From aurelien at hackers.camp  Fri Apr  1 09:07:43 2016
From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:07:43 +0200
Subject: [Dev] The Parallel/Multihost SSH problem
Message-ID: <87h9flely8.fsf@hackers.camp>


Hello Libreplanet and dev of distro!

Writting a tool for heterogeneous LAN and Network, I discover that our
distros have not the same or 0 package for Parallel/Multihost SSH
actions.

All have ClusterSHH, but, that tools is not a wrapper, it need to open
windows for actions.

Here is the situation:
Trisquel should have TakTuk from Debian repo
Freedora have MUSSH (from RedHat)
Parabola have 0 (PSSH is buggy and no more maintain) so 0
Guix have 0

Kind regards


-- 
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
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From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  1 17:20:51 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hyperbola)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 17:20:51 +0000
Subject: [Dev] please add the Main Page and TOC to [[category:non-English]]
	in wiki
Message-ID: <ndmalj$v9t$1@ger.gmane.org>

Can someone please add the Main Page and TOC to

category:non-English


so people find their native pages real quick? t.y.


https://wiki.parabola.nu/Talk:Main_Page#Please_categorize_the_landing_page



From GNUtoo at no-log.org  Sat Apr  2 02:51:20 2016
From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 04:51:20 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org>
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net> <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>
 <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20160402045120.6bab70d1@top-laptop>

On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 09:09:08 -0400
Luke <g4jc at openmailbox.org> wrote:

> I'd like to weigh in by mentioning there are still many uses for
> emulators which people think should be removed.
> 
> For example, there are still GPL Windows programs that ONLY work on
> Windows. There is no reason WINE would need to be removed if the
> purpose is to learn how to make fully free Windows programs. These
> programs can one day run on a free OS, such as ReactOS.
> http://osswin.sourceforge.net/
The same comment than before also applies to wine,
let's document at least one free software that can be built and run
100% free with wine.

> The same goes for DosBox and FreeDOS where there is still a small
> community learning and improving DOS using fully free software.
same here.

> It is actually more ethical and generally more quality to play older
> games you own on a fully free emulator than it is your own console
> which does not contain a fully free distro. In the case of PSP and
> PSX, it is now possible to play the games fully free without a
> non-free bios.
It is also probably more ethical to run a non-free operating system to
play games on it than it is to uses devices that are locked down so
badly that, in order to run free software on it, you would need to
break its security, and in some jurisdictions, probably the law too.
However that doesn't make running a non-free operating system ethical.

> Regarding Gnash, yes, there are fully free Flash authoring tools and
> projects too:
> http://www.flashmagazine.com/news/detail/open_source_and_free_development_tools_for_flash/
> 
> Before we start removing access to free software, we should consider
> the unintended consequences.
We'd rather document how to run 100% free software on virtual machines.

> - The GNU/Linux kernel hacker never tried to running GNU/Linux on the
> PS2, because he didn't have access to a fully free emulator to do his
> work.
This is a good point, however I find it easier just to document how to
run 100% free software.

> In each scenario, it is the user that uses a tool for good or evil. We
> should not be thought police on how they intend or do not intend to
> use their software by removing access to the tools. I do agree that
> there should be a warning that these programs may offer access to
> non-free software, but it is up to the user on how they intend to act
> on that statement.
No need to warn, just document how to compile and run 100% free
software.
That practically speaking will change the goal of such program.

Denis.
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From GNUtoo at no-log.org  Sat Apr  2 03:05:40 2016
From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 05:05:40 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <56FBEED8.8060502@gmail.com>
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net> <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>
 <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org> <87lh50ayx6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <56FBEED8.8060502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160402050540.4b112f6a@top-laptop>

On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 16:20:56 +0100
Josh Branning <lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Upsides:
> * Emulators allow otherwise partially-free programs to run freely on
> a machine.
It's rather that some virtual machines would permit to run 100% free
programs.
I probably assumed (wrongly) that running a non-free software on bare
hardware and on an emulator gave the same freedoms.
I'm not a game console expert, so I've some questions:
1) Are there consoles that gives full hardware control to the
   games? If so is there any other non-free software required before
   that? What is the difference between emulators and real hardware in
   that context?
2) Does that change with the consoles running a full blown OS all the
   time. Which consoles fits into that category?

> * Where all the programs for the platform are non-free, emulators can
> be viewed as a kind of development kit for the platform architecture, 
> allowing new free software to be created for that machine.
That might not be a strong enough incentive to package such emulators,
especially if there is no documentation to explain the user how to use
it. gcc is for instance documented well enough for developers to be
able to actually use it. Following the (emulator) documentation would
guide the developer toward a working test program, like a hello world.

> * Where all the programs for the platform are non-free, emulators
> still allow for reverse engineering of non-free programs.
That also applies to binary nvidia drivers for instance.
Such criteria applies to all non-free software.

> * Where all the programs are non-free, people may be able to run the 
> proprietary program in a freer manner than they could do otherwise, 
> which still may be a small step to complete freedom.
That also applies to all non-free programs, like flash for instance.

> Downside:
> * People may use the emulator to run non-free programs.
This is not the point. You can also use gcc, java, python and so on to
do the same, however none of theses steer users towards non-free
programs.

Denis.
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From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de  Sat Apr  2 07:10:22 2016
From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 09:10:22 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <20160402050540.4b112f6a@top-laptop>
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net> <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>
 <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org> <87lh50ayx6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <56FBEED8.8060502@gmail.com> <20160402050540.4b112f6a@top-laptop>
Message-ID: <56FF705E.6010607@pelzflorian.de>

Banning free emulators would make Parabola's criteria more strict than
the FSDG. Then again, non-free non-functional data like game art is also
blacklisted at least sometimes.

On 04/02/2016 05:05 AM, Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli wrote:
>> * Where all the programs for the platform are non-free, emulators can
>> > be viewed as a kind of development kit for the platform architecture, 
>> > allowing new free software to be created for that machine.
> That might not be a strong enough incentive to package such emulators,
> especially if there is no documentation to explain the user how to use
> it. gcc is for instance documented well enough for developers to be
> able to actually use it. Following the (emulator) documentation would
> guide the developer toward a working test program, like a hello world.
> 

Porting free software to non-free operating systems is considered nice
and not generally discouraged on [1], so I think this is a strong enough
incentive.

I suppose an emulator can help with porting even if porting is not yet
easy and well-documented.

[1] https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/System-Portability.html


From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  2 11:59:48 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hyperbola)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 11:59:48 +0000
Subject: [Dev] bug list against linux-libre-lts-knock in wiki
Message-ID: <ndoc7k$482$1@ger.gmane.org>


https://wiki.parabola.nu/Kernel_native_compilation#Errors


LTS kernel sources not in perfect shape yet.

Never mind, we'll stay on top of it...



From nobody at parabola.nu  Sat Apr  2 21:56:18 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:56:18 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [qtile] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160402215618.1227.59787@parabola.nu>

jmi2k at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* qtile 0.10.3-1 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/qtile/


The user provided the following additional text:

As you can see in their webpage, the current version is 0.10.5, released on March. It includes a change that makes it work with Python 3.5 (as they dropped support to Python 3.3), allowing it to be executed in current Parabola installations (I had to manually edit some files in the current version to get it working)



From nobody at parabola.nu  Sun Apr  3 19:50:18 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 19:50:18 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [python-gnusrss] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160403195018.616.90374@parabola.nu>

drymer at autistici.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* python-gnusrss 0.2.1.10-1 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/python-gnusrss/


The user provided the following additional text:

Nothing. 



From sokkomb at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  4 10:50:01 2016
From: sokkomb at yahoo.com (hyperbola)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 10:50:01 +0000
Subject: [Dev] bug list against linux-libre-lts-knock in wiki
In-Reply-To: <ndoc7k$482$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndoc7k$482$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ndtgsp$ms4$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 02.04.2016 11:59, hyperbola wrote:

> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Kernel_native_compilation#Errors
>
>
> LTS kernel sources not in perfect shape yet.


I wonder whether there is actually any kernel in Parabola,
which one can run OK "right out of the box" using the abs  build system.

so far, mkinitcpio does not find the crucial modules in /usr/lib

after
make modules_install





From GNUtoo at no-log.org  Tue Apr  5 15:42:33 2016
From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:42:33 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [GNU-linux-libre] MAME
In-Reply-To: <56FF705E.6010607@pelzflorian.de>
References: <1459275835.2270.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info>
 <56FAE923.1000809@riseup.net> <56FB4E97.6090603@riseup.net>
 <56FBCFF4.2090502@openmailbox.org> <87lh50ayx6.fsf@hackers.camp>
 <56FBEED8.8060502@gmail.com> <20160402050540.4b112f6a@top-laptop>
 <56FF705E.6010607@pelzflorian.de>
Message-ID: <20160405174233.5470160c@top-laptop>

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 09:10:22 +0200
Florian Pelz <pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de> wrote:

> Banning free emulators would make Parabola's criteria more strict than
> the FSDG. Then again, non-free non-functional data like game art is
> also blacklisted at least sometimes.
I'm rather suggesting to document one use case that is 100%
free(compilation and runtime) and that works as a way to fix that issue.

Denis.
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Wed Apr  6 12:23:27 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:23:27 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: [arch-dev-public] vivaldi browser in community
Message-ID: <87r3ejx6ww.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>


fyi

-- 
http://utopia.partidopirata.com.ar/

-------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 09:27:50 -1000
From: Gaetan Bisson <bisson at archlinux.org>
Subject: Re: [arch-dev-public] vivaldi browser in community

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From nobody at parabola.nu  Thu Apr  7 14:08:11 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:08:11 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel-theme-adwaita] marked
	out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160407140811.2451.68920@parabola.nu>

vicente at solognu.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* iceweasel-theme-adwaita 42.1-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-theme-adwaita/


The user provided the following additional text:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/adwaita/ 45.1



From nobody at parabola.nu  Thu Apr  7 19:28:11 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:28:11 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre-lts] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160407192811.1552.43368@parabola.nu>

jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* linux-libre-lts 4.1.20_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts/
* linux-libre-lts 4.1.20_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts/
* linux-libre-lts 4.1.20_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts/
* linux-libre-lts-docs 4.1.20_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-docs/
* linux-libre-lts-docs 4.1.20_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-docs/
* linux-libre-lts-docs 4.1.20_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-docs/
* linux-libre-lts-headers 4.1.20_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-headers/
* linux-libre-lts-headers 4.1.20_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-headers/
* linux-libre-lts-headers 4.1.20_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-headers/


The user provided the following additional text:

https://www.kernel.org/ updated upstream



From nobody at parabola.nu  Thu Apr  7 20:01:39 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:01:39 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [qupzilla] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160407200139.2187.15878@parabola.nu>

e_y_e at tuta.io wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* qupzilla 1.8.9-2.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/qupzilla/
* qupzilla 1.8.9-2.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/qupzilla/
* qupzilla 1.8.9-2.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/qupzilla/
* qupzilla-qt4 1.8.9-2.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/qupzilla-qt4/
* qupzilla-qt4 1.8.9-2.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/qupzilla-qt4/
* qupzilla-qt4 1.8.9-2.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/qupzilla-qt4/


The user provided the following additional text:

https://github.com/QupZilla/qupzilla/releases/tag/v2.0.0



From alt.yu-dzp55qd at yopmail.com  Fri Apr  8 10:14:23 2016
From: alt.yu-dzp55qd at yopmail.com (nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.selinux)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:14:23 +0000
Subject: [Dev] bug list against linux-libre-lts-knock in wiki
In-Reply-To: <ndtgsp$ms4$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <ndoc7k$482$1@ger.gmane.org> <ndtgsp$ms4$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ne809v$qk6$1@ger.gmane.org>

> On 02.04.2016 11:59, hyperbola wrote:
>
>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Kernel_native_compilation#Errors

this depmod problem has lasted quite a while, yes?



From alt.yu-dzp55qd at yopmail.com  Fri Apr  8 10:31:38 2016
From: alt.yu-dzp55qd at yopmail.com (Mount Para)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:31:38 +0000
Subject: [Dev] vivaldi browser
In-Reply-To: <87r3ejx6ww.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <87r3ejx6ww.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <ne81ab$68c$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 06.04.2016 12:23, fauno wrote:
>>> Vivaldi is a chromium based browser, and it is different from most other
>>> browser in the sense that it offers a lot more UI customizability and
>>> some unique features not found in other browsers.



why would anyone use such stuff?  ;-)



From GNUtoo at no-log.org  Sat Apr  9 08:37:48 2016
From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:37:48 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible builds from ARCH
Message-ID: <20160409103748.2f855151@top-laptop>

Hi,

I noticed that arch now has a page at reproducible-builds.org:
https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/archlinux/archlinux.html

However every single packages fails, including simple shell scripts like
keychain which has only 2 files:
% pacman -Q -l keychain
[...]
keychain /usr/bin/keychain
[...]
keychain /usr/share/man/man1/keychain.1.gz

% file /usr/bin/keychain
/usr/bin/keychain: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable, with
escape sequences

Comparing the package content shows some issue:
- .PKGINFO encodes the build date
- .BUILDINFO encodes all the system's packages at build time.
- .MTREE also encodes time.  

Also, makepkg (available in the pacman package) uses bsdtar, given the
issues above, I could not test if it worked.

I remember from a previous conversation on this list that uploaders
are supposed to use a chroot to build the package.

- Is there any tool that automatize building with the chroot? What
  uploaders typically build packages?
- Where is the work on making arch reproducible going on? Do they have
  mailing list specially for it? or should patches be sent directly to
  the given tool (like pacman).

Denis.
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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Sat Apr  9 12:32:21 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 09:32:21 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible builds from ARCH
In-Reply-To: <20160409103748.2f855151@top-laptop>
References: <20160409103748.2f855151@top-laptop>
Message-ID: <87r3eft12i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli <GNUtoo at no-log.org> writes:
> - Is there any tool that automatize building with the chroot? What
>   uploaders typically build packages?

we use libretools, check them out!

> - Where is the work on making arch reproducible going on? Do they have
>   mailing list specially for it? or should patches be sent directly to
>   the given tool (like pacman).

not sure, afaict there was just an arch dev doing some work on this and
he posted his findings on arch-dev-public.

-- 
.o?)
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From quiliro at riseup.net  Sat Apr  9 17:03:26 2016
From: quiliro at riseup.net (Quilro Ordonez)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 12:03:26 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible builds from ARCH
In-Reply-To: <87r3eft12i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
References: <20160409103748.2f855151@top-laptop>
 <87r3eft12i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
Message-ID: <e29269e5cd134d989d5b54d62cdb437a@riseup.net>

How about including Guix package manager?

https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/Package-Management.html


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Sat Apr  9 17:30:45 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 14:30:45 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Reproducible builds from ARCH
In-Reply-To: <e29269e5cd134d989d5b54d62cdb437a@riseup.net>
References: <20160409103748.2f855151@top-laptop>
 <87r3eft12i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>
 <e29269e5cd134d989d5b54d62cdb437a@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <57093C45.8000305@riseup.net>

On 04/09/2016 02:03 PM, Quilro Ordonez wrote:
> How about including Guix package manager?

guix has been included [0]

[0]:https://www.parabola.nu/packages/pcr/x86_64/guix/

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From nobody at parabola.nu  Sun Apr 10 17:28:18 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:28:18 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160410172818.1368.34104@parabola.nu>

user at localhost wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* iceweasel 1:45.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel/
* iceweasel 1:45.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel/
* iceweasel-debug 1:45.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel-debug/
* iceweasel-debug 1:45.0.1.deb1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel-debug/


The user provided the following additional text:

:: iceweasel: installing icu (57.1-1) breaks dependency 'icu=56.1'



From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 12 18:56:23 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 18:56:23 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160412185623.1461.20240@parabola.nu>

jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* linux-libre 4.4.6_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre/
* linux-libre 4.4.6_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre/
* linux-libre 4.4.6_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre/
* linux-libre-docs 4.4.6_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-docs/
* linux-libre-docs 4.4.6_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-docs/
* linux-libre-docs 4.4.6_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-docs/
* linux-libre-headers 4.4.6_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-headers/
* linux-libre-headers 4.4.6_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-headers/
* linux-libre-headers 4.4.6_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-headers/


The user provided the following additional text:

Upstream updated https://kernel.org/



From nobody at parabola.nu  Sat Apr 16 15:47:36 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 15:47:36 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [clementine] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160416154736.787.15688@parabola.nu>

reg_+parabola at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* clementine 1.2.3-10.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/clementine/
* clementine 1.2.3-10.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/clementine/
* clementine 1.2.3-10.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/clementine/


The user provided the following additional text:

1.3.0 is out: https://www.clementine-player.org/
The Arch package is already updated: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/clementine/



From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net  Mon Apr 18 04:47:40 2016
From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 00:47:40 -0400
Subject: [Dev] libretools 20160418 release announcement
Message-ID: <871t63bk0j.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>

I just released libretools 20160418 to [libre], and pushed the source
tarball to <https://repo.parabola.nu/other/libretools/>.

This is mostly a bugfix release.  I know that everyone was looking
forward to being able to cross-compile for ARM from x86 in this
release.  Unfortunately, this is blocked by issue #988 (packaging a
static version of QEMU for x86[1]).  However, While working on it, I'd
accumulated enough fixes and changes that I decided getting a release
out would be a good thing.

In particular, librechroot's new `-A` flag obviates the "Building
32-bit packages on a 64-bit system" wiki page[2].

Changes from 20160208 to 20160418:
 * librechroot:
   * Learn the `-A` flag to set the architecture of a chroot.
   * Print an error instead of deadlocking when trying to sync a copy
     with itself.
   * Fix a bug where junk mounts could be left over if interrupted
     during the creation of a chroot.
 * libredbdiff: Work with plain extra/expac.
 * libreblacklist: Fix internationalization.
 * librefetch: Support the SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH standard[3].
 * libremessages: Fix the `flag` function's handling of headings.
 * librexgettext: Fix handling of libremessages 'flag' function .
 * Documentation:
   * libremessages: Improve the man page.
   * librechroot: In the 'help' text, explain how the architecture is
     determined.
   * INSTALL: Update (as of 20160208 it had not reflected reality for
     some time).
   * HACKING: Improve the HACKING documentation for contributors.
 * Build system:
   * Various improvements from lukeshu-automake[3].
   * Error sensibly if the user misconfigures `config.mk:devtoolsdir`.
 * Packaging (pre-built Parabola package only):
   * The dependencies of [librelib] have been updated to reflect
     reality, in particular, it now has optdepends.

As a side note, now when running `librerelease`, the server will spew
out a bunch of errors from XBS.  As it has always been, errors and
warnings from XBS are totally ignorable.  Hopefully I will get this
fixed soon.

[1]: https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/988
[2]: https://wiki.parabola.nu/Building_32-bit_packages_on_a_64-bit_system
[3]: https://reproducible-builds.org/specs/source-date-epoch/
[4]: https://lukeshu.com/git/lukeshu-automake/

-- 
Happy hacking,
~ Luke Shumaker


From GNUtoo at no-log.org  Wed Apr 20 12:30:08 2016
From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 14:30:08 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [Libreboot] Operating System for Asus C201
In-Reply-To: <57138E46.4030901@mjbuckingham.co.uk>
References: <57138E46.4030901@mjbuckingham.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20160420143008.2f71dafb@top-laptop>

Hi,

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:23:18 +0100
Mike <mike at mjbuckingham.co.uk> wrote:

> I am now at the stage of installing an operating system on to the
> laptop and have a few questions that I would very much appreciate
> some help with before I begin:
Parabola has been ported to ARM.

I think it's much easier if you don't use device specific kernels, but
instead uses the mainline one.

If you have an x86 parabola install, you can easily bootstrap(with
pacstrap) an ARM installation from it.

The ARM version has mainline Linux.
With the linux-libre package, the image is in: /boot/vmlinuz-linux-libre

However you also need to load a dtb
from /boot/dtbs/linux-libre/rk3288-veyron-*.dtb
Unfortunately, I don't remember which one of theses is for the C201.

Background information:
-----------------------
On ARM, Linux now uses the devicetree to describe hardware.
It will describe all hardware that cannot be auto-detected such as the
CPU,
the serial ports etc. This is machine specific.

To boot, you need to load the Linux Image and the dtb file.

If your bootloader supports it (here it's part of libreboot) you should
use it to load both, else you have something called dtb-append in Linux.

dtb-append:
-----------
To use that, just add the dtb at the end of the zImage like that:
$ cat /boot/vmlinuz-linux-libre \
  /boot/dtbs/linux-libre/rk3288-veyron-<yourboard>.dtb \
  > /boot/zImage-appended.bin

This will produce a zImage-appended.bin that has the dtb.

Chromebook specific:
--------------------
The main difficulty here will be to make depthcharge (the libreboot
payload) load that zImage (and dtb).

With the stock boot firmware, the kernel has to be signed with a key to
be loaded by depthcharge.

Unfortunately I don't remember how the default boot fimrware and
libreboot differ with their security models, and I don't have a
chromebook to check.

Denis.
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From nicolasmaia at tutanota.com  Wed Apr 20 14:56:42 2016
From: nicolasmaia at tutanota.com (nicolasmaia at tutanota.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:56:42 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: Re: [Libreboot] Operating System for Asus C201
References: <57138E46.4030901@mjbuckingham.co.uk>
 <<57138E46.4030901@mjbuckingham.co.uk>> <20160418145716.GA3186@venu>
 <<20160418145716.GA3186@venu>>
 <CAMnfVe24a+hCAAiRHSJopftFjv9HTAqdtWX_Fm0_5AbWkmwsVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <<CAMnfVe24a+hCAAiRHSJopftFjv9HTAqdtWX_Fm0_5AbWkmwsVw@mail.gmail.com>>
 <20160419172900.GB1920@begut> <<20160419172900.GB1920@begut>>
 <20160420090328.GB26544@venu> <<20160420090328.GB26544@venu>>
 <1461159256.1150.65.camel@paulk.fr>
Message-ID: <KFoA4C6--3-0@tutanota.com>

FYI

Nicolas Maia
--
Enviado seguramente pelo Tutanota. Torne sua caixa de correio criptografada 
hoje mesmo!https://tutanota.com

Data: 20. Abr 2016 10:34
De: contact at paulk.fr
Para: daniel.tarrero at bluebrain.es, libreboot at nongnu.org
Assunto: Re: [Libreboot] Operating System for Asus C201


> Hey there, I'll respond to the various concerns and questions raised in 
> this
> thread, in no particular order. First off, I'm glad to see such interest 
> for the
> C201 Libreboot port!
>
> At this point, there are no distributions following the GNU Free System
> Distribution Guidelines (GNU FSDG) that support the C201 out of the box. 
> The
> first problem is that it's an ARM machine, and most GNU FSDG-compliant
> distributions don't support ARM. Only Parabola has ARM support at this 
> point.
> Some work would be needed to write up instructions regarding how to install
> Parabola on the C201. This is something I have been meaning to do, but 
> couldn't
> find the time to do it yet. However, writing instructions is not all that 
> is
> required. The device needs a kernel with specific drives for its hardware, 
> that
> are not integrated into Linus Torvald's version of Linux, the upstream 
> Linux
> kernel.
>
> Instead, CrOS systems use a downstream version of Linux, with changes for
> hardware support. The source code for it is available as part of the 
> ChromiumOS
> project and it can be rebuilt from source. Until the upstream kernel is 
> ready,
> this downstream kernel is the best candidate to get a working free system 
> on the
> device.
>
> One might be concerned about what comes with it, since it is a modified 
> version
> of the upstream kernel. I am not aware of any addition that would conflict 
> with
> users' privacy and security, but I have not checked extensively. Note that 
> the
> firmwares for Wi-Fi are not part of the kernel, but are out of the tree, as 
> far
> as I recall. Thus, this kernel could be deblobbed and packaged in Parabola, 
> to
> make the installation easier.
>
> Note that the kernel must be wrapped in a particular image format for the
> Depthcharge payload. This is to allow signature verification, a crucial 
> security
> feature. I do not intend to support anything else than Depthcharge in 
> Libreboot
> at this point. Actually, I think it is quite elegant and gets the job done
> nicely.
>
> Regarding my own setup, I have been using the device with Fedora since 
> Debian
> doesn't ship with llvmpipe (required for decent CPU-based graphics
> acceleration). Either way, once the kernel is ready, any GNU/Linux system 
> that
> has ARM support can be used on the device, with little adaptation needed in
> userspace. I will write up instructions for these systems too, probably on 
> my
> personal blog.
>
> I am not using the internal Wi-Fi chip, that requires a proprietary 
> firmware,
> but use an ath9k_htc USB dongle instead. I enabled that module when 
> building the
> kernel and it works normally.
>
> Aside from documenting the installation of GNU FSDG-approved systems and 
> others
> and improving the state of the Libreboot port (especially regarding the 
> support
> of security features), I'd also like to contribute to C201 support to the
> upstream Linux kernel. Alas, Libreboot is not the only project I'm 
> contributing
> to, far from it, and all of that takes time, especially when it all happens 
> on
> spare time.
>
> Cheers!
> --
> Paul Kocialkowski, low-level free software developer on embedded devices
>
> Website: > https://www.paulk.fr
> Coding blog: > https://code.paulk.fr
> Git repositories: > https://git.paulk.fr>  > https://git.code.paulk.fr
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From nobody at parabola.nu  Wed Apr 20 19:33:03 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:33:03 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160420193303.1609.80432@parabola.nu>

jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* linux-libre 4.5.1_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre/
* linux-libre 4.5.1_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre/
* linux-libre 4.5.1_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre/
* linux-libre-docs 4.5.1_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-docs/
* linux-libre-docs 4.5.1_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-docs/
* linux-libre-docs 4.5.1_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-docs/
* linux-libre-headers 4.5.1_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-headers/
* linux-libre-headers 4.5.1_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-headers/
* linux-libre-headers 4.5.1_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-headers/


The user provided the following additional text:

Upstream updated (4.5.2)



From nobody at parabola.nu  Wed Apr 20 19:33:39 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:33:39 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre-lts] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160420193339.1607.79914@parabola.nu>

jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* linux-libre-lts 4.1.21_gnu-1.1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts/
* linux-libre-lts 4.4.7_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts/
* linux-libre-lts 4.4.7_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts/
* linux-libre-lts-docs 4.1.21_gnu-1.1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-docs/
* linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.7_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-docs/
* linux-libre-lts-docs 4.4.7_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-docs/
* linux-libre-lts-headers 4.1.21_gnu-1.1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-lts-headers/
* linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.7_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-lts-headers/
* linux-libre-lts-headers 4.4.7_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-lts-headers/


The user provided the following additional text:

Upstream update (4.4.8)



From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 22 18:22:13 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 15:22:13 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Parabola at FISL17 confirmed!
Message-ID: <571A6BD5.4070601@riseup.net>

Guys, i received an email from Paulo Henrique Santana (FISL organizer)
that Parabola has been confirmed at FISL17 [0]. He sent to me our
official banner for the event [1] :)

Happy hacking!

[0]:http://softwarelivre.org/fisl17
[1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/fisl17/banner-emulatorman.png

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From fauno at endefensadelsl.org  Sun Apr 24 04:37:43 2016
From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 01:37:43 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Parabola at FISL17 confirmed!
In-Reply-To: <571A6BD5.4070601@riseup.net>
References: <571A6BD5.4070601@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <87inz7lizs.fsf@endefensadelsl.org>

Andr? Silva <emulatorman at riseup.net> writes:

> Guys, i received an email from Paulo Henrique Santana (FISL organizer)
> that Parabola has been confirmed at FISL17 [0]. He sent to me our
> official banner for the event [1] :)
>
> Happy hacking!
>
> [0]:http://softwarelivre.org/fisl17
> [1]:https://repo.parabola.nu/other/fisl17/banner-emulatorman.png

\o/

-- 
:D
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From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 26 16:27:32 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:27:32 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [blender-addon-mitsuba] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160426162732.655.15960@parabola.nu>

biserangeloff at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* blender-addon-mitsuba 0.3.0.61.v2.71-4 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/blender-addon-mitsuba/
* mitsuba 0.5.0.2030-6 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/mitsuba/
* mitsuba 0.5.0.2030-6 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/mitsuba/


The user provided the following additional text:

warning: cannot resolve "blender<15:2.72", a dependency of "blender-addon-mitsuba"



From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 26 16:27:47 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:27:47 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [blender-addon-ogre] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160426162747.656.60848@parabola.nu>

biserangeloff at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* blender-addon-ogre 0.6.0-7 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/blender-addon-ogre/


The user provided the following additional text:

warning: cannot resolve "blender<15:2.72", a dependency of "blender-addon-ogre"



From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 26 16:27:59 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:27:59 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [blender-addon-yafaray] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160426162759.656.94677@parabola.nu>

biserangeloff at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* blender-addon-yafaray 0.1.5.20140425.v2.71-3 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/blender-addon-yafaray/
* yafaray 0.1.5.20140508-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/yafaray/
* yafaray 0.1.5.20140508-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/yafaray/


The user provided the following additional text:

warning: cannot resolve "blender<15:2.72", a dependency of "blender-addon-yafaray"



From nobody at parabola.nu  Tue Apr 26 21:06:26 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:06:26 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel-noscript] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160426210626.656.64423@parabola.nu>

elcorreo at deshackra.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* iceweasel-noscript 2.6.9.37-1 [libre] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/any/iceweasel-noscript/


The user provided the following additional text:

2.9.0.11 is out



From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr 27 00:28:33 2016
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:28:33 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Sustainable Donations for Parabola Project
Message-ID: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org>

Hello,
It has come to my attention that some of our developers are now working
full-time on Parabola (and not getting paid enough to even pay the bills!).
We should come up with a plan to give these hard workers a minimum
living wage. The only way I see this possible will be a weekly or
monthly giving program, the other options such as KickStarter or
IndieGogo are not sustainable on the long-term.

As such, I think we should reach a consensus on a good monthly giving
platform to use for the project, and how the money will be distributed.

I think that the core developers that are working full-time should be
paid a reasonable living wage amount for their efforts, and any excess
could be given as bounty to part-time volunteers for fixing complex
bugs, and/or to help grow the much needed infrastructure.

In any case, here are the available platforms that are: a)
Libre/OpenSource and b) Monthly or weekly payments options to encourage
continued sustainable donations:

* GratiPay - https://gratipay.com/
* Liberapay - https://liberapay.com/ (Better I think, since it includes
Team payment)

Others/non-free: Patreon,  do nxt, etc.

Taxes etc. would need to be handled by Ceate, but I don't think that
will be an issue since we already have a good relationship with them for
our current donations.

Thoughts?

Luke





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From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr 27 00:36:42 2016
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:36:42 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Fwd: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] MAME emulator is giving incentive
 to use non-free software
In-Reply-To: <CALkz57GMzCatXMLsWnoz7x7a2KUaqGo01PQFgGY8EYC0BMJqpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALkz57GMzCatXMLsWnoz7x7a2KUaqGo01PQFgGY8EYC0BMJqpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5720099A.6080606@openmailbox.org>


fyi

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [GNU-linux-libre] MAME emulator is giving incentive to use
non-free software
Date: 	Wed, 27 Apr 2016 00:31:33 +0000
From: 	al?rio eyng <alirioeyng at gmail.com>
Reply-To: 	Workgroup for fully free GNU/Linux distributions
<gnu-linux-libre at nongnu.org>
To: 	gnu-linux-libre at nongnu.org
CC: 	guix-devel at gnu.org



Luke:
>https://wiki.parabola.nu/Emulator_licensing_issues
>
>This may prove useful in the event of further research/discussion.
this was mentioned, and it's missing crucial information.

let's add ndiswrapper to it.
it would be classified as "free + free use", but it is still rejected;
because [0] classifies it as "free + useless free use" or "useless in freedom".

proposed definition of "usefulness" for emulators:
 free software _needs_ it as a runtime dependency; or
 development tool acting as hardware replacement.

ndiswrapper fails both, so it's useless in freedom.
qemu emulates current hardware, so it succeeds the second.
wine is needed for notepad++[1], so it succeeds the first.

wine fails the second, so we could provide it just as a dependency not
directly installable.

hatari (atari st) and ppsspp (psp) fail the second.
psp was discontinued in december 2014[2], so it is possible to argue
it is not obsolete; but we probably should not support it for
development anyway[3]

these information and others already there is not really about an
emulator, but about the architecture/board ("driver" in mame[4]); we
could have separate tables describing architectures/boards and
emulators.

mame is so flexible [4] it's really tricky.
a current main processor architecture can have all boards failing the
above criteria, directly.
how much main processor emulation needs board emulation?
if a board is needed and there are no other similar
emulators/disassemblers/debuggers for that architecture with boards
succeeding the criteria, the most recently discontinued board should
get an exception.


answering [5], mac-on-linux was removed from debian/trisquel by being
unmaintained [6].
[0] and [6] should be refactored or merged.

[0]https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines
[1]needs checking
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Windows-only_free_software
[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Portable
[3]boycottsony.org
[4]18:34
https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/hardware-reverse-engineering-insights-from-the-mame/
[5]http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnu-linux-libre/2016-04/msg00122.html
[6]https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/software-does-not-respect-free-system-distribution-guidelines




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From ingegnue at riseup.net  Wed Apr 27 01:01:43 2016
From: ingegnue at riseup.net (IngeGNUe)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:01:43 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Sustainable Donations for Parabola Project
In-Reply-To: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org>
References: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <57200F77.40903@riseup.net>

On 04/26/16 20:28, Luke wrote:
> Hello,
> It has come to my attention that some of our developers are now working
> full-time on Parabola (and not getting paid enough to even pay the bills!).
> We should come up with a plan to give these hard workers a minimum
> living wage. The only way I see this possible will be a weekly or
> monthly giving program, the other options such as KickStarter or
> IndieGogo are not sustainable on the long-term.
> 
> As such, I think we should reach a consensus on a good monthly giving
> platform to use for the project, and how the money will be distributed.
> 
> I think that the core developers that are working full-time should be
> paid a reasonable living wage amount for their efforts, and any excess
> could be given as bounty to part-time volunteers for fixing complex
> bugs, and/or to help grow the much needed infrastructure.
> 
> In any case, here are the available platforms that are: a)
> Libre/OpenSource and b) Monthly or weekly payments options to encourage
> continued sustainable donations:
> 
> * GratiPay - https://gratipay.com/
> * Liberapay - https://liberapay.com/ (Better I think, since it includes
> Team payment)
> 
> Others/non-free: Patreon,  do nxt, etc.
> 
> Taxes etc. would need to be handled by Ceate, but I don't think that
> will be an issue since we already have a good relationship with them for
> our current donations.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Luke

I am a simple working class support tech, but I've been thinking about
y'all and will sign on as a monthly donor if an easy way to make
recurring contributions like one of these is implemented. Not as a donor
to any particular person (that feels awkward), but to the team /
Parabola project.

Also, cheers for seeking an alternative to Paypal. If it wasn't for
~~Paypal~~ PayENEMY, Neo900's funds wouldn't have been frozen.

I am sorry that the Parabola devs are going through a hardship.

What is most of the full time spent on? Could any part of it be automated?

IngeGNUe


From g4jc at openmailbox.org  Wed Apr 27 01:12:40 2016
From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:12:40 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Sustainable Donations for Parabola Project
In-Reply-To: <57200F77.40903@riseup.net>
References: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org> <57200F77.40903@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <57201208.30602@openmailbox.org>

On 04/26/2016 09:01 PM, IngeGNUe wrote:
>
> I am a simple working class support tech, but I've been thinking about
> y'all and will sign on as a monthly donor if an easy way to make
> recurring contributions like one of these is implemented. Not as a donor
> to any particular person (that feels awkward), but to the team /
> Parabola project.
>
> Also, cheers for seeking an alternative to Paypal. If it wasn't for
> ~~Paypal~~ PayENEMY, Neo900's funds wouldn't have been frozen.
>
> I am sorry that the Parabola devs are going through a hardship.
>
> What is most of the full time spent on? Could any part of it be automated?
>
> IngeGNUe
> _______________________________________________
> Dev mailing list
> Dev at lists.parabola.nu
> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev
>
I know a lot of time is spent to build packages, especially kernels.
Emulatorman currently maintains about 800+ critical packages, including
our linux-libre kernels.
We could try to automate this with a build-server, but it would be risky
to do this via VPS to insure package integrity from hackers,
third-parties, etc.

I also only work part-time, and currently donate two mirrors, but I have
been thinking on how to keep the core development team around for the
long-term.
As such, I won't be seeking any donations at this time. But to the core
developers that need it, you know who you are and we thank you for your
generous contribution to keep Parabola GNU/Linux-libre alive and working
as it is today! :)

Luke




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From ingegnue at riseup.net  Wed Apr 27 01:17:30 2016
From: ingegnue at riseup.net (IngeGNUe)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:17:30 -0400
Subject: [Dev] Sustainable Donations for Parabola Project
In-Reply-To: <57201208.30602@openmailbox.org>
References: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org> <57200F77.40903@riseup.net>
 <57201208.30602@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <5720132A.20006@riseup.net>

Luke,

> I know a lot of time is spent to build packages, especially kernels.
> Emulatorman currently maintains about 800+ critical packages, including
> our linux-libre kernels.
> We could try to automate this with a build-server, but it would be risky
> to do this via VPS to insure package integrity from hackers,
> third-parties, etc.

OK, I see the issue. I'll let ya'll know if I find a solution :)

IngeGNUe


From emulatorman at riseup.net  Thu Apr 28 01:19:20 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 22:19:20 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Sustainable Donations for Parabola Project
In-Reply-To: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org>
References: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <57216518.1060801@riseup.net>

On 04/26/2016 09:28 PM, Luke wrote:
> Hello,
> It has come to my attention that some of our developers are now working
> full-time on Parabola (and not getting paid enough to even pay the bills!).
> We should come up with a plan to give these hard workers a minimum
> living wage. The only way I see this possible will be a weekly or
> monthly giving program, the other options such as KickStarter or
> IndieGogo are not sustainable on the long-term.
> 
> As such, I think we should reach a consensus on a good monthly giving
> platform to use for the project, and how the money will be distributed.
> 
> I think that the core developers that are working full-time should be
> paid a reasonable living wage amount for their efforts, and any excess
> could be given as bounty to part-time volunteers for fixing complex
> bugs, and/or to help grow the much needed infrastructure.
> 
> In any case, here are the available platforms that are: a)
> Libre/OpenSource and b) Monthly or weekly payments options to encourage
> continued sustainable donations:
> 
> * GratiPay - https://gratipay.com/
> * Liberapay - https://liberapay.com/ (Better I think, since it includes
> Team payment)
> 
> Others/non-free: Patreon,  do nxt, etc.
> 
> Taxes etc. would need to be handled by Ceate, but I don't think that
> will be an issue since we already have a good relationship with them for
> our current donations.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Luke

Good idea Luke, we could create a page called "Crowd-Founding" like we
did with Donations [0] and put it for the Support section in our main
page below "Donate". What do you think?

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations

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From nicolasmaia at tutanota.com  Thu Apr 28 01:21:30 2016
From: nicolasmaia at tutanota.com (nicolasmaia at tutanota.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 02:21:30 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Dev] Sustainable Donations for Parabola Project
References: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org> <KGK8MUF--3-0@tutanota.com>
Message-ID: <KGPSD5r--3-0@tutanota.com>

If only Snowdrift was already released...
Nicolas Maia
--
Enviado seguramente pelo Tutanota. Torne sua caixa de correio criptografada 
hoje mesmo!https://tutanota.com

>
> 26. Abr 2016 21:28 por > g4jc at openmailbox.org> :
>
>
>> Hello,
>> It has come to my attention that some of our developers are now working
>> full-time on Parabola (and not getting paid enough to even pay the 
>> bills!).
>> We should come up with a plan to give these hard workers a minimum
>> living wage. The only way I see this possible will be a weekly or
>> monthly giving program, the other options such as KickStarter or
>> IndieGogo are not sustainable on the long-term.
>>
>> As such, I think we should reach a consensus on a good monthly giving
>> platform to use for the project, and how the money will be distributed.
>>
>> I think that the core developers that are working full-time should be
>> paid a reasonable living wage amount for their efforts, and any excess
>> could be given as bounty to part-time volunteers for fixing complex
>> bugs, and/or to help grow the much needed infrastructure.
>>
>> In any case, here are the available platforms that are: a)
>> Libre/OpenSource and b) Monthly or weekly payments options to encourage
>> continued sustainable donations:
>>
>> * GratiPay - >> https://gratipay.com
>> * Liberapay - >> https://liberapay.com>>  (Better I think, since it 
>> includes
>> Team payment)
>>
>> Others/non-free: Patreon,  do nxt, etc.
>>
>> Taxes etc. would need to be handled by Ceate, but I don't think that
>> will be an issue since we already have a good relationship with them for
>> our current donations.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Luke
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From nicolasmaia at tutanota.com  Thu Apr 28 01:28:31 2016
From: nicolasmaia at tutanota.com (nicolasmaia at tutanota.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 02:28:31 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Dev] Sustainable Donations for Parabola Project
In-Reply-To: <57216518.1060801@riseup.net>
References: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org>
 <<572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org>> <57216518.1060801@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <KGPTou_--3-0@tutanota.com>

I think Andr? has a good idea there. A wiki page is pretty good for 
condensing this kind of info. If any qualms arise, we can either discuss on 
the talk page or here in this mailing list.

Nicolas Maia
--
Enviado seguramente pelo Tutanota. Torne sua caixa de correio criptografada 
hoje mesmo!https://tutanota.com

27. Abr 2016 22:19 por emulatorman at riseup.net:


> On 04/26/2016 09:28 PM, Luke wrote:
>> Hello,
>> It has come to my attention that some of our developers are now working
>> full-time on Parabola (and not getting paid enough to even pay the 
>> bills!).
>> We should come up with a plan to give these hard workers a minimum
>> living wage. The only way I see this possible will be a weekly or
>> monthly giving program, the other options such as KickStarter or
>> IndieGogo are not sustainable on the long-term.
>>
>> As such, I think we should reach a consensus on a good monthly giving
>> platform to use for the project, and how the money will be distributed.
>>
>> I think that the core developers that are working full-time should be
>> paid a reasonable living wage amount for their efforts, and any excess
>> could be given as bounty to part-time volunteers for fixing complex
>> bugs, and/or to help grow the much needed infrastructure.
>>
>> In any case, here are the available platforms that are: a)
>> Libre/OpenSource and b) Monthly or weekly payments options to encourage
>> continued sustainable donations:
>>
>> * GratiPay - >> https://gratipay.com
>> * Liberapay - >> https://liberapay.com>>  (Better I think, since it 
>> includes
>> Team payment)
>>
>> Others/non-free: Patreon,  do nxt, etc.
>>
>> Taxes etc. would need to be handled by Ceate, but I don't think that
>> will be an issue since we already have a good relationship with them for
>> our current donations.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Luke
>
> Good idea Luke, we could create a page called "Crowd-Founding" like we
> did with Donations [0] and put it for the Support section in our main
> page below "Donate". What do you think?
>
> [0]:> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations
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From nobody at parabola.nu  Fri Apr 29 01:54:09 2016
From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 01:54:09 -0000
Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [python-efl] marked out-of-date
Message-ID: <20160429015409.1454.63525@parabola.nu>

kete at ninthfloor.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date:


* python2-efl 1.10.0-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/python2-efl/
* python2-efl 1.10.0-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/python2-efl/
* python-efl 1.10.0-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/python-efl/
* python-efl 1.10.0-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/python-efl/


The user provided the following additional text:

no rush?I'm using one from aur.



From emulatorman at riseup.net  Fri Apr 29 20:11:49 2016
From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 17:11:49 -0300
Subject: [Dev] Sustainable Donations for Parabola Project
In-Reply-To: <KGPTou_--3-0@tutanota.com>
References: <572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org>
 <<572007B1.1060604@openmailbox.org> <57216518.1060801@riseup.net>
 <KGPTou_--3-0@tutanota.com>
Message-ID: <5723C005.2090107@riseup.net>

On 04/27/2016 10:28 PM, nicolasmaia at tutanota.com wrote:
> I think Andr? has a good idea there. A wiki page is pretty good for
> condensing this kind of info. If any qualms arise, we can either discuss
> on the talk page or here in this mailing list.
> 
> Nicolas Maia

I created the Crowdfunding page to continue the discussion and expansion
there [0]

[0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Crowdfunding

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