================================== > # External links # > ======================================================================== > > The links that are in the contract have been there since it was > created. I'm not sure I like linking to Wikipedia. It may change, > and it may not represent the views we want to endorse. > > I think that we should instead link to the FSF, GNU, or maybe the FSFe. > > Possible links for "Free Software Movement: > - https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software > - https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-intro.html > > I can't find a good link to use for "binary blobs", but perhaps we > should just un-link it? +1 to not link to wikipedia, where they sistematically changed the parabola article to be about an "open source linux distribution" :D (by a guy who only contributed articles on war machinery and nothing about free software...) -- .o?) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From coadde at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 13:22:00 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:22:00 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On 06/07/2016 10:16 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > ======================================================================== > # What's going on with the official version? # > ======================================================================== > > In 2014-2015, Coadde made a series of edits to the official version. > I remember no discussion of the changes. > > He did essentially several search/replaces: > > - "Parabola GNU/Linux" -> "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" > Ok, I guess. Still, it should have been discusssed. > > - "ArchLinux" -> "Arch" or "Arch GNU/Linux" > Saying "Arch GNU/Linux" is wrong, it should be "Arch Linux". > "Arch" is acceptable shorthand after the first use. > > Then, a bit over a month ago, Emulatorman made a change, which I also > recall no discussion of. He changed "our community is democratic in > its essence" to "adhocratic in its essence". A one-word change, but > quite a significant one! 1) The distribution has been officially named as Parabola GNU/Linux-libre and it doesn't needs a discussion. 2) I'm not agree so-called "Linux" distributions should be named as "Linux" in our Social Contract, even if it is the factually named by them. 3) I'm not agree about FOSS[0] (even it isn't included in our Social Contract) 4) It is a free as in freedom distribution that follows the GNU FSDG, therefore we shouldn't support "Open Source" goal implicitly, even if "Arch Linux" is the factually named by them. 5) Democracy doesn't works. Adhocracy is the way for Parabola. [0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/floss-and-foss.en.html > ======================================================================== > # Separate contracts for separate operating systems? # > ======================================================================== > > Coadde also made a variant of the Social Contract for Parabola > GNU/kNuBSD-fire. Which is good! The current Social contract is about > the operating system. > > However, I think that the Social Contract should be about the project. > About Parabola, not Parabola GNU/Linux-libre. This would obviate the > separate contract for the kNuBSD system. This was part of my 2013 > proposal, and is still kind-of present in Emulatorman's proposal. +1 it's right, is better that our Social Contract should be about the project, no a specific system (and it should be called as Parabola Social Contract). > ======================================================================== > # "Parabola" vs "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre", "Arch" vs "Arch Linux" # > ======================================================================== > > Cf. https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature > > Emulatorman had previously remarked that he didn't like saying "Arch > Linux" in it, especially because we say "Parabola" (as opposed to > "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre") in the same document. I think that > comment is missing the point, and I don't like some of the wording > that results from it. > > - "Parabola" is the project > - "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" is the operating system that "Parabola" > makes. > > I was very careful with the wording in my proposal regarding this. > The current social contract is about the operating system, but my > proposal made it about the project. > > That is, "Parabola" as used in my draft of the Social Contract is > *not* shorthand. > > In the social contract, we should be as clear and precise as > possible. The operating system is called "Arch Linux". It is an > unfortunate name that contributes to the Linux vs. GNU/Linux > confusion, but that is what it is factually named. Note that in my > wording, I wrote "Arch Linux" the first time it appears within a > paragraph, but simply "Arch" after that. I believe that this is an > acceptable compromise. Again, i'm not agree about FOSS because it doesn't respects the GNU FSDG in the name confusion. > ======================================================================== > # Name of the operating system # > ======================================================================== > > Cf. https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature > > Related to that, when the Social Contract discusses the operating > system(s) that we make, I don't believe it should do so by name. > > The original wording was: >> 4. Parabola GNU/Linux and ArchLinux: Parabola is the free version of >> ArchLinux. > > In my proposal, I changed that to: >> 4. Parabola and Arch Linux: We will produce an operating system >> that is a Free version of Arch Linux, and possibly other >> Arch-based systems. > > Emulatorman partially reverted that to: >> 4. Parabola and Arch**: Parabola is a Free version of Arch, and >> possibly other Arch-based systems. > > Again, if we are being precise, then Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is the > Free version of Arch. > > But I oppose saying "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" in the Social Contract, > because it is overly specific. The name of the operating system we > make shouldn't be part of the Social Contract; it is an implementation > detail, not an essential detail. > > What if tomorrow we decided that it would be better to use a different > libre fork of Linux than Linux-libre? Should our Social Contract have > to be ammended to allow that? No, that would be absurd. I mean it again, i'm not agree about FOSS because it doesn't respects the GNU FSDG in the name confusion. > ======================================================================== > # Free Art Movement? # > ======================================================================== > > I feel kinda silly saying this, but: I'm not familiar with a Free Art > Movement. And even if I'm silly for that, we shouldn't assume that > the reader of the Social Contract is more informed than me. And > searching for it yields results that I don't think are related. > > I am familiar with the Free Culture movement. How is this different? > > With the Free Software Movement, we have a link to Wikipedia, in case > the reader is unfamiliar with it. We have details on what that > means. > > The same isn't true for Free Art. It just says "it does not provide > any type of support for non-free art." and tacks on "and art" after > "software." With no real details. It references the FSDG for > software, then just says "and art". What does it mean to "not provide > ? support for non-free art."? I prefer our Social Contract could means about free software, documents and multimedia. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rms at gnu.org Wed Jun 8 17:06:28 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 13:06:28 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9?= Silva on Wed, 8 Jun 2016 02:21:27 -0300) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > He did essentially several search/replaces: > > - "ArchLinux" -> "Arch" or "Arch GNU/Linux" > > Saying "Arch GNU/Linux" is wrong, it should be "Arch Linux". > > "Arch" is acceptable shorthand after the first use. "Arch Linux" is a misnomer, because the system is GNU/Linux. This is a variant of GNU/Linux, which they have decided to call "Arch". That makes it Arch GNU/Linux. That is what we should call it. It is fine to shorten it to "Arch" after the first use. It is unfortunate that the developers of Arch GNU/Linux persist in using the erroneous term "Arch Linux". So let's not repeat their error. There is no reason they should. Their error has no moral authority. If they are going to disregard our moral authority and call our system "Linux", they are hardly entitled to criticize us for correcting their error. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From nobody at parabola.nu Wed Jun 8 21:42:34 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 21:42:34 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [parabolaweb-utils] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160608214234.1749.13317@parabola.nu> usuario at airmail.cc wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * parabolaweb-dev 1:20160519-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/parabolaweb-dev/ * parabolaweb-dev 1:20160519-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/parabolaweb-dev/ * parabolaweb-dev 1:20160519-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/parabolaweb-dev/ * parabolaweb-utils 1:20160519-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/parabolaweb-utils/ * parabolaweb-utils 1:20160519-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/parabolaweb-utils/ * parabolaweb-utils 1:20160519-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/parabolaweb-utils/ * parabolaweb-utils-debug 1:20150417-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/parabolaweb-utils-debug/ The user provided the following additional text: Some of the Python dependencies specify version numbers that can't be found in the repository From coadde at riseup.net Thu Jun 9 00:44:27 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 21:44:27 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1465400584.23445.30.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465400584.23445.30.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> Message-ID: <72cd9fb0-c247-27cb-12e6-2104b16790ca@riseup.net> On 06/08/2016 12:43 PM, Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote: > Well, unless I was really blind, I couldn't see the original sender > (Luke Shumaker?) saying anything about "FOSS". Yes it's right! he never means FOSS, however his thinking is based on it about operating system terms for Parabola and Arch projects. In "FLOSS and FOSS" article from gnu.org says: "?Free and Open Source Software? is misleading in another way: it suggests that ?free and open source? names a single point of view, rather than mentioning two different ones. This conceptualization of the field is an obstacle to understanding the fact that free software and open source are different political positions that disagree fundamentally." See https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/floss-and-foss.en.html for further details. > It's also important to note that, there is a definition of what "free > culture" is, and it's guarded by the Definition of Free Cultural Works. > Most people assume that every free software activist is a free culture > activist, but that's not always true. ok, you are right, but what about artwork that does not allow derivative works and commercialization? Even somebody can make the modifying and re-using of images, videos and sounds (eg. somebody can modify a image colour, merge 2 videos, change and modify the sound or add/merge parts that forms parts from another projects (that are allowed through the license). Therefore, Free Cultural Works is very important for the freedom. i don't mean if any artwork needs source code but we could modify, re-use, redistribute and sell them under our freedom principles. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Thu Jun 9 01:50:32 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 01:50:32 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160609015032.1748.29567@parabola.nu> eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * iceweasel 1:46.0.1.deb1-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel/ * iceweasel 1:46.0.1.deb1-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel/ * iceweasel-debug 1:46.0.1.deb1-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel-debug/ * iceweasel-debug 1:46.0.1.deb1-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel-debug/ The user provided the following additional text: Firefox release branch is on the 47 version. From nobody at parabola.nu Thu Jun 9 01:51:56 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 01:51:56 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel-l10n-es-ar] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160609015156.1750.17522@parabola.nu> eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * iceweasel-l10n-ach 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ach/ * iceweasel-l10n-af 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-af/ * iceweasel-l10n-an 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-an/ * iceweasel-l10n-ar 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ar/ * iceweasel-l10n-as 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-as/ * iceweasel-l10n-ast 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https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-sr/ * iceweasel-l10n-sv-se 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-sv-se/ * iceweasel-l10n-ta 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-ta/ * iceweasel-l10n-te 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-te/ * iceweasel-l10n-th 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-th/ * iceweasel-l10n-tr 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-tr/ * iceweasel-l10n-uk 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-uk/ * iceweasel-l10n-uz 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-uz/ * iceweasel-l10n-vi 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-vi/ * iceweasel-l10n-xh 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-xh/ * iceweasel-l10n-zh-cn 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-zh-cn/ * iceweasel-l10n-zh-tw 1:46.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-l10n-zh-tw/ The user provided the following additional text: Firefox release branch is now on version 47. That includes the languages packs. Please, update them. From nobody at parabola.nu Thu Jun 9 01:53:50 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 01:53:50 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [ambiance-radiance-colors-suite] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160609015350.1748.18344@parabola.nu> eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * ambiance-radiance-colors-suite 15.04.3-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/ambiance-radiance-colors-suite/ The user provided the following additional text: The actual version of this theme suite is on the 16.04, and includes improvements for GTK3+ desktop enviroments. From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 03:44:51 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 23:44:51 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87mvmw1cit.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87mvmw1cit.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87mvmv6n64.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 01:21:30 -0400, fauno wrote: > > I feel kinda silly saying this, but: I'm not familiar with a Free Art > > Movement. And even if I'm silly for that, we shouldn't assume that > > the reader of the Social Contract is more informed than me. And > > searching for it yields results that I don't think are related. > > > > I am familiar with the Free Culture movement. How is this different? > > > > With the Free Software Movement, we have a link to Wikipedia, in case > > the reader is unfamiliar with it. We have details on what that > > means. > > > > The same isn't true for Free Art. It just says "it does not provide > > any type of support for non-free art." and tacks on "and art" after > > "software." With no real details. It references the FSDG for > > software, then just says "and art". What does it mean to "not provide > > ? support for non-free art."? > > i felt the same way... didn't we have wording stating that since we > supported free software & culture we weren't going to provide non-free > art and documents such as game art and non-free documentation? i > remember mtjm saying we should remove documentation under gnu fdl with > invariant sections too (though i don't recall any specific package that > contained such documentation). Perhaps you are thinking about the Ceata agreement, which includes bits about Free Culture? In 2013 we discussed that adding Free Culture to the Social Contract would be a good idea, but I don't believe any wording was proposed. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 04:24:01 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 00:24:01 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1465400584.23445.30.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465400584.23445.30.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> Message-ID: <87lh2f6lcu.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 11:43:04 -0400, Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote: > Well, unless I was really blind, I couldn't see the original sender > (Luke Shumaker?) saying anything about "FOSS". I didn't start the thread, but it was my email that Andr? was directly replying to in the first email that went to libreplanet-discuss. > It's funny fact that there is a GNU package/software called Arch, so > making a distinction as to which "Arch" the contract talks about is a > good thing. I was thinking about GNU Arch too, but it didn't make it into my email :) > [Insisting that all everything be Free Culture] actually makes most > free software projects ineligible for inclusion on system > distributions that follow the current Definition of Free Cultural > Works, since following this definition results in questions of > whether that file is the preferred form of modification or the > complete corresponding source. Not to mention that sometimes the the "culture" stuff is just straight-up not Free Culture. Take for example, the several essays by RMS that are included with Emacs. I think that stripping those out would be insane. We'd also probably run into the same issue as Debian with considering some GNU manuals non-free. I absolutely oppose anything that would require us to not ship GNU manuals. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 05:26:34 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 01:26:34 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 01:21:27 -0400, Andr? Silva wrote: > > He did essentially several search/replaces: > > - "ArchLinux" -> "Arch" or "Arch GNU/Linux" > > Saying "Arch GNU/Linux" is wrong, it should be "Arch Linux". > > "Arch" is acceptable shorthand after the first use. > > So, why FSF article about common distros [3] says "Arch GNU/Linux"? > > In my opinion, we should do the same than FSF article for our Social > Contract to avoid the wrong name 'Linux' as operating system. The full name of the operating system that Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is based on is "Arch Linux". The name "Arch Linux" is an unfortunate misnomer, as it is a variant of GNU/Linux but lacks "GNU" in the name. Justifiably and understandably, RMS (and thus the FSF) believes that because GNU is being wronged by being left out of the name while "Linux" is included, that it is right and just to similarly mutilate Arch Linux' name. That the Arch developers have no moral authority to insist otherwise, as they are guilty of the same act. I don't disagree with this, in the general case. However, there are two factors that make me feel otherwise here: 1. In this formal context, I believe that we should use formal name given to it by its developers. So, why do we (Parabola) still call it "Arch Linux" in some informal contexts (when we don't call it just "Arch", which we do most of the time)? 2. Maybe they don't have moral authority to insist on it, but Arch developers insist on it anyway. And Parabola maintaining a good relationship with them is a good idea. > > In the social contract, we should be as clear and precise as > > possible. The operating system is called "Arch Linux". It is an > > unfortunate name that contributes to the Linux vs. GNU/Linux > > confusion, but that is what it is factually named. Note that in my > > wording, I wrote "Arch Linux" the first time it appears within a > > paragraph, but simply "Arch" after that. I believe that this is an > > acceptable compromise. > > You say "we should be as clear and precise as possible". Put the > inappropriate name "Linux" as operating system of Arch gives people the > wrong idea and conveys a mistaken idea of the system's origin, history, > purpose, even if it is the factually named by the Arch devs. Parabola as > endorsed FSF distro shouldn't use it, mainly in the Social Contract. > > There's an important point in the article "Why the ?Linux system? should > be called GNU/Linux" [4] that says: "Linux has been associated ever > since it was first coined with a philosophy that does not make a > commitment to the freedom to cooperate." Note that we generally don't refer to it as "Arch Linux", and that it's usually just "Arch" in our documentation. Options for how to refer to it - "Arch Linux" Obvious problems that you are bringing up. - "Arch GNU/Linux" I oppose calling it this in our Social Contract because that's not what it is named. - "Arch" Just avoid the issue altogether, right? Well, there can be confusion here. Besides GNU Arch, (a version control system) there are several other operating systems that use "Arch" as the principal part of their name; "Arch Hurd" and "Arch Linux ARM" to name two. These two aren't what clause 4 in our Social Contract is referring to. Perhaps we should add a clause 5 for Arch Linux ARM; but that's not what clause 4 is about. - new idea, see below Or, less simply, we could use the following as the opeing bit of clause 4: 4. **Parabola and Arch Linux**: We will produce an operating system that is a Free version of the GNU/Linux system [Arch Linux](http://www.archlinux.org/), It's a little wordy, but I'd approve of it. > Also, there is another > important point in the part "Name Confusion" of the Free System > Distribution Guidelines (GNU FSDG) article [5] that says: "this (in this > case Parabola) would promote a misunderstanding of what ?GNU? means." That part of the FSDG is actually not talking about this scenario. The scenario described by that part of the FSDG is if there were a GNU/Linux operating system called "Foobar" or "Foobar Linux" that contained non-free code, and a flavor of it that was 100% Free called "GNU Foobar", "Foobar GNU", or "Foobar GNU/Linux". That is, it is speaking specifically about the dichotomy of having two variants of the operating system, the where a variant without "GNU" in the name does not obey the FSDG, and a variant with "GNU" in the name does obey the FSDG (other than the section about name confusion). It would be like if we took non-free "Arch Linux" and made our free derivate of it and called it "Arch GNU/Linux". (Sorry for any typos, I'm not yet quite used to the tiny keyboard on the X60 that I'm typeing this on.) -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 05:46:57 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 01:46:57 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87inxi7w32.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 09:22:00 -0400, coadde wrote: > On 06/07/2016 10:16 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > > ======================================================================== > > # What's going on with the official version? # > > ======================================================================== > > > > In 2014-2015, Coadde made a series of edits to the official version. > > I remember no discussion of the changes. > > > > He did essentially several search/replaces: > > > > - "Parabola GNU/Linux" -> "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" > > Ok, I guess. Still, it should have been discusssed. > > > > - "ArchLinux" -> "Arch" or "Arch GNU/Linux" > > Saying "Arch GNU/Linux" is wrong, it should be "Arch Linux". > > "Arch" is acceptable shorthand after the first use. > > > > Then, a bit over a month ago, Emulatorman made a change, which I also > > recall no discussion of. He changed "our community is democratic in > > its essence" to "adhocratic in its essence". A one-word change, but > > quite a significant one! > > 1) The distribution has been officially named as Parabola > GNU/Linux-libre and it doesn't needs a discussion. Well, most of the motivation for my 2013 proposal that didn't pass was just clarifying nomenclature. > 2) I'm not agree so-called "Linux" distributions should be named as > "Linux" in our Social Contract, even if it is the factually named by them. See the reply I just sent to Andr?'s message. > 3) I'm not agree about FOSS[0] (even it isn't included in our Social > Contract) > > [0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/floss-and-foss.en.html I'm not sure where this comment came from. > 4) It is a free as in freedom distribution that follows the GNU FSDG, > therefore we shouldn't support "Open Source" goal implicitly, even if > "Arch Linux" is the factually named by them. See the reply I just sent to Andr?'s message. > 5) Democracy doesn't works. Adhocracy is the way for Parabola. That's a very loaded claim. Maybe it is true, but it certainly requires discussion before ammending the Social Contract to say that. Launching point for further discussion: there was good discussion about how to do governance when we were figuring out the Ceata agreement. > > In the social contract, we should be as clear and precise as > > possible. The operating system is called "Arch Linux". It is an > > unfortunate name that contributes to the Linux vs. GNU/Linux > > confusion, but that is what it is factually named. Note that in my > > wording, I wrote "Arch Linux" the first time it appears within a > > paragraph, but simply "Arch" after that. I believe that this is an > > acceptable compromise. > > Again, i'm not agree about FOSS because it doesn't respects the GNU FSDG > in the name confusion. See the reply I just sent to Andr?'s message. If you are referring to this as being a potential violation of the FSDG's "Name Confusion" section, this is actually not what that section describes; I also addressed this in my reply to Andr?'s message. > > ======================================================================== > > # Name of the [Parabola] operating system # > > ======================================================================== > > > > Cf. https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature > > > > Related to that, when the Social Contract discusses the operating > > system(s) that we make, I don't believe it should do so by name. > > > > The original wording was: > >> 4. Parabola GNU/Linux and ArchLinux: Parabola is the free version of > >> ArchLinux. > > > > In my proposal, I changed that to: > >> 4. Parabola and Arch Linux: We will produce an operating system > >> that is a Free version of Arch Linux, and possibly other > >> Arch-based systems. > > > > Emulatorman partially reverted that to: > >> 4. Parabola and Arch**: Parabola is a Free version of Arch, and > >> possibly other Arch-based systems. > > > > Again, if we are being precise, then Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is the > > Free version of Arch. > > > > But I oppose saying "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre" in the Social Contract, > > because it is overly specific. The name of the operating system we > > make shouldn't be part of the Social Contract; it is an implementation > > detail, not an essential detail. > > > > What if tomorrow we decided that it would be better to use a different > > libre fork of Linux than Linux-libre? Should our Social Contract have > > to be ammended to allow that? No, that would be absurd. > > I mean it again, i'm not agree about FOSS because it doesn't respects > the GNU FSDG in the name confusion. In this section I didn't mean to discuss how we refer to Arch. I meant to discuss how the Social Contract refers to the operating system that Parabola makes. Specifically, I oppose referring to it by name (the name being "Parabola GNU/Linux-libre"). > > ======================================================================== > > # Free Art Movement? # > > ======================================================================== > > > > I feel kinda silly saying this, but: I'm not familiar with a Free Art > > Movement. And even if I'm silly for that, we shouldn't assume that > > the reader of the Social Contract is more informed than me. And > > searching for it yields results that I don't think are related. > > > > I am familiar with the Free Culture movement. How is this different? > > > > With the Free Software Movement, we have a link to Wikipedia, in case > > the reader is unfamiliar with it. We have details on what that > > means. > > > > The same isn't true for Free Art. It just says "it does not provide > > any type of support for non-free art." and tacks on "and art" after > > "software." With no real details. It references the FSDG for > > software, then just says "and art". What does it mean to "not provide > > ? support for non-free art."? > > I prefer our Social Contract could means about free software, documents > and multimedia. In this section I wasn't opposing adding Free Art/Culture stuff to the Social Contract (back in 2013 I suggested that we should add Free Culture stuff to it). But I was noting that the proposed wording doing so is bad and unclear. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Thu Jun 9 06:13:57 2016 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 03:13:57 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87inxi7w32.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxi7w32.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87shwmzy6y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Luke Shumaker writes: >> 5) Democracy doesn't works. Adhocracy is the way for Parabola. > > That's a very loaded claim. Maybe it is true, but it certainly > requires discussion before ammending the Social Contract to say that. > > Launching point for further discussion: there was good discussion > about how to do governance when we were figuring out the Ceata > agreement. i agree, adhocratically changing the governance method described on the social contract was not ok, even when it's the more or less de facto method. why wasn't this change discussed like we endlessly discuss how should we refer to arch? i won't turn any tables over it though, it's not like it changed from democratic to "benevolent" dictatorship :P but it would be good to provide links on discussions about governance that happened on this list for further reference. i'd also prefer we put our heads on a clear "how to become a parabola hacker" document rather than clarifying the social contract. -- P) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Thu Jun 9 12:21:49 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 12:21:49 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre-lts] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160609122149.1749.84310@parabola.nu> jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * linux-libre-lts 4.4.12_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts/ * linux-libre-lts 4.4.12_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts/ * linux-libre-lts 4.4.12_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts/ * linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.12_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-docs/ * linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.12_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-docs/ * linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.12_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-docs/ * linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.12_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-headers/ * linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.12_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-headers/ * linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.12_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-headers/ The user provided the following additional text: Updated to 4.4.13 From nobody at parabola.nu Thu Jun 9 12:21:59 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 12:21:59 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160609122159.1748.65117@parabola.nu> jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * linux-libre 4.6.1_gnu-2 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre/ * linux-libre 4.6.1_gnu-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre/ * linux-libre 4.6.1_gnu-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre/ * linux-libre-docs 4.6.1_gnu-2 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-docs/ * linux-libre-docs 4.6.1_gnu-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-docs/ * linux-libre-docs 4.6.1_gnu-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-docs/ * linux-libre-headers 4.6.1_gnu-2 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-headers/ * linux-libre-headers 4.6.1_gnu-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-headers/ * linux-libre-headers 4.6.1_gnu-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-headers/ The user provided the following additional text: Updated to 4.6.2 From emulatorman at riseup.net Thu Jun 9 19:16:14 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 16:16:14 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On 06/09/2016 02:26 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > 2. Maybe they don't have moral authority to insist on it, but Arch > developers insist on it anyway. And Parabola maintaining a good > relationship with them is a good idea. > > Or, less simply, we could use the following as the opeing bit of > clause 4: > > 4. **Parabola and Arch Linux**: We will produce an operating system > that is a Free version of the GNU/Linux system [Arch > Linux](http://www.archlinux.org/), > > It's a little wordy, but I'd approve of it. Yes, you're right in that point, however Parabola is maintaining a good relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard Stallman too and they insist we use 'Arch GNU/Linux' instead. In some words, if we put in the Social Contract 'Arch Linux', we will maintain a good relationship with Arch guys, if we put 'Arch GNU/Linux', we will maintain a good relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard Stallman. What should we use? good question and big problem. New proposal for clause 4 need more work yet. You and me know that Parabola is the project and Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is the former Parabola operating system, however a new user or newbie don't know about it if we don't explain with details here. Another point is that Parabola ARM is very different than Arch ARM project, Parabola ARM is based on them, however the main structure is based on main Arch project (eg. my kernels are adapted with the same structure than Arch project to give support to multiples kernels installed in the same machine for future bootloaders (eg. GRUB and Extlinux) instead of Arch ARM project that is adapted just for U-Boot to use one kernel installed per system). Even, i have plans to begin Parabola GNU+Hurd project based on Arch GNU+Hurd after my conference about Parabola at FISL17. Otherwise, we should clarify points about Free Culture Works in Parabola too and it needs work too. Therefore our Social Contract needs more points to explains with details about those points without contradictions. Otherwise, shouldn't all clauses in our Social Contract be revised under a lawyer too? Maybe FSF or Fundatia Ceata (through Tiberiu) could help us on it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 19:45:47 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 15:45:47 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [FYI] Rebasing last couple of commits on [libretools.git] [master] Message-ID: <87y46e16z8.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> I'm about to rebase last couple of commits on libretools.git master. Which of course means that I will be force-pushing afterword. Everything changing will be after the last tag/release. This is to hide grossness after rebasing lukeshu.com/git/autothing.git, which is merged into the libretools master. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 20:23:31 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 16:23:31 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [FYI] Rebasing last couple of commits on [libretools.git] [master] In-Reply-To: <87y46e16z8.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <87y46e16z8.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87shwm158c.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> It is done. -- ~ Luke Shumaker From emulatorman at riseup.net Thu Jun 9 23:46:27 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 20:46:27 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <20160610090849.951d7da5bdba513d6ad998e0@openmailbox.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <20160610090849.951d7da5bdba513d6ad998e0@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> On 06/09/2016 08:08 PM, Riley Baird wrote: >> Yes, you're right in that point, however Parabola is maintaining a good >> relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard Stallman too and they >> insist we use 'Arch GNU/Linux' instead. >> >> In some words, if we put in the Social Contract 'Arch Linux', we will >> maintain a good relationship with Arch guys, if we put 'Arch GNU/Linux', >> we will maintain a good relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard >> Stallman. What should we use? good question and big problem. > > What about "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)"? +1 I agree with your suggestion because it solves this issue for the Social Contract. >> Otherwise, shouldn't all clauses in our Social Contract be revised under >> a lawyer too? Maybe FSF or Fundatia Ceata (through Tiberiu) could help >> us on it. > > Why do you need a lawyer? I think we need a lawyer to see if it needs more clarification and avoid contradictions in our clauses. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Thu Jun 9 23:53:11 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 20:53:11 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <20160610090849.951d7da5bdba513d6ad998e0@openmailbox.org> <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5a4ca77e-1b1b-1f5a-ced3-da2d51267fa1@riseup.net> On 06/09/2016 08:46 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/09/2016 08:08 PM, Riley Baird wrote: >>> Yes, you're right in that point, however Parabola is maintaining a good >>> relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard Stallman too and they >>> insist we use 'Arch GNU/Linux' instead. >>> >>> In some words, if we put in the Social Contract 'Arch Linux', we will >>> maintain a good relationship with Arch guys, if we put 'Arch GNU/Linux', >>> we will maintain a good relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard >>> Stallman. What should we use? good question and big problem. >> >> What about "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)"? > > +1 I agree with your suggestion because it solves this issue for the > Social Contract. +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From g4jc at openmailbox.org Thu Jun 9 23:54:14 2016 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 19:54:14 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <20160610090849.951d7da5bdba513d6ad998e0@openmailbox.org> <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 06/09/2016 07:46 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/09/2016 08:08 PM, Riley Baird wrote: >>> Yes, you're right in that point, however Parabola is maintaining a good >>> relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard Stallman too and they >>> insist we use 'Arch GNU/Linux' instead. >>> >>> In some words, if we put in the Social Contract 'Arch Linux', we will >>> maintain a good relationship with Arch guys, if we put 'Arch GNU/Linux', >>> we will maintain a good relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard >>> Stallman. What should we use? good question and big problem. >> What about "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)"? > +1 I agree with your suggestion because it solves this issue for the > Social Contract. > > If FSF and Arch Team is ok with calling it that, I think it is a good compromise. That way people will know it is the GNU/Linux distro named Arch and avoid the entire naming controversy to begin with. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 01:49:18 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 21:49:18 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87porp24pt.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 15:16:14 -0400, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/09/2016 02:26 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > > 2. Maybe they don't have moral authority to insist on it, but Arch > > developers insist on it anyway. And Parabola maintaining a good > > relationship with them is a good idea. > > Yes, you're right in that point, however Parabola is maintaining a good > relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard Stallman too and they > insist we use 'Arch GNU/Linux' instead. Honestly, I don't think that our good relationship with the FSF, GNU, or RMS is in any risk. > Even, i have plans to begin Parabola GNU+Hurd project based on Arch > GNU+Hurd after my conference about Parabola at FISL17. Otherwise, we > should clarify points about Free Culture Works in Parabola too and it > needs work too. > > Therefore our Social Contract needs more points to explains with details > about those points without contradictions. > > Otherwise, shouldn't all clauses in our Social Contract be revised under > a lawyer too? Maybe FSF or Fundatia Ceata (through Tiberiu) could help > us on it. The Social Contract isn't a legal document. It is a promise to the community of we are about. No need to get a lawyer involved with it. Not everything we do needs to be part of the Social Contract. The Social Contract only needs to include the things that as long as Parabola still exists, we won't stop doing. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 01:50:30 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 21:50:30 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87shwmzy6y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxi7w32.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87shwmzy6y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87oa7924nt.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 02:13:57 -0400, fauno wrote: > i'd also prefer we put our heads on a clear "how to become a parabola > hacker" document rather than clarifying the social contract. +1 -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 02:13:09 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:13:09 -0400 Subject: [Dev] libretools 20160609 release announcement Message-ID: <87mvmt23m2.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> I just released libretools 20160609 to [libre], and pushed the source tarball to . This is mostly a bugfix release to version 20160511, most importantly that it works with systemd version 230. Bug fixes from 20160511 to 20160609: * librechroot: - Set the machine-id of the chroot when creating it. This is important be cause systemd-nspawn v230 requires the machine-id to be set. (From Arch devtools) - If you give an invalid value to the -A flag, then it now gives a usefull error message. * librestage (/etc/libretools.conf): - The default value now automatically sets ARCHES based on /usr/share/pacman/defaults instead of having to manually configure it (armv7h was not in the old default). * xbs-abslibre: - fix some noisy errors (the server side of librerelease should be a lot quieter once we upgrade xbs on the server). * Makefile: - `make install` previously installed some extra markdown files as documentation that it shouldn't have. * libremakepkg - Set the chroot's "builduser" user's shell be /bin/bash instead of /usr/bin/nologin. Having it as nologin apparently broke some of package test suites (git, python). (From Arch devtools) To keep using old chroots with systemd version 230 or above, you may need to manually run systemd-machine-id-setup --root=/path/to/chroot When upgrading the libretools package, you also see a message informing you of this. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From crazytoon at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 02:44:02 2016 From: crazytoon at riseup.net (Crazytoon) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 23:44:02 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <20160610090849.951d7da5bdba513d6ad998e0@openmailbox.org> <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> Message-ID: <575A2972.2030707@riseup.net> El 09/06/16 a las 20:46, Andr? Silva escribi?: > On 06/09/2016 08:08 PM, Riley Baird wrote: >>> Yes, you're right in that point, however Parabola is maintaining a good >>> relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard Stallman too and they >>> insist we use 'Arch GNU/Linux' instead. >>> >>> In some words, if we put in the Social Contract 'Arch Linux', we will >>> maintain a good relationship with Arch guys, if we put 'Arch GNU/Linux', >>> we will maintain a good relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard >>> Stallman. What should we use? good question and big problem. >> >> What about "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)"? > > +1 I agree with your suggestion because it solves this issue for the > Social Contract. +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rms at gnu.org Fri Jun 10 02:55:26 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:55:26 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> (message from Luke Shumaker on Thu, 09 Jun 2016 01:26:34 -0400) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Justifiably and understandably, RMS (and thus the FSF) believes that > because GNU is being wronged by being left out of the name while > "Linux" is included, that it is right and just to similarly mutilate > Arch Linux' name. That the Arch developers have no moral authority to > insist otherwise, as they are guilty of the same act. The argument is sharper than that. We are not changing their chosen name in any old way. We are changing it to correct the insulting error in their choice. > I don't disagree with this, in the general case. However, there are > two factors that make me feel otherwise here: > 1. In this formal context, I believe that we should use formal name > given to it by its developers. In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From rms at gnu.org Fri Jun 10 02:55:28 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:55:28 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> (message from Luke Shumaker on Thu, 09 Jun 2016 01:26:34 -0400) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The scenario described by that part of the FSDG is if there were a > GNU/Linux operating system called "Foobar" or "Foobar Linux" that > contained non-free code, and a flavor of it that was 100% Free called > "GNU Foobar", "Foobar GNU", or "Foobar GNU/Linux". That would be a misleading way of naming the two variants. In this scenario, both versions of the system are GNU/Linux variants. One is an ethical GNU/Linux variant, like Parabola, and the other is an unethical variant, like Arch. However, both of them should be called GNU/Linux, not just Linux. When Ubuntu proposed to do something like this, the GNU Project objected to it. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From rms at gnu.org Fri Jun 10 02:58:32 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:58:32 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: (message from =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9?= Silva on Thu, 9 Jun 2016 16:16:14 -0300) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > In some words, if we put in the Social Contract 'Arch Linux', we will > maintain a good relationship with Arch guys, if we put 'Arch GNU/Linux', > we will maintain a good relationship with FSF, GNU project and Richard > Stallman. What should we use? good question and big problem. Rather than deciding based on placating the Arch project, or placating the GNU Project, I ask you to do what is right. That's why I've responded with arguments for why "Arch GNU/Linux" is right. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From rms at gnu.org Fri Jun 10 02:59:19 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:59:19 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> (message from =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9?= Silva on Thu, 9 Jun 2016 20:46:27 -0300) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <20160610090849.951d7da5bdba513d6ad998e0@openmailbox.org> <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > What about "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)"? It avoids endorsing the error, so it is ok. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 03:59:54 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 23:59:54 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:55:26 -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: > > 1. In this formal context, I believe that we should use formal name > > given to it by its developers. > > In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect > either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. > Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. Would you be happy (not feel disrespected) if we were to write the following? 4. **Parabola and Arch Linux**: We will produce an operating system that is a Free version of the GNU/Linux system "Arch Linux" and possibly other Arch-based systems. ... This would be/is the only place in the document where we refer to Arch. I believe that this acknowledges (without endorsing) the name that the Arch developers have chosen, while still honoring GNU, and emphasizing that Arch is a GNU/Linux system. Not endorsing them naming it that, but merely acknowledging the fact that this is what the Arch developers have named it. As for respecting GNU: We call our operating system Parabola GNU/Linux-libre. The only places in our documentation or operating system where we write "Linux" without "GNU/" (or sometimes "GNU+") in front is when referring specifically to just the kernel, or when writing "Arch Linux". And when we do refer to Arch, the _vast_ majority of the time we _don't_ call it "Arch Linux" (calling it just Arch), for the purpose of not disrespecting GNU. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From coadde at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 07:34:24 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 04:34:24 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > Would you be happy (not feel disrespected) if we were to write the > following? Why are you saying "we"? it is your opinion, not me. You can not speak on behalf of Parabola devs. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 07:36:45 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 04:36:45 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On 06/10/2016 04:34 AM, coadde wrote: > On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >> Would you be happy (not feel disrespected) if we were to write the >> following? > > Why are you saying "we"? it is your opinion, not me. You can not speak > on behalf of Parabola devs. +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From crazytoon at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 07:41:35 2016 From: crazytoon at riseup.net (Crazytoon) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 04:41:35 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <575A6F2F.8080406@riseup.net> El 10/06/16 a las 04:36, Andr? Silva escribi?: > On 06/10/2016 04:34 AM, coadde wrote: >> On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >>> Would you be happy (not feel disrespected) if we were to write the >>> following? >> >> Why are you saying "we"? it is your opinion, not me. You can not speak >> on behalf of Parabola devs. > > +1 +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 08:53:55 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 05:53:55 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:55:26 -0400, > Richard Stallman wrote: >> > 1. In this formal context, I believe that we should use formal name >> > given to it by its developers. >> >> In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect >> either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. >> Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. It is my propose to solve it: 4. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: We will develop an operating system that is a free version of the GNU/Linux system from "Arch" project and possibly other Arch-based systems. ... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 08:56:40 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 05:56:40 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <89628960-2ff7-f4de-3610-c87fcc36b373@riseup.net> On 06/10/2016 05:53 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >> On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:55:26 -0400, >> Richard Stallman wrote: >>> > 1. In this formal context, I believe that we should use formal name >>> > given to it by its developers. >>> >>> In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect >>> either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. >>> Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. > > It is my propose to solve it: > > 4. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: > We will develop an operating system that is a free > version of the GNU/Linux system from "Arch" project > and possibly other Arch-based systems. ... +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 09:25:28 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 06:25:28 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <43b176fb-8fb1-50a0-c552-deeec58b0eec@riseup.net> On 06/10/2016 05:53 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >> On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:55:26 -0400, >> Richard Stallman wrote: >>> > 1. In this formal context, I believe that we should use formal name >>> > given to it by its developers. >>> >>> In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect >>> either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. >>> Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. > > It is my propose to solve it: > > 4. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: > We will develop an operating system that is a free > version of the GNU/Linux system from "Arch" project > and possibly other Arch-based systems. ... s|propose|proposal| -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From crazytoon at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 10:36:48 2016 From: crazytoon at riseup.net (Crazytoon) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 07:36:48 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <89628960-2ff7-f4de-3610-c87fcc36b373@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <89628960-2ff7-f4de-3610-c87fcc36b373@riseup.net> Message-ID: <575A9840.1000100@riseup.net> El 10/06/16 a las 05:56, coadde escribi?: > On 06/10/2016 05:53 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >> On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >>> On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:55:26 -0400, >>> Richard Stallman wrote: >>>> > 1. In this formal context, I believe that we should use formal name >>>> > given to it by its developers. >>>> >>>> In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect >>>> either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. >>>> Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. >> >> It is my propose to solve it: >> >> 4. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: >> We will develop an operating system that is a free >> version of the GNU/Linux system from "Arch" project >> and possibly other Arch-based systems. ... > > +1 +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 13:39:36 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:39:36 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87fusl17tz.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 03:34:24 -0400, coadde wrote: > On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > > Would you be happy (not feel disrespected) if we were to write the > > following? > > Why are you saying "we"? it is your opinion, not me. You can not speak > on behalf of Parabola devs. "we" the people involved in the Social Contract. What opinion? I was asking if RMS thought it would be a suitable way to word item 4. If everyone liked it, /we/ would write it. It was in a hypothetical--there was no implied consensus yet. -- ~ Luke From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Fri Jun 10 15:34:10 2016 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 10:34:10 -0500 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <20160610090849.951d7da5bdba513d6ad998e0@openmailbox.org> <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> Message-ID: <1465572850.1013.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le jeu. 9 juin 2016 ? 18:54, Luke a ?crit : > On 06/09/2016 07:46 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: >> On 06/09/2016 08:08 PM, Riley Baird wrote: >>> What about "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)"? >> +1 I agree with your suggestion because it solves this issue for the >> Social Contract. >> > If FSF and Arch Team is ok with calling it that, I think it is a good > compromise. > That way people will know it is the GNU/Linux distro named Arch and > avoid the entire naming controversy to begin with. Indeed they use the term "GNU/Linux" to describe their work in a number of places, including the About page and the Forums listing. Sadly, they are not consistent about it and they drop the "GNU" part but not the "Linux" from the actual name of their distribution. That's the name that gets stuck in people's heads. I wouldn't worry about upsetting the Arch developers if Parabola trimmed down the official name of their distro (lots of people do) or if Parabola added the a mention to GNU. I would guess most of them usually pick their terms based on pragmatism or social inertia. They are not ethically invested and wouldn't give a lot of thought to our choices anyway. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicolasfloquet59 at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 15:42:16 2016 From: nicolasfloquet59 at gmail.com (Nicolas Floquet) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 17:42:16 +0200 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <43b176fb-8fb1-50a0-c552-deeec58b0eec@riseup.net> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Andr=C3=A9?= Silva"'s message of "Fri, 10 Jun 2016 06:25:28 -0300") References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <43b176fb-8fb1-50a0-c552-deeec58b0eec@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87bn39cap3.fsf@gmail.com> >> >> 4. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: >> We will develop an operating system that is a free >> version of the GNU/Linux system from "Arch" project >> and possibly other Arch-based systems. ... Hello. What about this proposal ? 4. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: We will develop an operating system that is a free version of the GNU/Linux system (mis)called "Arch Linux", hereinafter referred to as "Arch", and possibly other Arch-based systems. -- Nicolas Floquet www.pharmanerd.flqt.fr | www.logibaba.flqt.fr | www.librehealthcare.org 5, impasse du bois 61450 La Ferri?re-aux-?tangs, Normandie, France 02 50 75 70 07 | 06 32 93 03 51 XMPP : nflqt at jabber.fr PGP : C232 7205 EF72 F209 E331 601C EB71 F390 F6EB 52EA Mail r?dig? en b?po et sign? avec GPG. Et vive le Logiciel Libre ! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 19:02:31 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:02:31 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87shwmzy6y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxi7w32.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87shwmzy6y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87bn3827g8.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 02:13:57 -0400, fauno wrote: > > [1 ] > [1.1 ] > Luke Shumaker writes: > > >> 5) Democracy doesn't works. Adhocracy is the way for Parabola. > > > > That's a very loaded claim. Maybe it is true, but it certainly > > requires discussion before ammending the Social Contract to say that. > > > > Launching point for further discussion: there was good discussion > > about how to do governance when we were figuring out the Ceata > > agreement. > > but it would be good to provide links on discussions about governance > that happened on this list for further reference. I've been digging through the archives, and have come up with some links. Threads: - 2014-12-05: "*URGENT* Proposal to organise Parabola"[0] - 2014-12-17: "SFC"[1] - 2015-01-04 "Reflection on the Relationship of Money and Parabola"[2] Beware that the threads contain a little bit of talk about governance, and a lot of talk about communism and capitalism; and that it's a bit tough to weed through it. [0]: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002475.html [1]: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002601.html [2]: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-January/002673.html IMO, except for the one message from the "SFC" thread that I link to below[4], the 2015 discussion is probably the only one worth reading. In one of my messages in the 2015 discussion[3], I wrote: > I don't recall if it was Tiberiu wrote, or something from the SFC > [...], but I distinctly remember the mention that with the > bureaucratic duties of being such a representative, one might have > less time for technical contributions. Now having dug through the mail archives; I was referring to one of Tiberiu's messages[5] in the "SFC" discussion. [3]: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-January/002679.html [4]: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002617.html -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 22:09:10 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 18:09:10 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87bn3827g8.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxi7w32.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87shwmzy6y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bn3827g8.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <878tyc1yt5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:02:31 -0400, Luke Shumaker wrote: > Now having dug through the mail archives; I was referring to one of > Tiberiu's messages[5] in the "SFC" discussion. Oops, that should have been "messages[4]" > [4]: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002617.html From emulatorman at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 22:18:55 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:18:55 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <43b176fb-8fb1-50a0-c552-deeec58b0eec@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <43b176fb-8fb1-50a0-c552-deeec58b0eec@riseup.net> Message-ID: <4f9c083e-e2cc-93b0-9dca-ecafa0f48549@riseup.net> On 06/10/2016 06:25 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/10/2016 05:53 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >> On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >>> On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:55:26 -0400, >>> Richard Stallman wrote: >>>> > 1. In this formal context, I believe that we should use formal name >>>> > given to it by its developers. >>>> >>>> In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect >>>> either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. >>>> Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. >> >> It is my propose to solve it: >> >> 4. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: >> We will develop an operating system that is a free >> version of the GNU/Linux system from "Arch" project >> and possibly other Arch-based systems. ... > > s|propose|proposal| Even in my proposal we should use 'Arch GNU/Linux' or 'Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)' as the former Arch operating system name in Parabola project, not just our Social Contract. 'Arch Linux' is a misnomer, because the system is GNU/Linux and Nomenclature page [0] needs expansion to explain that we will use the correct name 'Arch GNU/Linux' or 'Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)' because we are giving this kind of respect to the GNU Project. In FSDG [1], specifically in "Please Avoid Repeating Propaganda and Confusion" says about list of words to avoid, in that list explains about Linux system as word to avoid [2] Parabola is a endorsed distro by FSF and it should avoid propaganda and confusion, even if Parabola talks about another distros (eg. Arch, Ubuntu, Suse, etc) inside the project. [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature#Arch [1]:https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html [2]:https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Linux -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 22:25:42 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:25:42 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <4f9c083e-e2cc-93b0-9dca-ecafa0f48549@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <43b176fb-8fb1-50a0-c552-deeec58b0eec@riseup.net> <4f9c083e-e2cc-93b0-9dca-ecafa0f48549@riseup.net> Message-ID: <9b65742f-2788-eb1e-1e18-31de82187dd2@riseup.net> On 06/10/2016 07:18 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/10/2016 06:25 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >> On 06/10/2016 05:53 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >>> On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >>>> On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 22:55:26 -0400, >>>> Richard Stallman wrote: >>>>> > 1. In this formal context, I believe that we should use formal name >>>>> > given to it by its developers. >>>>> >>>>> In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect >>>>> either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. >>>>> Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. >>> >>> It is my propose to solve it: >>> >>> 4. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: >>> We will develop an operating system that is a free >>> version of the GNU/Linux system from "Arch" project >>> and possibly other Arch-based systems. ... >> >> s|propose|proposal| > > Even in my proposal we should use 'Arch GNU/Linux' or 'Arch (the > GNU/Linux distribution)' as the former Arch operating system name in > Parabola project, not just our Social Contract. > > 'Arch Linux' is a misnomer, because the system is GNU/Linux and > Nomenclature page [0] needs expansion to explain that we will use the > correct name 'Arch GNU/Linux' or 'Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)' > because we are giving this kind of respect to the GNU Project. > > In FSDG [1], specifically in "Please Avoid Repeating Propaganda and > Confusion" says about list of words to avoid, in that list explains > about Linux system as word to avoid [2] > > Parabola is a endorsed distro by FSF and it should avoid propaganda and > confusion, even if Parabola talks about another distros (eg. Arch, > Ubuntu, Suse, etc) inside the project. > > [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature#Arch > [1]:https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html > [2]:https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Linux +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Sat Jun 11 01:05:46 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 01:05:46 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre-grsec] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160611010546.1750.87295@parabola.nu> invivo at sdf.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * linux-libre-grsec 4.5.4_gnu.201605131918-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-grsec/ * linux-libre-grsec 4.5.4_gnu.201605131918-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-grsec/ * linux-libre-grsec 4.5.4_gnu.201605131918-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-grsec/ * linux-libre-grsec-docs 4.5.4_gnu.201605131918-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-grsec-docs/ * linux-libre-grsec-docs 4.5.4_gnu.201605131918-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-grsec-docs/ * linux-libre-grsec-docs 4.5.4_gnu.201605131918-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-grsec-docs/ * linux-libre-grsec-headers 4.5.4_gnu.201605131918-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-grsec-headers/ * linux-libre-grsec-headers 4.5.4_gnu.201605131918-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-grsec-headers/ * linux-libre-grsec-headers 4.5.4_gnu.201605131918-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-grsec-headers/ The user provided the following additional text: The grsecurity patches now cover up to 4.5.13. From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Sat Jun 11 02:38:55 2016 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:38:55 -0500 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <20160610090849.951d7da5bdba513d6ad998e0@openmailbox.org> <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> Message-ID: <1465612735.1917.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le ven. 10 juin 2016 ? 20:18, concernedfossdev at teknik.io a ?crit : > Arch linux is steadily becoming Systemd/Linux rather than GNU/Linux > as systemd gradually, inevitably, rewrites all the various little > utilities in it's image. > > Why does it do this? Why so you can use them (and increasingly other > free software projects which now do things the "systemd way") through > Serialized Inter Process Communications, which is the very reason for > systemd's existance. What does this allow: essentially "linking" > GPL'd code by proprietary code because now it's just opening a > socket, not actually linking in the compiling sence. > > Please don't support Systemd/Linux. > The GNU/Linux we all used to know and used to have before the hostile > takeover of every single big distro by RedHat sock-puppets was much, > much, better. > > GNU/Linux is dying, being killed. You'll need to use the AGPL for > everything now soon if you want what you used to have under the GPL. What a jump! This is not the right thread to get your replies, maybe you want to start a new one. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rms at gnu.org Sat Jun 11 06:31:01 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 02:31:01 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1465526641.2004.36.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> (message from Adonay Felipe Nogueira on Thu, 09 Jun 2016 23:44:01 -0300) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465400584.23445.30.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> <72cd9fb0-c247-27cb-12e6-2104b16790ca@riseup.net> <1465526641.2004.36.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] For those who are interested, http://gnu.org/philosophy/copyright-vs-community.html gives my views about licenses of various kinds of works of authorship. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From rms at gnu.org Sat Jun 11 06:32:33 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 02:32:33 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87bn39cap3.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Nicolas Floquet on Fri, 10 Jun 2016 17:42:16 +0200) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <43b176fb-8fb1-50a0-c552-deeec58b0eec@riseup.net> <87bn39cap3.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > 4. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: > We will develop an operating system that is a free version of the > GNU/Linux system (mis)called "Arch Linux", hereinafter referred to > as "Arch", and possibly other Arch-based systems. I don't object to it, but it takes a rather harsh tone towards the Arch GNU/Linux project. I think you should correct their error but there is no need to be harsh about it. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sat Jun 11 17:07:57 2016 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 14:07:57 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxh1yo5.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87wplvwt5e.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> coadde writes: > [ Unknown signature status ] > On 06/10/2016 12:59 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >> Would you be happy (not feel disrespected) if we were to write the >> following? > > Why are you saying "we"? it is your opinion, not me. You can not speak > on behalf of Parabola devs. -1, i'm having serious trouble with the tone this discussion is going. no need to be harsh to each other. fwiw, i'm ok with "arch (the gnu/linux distro)" -- http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Sat Jun 11 22:11:39 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 19:11:39 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87bn3827g8.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxi7w32.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87shwmzy6y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bn3827g8.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <6ca902ec-a125-74bf-fe85-c3b5b4f2a206@riseup.net> On 06/07/2016 10:16 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > Then, a bit over a month ago, Emulatorman made a change, which I also > recall no discussion of. He changed "our community is democratic in > its essence" to "adhocratic in its essence". A one-word change, but > quite a significant one! I was thinking about it and think put "democratic" in clause "Parabola and its community" is ok for decisions in Parabola, however it needs an expansion explaining that our democracy is through consensus. I mean it because democracy could be interpreted by majority vote too and it isn't our case. Otherwise, i think would be good to talk about organization too, not just decisions in Parabola. In this case Parabola is adhocratic, and should be clarified in the Social Contract to avoid problems such as meritocracy and similar things that could generate in Parabola. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 12 01:05:23 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:05:23 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> Message-ID: <8737oj1ajw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> I've compiled list of past discussions we've had about Free Culture and Parabola. Not all of them are primarily about Free Culture. I hope it is useful. | Subject | First Message | |------------------------------------------------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------| | [RFC] Package freedom requirements clarification | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2012-November/000974.html | | [Votation] Package freedom guidelines, what to do next | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2012-December/001037.html | | [Voting] Package freedom guidelines draft two | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2013-January/001086.html | | [RFC] rewording the Social Contract | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2013-July/001554.html | | Confusion about game data | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-March/002834.html | | [donations] [due 2015-04-20] draft of agreement with ceata | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-April/002919.html | | Softwares and Libraries List ARM router | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003861.html | | Fwd: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] MAME | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003893.html | I'll be reading through them and drafting my own version of a Free Culture edit of the Contract. Hopefully I'll submit something tonight. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 12 02:53:58 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 22:53:58 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <8737oj1ajw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <8737oj1ajw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87ziqryv5l.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:05:23 -0400, Luke Shumaker wrote: > I've compiled list of past discussions we've had about Free Culture > and Parabola. Not all of them are primarily about Free Culture. I > hope it is useful. And now I've put together a reader of the relevant bits of all of those conversations. As much for my use as yours. A quick highlight: This is one of our current policies: https://wiki.parabola.nu/Package_freedom_verification_problems > | Subject | First Message | > |------------------------------------------------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------| > | [RFC] Package freedom requirements clarification | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2012-November/000974.html | mtjm wrote: > We have many free packages, many new ones added and some being found > nonfree and replaced. We also get questions why some packages are > included or not, some examples are nonfree game data (ND or NC) and > documentation being a nonfree cultural work (e.g. GNU manuals or POSIX > man pages; I'm probably the only user asking about these). > > I haven't found any specific policy clearly explaining what software (or > non-software work) is allowed and what isn't. The Social Contract [0] > is sometimes used to explain this, although it provides no answer other > than referring to the FSDG, while we have stricter unwritten > requirements on ND non-functional data. > > [0] https://wiki.parabolagnulinux.org/Parabola/GNU_Linux_Social_Contract He went on to propose a policy: > 2. Accept only free cultural works and GNU FDL-licensed documentation > > I.e. require all nontrivial non-license works to comply with [1] > or [2] unless they are correctly FDL-licensed documentation (so > e.g. a manual that consists only of invariant sections isn't > accepted). > > [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > [2] http://freedomdefined.org/Definition And asked the question: > Is there a better way to express our support for free culture > without including too many nonfree works? fauno responded to this: > discussing freedom related issues with upstream (without trolling) is > better. we had discussed this with encyclomundi when the syslog-ng guys > got angry because we blacklisted them iirc, and also guestone reported a > mislicensed art for a game that would go unnoticed if we had just > blacklisted it. fauno also commented on mtjm's entire policy proposal: > i think it's ok but the social contract should add the clarification in > favor of free cultural works too. Only 3.5 years later, and we're finally getting around to it :P The conversation then died down, leading us to another round of the same topic, a month later: > | [Votation] Package freedom guidelines, what to do next | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2012-December/001037.html | mtjm's new version of his policy proposal said: > == All nontrivial works in binary packages are free software, free > cultural works or GNU FDL-licensed documentation == > > All nontrivial non-license works should be > [https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html free software] or > [http://freedomdefined.org/Definition free cultural works] unless they > are correctly GNU FDL-licensed documentation ("correctly" implies that > e.g. a manual that consists only of invariant sections isn't accepted). mtjm also included as an issue to decide: > - the FDL exception > > Is there a better way to express our support for free culture without > including too many nonfree works? > > Are there non-FDL-licensed nonfree works that we want to include? > > Or maybe instead we should have an exception for GNU packages? GNU > Emacs includes many separate nonfree works of opinion. Most nonfree > FDL manuals that I know about are of GNU packages with GNU cover texts > making them nonfree. fauno respondend to this: > i can hear some troll calling us hyppocrites here :P > > i think fdl-licensed manuals and such can be problematic but it's not > the same as, for instance, cc-licensed works that are all or nothing. GuestOne responded: > I think that Parabola should be an authentic example of freedom so, > please, no exceptions. > > Always Free Software and Free Culture. mtjm posted this in response: > Details from #parabola: > > 21:54 < GuestOne> Are there non-FDL-licensed nonfree works that we want to include? > 21:54 < GuestOne> Or maybe instead we should have an exception for GNU packages? > 21:54 < GuestOne> NO! > 21:56 < GuestOne> please refuse all sort of non-free stuff in parabola, there are no reasons to include it, no exceptions! > 22:02 < GuestOne> parabola should be a true example of freedom > [...] > 22:12 < mtjm> it might be easy, Debian already has GNU packages with nonfree parts stripped > 22:12 < mtjm> (and many removed them upstream to be included in Debian) > 22:13 < mtjm> what about freely licensed nonfunctional data without sources? > 22:15 < fauno> like a cc-by-sa pdf book? > 22:16 < mtjm> or bitmaps of game art rendered using Blender > 22:16 < mtjm> it had no source in one game, so it isn't included in Debian > 22:16 < GuestOne> FSF is permissive if you talk about this, but i like the Debian way (always sources) > 22:17 < mtjm> if A is a binary made from unpublished source B, users can edit both, B is easier to edit, should we not include A? > 22:18 < mtjm> it's not clear in case of fonts, hyphenation patterns and other non-program useful data > 22:22 < GuestOne> if Free Culture is a base of Parabola we should respect it including just free stuff also for non functional data > 22:24 < mtjm> these examples are for functional data > 22:25 < mtjm> it might be harder to decide what is the source for nonfunctional data > 22:25 < GuestOne> this is my point of view: data should be free in any case > 22:26 < GuestOne> functional or non functional > 22:26 < GuestOne> i think the same thing if we talk about games > > My comments: > > - we should keep the "free software or free culture" rule to accept the > four clause BSD license > > - we should check for what packages Debian changes sources, we would do > it for many of them (e.g. GNU packages with invariant sections) > > - are FDL cover texts trivial enough to be accepted? I don't see there > as much culture as in the invariant essays included in some manuals, > while they are/were a more common issue. > > - we should keep an exception for license texts > > - the meaning of source is unclear for non-program works (like fonts or > drawings), many editable works in e.g. TeXLive were made from slightly > more editable forms that are not published Then the conversation died, again... > | [Voting] Package freedom guidelines draft two | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2013-January/001086.html | This version of the draft had 5 options (A, B.H, B.I, C.H, or C.I) for the relevant policy: > == License rules for source and binary packages == Option A: > All nontrivial non-license works should be > [https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html free software] or > [http://freedomdefined.org/Definition free cultural works] unless they > are correctly GNU FDL-licensed documentation ("correctly" implies that > e.g. a manual that consists only of invariant sections isn't accepted) > or GNU packages (with e.g. nonmodifiable works of opinion). Option B: (choose B.H or B.I) > All nontrivial non-license works should be > [https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html free software] or > [http://freedomdefined.org/Definition free cultural works]. > > Source packages might contain correctly GNU FDL-licensed documentation > ("correctly" implies that e.g. a manual that consists only of > invariant sections isn't accepted) or, if they are GNU packages, > nonmodifiable works of opinion which are not included in the binary > packages. Option B.H: > GNU FDL manuals with cover texts are not accepted in binary > packages. Option B.I: > GNU FDL manuals with cover texts but no invariant sections are > accepted in binary packages. Option C: (choose C.H or C.I) > All nontrivial non-license works should be > [https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html free software] or > [http://freedomdefined.org/Definition free cultural works]. Option C.H: > GNU FDL manuals with cover texts are not accepted. Option C.I: > GNU FDL manuals with cover texts but no invariant sections are > accepted. He also offered the commentary: > If we choose B or C, many relevant changes should be ported from Debian. > > My choice > ========= > > - A: It's more similar to what we already do. I think we were aware > of the GNU nonmodifiable works of opinion and cover texts issues and > had no plans to change this. > ? > - I: I think it's similar to accepting works requiring inclusion of a > license with an opinion text inside, this is accepted. I (lukeshu) weighed in: > It is ridiculous to have an exception for GNU packages. Given that > GNU is normally freely-license, we need to match whatever exceptions > they have. Therefore, we need exceptions for: > > * license works > * works of opinion > > And probably others. If ever we decide that we need to blacklist a > GNU package, that means that the policy that decided that is broken; > not that we need to give GNU an exception. > > That applies to any time we want to make an exception for a package. > Instead of making an exception, we need to fix the policy. > > ? > > Parabola has always *supported* and *preferred* free culture, but > has always allowed in nonfree cultural works. And quite frankly, > enforcing this is unfeasible. > > That said, I do believe that we should formalize our support of free > culture. > > > H. GNU FDL manuals with cover texts are not accepted in binary > > packages. > > > > I. GNU FDL manuals with cover texts but no invariant sections are > > accepted in binary packages. > > It is also ridiculous to include exceptions for a specific license. > What makes cover texts acceptable? Allow sections that do that, > without relying on a specific license. > > > H. GNU FDL manuals with cover texts are not accepted. > > > > I. GNU FDL manuals with cover texts but no invariant sections are > > accepted. > > This would require us to modify GNU packages, which is neither > feasable, nor something that I think policy should ask of us. mtjm responded: > > It is ridiculous to have an exception for GNU packages. Given that > > GNU is normally freely-license, we need to match whatever exceptions > > they have. Therefore, we need exceptions for: > > > > * license works > > * works of opinion > > We have an exception for licenses. These ND-like works remain: > > 0. separate works of opinion, e.g. RMS interviews, essays, sex jokes in > the Emacs distribution > 1. FDL cover texts > 2. FDL invariant sections > 3. copyright, license or attribution notices > > 0 and 3 are obvious to handle, I think 1 could be considered acceptable > attribution; 2 could have a separate exception based on how the FDL > defines these sections. > > > And probably others. If ever we decide that we need to blacklist a > > GNU package, that means that the policy that decided that is broken; > > not that we need to give GNU an exception. > > There were real licensing problems in GNU packages, e.g. Emacs sources > not including sources of generated parsers, the Sun RPC issue of glibc, > or Enscript not including the license of Adobe font metrics, these are > fixed quickly. > > > That applies to any time we want to make an exception for a package. > > Instead of making an exception, we need to fix the policy. > > It might result in much more complex policies allowing some worse > decisions. I don't know if it will be so in this case. > > > Parabola has always *supported* and *preferred* free culture, but > > has always allowed in nonfree cultural works. And quite frankly, > > enforcing this is unfeasible. > > > > That said, I do believe that we should formalize our support of free > > culture. > > How would we formalize it? The DFSG discourages forbidding distribution > of modified sources (i.e. only unmodified sources + patches), maybe this > should be stated similarly? > > >> H. GNU FDL manuals with cover texts are not accepted. > >> > >> I. GNU FDL manuals with cover texts but no invariant sections are > >> accepted. > > > > This would require us to modify GNU packages, which is neither > > feasable, nor something that I think policy should ask of us. > > Debian does this, maybe we could use their sources, it still won't be > easy. To which I followed up: > I'd also say that the FDL exceptions are only OK in some situations > (the situations RMS thinks are OK). I believe that this is "invariate > sections are OK only for secondary sections"; whatever that means. > > But we can simplify this: we only require editability for "technical > writing". ND Opinion? Fine. ND License? Fine. ND section of manual > explaining the GFDL? Fine. ND section of manual about the software? > Not fine. > > > > That said, I do believe that we should formalize our support of free > > > culture. > > > > How would we formalize it? The DFSG discourages forbidding distribution > > of modified sources (i.e. only unmodified sources + patches), maybe this > > should be stated similarly? > > I'm not sure; it's something we definately need to discuss. But my > contribution is that blacklisting non-free-culture goes too far. > Perhaps just writing down that we prefer it, and to use free-cultrue > when there is an option. > > > > This would require us to modify GNU packages, which is neither > > > feasable, nor something that I think policy should ask of us. > > > > Debian does this, maybe we could use their sources, it still won't be > > easy. > > Debian also has compile farms, and FAR more manpower than we do. To which mtjm responded: > > I'd also say that the FDL exceptions are only OK in some situations > > (the situations RMS thinks are OK). I believe that this is "invariate > > sections are OK only for secondary sections"; whatever that means. > > This is explicitly stated in the FDL, documents with invariant primary > sections aren't properly licensed. > > > These are/were bugs with the GNU packages, not places where our > > policies conflicted. > > Many other cases are bugs in the packages that are fixed in future > versions (e.g. chromium-bsu, supertuxkart, syslog-ng). I don't know if > we blacklisted a GNU package; gNewSense had enscript blacklisted for a > new contributor to fix it since it's easy. I don't believe anything ever came of these package freedom guideline policy discussions, though. > | [RFC] rewording the Social Contract | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2013-July/001554.html | Hey! The predecesor to this discussion! In my original post, I wrote: > Other changes I think we should consider: > > ? > * We should add a bit about the Free Culture movement, which we sort-of also > support, to formalize our stance on that. No one really followed up with that possibility, though. > | Confusion about game data | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-March/002834.html | Skipping a bunch of details, the game UQM was blacklisted because its assets were CC-BY-NC-SA. The discussion of Free Culture being enforced began with Fabio Pesari's message: > On 03/07/2015 10:30 AM, Micha? Mas?owski wrote: > >> - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-content > >> - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-music > >> - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-voice > > Licensed under CC-BY-NC-SA which is nonfree. > > [...] > > > > Both should be blacklisted in Parabola > > I agree that the nonfree data should not be included in Parabola but I > personally disagree about the blacklisting. > > There is a huge difference between Free Software and Free Culture: Free > Software is a social movement while Free Culture is a cultural movement. > But most importantly, art is free from many of the implications of > software: you will never be relying on art to monitor your heart rate, > for example (and if so, it means it's powered by either hardware or > software). > > Parabola is a free distro and as such, I agree that it should commit to > Freedom, 100%. But at the same time, I see no reason the *code* > shouldn't be distributed, if it's fully free. > > I'm saying this because someone committed to Free Software isn't > necessarily committed to Free Culture. From GNU.org itself: > > > We don't take the position that artistic or entertainment works must > > be free, but if you want to make one free, we recommend the Free Art > > License > > and again > > > Works of art, and works that state a point of view, are different > > issues; the GNU Project has no general stand about how they should be > > released, except that they should all be usable without nonfree > > software (in particular, without DRM) > > Games with fully free code fit that requirement, regardless of the > license under which their assets are released. > > For the record, I support Free Culture, but at the same time I think it > should be considered a completely separate issue from Free Software. mtjm responded: > > I agree that the nonfree data should not be included in Parabola but I > > personally disagree about the blacklisting. > > It's easier here: > https://gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data > (which we follow) forbids NC. The idea is that a business could sell > CDs with Parabola packages. > > > There is a huge difference between Free Software and Free Culture: Free > > Software is a social movement while Free Culture is a cultural movement. > > Why isn't it also a social movement, and why it's a separate movement? > (I don't believe it's possible to obsolete DRM without obsoleting > nonfree cultural works. Laws made to prevent users from modifying or > sharing cultural works restrict software: see DMCA.) > > > But most importantly, art is free from many of the implications of > > software: you will never be relying on art to monitor your heart rate, > > for example (and if so, it means it's powered by either hardware or > > software). > > And software will never use art, and it's obvious for us if a work will > have a practical purpose while copyright exists? (I don't believe I > could correctly predict what happens during next 130 years, and this is > assuming no copyright extensions.) > > > Parabola is a free distro and as such, I agree that it should commit to > > Freedom, 100%. But at the same time, I see no reason the *code* > > shouldn't be distributed, if it's fully free. > > It shouldn't be distributed if it cannot be used with only data that we > distribute. To which Fabio responded: > > It's easier here: > > https://gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data > > (which we follow) forbids NC. The idea is that a business could sell > > CDs with Parabola packages. > > It talks about data and never mentions code, so releasing just the code > would not go against guidelines, right? > > > Why isn't it also a social movement, and why it's a separate movement? > > (I don't believe it's possible to obsolete DRM without obsoleting > > nonfree cultural works. Laws made to prevent users from modifying or > > sharing cultural works restrict software: see DMCA.) > > The two are obviously related but fundamentally, the purpose of art is > different from that of software. > > In short, I can decide to live without art but I cannot do the same with > software (directly or indirectly), and this is a fact that will never > change. > > But fundamentally, I was just referring to the difference between > society and culture. > > In any case, there are more important, related issues of which the Free > Software community should take care. Hardware is a big problem, for > example, and so is freedom on the Internet. > > > And software will never use art, and it's obvious for us if a work will > > have a practical purpose while copyright exists? > > If we separate the art from the implementation, things are a bit easier. > Art cannot really be used (only consumed), but data can. With games, > it's hard to tell when one ends and the other starts, and this is part > of an old debate ("are games art?"). > > But one thing that is easy to discern is how the game is executed, and > that is its code. > > > It shouldn't be distributed if it cannot be used with only data that we > > distribute. > > If we extend this to other programs, it's a dangerous slippery slope. > > Those games can be used with any data that fits their specifications. > For example, the authors of Open Arena have used the Quake 3 source > along with their own free assets to make their version of Quake 3. Would > that have been possible without the Quake 3 source code? No, theirs > would have been just a clone (like FreeCiv). > > If we free software supporters start looking down on free software > because it does not fit some criteria external to the software itself, > we'll waste a lot of precious time fighting among ourselves. fauno then responded: > Fabio Pesari writes: > >> It's easier here: > >> https://gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data > >> (which we follow) forbids NC. The idea is that a business could sell > >> CDs with Parabola packages. > > > > It talks about data and never mentions code, so releasing just the code > > would not go against guidelines, right? > > i thought the wiki said it (or we lost it on one of the many > migrations...) but parabola is also commited to free culture, and that's > why we don't include artwork with non-commercial (also disallowed by the > fsdg) or non-derivative (allowed by the fsdg) terms. > > in cases like these, and it's always about game data, the solution is to > approach the developers and ask them for relicensing. we've barely done > that in five years. > > blacklisting is the only method we have so far... it sounds awful but > i'd better not make it a newspeak term. > > blacklisting is freedom! :P then Fabio again: > On 03/07/2015 03:41 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > > i thought the wiki said it (or we lost it on one of the many > > migrations...) but parabola is also commited to free culture, > > That's good to know, as I too support it. > > But I looked around and I could not find it in the Wiki, I only found > the rule in > https://wiki.parabola.nu/Package_freedom_verification_problems but if > Parabola is explicitly committed to Free Culture, I think it should be > in the homepage or in the social contract. > > > and that's > > why we don't include artwork with non-commercial (also disallowed by the > > fsdg) or non-derivative (allowed by the fsdg) terms. > > That's fine, but I never proposed that...I was talking about binaries > only, not data. Most distros already do it, to some extent - for > example, all those games which require proprietary assets (such as > Chocolate Doom and CorsixTH) are always distributed without any data. > > > in cases like these, and it's always about game data, the solution is to > > approach the developers and ask them for relicensing. we've barely done > > that in five years. > > > > blacklisting is the only method we have so far... it sounds awful but > > i'd better not make it a newspeak term. > > > > blacklisting is freedom! :P > > Over the years, I asked the developers of many such projects to liberate > their assets. > > ? > > Now, we can contact the developers, but it's very unlikely they will > change their minds. > > My hope is that some people will make free assets from scratch for those > games, but for games like UQM I'm afraid it will just not happen. People > are still selling Zork, a game written in 1977, in 2015; people get very > upset when you try to profit off their IP but can be kinder toward > non-commercial efforts. fauno again: > Fabio Pesari writes: > > On 03/07/2015 03:41 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > >> i thought the wiki said it (or we lost it on one of the many > >> migrations...) but parabola is also commited to free culture, > > > > That's good to know, as I too support it. > > > > But I looked around and I could not find it in the Wiki, I only found > > the rule in > > https://wiki.parabola.nu/Package_freedom_verification_problems but if > > Parabola is explicitly committed to Free Culture, I think it should be > > in the homepage or in the social contract. > > i thought it was on the social contract... I think this is a good sign that it *should* be in the Social Contract. fauno continues: > >> and that's why we don't include artwork with non-commercial (also > >> disallowed by the fsdg) or non-derivative (allowed by the fsdg) > >> terms. > > > > That's fine, but I never proposed that...I was talking about binaries > > only, not data. Most distros already do it, to some extent - for > > example, all those games which require proprietary assets (such as > > Chocolate Doom and CorsixTH) are always distributed without any data. > > so you would distribute a binary package that's only useful with artwork > not available on repos? that's like a *nudge nudge* to go use unfree > stuff outside them :P Fabio responded: > On 03/07/2015 06:58 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > > so you would distribute a binary package that's only useful with artwork > > not available on repos? that's like a *nudge nudge* to go use unfree > > stuff outside them :P > > Well, we distribute emulators and they are only useful with nonfree ROMs > not available on repos, aren't they? What about PDF readers? Web browsers? > > I personally would see it as a way to support free software and to > recognize it as such. Those programs are fully functional and free, > nothing stops users from providing their own assets (as long as the > required asset pipeline is also free, otherwise the game should be > blacklisted as a whole). > > > http://freedomdefined.org/Licenses/NC > > I just finished reading it. One interesting thing is that even they > could not find any conclusions for content users, aside from "ask the > authors to change the terms of the license". > > If I run a free game, I can read its code and be 100% sure it's not > backdoored. If its assets are nonfree, I can still be 100% sure that > it's not backdoored. Let's say my main reason to use free software is > security or privacy, how would free assets affect me? > > >From a content author perspective, I disagree with their conclusions. I > think the NC still offers a clear advantage: the end users are not > affected by it, only potential competitors. I think this article is > being overly optimistic regarding how people value their philosophical > integrity, especially when profit is concerned. I bet the developers of > games like UQM don't feel bad about themselves, and why should they? > They've done more for libre gaming than many other people. By releasing > a high-quality game, they made a lot of people realize that free gaming > does not necessarily mean Pac Man clones and text games and attracted > them to free software. > > And that's why I say that while similar in spirit, Free Software and > Free Culture are separate movements. Free culture is for the most part > content author culture while Free software is for the most part user > culture. > > Of course, a person which champions freedom in general will support > both, but in my opinion they do not hold the same importance. fauno again: > Fabio Pesari writes: > > On 03/07/2015 06:58 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > >> so you would distribute a binary package that's only useful with artwork > >> not available on repos? that's like a *nudge nudge* to go use unfree > >> stuff outside them :P > > > > Well, we distribute emulators and they are only useful with nonfree ROMs > > not available on repos, aren't they? > > sure, but do they need to be distributed alongside them? > > > What about PDF readers? Web browsers? > > i think we should always have freedom #0 in mind. these are free > software, we shouldn't mess with how people want to use them, while we > don't need to distribute unfree things for them to be useful. > > > And that's why I say that while similar in spirit, Free Software and > > Free Culture are separate movements. Free culture is for the most part > > content author culture while Free software is for the most part user > > culture. > > in that case i prefer dmytri kleiner's distinction between free software > and free culture :P > > http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/ Fabio responded: > On 03/07/2015 08:22 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > > sure, but do they need to be distributed alongside them? > > Neither do game assets, technically. But I get what you're saying: a > binary game package without data would be useless, and I agree. > > It would also be useless to keep arguing about this, since we are > clearly both Free Culture supporters and we both agree that Parabola > should not distribute the assets. I was just proposing a way to keep > distributing free software while leaving the nonfree data out, but > since you said that Parabola aligns itself with free culture, I think > the users will understand if some free software will be excluded in > order to comply with it. > > Still, I'd really like to see as many libre games in Parabola's repos as > possible. Kuba Kukielka then joined the conversation: > So what are we going to do now? Are we going to have a script that > downloads the data and installs it (like in Debian) or are we going to > continue distributing this? > > I would say that the best way of doing this is to distribute the game > itself and then have an option to download the data. (The user would > have to be warned that the images are non-free/under a non-commercial > license) > > To individuals it will not be a problem, the only thing they want to > do is play a game but for commercial purposes, or if you want to > modify and distribute it, then problems might happen. This should be > very clearly addressed to the user that is installing the package. > > Give them a choice, if someone is a really determined supporter of > Free Culture, they will know that the package has images/music that > does not have a free license and not install it. > > Unless Parabola will have rules on including non-free images/music > then I think this method should be applied. (I don't know how to write > the script though.) fauno responded: > > I would say that the best way of doing this is to distribute the game > > itself and then have an option to download the data. (The user would > > have to be warned that the images are non-free/under a non-commercial > > license) > > i think this is a non-option for us... And that wraps up the non-detailsy-technical part of that thread. > | [donations] [due 2015-04-20] draft of agreement with ceata | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-April/002919.html | Ceata sent fauno a draft of an agreement. It included: > 2. Parabola's Activities and Communication of All Donation-related Decisions > ? > b) Parabola Stays Free Software and Free Culture. > > Ceata and Parabola's Delegate agree that any and all software > and/or documentation/cultural works distributed by Parabola > will be distributed solely as Free Software and Free Culture, > respectively. Ceata retains the sole right to determine > whether Parabola's software and/or documentation/cultural > works constitute Free Software and Free Culture, respectively > (as defined herein). mtjm commented: > +1 with the following two comments: > > - 2(b) requires an exception for nonmodifiable license texts > > - do we have to remove the FDL-licensed manuals with invariant sections > (or get them relicensed)? Tiberiu (of Ceata) responded: > Thank you, Micha?; good observations! > > On 14.04.2015 09:31, Micha? Mas?owski wrote: > > - 2(b) requires an exception for nonmodifiable license texts > > I can add to 2(b) the note that the freedom condition don't apply to > license texts. > > > - do we have to remove the FDL-licensed manuals with invariant sections > > (or get them relicensed)? > > While Ceata acknowledges the issue with GNU FDL with invariant sections, > we consider it a minor issue to freedom of reusing documentation, so > rest assure that no matter if you blacklist them or not or convince the > authors to relicense them (the latter is preferable but takes time), > Ceata considers you are a free culture distro too. > > I can add a note about this too, if you consider it necessary. mtjm responded: > > While Ceata acknowledges the issue with GNU FDL with invariant sections, > > we consider it a minor issue to freedom of reusing documentation, so > > rest assure that no matter if you blacklist them or not or convince the > > authors to relicense them (the latter is preferable but takes time), > > Ceata considers you are a free culture distro too. > > Same here. Being a free culture distro is not as (seemingly) clear as > free software. I commented: > You guys have already addressed my concern about GFDL invariant > sections. I would appreciate a note being made about it in the text. > | Softwares and Libraries List ARM router | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003861.html | Emulatorman (Andr? Silva) wrote: > On 03/21/2016 06:12 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > > We suppose that adapt/accept _any_ application since it follows our > > Social Contract [0] through our first amendment where means that > > Parabola follows the GNU free system distribution guidelines [1] and > > doesn't include or recommend nonfree software or documentation and it > > does not provide any type of support for their installation or execution > > because we are fully free as in freedom distribution endorsed by FSF [2] > > Another point is that we does not include or recommend nonfree art > either, since our distro advocates the free culture too. I suggest > update our Social Contract adding this amendment. I guess that leads us to now. > | Fwd: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] MAME | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-March/003893.html | This thread is mostly about packaging free emulators whose primary purpose is to run non-free software in them. Here is one of Gaming4JC's messages. I'm not editing it down to just the Free Culture bits, because I think it would become a little incoherent: > I'd like to weigh in by mentioning there are still many uses for > emulators which people think should be removed. > > For example, there are still GPL Windows programs that ONLY work on > Windows. There is no reason WINE would need to be removed if the purpose > is to learn how to make fully free Windows programs. These programs can > one day run on a free OS, such as ReactOS. > http://osswin.sourceforge.net/ > > The same goes for DosBox and FreeDOS where there is still a small > community learning and improving DOS using fully free software. > > When it comes to console emulators, there is 95% of the time a homebrew > scene with GPL source code where users can learn to code and play fully > free games. ** There is no reason to remove these if the user is > learning and using free software. ** > > In the case of MAME, I agree that these do not exist YET. However, if > someone were to make a PoC it too should be included. There is no reason > someone could not develop fully free software for an arcade machine. In > addition to this, if users begin developing free software that runs on > MAME, it may be possible to one day flash a real Arcade Machine with > fully free software. Such unforeseen creative possibilities exist due to > the nature of free software. > > I also personally feel that archival backup of games should be allowed, > especially if the user owns the game on a console. It is actually more > ethical and generally more quality to play older games you own on a > fully free emulator than it is your own console which does not contain a > fully free distro. In the case of PSP and PSX, it is now possible to > play the games fully free without a non-free bios. > > Regarding Gnash, yes, there are fully free Flash authoring tools and > projects too: > http://www.flashmagazine.com/news/detail/open_source_and_free_development_tools_for_flash/ > > Before we start removing access to free software, we should consider the > unintended consequences. > > Sad scenarios that come to mind for users running fully free distros > with these new guidelines being suggested: > > - The free software developer who was in the process of freeing an > arcade machine was unable to do so because he was unaware of MAME. > > - The GNU/Linux kernel hacker never tried to running GNU/Linux on the > PS2, because he didn't have access to a fully free emulator to do his work. > > - Creativity and the free culture does not thrive because users did not > have access to the tools needed to do the job. > > In each scenario, it is the user that uses a tool for good or evil. We > should not be thought police on how they intend or do not intend to use > their software by removing access to the tools. I do agree that there > should be a warning that these programs may offer access to non-free > software, but it is up to the user on how they intend to act on that > statement. And that brings us to now! > -- > Happy hacking, > ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 12 03:05:16 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 23:05:16 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87ziqryv5l.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <8737oj1ajw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87ziqryv5l.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87wplvyumr.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 22:53:58 -0400, Luke Shumaker wrote: > > | [donations] [due 2015-04-20] draft of agreement with ceata | https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-April/002919.html | Oh, the final version of the agreement was signed on 2015-09-25. You can read it here: https://projects.parabola.nu/ceata-agreement.git/plain/Parabola+Ceata_Agreement.markdown?id=61726cc34df0f6bafe77f8a7a3ce3158103fd42b The relavant bits are: > a) Ceata's organizational mission is to liberate users from restrictions > in art and technology, with Free Software and Free Culture. "Free > Software" is software its users are free to use, redistribute, modify > and distribute modified versions. Similarly, "Free Culture" is any > cultural work the public is free to use, redistribute, modify and > distribute modified versions. > > b) Parabola's purpose is to develop and maintain a bleeding-edge 100% > Free Software and Free Culture distribution of the GNU operating system. > Parabola is recognized by the Free Software Foundation as a system > distribution that respects the Free System Distribution Guidelines and > is thus a 100% Free System Distribution. and > b) **Parabola stays Free Software and Free Culture.** Ceata and > Parabola's Delegate agree that any and all software and/or > documentation/cultural works distributed by Parabola will be > distributed solely as Free Software and Free Culture, respectively. > Acceptable exceptions to Free Culture works are non-modifiable > license texts and works under the GNU Free Documentation License with > invariant sections, as well as works of opinion. Ceata retains the > sole right to determine whether Parabola's software and/or > documentation/cultural works constitute Free Software and Free > Culture, respectively (as defined herein). -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 12 03:42:49 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 23:42:49 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Hi guys, I've written my own version of the Free Culture bits, and revised the draft that I submitted before. You can look at the changes I've made in git[0] (I recommend cloning it, and using GNU wdiff's `-d` flag to view changes. I wish cgit had a `wiff` mode). Some notes about meaning: - I've inserted the Free Culture bit as item 2, bumping the remaining items up. I absolutely believe that it should be its own item, and not be rolled into the Free Software item. - The the Free Culture item is based heavily on ?2(b) of our agreement with Ceata[2]. - Based on fauno's and my comments n this thread, I've revised the external links. - It says "democratic" in item 4. Marcio wants to change that to "adhocratic". I think this should be discussed, but defer to the original version's use of "democratic". Some notes about language: - I've normalized on saying "Free" instead of "libre". I'd tried normalizing on "libre"[1], but with adding a section on Free Culture, it read weird to mention the Free Software Movement, the Free system Distribution Guidelines, Free Culture, et c. while never saying "Free" except in the names of things. - I've fixed up the grammar and language. It now consistently speaks of Parabola in the first person, and uses the present tense (except for item 5). Before it varied, even within sentences. Item 5 is in the future tense because I couldn't make it sound good in the present tense. - To refer to Arch, I wrote ?GNU/Linux system "Arch Linux"?. I believe that this acknowledges the name that the Arch devs have chosen, but avoids supporting their mistake. [0]: https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/tree/Parabola_Social_Contract.md?h=proposals/lukeshu&id=89181428abb804ec94ed17b8732ff71540b01bdb [1]: https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/tree/Parabola_Social_Contract.md?h=proposals/lukeshu&id=4bff3eb91bbd883ae584401fd660855f16a1e055 [2]: https://projects.parabola.nu/ceata-agreement.git/tree/Parabola+Ceata_Agreement.markdown ---- Title: Parabola Social Contract The Parabola Social Contract is the commitment that we, the Parabola project, make to the Free Software community in general and our users in particular. It is because of this that our social contract will always follow the philosophy of Free knowledge. All amendments to this social contract must be faithful to the spirit of the [Free Software Movement](https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software). 1. **Parabola is Free Software**: Products of the Parabola project follow the [GNU Free System Distribution Guidelines](http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html). They do not include or recommend non-Free software or documentation and do not provide any type of support for the installation or execution of non-Free software. This includes: proprietary software, binary only firmware or binary blobs. 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works included in products of the Parabola project are [Free Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), with the exceptions of: non-modifiable license texts, works under the GNU Free Documentation License with invariant sections, and works of opinion. All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are Free Culture, with no exceptions. 3. **Parabola and other distributions**: Parabola's objective is to support the Free Software Movement, so we only need to compete against non-Free software; other Free Software projects are to be cooperated with, not competed with. Parabola strives to support other Free Software projects as best we can and any information from our project is available for anybody who needs it. That includes our packages and repositories. 4. **Parabola and its community**: Parabola's community is democratic in its essence, so the community is to be included whenever there is a need to make a decision. We encourage community participation in the development of the project. 5. **Parabola and Arch Linux**: Parabola will produce an operating system that is a Free version of the GNU/Linux system "[Arch Linux](http://www.archlinux.org/)" and possibly other Arch-based systems. We will provide repositories and installation media without any non-Free software. All Parabola operating systems will be backward compatible with the system they are based on, as to help liberate already working installations. We will respect the design philosophies of the systems ours are based on, to reduce friction from both developer and user viewpoints. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From g4jc at openmailbox.org Sun Jun 12 04:00:38 2016 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 00:00:38 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> On 06/11/2016 11:42 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > Hi guys, > > I've written my own version of the Free Culture bits, and revised the > draft that I submitted before. > > You can look at the changes I've made in git[0] (I recommend cloning > it, and using GNU wdiff's `-d` flag to view changes. I wish cgit had > a `wiff` mode). > > Some notes about meaning: > - I've inserted the Free Culture bit as item 2, bumping the remaining > items up. I absolutely believe that it should be its own item, and > not be rolled into the Free Software item. > - The the Free Culture item is based heavily on ?2(b) of our > agreement with Ceata[2]. > - Based on fauno's and my comments n this thread, I've revised the > external links. > - It says "democratic" in item 4. Marcio wants to change that to > "adhocratic". I think this should be discussed, but defer to the > original version's use of "democratic". > > Some notes about language: > - I've normalized on saying "Free" instead of "libre". I'd tried > normalizing on "libre"[1], but with adding a section on Free > Culture, it read weird to mention the Free Software Movement, the > Free system Distribution Guidelines, Free Culture, et c. while > never saying "Free" except in the names of things. > - I've fixed up the grammar and language. It now consistently speaks > of Parabola in the first person, and uses the present tense (except > for item 5). Before it varied, even within sentences. Item 5 is > in the future tense because I couldn't make it sound good in the > present tense. > - To refer to Arch, I wrote ?GNU/Linux system "Arch Linux"?. I > believe that this acknowledges the name that the Arch devs have > chosen, but avoids supporting their mistake. > > [0]: https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/tree/Parabola_Social_Contract.md?h=proposals/lukeshu&id=89181428abb804ec94ed17b8732ff71540b01bdb > [1]: https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/tree/Parabola_Social_Contract.md?h=proposals/lukeshu&id=4bff3eb91bbd883ae584401fd660855f16a1e055 > [2]: https://projects.parabola.nu/ceata-agreement.git/tree/Parabola+Ceata_Agreement.markdown > > ---- > Title: Parabola Social Contract > > The Parabola Social Contract is the commitment that we, the Parabola > project, make to the Free Software community in general and our users in > particular. It is because of this that our social contract will always > follow the philosophy of Free knowledge. All amendments to this social > contract must be faithful to the spirit of the [Free Software > Movement](https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software). > > 1. **Parabola is Free Software**: Products of the Parabola project > follow the [GNU Free System Distribution > Guidelines](http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html). > They do not include or recommend non-Free software or documentation > and do not provide any type of support for the installation or > execution of non-Free software. This includes: proprietary software, > binary only firmware or binary blobs. > 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works > included in products of the Parabola project are [Free > Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), with the exceptions > of: non-modifiable license texts, works under the GNU Free > Documentation License with invariant sections, and works of opinion. > All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are > Free Culture, with no exceptions. > 3. **Parabola and other distributions**: Parabola's objective is to > support the Free Software Movement, so we only need to compete > against non-Free software; other Free Software projects are to be > cooperated with, not competed with. Parabola strives to support > other Free Software projects as best we can and any information from > our project is available for anybody who needs it. That includes our > packages and repositories. > 4. **Parabola and its community**: Parabola's community is democratic > in its essence, so the community is to be included whenever there is > a need to make a decision. We encourage community participation in > the development of the project. > 5. **Parabola and Arch Linux**: Parabola will produce an operating > system that is a Free version of the GNU/Linux system "[Arch > Linux](http://www.archlinux.org/)" and possibly other > Arch-based systems. We will provide repositories and installation > media without any non-Free software. All Parabola operating systems > will be backward compatible with the system they are based on, as to > help liberate already working installations. We will respect the > design philosophies of the systems ours are based on, to reduce > friction from both developer and user viewpoints. > Overall the new layout you proposed seems reasonable, however I'm pretty sure that consensus was to not call it "Arch Linux" at all. This is in order to remain in good standing with the GNU project. Per a previous e-mail from RMS: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. ----- and... ----- > > What about "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)"? It avoids endorsing the error, so it is ok. ---- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So #5 would have to look like this: 5. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: Parabola will produce an operating system that is a Free version of the GNU/Linux system "[Arch](http://www.archlinux.org/)" and possibly other Arch-based systems. We will provide repositories and installation media without any non-Free software. All Parabola operating systems will be backward compatible with the system they are based on, as to help liberate already working installations. We will respect the design philosophies of the systems ours are based on, to reduce friction from both developer and user viewpoints. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I also agree with part of a previous e-mail you sent concerning free software... let's not "waste a lot of precious time fighting among ourselves." We need to get the server migrated and prepare for FISL17 instead. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 12 04:54:21 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 00:54:21 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 00:00:38 -0400, Luke wrote: > On 06/11/2016 11:42 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > > 5. **Parabola and Arch Linux**: Parabola will produce an operating > > system that is a Free version of the GNU/Linux system "[Arch > > Linux](http://www.archlinux.org/)" and possibly other > > Arch-based systems. We will provide repositories and installation > > media without any non-Free software. All Parabola operating systems > > will be backward compatible with the system they are based on, as to > > help liberate already working installations. We will respect the > > design philosophies of the systems ours are based on, to reduce > > friction from both developer and user viewpoints. > > Overall the new layout you proposed seems reasonable, however I'm > pretty sure that consensus was to not call it "Arch Linux" at all. > This is in order to remain in good standing with the GNU project. > > Per a previous e-mail from RMS: > > > In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect > > either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. > > Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. I replied to RMS's email with essentially the wording that I included in this version. Unfortunately, he didn't reply directly to mine.. > and... > > > > What about "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)"? > > > > It avoids endorsing the error, so it is ok. I think that the version I submitted also avoids endorsing the error. Perhaps change the heading to just "Arch" and leave "Arch Linux" for in the body? > So #5 would have to look like this: > > > 5. **Parabola and Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)**: Parabola will produce an operating > > system that is a Free version of the GNU/Linux system "[Arch](http://www.archlinux.org/)" and possibly other > > Arch-based systems. We will provide repositories and installation > > media without any non-Free software. All Parabola operating systems > > will be backward compatible with the system they are based on, as to > > help liberate already working installations. We will respect the > > design philosophies of the systems ours are based on, to reduce > > friction from both developer and user viewpoints. > > I also agree with part of a previous e-mail you sent concerning free > software... let's not "waste a lot of precious time fighting among > ourselves." We need to get the server migrated and prepare for FISL17 > instead. :-) -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From rms at gnu.org Sun Jun 12 06:57:56 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 02:57:56 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: (concernedfossdev@teknik.io) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87k2hz6igl.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <20160610090849.951d7da5bdba513d6ad998e0@openmailbox.org> <81bb6349-f948-ffad-3898-27f626bda56b@riseup.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Arch linux is steadily becoming Systemd/Linux rather than > GNU/Linux Please do not exaggerate. Systemd is a small part of the GNU/Linux system. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From flodiaz81 at riseup.net Sun Jun 12 08:13:13 2016 From: flodiaz81 at riseup.net (Florencia Diaz) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 05:13:13 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> El 12/06/16 a las 01:54, lukeshu at sbcglobal.net escribi?: > On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 00:00:38 -0400, > Luke wrote: >> On 06/11/2016 11:42 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >>> 5. **Parabola and Arch Linux**: Parabola will produce an operating >>> system that is a Free version of the GNU/Linux system "[Arch >>> Linux](http://www.archlinux.org/)" and possibly other >>> Arch-based systems. We will provide repositories and installation >>> media without any non-Free software. All Parabola operating systems >>> will be backward compatible with the system they are based on, as to >>> help liberate already working installations. We will respect the >>> design philosophies of the systems ours are based on, to reduce >>> friction from both developer and user viewpoints. >> >> Overall the new layout you proposed seems reasonable, however I'm >> pretty sure that consensus was to not call it "Arch Linux" at all. >> This is in order to remain in good standing with the GNU project. >> >> Per a previous e-mail from RMS: >> >>> In this case, you have to choose to give this kind of respect >>> either to the developers of Arch GNU/Linux or to the GNU Project. >>> Respecting the former means joining them in disrespecting us. > > I replied to RMS's email with essentially the wording that I included > in this version. Unfortunately, he didn't reply directly to mine.. > >> and... >> >>>> What about "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)"? >>> >>> It avoids endorsing the error, so it is ok. > > I think that the version I submitted also avoids endorsing the error. > Perhaps change the heading to just "Arch" and leave "Arch Linux" for > in the body? We are deciding by consensus that is good call it "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)", not "Arch Linux". Even Richard Stallman is agree about it, please no more fighting between us, we are part from the same distribution and community. Greetings: Florencia. From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sun Jun 12 21:43:26 2016 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:43:26 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Florencia Diaz writes: > We are deciding by consensus that is good call it "Arch (the GNU/Linux > distribution)", not "Arch Linux". Even Richard Stallman is agree about > it, please no more fighting between us, we are part from the same > distribution and community. +1 to the latest version [0] with arch called "arch (the gnu/linux distribution)" which everyone seems to agree with [0]: https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/tree/Parabola_Social_Contract.md?h=proposals/lukeshu&id=89181428abb804ec94ed17b8732ff71540b01bdb -- :> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sun Jun 12 21:40:38 2016 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:40:38 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <6ca902ec-a125-74bf-fe85-c3b5b4f2a206@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87inxi7w32.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87shwmzy6y.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bn3827g8.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <6ca902ec-a125-74bf-fe85-c3b5b4f2a206@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87d1nmw0fd.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Andr? Silva writes: > [ Unknown signature status ] > On 06/07/2016 10:16 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >> Then, a bit over a month ago, Emulatorman made a change, which I also >> recall no discussion of. He changed "our community is democratic in >> its essence" to "adhocratic in its essence". A one-word change, but >> quite a significant one! > > I was thinking about it and think put "democratic" in clause "Parabola > and its community" is ok for decisions in Parabola, however it needs an > expansion explaining that our democracy is through consensus. I mean it > because democracy could be interpreted by majority vote too and it isn't > our case. > > Otherwise, i think would be good to talk about organization too, not > just decisions in Parabola. In this case Parabola is adhocratic, and > should be clarified in the Social Contract to avoid problems such as > meritocracy and similar things that could generate in Parabola. +1 i agree! -- :> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Sun Jun 12 23:01:41 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:01:41 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> Message-ID: <2ebcf222-6b2c-8ff5-5cb6-a0668c4bf9b5@riseup.net> On 06/12/2016 05:13 AM, Florencia Diaz wrote: > El 12/06/16 a las 01:54, lukeshu at sbcglobal.net escribi?: >> I think that the version I submitted also avoids endorsing the error. >> Perhaps change the heading to just "Arch" and leave "Arch Linux" for >> in the body? > > We are deciding by consensus that is good call it "Arch (the GNU/Linux > distribution)", not "Arch Linux". Even Richard Stallman is agree about > it, please no more fighting between us, we are part from the same > distribution and community. > > Greetings: Florencia. Lukeshu, you are a cool and intelligent guy, also i'm one of your fans in developments inside Parabola, mainly libretools that is one of most awesome Parabola packages developed by you. :) However we have different point of views to call the former operating system name to the Arch project, i would call it "Arch GNU/Linux" and you "Arch Linux", but the community is deciding through consensus call it "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)", please consider their opinion too, it will solve the problem for our Social Contract and nomenclatures. Otherwise, if i offended you with my opinions in this consensus, please sorry about it. Btw, let's we as Parabola devs joins our forces to prepare our distro (Parabola) for FISL17, it will be our first official conference and stand in this important event, let's liberate the cyberspace and society with our Free as in freedom distro! \o/ Thanks for all your development and help in Parabola and happy hacking! Greetings, Andr?. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Sun Jun 12 23:21:02 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:21:02 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> On 06/12/2016 06:43 PM, fauno wrote: > Florencia Diaz writes: >> We are deciding by consensus that is good call it "Arch (the GNU/Linux >> distribution)", not "Arch Linux". Even Richard Stallman is agree about >> it, please no more fighting between us, we are part from the same >> distribution and community. > > +1 to the latest version [0] with arch called "arch (the gnu/linux > distribution)" which everyone seems to agree with > > > [0]: https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/tree/Parabola_Social_Contract.md?h=proposals/lukeshu&id=89181428abb804ec94ed17b8732ff71540b01bdb +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Sun Jun 12 23:42:59 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:42:59 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <2ebcf222-6b2c-8ff5-5cb6-a0668c4bf9b5@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <2ebcf222-6b2c-8ff5-5cb6-a0668c4bf9b5@riseup.net> Message-ID: <1c4b3457-0c9b-9fb8-dae0-5c5a409d64cf@riseup.net> On 06/12/2016 08:01 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/12/2016 05:13 AM, Florencia Diaz wrote: >> El 12/06/16 a las 01:54, lukeshu at sbcglobal.net escribi?: >>> I think that the version I submitted also avoids endorsing the error. >>> Perhaps change the heading to just "Arch" and leave "Arch Linux" for >>> in the body? >> >> We are deciding by consensus that is good call it "Arch (the GNU/Linux >> distribution)", not "Arch Linux". Even Richard Stallman is agree about >> it, please no more fighting between us, we are part from the same >> distribution and community. >> >> Greetings: Florencia. > > Lukeshu, you are a cool and intelligent guy, also i'm one of your fans > in developments inside Parabola, mainly libretools that is one of most > awesome Parabola packages developed by you. :) > > However we have different point of views to call the former operating > system name to the Arch project, i would call it "Arch GNU/Linux" and > you "Arch Linux", but the community is deciding through consensus call > it "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)", please consider their opinion > too, it will solve the problem for our Social Contract and nomenclatures. > > Otherwise, if i offended you with my opinions in this consensus, please > sorry about it. > > Btw, let's we as Parabola devs joins our forces to prepare our distro > (Parabola) for FISL17, it will be our first official conference and > stand in this important event, let's liberate the cyberspace and society > with our Free as in freedom distro! \o/ > > Thanks for all your development and help in Parabola and happy hacking! > > Greetings, > Andr?. +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Sun Jun 12 23:44:20 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:44:20 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <76e5c090-8470-e5f4-cb9e-09c96117dfcc@riseup.net> On 06/12/2016 06:43 PM, fauno wrote: > Florencia Diaz writes: >> We are deciding by consensus that is good call it "Arch (the GNU/Linux >> distribution)", not "Arch Linux". Even Richard Stallman is agree about >> it, please no more fighting between us, we are part from the same >> distribution and community. > > +1 to the latest version [0] with arch called "arch (the gnu/linux > distribution)" which everyone seems to agree with > > > [0]: https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/tree/Parabola_Social_Contract.md?h=proposals/lukeshu&id=89181428abb804ec94ed17b8732ff71540b01bdb +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 13 03:21:44 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:21:44 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 19:21:02 -0400, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/12/2016 06:43 PM, fauno wrote: > > Florencia Diaz writes: > >> We are deciding by consensus that is good call it "Arch (the GNU/Linux > >> distribution)", not "Arch Linux". Even Richard Stallman is agree about > >> it, please no more fighting between us, we are part from the same > >> distribution and community. > > > > +1 to the latest version [0] with arch called "arch (the gnu/linux > > distribution)" which everyone seems to agree with > > > > > > [0]: https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/tree/Parabola_Social_Contract.md?h=proposals/lukeshu&id=89181428abb804ec94ed17b8732ff71540b01bdb > > +1 Fine. https://projects.parabola.nu/~lukeshu/social-contract.git/tree/Parabola_Social_Contract.md?h=proposals/lukeshu&id=1e4484a83d30ecbfa8592b336a7de27028425bcf I put just "Arch" in the heading (because otherwise the heading was just way too long, IMO) and "Arch (the GNU/Linux distrubtion)" in the body. I'm fine with this version passing. Possible other changes: - The "democratic" thing. - I'm actually not super happy with the way I worded the Free Culture item. The tone is different than the rest of the document. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From rms at gnu.org Mon Jun 13 20:33:48 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 16:33:48 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> (message from Luke Shumaker on Sat, 11 Jun 2016 23:42:49 -0400) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The invariant sections in manuals under the GFDL are not part of the documentation. They are works of opinion. That's what makes them ethically legitimate, in our view. The documenation is free, but has to be accompanied with the statement of political views that support the free software movement. It is self-defeating for an activity of the free software movement to adopt rules against making sure its views reach the public. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From emulatorman at riseup.net Mon Jun 13 21:23:24 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 18:23:24 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <0a13f707-34f9-5207-ca50-16b681d105a0@riseup.net> On 06/13/2016 12:21 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > I put just "Arch" in the heading (because otherwise the heading was > just way too long, IMO) and "Arch (the GNU/Linux distrubtion)" > in the body. +1 > Possible other changes: > > - The "democratic" thing. I think it needs expansion because there a lot of democracy variants [0]. I told about it in the previous emails [1] and i mean it because we make decisions through consensus democracy [2][3], as opposed to another democratic systems where minority opinions can potentially be ignored by vote-winning majorities [4] or an authoritarian democracy [5]. So we could specific about our democracy variant that is consensus democracy in our clause (eg. "Parabola's community is democratic in its essence ([consensus democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy))" or "Parabola's community is democratic in its essence through [consensus democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy)." Otherwise, we could add another expansion in this clause or create another one about our organization. Parabola organization is adhocratic, as opposite fashion to a bureaucracy [6] and meritocracy [7]. An pessimal example of meritocracy could be the following one: "Emulatorman is maintaining all kernels for Parabola, lukeshu is developing libretools for Parabola devs and fauno is being our Parabola delegate, therefore they are the bosses here and organize the Parabola project" It is not good for Parabola and Contract Social should be specific about their adhocratic organization to clarify that all Parabola users and community are important in the Parabola project organization. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Variants [1] https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-June/004119.html [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Consensus_democracy [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_democracy [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Mon Jun 13 21:27:21 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 18:27:21 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <0a13f707-34f9-5207-ca50-16b681d105a0@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0a13f707-34f9-5207-ca50-16b681d105a0@riseup.net> Message-ID: <830225cc-99b4-2dff-0b4c-2b454a7473fa@riseup.net> On 06/13/2016 06:23 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/13/2016 12:21 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >> I put just "Arch" in the heading (because otherwise the heading was >> just way too long, IMO) and "Arch (the GNU/Linux distrubtion)" >> in the body. > > +1 > >> Possible other changes: >> >> - The "democratic" thing. > > I think it needs expansion because there a lot of democracy variants > [0]. I told about it in the previous emails [1] and i mean it because we > make decisions through consensus democracy [2][3], as opposed to another > democratic systems where minority opinions can potentially be ignored by > vote-winning majorities [4] or an authoritarian democracy [5]. > > So we could specific about our democracy variant that is consensus > democracy in our clause (eg. "Parabola's community is democratic in its > essence ([consensus > democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy))" or > "Parabola's community is democratic in its essence through [consensus > democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy)." > > Otherwise, we could add another expansion in this clause or create > another one about our organization. Parabola organization is adhocratic, > as opposite fashion to a bureaucracy [6] and meritocracy [7]. > > An pessimal example of meritocracy could be the following one: > "Emulatorman is maintaining all kernels for Parabola, lukeshu is > developing libretools for Parabola devs and fauno is being our Parabola > delegate, therefore they are the bosses here and organize the Parabola > project" It is not good for Parabola and Contract Social should be > specific about their adhocratic organization to clarify that all > Parabola users and community are important in the Parabola project > organization. > > [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Variants > [1] https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-June/004119.html > [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Consensus_democracy > [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy > [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority > [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_democracy > [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy > [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy > For Adhocracy references, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhocracy for further details. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Mon Jun 13 21:40:44 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 18:40:44 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <2ba2d8f6-78a1-797e-8725-b2525212c8c1@riseup.net> On 06/13/2016 05:33 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > The invariant sections in manuals under the GFDL are not part > of the documentation. They are works of opinion. That's what > makes them ethically legitimate, in our view. The documenation is > free, but has to be accompanied with the statement of political > views that support the free software movement. > > It is self-defeating for an activity of the free software movement > to adopt rules against making sure its views reach the public. I think you mean about it: "with the exceptions of: non-modifiable license texts, works under the GNU Free Documentation License with invariant sections, and works of opinion." Maybe the below example could solve it, eg: with the exceptions of: works of opinion licenses like CC by-ND.[0][1] [0]:http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#FreeDocumentationLicenses [1]:http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Mon Jun 13 22:22:10 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 19:22:10 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <2ba2d8f6-78a1-797e-8725-b2525212c8c1@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <2ba2d8f6-78a1-797e-8725-b2525212c8c1@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5c71f9dc-21d1-51a0-8673-f7fb1ddd7358@riseup.net> On 06/13/2016 06:40 PM, coadde wrote: > On 06/13/2016 05:33 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: >> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] >> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] >> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >> >> The invariant sections in manuals under the GFDL are not part >> of the documentation. They are works of opinion. That's what >> makes them ethically legitimate, in our view. The documenation is >> free, but has to be accompanied with the statement of political >> views that support the free software movement. >> >> It is self-defeating for an activity of the free software movement >> to adopt rules against making sure its views reach the public. > > I think you mean about it: > > "with the exceptions of: non-modifiable license texts, works under the > GNU Free Documentation License with invariant sections, and works of > opinion." > > Maybe the below example could solve it, eg: > > with the exceptions of: works of opinion licenses like CC by-ND.[0][1] > > [0]:http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#FreeDocumentationLicenses > [1]:http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses There are some references about free culture licenses that could be useful for us: http://freedomdefined.org/Licenses http://freeculture.org/about/license -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Mon Jun 13 22:43:45 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 19:43:45 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Fwd: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <575F338D.3030807@riseup.net> References: <575F338D.3030807@riseup.net> Message-ID: <3fb8aa87-3bd5-429c-26e7-575b9cc74e9d@riseup.net> fyi -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 18:28:29 -0400 From: Julie Marchant Reply-To: Workgroup for fully free GNU/Linux distributions To: gnu-linux-libre at nongnu.org On 06/13/2016 04:33 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > The invariant sections in manuals under the GFDL are not part > of the documentation. They are works of opinion. That's what > makes them ethically legitimate, in our view. The documenation is > free, but has to be accompanied with the statement of political > views that support the free software movement. The only possible way I can imagine this coming up is from reading the part in the Parabola Social contract about libre culture. You do realize that libre culture has nothing to do with your views, right? Any work under the GNU FDL with invariant sections, and that includes all of your manuals, is non-libre culture. That it is a "work of opinion" is irrelevant. It's well-known that you are in favor of using copyright to restrict your "works of opinion" or force people to distribute these works with your manuals, but many people do not agree with you on this. To be perfectly frank, I think it is unethical use copyright to prohibit people from exercising the four freedoms on any work, regardless of that work's purpose, because these freedoms are a human right. And part of that is if I distribute the documentation you wrote, I should not be forced to distribute a different work about your personal beliefs which I may or may not agree with. Perhaps, if you wanted to distribute a GFDL-licensed manual that included some neo-Nazi propaganda as an invariant section, you would find sympathy for those of us who oppose invariant sections. -- Julie Marchant https://onpon4.github.io Protect your emails with GnuPG: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Tue Jun 14 18:05:48 2016 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 13:05:48 -0500 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] Fwd: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1465912702.8698.64.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> References: <575F338D.3030807@riseup.net> <3fb8aa87-3bd5-429c-26e7-575b9cc74e9d@riseup.net> <1465912702.8698.64.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> Message-ID: <1465927548.1503.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le mar. 14 juin 2016 ? 8:58, Adonay Felipe Nogueira a ?crit : > Unless I'm really blind right know (which happens some times), I can't > see how the requirements of the Definition of Free Cultural Works are > present in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Julie never mentioned the UDHR. There's a difference between what each of us thinks human rights should be and what the living document put forth by the UN says. I for one am dissatisfied with articles 16.3, 22, 23.3, 25, 26 (especially 26.3); the wording of 11.1; and finally 27.2, which looks like a vague loophole for further "intellectual property" lobbying and stands in opposition to 27.1 (the one about sharing you mentioned) and the goals of both the Free Software and Free Culture movements. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coadde at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 02:09:36 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 23:09:36 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: I would give you my proposal based on opinions made by all users in these days here, what do you think guys? The Parabola Social Contract is the commitment that we, the Parabola project, make to the Free Software community in general and our users in particular. It is because of this that our social contract will always follow the philosophy of Free knowledge. All amendments to this social contract must be faithful to the spirit of the [Free Software Movement](https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software). 1. **Parabola is Free Software**: Products of the Parabola project follow the [GNU Free System Distribution Guidelines (http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html). They do not include or recommend non-Free software or documentation and do not provide any type of support for the installation or execution of non-Free software. This includes: proprietary software, binary only firmware or binary blobs. 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works included in products of the Parabola project are [Free Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), with the exceptions of: [licenses for works stating a viewpoint](http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses) All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are Free Culture, with no exceptions. 3. **Parabola and other distributions**: Parabola's objective is to support the Free Software Movement, so we only need to compete against non-Free software; other Free Software projects are to be cooperated with, not competed with. Parabola strives to support other Free Software projects as best we can and any information from our project is available for anybody who needs it. That includes our packages and repositories. 4. **Parabola and its community**: Parabola's community is democratic in its essence through [consensus democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy), so the community is to be included whenever there is a need to make a decision. We encourage community participation in the development of the project. 5. **Parabola and Arch**: Parabola will produce an operating system that is a Free version of [Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)](http://www.archlinux.org/) and possibly other Arch-based systems. We will provide repositories and installation media without any non-Free software. All Parabola operating systems will be backward compatible with the system they are based on, as to help liberate already working installations. We will respect the design philosophies of the systems ours are based on, to reduce friction from both developer and user viewpoints. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ingegnue at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 02:20:15 2016 From: ingegnue at riseup.net (IngeGNUe) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:20:15 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <78b2e66e-dbff-497a-2700-0155b91950c0@riseup.net> On 06/14/16 22:09, coadde wrote: > The Parabola Social Contract is the commitment that we, the Parabola > project, make to the Free Software community in general and our users in > particular. > It is because of this that our social contract will always follow the > philosophy of Free knowledge. > All amendments to this social contract must be faithful to the spirit of > the [Free Software > Movement](https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software). > > 1. **Parabola is Free Software**: Products of the Parabola project > follow the [GNU Free System Distribution Guidelines > (http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html). > They do not include or recommend non-Free software or documentation > and do not provide any type of support for the installation or > execution of non-Free software. > This includes: proprietary software, binary only firmware or > binary blobs. > 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works > included in products of the Parabola project are [Free > Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), > with the exceptions of: [licenses for works stating a > viewpoint](http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses) > All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are > Free Culture, with no exceptions. > 3. **Parabola and other distributions**: Parabola's objective is to > support the Free Software Movement, > so we only need to compete against non-Free software; > other Free Software projects are to be cooperated with, > not competed with. Parabola strives to support other Free Software > projects as best we can and any information from our project is > available for anybody who needs it. > That includes our packages and repositories. > 4. **Parabola and its community**: Parabola's community is democratic > in its essence through [consensus > democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy), > so the community is to be included whenever there is a need to make > a decision. > We encourage community participation in the development of the > project. > 5. **Parabola and Arch**: Parabola will produce an operating system > that is a Free version of [Arch (the GNU/Linux > distribution)](http://www.archlinux.org/) > and possibly other Arch-based systems. > We will provide repositories and installation media without any > non-Free software. > All Parabola operating systems will be backward compatible with the > system they are based on, as to help liberate already working > installations. > We will respect the design philosophies of the systems ours are > based on, to reduce friction from both developer and > user viewpoints. > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > +1 love it From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Wed Jun 15 03:16:14 2016 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 22:16:14 -0500 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le mar. 14 juin 2016 ? 21:09, coadde a ?crit : > I would give you my proposal based on opinions made by all users in > these days here, what do you think guys? Besides adding a link to http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses and not explicitly mentioning license texts and the GFDL with invariants sections as exceptions to point 2, this version is essentially the same Luke Shumaker's latest version in git. Isn't it? I'm OK with any of these two, but I prefer the mention to license texts. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coadde at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 05:57:07 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 02:57:07 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: On 06/15/2016 12:16 AM, Isaac David wrote: > Besides adding a link > to http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses > and not explicitly mentioning license texts and the GFDL with > invariants sections as exceptions to point 2, this version is > essentially the same Luke Shumaker's latest version in > git. Isn't it? Yes, however in this case i added the consensus democracy reference suggested by Emulatorman in the clause 4 [0] [0]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2016-June/004126.html > I'm OK with any of these two, but I prefer the mention to > license texts. Yes, you're right, it needs references about invariant sections [1]. [1]:https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC1 Now, see my new proposal below with the new changes about invariant sections, what do you think? The Parabola Social Contract is the commitment that we, the Parabola project, make to the Free Software community in general and our users in particular. It is because of this that our social contract will always follow the philosophy of Free knowledge. All amendments to this social contract must be faithful to the spirit of the [Free Software Movement](https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software). 1. **Parabola is Free Software**: Products of the Parabola project follow the [GNU Free System Distribution Guidelines (http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html). They do not include or recommend non-Free software or documentation and do not provide any type of support for the installation or execution of non-Free software. This includes: proprietary software, binary only firmware or binary blobs. 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works included in products of the Parabola project are [Free Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), with the exceptions of: [licenses for works stating a viewpoint](http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses) and [invariant sections](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC1). All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are Free Culture, with no exceptions. 3. **Parabola and other distributions**: Parabola's objective is to support the Free Software Movement, so we only need to compete against non-Free software; other Free Software projects are to be cooperated with, not competed with. Parabola strives to support other Free Software projects as best we can and any information from our project is available for anybody who needs it. That includes our packages and repositories. 4. **Parabola and its community**: Parabola's community is democratic in its essence through [consensus democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy), so the community is to be included whenever there is a need to make a decision. We encourage community participation in the development of the project. 5. **Parabola and Arch**: Parabola will produce an operating system that is a Free version of [Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)](http://www.archlinux.org/) and possibly other Arch-based systems. We will provide repositories and installation media without any non-Free software. All Parabola operating systems will be backward compatible with the system they are based on, as to help liberate already working installations. We will respect the design philosophies of the systems ours are based on, to reduce friction from both developer and user viewpoints. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 06:15:08 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 03:15:08 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> On 06/15/2016 02:57 AM, coadde wrote: > Now, see my new proposal below with the new changes about invariant > sections, what do you think? +1, however i think we could add another detail in the exception part in clause 2 to mean "cover texts" as another exception, eg: 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works included in products of the Parabola project are [Free Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), with the exceptions of: [licenses for works stating a viewpoint](http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses), [invariant sections](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC1) and [cover texts](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC2). All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are Free Culture, with no exceptions. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 07:23:34 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 04:23:34 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> Message-ID: <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> On 06/15/2016 03:15 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/15/2016 02:57 AM, coadde wrote: >> Now, see my new proposal below with the new changes about invariant >> sections, what do you think? > > +1, however i think we could add another detail in the exception part in > clause 2 to mean "cover texts" as another exception, eg: > > 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works > included in products of the Parabola project are [Free > Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), > with the exceptions of: [licenses for works stating a > viewpoint](http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses), > [invariant > sections](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC1) and > [cover texts](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC2). > All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are > Free Culture, with no exceptions. I forgot add my suggestion about adhocracy with some changes for clause 4 :P ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. **Parabola and its community**: Parabola's community is [democratic in its essence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy) and [adhocratic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhocracy) as form of organization, so the community is to be included whenever there is a need to make a decision. We encourage community participation in the development of the project. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Adding "adhocracy" as form of organization clarify how works the development of the project to encourage community participation. ;) What do you think guys? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 07:26:28 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 04:26:28 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 06/15/2016 04:23 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/15/2016 03:15 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >> On 06/15/2016 02:57 AM, coadde wrote: >>> Now, see my new proposal below with the new changes about invariant >>> sections, what do you think? >> >> +1, however i think we could add another detail in the exception part in >> clause 2 to mean "cover texts" as another exception, eg: >> >> 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works >> included in products of the Parabola project are [Free >> Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), >> with the exceptions of: [licenses for works stating a >> viewpoint](http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses), >> [invariant >> sections](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC1) and >> [cover texts](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC2). >> All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are >> Free Culture, with no exceptions. > > I forgot add my suggestion about adhocracy with some changes for clause 4 :P > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 4. **Parabola and its community**: Parabola's community is [democratic > in its essence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy) > and [adhocratic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhocracy) as form of > organization, > so the community is to be included whenever there is a need to make > a decision. > We encourage community participation in the development of the > project. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Adding "adhocracy" as form of organization clarify how works the > development of the project to encourage community participation. ;) > > What do you think guys? +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From crazytoon at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 08:08:58 2016 From: crazytoon at riseup.net (Crazytoon) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 05:08:58 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57610D1A.8080203@riseup.net> El 15/06/16 a las 04:26, coadde escribi?: > On 06/15/2016 04:23 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >> On 06/15/2016 03:15 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >>> On 06/15/2016 02:57 AM, coadde wrote: >>>> Now, see my new proposal below with the new changes about invariant >>>> sections, what do you think? >>> >>> +1, however i think we could add another detail in the exception part in >>> clause 2 to mean "cover texts" as another exception, eg: >>> >>> 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works >>> included in products of the Parabola project are [Free >>> Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), >>> with the exceptions of: [licenses for works stating a >>> viewpoint](http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OpinionLicenses), >>> [invariant >>> sections](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC1) and >>> [cover texts](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt#SEC2). >>> All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are >>> Free Culture, with no exceptions. >> >> I forgot add my suggestion about adhocracy with some changes for clause 4 :P >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> 4. **Parabola and its community**: Parabola's community is [democratic >> in its essence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy) >> and [adhocratic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhocracy) as form of >> organization, >> so the community is to be included whenever there is a need to make >> a decision. >> We encourage community participation in the development of the >> project. >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Adding "adhocracy" as form of organization clarify how works the >> development of the project to encourage community participation. ;) >> >> What do you think guys? > > +1 +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Wed Jun 15 17:54:07 2016 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:54:07 -0500 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <1466013247.1047.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le mar. 14 juin 2016 ? 22:16, Isaac David a ?crit : > essentially the same Luke Shumaker's latest version I mean "same as Luke Shumaker's" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rms at gnu.org Wed Jun 15 20:24:52 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 16:24:52 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: (message from coadde on Tue, 14 Jun 2016 23:09:36 -0300) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works > included in products of the Parabola project are [Free > Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), I will fetch that page now, but if I remember right, it restates the GNU definition of free, except not limited to software. The GFDL allows invariant sections and cover texts because they are consistent with that definition. They affect labeling of the manual, not the manual contents. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From tct at ceata.org Thu Jun 16 01:28:58 2016 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 04:28:58 +0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> On 06/15/2016 11:24 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > > 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works > > included in products of the Parabola project are [Free > > Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), > > I will fetch that page now, but if I remember right, it restates the > GNU definition of free, except not limited to software. > The GFDL allows invariant sections and cover texts because they > are consistent with that definition. They affect labeling of the > manual, not the manual contents. Three years ago we had a similar discussion at Ceata, a foundation for free software and free culture based in Romania, and we have decided to treat works licensed under GFDL with invariant sections and works of opinion on free software licensed under CC BY-ND as acceptable exceptions in our free software and free culture projects (including translations), along with free software and free culture license texts. We have decided to do so because these exceptions help advancing the free software movement, and we know most companies and people in the open source camp are happy to delete GNU from free software names and GNU philosophy paragraphs included with the software documentation, or even worse, twist RMS' words. Also, at Ceata we believe we need more urgently software freedom than culture freedom and hardware freedom. But in the end, it is up to Parabola to decide. Tiberiu From nobody at parabola.nu Thu Jun 16 02:54:04 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 02:54:04 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [dianara] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160616025404.13873.41760@parabola.nu> substruction at riseup.net wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * dianara 1.3.3-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/dianara/ * dianara 1.3.3-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/dianara/ The user provided the following additional text: https://identi.ca/jankusanagi/image/krlRTiEVRn6O8GJT5kLnRQ From g4jc at openmailbox.org Thu Jun 16 01:49:09 2016 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:49:09 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> Message-ID: On 06/15/2016 09:28 PM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: > On 06/15/2016 11:24 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: >> > 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works >> > included in products of the Parabola project are [Free >> > Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), >> >> I will fetch that page now, but if I remember right, it restates the >> GNU definition of free, except not limited to software. >> The GFDL allows invariant sections and cover texts because they >> are consistent with that definition. They affect labeling of the >> manual, not the manual contents. > Three years ago we had a similar discussion at Ceata, a foundation for > free software and free culture based in Romania, and we have decided to > treat works licensed under GFDL with invariant sections and works of > opinion on free software licensed under CC BY-ND as acceptable > exceptions in our free software and free culture projects (including > translations), along with free software and free culture license texts. > > We have decided to do so because these exceptions help advancing the > free software movement, and we know most companies and people in the > open source camp are happy to delete GNU from free software names and > GNU philosophy paragraphs included with the software documentation, or > even worse, twist RMS' words. > > Also, at Ceata we believe we need more urgently software freedom than > culture freedom and hardware freedom. > > But in the end, it is up to Parabola to decide. > > Tiberiu > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > You bring up a good point, there is a risk of having words twisted, but I think that is a price to pay for free speech. People could always try and twist our words even with the proper licensing. We urgently need all three categories: Free Software, Cultural Freedom, and Hardware freedom. In order for information to flow freely, each of these areas are critical. I like our section 2 as it is mentioned above, for being pro-active on two of those fronts. Hardware freedom is outside the scope of Parabola, but it is getting to the point where it won't be possible to install custom operating systems such as GNU/Linux on modern hardware as DRM and other restrictive mechanism are put in place on non-free hardware. See the current situation with the FCC and wireless routers for just one example. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 16 03:02:35 2016 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 23:02:35 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87d1nhzvhw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 03:23:34 -0400, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/15/2016 03:15 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: > > I forgot add my suggestion about adhocracy with some changes for clause 4 :P > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 4. **Parabola and its community**: Parabola's community is [democratic > in its essence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_democracy) > and [adhocratic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhocracy) as form of > organization, > so the community is to be included whenever there is a need to make > a decision. > We encourage community participation in the development of the > project. I'd rather have it worded as > Parabola's community is democratic in its essence and adhocratic > it its form, I'm not a huge fan of linking to Wikipedia, but it's not a big deal. +1 -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 03:15:06 2016 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 04:15:06 +0100 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> Message-ID: <576219BA.5020606@gmail.com> "Parabola is Free Culture: All documentation and cultural works included in products of the Parabola project are Free Culture, with the exceptions of: licenses for works stating a viewpoint, invariant sections and cover texts. All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are Free Culture, with no exceptions." Hello, I generally take issue with these exceptions, were they in the old version of the Social Contract? Also, are there any instances where these exceptions have already been included in the distribution? I would like to think parabola is completely free without exceptions, as written on the Free Cultural Works Definition page. Also, the wording is confusing (perhaps contradictory), namely "All documentation and cultural works included in products of the Parabola project are Free Culture, with the exceptions of" and "All documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are Free Culture, with no exceptions." Josh From emulatorman at riseup.net Thu Jun 16 03:35:14 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:35:14 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87d1nhzvhw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> <87d1nhzvhw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <3a97f9e1-1c14-3220-13fa-03c4223a6c93@riseup.net> On 06/16/2016 12:02 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > I'd rather have it worded as > >> Parabola's community is democratic in its essence and adhocratic >> it its form, +1 I agree since english is not my native language (i'm brazilian) :P > I'm not a huge fan of linking to Wikipedia, but it's not a big deal. Maybe for consensus democracy we could use references such as consensualdemocracy website [0] Otherwise, about Adhocracy, there is book called "Adhocracy" by Robert H. Waterman, Jr. It could be useful as reference, however i'm looking for another sources about it. [0] http://www.consensualdemocracy.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Thu Jun 16 03:59:11 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:59:11 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <3a97f9e1-1c14-3220-13fa-03c4223a6c93@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> <87d1nhzvhw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <3a97f9e1-1c14-3220-13fa-03c4223a6c93@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 06/16/2016 12:35 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/16/2016 12:02 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >> I'd rather have it worded as >> >>> Parabola's community is democratic in its essence and adhocratic >>> it its form, > > +1 I agree since english is not my native language (i'm brazilian) :P > >> I'm not a huge fan of linking to Wikipedia, but it's not a big deal. > > Maybe for consensus democracy we could use references such as > consensualdemocracy website [0] > > Otherwise, about Adhocracy, there is book called "Adhocracy" by Robert > H. Waterman, Jr. It could be useful as reference, however i'm looking > for another sources about it. > > [0] http://www.consensualdemocracy.com/ I found it as reference for Adhocracy [0]. I'm reading it now to check if it is useful as reference. [0] https://www.britannica.com/topic/adhocracy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Thu Jun 16 04:27:56 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:27:56 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> <87d1nhzvhw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <3a97f9e1-1c14-3220-13fa-03c4223a6c93@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 06/16/2016 12:59 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/16/2016 12:35 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >> On 06/16/2016 12:02 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >>> I'd rather have it worded as >>> >>>> Parabola's community is democratic in its essence and adhocratic >>>> it its form, >> >> +1 I agree since english is not my native language (i'm brazilian) :P >> >>> I'm not a huge fan of linking to Wikipedia, but it's not a big deal. >> >> Maybe for consensus democracy we could use references such as >> consensualdemocracy website [0] >> >> Otherwise, about Adhocracy, there is book called "Adhocracy" by Robert >> H. Waterman, Jr. It could be useful as reference, however i'm looking >> for another sources about it. >> >> [0] http://www.consensualdemocracy.com/ > > I found it as reference for Adhocracy [0]. I'm reading it now to check > if it is useful as reference. > > [0] https://www.britannica.com/topic/adhocracy I am coming to the conclusion that we should create both articles (consensus democracy) and (adhocracy) from our own wiki [0]. We could use those references as inspiration (eg. Wikipedia articles) to begin our version. What do you think? [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Thu Jun 16 05:40:42 2016 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:40:42 -0500 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <576219BA.5020606@gmail.com> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> <576219BA.5020606@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1466055642.1064.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le mer. 15 juin 2016 ? 22:15, Josh Branning a ?crit : > I generally take issue with these exceptions, were they in the old > version of the Social Contract? Apparently not, here is the history: https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Parabola_Social_Contract&action=history > Also, are there any instances where these exceptions have already > been included in the distribution? Yes, probably for as long as Parabola has been around. The documentation included with many GNU packages is an example of it. Well, to be fair it's only parts of their documentation, but those materials don't permit modification nonetheless. Reflecting this fact in the social contract is an improvement although it may have met some expectations with surprise, precisely because it will stop producing false expectations. This is not to imply the situation may not change in the future. > Also, the wording is confusing (perhaps contradictory), namely "All > documentation and cultural works included in products of the Parabola > project are Free Culture, with the exceptions of" and "All > documentation and cultural works created by or for Parabola are Free > Culture, with no exceptions." I don't have issues interpreting it. In-house projects are libre without exceptions. Imported projects are subject to the exceptions. At the end of the day all software, fonts, sounds and images in Parabola meet both the FSDG and the Definition of Free Cultural Works as far as I can tell. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Thu Jun 16 07:00:56 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 04:00:56 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> <87d1nhzvhw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <3a97f9e1-1c14-3220-13fa-03c4223a6c93@riseup.net> Message-ID: <8b2ffce3-bc95-00ee-1f5b-192533349633@riseup.net> On 06/16/2016 01:27 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/16/2016 12:59 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >> On 06/16/2016 12:35 AM, Andr? Silva wrote: >>> On 06/16/2016 12:02 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >>>> I'd rather have it worded as >>>> >>>>> Parabola's community is democratic in its essence and adhocratic >>>>> it its form, >>> >>> +1 I agree since english is not my native language (i'm brazilian) :P >>> >>>> I'm not a huge fan of linking to Wikipedia, but it's not a big deal. >>> >>> Maybe for consensus democracy we could use references such as >>> consensualdemocracy website [0] >>> >>> Otherwise, about Adhocracy, there is book called "Adhocracy" by Robert >>> H. Waterman, Jr. It could be useful as reference, however i'm looking >>> for another sources about it. >>> >>> [0] http://www.consensualdemocracy.com/ >> >> I found it as reference for Adhocracy [0]. I'm reading it now to check >> if it is useful as reference. >> >> [0] https://www.britannica.com/topic/adhocracy > > I am coming to the conclusion that we should create both articles > (consensus democracy) and (adhocracy) from our own wiki [0]. We could > use those references as inspiration (eg. Wikipedia articles) to begin > our version. What do you think? > > [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu I've created articles about Consensus democracy [0] and Adhocracy [1] in our wiki to be used in clause 4. Those articles are based on Wikipedia articles ones. Maybe it need more expansion and modifications, but it is a good way to avoid use linking to Wikipedia. What do you think guys? [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Consensus_democracy [1] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tct at ceata.org Thu Jun 16 09:27:49 2016 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:27:49 +0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> Message-ID: <57627115.8000300@ceata.org> On 06/16/2016 04:49 AM, Luke wrote: > You bring up a good point, there is a risk of having words twisted, but > I think that is a price to pay for free speech. Free speech means saying what you want to say (if it's not hate speech, but that a different discussion) as your own opinion. Repeating what someone else said "in a way that has a different meaning" and pretending it's what the other person said and meant, I don't believe that's free speech. That is what I meant with "twisting RMS' words". > People could always try and twist our words even with the proper licensing. Sure, but with the proper licensing (NoDerivs), it's easier to enforce it, because it's easier to prove that the word twisting is a copyright violation than prove in court it's something not ethical/violates other human rights. > We urgently need all three categories: Free Software, Cultural Freedom, > and Hardware freedom. I can understand this romantic view, but I disagree. Having free software means having control over our digital tools, which is the foundations of a free digital society. We can survive without free culture, because as you implied, people don't respect copyright licenses and they shouldn't if those licenses represent abuses. Music and movies are being redistributed and remixed even without a proper free culture license. Also, there is the concept of fair use in using copyrighted cultural works in your work. And adding new hardware functionality to already manufactured boards (or even less to already manufactured processors) is near to impossible without remanufacturing the hardware with a changed design all over again, which most people don't have the means of production to do (or the money to pay for). However, improving existing software features or adding new software features of hardware boards and devices can be done if the software is free/libre. You only need to have programming skills or ask one of the many programmers to do it, so it's much easier, it's doable. This is why it's no coincidence free software movement was the first to appear 30 years ago, and only 10 years ago free culture and free hardware design movements. > In order for information to flow freely, each of > these areas are critical. If you're talking only about free information flow, that can be accomplished simply by respecting freedom to redistribute exact copies, which is only one of the four essential freedoms. Thanks, Tiberiu From g4jc at openmailbox.org Thu Jun 16 11:58:52 2016 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 07:58:52 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <57627A39.9090909@riseup.net> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> <57627115.8000300@ceata.org> <57627A39.9090909@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 06/16/2016 06:06 AM, Julie Marchant wrote: > On 06/16/2016 05:27 AM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: >>> People could always try and twist our words even with the proper licensing. >> Sure, but with the proper licensing (NoDerivs), it's easier to enforce >> it, because it's easier to prove that the word twisting is a copyright >> violation than prove in court it's something not ethical/violates other >> human rights. > I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant by "proper licensing". It's > possible to twist someone's words without violating any copyright, > regardless of what the license is. Quote-mines, for example, are not > copyright infringement in the U.S. It's fair use to quote someone. I > discussed this and other points against this sort of protectionism based > on No-Derivatives licenses more at length here: > > https://onpon4.github.io/other/fsf-no-derivatives/ > Yes, I was referring to fair use of quotes in the context you mentioned. It is very common to see quotes that are completely legal, but not properly used in context which confuse it's meaning to the reader. The article you mentioned is a very good summary about this subject, I hadn't read it before. Thanks for sharing. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ebrasca.ebrasca at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 13:49:07 2016 From: ebrasca.ebrasca at gmail.com (Bruno Cichon) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 15:49:07 +0200 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> Message-ID: I can't accept exclude GNU or RMS. Because of GNU / RMS come libre software. Parabola is GNU/Linux-libre. On 16/06/16 03:28, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: > On 06/15/2016 11:24 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: >> > 2. **Parabola is Free Culture**: All documentation and cultural works >> > included in products of the Parabola project are [Free >> > Culture](http://freedomdefined.org/Definition), >> >> I will fetch that page now, but if I remember right, it restates the >> GNU definition of free, except not limited to software. >> The GFDL allows invariant sections and cover texts because they >> are consistent with that definition. They affect labeling of the >> manual, not the manual contents. > > Three years ago we had a similar discussion at Ceata, a foundation for > free software and free culture based in Romania, and we have decided to > treat works licensed under GFDL with invariant sections and works of > opinion on free software licensed under CC BY-ND as acceptable > exceptions in our free software and free culture projects (including > translations), along with free software and free culture license texts. > > We have decided to do so because these exceptions help advancing the > free software movement, and we know most companies and people in the > open source camp are happy to delete GNU from free software names and > GNU philosophy paragraphs included with the software documentation, or > even worse, twist RMS' words. > > Also, at Ceata we believe we need more urgently software freedom than > culture freedom and hardware freedom. > > But in the end, it is up to Parabola to decide. > > Tiberiu > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Thu Jun 16 15:20:43 2016 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:20:43 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <8b2ffce3-bc95-00ee-1f5b-192533349633@riseup.net> References: <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> <87d1nhzvhw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <3a97f9e1-1c14-3220-13fa-03c4223a6c93@riseup.net> <8b2ffce3-bc95-00ee-1f5b-192533349633@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87vb19p3ck.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Andr? Silva writes: >> I am coming to the conclusion that we should create both articles >> (consensus democracy) and (adhocracy) from our own wiki [0]. We could >> use those references as inspiration (eg. Wikipedia articles) to begin >> our version. What do you think? >> >> [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu > > I've created articles about Consensus democracy [0] and Adhocracy [1] in > our wiki to be used in clause 4. Those articles are based on Wikipedia > articles ones. Maybe it need more expansion and modifications, but it is > a good way to avoid use linking to Wikipedia. What do you think guys? > > [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Consensus_democracy > [1] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy i prefer this definition, i think it's more clear and has a nice step by step howto :P http://consensusdecisionmaking.org/ -- :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Thu Jun 16 19:15:49 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 16:15:49 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <87vb19p3ck.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> <87d1nhzvhw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <3a97f9e1-1c14-3220-13fa-03c4223a6c93@riseup.net> <8b2ffce3-bc95-00ee-1f5b-192533349633@riseup.net> <87vb19p3ck.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: On 06/16/2016 12:20 PM, fauno wrote: > Andr? Silva writes: >>> I am coming to the conclusion that we should create both articles >>> (consensus democracy) and (adhocracy) from our own wiki [0]. We could >>> use those references as inspiration (eg. Wikipedia articles) to begin >>> our version. What do you think? >>> >>> [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu >> >> I've created articles about Consensus democracy [0] and Adhocracy [1] in >> our wiki to be used in clause 4. Those articles are based on Wikipedia >> articles ones. Maybe it need more expansion and modifications, but it is >> a good way to avoid use linking to Wikipedia. What do you think guys? >> >> [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Consensus_democracy >> [1] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy > > i prefer this definition, i think it's more clear and has a nice step by > step howto :P > > http://consensusdecisionmaking.org/ +1 such as reference for Consensus democracy, however we need for Adhocracy meaning too. Do you have some reference for Adhocracy? It could be good! :) Anyway, we could use our wiki article for Adhocracy temporally until get one similar than consensusdecisionmaking.org for Adhocracy. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Thu Jun 16 20:12:04 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 17:12:04 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1465960574.1028.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <4836b19c-f4c2-355d-30b4-61069fcda142@riseup.net> <90e88546-862a-cb6b-fc63-8b893b1a25bd@riseup.net> <87d1nhzvhw.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <3a97f9e1-1c14-3220-13fa-03c4223a6c93@riseup.net> <8b2ffce3-bc95-00ee-1f5b-192533349633@riseup.net> <87vb19p3ck.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: On 06/16/2016 04:15 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/16/2016 12:20 PM, fauno wrote: >> Andr? Silva writes: >>>> I am coming to the conclusion that we should create both articles >>>> (consensus democracy) and (adhocracy) from our own wiki [0]. We could >>>> use those references as inspiration (eg. Wikipedia articles) to begin >>>> our version. What do you think? >>>> >>>> [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu >>> >>> I've created articles about Consensus democracy [0] and Adhocracy [1] in >>> our wiki to be used in clause 4. Those articles are based on Wikipedia >>> articles ones. Maybe it need more expansion and modifications, but it is >>> a good way to avoid use linking to Wikipedia. What do you think guys? >>> >>> [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Consensus_democracy >>> [1] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy >> >> i prefer this definition, i think it's more clear and has a nice step by >> step howto :P >> >> http://consensusdecisionmaking.org/ > > +1 such as reference for Consensus democracy, however we need for > Adhocracy meaning too. Do you have some reference for Adhocracy? It > could be good! :) > > Anyway, we could use our wiki article for Adhocracy temporally until get > one similar than consensusdecisionmaking.org for Adhocracy. Fauno sent me some cool references [0][1][2] about Adhocracy made by him. Now, i'm translating it to english to add in our Adhocracy article [3] (i will remove current article based on Wikipedia in our wiki since it is very managerial since our point of view), then let you know when it's ready. :) [0] https://github.com/fauno/herramientas-para-la-adhocracia [1] http://wiki.hackcoop.com.ar/Adhocracia [2] http://wiki.hackcoop.com.ar/Galponeo [3] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Adhocracy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rms at gnu.org Thu Jun 16 23:18:11 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 19:18:11 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: (message from Luke on Thu, 16 Jun 2016 07:58:52 -0400) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> <57627115.8000300@ceata.org> <57627A39.9090909@riseup.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Quoting part of a statement correctly is legitimate because that practice is necessary for intellectual conversation. Quoting incorrectly can be misleading; I am not sure if that is fair use. Publishing a modified version of someone else's statement is far more misleading. Thus, I recommend the Noderivatives condition for statements of opinion. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From ingegnue at riseup.net Fri Jun 17 00:50:53 2016 From: ingegnue at riseup.net (IngeGNUe) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 20:50:53 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> <57627115.8000300@ceata.org> <57627A39.9090909@riseup.net> Message-ID: <7a7fd503-e811-1959-8932-7dd010acfff7@riseup.net> On 06/16/16 19:18, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Quoting part of a statement correctly is legitimate because that > practice is necessary for intellectual conversation. Quoting > incorrectly can be misleading; I am not sure if that is fair use. > Publishing a modified version of someone else's statement is far more > misleading. Thus, I recommend the Noderivatives condition for > statements of opinion. > Hey all, I think CC resolved this issue in version 4.0: "In 4.0, you must indicate if you modified the material and retain an indication of previous modifications. In 3.0 and earlier license versions, the indication of changes is only required if you create a derivative." http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ (Quote above found when you click the link "indicate if changes were made".) https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/License_Versions#Modifications_and_adaptations_must_be_indicated What do you think? From coadde at riseup.net Fri Jun 17 11:34:27 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 08:34:27 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) Message-ID: Hi guys, i paid attention that our main page wiki needs be upgraded, it only mention to Operating System former name, but not the project, Free culture and Arch ARM project. eg: What is Parabola project (Free Software and Culture), What is Parabola GNU/Linux-libre (Operating System distribution former name), Documentation, FAQ and Help[0]. There's a discussion to make some adjustments, so i suggest your participation in the development of our new version. Happy hacking! [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Main_Page [1]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coadde at riseup.net Fri Jun 17 12:07:44 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:07:44 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20afdb04-60ed-e85c-43c9-a47cdee807d4@riseup.net> \|[1]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Nomenclature|d -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Fri Jun 17 22:55:01 2016 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 23:55:01 +0100 Subject: [Dev] parabola-arm gnu/linux up and running on eoma68-a20 Message-ID: hi folks, i thought you might appreciate knowing that the EOMA68-A20 CPU Card can be added to the list of hardware on the wiki that runs parabola armv7h. a demo first-boot video is here: https://youtu.be/Ld6_W9IF3bk - since that video i've removed systemd and installed openrc, and am currently progressing through installation of xfce4. the kernel version is 3.4.61+ from the linux-sunxi community, and u-boot is again the sunxi variant, version 1.1.15 i believe. i'm working towards RYF compliance for the (very soon) upcoming crowd-funding launch of the 15.6in libre laptop, so an FSF-Endorsed OS was - is - a strategically critical part of that. so, huge thank you to everyone who's worked on parabola-arm. l. --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 23:01:13 2016 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 00:01:13 +0100 Subject: [Dev] parabola-arm gnu/linux up and running on eoma68-a20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57648139.3010807@gmail.com> On 17/06/16 23:55, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > the kernel version is 3.4.61+ from the linux-sunxi community Hi, did you de-blob this kernel with the linux libre script(s)? Perhaps it may be worth doing so in future for the libre laptop. Just a thought, Josh From lkcl at lkcl.net Sat Jun 18 16:57:26 2016 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:57:26 +0100 Subject: [Dev] parabola-arm gnu/linux up and running on eoma68-a20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> the kernel version is 3.4.61+ from the linux-sunxi community > > Hi, did you de-blob this kernel with the linux libre script(s)? Perhaps > it may be worth doing so in future for the libre laptop. > > Just a thought, > > Josh hi josh, i hadn't - so greatly appreciated the heads-up. l. --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 From rms at gnu.org Sat Jun 18 18:00:39 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:00:39 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <7a7fd503-e811-1959-8932-7dd010acfff7@riseup.net> (message from IngeGNUe on Thu, 16 Jun 2016 20:50:53 -0400) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> <57627115.8000300@ceata.org> <57627A39.9090909@riseup.net> <7a7fd503-e811-1959-8932-7dd010acfff7@riseup.net> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > "In 4.0, you must indicate if you modified the material and retain an > indication of previous modifications. In 3.0 and earlier license > versions, the indication of changes is only required if you create a > derivative." This small change may be an improvement, but it doesn't really change the situation. I think it is correct to publish statements of views and testimony under a no-derivatives license. Functional works (those designed to be used to do a practical job) must be free so that those who are using them practically have control over the job. That reason does not apply to statements of opinion or testimony, or to art. See http://gnu.org/philosophy/copyright-vs-community.html for where I stand about these issues. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org Sun Jun 19 04:40:13 2016 From: eliotime3000 at openmailbox.org (eliotime3000) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 23:40:13 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Some request about use the FSF mirror service Message-ID: <79db0c20-d3f3-b61e-ea6e-523e6d7b29e4@openmailbox.org> Hi. I've seen that the FSF mirror service is avariable for anyone that haves a fully free distro, and I've seen that is possible a request to the sysadmin of the service for Parabola GNU/Linux-Libre. I've seen that Parabola haves a few servers, so I decided to propose to request to the FSF that store in their server a Mirror for Parabola. I don't know if is possible. Any debate is welcome. Thanks. Eliot. From flodiaz81 at riseup.net Sun Jun 19 12:31:59 2016 From: flodiaz81 at riseup.net (Florencia Diaz) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 09:31:59 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) Message-ID: <8259a57d-5bf2-9d81-6e1f-5e037d398109@riseup.net> It is my proposal for Main page: ######################################################################## TEXT ######################################################################## Welcome to the Parabola wiki! For a list of articles in this wiki check the Table of Contents. What is Parabola? Parabola is a Free Software and Free Culture project aiming to provide a fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux distribution called Parabola GNU/Linux-libre. It is based on the packages of the Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution) and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages optimized for i686, x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep its package and management tools simple. The primary goal is to give the user complete control over their system with 100% Free Software and Free Culture. Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is listed by the Free Software Foundation as a fully Free Software distribution. Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold into whatever kind of system you're building. You can find us on #parabola or mailing list. General documentation The Installation Guide will walk you through the process of downloading an ISO from our Repositories and installing Parabola GNU/Linux-libre on your system. We have separate installation instructions for the MIPS (discontinued) and ARM v7 architectures. If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to use its repositories. See the Migration guides for x86 and ARM v7 architectures for instructions. Be sure to take a look at the Parabola Social Contract, it guides us in all we do. FAQ Our frequently asked questions is to provide answers to questions often asked by users who moved to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre from the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux ones. It discusses issues caused by making the system completely Free. For explanation on technical details of the system look at Arch FAQ. ####################################################################### Source for Parabola Wiki ####################################################################### {{i18n|Main_Page}} __NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__ Welcome to the '''[https://parabola.nu Parabola] wiki'''! For a list of articles in this wiki check the [[Table of Contents]]. == What is '''Parabola'''? == '''Parabola''' is a '''[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html Free Software]''' and '''[http://freedomdefined.org/Definition Free Culture] project aiming to provide a fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux distribution called '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre'''. It is based on the packages of the [http://archlinux.org Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)] and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages optimized for i686, x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep its package and management tools simple. The primary goal is to give the user complete control over their system with 100% Free Software and Free Culture. '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre''' is listed by the [http://www.fsf.org/ Free Software Foundation] as a fully Free Software distribution. Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold into whatever kind of system you're building. You can find us on {{irc}} or [http://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo mailing list]. === General documentation === The [[Installation Guide]] will walk you through the process of downloading an ISO from our [[Repositories]] and installing Parabola GNU/Linux-libre on your system. We have separate installation instructions for the [[MIPS Installation|MIPS]] ([https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-support-for-mips64el-discontinued/ discontinued]) and [[ARM Installation Guide|ARM v7]] architectures. If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to use its repositories. See the Migration guides for [[Migration From Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)|x86]] and [[Migration from Arch ARM (the GNU/Linux distribution)|ARM v7]] for instructions. Be sure to take a look at the [[Parabola Social Contract]], it guides us in all we do. === FAQ === Our [[FAQ|frequently asked questions]] is to provide answers to questions often asked by users who moved to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre from the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux ones. It discusses issues caused by making the system completely Free. For explanation on technical details of the system look at [[a:FAQ|Arch FAQ]]. == How to help == Parabola is made by volunteers. '''See our [[How to help]] page for things you can do.''' [[File:Gnu01-mascot-logo+parabola-logo 100ppi.png]] From lkcl at lkcl.net Sun Jun 19 13:57:43 2016 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 14:57:43 +0100 Subject: [Dev] status of icecat for armv7h? Message-ID: [please cc me on replies as i subscribe "nomail" to lists, thanks] folks hi what's the status of icecat for armv7h? it's not listed as an available package for installation, although a ton of stuff that *depends* on it is, such as all the language packs, the ublock plugin etc. l. --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Sun Jun 19 18:42:49 2016 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 13:42:49 -0500 Subject: [Dev] status of icecat for armv7h? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1466361769.2956.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le dim. 19 juin 2016 ? 8:57, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a ?crit : > [please cc me on replies as i subscribe "nomail" to lists, thanks] > > folks hi what's the status of icecat for armv7h? it's not listed as > an available package for installation, although a ton of stuff that > *depends* on it is, such as all the language packs, the ublock plugin > etc. > > l. > > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: > https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 Greetings Luke, Neither Icecat nor our free version of Iceweasel is available for armv7h. I have tried several times and at some point I managed to build iceweasel, but it soon became out of date and had to be removed from the repos after dependencies stopped being satisfiable. Firefox has a very sensitive buildprocess to say the least. The language packs and plugins are architecture-agnostic; other Parabola package maintainers build them for x86 regardless of our luck with armv7h. This is why you see them listed on the website. For other armv7h packages that don't need modifications to comply with our free software policies there's also the possibility that they are being pulled from Arch ARM without paying attention to the existence of dependencies that do need intervention, effectively making them look broken on the website. However there aren't many such packages, simply because we have most of the [libre] repo covered. This bug report[1] documents our experiences building Icecat and Iceweasel and also contains some necessary patches, should anyone be interested in taking up the baton. For this matter I think user Jookia on IRC is worth reaching to, because if I recall correctly he has natively compiled modern Firefox or a similar derivative for armv7h in the past. Finally I should mention there's no shortage of web browsers for armv7h in our repos. Any browser packaged for x86 other than Icecat/Iceweasel we also have for armv7h, including Iceape (based on Seamonkey). I have tested none of them though. [1]: https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/896 From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Sun Jun 19 18:50:37 2016 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 13:50:37 -0500 Subject: [Dev] status of icecat for armv7h? In-Reply-To: <1466361769.2956.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <1466361769.2956.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <1466362237.2956.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le dim. 19 juin 2016 ? 13:42, Isaac David a ?crit : > For other armv7h packages that don't > need modifications to comply with our free software policies > there's also the possibility that they are being pulled from > Arch ARM without paying attention to the existence of > dependencies that do need intervention, effectively making > them look broken on the website. However there aren't many > such packages, simply because we have most of the [libre] > repo covered. I must clarify they are actually broken, not just according to the website. Pacman won't find the dependencies because we haven't built them yet. From coadde at riseup.net Sun Jun 19 23:51:24 2016 From: coadde at riseup.net (coadde) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 20:51:24 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) In-Reply-To: <8259a57d-5bf2-9d81-6e1f-5e037d398109@riseup.net> References: <8259a57d-5bf2-9d81-6e1f-5e037d398109@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 06/19/2016 09:31 AM, Florencia Diaz wrote: > It is my proposal for Main page: > > ######################################################################## > > TEXT > > ######################################################################## > > Welcome to the Parabola wiki! > > For a list of articles in this wiki check the Table of Contents. > > What is Parabola? > > Parabola is a Free Software and Free Culture project aiming to provide a > fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux distribution called Parabola > GNU/Linux-libre. It is based on the packages of the Arch (the GNU/Linux > distribution) and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages > optimized for i686, x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep its > package and management tools simple. The primary goal is to give the > user complete control over their system with 100% Free Software and Free > Culture. Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is listed by the Free Software > Foundation as a fully Free Software distribution. > > Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, > code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. > > Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold into > whatever kind of system you're building. > > You can find us on #parabola or mailing list. > > General documentation > > The Installation Guide will walk you through the process of downloading > an ISO from our Repositories and installing Parabola GNU/Linux-libre on > your system. We have separate installation instructions for the MIPS > (discontinued) and ARM v7 architectures. > > If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to > Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to use its > repositories. See the Migration guides for x86 and ARM v7 architectures > for instructions. > > Be sure to take a look at the Parabola Social Contract, it guides us in > all we do. > > FAQ > > Our frequently asked questions is to provide answers to questions often > asked by users who moved to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre from the GNU/Linux > distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux ones. It discusses > issues caused by making the system completely Free. For explanation on > technical details of the system look at Arch FAQ. > > ####################################################################### > > Source for Parabola Wiki > > ####################################################################### > > {{i18n|Main_Page}} __NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__ > > Welcome to the '''[https://parabola.nu Parabola] wiki'''! > > For a list of articles in this wiki check the [[Table of Contents]]. > > == What is '''Parabola'''? == > > '''Parabola''' is a '''[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html Free > Software]''' and '''[http://freedomdefined.org/Definition Free Culture] > project aiming to provide a fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux > distribution called '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre'''. It is based on the > packages of the [http://archlinux.org Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)] > and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages optimized for i686, > x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep its package and > management tools simple. The primary goal is to give the user complete > control over their system with 100% Free Software and Free Culture. > '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre''' is listed by the [http://www.fsf.org/ > Free Software Foundation] as a fully Free Software distribution. > > Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, > code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. > > Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold into > whatever kind of system you're building. > > You can find us on {{irc}} or [http://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo > mailing list]. > > === General documentation === > > The [[Installation Guide]] will walk you through the process of > downloading an ISO from our [[Repositories]] and installing Parabola > GNU/Linux-libre on your system. We have separate installation > instructions for the [[MIPS Installation|MIPS]] > ([https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-support-for-mips64el-discontinued/ > discontinued]) and [[ARM Installation Guide|ARM v7]] architectures. > > If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to > Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to use its > repositories. See the Migration guides for [[Migration From Arch (the > GNU/Linux distribution)|x86]] and [[Migration from Arch ARM (the > GNU/Linux distribution)|ARM v7]] for instructions. > > Be sure to take a look at the [[Parabola Social Contract]], it guides us > in all we do. > > === FAQ === > > Our [[FAQ|frequently asked questions]] is to provide answers to > questions often asked by users who moved to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre > from the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux > ones. It discusses issues caused by making the system completely Free. > For explanation on technical details of the system look at [[a:FAQ|Arch > FAQ]]. > > == How to help == > > Parabola is made by volunteers. > > '''See our [[How to help]] page for things you can do.''' > > [[File:Gnu01-mascot-logo+parabola-logo 100ppi.png]] +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Mon Jun 20 00:37:03 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 21:37:03 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) In-Reply-To: References: <8259a57d-5bf2-9d81-6e1f-5e037d398109@riseup.net> Message-ID: <11bf7c1f-ab54-8877-571f-df46a232ad2e@riseup.net> On 06/19/2016 08:51 PM, coadde wrote: > On 06/19/2016 09:31 AM, Florencia Diaz wrote: >> It is my proposal for Main page: >> >> ######################################################################## >> >> TEXT >> >> ######################################################################## >> >> Welcome to the Parabola wiki! >> >> For a list of articles in this wiki check the Table of Contents. >> >> What is Parabola? >> >> Parabola is a Free Software and Free Culture project aiming to provide a >> fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux distribution called Parabola >> GNU/Linux-libre. It is based on the packages of the Arch (the GNU/Linux >> distribution) and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages >> optimized for i686, x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep its >> package and management tools simple. The primary goal is to give the >> user complete control over their system with 100% Free Software and Free >> Culture. Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is listed by the Free Software >> Foundation as a fully Free Software distribution. >> >> Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, >> code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. >> >> Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold into >> whatever kind of system you're building. >> >> You can find us on #parabola or mailing list. >> >> General documentation >> >> The Installation Guide will walk you through the process of downloading >> an ISO from our Repositories and installing Parabola GNU/Linux-libre on >> your system. We have separate installation instructions for the MIPS >> (discontinued) and ARM v7 architectures. >> >> If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to >> Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to use its >> repositories. See the Migration guides for x86 and ARM v7 architectures >> for instructions. >> >> Be sure to take a look at the Parabola Social Contract, it guides us in >> all we do. >> >> FAQ >> >> Our frequently asked questions is to provide answers to questions often >> asked by users who moved to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre from the GNU/Linux >> distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux ones. It discusses >> issues caused by making the system completely Free. For explanation on >> technical details of the system look at Arch FAQ. >> >> ####################################################################### >> >> Source for Parabola Wiki >> >> ####################################################################### >> >> {{i18n|Main_Page}} __NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__ >> >> Welcome to the '''[https://parabola.nu Parabola] wiki'''! >> >> For a list of articles in this wiki check the [[Table of Contents]]. >> >> == What is '''Parabola'''? == >> >> '''Parabola''' is a '''[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html Free >> Software]''' and '''[http://freedomdefined.org/Definition Free Culture] >> project aiming to provide a fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux >> distribution called '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre'''. It is based on the >> packages of the [http://archlinux.org Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)] >> and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages optimized for i686, >> x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep its package and >> management tools simple. The primary goal is to give the user complete >> control over their system with 100% Free Software and Free Culture. >> '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre''' is listed by the [http://www.fsf.org/ >> Free Software Foundation] as a fully Free Software distribution. >> >> Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, >> code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. >> >> Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold into >> whatever kind of system you're building. >> >> You can find us on {{irc}} or [http://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo >> mailing list]. >> >> === General documentation === >> >> The [[Installation Guide]] will walk you through the process of >> downloading an ISO from our [[Repositories]] and installing Parabola >> GNU/Linux-libre on your system. We have separate installation >> instructions for the [[MIPS Installation|MIPS]] >> ([https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-support-for-mips64el-discontinued/ >> discontinued]) and [[ARM Installation Guide|ARM v7]] architectures. >> >> If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to >> Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to use its >> repositories. See the Migration guides for [[Migration From Arch (the >> GNU/Linux distribution)|x86]] and [[Migration from Arch ARM (the >> GNU/Linux distribution)|ARM v7]] for instructions. >> >> Be sure to take a look at the [[Parabola Social Contract]], it guides us >> in all we do. >> >> === FAQ === >> >> Our [[FAQ|frequently asked questions]] is to provide answers to >> questions often asked by users who moved to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre >> from the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux >> ones. It discusses issues caused by making the system completely Free. >> For explanation on technical details of the system look at [[a:FAQ|Arch >> FAQ]]. >> >> == How to help == >> >> Parabola is made by volunteers. >> >> '''See our [[How to help]] page for things you can do.''' >> >> [[File:Gnu01-mascot-logo+parabola-logo 100ppi.png]] > +1 +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rms at gnu.org Mon Jun 20 23:00:34 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 19:00:34 -0400 Subject: [Dev] Some request about use the FSF mirror service In-Reply-To: <79db0c20-d3f3-b61e-ea6e-523e6d7b29e4@openmailbox.org> (message from eliotime3000 on Sat, 18 Jun 2016 23:40:13 -0500) References: <79db0c20-d3f3-b61e-ea6e-523e6d7b29e4@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The parabola project can ask sysadmin at gnu.org for this. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From rms at gnu.org Mon Jun 20 23:04:13 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 19:04:13 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [libreplanet-discuss] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract In-Reply-To: <1466387400.8514.51.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> (message from Adonay Felipe Nogueira on Sun, 19 Jun 2016 22:50:00 -0300) References: <866254f2-f922-b1d9-1870-79d949bb73d3@riseup.net> <87vb1k7esj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <87r3c87a54.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <1f09a2d7-bdd1-d162-3327-33dda7e7c561@riseup.net> <87twgzysw6.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <0fe6d8af-6a9c-35eb-6f6e-24e39ed9eecc@openmailbox.org> <87r3c3ypky.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <701e24d7-8c65-09a0-3519-f374e64024fb@riseup.net> <87a8iqw0ap.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <224e51e6-a9f3-1419-6bf0-4a1f1abaa975@riseup.net> <87k2htzsc7.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <576200DA.1030106@ceata.org> <57627115.8000300@ceata.org> <57627A39.9090909@riseup.net> <7a7fd503-e811-1959-8932-7dd010acfff7@riseup.net> <1466382112.8514.33.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> <1466387400.8514.51.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I will ask whether they have a recording of that Stockholm speech. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From nobody at parabola.nu Tue Jun 21 17:20:54 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 17:20:54 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160621172054.1512.62881@parabola.nu> etfaker at bestmail.ws wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * iceweasel 1:47.0.deb1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel/ * iceweasel 1:47.0.deb1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel/ * iceweasel-debug 1:47.0.deb1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel-debug/ * iceweasel-debug 1:47.0.deb1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel-debug/ The user provided the following additional text: hunspell got updates, in order for iceweasel to work again it needs to be rebuilt against the new hunspell version. From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Wed Jun 22 00:02:01 2016 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 19:02:01 -0500 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) In-Reply-To: <11bf7c1f-ab54-8877-571f-df46a232ad2e@riseup.net> References: <8259a57d-5bf2-9d81-6e1f-5e037d398109@riseup.net> <11bf7c1f-ab54-8877-571f-df46a232ad2e@riseup.net> Message-ID: <1466553721.2589.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le dim. 19 juin 2016 ? 19:37, Andr? Silva a ?crit : > On 06/19/2016 08:51 PM, coadde wrote: >> On 06/19/2016 09:31 AM, Florencia Diaz wrote: >>> It is my proposal for Main page: >>> >>> >>> ######################################################################## >>> >>> TEXT >>> >>> >>> ######################################################################## >>> >>> Welcome to the Parabola wiki! >>> >>> For a list of articles in this wiki check the Table of Contents. >>> >>> What is Parabola? >>> >>> Parabola is a Free Software and Free Culture project aiming to >>> provide a >>> fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux distribution called Parabola >>> GNU/Linux-libre. It is based on the packages of the Arch (the >>> GNU/Linux >>> distribution) and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages >>> optimized for i686, x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep >>> its >>> package and management tools simple. The primary goal is to give >>> the >>> user complete control over their system with 100% Free Software >>> and Free >>> Culture. Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is listed by the Free Software >>> Foundation as a fully Free Software distribution. >>> >>> Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, >>> code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. >>> >>> Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold >>> into >>> whatever kind of system you're building. >>> >>> You can find us on #parabola or mailing list. >>> >>> General documentation >>> >>> The Installation Guide will walk you through the process of >>> downloading >>> an ISO from our Repositories and installing Parabola >>> GNU/Linux-libre on >>> your system. We have separate installation instructions for the >>> MIPS >>> (discontinued) and ARM v7 architectures. >>> >>> If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to >>> Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to >>> use its >>> repositories. See the Migration guides for x86 and ARM v7 >>> architectures >>> for instructions. >>> >>> Be sure to take a look at the Parabola Social Contract, it guides >>> us in >>> all we do. >>> >>> FAQ >>> >>> Our frequently asked questions is to provide answers to questions >>> often >>> asked by users who moved to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre from the >>> GNU/Linux >>> distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux ones. It discusses >>> issues caused by making the system completely Free. For >>> explanation on >>> technical details of the system look at Arch FAQ. >>> >>> >>> ####################################################################### >>> >>> Source for Parabola Wiki >>> >>> >>> ####################################################################### >>> >>> {{i18n|Main_Page}} __NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__ >>> >>> Welcome to the '''[https://parabola.nu Parabola] wiki'''! >>> >>> For a list of articles in this wiki check the [[Table of >>> Contents]]. >>> >>> == What is '''Parabola'''? == >>> >>> '''Parabola''' is a >>> '''[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html Free >>> Software]''' and '''[http://freedomdefined.org/Definition Free >>> Culture] >>> project aiming to provide a fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux >>> distribution called '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre'''. It is based on >>> the >>> packages of the [http://archlinux.org Arch (the GNU/Linux >>> distribution)] >>> and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages optimized for >>> i686, >>> x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep its package and >>> management tools simple. The primary goal is to give the user >>> complete >>> control over their system with 100% Free Software and Free Culture. >>> '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre''' is listed by the >>> [http://www.fsf.org/ >>> Free Software Foundation] as a fully Free Software distribution. >>> >>> Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, >>> code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. >>> >>> Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold >>> into >>> whatever kind of system you're building. >>> >>> You can find us on {{irc}} or >>> [http://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo >>> mailing list]. >>> >>> === General documentation === >>> >>> The [[Installation Guide]] will walk you through the process of >>> downloading an ISO from our [[Repositories]] and installing >>> Parabola >>> GNU/Linux-libre on your system. We have separate installation >>> instructions for the [[MIPS Installation|MIPS]] >>> >>> ([https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-support-for-mips64el-discontinued/ >>> discontinued]) and [[ARM Installation Guide|ARM v7]] architectures. >>> >>> If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to >>> Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to >>> use its >>> repositories. See the Migration guides for [[Migration From Arch >>> (the >>> GNU/Linux distribution)|x86]] and [[Migration from Arch ARM (the >>> GNU/Linux distribution)|ARM v7]] for instructions. >>> >>> Be sure to take a look at the [[Parabola Social Contract]], it >>> guides us >>> in all we do. >>> >>> === FAQ === >>> >>> Our [[FAQ|frequently asked questions]] is to provide answers to >>> questions often asked by users who moved to Parabola >>> GNU/Linux-libre >>> from the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux >>> ones. It discusses issues caused by making the system completely >>> Free. >>> For explanation on technical details of the system look at >>> [[a:FAQ|Arch >>> FAQ]]. >>> >>> == How to help == >>> >>> Parabola is made by volunteers. >>> >>> '''See our [[How to help]] page for things you can do.''' >>> >>> [[File:Gnu01-mascot-logo+parabola-logo 100ppi.png]] >> +1 > > +1 +1 From rms at gnu.org Wed Jun 22 06:36:23 2016 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 02:36:23 -0400 Subject: [Dev] [Fwd: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] [GNU-linux-libre] [consensus][due: 2016-06-13]: New version for Parabola Social Contract] In-Reply-To: <1466386620.8514.41.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> (message from Adonay Felipe Nogueira on Sun, 19 Jun 2016 22:37:00 -0300) References: <1466386620.8514.41.camel@adfeno-VPCEG17FB> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] No recording was made in Stockholm, it appears. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. From nobody at parabola.nu Wed Jun 22 13:22:29 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 13:22:29 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [icecat] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160622132229.1512.97313@parabola.nu> alessi at robertalessi.net wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * icecat 38.8.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat/ * icecat 38.8.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat/ * icecat-debug 38.8.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat-debug/ * icecat-debug 38.8.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat-debug/ The user provided the following additional text: Needs to be recompiled with the latest hunspell libraries. Thanks! From emulatorman at riseup.net Wed Jun 22 13:20:00 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:20:00 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [icecat] marked out-of-date In-Reply-To: <20160622132229.1512.97313@parabola.nu> References: <20160622132229.1512.97313@parabola.nu> Message-ID: On 06/22/2016 10:22 AM, Parabola Website Notification wrote: > alessi at robertalessi.net wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: > > > * icecat 38.8.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat/ > * icecat 38.8.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat/ > * icecat-debug 38.8.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat-debug/ > * icecat-debug 38.8.0_gnu1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat-debug/ > > > The user provided the following additional text: > > Needs to be recompiled with the latest hunspell libraries. Thanks! Thanks for let us know, now i'm on it :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Wed Jun 22 15:19:32 2016 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 12:19:32 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) In-Reply-To: <1466553721.2589.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <8259a57d-5bf2-9d81-6e1f-5e037d398109@riseup.net> <11bf7c1f-ab54-8877-571f-df46a232ad2e@riseup.net> <1466553721.2589.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <87ziqdntdn.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Isaac David writes: >>>> [[File:Gnu01-mascot-logo+parabola-logo 100ppi.png]] >>> +1 >> >> +1 > > +1 +1 tip: make a mediawiki template for terms and concepts, for instance, an arch template would contain this (put it on /Template:ArchName): [[Arch_Naming_Discussion|Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution]] and when you use it on another article, like this: It is based on the packages of the {{ArchName}} and possibly other Arch-based systems... will be replaced by "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)" with a link to an article explaining the naming discussion we just had. it has the plus that if we later on decide to name Arch any other way, the change is only made on the template an is immediately reflected on every article :) -- P) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Wed Jun 22 17:20:42 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 14:20:42 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) In-Reply-To: <1466553721.2589.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <8259a57d-5bf2-9d81-6e1f-5e037d398109@riseup.net> <11bf7c1f-ab54-8877-571f-df46a232ad2e@riseup.net> <1466553721.2589.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <01d625e6-70cc-a8f5-3553-40d0aa3558fd@riseup.net> On 06/21/2016 09:02 PM, Isaac David wrote: > > > Le dim. 19 juin 2016 ? 19:37, Andr? Silva a > ?crit : >> On 06/19/2016 08:51 PM, coadde wrote: >>> On 06/19/2016 09:31 AM, Florencia Diaz wrote: >>>> It is my proposal for Main page: >>>> >>>> >>>> ######################################################################## >>>> >>>> >>>> TEXT >>>> >>>> >>>> ######################################################################## >>>> >>>> >>>> Welcome to the Parabola wiki! >>>> >>>> For a list of articles in this wiki check the Table of Contents. >>>> >>>> What is Parabola? >>>> >>>> Parabola is a Free Software and Free Culture project aiming to >>>> provide a >>>> fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux distribution called Parabola >>>> GNU/Linux-libre. It is based on the packages of the Arch (the >>>> GNU/Linux >>>> distribution) and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages >>>> optimized for i686, x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep its >>>> package and management tools simple. The primary goal is to give the >>>> user complete control over their system with 100% Free Software and >>>> Free >>>> Culture. Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is listed by the Free Software >>>> Foundation as a fully Free Software distribution. >>>> >>>> Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, >>>> code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. >>>> >>>> Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold >>>> into >>>> whatever kind of system you're building. >>>> >>>> You can find us on #parabola or mailing list. >>>> >>>> General documentation >>>> >>>> The Installation Guide will walk you through the process of >>>> downloading >>>> an ISO from our Repositories and installing Parabola >>>> GNU/Linux-libre on >>>> your system. We have separate installation instructions for the MIPS >>>> (discontinued) and ARM v7 architectures. >>>> >>>> If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to >>>> Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to >>>> use its >>>> repositories. See the Migration guides for x86 and ARM v7 >>>> architectures >>>> for instructions. >>>> >>>> Be sure to take a look at the Parabola Social Contract, it guides >>>> us in >>>> all we do. >>>> >>>> FAQ >>>> >>>> Our frequently asked questions is to provide answers to questions >>>> often >>>> asked by users who moved to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre from the >>>> GNU/Linux >>>> distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux ones. It discusses >>>> issues caused by making the system completely Free. For explanation on >>>> technical details of the system look at Arch FAQ. >>>> >>>> >>>> ####################################################################### >>>> >>>> Source for Parabola Wiki >>>> >>>> >>>> ####################################################################### >>>> >>>> {{i18n|Main_Page}} __NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__ >>>> >>>> Welcome to the '''[https://parabola.nu Parabola] wiki'''! >>>> >>>> For a list of articles in this wiki check the [[Table of Contents]]. >>>> >>>> == What is '''Parabola'''? == >>>> >>>> '''Parabola''' is a '''[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html >>>> Free >>>> Software]''' and '''[http://freedomdefined.org/Definition Free >>>> Culture] >>>> project aiming to provide a fully Free as in freedom GNU/Linux >>>> distribution called '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre'''. It is based on the >>>> packages of the [http://archlinux.org Arch (the GNU/Linux >>>> distribution)] >>>> and possibly other Arch-based systems, with packages optimized for >>>> i686, >>>> x86_64, and armv7h CPUs. Parabola aims to keep its package and >>>> management tools simple. The primary goal is to give the user complete >>>> control over their system with 100% Free Software and Free Culture. >>>> '''Parabola GNU/Linux-libre''' is listed by the [http://www.fsf.org/ >>>> Free Software Foundation] as a fully Free Software distribution. >>>> >>>> Development is focused on a balance of simplicity, elegance, >>>> code-correctness and bleeding edge Free Software. >>>> >>>> Its lightweight and simple design makes it easy to extend and mold >>>> into >>>> whatever kind of system you're building. >>>> >>>> You can find us on {{irc}} or >>>> [http://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo >>>> mailing list]. >>>> >>>> === General documentation === >>>> >>>> The [[Installation Guide]] will walk you through the process of >>>> downloading an ISO from our [[Repositories]] and installing Parabola >>>> GNU/Linux-libre on your system. We have separate installation >>>> instructions for the [[MIPS Installation|MIPS]] >>>> >>>> ([https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-support-for-mips64el-discontinued/ >>>> >>>> discontinued]) and [[ARM Installation Guide|ARM v7]] architectures. >>>> >>>> If you are running the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch, migrating to >>>> Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is as simple as reconfiguring pacman to >>>> use its >>>> repositories. See the Migration guides for [[Migration From Arch (the >>>> GNU/Linux distribution)|x86]] and [[Migration from Arch ARM (the >>>> GNU/Linux distribution)|ARM v7]] for instructions. >>>> >>>> Be sure to take a look at the [[Parabola Social Contract]], it >>>> guides us >>>> in all we do. >>>> >>>> === FAQ === >>>> >>>> Our [[FAQ|frequently asked questions]] is to provide answers to >>>> questions often asked by users who moved to Parabola GNU/Linux-libre >>>> from the GNU/Linux distribution of Arch and other nonfree GNU/Linux >>>> ones. It discusses issues caused by making the system completely Free. >>>> For explanation on technical details of the system look at >>>> [[a:FAQ|Arch >>>> FAQ]]. >>>> >>>> == How to help == >>>> >>>> Parabola is made by volunteers. >>>> >>>> '''See our [[How to help]] page for things you can do.''' >>>> >>>> [[File:Gnu01-mascot-logo+parabola-logo 100ppi.png]] >>> +1 >> >> +1 > > +1 Now, i paid attention there is a 'nonfree' in the proposal. I think we should use 'non-Free' instead of 'nonfree' to be based on the new Social Contract version model too [0] [0] https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_Social_Contract -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Wed Jun 22 17:22:59 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 14:22:59 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) In-Reply-To: <87ziqdntdn.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <8259a57d-5bf2-9d81-6e1f-5e037d398109@riseup.net> <11bf7c1f-ab54-8877-571f-df46a232ad2e@riseup.net> <1466553721.2589.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <87ziqdntdn.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: On 06/22/2016 12:19 PM, fauno wrote: > Isaac David writes: >>>>> [[File:Gnu01-mascot-logo+parabola-logo 100ppi.png]] >>>> +1 >>> >>> +1 >> >> +1 > > +1 > > tip: make a mediawiki template for terms and concepts, for instance, an > arch template would contain this (put it on /Template:ArchName): > > [[Arch_Naming_Discussion|Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution]] > > and when you use it on another article, like this: > > It is based on the packages of the {{ArchName}} and possibly other > Arch-based systems... > > will be replaced by "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)" with a link to > an article explaining the naming discussion we just had. it has the > plus that if we later on decide to name Arch any other way, the change > is only made on the template an is immediately reflected on every > article :) +1 I agree! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Wed Jun 22 18:54:37 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 15:54:37 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [consensus][due: 2016-06-24]: New version for Main Page (Parabola Wiki) In-Reply-To: References: <8259a57d-5bf2-9d81-6e1f-5e037d398109@riseup.net> <11bf7c1f-ab54-8877-571f-df46a232ad2e@riseup.net> <1466553721.2589.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <87ziqdntdn.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <0b2b49de-64d2-943a-066c-d415c0c4e033@riseup.net> On 06/22/2016 02:22 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 06/22/2016 12:19 PM, fauno wrote: >> Isaac David writes: >>>>>> [[File:Gnu01-mascot-logo+parabola-logo 100ppi.png]] >>>>> +1 >>>> >>>> +1 >>> >>> +1 >> >> +1 >> >> tip: make a mediawiki template for terms and concepts, for instance, an >> arch template would contain this (put it on /Template:ArchName): >> >> [[Arch_Naming_Discussion|Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution]] >> >> and when you use it on another article, like this: >> >> It is based on the packages of the {{ArchName}} and possibly other >> Arch-based systems... >> >> will be replaced by "Arch (the GNU/Linux distribution)" with a link to >> an article explaining the naming discussion we just had. it has the >> plus that if we later on decide to name Arch any other way, the change >> is only made on the template an is immediately reflected on every >> article :) > > +1 I agree! I created 2 templates for the GNU/Linux distros of Arch [0] and Arch ARM [1] with a link to the same article [2]. Could you put something about the naming discussion we just had in that article [2]? [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Template:ArchName [1]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Template:ArchARMName [2]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/index.php?title=Arch_Naming_Discussion&action=edit&redlink=1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Fri Jun 24 09:31:34 2016 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 06:31:34 -0300 Subject: [Dev] =?utf-8?q?Publica=C3=A7=C3=A3o_do_FISL_no_site_do_Parabola?= Message-ID: <0822d04e-455b-fc93-5fde-0714b9db031f@riseup.net> Prezado Paulo Henrique Santana: Gostaria de avisar-lhe que j? temos a nossa publica??o da participa??o da nossa distribui??o Parabola GNU/Linux-libre no evento do FISL17 [0] para a convocat?ria de maiores participantes para o evento. Sem mais, abra?os: Andr? Silva. [0]:https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-will-take-part-in-fisl17/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Sat Jun 25 19:58:39 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:58:39 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre-grsec] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160625195839.1745.34772@parabola.nu> la at la.la wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * linux-libre-grsec 4.5.7_gnu.201606080852-2 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-grsec/ * linux-libre-grsec 4.5.7_gnu.201606080852-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-grsec/ * linux-libre-grsec 4.5.7_gnu.201606080852-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-grsec/ * linux-libre-grsec-docs 4.5.7_gnu.201606080852-2 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-grsec-docs/ * linux-libre-grsec-docs 4.5.7_gnu.201606080852-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-grsec-docs/ * linux-libre-grsec-docs 4.5.7_gnu.201606080852-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-grsec-docs/ * linux-libre-grsec-headers 4.5.7_gnu.201606080852-2 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-grsec-headers/ * linux-libre-grsec-headers 4.5.7_gnu.201606080852-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-grsec-headers/ * linux-libre-grsec-headers 4.5.7_gnu.201606080852-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-grsec-headers/ The user provided the following additional text: I get kernel panic upon network connection From nobody at parabola.nu Sat Jun 25 22:00:57 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 22:00:57 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160625220057.1745.98135@parabola.nu> jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * linux-libre 4.6.2_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre/ * linux-libre 4.6.2_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre/ * linux-libre 4.6.2_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre/ * linux-libre-docs 4.6.2_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-docs/ * linux-libre-docs 4.6.2_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-docs/ * linux-libre-docs 4.6.2_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-docs/ * linux-libre-headers 4.6.2_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-headers/ * linux-libre-headers 4.6.2_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-headers/ * linux-libre-headers 4.6.2_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-headers/ The user provided the following additional text: Updated upstream to 4.6.3 From nobody at parabola.nu Sat Jun 25 22:01:21 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 22:01:21 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre-lts] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160625220121.1744.22839@parabola.nu> jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * linux-libre-lts 4.4.13_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts/ * linux-libre-lts 4.4.13_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts/ * linux-libre-lts 4.4.13_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts/ * linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.13_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-docs/ * linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.13_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-docs/ * linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.13_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-docs/ * linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.13_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-headers/ * linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.13_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-headers/ * linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.13_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-headers/ The user provided the following additional text: Updated upstream to 4.4.14 From nobody at parabola.nu Mon Jun 27 22:14:24 2016 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:14:24 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [pumpa-qt5] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20160627221424.1745.81850@parabola.nu> substruction at riseup.net wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * pumpa-l10n 0.9-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/pumpa-l10n/ * pumpa-l10n 0.9-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/pumpa-l10n/ * pumpa-qt4 0.9-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/pumpa-qt4/ * pumpa-qt4 0.9-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/pumpa-qt4/ * pumpa-qt5 0.9-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/pumpa-qt5/ * pumpa-qt5 0.9-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/pumpa-qt5/ The user provided the following additional text: Sazius released another version in January. From lkcl at lkcl.net Wed Jun 29 03:58:39 2016 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:58:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] status of icecat for armv7h? References: <1466361769.2956.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: Isaac David writes: > > Le dim. 19 juin 2016 ? 8:57, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton > lkcl.net> a ?crit : > > [please cc me on replies as i subscribe "nomail" to lists, thanks] > > > > folks hi what's the status of icecat for armv7h? it's not listed as > > an available package for installation, although a ton of stuff that > > *depends* on it is, such as all the language packs, the ublock plugin > > etc. > > > > l. > > > > --- > > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: > > https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > Greetings Luke, > > Neither Icecat nor our free version of Iceweasel is available > for armv7h. I have tried several times and at some point I > managed to build iceweasel, but it soon became out of date > and had to be removed from the repos after dependencies > stopped being satisfiable. Firefox has a very sensitive > buildprocess to say the least. i was the lead developer behind pyjamas-desktop, i had 3 web browser engines to maintain, and, at one point due to the mozilla foundation beginning to focus on speed-speed-speed to the pathological exclusion of all other considerations (in direct violation of their own charter, it has to be pointed out), i had to look at maintaining a fork of the firefox xulrunner engine at one point. it may surprise you to learn that i decided *not* to do that... :) so yeah, i know where you're coming from. i had the advantage of working off of debian at the time so could do "apt-get build-dep ..." but i *still* decided that it would be, on my own, completely insane to maintain a fork of xulrunner. i'll take a look at seamonkey. i know that the majority of other browsers in the parabola repo are webkit-based: webkit, as maintained by apple, has its own set of... uhh... problems shall we say. the apple development team is dominated by a technical bully by the name of "mark rowe". his expertise leaves the rest of the team in a difficult position of not being able to call him out on the way that he dominates outsiders (and external contributions). however after some considerable time even google got the message and decided to fork the *entire* webkit codebase: this effort became known as "blink". i helped them (behind the scenes) to steer them towards getting decent well-designed javascript bindings (which is extremely difficult to do properly, it requires about 12 different simultaneous technical programming language skillsets), and that's now up and running and stable. so, good for them. basically what i'm saying, is, do consider putting chromium into the parabola repository (if it isn't being considered already?) and i know that the debian team has already done the patches needed to remove the advertising and privacy-violating features that are considered to be acceptable by google, so *that* won't be a huge effort either. alright back to it, btw the crowdfunding's launching this evening http://crowdsupply.com/eoma68 i'll be expanding on the software that's installed over the next few weeks but it basically will go out the door with parabola gnu/linux-libre as the major default OS, we'll be able to reach a lot of FSF supporters as a result. so, yeah. thank you to everyone who's worked on parabola-arm. l. From koz.ross at retro-freedom.nz Wed Jun 29 23:29:04 2016 From: koz.ross at retro-freedom.nz (Koz Ross) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:29:04 +1200 Subject: [Dev] EOMA68 announcement as requested by fauno in #parabola Message-ID: <20160629232902.GB30097@Sebastian> Well, it seems I missed something. But anyway, fauno requested an announcement, and it's attached to this. Hopefully it's OK. -- Koz Ross www.retro-freedom.nz If you aren't using GPG, you should be! https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en. Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html for why. Proud member of the Open Wireless Movement. Find out more at https://openwireless.org/ Proud member of Peers, at http://peers.community/ . We grow freedom. -------------- next part -------------- # New libre hardware crowdfunding project - with Parabola preinstalled! The [EOMA68][1] is a new crowdfunding project on CrowdSupply, aiming to create a computer which: * Respects your freedom * Is easy to repair yourself * Is eco-friendly * Is easily upgradeable * Doesn't cost the Earth (literally *and* figuratively!) As part of this, the computers it provides will have *pre-installed* Parabola GNU/Linux-libre. This is a very exciting prospect - a computer that you can repair yourself and is libre hardware (very customizable on the *hardware* end), combined with the most powerful, flexible and adaptable libre OS (very customizable on the *software* end). This is *truly* a project that deserves your money - they are committed to the libre cause (they're seeking RYF certification!), and the crowdfunding project needs money to succeed. If ever there was a time to donate, that time is now. Personally, I think these machines make *great* microservers, similarly to the Beaglebone Black, but more capable and more eco-friendly - and this is certainly how I will be using mine. Plus, their cases are made of *wood*. What's not to love? [1]: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: