From elcorreo at deshackra.com Sun Nov 1 04:04:53 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 22:04:53 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> But there is no fundamental difference between partnering or not partnering, the issue is the same, there is a use of a "nonfree service" (or whatever that phrase wants to mean) being promoted and its "nonfreeness" (to put it in some way) of the service doesn't not change because developers did no partnering with the Big Brother, adding the fact that no free software have been installed in my laptop in order to use Firefox Hello or the social directory (or whatever its name is), the thing done to remove this so-called "nonfree" feature was changing some javascript in a file called vendor.js. Using the same logic, we should blacklist half Internet (or shipping EFF's Privacy Badger by default with Iceweasel and IceCat, at least) because they promote "nonfree services" like Facebook and Twitter as content-sharing platforms, but no, we had to ban a feature that works as an excellent and more practical alternative to Skype. If the feature don't require proprietary software to run on user's machine, but it may rise a privacy concern, then the feature should be disabled in a package put on Nonprism repo, is that simple, otherwise we may fall in the slippery slope. El s?bado 31 de octubre del 2015 a las 1738 horas, fauno escribi?: > Fabio Pesari writes: > >> On 10/31/2015 11:58 PM, fauno wrote: >>> >>> the issue is not only about privacy but also dependency on proprietary >>> services... i know this is a slippery slope, "why not remove msn from >>> pidgin then?". >> >> I personally feel that is a different issue. Pidgin did not partner with >> Microsoft, to the best of my knowledge, but Mozilla did partner with >> TokBox (owned by Telef?nica) and thus Firefox Hello can be seen as >> promoting nonfree software. > > yes, exactly -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From fabio at pesari.eu Sun Nov 1 09:35:44 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 10:35:44 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> On 11/01/2015 05:04 AM, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > But there is no fundamental difference between partnering or not partnering, the issue is the same, > there is a use of a "nonfree service" (or whatever that phrase wants to mean) being promoted and its > "nonfreeness" (to put it in some way) of the service doesn't not change because developers did no > partnering with the Big Brother, adding the fact that no free software have been installed in my > laptop in order to use Firefox Hello or the social directory (or whatever its name is), the thing > done to remove this so-called "nonfree" feature was changing some javascript in a file called > vendor.js. I agree with you that saying "nonfree service" was very stupid (and I apologize for that but in my defense, it was night here!) but you get what I meant - who knows what the hell TokBox is? (I just think it's funny that they call their proprietary platform "OpenTok"). The only way we can trust a server is to inspect its memory as it is running, because otherwise even if it's running a free program it might as well run other programs (even free ones) that collect user data from logs (or even memory) and send them somewhere. And even if we were able to do that, we would have to be able to disassemble the programs in memory to make sure they are what we think they are and without physical access to the physical hardware, it still would be easy to trick users. Moral of the story: on the web, you are going to trust someone eventually. It's either other people in peer-to-peer or some server in client-server. All we can ask is to choose what services to trust, and Firefox Hello does not offer that option because it's sneaked in a completely unrelated program, a web browser. I'm not against programs like Pidgin, because the choice is left entirely to the user and it doesn't actively recommend any protocol over the other. Pidgin claims to be a "universal chat client" and what they do is reasonable. Is Firefox a video conferencing program? > Using the same logic, we should blacklist half Internet (or shipping EFF's Privacy Badger by default > with Iceweasel and IceCat, at least) because they promote "nonfree services" like Facebook and > Twitter as content-sharing platforms, but no, we had to ban a feature that works as an excellent and > more practical alternative to Skype. That doesn't sound like the same logic to me. Users should have the freedom to make their choices. If Firefox Hello were the only way to replace Skype, I would agree with you, but it isn't. Trying to replace Skype is noble and all but I call bullshit on the nobility of their efforts - they saw a chance to partner with a big company and they took it. If they really wanted to replace Skype, they would have collaborated with the community and let a trusted entity (like the EFF or the FSF) run the service. > If the feature don't require proprietary software to run on user's machine, but it may rise a > privacy concern, then the feature should be disabled in a package put on Nonprism repo, is that > simple, otherwise we may fall in the slippery slope. I think that in this case there might be another solution: explain to users in the post-install message that the browser optionally relies on an external service which might violate user privacy, and if it's possible during the first time the program is launched as well. From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Sun Nov 1 09:55:03 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 10:55:03 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> So libre is for free software and nonprism is for free software that protects choice of whom to trust, both regardless of whether the trusted party runs free software? Is it a good idea to support free software in libre that does not protect choice? This seems relevant: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Sun Nov 1 16:33:41 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 17:33:41 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> Message-ID: <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> I'm not sure but I think this message did not go to the list? On 11/01/2015 04:18 PM, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > Sorry guys but it seems to me that `loop.enabled` set to `false` gives users a lot of choice, but wiping everything else too makes me think my only choice is to rebuild Iceweasel or looking for a couple of hours on the Internet for the default values of the options wiped in a effort to enable Firefox Hello and co. > > In my understanding, Free Software cares only about what software the user runs on a machine he can reach with his hands,thus, we shouldn't care if a service X is working on a server running the entire Parabola's black list, that don't affect users freedom, so we shouldn't care. > I'm not a Parabola dev, but trying to understand this: libre is for free software, so Hello should not be a problem in this regard. I should not have questioned this and there clearly are reasons to use only free software but some restrictive services. Sorry. Then again, some things on the libre blacklist are blacklisted because of support for Skype / non-privacy search engines / ?. What I want is no SaaSS. Right now the description of nonprism in the Wiki isn't very clear ("nonprism contains packages provided by the Parabola community without services under global data surveillance programs like PRISM.") and I'm not sure its policy is what I want, even though the de facto changes are what I want. > SSAS is evil, but if Firefox Hello falls in such category, as some are suggesting, then it seems to me that any XMPP service should too. > For XMPP, you can choose which provider to use, like e-mail. You can switch to a different provider whenever you want to. You can also host your own. XMPP is not as restrictive as Hello. From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Sun Nov 1 23:10:59 2015 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2015 17:10:59 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> My 2 cents: I think Shackra is right. To me the distinction between explicitly partnering with a bad service (like Mozilla did) vs only using a bad service that already existed (MSN) is largely irrelevant as far as privacy recommendations are concerned. Sure, intentions matter unless you are a consequentialist, but both scenarios are equally unacceptable for privacy. I would discourage Shackra from using MSN as much as Firefox Hello. This is not equivalent to saying the current Icecat and Iceweasel packages don't comply with the policy or something. They clearly are OK and I appreciate Emulatorman or whoever did it for washing that Mozilla mess away, but there's room for moving them to [nonprism] if somebody wants to maintain a less stripped-down version in [libre]. Offtopic: Le dim. 1 nov. 2015 ? 10:33, Florian Pelz a ?crit : > libre is for free software Not just [libre], all the Parabola repositories strive to contain only free software. What [libre] really is for is modifications or replacements for Arch packages bearing freedom issues (not all of them. The blacklist documents which ones get fixed in [libre] and which ones we completely discard. your-freedom is built from the blacklist). [libre] also contains a few original packages that would rather stay in [core] or [extra] if they came from Arch. > > Then again, some things on the libre blacklist are blacklisted because > of support for Skype / non-privacy search engines / ?. > > What I want is no SaaSS. Right now the description of nonprism in the > Wiki isn't very clear ("nonprism contains packages provided by the > Parabola community without services under global data surveillance > programs like PRISM.") and I'm not sure its policy is what I want, > even > though the de facto changes are what I want. > >> SSAS is evil, but if Firefox Hello falls in such category, as some >> are suggesting, then it seems to me that any XMPP service should too. >> > > For XMPP, you can choose which provider to use, like e-mail. You can > switch to a different provider whenever you want to. You can also host > your own. XMPP is not as restrictive as Hello. [nonprism] does not actually deal with SaaSS, much less it discriminates networking programs that give you "choice" of service providers from those which don't. It really only does what you read in the Wiki. your-privacy bans perfectly free software packages known to use online services which in turn are known to engage in mass surveillance; and [nonprism] patches some or all of those packages so that you can use them without worrying. Yet if you want to avoid SaaSS then activating [nonprism] is a reasonable step in that direction because of the correlation between SaaSS and mass surveillance. However, [nonprism] doesn't guarantee you that even the most obscure free software client program meant to be used with SaaSS will be blacklisted. There's nothing a distro can do to make sure the user never connects to SaaSS; you still need to think about your online practices. It's also worth pointing out that online communications don't strictly classify as SaaSS because while they are services and potential privacy threats they don't substitute local computing. Communication is a joint activity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elcorreo at deshackra.com Sun Nov 1 23:37:50 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2015 17:37:50 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <87d1vti94h.fsf@abril.charola> More over, I don't see anything intrinsically evil in not having different choices of service providers (this is not a violation of any of user's software freedom), so this is neither a reason to ban features from free software. El domingo 01 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1710 horas, Isaac David escribi?: > My 2 cents: I think Shackra is right. To me the distinction between > explicitly partnering with a bad service (like Mozilla did) vs only > using a bad service that already existed (MSN) is largely irrelevant as > far as privacy recommendations are concerned. Sure, intentions matter > unless you are a consequentialist, but both scenarios are equally > unacceptable for privacy. I would discourage Shackra from using MSN as > much as Firefox Hello. > > This is not equivalent to saying the current Icecat and Iceweasel > packages don't comply with the policy or something. They clearly are OK > and I appreciate Emulatorman or whoever did it for washing that Mozilla > mess away, but there's room for moving them to [nonprism] if somebody > wants to maintain a less stripped-down version in [libre]. > > Offtopic: > > Le dim. 1 nov. 2015 ? 10:33, Florian Pelz > a ?crit : >> libre is for free software > > Not just [libre], all the Parabola repositories strive to contain only > free software. What [libre] really is for is modifications or > replacements for Arch packages bearing freedom issues (not all of them. > The blacklist documents which ones get fixed in [libre] and which ones > we completely discard. your-freedom is built from the blacklist). > [libre] also contains a few original packages that would rather stay in > [core] or [extra] if they came from Arch. > >> >> Then again, some things on the libre blacklist are blacklisted because >> of support for Skype / non-privacy search engines / ?. >> >> What I want is no SaaSS. Right now the description of nonprism in the >> Wiki isn't very clear ("nonprism contains packages provided by the >> Parabola community without services under global data surveillance >> programs like PRISM.") and I'm not sure its policy is what I want, >> even >> though the de facto changes are what I want. >> >>> SSAS is evil, but if Firefox Hello falls in such category, as some >>> are suggesting, then it seems to me that any XMPP service should too. >>> >> >> For XMPP, you can choose which provider to use, like e-mail. You can >> switch to a different provider whenever you want to. You can also host >> your own. XMPP is not as restrictive as Hello. > > [nonprism] does not actually deal with SaaSS, much less it > discriminates networking programs that give you "choice" of service > providers from those which don't. It really only does what you read in > the Wiki. your-privacy bans perfectly free software packages known to > use online services which in turn are known to engage in mass > surveillance; and [nonprism] patches some or all of those packages so > that you can use them without worrying. Yet if you want to avoid SaaSS > then activating [nonprism] is a reasonable step in that direction > because of the correlation between SaaSS and mass surveillance. > However, [nonprism] doesn't guarantee you that even the most obscure > free software client program meant to be used with SaaSS will be > blacklisted. There's nothing a distro can do to make sure the user > never connects to SaaSS; you still need to think about your online > practices. > > It's also worth pointing out that online communications don't strictly > classify as SaaSS because while they are services and potential privacy > threats they don't substitute local computing. Communication is a joint > activity. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Sun Nov 1 23:53:09 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 00:53:09 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> On 11/02/2015 12:10 AM, Isaac David wrote: > [nonprism] does not actually deal with SaaSS, much less it discriminates > networking programs that give you "choice" of service providers from > those which don't. It really only does what you read in the Wiki. > your-privacy bans perfectly free software packages known to use online > services which in turn are known to engage in mass surveillance; and > [nonprism] patches some or all of those packages so that you can use > them without worrying. Yet if you want to avoid SaaSS then activating > [nonprism] is a reasonable step in that direction because of the > correlation between SaaSS and mass surveillance. However, [nonprism] > doesn't guarantee you that even the most obscure free software client > program meant to be used with SaaSS will be blacklisted. There's nothing > a distro can do to make sure the user never connects to SaaSS; you still > need to think about your online practices. > Hm? Does Firefox Hello / Telef?nica engage in mass surveillance known to us? They certainly can, but a quick (maybe too quick) Web search does not show anything. What is the criterion to remove them from nonprism? On 11/02/2015 12:37 AM, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > More over, I don't see anything intrinsically evil in not having > different choices of service > providers (this is not a violation of any of user's software > freedom), so this is neither a reason to > ban features from free software. > It seems quite similar to the reasons for free software and not only open-source in the literal sense. You depend on them. From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Mon Nov 2 04:45:12 2015 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2015 22:45:12 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <1446439512.20013.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Le dim. 1 nov. 2015 ? 17:53, Florian Pelz a ?crit : > Hm? Does Firefox Hello / Telef?nica engage in mass surveillance > known to > us? Not that I know. Nonetheless I think [nonprism] would be the best place for the current privacy-oriented browsers IF people want to maintain both variants, given that all packages in [nonprism] are about making free software more private. There's also the general purpose [pcr], in case people want [nonprism] to stick exclusively to Snowden-esque levels of privacy concerns. I will suggest no more because I believe the packager's opinion is what matters the most. > They certainly can, but a quick (maybe too quick) Web search does > not show anything. What is the criterion to remove them from nonprism? I don't know if there's a well-defined criterion based on confirmed mass surveillance or anything, but I would understand if there weren't one. Can anyone more experienced answer this question? I would like to know too -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elcorreo at deshackra.com Mon Nov 2 04:46:30 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2015 22:46:30 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> Suspicion is good enough criteria, AFAIK. Again, dependency is not good enough reason. Dependency in a piece of hardware that requires proprietary software to function is, on the other hand, good enough reason to replace *such* hardware. But the server side of Firefox Hello do not affects my four freedoms. LibreJS exists because proprietary Javascript runs in user's browsers, not because the stack of the servers visited by those users runs the entire Parabola's black list. El domingo 01 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1753 horas, Florian Pelz escribi?: > On 11/02/2015 12:10 AM, Isaac David wrote: >> [nonprism] does not actually deal with SaaSS, much less it discriminates >> networking programs that give you "choice" of service providers from >> those which don't. It really only does what you read in the Wiki. >> your-privacy bans perfectly free software packages known to use online >> services which in turn are known to engage in mass surveillance; and >> [nonprism] patches some or all of those packages so that you can use >> them without worrying. Yet if you want to avoid SaaSS then activating >> [nonprism] is a reasonable step in that direction because of the >> correlation between SaaSS and mass surveillance. However, [nonprism] >> doesn't guarantee you that even the most obscure free software client >> program meant to be used with SaaSS will be blacklisted. There's nothing >> a distro can do to make sure the user never connects to SaaSS; you still >> need to think about your online practices. >> > > Hm? Does Firefox Hello / Telef?nica engage in mass surveillance known to > us? They certainly can, but a quick (maybe too quick) Web search does > not show anything. What is the criterion to remove them from nonprism? > > On 11/02/2015 12:37 AM, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >> More over, I don't see anything intrinsically evil in not having >> different choices of service >> providers (this is not a violation of any of user's software >> freedom), so this is neither a reason to >> ban features from free software. >> > > It seems quite similar to the reasons for free software and not only > open-source in the literal sense. You depend on them. -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 2 06:47:28 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 03:47:28 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Jorge Araya Navarro writes: > Suspicion is good enough criteria, AFAIK. > > Again, dependency is not good enough reason. Dependency in a piece of hardware that requires > proprietary software to function is, on the other hand, good enough reason to replace *such* > hardware. > > But the server side of Firefox Hello do not affects my four freedoms. LibreJS exists because > proprietary Javascript runs in user's browsers, not because the stack of the servers visited by > those users runs the entire Parabola's black list. i was taling about the slippery slope precisely because using other stuff as examples muddles this particular discussion. so, why should we bring back hello to iceweasel? -- http://lainventoria.com.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From elcorreo at deshackra.com Mon Nov 2 21:15:31 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 15:15:31 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> It doesn't muddles anything but shows why the logic used to ban the feature is irrational in regard to Free Software principles and goals. Answering your question: Because it is useful. El lunes 02 de noviembre del 2015 a las 0047 horas, fauno escribi?: > Jorge Araya Navarro writes: > >> Suspicion is good enough criteria, AFAIK. >> >> Again, dependency is not good enough reason. Dependency in a piece of hardware that requires >> proprietary software to function is, on the other hand, good enough reason to replace *such* >> hardware. >> >> But the server side of Firefox Hello do not affects my four freedoms. LibreJS exists because >> proprietary Javascript runs in user's browsers, not because the stack of the servers visited by >> those users runs the entire Parabola's black list. > > i was taling about the slippery slope precisely because using other > stuff as examples muddles this particular discussion. > > so, why should we bring back hello to iceweasel? -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Mon Nov 2 21:38:56 2015 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:38:56 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 2 22:48:10 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 19:48:10 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] paypal account ready Message-ID: <87fv0onhlh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> tct tells me ceata has a paypal account now, and wants to know what should be the default donation... i'm guessing 10 usd/eur since is low enough for people wanting to give something? what do you think? -- :> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Mon Nov 2 23:09:12 2015 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 23:09:12 +0000 Subject: [Dev] [donations] paypal account ready In-Reply-To: <87fv0onhlh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87fv0onhlh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <5637ED18.8020903@gmail.com> On 02/11/15 22:48, fauno wrote: > > tct tells me ceata has a paypal account now, and wants to know what > should be the default donation... i'm guessing 10 usd/eur since is low > enough for people wanting to give something? what do you think? That's excellent. I had trouble donating using wire transfer, so gave up in the end, I might try again once you've got this sorted. Is it possible to set a user-defined amount? And could you let the list know once this is set up (so I can try donate again). I am exceedingly grateful for Parabola, and think it's good yous lot are now supporting ARM. Josh From tct at ceata.org Mon Nov 2 23:23:42 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 01:23:42 +0200 Subject: [Dev] [donations] paypal account ready In-Reply-To: <5637ED18.8020903@gmail.com> References: <87fv0onhlh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5637ED18.8020903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5637F07E.2020802@ceata.org> On 03.11.2015 01:09, Josh Branning wrote: > On 02/11/15 22:48, fauno wrote: >> >> tct tells me ceata has a paypal account now, and wants to know what >> should be the default donation... i'm guessing 10 usd/eur since is low >> enough for people wanting to give something? what do you think? It seems we can't set with PayPal a default amount for donations. There can be set a fixed amount for subscriptions/supporting/monthly donations. Sorry for misinforming you. > That's excellent. I had trouble donating using wire transfer, so gave up > in the end, I might try again once you've got this sorted. Great! > Is it possible to set a user-defined amount? And could you let the list > know once this is set up (so I can try donate again). I am exceedingly > grateful for Parabola, and think it's good yous lot are now supporting ARM. You can already make your donation to Parabola by following the link: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=8WJTKB86BR7MA I will e-mail fauno the button code for the website (in case the team wants to insert it). -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Mon Nov 2 23:33:28 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 00:33:28 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> Am I correct in that only Parabola's Iceweasel disables Hello and upstream does not? Arch generally tries to stay close to upstream. Parabola may want to do so too because it is what users may expect. Overriding Iceweasel with a non-Hello Iceweasel in nonprism may or may not be justified (see discussion about what criterion, ?). Overriding it in libre seems unjustified by the libre criteria IIUC and goes against some users' wishes and the way it's usually done on Arch. (Unless of course that Hello smiley icon is non-free as fauno said in the bug tracker.) Of course using Hello still generally is a bad idea. From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Mon Nov 2 23:38:00 2015 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 23:38:00 +0000 Subject: [Dev] [donations] paypal account ready In-Reply-To: <5637F07E.2020802@ceata.org> References: <87fv0onhlh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5637ED18.8020903@gmail.com> <5637F07E.2020802@ceata.org> Message-ID: <5637F3D8.1040308@gmail.com> Thanks, just donated, that was much easier than wire transfer. From g4jc at openmailbox.org Mon Nov 2 23:45:33 2015 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 18:45:33 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <5637F59D.8060109@openmailbox.org> Arch allows anything, and tons of non-free things from upstream. I would definately want to make sure a version of IceWeasel continues to have it disabled for libre and privacy concerns. I currently use the non-prism edition. That said, if you cannot run your own Hello Server, I think it is also a non-free addon. Relying on a third-party SaaS is not the way to go about running free software. The same could be said about Chromium, many of it's features are only available as hardcoded locations to google.com. We don't package Chromium since any attempt to fork it and remove non-free parts is time intensive and virtually breaks the 'browser'. It's a good thing that IceWeasel doesn't rely on third-party services, otherwise we might end up like Debian did with Chromium's always-on-microphone/plugin backdoor problem. On 11/02/2015 06:33 PM, Florian Pelz wrote: > Am I correct in that only Parabola's Iceweasel disables Hello and > upstream does not? Arch generally tries to stay close to upstream. > Parabola may want to do so too because it is what users may expect. > > Overriding Iceweasel with a non-Hello Iceweasel in nonprism may or may > not be justified (see discussion about what criterion, ?). Overriding it > in libre seems unjustified by the libre criteria IIUC and goes against > some users' wishes and the way it's usually done on Arch. (Unless of > course that Hello smiley icon is non-free as fauno said in the bug tracker.) > > Of course using Hello still generally is a bad idea. > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Nov 3 00:21:52 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:21:52 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] paypal account ready In-Reply-To: <5637F3D8.1040308@gmail.com> References: <87fv0onhlh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5637ED18.8020903@gmail.com> <5637F07E.2020802@ceata.org> <5637F3D8.1040308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87a8qwnd9b.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Josh Branning writes: > Thanks, just donated, that was much easier than wire transfer. thank you! https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Thanks.21 -- :{ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 3 02:31:20 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:31:20 -0300 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 Message-ID: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> Well, since coadde needs a BeagleBone Black to continue GRUB porting for ARMv7, i've created the final budget with the essential parts needed for it: * Beaglebone Black Board * USB to TTL Cable * Heatsink * 5V 2A Power Supply A user from eBay [0] sells a kit that includes all it + 8G TF Card + Mini USB at U$S 72.10. Otherwise, customs tax is 60% [1] and we should include it to the budget too. Therefore, the final budget is: U$S 72.10 (Beaglebone Black kit) U$S 43.26 (customs tax) Total: U$S 115.359 Since eBay accepts PayPal payments and we have a PayPal account [2], we could transfer the money from Parabola to my mother PayPal account to buy it and speed up the procedure. [0]:http://www.ebay.com/itm/BeagleBone-Black-Rev-C-DIY-4GB-512MB-AM335X-Single-Board-Platform-Kit-/171815071552?hash=item2800f9ef40:g:SXwAAOSwo0JWMyRf [1]:http://www.aduanas.gub.uy/innovaportal/file/13243/1/nuevo_procedimiento_para_compras_y_envios_arribados_por_correo_nacional_version_web_2015.pdf [2]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-November/003438.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tct at ceata.org Tue Nov 3 05:27:21 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:27:21 +0200 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> Message-ID: <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> On 03.11.2015 04:31, Andr? Silva wrote: > Total: U$S 115.359 > > Since eBay accepts PayPal payments and we have a PayPal account [2], we > could transfer the money from Parabola to my mother PayPal account to > buy it and speed up the procedure. For accounting purposes at Ceata, I'm afraid we can't transfer money to your relative. We need to withdraw the PayPal money into Ceata's EUR bank account and convert them to RON (Romanian New Leu). Then we can pay online by Ceata's credit card. I know it's not time and money efficient... Please discuss the issue. I will wait for fauno to tell me what you decide. Until then, I postpone the withdraw of josh's PayPal donation into Ceata's bank account. -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 3 06:01:42 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 03:01:42 -0300 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> Message-ID: <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> On 11/03/2015 02:27 AM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: > On 03.11.2015 04:31, Andr? Silva wrote: >> Total: U$S 115.359 >> >> Since eBay accepts PayPal payments and we have a PayPal account [2], we >> could transfer the money from Parabola to my mother PayPal account to >> buy it and speed up the procedure. > > For accounting purposes at Ceata, I'm afraid we can't transfer money to > your relative. We need to withdraw the PayPal money into Ceata's EUR > bank account and convert them to RON (Romanian New Leu). Then we can pay > online by Ceata's credit card. I know it's not time and money efficient... > > Please discuss the issue. I will wait for fauno to tell me what you > decide. Until then, I postpone the withdraw of josh's PayPal donation > into Ceata's bank account. > I thought that it could be possible because is more practical for this specific case and could speed up the procedure since coadde needs continue his GRUB porting for ARMv7, but don't worry, there are another ways to solve it too. My mother will have her international debit card around thursday, then we could transfer our money to it directly or from our btc donations to coadde's wallet. I put Bitcoin as the latest option because since eBay don't accepts btc, coadde needs sell it to somebody to get dollars and adds it to debit card before buy the needed kit to continue his development. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tct at ceata.org Tue Nov 3 06:07:08 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 08:07:08 +0200 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> Message-ID: <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> On 03.11.2015 08:01, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 11/03/2015 02:27 AM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: >> On 03.11.2015 04:31, Andr? Silva wrote: >>> Total: U$S 115.359 >>> >>> Since eBay accepts PayPal payments and we have a PayPal account [2], we >>> could transfer the money from Parabola to my mother PayPal account to >>> buy it and speed up the procedure. >> >> For accounting purposes at Ceata, I'm afraid we can't transfer money to >> your relative. We need to withdraw the PayPal money into Ceata's EUR >> bank account and convert them to RON (Romanian New Leu). Then we can pay >> online by Ceata's credit card. I know it's not time and money efficient... >> >> Please discuss the issue. I will wait for fauno to tell me what you >> decide. Until then, I postpone the withdraw of josh's PayPal donation >> into Ceata's bank account. >> > > I thought that it could be possible because is more practical for this > specific case and could speed up the procedure since coadde needs > continue his GRUB porting for ARMv7, but don't worry, there are another > ways to solve it too. My mother will have her international debit card > around thursday, then we could transfer our money to it directly or from > our btc donations to coadde's wallet. Hold on, I said we *can* buy the BB with Ceata's credit card in RON. -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 3 07:12:53 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 04:12:53 -0300 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> Message-ID: <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> On 11/03/2015 03:07 AM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: > On 03.11.2015 08:01, Andr? Silva wrote: >> On 11/03/2015 02:27 AM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: >>> On 03.11.2015 04:31, Andr? Silva wrote: >>>> Total: U$S 115.359 >>>> >>>> Since eBay accepts PayPal payments and we have a PayPal account [2], we >>>> could transfer the money from Parabola to my mother PayPal account to >>>> buy it and speed up the procedure. >>> >>> For accounting purposes at Ceata, I'm afraid we can't transfer money to >>> your relative. We need to withdraw the PayPal money into Ceata's EUR >>> bank account and convert them to RON (Romanian New Leu). Then we can pay >>> online by Ceata's credit card. I know it's not time and money efficient... >>> >>> Please discuss the issue. I will wait for fauno to tell me what you >>> decide. Until then, I postpone the withdraw of josh's PayPal donation >>> into Ceata's bank account. >>> >> >> I thought that it could be possible because is more practical for this >> specific case and could speed up the procedure since coadde needs >> continue his GRUB porting for ARMv7, but don't worry, there are another >> ways to solve it too. My mother will have her international debit card >> around thursday, then we could transfer our money to it directly or from >> our btc donations to coadde's wallet. > > Hold on, I said we *can* buy the BB with Ceata's credit card in RON. > Thanks for all Tiberiu, but there's a problem, i'll need the commercial invoice and tracking number to declare it to pay (with our donations) the taxes to the customs website from my mother account because it exceeds the exemption tax from customs. Also, i can't declare a lower value to get the exemption from customs because the new law requires the receiver must be the credit/debit card owner (in this case my mother) to confirm the purchase value. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Nov 3 07:58:24 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 04:58:24 -0300 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Andr? Silva writes: > > Thanks for all Tiberiu, but there's a problem, i'll need the commercial > invoice and tracking number to declare it to pay (with our donations) > the taxes to the customs website from my mother account because it > exceeds the exemption tax from customs. > > Also, i can't declare a lower value to get the exemption from customs > because the new law requires the receiver must be the credit/debit card > owner (in this case my mother) to confirm the purchase value. tiberiu, is there a way we can transfer the money to emulartorman's relative? emulatorman, is there some tax exemption for foundations or ngo in uruguay? is there a free software friendly org that can help us? i think ceata would be able to transfer the money if it's received by an entity instead of a natural person, am i right? -- http://vqfe4xmhxzi7w2uv.onion -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Tue Nov 3 08:35:41 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 09:35:41 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <5637F59D.8060109@openmailbox.org> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> <5637F59D.8060109@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <563871DD.8000007@pelzflorian.de> On 11/03/2015 12:45 AM, Luke wrote: > Arch allows anything, and tons of non-free things from upstream. > Arch typically only patches packages when there is a good reason for it. In general, this makes it easier for packagers, users and those who want to debug and is part of KISS which Parabola claims to respect in the Social Contract. I think the question should be whether Hello is a good reason for a patch (i.e. removal) in libre and whether it is a good reason for a patch in nonprism. An alternative would be having a separate iceweasel-no-hello package while retaining Hello in the ordinary iceweasel package. Clear criteria would help. Is libre only about the four freedoms, i.e. use of a free software license? What is nonprism about, e.g. should ekiga be blacklisted in your-privacy because it does not support encryption yet? From tct at ceata.org Tue Nov 3 09:16:54 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:16:54 +0200 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> Message-ID: <56387B86.7080808@ceata.org> On 03.11.2015 09:12, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 11/03/2015 03:07 AM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: >> On 03.11.2015 08:01, Andr? Silva wrote: >>> On 11/03/2015 02:27 AM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: >>>> On 03.11.2015 04:31, Andr? Silva wrote: >>>>> Total: U$S 115.359 >>>>> >>>>> Since eBay accepts PayPal payments and we have a PayPal account [2], we >>>>> could transfer the money from Parabola to my mother PayPal account to >>>>> buy it and speed up the procedure. >>>> >>>> For accounting purposes at Ceata, I'm afraid we can't transfer money to >>>> your relative. We need to withdraw the PayPal money into Ceata's EUR >>>> bank account and convert them to RON (Romanian New Leu). Then we can pay >>>> online by Ceata's credit card. I know it's not time and money efficient... >>>> >>>> Please discuss the issue. I will wait for fauno to tell me what you >>>> decide. Until then, I postpone the withdraw of josh's PayPal donation >>>> into Ceata's bank account. >>>> >>> >>> I thought that it could be possible because is more practical for this >>> specific case and could speed up the procedure since coadde needs >>> continue his GRUB porting for ARMv7, but don't worry, there are another >>> ways to solve it too. My mother will have her international debit card >>> around thursday, then we could transfer our money to it directly or from >>> our btc donations to coadde's wallet. >> >> Hold on, I said we *can* buy the BB with Ceata's credit card in RON. >> > > Thanks for all Tiberiu, but there's a problem, i'll need the commercial > invoice and tracking number to declare it to pay (with our donations) > the taxes to the customs website from my mother account because it > exceeds the exemption tax from customs. > > Also, i can't declare a lower value to get the exemption from customs > because the new law requires the receiver must be the credit/debit card > owner (in this case my mother) to confirm the purchase value. Let's discuss off the list the details of this special case and we will return to present the solution. Agreed? -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From greg at gregtomko.com Tue Nov 3 12:52:31 2015 From: greg at gregtomko.com (Greg Tomko) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:52:31 -0500 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: On 2015-11-03 02:58, fauno wrote: > Andr? Silva writes: > >> Thanks for all Tiberiu, but there's a problem, i'll need the commercial >> invoice and tracking number to declare it to pay (with our donations) >> the taxes to the customs website from my mother account because it >> exceeds the exemption tax from customs. >> >> Also, i can't declare a lower value to get the exemption from customs >> because the new law requires the receiver must be the credit/debit card >> owner (in this case my mother) to confirm the purchase value. > > tiberiu, is there a way we can transfer the money to emulartorman's > relative? > > emulatorman, is there some tax exemption for foundations or ngo in > uruguay? is there a free software friendly org that can help us? i > think ceata would be able to transfer the money if it's received by an > entity instead of a natural person, am i right? > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev [1] A little over a week ago I sent .7184 BTC to Parabola's wallet in response to the call for donations for proting Grub to ARMv7 (Was valued at $200 USD then, now it's $276) Adafruit has a Beaglebone Black for $55 USD [1] and you can use bitcoin directly during the checkout process. They probably have the other accessories you're looking for was well. Not sure if that makes things easier. [1] https://www.adafruit.com/products/1996 [2] -Greg Links: ------ [1] https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev [2] https://www.adafruit.com/products/1996 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tct at ceata.org Tue Nov 3 13:17:45 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 15:17:45 +0200 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <5638B3F9.8040406@ceata.org> On 03.11.2015 14:52, Greg Tomko wrote: > On 2015-11-03 02:58, fauno wrote: > >> Andr? Silva writes: >> >>> Thanks for all Tiberiu, but there's a problem, i'll need the commercial >>> invoice and tracking number to declare it to pay (with our donations) >>> the taxes to the customs website from my mother account because it >>> exceeds the exemption tax from customs. >>> >>> Also, i can't declare a lower value to get the exemption from customs >>> because the new law requires the receiver must be the credit/debit card >>> owner (in this case my mother) to confirm the purchase value. >> >> tiberiu, is there a way we can transfer the money to emulartorman's >> relative? >> >> emulatorman, is there some tax exemption for foundations or ngo in >> uruguay? is there a free software friendly org that can help us? i >> think ceata would be able to transfer the money if it's received by an >> entity instead of a natural person, am i right? > A little over a week ago I sent .7184 BTC to Parabola's wallet in > response to the call for donations for proting Grub to ARMv7 (Was valued > at $200 USD then, now it's $276) Adafruit has a Beaglebone Black for $55 > USD [1] and you can use bitcoin directly during the checkout process. > They probably have the other accessories you're looking for was well. > Not sure if that makes things easier. > > [1] https://www.adafruit.com/products/1996 [2] I already started discussing solutions with emulatorman and fauno, but this certainly is a very good (if not best) solution. How come it's so cheap at Adafruit? Comparing to Ebay, it's half the price. Maybe shipping is not gratis? As a separate note, for future, BTC should also be converted to RON and deposited in Parabola's fund at Ceata, if we want to be 100% legal. I realize it's not practical and anti-anarchist. Please let me know what you think about the issue. -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From greg at gregtomko.com Tue Nov 3 13:38:01 2015 From: greg at gregtomko.com (Greg Tomko) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 08:38:01 -0500 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <5638B3F9.8040406@ceata.org> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5638B3F9.8040406@ceata.org> Message-ID: On 2015-11-03 08:17, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: > On 03.11.2015 14:52, Greg Tomko wrote: On 2015-11-03 02:58, fauno wrote: > > Andr? Silva writes: > > Thanks for all Tiberiu, but there's a problem, i'll need the commercial > invoice and tracking number to declare it to pay (with our donations) > the taxes to the customs website from my mother account because it > exceeds the exemption tax from customs. > > Also, i can't declare a lower value to get the exemption from customs > because the new law requires the receiver must be the credit/debit card > owner (in this case my mother) to confirm the purchase value. > tiberiu, is there a way we can transfer the money to emulartorman's > relative? > > emulatorman, is there some tax exemption for foundations or ngo in > uruguay? is there a free software friendly org that can help us? i > think ceata would be able to transfer the money if it's received by an > entity instead of a natural person, am i right? > A little over a week ago I sent .7184 BTC to Parabola's wallet in > response to the call for donations for proting Grub to ARMv7 (Was valued > at $200 USD then, now it's $276) Adafruit has a Beaglebone Black for $55 > USD [1 [1]] and you can use bitcoin directly during the checkout process. > They probably have the other accessories you're looking for was well. > Not sure if that makes things easier. > > [1] https://www.adafruit.com/products/1996 [1] [2] I already started discussing solutions with emulatorman and fauno, but this certainly is a very good (if not best) solution. How come it's so cheap at Adafruit? Comparing to Ebay, it's half the price. Maybe shipping is not gratis? As a separate note, for future, BTC should also be converted to RON and deposited in Parabola's fund at Ceata, if we want to be 100% legal. I realize it's not practical and anti-anarchist. Please let me know what you think about the issue. Quite a few places have the Beaglebone Black between 50 & 60 USD [1] [2] [3] [4], a few even have free shipping in that range, Adafruit's shipping for that product is not gratis. I think the markup on these can get quite extreme if you purchase them locally after it was subjected to VAT / import tariffs. I donated the equivalent of $200 figuring while the frugal option is preferred, if a higher priced option is more practical & less likely to get held in customs I'd rather have the high assurance. Don't want to have to purchase twice! :) On the BTC issue, don't want any legal headaches for anyone. Converting & depositing the funds should still be enough to cover the purchase, even if it isn't as practical. I leave that choice up to the wallet owner. Technically though, when you checkout with bitcoin at Adafruit, it's being converted to USD based on market rate. Not sure how it will be reflected on the receipt, but if it shows USD value, would that help from an accounting perspective or no because the originating currency was bitcoin? [1] http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-16241?scode=GS401&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=google&gclid=COCv6pKs9MgCFQoSHwodYLEMPA [2] [2] https://www.blinq.com/detail/computers-office/other/beagleboard-beaglebone-rev-c/460667?condition=brand-new&adpos=1o2&creative=72063869047&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CK2cm5Os9MgCFc8YHwodmCUBMw [3] [3] http://store.netgate.com/BBB/StarterKit.aspx?gclid=CJ3yv4is9MgCFc-RHwodgqUE5Q [4] [4] http://www.robotshop.com/en/beagleboard-beaglebone-black-development-platform.html?gclid=CPjG05Os9MgCFdORHwod5YkCTg [5] Links: ------ [1] https://www.adafruit.com/products/1996 [2] http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-16241?scode=GS401&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=google&gclid=COCv6pKs9MgCFQoSHwodYLEMPA [3] https://www.blinq.com/detail/computers-office/other/beagleboard-beaglebone-rev-c/460667?condition=brand-new&adpos=1o2&creative=72063869047&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CK2cm5Os9MgCFc8YHwodmCUBMw [4] http://store.netgate.com/BBB/StarterKit.aspx?gclid=CJ3yv4is9MgCFc-RHwodgqUE5Q [5] http://www.robotshop.com/en/beagleboard-beaglebone-black-development-platform.html?gclid=CPjG05Os9MgCFdORHwod5YkCTg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tct at ceata.org Tue Nov 3 13:45:45 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 15:45:45 +0200 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5638B3F9.8040406@ceata.org> Message-ID: <5638BA89.3030104@ceata.org> On 03.11.2015 15:38, Greg Tomko wrote: > Quite a few places have the Beaglebone Black between 50 & 60 USD [1] [2] > [3] [4], a few even have free shipping in that range, Adafruit's > shipping for that product is not gratis. I think the markup on these can > get quite extreme if you purchase them locally after it was subjected to > VAT / import tariffs. I donated the equivalent of $200 figuring while > the frugal option is preferred, if a higher priced option is more > practical & less likely to get held in customs I'd rather have the high > assurance. Don't want to have to purchase twice! :) Thanks for the useful info, Greg! > On the BTC issue, don't want any legal headaches for anyone. Converting > & depositing the funds should still be enough to cover the purchase, > even if it isn't as practical. I leave that choice up to the wallet > owner. Technically though, when you checkout with bitcoin at Adafruit, > it's being converted to USD based on market rate. Not sure how it will > be reflected on the receipt, but if it shows USD value, would that help > from an accounting perspective or no because the originating currency > was bitcoin? For sure it's not a problem the originating currency is BTC. It will, however, raise the question in the authorities' eyes: where did you have USD to pay for that product? No bank statement showing you had that money. Next question from the authorities: do you have a separate deposit you are not declaring? The answer would be yes, we have a separate wallet, in BTC. :-P -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 3 15:37:33 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 12:37:33 -0300 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <5638D4BD.4090400@riseup.net> On 11/03/2015 04:58 AM, fauno wrote: > emulatorman, is there some tax exemption for foundations or ngo in > uruguay? is there a free software friendly org that can help us? i > think ceata would be able to transfer the money if it's received by an > entity instead of a natural person, am i right? Uruguay accepts international help/donations and you don't need pay the taxes, however under some requirements: Option 1 - Standard Int'l Shipping: * Don't exceeds U$S 50 * Full invoice value declaration from sender about the product (recipient needs declare it to customs website from his/her account) * Don't exceeds 20 Kg * Tracking Number (optional) Option 2 - Express Mail Service EMS (eg. Federal Express): * Don't exceed U$S 200 *** * Full invoice value declaration from sender about the product (recipient needs declare it to customs website from his/her account) * Don't exceeds 20 Kg * Tracking Number (optional) *** invoice value + insurance and freight until entering into Uruguay There's a pdf [0] about new Uruguayan custom law that explains better the options and procedure available about help/donations and online purchases. Otherwise, i like the idea about receive the shipment by an entity instead of a natural person, maybe there are another better options for it. [0]:http://www.aduanas.gub.uy/innovaportal/file/13243/1/nuevo_procedimiento_para_compras_y_envios_arribados_por_correo_nacional_version_web_2015.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 3 15:44:58 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 12:44:58 -0300 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5638D67A.9070905@riseup.net> On 11/02/2015 11:31 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > Well, since coadde needs a BeagleBone Black to continue GRUB porting for > ARMv7, i've created the final budget with the essential parts needed for it: > > * Beaglebone Black Board > * USB to TTL Cable > * Heatsink > * 5V 2A Power Supply > > A user from eBay [0] sells a kit that includes all it + 8G TF Card + > Mini USB at U$S 72.10. Otherwise, customs tax is 60% [1] and we should > include it to the budget too. > Therefore, the final budget is: > > U$S 72.10 (Beaglebone Black kit) > U$S 43.26 (customs tax) > > Total: U$S 115.359 > > Since eBay accepts PayPal payments and we have a PayPal account [2], we > could transfer the money from Parabola to my mother PayPal account to > buy it and speed up the procedure. > > [0]:http://www.ebay.com/itm/BeagleBone-Black-Rev-C-DIY-4GB-512MB-AM335X-Single-Board-Platform-Kit-/171815071552?hash=item2800f9ef40:g:SXwAAOSwo0JWMyRf > [1]:http://www.aduanas.gub.uy/innovaportal/file/13243/1/nuevo_procedimiento_para_compras_y_envios_arribados_por_correo_nacional_version_web_2015.pdf > [2]:https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2015-November/003438.html > Since this listing [0] was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available, i found another one [1] with similar kit needed (mainly USB to TTL cable) to coadde continue his development. [0]:http://www.ebay.com/itm/BeagleBone-Black-Rev-C-DIY-4GB-512MB-AM335X-Single-Board-Platform-Kit-/171815071552?hash=item2800f9ef40:g:SXwAAOSwo0JWMyRf [1]:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Element-14-Beaglebone-Black-Rev-C-4-GB-512-MB-AM335x-Cortex-A8-Single-Board-/221761289000?hash=item33a200bb28:g:7B4AAOSwMmBVzD6R -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 3 15:58:19 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 12:58:19 -0300 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <5638BA89.3030104@ceata.org> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5638B3F9.8040406@ceata.org> <5638BA89.3030104@ceata.org> Message-ID: <5638D99B.30803@riseup.net> On 11/03/2015 10:45 AM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: > On 03.11.2015 15:38, Greg Tomko wrote: >> Quite a few places have the Beaglebone Black between 50 & 60 USD [1] [2] >> [3] [4], a few even have free shipping in that range, Adafruit's >> shipping for that product is not gratis. I think the markup on these can >> get quite extreme if you purchase them locally after it was subjected to >> VAT / import tariffs. I donated the equivalent of $200 figuring while >> the frugal option is preferred, if a higher priced option is more >> practical & less likely to get held in customs I'd rather have the high >> assurance. Don't want to have to purchase twice! :) > > Thanks for the useful info, Greg! > Excellent and useful info Greg, thanks!!! I like specially the BeagleBone Black kit from Netgate store [0], however we should looking for the USB to TTL cable that is needed for coadde too. [0]:http://store.netgate.com/BBB/StarterKit.aspx?gclid=CJ3yv4is9MgCFc-RHwodgqUE5Q -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 3 16:17:58 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 13:17:58 -0300 Subject: [Dev] BeagleBone final budget to begin GRUB porting for ARMv7 In-Reply-To: <5638D4BD.4090400@riseup.net> References: <56381C78.405@riseup.net> <563845B9.50800@ceata.org> <56384DC6.5050302@riseup.net> <56384F0C.2040101@ceata.org> <56385E75.2060707@riseup.net> <87y4efms4f.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5638D4BD.4090400@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5638DE36.8010407@riseup.net> On 11/03/2015 12:37 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: > On 11/03/2015 04:58 AM, fauno wrote: >> emulatorman, is there some tax exemption for foundations or ngo in >> uruguay? is there a free software friendly org that can help us? i >> think ceata would be able to transfer the money if it's received by an >> entity instead of a natural person, am i right? > > Uruguay accepts international help/donations and you don't need pay > the taxes, however under some requirements: > > Option 1 - Standard Int'l Shipping: > > * Don't exceeds U$S 50 > * Full invoice value declaration from sender about the product > (recipient needs declare it to customs website from his/her account) > * Don't exceeds 20 Kg > * Tracking Number (optional) > > Option 2 - Express Mail Service EMS (eg. Federal Express): > > * Don't exceed U$S 200 *** > * Full invoice value declaration from sender about the product > (recipient needs declare it to customs website from his/her account) > * Don't exceeds 20 Kg > * Tracking Number (optional) > > *** invoice value + insurance and freight until entering into Uruguay > Another requirement for both options: * Don't exceeds 5 shipments by year -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 3 16:53:17 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 13:53:17 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] paypal account ready In-Reply-To: <5637F07E.2020802@ceata.org> References: <87fv0onhlh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5637ED18.8020903@gmail.com> <5637F07E.2020802@ceata.org> Message-ID: <5638E67D.7040402@riseup.net> > You can already make your donation to Parabola by following the link: > > https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=8WJTKB86BR7MA > > I will e-mail fauno the button code for the website (in case the team > wants to insert it). > Tiberiu, could you send me the button code to insert to donations page? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 3 17:07:05 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 14:07:05 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] paypal account ready In-Reply-To: <5638E67D.7040402@riseup.net> References: <87fv0onhlh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5637ED18.8020903@gmail.com> <5637F07E.2020802@ceata.org> <5638E67D.7040402@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5638E9B9.5010006@riseup.net> On 11/03/2015 01:53 PM, Andr? Silva wrote: >> You can already make your donation to Parabola by following the link: >> >> https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=8WJTKB86BR7MA >> >> I will e-mail fauno the button code for the website (in case the team >> wants to insert it). >> > > Tiberiu, could you send me the button code to insert to donations page? I mean it to speed up the procedure and save the time of fauno. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Tue Nov 3 23:08:26 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 23:08:26 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [linux-libre] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151103230826.19581.54797@parabola.nu> jdoe at example.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * linux-libre 4.2.5_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre/ * linux-libre 4.2.5_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre/ * linux-libre 4.2.5_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre/ * linux-libre-docs 4.2.5_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-docs/ * linux-libre-docs 4.2.5_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-docs/ * linux-libre-docs 4.2.5_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-docs/ * linux-libre-headers 4.2.5_gnu-1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/linux-libre-headers/ * linux-libre-headers 4.2.5_gnu-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/linux-libre-headers/ * linux-libre-headers 4.2.5_gnu-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/linux-libre-headers/ The user provided the following additional text: 4.3 is now available. From elcorreo at deshackra.com Wed Nov 4 00:17:32 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:17:32 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> This is also for Luke: Firefox's Hello feature works in a client-server architecture fashion (Like the SIP or XMPP protocol, but that doesn't mean that we should ban Linphone or any Jabber client because they relay in a SaaSS services (wat?!)), and I see hard to think that because I cannot "switch" to another provider for Hello it means that I have lost any of my four freedoms. BTW, the code of the backend is here[1], who wants to convince the FSF or the SFC to mount a Loop (Hello) server? [1]: https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server El lunes 02 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1538 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Wed Nov 4 01:43:56 2015 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 01:43:56 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> On 04/11/15 00:17, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > This is also for Luke: Firefox's Hello feature works in a client-server architecture fashion (Like > the SIP or XMPP protocol, but that doesn't mean that we should ban Linphone or any Jabber client > because they relay in a SaaSS services (wat?!)), and I see hard to think that because I cannot > "switch" to another provider for Hello it means that I have lost any of my four freedoms. > > BTW, the code of the backend is here[1], who wants to convince the FSF or the SFC to mount a Loop (Hello) server? > > [1]: https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server > > El lunes 02 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1538 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: > >> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Dev mailing list >> Dev at lists.parabola.nu >> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > ' How do I run it? ' Be sure to edit the content of config/dev.json. You'll especially need to specify your TokBox credentials." [1] ' TokBox is a PaaS (Platform as a Service) company that provides hosted infrastructure, APIs and tools required to deliver enterprise-grade WebRTC capabilities. It does so primarily through its proprietary OpenTok video platform for commercial application. [2] Therefore, by the looks of things, not only is is SaaS, but it's proprietary SaaS. [1] https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokbox From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Wed Nov 4 08:38:43 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 09:38:43 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <563871DD.8000007@pelzflorian.de> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> <5637F59D.8060109@openmailbox.org> <563871DD.8000007@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <5639C413.1050003@pelzflorian.de> Replying to myself, On 11/03/2015 09:35 AM, Florian Pelz wrote: > Clear criteria would help. Is libre only about the four freedoms, i.e. > use of a free software license? What is nonprism about, e.g. should > ekiga be blacklisted in your-privacy because it does not support > encryption yet? > I want criteria. Who can decide on such things? If you want proposals for criteria, I propose the four freedoms for libre and for nonprism either a) easy end-to-end encryption or b) encryption to the provider/server and ability to choose and be your own provider/server (at reasonable cost) without reliance on other providers/servers or proprietary software. I.e. Hello could be in libre and if it had end-to-end encryption it could be in nonprism. Unless of course there really are freedom issues with its icon, but replacing that does not sound like a huge problem. From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Wed Nov 4 08:50:32 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 09:50:32 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <5639C413.1050003@pelzflorian.de> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> <5637F59D.8060109@openmailbox.org> <563871DD.8000007@pelzflorian.de> <5639C413.1050003@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <5639C6D8.2090905@pelzflorian.de> On 11/04/2015 09:38 AM, Florian Pelz wrote: > If you want proposals for criteria, I propose the four freedoms for > libre and [?] Which of course is not enough for the Free System Distribution Guidelines, so I propose both the four freedoms and https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html for libre. That is the FSDG plus no non-free "non-functional data". From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Wed Nov 4 09:04:47 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 10:04:47 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <5639C413.1050003@pelzflorian.de> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> <5637F59D.8060109@openmailbox.org> <563871DD.8000007@pelzflorian.de> <5639C413.1050003@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <5639CA2F.7060001@pelzflorian.de> On 11/04/2015 09:38 AM, Florian Pelz wrote: > and for nonprism either a) easy end-to-end encryption Second amendment: Whenever I say encryption, I mean reasonably secure (to our knowledge) encryption, i.e. not like Skype. Of course the libre criteria apply for nonprism as well. From nobody at parabola.nu Wed Nov 4 10:23:23 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 10:23:23 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151104102323.324.63424@parabola.nu> etfaker at bestmail.ws wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * iceweasel 1:41.0.2.deb1-3 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel/ * iceweasel 1:41.0.2.deb1-3 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel/ * iceweasel-debug 1:41.0.2.deb1-3 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel-debug/ * iceweasel-debug 1:41.0.2.deb1-3 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel-debug/ The user provided the following additional text: Version 42 is out with great improvements as well as a x64 version. From nobody at parabola.nu Wed Nov 4 12:24:36 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 12:24:36 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [pandoc-static] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151104122436.1659.9519@parabola.nu> runical at gmx.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * pandoc-static 1.15.0.6-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/pandoc-static/ The user provided the following additional text: Version 1.15.1 was released a while back From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Wed Nov 4 16:04:32 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:04:32 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <5639C6D8.2090905@pelzflorian.de> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> <5637F59D.8060109@openmailbox.org> <563871DD.8000007@pelzflorian.de> <5639C413.1050003@pelzflorian.de> <5639C6D8.2090905@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <87bnb9px7z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Florian Pelz writes: > On 11/04/2015 09:38 AM, Florian Pelz wrote: >> If you want proposals for criteria, I propose the four freedoms for >> libre and [?] > > Which of course is not enough for the Free System Distribution > Guidelines, so I propose both the four freedoms and > > https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html > > for libre. That is the FSDG plus no non-free "non-functional data". our criteria is the parabola social contract (which you can find on the wiki). i think the issues brought here are more political/etical than technical. "msn in pidgin is ok" because even though it interacts with a non-free service it does so because otherwise you'd have to use the non-free client too. (this discussion is moot since msn is dead anyway, but it always comes back.) "hello in firefox" is the current discussion. even though it's free software, it only works with an unfree api and it's useless without it. and since people think mozilla is free software, is assumed that hello is too, when it doesn't. this to me is what makes it dangerous and non-compliant with our criteria. our criteria isn't to forbid, but to not provide (i think of it as a boycott.) are we providing iceweasel in a way that forbids people from activating hello if they want? -- http://partidopirata.com.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From elcorreo at deshackra.com Wed Nov 4 18:03:59 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 12:03:59 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> You mean, PaaS. PaaS != SaaSS. I cannot find anything on gnu.org or fsf.org regarding PaaS as something unacceptably evil in regard to user's four freedoms. One could argue that from the privacy point of view is good enough reasons to have a Nonprism version of Iceweasel with Firefox Hello disabled. Besides, it seems that everything one have to do is to change the WebRTC backend and adapt loop server's code and you are done, I bet Mozilla is accepting patches for allowing this. In any case, I don't think this as a reason to disable Firefox Hello feature, outside of Nonprism. El martes 03 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1943 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: > On 04/11/15 00:17, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >> This is also for Luke: Firefox's Hello feature works in a client-server architecture fashion (Like >> the SIP or XMPP protocol, but that doesn't mean that we should ban Linphone or any Jabber client >> because they relay in a SaaSS services (wat?!)), and I see hard to think that because I cannot >> "switch" to another provider for Hello it means that I have lost any of my four freedoms. >> >> BTW, the code of the backend is here[1], who wants to convince the FSF or the SFC to mount a Loop (Hello) server? >> >> [1]: https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server >> >> El lunes 02 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1538 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: >> >>> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Dev mailing list >>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu >>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev >> > > ' How do I run it? > ' Be sure to edit the content of config/dev.json. You'll especially > need to specify your TokBox credentials." [1] > > > ' TokBox is a PaaS (Platform as a Service) company that provides hosted > infrastructure, APIs and tools required to deliver enterprise-grade > WebRTC capabilities. It does so primarily through its proprietary > OpenTok video platform for commercial application. [2] > > Therefore, by the looks of things, not only is is SaaS, but it's > proprietary SaaS. > > [1] https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server > [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokbox -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Wed Nov 4 18:11:43 2015 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 18:11:43 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> I mean it's proprietary (or semi-free) software as a service; that only works with proprietary software. The loop-server uses a non-free API. On 04/11/15 18:03, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > You mean, PaaS. PaaS != SaaSS. I cannot find anything on gnu.org or fsf.org regarding PaaS as > something unacceptably evil in regard to user's four freedoms. One could argue that from the privacy > point of view is good enough reasons to have a Nonprism version of Iceweasel with Firefox Hello disabled. > > Besides, it seems that everything one have to do is to change the WebRTC backend and adapt loop > server's code and you are done, I bet Mozilla is accepting patches for allowing this. > > In any case, I don't think this as a reason to disable Firefox Hello feature, outside of Nonprism. > > El martes 03 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1943 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: > >> On 04/11/15 00:17, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >>> This is also for Luke: Firefox's Hello feature works in a client-server architecture fashion (Like >>> the SIP or XMPP protocol, but that doesn't mean that we should ban Linphone or any Jabber client >>> because they relay in a SaaSS services (wat?!)), and I see hard to think that because I cannot >>> "switch" to another provider for Hello it means that I have lost any of my four freedoms. >>> >>> BTW, the code of the backend is here[1], who wants to convince the FSF or the SFC to mount a Loop (Hello) server? >>> >>> [1]: https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server >>> >>> El lunes 02 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1538 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: >>> >>>> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Dev mailing list >>>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu >>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev >>> >> >> ' How do I run it? >> ' Be sure to edit the content of config/dev.json. You'll especially >> need to specify your TokBox credentials." [1] >> >> >> ' TokBox is a PaaS (Platform as a Service) company that provides hosted >> infrastructure, APIs and tools required to deliver enterprise-grade >> WebRTC capabilities. It does so primarily through its proprietary >> OpenTok video platform for commercial application. [2] >> >> Therefore, by the looks of things, not only is is SaaS, but it's >> proprietary SaaS. >> >> [1] https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server >> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokbox > From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Wed Nov 4 18:35:43 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 19:35:43 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87bnb9px7z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> <5637F59D.8060109@openmailbox.org> <563871DD.8000007@pelzflorian.de> <5639C413.1050003@pelzflorian.de> <5639C6D8.2090905@pelzflorian.de> <87bnb9px7z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <563A4FFF.4060705@pelzflorian.de> On 11/04/2015 05:04 PM, fauno wrote: > our criteria is the parabola social contract (which you can find on the > wiki). > I want criteria so these political decisions can mostly be made based on Parabola policy and not vague ideas and long discussions. If the Social Contract is all criteria there is for libre, then that would allow a) some kinds of non-free "non-functional data" such as not fully free art (cf. the Free System Distribution Guidelines [1]) and it might also allow b) SaaSS like Firefox Hello. While Stallman describes SaaSS as taking away freedom, I fail to see how the FSDG make it forbidden, so Hello should be allowed in libre. The Social Contract also says nothing about nonprism. I think my proposed criteria for nonprism are appropriate. [1] https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html From elcorreo at deshackra.com Wed Nov 4 19:33:37 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:33:37 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> How does a "nonfree API" can affect my four freedoms if I don't run/execute the stack (OpenTok plus whatever) on my machine? what does "nonfree API" means anyway?! It means "something that affect your software freedom[1] despite the fact that someone else is running that software for you on other machine that isn't yours"? (am I making my argument clear at least?) [1]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html El mi?rcoles 04 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1211 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: > I mean it's proprietary (or semi-free) software as a service; that only > works with proprietary software. The loop-server uses a non-free API. > > On 04/11/15 18:03, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >> You mean, PaaS. PaaS != SaaSS. I cannot find anything on gnu.org or fsf.org regarding PaaS as >> something unacceptably evil in regard to user's four freedoms. One could argue that from the privacy >> point of view is good enough reasons to have a Nonprism version of Iceweasel with Firefox Hello disabled. >> >> Besides, it seems that everything one have to do is to change the WebRTC backend and adapt loop >> server's code and you are done, I bet Mozilla is accepting patches for allowing this. >> >> In any case, I don't think this as a reason to disable Firefox Hello feature, outside of Nonprism. >> >> El martes 03 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1943 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: >> >>> On 04/11/15 00:17, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >>>> This is also for Luke: Firefox's Hello feature works in a client-server architecture fashion (Like >>>> the SIP or XMPP protocol, but that doesn't mean that we should ban Linphone or any Jabber client >>>> because they relay in a SaaSS services (wat?!)), and I see hard to think that because I cannot >>>> "switch" to another provider for Hello it means that I have lost any of my four freedoms. >>>> >>>> BTW, the code of the backend is here[1], who wants to convince the FSF or the SFC to mount a Loop (Hello) server? >>>> >>>> [1]: https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server >>>> >>>> El lunes 02 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1538 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: >>>> >>>>> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Dev mailing list >>>>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu >>>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev >>>> >>> >>> ' How do I run it? >>> ' Be sure to edit the content of config/dev.json. You'll especially >>> need to specify your TokBox credentials." [1] >>> >>> >>> ' TokBox is a PaaS (Platform as a Service) company that provides hosted >>> infrastructure, APIs and tools required to deliver enterprise-grade >>> WebRTC capabilities. It does so primarily through its proprietary >>> OpenTok video platform for commercial application. [2] >>> >>> Therefore, by the looks of things, not only is is SaaS, but it's >>> proprietary SaaS. >>> >>> [1] https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server >>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokbox >> -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Wed Nov 4 20:14:06 2015 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:14:06 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> You are looking at firefox hello, and thinking "that's free software", whereas I am looking at firefox hello, loop-server and tokbox and thinking "that's non-free software". A system can be useless if it's missing a part, and without TokBox, firefox hello is nothing. Therefore, I don't feel there is much of an argument to be had. Firefox hello is non-free or semi-free software. TokBox does not grant it's users the four freedoms. And requiring someone to set up a loop-server so that you can use firefox hello, would get rid of the person who is running that server's freedoms. Personally, I am glad this has been removed from Iceweasel, it means nobody loses their freedom. On 04/11/15 19:33, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > How does a "nonfree API" can affect my four freedoms if I don't run/execute the stack (OpenTok plus > whatever) on my machine? what does "nonfree API" means anyway?! It means "something that affect your > software freedom[1] despite the fact that someone else is running that software for you on other > machine that isn't yours"? > > (am I making my argument clear at least?) > > [1]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > > El mi?rcoles 04 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1211 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: > >> I mean it's proprietary (or semi-free) software as a service; that only >> works with proprietary software. The loop-server uses a non-free API. >> >> On 04/11/15 18:03, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >>> You mean, PaaS. PaaS != SaaSS. I cannot find anything on gnu.org or fsf.org regarding PaaS as >>> something unacceptably evil in regard to user's four freedoms. One could argue that from the privacy >>> point of view is good enough reasons to have a Nonprism version of Iceweasel with Firefox Hello disabled. >>> >>> Besides, it seems that everything one have to do is to change the WebRTC backend and adapt loop >>> server's code and you are done, I bet Mozilla is accepting patches for allowing this. >>> >>> In any case, I don't think this as a reason to disable Firefox Hello feature, outside of Nonprism. >>> >>> El martes 03 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1943 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: >>> >>>> On 04/11/15 00:17, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >>>>> This is also for Luke: Firefox's Hello feature works in a client-server architecture fashion (Like >>>>> the SIP or XMPP protocol, but that doesn't mean that we should ban Linphone or any Jabber client >>>>> because they relay in a SaaSS services (wat?!)), and I see hard to think that because I cannot >>>>> "switch" to another provider for Hello it means that I have lost any of my four freedoms. >>>>> >>>>> BTW, the code of the backend is here[1], who wants to convince the FSF or the SFC to mount a Loop (Hello) server? >>>>> >>>>> [1]: https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server >>>>> >>>>> El lunes 02 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1538 horas, Josh Branning escribi?: >>>>> >>>>>> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Dev mailing list >>>>>> Dev at lists.parabola.nu >>>>>> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev >>>>> >>>> >>>> ' How do I run it? >>>> ' Be sure to edit the content of config/dev.json. You'll especially >>>> need to specify your TokBox credentials." [1] >>>> >>>> >>>> ' TokBox is a PaaS (Platform as a Service) company that provides hosted >>>> infrastructure, APIs and tools required to deliver enterprise-grade >>>> WebRTC capabilities. It does so primarily through its proprietary >>>> OpenTok video platform for commercial application. [2] >>>> >>>> Therefore, by the looks of things, not only is is SaaS, but it's >>>> proprietary SaaS. >>>> >>>> [1] https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server >>>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokbox >>> > From mtjm at mtjm.eu Wed Nov 4 20:30:17 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 21:30:17 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> (Josh Branning's message of "Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:14:06 +0000") References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> > A system can be useless if it's missing a part, and without TokBox, > firefox hello is nothing. Therefore, I don't feel there is much of an > argument to be had. Firefox hello is non-free or semi-free software. We can apply the same argument to any other communication software. E.g. IRC is useless without other humans, they aren't free software. > TokBox does not grant it's users the four freedoms. And requiring > someone to set up a loop-server so that you can use firefox hello, > would get rid of the person who is running that server's freedoms. Not true: loop-server operator wouldn't run a copy of TokBox's software. The free software on their computer would communicate with external services (which "aren't free or nonfree" and which cannot be replaced by local software: it's not SaaSS). > Personally, I am glad this has been removed from Iceweasel, it means > nobody loses their freedom. Except for all people who will use Skype or various other things with nonfree client-side code instead. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com Wed Nov 4 20:38:08 2015 From: lovell.joshyyy at gmail.com (Josh Branning) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:38:08 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <563A6CB0.3020901@gmail.com> On 04/11/15 20:30, Micha? Mas?owski wrote: >> A system can be useless if it's missing a part, and without TokBox, >> firefox hello is nothing. Therefore, I don't feel there is much of an >> argument to be had. Firefox hello is non-free or semi-free software. > > We can apply the same argument to any other communication software. > E.g. IRC is useless without other humans, they aren't free software. > You can set up a free IRC server, depending on entirely free software. You can't set up a firefox hello server depending on entirely free software. >> TokBox does not grant it's users the four freedoms. And requiring >> someone to set up a loop-server so that you can use firefox hello, >> would get rid of the person who is running that server's freedoms. > > Not true: loop-server operator wouldn't run a copy of TokBox's software. > The free software on their computer would communicate with external > services (which "aren't free or nonfree" and which cannot be replaced by > local software: it's not SaaSS). > TokBox is proprietary (non-free), and in the way you've described it, it certainly sounds like SaaSS. My point was, that someone, somewhere, has to run proprietary software on their machines in order to get FFH to work, and that's a bad thing. >> Personally, I am glad this has been removed from Iceweasel, it means >> nobody loses their freedom. > > Except for all people who will use Skype or various other things with > nonfree client-side code instead. > Or any other free service/protocols, which has free clients/servers. From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Wed Nov 4 20:42:46 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:42:46 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <563A6DC6.7040305@pelzflorian.de> Do you agree that the Social Contract is the sole base for the your-freedom blacklist? Because if all agree, this discussion should be about compliance with the Social Contract and not about SaaSS. From mtjm at mtjm.eu Wed Nov 4 21:02:40 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 22:02:40 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <563A6CB0.3020901@gmail.com> (Josh Branning's message of "Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:38:08 +0000") References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A6CB0.3020901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87egg5wk9b.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> > You can set up a free IRC server, depending on entirely free > software. You can't set up a firefox hello server depending on > entirely free software. Both are free but communicate with something on external servers. You cannot know if TokBox runs free software or not on their servers. > TokBox is proprietary (non-free), and in the way you've described it, > it certainly sounds like SaaSS. It's impossible for communication services to be SaaSS according to the definition at [0]. [0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html > My point was, that someone, somewhere, has to run proprietary software > on their machines in order to get FFH to work, and that's a bad thing. Someone already runs it (or not), no one else would need to run it too. But if the service was slower and with random delay, it would be completely ok: we wouldn't know if it uses software or humans to perform its API requests. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From g4jc at openmailbox.org Wed Nov 4 22:42:37 2015 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 17:42:37 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87egg5wk9b.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A6CB0.3020901@gmail.com> <87egg5wk9b.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <563A89DD.8050203@openmailbox.org> They should provide a libre API, and allow true federation - people could host their own Hello Servers w/ open Authentication. Until that is possible, it's pretty well locked down. The good news is, Tox is a very good and user-friendly replacement. There's also Jitsi and SIP. >> My point was, that someone, somewhere, has to run proprietary software >> on their machines in order to get FFH to work, and that's a bad thing. > Someone already runs it (or not), no one else would need to run it too. > > But if the service was slower and with random delay, it would be > completely ok: we wouldn't know if it uses software or humans to perform > its API requests. > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From elcorreo at deshackra.com Thu Nov 5 01:33:11 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 19:33:11 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <563A89DD.8050203@openmailbox.org> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A6CB0.3020901@gmail.com> <87egg5wk9b.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A89DD.8050203@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <877flx5iy0.fsf@abril.charola> I really hate the next phrase, because when someone else says it sounds pedantic, but here it comes: patches are welcome. There is nothing inherently bad with loop-server that forbids anyone to modify its source code (or to exercise any of the other three freedoms) to make loop-server work with any Free Software WebRTC backend, so, nobody is *really* lock because there is nothing legally speaking that prevents someone with the knowledge to do the mentioned changes. Objectively speaking, we are dealing with Free[1] Software[2]. Tox looks awesome, however, people is damn lazy. FH is convenient not just for anyone using a Firefox-based browser but because people can chat with the user even if they don't use Firefox, people wouldn't mind opening a link to do some VoIP chat. But if you say "hey, contact me here, this is my SIP address" they will complain, get mad and ask you if you have Skype, because, again: people is daaamn lazy. Sometimes that laziness puts me like Jack Nicholson in the movie The Shinning. It just drives me crazy. [1]: http://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/components/loop [2]: https://github.com/mozilla-services/loop-server El mi?rcoles 04 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1642 horas, Luke escribi?: > They should provide a libre API, and allow true federation - people > could host their own Hello Servers w/ open Authentication. Until that is > possible, it's pretty well locked down. > > The good news is, Tox is a very good and user-friendly replacement. > There's also Jitsi and SIP. > >>> My point was, that someone, somewhere, has to run proprietary software >>> on their machines in order to get FFH to work, and that's a bad thing. >> Someone already runs it (or not), no one else would need to run it too. >> >> But if the service was slower and with random delay, it would be >> completely ok: we wouldn't know if it uses software or humans to perform >> its API requests. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Dev mailing list >> Dev at lists.parabola.nu >> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From elcorreo at deshackra.com Thu Nov 5 01:35:23 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 19:35:23 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <87611h5iuc.fsf@abril.charola> http://media.giphy.com/media/AeWoyE3ZT90YM/giphy.gif El mi?rcoles 04 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1430 horas, Micha? Mas?owski escribi?: >> A system can be useless if it's missing a part, and without TokBox, >> firefox hello is nothing. Therefore, I don't feel there is much of an >> argument to be had. Firefox hello is non-free or semi-free software. > > We can apply the same argument to any other communication software. > E.g. IRC is useless without other humans, they aren't free software. > >> TokBox does not grant it's users the four freedoms. And requiring >> someone to set up a loop-server so that you can use firefox hello, >> would get rid of the person who is running that server's freedoms. > > Not true: loop-server operator wouldn't run a copy of TokBox's software. > The free software on their computer would communicate with external > services (which "aren't free or nonfree" and which cannot be replaced by > local software: it's not SaaSS). > >> Personally, I am glad this has been removed from Iceweasel, it means >> nobody loses their freedom. > > Except for all people who will use Skype or various other things with > nonfree client-side code instead. -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Thu Nov 5 04:04:50 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 01:04:50 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <563A4FFF.4060705@pelzflorian.de> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <87si4qprw1.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56354F29.9000208@pesari.eu> <87pozupq0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv0ql5zu.fsf@abril.charola> <5635DCF0.5000501@pesari.eu> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637F2C8.80900@pelzflorian.de> <5637F59D.8060109@openmailbox.org> <563871DD.8000007@pelzflorian.de> <5639C413.1050003@pelzflorian.de> <5639C6D8.2090905@pelzflorian.de> <87bnb9px7z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <563A4FFF.4060705@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <87r3k5ay71.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Florian Pelz writes: > On 11/04/2015 05:04 PM, fauno wrote: >> our criteria is the parabola social contract (which you can find on the >> wiki). >> > > I want criteria so these political decisions can mostly be made based on > Parabola policy and not vague ideas and long discussions. > > If the Social Contract is all criteria there is for libre, then that > would allow a) some kinds of non-free "non-functional data" such as not > fully free art (cf. the Free System Distribution Guidelines [1]) and it > might also allow b) SaaSS like Firefox Hello. While Stallman describes > SaaSS as taking away freedom, I fail to see how the FSDG make it > forbidden, so Hello should be allowed in libre. > > The Social Contract also says nothing about nonprism. I think my > proposed criteria for nonprism are appropriate. mmm i thought we put it on the social contract that we also support free culture so non optional non modifiable art/data is not considered ok, unlike the fsdg does. (think of cc-nd game art, not gnu fdl covers or unmodifiable sections...) where did we point this out? -- http://librevpn.org.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Thu Nov 5 04:15:57 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 01:15:57 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <877flx5iy0.fsf@abril.charola> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A6CB0.3020901@gmail.com> <87egg5wk9b.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A89DD.8050203@openmailbox.org> <877flx5iy0.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <87oaf9axoi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Jorge Araya Navarro writes: > I really hate the next phrase, because when someone else says it > sounds pedantic, but here it comes: patches are welcome. There is > nothing inherently bad with loop-server that forbids anyone to modify > its source code (or to exercise any of the other three freedoms) to > make loop-server work with any Free Software WebRTC backend, so, > nobody is *really* lock because there is nothing legally speaking that > prevents someone with the knowledge to do the mentioned > changes. Objectively speaking, we are dealing with Free[1] > Software[2]. i think no one is saying that it's impossible to **theoretically** use firefox hello with libre software, just that **currently** it isn't possible without ultimately depending on tokbox's proprietary platform. > Tox looks awesome, however, people is damn lazy. we don't care for lazyness but for software freedom, no? are we removing firefox hello from our iceweasel in a way that prevents people to use it if they want? if we do, i suggest we remove hello in a way that can be enabled by user choice, since there's no proprietary code to remove, just like google safe browsing. (i won't digress on the lazyness of parabola users...) -- http://librevpn.org.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Thu Nov 5 06:45:00 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 03:45:00 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87oaf9axoi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A6CB0.3020901@gmail.com> <87egg5wk9b.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A89DD.8050203@openmailbox.org> <877flx5iy0.fsf@abril.charola> <87oaf9axoi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <563AFAEC.7080400@riseup.net> On 11/05/2015 01:15 AM, fauno wrote: > we don't care for lazyness but for software freedom, no? are we > removing firefox hello from our iceweasel in a way that prevents people > to use it if they want? if we do, i suggest we remove hello in a way > that can be enabled by user choice, since there's no proprietary code to > remove, just like google safe browsing. Currently, i've disabled it and the options in vendor.js [0] and can be enabled by user choice from about:config. However, i can keep it more simple as IceCat devs does [1] [0]:https://projects.parabola.nu/abslibre.git/tree/libre/iceweasel/vendor.js#n192 [1]:http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/gnuzilla.git/tree/data/settings.js#n235 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From elcorreo at deshackra.com Thu Nov 5 20:55:42 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 14:55:42 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Let's revert and move changes introduced by bugs #645 and #677 on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <87oaf9axoi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <871tcb62xz.fsf@abril.charola> <5635E177.9070009@pelzflorian.de> <3148CF57-8CF4-4B03-8B01-BF6191B4B512@deshackra.com> <56363EE5.5010503@pelzflorian.de> <1446419459.26120.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <5636A5E5.7090705@pelzflorian.de> <87twp5j9eh.fsf@abril.charola> <87611kq4n3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87bnbcm7bg.fsf@abril.charola> <5637D7F0.9060104@gmail.com> <874mh2y5zd.fsf@abril.charola> <563962DC.5000108@gmail.com> <87k2pxej5c.fsf@abril.charola> <563A4A5F.9010102@gmail.com> <87io5heezy.fsf@abril.charola> <563A670E.8000009@gmail.com> <87io5hwlra.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A6CB0.3020901@gmail.com> <87egg5wk9b.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <563A89DD.8050203@openmailbox.org> <877flx5iy0.fsf@abril.charola> <87oaf9axoi.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87oaf8xj1t.fsf@abril.charola> Other people than me, duh. FH cannot be enabled by just resetting loop.enabled to true because other required parameters where wiped out as well. El mi?rcoles 04 de noviembre del 2015 a las 2215 horas, fauno escribi?: > Jorge Araya Navarro writes: > >> I really hate the next phrase, because when someone else says it >> sounds pedantic, but here it comes: patches are welcome. There is >> nothing inherently bad with loop-server that forbids anyone to modify >> its source code (or to exercise any of the other three freedoms) to >> make loop-server work with any Free Software WebRTC backend, so, >> nobody is *really* lock because there is nothing legally speaking that >> prevents someone with the knowledge to do the mentioned >> changes. Objectively speaking, we are dealing with Free[1] >> Software[2]. > > i think no one is saying that it's impossible to **theoretically** use > firefox hello with libre software, just that **currently** it isn't > possible without ultimately depending on tokbox's proprietary platform. > >> Tox looks awesome, however, people is damn lazy. > > we don't care for lazyness but for software freedom, no? are we > removing firefox hello from our iceweasel in a way that prevents people > to use it if they want? if we do, i suggest we remove hello in a way > that can be enabled by user choice, since there's no proprietary code to > remove, just like google safe browsing. > > (i won't digress on the lazyness of parabola users...) -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From nobody at parabola.nu Fri Nov 6 01:17:40 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 01:17:40 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [python-pelican] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151106011740.324.92576@parabola.nu> theodoros.for at openmailbox.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * python-pelican 3.5.0-2 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/python-pelican/ The user provided the following additional text: Hello. The package version could be updated so that it pulls the source of the 3.6.3 or 3.6.0 relase instead. From nobody at parabola.nu Sat Nov 7 06:52:06 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2015 06:52:06 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [gcc-lts] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151107065206.322.47326@parabola.nu> mytbk920423 at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * gcc-lts 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/gcc-lts/ * gcc-lts 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/gcc-lts/ * gcc-lts-fortran 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/gcc-lts-fortran/ * gcc-lts-fortran 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/gcc-lts-fortran/ * gcc-lts-go 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/gcc-lts-go/ * gcc-lts-go 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/gcc-lts-go/ * gcc-lts-libs 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/gcc-lts-libs/ * gcc-lts-libs 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/gcc-lts-libs/ * gcc-lts-objc 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/gcc-lts-objc/ * gcc-lts-objc 4.7.3-4 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/gcc-lts-objc/ The user provided the following additional text: gcc 4.7.4 is the latest gcc 4.7 release. From aurelien at hackers.camp Sun Nov 8 16:15:26 2015 From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2015 17:15:26 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Maintaining packages of abslibre up to date Message-ID: <87io5cpiw1.fsf@hackers.camp> Hello hackers! Before AUR4 was AUR3, AUR3 let us use that script https://wiki.parabola.nu/Package_maintainer_guide#Maintaining_Package_on_time_to_stay_up_to_date.21 Now that AUR4 is, it seems there is no efficient solution for package maintainer to know which package are outdated. We have to find a way to adapt that script or other solution to know which package between AUR4 and our repositories are outdated to keep Parabola up to date. Kind regards -- Aur?lien DESBRI?RES -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Sun Nov 8 20:20:30 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2015 20:20:30 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [icecat] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151108202030.741.96240@parabola.nu> jackdon at ruggedinbox.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * icecat 38.3.0_gnu1-5 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat/ * icecat 38.3.0_gnu1-5 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat/ * icecat-debug 38.3.0_gnu1-5 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icecat-debug/ * icecat-debug 38.3.0_gnu1-5 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icecat-debug/ The user provided the following additional text: New version at Trisquel Jenkins: http://jenkins.trisquel.info/icecat/icecat-38.4.0-gnu1.tar.bz2 From franco.masotti at student.unife.it Mon Nov 9 15:11:18 2015 From: franco.masotti at student.unife.it (Franco Masotti) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 16:11:18 +0100 Subject: [Dev] AUR package qutebrowser Message-ID: <20151109151118.GA15818@pc-mini-2.unife.it> Hello everyone, I don't know if this is the right place but I'm going to ask anyway. I used the browser dwb up to a while ago. The problem is that it's unmantained at least since one year. I know that in pcr there is vimprobable2 but it's not as good as dwb. So i found out qutebrowser which is very similar. It seems to be fully libre (however i don't know about dependencies). Is there a way that someone imports it from the AUR to pcr? Thank you. -- Franco Masotti My public key fingerprint: F13C 27D7 EDF0 4F7C 0A9F 1244 9A11 29F0 4019 6B95 Get my public key like this: $ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 40196B95 Use Parabola GNU/Linux-libre: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Mon Nov 9 15:47:13 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 12:47:13 -0300 Subject: [Dev] AUR package qutebrowser In-Reply-To: <20151109151118.GA15818@pc-mini-2.unife.it> References: <20151109151118.GA15818@pc-mini-2.unife.it> Message-ID: <5640C001.2010102@riseup.net> On 11/09/2015 12:11 PM, Franco Masotti wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I don't know if this is the right place but I'm going to ask anyway. > I used the browser dwb up to a while ago. The problem is that it's unmantained > at least since one year. > I know that in pcr there is vimprobable2 but it's not as good as dwb. > So i found out qutebrowser which is very similar. It seems to be fully libre > (however i don't know about dependencies). Is there a way that someone imports > it from the AUR to pcr? I can do it, however i suggest report it as packaging request to labs too [0] [0]:https://labs.parabola.nu/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dantas at airpost.net Mon Nov 9 21:47:14 2015 From: dantas at airpost.net (Bruno Dantas) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 16:47:14 -0500 Subject: [Dev] easier way to donate Message-ID: <56411462.1010700@airpost.net> I wanted to donate to Parabola in October, but do not know how to use bitcoins or faircoins, and a wire transfer costs money. Even the FSF accepts credit card and Paypal donations. Please make it easier for people to donate--I, for one, would contribute often and generously to your excellent project. From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 9 22:07:58 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 19:07:58 -0300 Subject: [Dev] easier way to donate In-Reply-To: <56411462.1010700@airpost.net> References: <56411462.1010700@airpost.net> Message-ID: <87lha6rflt.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> awesome! we just go a paypal account :) https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations Bruno Dantas writes: > I wanted to donate to Parabola in October, but do not know how to use > bitcoins or faircoins, and a wire transfer costs money. Even the FSF > accepts credit card and Paypal donations. Please make it easier for > people to donate--I, for one, would contribute often and generously to > your excellent project. > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- :{ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Mon Nov 9 22:28:41 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 19:28:41 -0300 Subject: [Dev] easier way to donate In-Reply-To: <56411462.1010700@airpost.net> References: <56411462.1010700@airpost.net> Message-ID: <56411E19.209@riseup.net> On 11/09/2015 06:47 PM, Bruno Dantas wrote: > I wanted to donate to Parabola in October, but do not know how to use > bitcoins or faircoins, and a wire transfer costs money. Even the FSF > accepts credit card and Paypal donations. Please make it easier for > people to donate--I, for one, would contribute often and generously to > your excellent project. Thanks for donate Bruno!! you just click to Donate button from our PayPal section in Donations page [0] to proceed to PayPal transfer. [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#PayPal_donations -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Tue Nov 10 08:39:03 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 08:39:03 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [handbrake] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151110083903.666.73338@parabola.nu> alessi at robertalessi.net wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * handbrake 0.10.2-3.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/handbrake/ * handbrake 0.10.2-3.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/handbrake/ * handbrake 0.10.2-3.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/handbrake/ * handbrake-cli 0.10.2-3.parabola1 [libre] (armv7h): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/armv7h/handbrake-cli/ * handbrake-cli 0.10.2-3.parabola1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/handbrake-cli/ * handbrake-cli 0.10.2-3.parabola1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/handbrake-cli/ The user provided the following additional text: Needs to be recompiled with the latest x265. From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Nov 10 13:30:01 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:30:01 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? Message-ID: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> so since there's been some donations in btc to buy the bbb, we were discussing with tiberiu which entity should manage the wallet... * currently, all cash donations are managed by ceata under the fiscal sponsorship agreement i signed for parabola * except for the btc (and the fair) wallet that's being handled by me as parabola delegate. * since btc doesn't need to be fiscally declared, i assumed we didn't need to bother ceata with it. but at the same time it's not under any signed agreement, but your current trust in me. i could use it at my sole discretion or i could not be available anymore. * if ceata were to manage the btc donations, they'd have to convert them to romanian money so it's fiscally declared. * having more than a single entity managing the funds could lead to confusion to where the money is and how it can be handled. so the issue here is which entity should handle the btc donations, the parabola delegate or ceata? -- :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tct at ceata.org Tue Nov 10 13:40:13 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 15:40:13 +0200 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <5641F3BD.6070505@ceata.org> On 10.11.2015 15:30, fauno wrote: > * since btc doesn't need to be fiscally declared Just a short comment on this statement. All income has to be declared according to the law. Quoting Richard: "On the other hand, there is a potential problem with bitcoin, which is, it might get used for tax evasion. I?m not in favor of tax evasion" https://www.rt.com/news/bitcoin-not-anonymous-stallman-522/ -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From g4jc at openmailbox.org Tue Nov 10 13:46:50 2015 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 08:46:50 -0500 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <5641F54A.8000002@openmailbox.org> I think that having one or two trusted delegates is a good idea, then simply transfer/convert any of the btc needed to the ceata account and report it as fiat when needed. Alternatively, something like BitPay would be nice. I don't think they support anything other than USD currently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitPay On 11/10/2015 08:30 AM, fauno wrote: > so since there's been some donations in btc to buy the bbb, we were > discussing with tiberiu which entity should manage the wallet... > > * currently, all cash donations are managed by ceata under the fiscal > sponsorship agreement i signed for parabola > > * except for the btc (and the fair) wallet that's being handled by me > as parabola delegate. > > * since btc doesn't need to be fiscally declared, i assumed we didn't > need to bother ceata with it. but at the same time it's not under any > signed agreement, but your current trust in me. i could use it at my > sole discretion or i could not be available anymore. > > * if ceata were to manage the btc donations, they'd have to convert them > to romanian money so it's fiscally declared. > > * having more than a single entity managing the funds could lead to > confusion to where the money is and how it can be handled. > > > so the issue here is which entity should handle the btc donations, the > parabola delegate or ceata? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 10 14:07:48 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 11:07:48 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <5641FA34.6060404@riseup.net> On 11/10/2015 10:30 AM, fauno wrote: > so the issue here is which entity should handle the btc donations, the > parabola delegate or ceata? I suggest it be handled by Ceata since they are our official fiscal sponsor. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 10 14:09:04 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 11:09:04 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <5641F3BD.6070505@ceata.org> References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5641F3BD.6070505@ceata.org> Message-ID: <5641FA80.4040502@riseup.net> On 11/10/2015 10:40 AM, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: > On 10.11.2015 15:30, fauno wrote: >> * since btc doesn't need to be fiscally declared > > Just a short comment on this statement. All income has to be declared > according to the law. Quoting Richard: > > "On the other hand, there is a potential problem with bitcoin, which is, > it might get used for tax evasion. I?m not in favor of tax evasion" > > https://www.rt.com/news/bitcoin-not-anonymous-stallman-522/ +1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Tue Nov 10 16:11:50 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 16:11:50 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [dbus-openrc] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151110161150.666.11625@parabola.nu> i500072 at trbvm.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * dbus-openrc 1.10.0-3 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/dbus-openrc/ * dbus-openrc 1.10.0-3 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/dbus-openrc/ The user provided the following additional text: Maintainer, libdbus 1.10.2 breaks dbus-openrc 1.10.0. An update is already available upstream: https://github.com/manjaro/packages-openrc/commit/582dad48f63339b304b1ee9f4e352cf257c339c5 Thank you for all the openrc Parabola packages! From aurelien at hackers.camp Tue Nov 10 17:09:35 2015 From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 18:09:35 +0100 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <5641FA34.6060404@riseup.net> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Andr=C3=A9?= Silva"'s message of "Tue, 10 Nov 2015 11:07:48 -0300") References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5641FA34.6060404@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87y4e5u6gg.fsf@hackers.camp> Andr? Silva writes: > On 11/10/2015 10:30 AM, fauno wrote: >> so the issue here is which entity should handle the btc donations, the >> parabola delegate or ceata? > > I suggest it be handled by Ceata since they are our official fiscal sponsor. Maybe it could be nice to request the FSFLA to do it. That could create strong link in Latin America between Free Software Projects and by the way request for low form of import taxes on Free Software project. It is certainly a long time request, but it could be a nice evolution for knowledge. Kind regards -- Aur?lien DESBRI?RES -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From elcorreo at deshackra.com Wed Nov 11 03:35:04 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 21:35:04 -0600 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <874mgtmcnr.fsf@abril.charola> I have to advice you that there is a possibility that you are not immortal, Fauno, thus if you die those funds wouldn't be available for Parabola. It is better that they are managed by Ceata. El martes 10 de noviembre del 2015 a las 0730 horas, fauno escribi?: > so since there's been some donations in btc to buy the bbb, we were > discussing with tiberiu which entity should manage the wallet... > > * currently, all cash donations are managed by ceata under the fiscal > sponsorship agreement i signed for parabola > > * except for the btc (and the fair) wallet that's being handled by me > as parabola delegate. > > * since btc doesn't need to be fiscally declared, i assumed we didn't > need to bother ceata with it. but at the same time it's not under any > signed agreement, but your current trust in me. i could use it at my > sole discretion or i could not be available anymore. > > * if ceata were to manage the btc donations, they'd have to convert them > to romanian money so it's fiscally declared. > > * having more than a single entity managing the funds could lead to > confusion to where the money is and how it can be handled. > > > so the issue here is which entity should handle the btc donations, the > parabola delegate or ceata? -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From dantas at airpost.net Wed Nov 11 15:03:55 2015 From: dantas at airpost.net (Bruno Dantas) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:03:55 -0500 Subject: [Dev] message during boot on Libreboot system: "DMAR: Failed to map dmar2" Message-ID: <1447254235.3650195.436094065.2ABF2943@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hello, Parabola hackers! This is probably more of a Libreboot question, but I figure enough of you are using Parabola + Libreboot that at least a handful of you have also seen this error. I am running Parabola on a Libreboot T400 that I purchased from Ministry of Freedom. I have not made any changes to Libreboot. Everytime I boot into my Parabola installation, I see this message: "DMAR: Failed to map dmar2". I booted into Parabola's "MATE desktop ISO" just to see what would happen, and the same message scrolls by during the boot process. Once Parabola is fully booted and I'm at the desktop, everything seems to be working fine. Here are the relevant lines from dmesg: bruno at T400 ~ $ dmesg | grep -i dmar [ 0.000000] ACPI: DMAR 0x00000000BDAB9F80 0000A8 (v01 CORE COREBOOT 00000000 CORE 00000000) [ 0.000000] WARNING: CPU: 0 PID: 0 at drivers/iommu/dmar.c:829 warn_invalid_dmar+0x79/0x90() [ 0.000000] Your BIOS is broken; DMAR reported at address fed92000 returns all ones! [ 0.000000] [] warn_invalid_dmar+0x79/0x90 [ 0.000000] [] dmar_validate_one_drhd+0xa5/0xe0 [ 0.000000] [] dmar_walk_remapping_entries+0x82/0x190 [ 0.030126] DMAR: Host address width 40 [ 0.030131] DMAR: DRHD base: 0x000000fed90000 flags: 0x0 [ 0.030140] DMAR: dmar0: reg_base_addr fed90000 ver 1:0 cap c9008020e30260 ecap 1000 [ 0.030142] DMAR: DRHD base: 0x000000fed91000 flags: 0x0 [ 0.030149] DMAR: dmar1: reg_base_addr fed91000 ver 1:0 cap c0000020630260 ecap 1000 [ 0.030151] DMAR: DRHD base: 0x000000fed92000 flags: 0x0 [ 0.030163] DMAR: Failed to map dmar2 [ 0.030169] DMAR: Parse DMAR table failure. [ 0.134662] DMAR: Forcing write-buffer flush capability [ 0.134662] DMAR: Disabling IOMMU for graphics on this chipset What does this DMAR failure mean? Is it fixable? If not, is there a way to make the error stop showing up during boot? I read somewhere that adding iommu=soft to the kernel boot parameters makes the error go away, but that didn't have any effect. Thanks, Bruno From mtjm at mtjm.eu Wed Nov 11 16:11:47 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:11:47 +0100 Subject: [Dev] message during boot on Libreboot system: "DMAR: Failed to map dmar2" In-Reply-To: <1447254235.3650195.436094065.2ABF2943@webmail.messagingengine.com> (Bruno Dantas's message of "Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:03:55 -0500") References: <1447254235.3650195.436094065.2ABF2943@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <87wptofrcs.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> > I am running Parabola on a Libreboot T400 that I purchased from > Ministry of Freedom. I have not made any changes to Libreboot. Ask libreboot's or Ministry of Freedom's support, they should know this issue. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dantas at airpost.net Wed Nov 11 16:25:59 2015 From: dantas at airpost.net (Bruno Dantas) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:25:59 -0500 Subject: [Dev] message during boot on Libreboot system: "DMAR: Failed to map dmar2" In-Reply-To: <87wptofrcs.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> References: <1447254235.3650195.436094065.2ABF2943@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87wptofrcs.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <56436C17.2000100@airpost.net> Thank you. I will try that. On 11/11/2015 11:11 AM, Micha? Mas?owski wrote: >> I am running Parabola on a Libreboot T400 that I purchased from >> Ministry of Freedom. I have not made any changes to Libreboot. > > Ask libreboot's or Ministry of Freedom's support, they should know this > issue. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0x7B2851DE.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 1702 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Thu Nov 12 15:12:19 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 15:12:19 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151112151219.668.33660@parabola.nu> noreply at example.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * iceweasel 1:42.0.deb1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel/ * iceweasel 1:42.0.deb1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel/ * iceweasel-debug 1:42.0.deb1-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel-debug/ * iceweasel-debug 1:42.0.deb1-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel-debug/ The user provided the following additional text: need rebuild for libvpx From dantas at airpost.net Thu Nov 12 13:48:26 2015 From: dantas at airpost.net (Bruno Dantas) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 08:48:26 -0500 Subject: [Dev] message during boot on Libreboot system: "DMAR: Failed to map dmar2" In-Reply-To: <87wptofrcs.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> References: <1447254235.3650195.436094065.2ABF2943@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87wptofrcs.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <564498AA.3030903@airpost.net> I found that intremap=off kernel boot parameter makes the error go away. Gory details in my second post to the Libreboot mailing list. See here: https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2015-11/threads.html From elcorreo at deshackra.com Thu Nov 12 19:53:51 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:53:51 -0600 Subject: [Dev] message during boot on Libreboot system: "DMAR: Failed to map dmar2" In-Reply-To: <564498AA.3030903@airpost.net> References: <1447254235.3650195.436094065.2ABF2943@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87wptofrcs.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <564498AA.3030903@airpost.net> Message-ID: <87k2pn5700.fsf@abril.charola> Glad to know your issue is solved now! El jueves 12 de noviembre del 2015 a las 0748 horas, Bruno Dantas escribi?: > I found that intremap=off kernel boot parameter makes the error go away. > > Gory details in my second post to the Libreboot mailing list. See here: https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2015-11/threads.html > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Fri Nov 13 13:06:28 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:06:28 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Fwd: [arch-dev-public] Xorg 1.18.0 enters [testing]. Message-ID: <87pozejbfv.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> fyi -- http://partidopirata.com.ar -------------------- Start of forwarded message -------------------- From: Laurent Carlier Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:44:36 +0100 Subject: [arch-dev-public] Xorg 1.18.0 enters [testing]. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------------- End of forwarded message -------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Fri Nov 13 14:19:08 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 14:19:08 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Kernels package [xen] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151113141908.666.51212@parabola.nu> korobkov at fryxell.info wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: The user provided the following additional text: Please, update to 4.6 http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.6_Release_Notes From nobody at parabola.nu Fri Nov 13 14:19:51 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 14:19:51 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Kernels package [xen-docs] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151113141951.322.59369@parabola.nu> korobkov at fryxell.info wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: The user provided the following additional text: Please, update to 4.6 http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_4.6_Release_Notes From dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com Sun Nov 15 17:09:47 2015 From: dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com (Dika Setya Prayogi) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 00:09:47 +0700 Subject: [Dev] new parabola releases Message-ID: Coll a new parabola ISO's has been released. can we make each parabola new release to be writed down in parabola latest news ? so people will know without checking download page every time and to show parabola active development I guess -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Sun Nov 15 17:24:02 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 18:24:02 +0100 Subject: [Dev] new parabola releases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5648BFB2.7020103@pelzflorian.de> On 11/15/2015 06:09 PM, Dika Setya Prayogi wrote: > Coll a new parabola ISO's has been released. can we make each parabola new > release to be writed down in parabola latest news ? so people will know > without checking download page every time and to show parabola active > development I guess > I don't see why Parabola users need to know when a new ISO has been released. In most cases, the old ISO works just as well for installing the most current Parabola and there's no need to download a new one. Latest news are important when there is a change that really affects (some) users or is important to know. From g4jc at openmailbox.org Sun Nov 15 19:46:40 2015 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 14:46:40 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns Message-ID: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> Hello, It was brought to my attention over the past week we have been having problems with disk space on the main server. It is grown to exceed 150GB, even after cleaning up old packages. My mirror's maximum size is also just under 200GB. Other mirrors have already died, likely due to the size increase. Down: # Parabola GNU/Linux-libre - Last Updated: Sun Nov 1 19:59:22 GMT 2015 # Location: St Petersburg, Russia Federation # Responsible: 4096R/953311F67B9EAA23 Michael Wolf # Work hours: 24*7 # HTTPS cert SHA1 FF:86:EB:70:14:41:6A:FA:D1:2C:3B:A7:51:FA:0D:71:60:BC:9B:DE Server = https://dgix.ru/mirrors/parabola/$repo/os/$arch # Location: Charlotte, NC, USA # Responsible: 2048R/44BC7D7F49B9A5A4 alfplayer # Work hours: 24*7 Server = http://alfplayer.com/parabola/$repo/os/$arch # Location: Guadalajara, Mexico # Responsible: 4096R/33466E12EC7BA943 Isaac David # Work hours: 24*7 Server = http://parabola.isacdaavid.info:8081/$repo/os/$arch # Location: Milan, Italy # Responsible: 4096R/177A2DB9EA08BF5D Andrey Korobkov # Work hours: 24*7 # HTTPS cert SHA1 24:F2:51:EB:3C:93:AF:FC:87:6C:42:F2:85:51:9E:11:70:3C:3E:8D # Sync source: 15,45 * * * * (UTC) via rsync://mirrors.linux.ro/parabolagnulinux/ Server = https://b.mirrors.fryxell.info/parabolagnulinux/$repo/os/$arch Moving forward we should try to downsize, split the servers, or buy larger space. I am bringing this up as it is currently not possible to add any new packages of considerable size to the main repo. One easy solution to solve the problem would be to remove PCR binaries as they are only used by a very few in the community. We can move to an AUR system which will consume less resources and allow users to easily install their own packages from PCR using some Parabola-like version of yaourt. It's definately a problem we need to get under control. Thanks. Luke -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From elcorreo at deshackra.com Sun Nov 15 20:08:09 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 14:08:09 -0600 Subject: [Dev] new parabola releases In-Reply-To: <5648BFB2.7020103@pelzflorian.de> References: <5648BFB2.7020103@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <878u5z6n6e.fsf@abril.charola> I beg to differ, is known that pacman will not install anything because the developers' public keys aren't registered in pacman's database, many users have reported an issue when trying to install the distribution in their computers. El domingo 15 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1124 horas, Florian Pelz escribi?: > On 11/15/2015 06:09 PM, Dika Setya Prayogi wrote: >> Coll a new parabola ISO's has been released. can we make each parabola new >> release to be writed down in parabola latest news ? so people will know >> without checking download page every time and to show parabola active >> development I guess >> > > I don't see why Parabola users need to know when a new ISO has been > released. In most cases, the old ISO works just as well for installing > the most current Parabola and there's no need to download a new one. > Latest news are important when there is a change that really affects > (some) users or is important to know. > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From elcorreo at deshackra.com Sun Nov 15 20:25:31 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 14:25:31 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, install and modify? it would help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. El domingo 15 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1346 horas, Luke escribi?: > Hello, > It was brought to my attention over the past week we have been having > problems with disk space on the main server. It is grown to exceed > 150GB, even after cleaning up old packages. My mirror's maximum size is > also just under 200GB. Other mirrors have already died, likely due to > the size increase. > > Down: > > # Parabola GNU/Linux-libre - Last Updated: Sun Nov 1 19:59:22 GMT 2015 > > # Location: St Petersburg, Russia Federation > # Responsible: 4096R/953311F67B9EAA23 Michael Wolf > # Work hours: 24*7 > # HTTPS cert SHA1 FF:86:EB:70:14:41:6A:FA:D1:2C:3B:A7:51:FA:0D:71:60:BC:9B:DE > Server = https://dgix.ru/mirrors/parabola/$repo/os/$arch > > # Location: Charlotte, NC, USA > # Responsible: 2048R/44BC7D7F49B9A5A4 alfplayer > # Work hours: 24*7 > Server = http://alfplayer.com/parabola/$repo/os/$arch > > # Location: Guadalajara, Mexico > # Responsible: 4096R/33466E12EC7BA943 Isaac David > # Work hours: 24*7 > Server = http://parabola.isacdaavid.info:8081/$repo/os/$arch > > # Location: Milan, Italy > # Responsible: 4096R/177A2DB9EA08BF5D Andrey Korobkov > # Work hours: 24*7 > # HTTPS cert SHA1 24:F2:51:EB:3C:93:AF:FC:87:6C:42:F2:85:51:9E:11:70:3C:3E:8D > # Sync source: 15,45 * * * * (UTC) via rsync://mirrors.linux.ro/parabolagnulinux/ > Server = https://b.mirrors.fryxell.info/parabolagnulinux/$repo/os/$arch > > > Moving forward we should try to downsize, split the servers, or buy > larger space. I am bringing this up as it is currently not possible to > add any new packages of considerable size to the main repo. > > One easy solution to solve the problem would be to remove PCR binaries > as they are only used by a very few in the community. We can move to an > AUR system which will consume less resources and allow users to easily > install their own packages from PCR using some Parabola-like version of > yaourt. > > It's definately a problem we need to get under control. > > Thanks. > > Luke > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Sun Nov 15 21:03:47 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 22:03:47 +0100 Subject: [Dev] new parabola releases In-Reply-To: <878u5z6n6e.fsf@abril.charola> References: <5648BFB2.7020103@pelzflorian.de> <878u5z6n6e.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <5648F333.5070304@pelzflorian.de> On 11/15/2015 09:08 PM, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > I beg to differ, is known that pacman will not install anything because the developers' public keys > aren't registered in pacman's database, many users have reported an issue when trying to install the > distribution in their computers. > Isn't this covered in the installation guide on the wiki? From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sun Nov 15 21:06:54 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 18:06:54 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Jorge Araya Navarro writes: > Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, > install and modify? it would help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. yes it is, we haven't done it because of the effort required to check everything uploaded by users complies with our policies... g4jc: does db-cleanup remove arm packages after all? it would be good to know actual repo sizes, maybe something like: du -Lhd1 path/to/repo/arch -- http://vqfe4xmhxzi7w2uv.onion -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Sun Nov 15 21:36:31 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 22:36:31 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <5648FADF.4090205@pelzflorian.de> On 11/15/2015 09:25 PM, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, install and modify? it would > help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. Why make a new AUR? If a liberated package is not interesting to many people, why not put it on the Arch Linux AUR? Are the Arch Linux people against this? If it is interesting enough to support it but not important enough for libre then pcr seems like a good equivalent of community from a user perspective. From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Sun Nov 15 22:01:12 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 23:01:12 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <5648FADF.4090205@pelzflorian.de> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <5648FADF.4090205@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <564900A8.6090801@pelzflorian.de> On 11/15/2015 10:36 PM, Florian Pelz wrote: > On 11/15/2015 09:25 PM, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >> Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, install and modify? it would >> help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. > > Why make a new AUR? If a liberated package is not interesting to many > people, why not put it on the Arch Linux AUR? Are the Arch Linux people > against this? If it is interesting enough to support it but not > important enough for libre then pcr seems like a good equivalent of > community from a user perspective. > Okay I see now: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/assist/2014-July/000265.html Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli wrote: > If I understand it, [yaourt is] a package manager for AUR, which > permits to install many free and non-free software. > I guess it's not in parabola because it promotes the > installation of non-free software. > > The way to get software that is in aur in parabola is to make > parabola developers package it in pcr. > That way the freedom of that package is checked. That problem could be solved with an AUR blacklist, but I can talk much as long as I don't have the time to work on it myself. From dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com Mon Nov 16 02:55:30 2015 From: dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com (Dika Setya Prayogi) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 09:55:30 +0700 Subject: [Dev] new parabola releases In-Reply-To: <5648F333.5070304@pelzflorian.de> References: <5648BFB2.7020103@pelzflorian.de> <878u5z6n6e.fsf@abril.charola> <5648F333.5070304@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: > I don't see why Parabola users need to know when a new ISO has been released well there is some type of people who are lazy to configuring their distro and prefer reinstalling new configured iso in preserved partition, and that people including me *laugh* From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Mon Nov 16 07:15:47 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 08:15:47 +0100 Subject: [Dev] new parabola releases In-Reply-To: References: <5648BFB2.7020103@pelzflorian.de> <878u5z6n6e.fsf@abril.charola> <5648F333.5070304@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <564982A3.2070409@pelzflorian.de> On 11/16/2015 03:55 AM, Dika Setya Prayogi wrote: >> I don't see why Parabola users need to know > when a new ISO has been released > > well there is some type of people who are lazy to configuring their > distro and prefer reinstalling new configured iso in preserved > partition, and that people including me *laugh* > Hm okay, that is a reason. You could watch the Get_Parabola wiki page so you are notified of any changes to it (via e-mail, if you configure it this way), but that means some other clutter in your e-mail in-box as well. Is that an acceptable alternative? If not, then maybe new releases should really be announced in some way (on the homepage as requested, on a mailing list, ?). From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 16 10:23:59 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 07:23:59 -0300 Subject: [Dev] new parabola releases In-Reply-To: <564982A3.2070409@pelzflorian.de> References: <5648BFB2.7020103@pelzflorian.de> <878u5z6n6e.fsf@abril.charola> <5648F333.5070304@pelzflorian.de> <564982A3.2070409@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <87egfqi6o0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Florian Pelz writes: > On 11/16/2015 03:55 AM, Dika Setya Prayogi wrote: >>> I don't see why Parabola users need to know >> when a new ISO has been released >> >> well there is some type of people who are lazy to configuring their >> distro and prefer reinstalling new configured iso in preserved >> partition, and that people including me *laugh* >> > > Hm okay, that is a reason. You could watch the Get_Parabola wiki page so > you are notified of any changes to it (via e-mail, if you configure it > this way), but that means some other clutter in your e-mail in-box as well. > > Is that an acceptable alternative? If not, then maybe new releases > should really be announced in some way (on the homepage as requested, on > a mailing list, ?). it's possible to create a mediawiki template with the latest version, so if you construct the download urls like this http://repo.parabola.nu/parabola_{{latest_iso_version}}.iso the download page gets updated automatically. right now people making a release has to edit a whole wiki page, which i believe is tiresome :P otherwise, are there new releases? i had to download an iso last week and it was from august. -- http://fauno.endefensadelsl.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com Mon Nov 16 13:13:37 2015 From: dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com (Dika Setya Prayogi) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 20:13:37 +0700 Subject: [Dev] new parabola releases In-Reply-To: <87egfqi6o0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <5648BFB2.7020103@pelzflorian.de> <878u5z6n6e.fsf@abril.charola> <5648F333.5070304@pelzflorian.de> <564982A3.2070409@pelzflorian.de> <87egfqi6o0.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: thank you guys :-) 2015-11-16 17.23 GMT+07.00, fauno : > Florian Pelz writes: > >> On 11/16/2015 03:55 AM, Dika Setya Prayogi wrote: >>>> I don't see why Parabola users need to know >>> when a new ISO has been released >>> >>> well there is some type of people who are lazy to configuring their >>> distro and prefer reinstalling new configured iso in preserved >>> partition, and that people including me *laugh* >>> >> >> Hm okay, that is a reason. You could watch the Get_Parabola wiki page so >> you are notified of any changes to it (via e-mail, if you configure it >> this way), but that means some other clutter in your e-mail in-box as >> well. >> >> Is that an acceptable alternative? If not, then maybe new releases >> should really be announced in some way (on the homepage as requested, on >> a mailing list, ?). > > it's possible to create a mediawiki template with the latest version, so > if you construct the download urls like this > http://repo.parabola.nu/parabola_{{latest_iso_version}}.iso the download > page gets updated automatically. > > right now people making a release has to edit a whole wiki page, which i > believe is tiresome :P > > otherwise, are there new releases? i had to download an iso last week > and it was from august. > > -- > http://fauno.endefensadelsl.org > From g4jc at openmailbox.org Mon Nov 16 13:56:03 2015 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 08:56:03 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> @Fauno: I checked the logs and it shows that db-cleanup is deleting old arm packages as well. @Florian: Blacklisting AUR would be a very large task. It would be easier to whitelist needed packages. Modifying yaourt to point to our own servers shouldn't be too big a task by comparison. On 11/15/2015 04:06 PM, fauno wrote: > Jorge Araya Navarro writes: > >> Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, >> install and modify? it would help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. > yes it is, we haven't done it because of the effort required to check > everything uploaded by users complies with our policies... > > g4jc: does db-cleanup remove arm packages after all? > > it would be good to know actual repo sizes, maybe something like: > > du -Lhd1 path/to/repo/arch > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 16 14:13:48 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 11:13:48 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Luke writes: > @Fauno: I checked the logs and it shows that db-cleanup is deleting old > arm packages as well. ok, what's using the most disk space then? is pcr taking that much? there're many abandoned packages in pcr, maybe we can delete anything that wasn't built this year. but how much space would that free? can you provide these numbers? > @Florian: Blacklisting AUR would be a very large task. It would be > easier to whitelist needed packages. Modifying yaourt to point to our > own servers shouldn't be too big a task by comparison. it's not a technical issue, we can setup a PUR very easily, but we have to review/police (!) the pkgbuilds to comply with our free software policy afterwards. who's willing to do that work? not me! :] it's not only a matter of adding the license to the pkgbuild, there're many mislicensed pkgbuilds on AUR (packager doesn't check/care, etc.) some time ago we discussed adding an "our-freedom" package, which blacklists AUR, so you can use any AUR helper without having to maintain our own infrastructure. i think it's easier to review the top AUR packages for "freedomness" (i'm guessing not many of them are libre...) and work from there. i agree the whitelist approach is better, maybe we could blacklist anything on AUR preventively (!) and start removing packages for our-freedom's conflicts field. i've no idea if pacman would support a single package with thousands of conflicts. maybe our-freedom could be a group, that installs many packages? just throwing ideas around, since i won't have the time to implement them myself :P -- D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 16 16:38:49 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:38:49 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] balance Message-ID: <87oaethpba.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> tct sent me the balance of the account and i transcripted it to the wiki :) https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Expenses_.26_Transactions i'm no expert on accounting so if you think it can be clearer please say so. i think i should add the donations to this list too, no? also, there's been a change on the bbb donations, in the end tct got a romanian vendor to give us one for free, but there was also some expending on cables and sending the package over to emulatorman. -- P) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Mon Nov 16 16:39:49 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 17:39:49 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <564A06D5.5090705@pelzflorian.de> On 11/16/2015 03:13 PM, fauno wrote: > Luke writes: >> @Florian: Blacklisting AUR would be a very large task. It would be >> easier to whitelist needed packages. Modifying yaourt to point to our >> own servers shouldn't be too big a task by comparison. > > it's not a technical issue, we can setup a PUR very easily, but we have > to review/police (!) the pkgbuilds to comply with our free software > policy afterwards. who's willing to do that work? not me! :] > > it's not only a matter of adding the license to the pkgbuild, there're > many mislicensed pkgbuilds on AUR (packager doesn't check/care, etc.) > > some time ago we discussed adding an "our-freedom" package, which > blacklists AUR, so you can use any AUR helper without having to maintain > our own infrastructure. i think it's easier to review the top AUR > packages for "freedomness" (i'm guessing not many of them are libre...) > and work from there. i agree the whitelist approach is better, maybe we > could blacklist anything on AUR preventively (!) and start removing > packages for our-freedom's conflicts field. > > i've no idea if pacman would support a single package with thousands of > conflicts. maybe our-freedom could be a group, that installs many > packages? > A PUR that is set up the same way as AUR may mean that there are packages available in PUR but not in AUR. I don't think we should compete with Arch in that way. I think this would mean duplicate work for both Parabola and Arch. A whitelist has the advantage that an incomplete whitelist is already usable. It is also safer than a blacklist. I like the idea of a whitelist. This would mean making a package / packages with very many conflicts as you say (AUR minus the whitelist), but if that is possible, it seems the easiest way to keep the AUR. Of course, the AUR does contain lots of free software. I don't see a way to filter by license, but I'd guess maybe half of it is free. That's some 15000 packages in a complete whitelist or blacklist. It is possible the pacman / libalpm developers did not consider it important to make pacman handle such conflicts efficiently. It is also possible that 15000 is a low enough number that we need not care. > just throwing ideas around, since i won't have the time to implement > them myself :P > I'd very much like to help, but I'm too busy until March. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 16 16:45:00 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:45:00 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87lh9xhp0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> fauno writes: > so since there's been some donations in btc to buy the bbb, we were > discussing with tiberiu which entity should manage the wallet... ok so far i have three ideas: * btc wallet should be administered by ceata (+2 by emulatorman and shackra) * btc wallet can be handled by two delegates and convert to cash as needed (+1 by g4jc) * ask fsfla to do it (+1 by aurelien) so it's not clear where are we at at this point... i should add we have another cryptowallet in faircoin, and i just noticed someone made a donation of 1000 FAIR to it. this wallet is mine but i have an address for parabola, so if we need to change that i'll have to send the FAIR to another account. -- P) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mtjm at mtjm.eu Mon Nov 16 17:44:05 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 18:44:05 +0100 Subject: [Dev] [donations] balance In-Reply-To: <87oaethpba.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> (fauno@endefensadelsl.org's message of "Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:38:49 -0300") References: <87oaethpba.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87si45g7q2.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> > https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Expenses_.26_Transactions > > i'm no expert on accounting so if you think it can be clearer please say > so. i think i should add the donations to this list too, no? It's completely unreadable for me, but maybe it's since I use ledger for such [0]. [0] http://ledger-cli.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mtjm at mtjm.eu Mon Nov 16 17:44:54 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 18:44:54 +0100 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <87lh9xhp0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> (fauno@endefensadelsl.org's message of "Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:45:00 -0300") References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87lh9xhp0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87oaetg7op.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> > * btc wallet should be administered by ceata (+2 by emulatorman and > shackra) +1, no reason why it needs a separate policy. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mtjm at mtjm.eu Mon Nov 16 17:59:13 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 18:59:13 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> (fauno@endefensadelsl.org's message of "Mon, 16 Nov 2015 11:13:48 -0300") References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> > ok, what's using the most disk space then? is pcr taking that much? > there're many abandoned packages in pcr, maybe we can delete anything > that wasn't built this year. but how much space would that free? can > you provide these numbers? Packages: 12G arch_gnu+linux_arm 10G arch_gnu+linux_x86 24G arch_gnu+linux_x86_community 13G parabola_gnu+linux 59G total Sources: 0 arch_gnu+linux_arm 5.6G arch_gnu+linux_x86 15G arch_gnu+linux_x86_community 8.3G parabola_gnu+linux 4.8G others 1.3G pac 35G total Whole /src: 100M abs 135M abslibre 32G backup 0 ftp 641M git 1.6G http 625M mailman 97G repo 8.0G sql 140G total pcr following symlinks: 27M pcr/os/armv7h 3.9G pcr/os/i686 1.9G pcr/os/x86_64 I'm not sure what to delete following these numbers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 16 18:36:33 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 15:36:33 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Micha? Mas?owski writes: >> ok, what's using the most disk space then? is pcr taking that much? >> there're many abandoned packages in pcr, maybe we can delete anything >> that wasn't built this year. but how much space would that free? can >> you provide these numbers? > > Packages: thanks! > 12G arch_gnu+linux_arm > 10G arch_gnu+linux_x86 > 24G arch_gnu+linux_x86_community > 13G parabola_gnu+linux > 59G total x86 means i686 + x86_64? > Sources: > > 0 arch_gnu+linux_arm :| > 5.6G arch_gnu+linux_x86 this is a little low, no? > 15G arch_gnu+linux_x86_community > 8.3G parabola_gnu+linux > 4.8G others we should delete old version of sourceballs > 1.3G pac that does this mean? > 35G total > > Whole /src: > > 100M abs > 135M abslibre > 32G backup iirc this is the backup from the old migration, we can delete this since we haven't required data from it in years > 0 ftp > 641M git `git gc` everything? > 1.6G http > 625M mailman D: > 97G repo > 8.0G sql this is a little high, no? > 140G total > > pcr following symlinks: > > 27M pcr/os/armv7h > 3.9G pcr/os/i686 > 1.9G pcr/os/x86_64 > > I'm not sure what to delete following these numbers. > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- P) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 16 18:40:06 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 15:40:06 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] balance In-Reply-To: <87si45g7q2.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> References: <87oaethpba.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87si45g7q2.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <87egfphjp5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Micha? Mas?owski writes: >> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Expenses_.26_Transactions >> >> i'm no expert on accounting so if you think it can be clearer please say >> so. i think i should add the donations to this list too, no? > > It's completely unreadable for me, but maybe it's since I use ledger for > such [0]. > > [0] http://ledger-cli.org/ ok i'll try to use it... in a collective i'm we made a thing called "dineros" that helps on tracking, but it doesn't do much in terms of accounting: for instance http://dineros.endefensadelsl.org/ -- P) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mtjm at mtjm.eu Mon Nov 16 18:55:44 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 19:55:44 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> (fauno@endefensadelsl.org's message of "Mon, 16 Nov 2015 15:36:33 -0300") References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> > x86 means i686 + x86_64? Yes. > this is a little low, no? Scripts should check this, not us. >> 15G arch_gnu+linux_x86_community >> 8.3G parabola_gnu+linux >> 4.8G others > > we should delete old version of sourceballs We could after deleting all ISOs with packages using them. >> 1.3G pac > > that does this mean? Parabola Art Collections, it should be in a git repo somewhere. >> 35G total >> >> Whole /src: It's /srv. >> 0 ftp >> 641M git > > `git gc` everything? Not very efficient, but: for d in $(find . -name '*.git') ; do su $(stat -c$U $d) -s /bin/sh -c "cd $d && git gc" ; done 422M afterwards. We should cron it. Mostly for performance, not for disk usage. >> 97G repo >> 8.0G sql > > this is a little high, no? 3.4G mysql 4.6G postgres PostgreSQL: SELECT pg_database.datname, pg_size_pretty(pg_database_size(pg_database.datname)) AS size FROM pg_database; datname | size ---------------+--------- postgres | 6740 kB template0 | 6441 kB chiliproject | 23 MB labs | 44 MB parabolitsa | 1312 MB piratetracker | 8529 kB roundup | 12 MB template1 | 6601 kB We have several old backups of this data, for various PostgreSQL versions and architectures. MySQL doesn't have such backups; I don't know its root password and I'm not interested in resetting it again. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Nov 16 19:26:43 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 16:26:43 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Micha? Mas?owski writes: >> we should delete old version of sourceballs > > We could after deleting all ISOs with packages using them. that too, keeping several isos around shouldn't be supported (without the rollback machine i guess) >>> 1.3G pac >> >> that does this mean? > > Parabola Art Collections, it should be in a git repo somewhere. ok... >>> 8.0G sql >> >> this is a little high, no? > > 3.4G mysql > 4.6G postgres > > PostgreSQL: > > SELECT pg_database.datname, pg_size_pretty(pg_database_size(pg_database.datname)) AS size FROM pg_database; > datname | size > ---------------+--------- > postgres | 6740 kB > template0 | 6441 kB > chiliproject | 23 MB we don't need this? > labs | 44 MB > parabolitsa | 1312 MB ? > piratetracker | 8529 kB ? > roundup | 12 MB we haven't used roundup in many years > template1 | 6601 kB > > We have several old backups of this data, for various PostgreSQL > versions and architectures. are these backups the extra ~3G? > MySQL doesn't have such backups; I don't know its root password and I'm > not interested in resetting it again. i'm making experiments with backupninja, i'll come back with more info later on. -- http://partidopirata.com.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ingegnue at riseup.net Tue Nov 17 02:40:13 2015 From: ingegnue at riseup.net (IngeGNUe) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:40:13 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <564A938D.9030701@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 FWIW just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I feel that making changes to the AUR, especially a whitelist, would be very annoying. IMO, the AUR is the place where guarantees cannot be made about the quality of a package, where packages are not supported, etc. The user is supposed to install at their own risk, examining the software *before* installing it. If we need to remove a whole repo to save disk space, maybe we could just create a wiki page of recommendations and warnings about AUR packages? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWSpOGAAoJEN9nJ5jSz519XbkP/0Bqge08xQ9gjvFtR945jaGx Wej7LoHxKJhpKRVv4O7iC2W5+aXzqzWMM8TphDSJ2UoehuXDfav2/xze2pCCqBvU 81SdnNSYa31JyyEGBTxrNgyyZV0B++s11TUqoLafp1gn6pWv0CHPnO9Jp6ChaNtL 4igXNGeM4t6gQhJfnC9rpKjGPBBN/BCfiVVKcdRfFRFRX0jqAmDVr9xY1nQvy7/7 3WYHk9j0lF4ijGNTh9jFPnDncJPJ5hIkBEwEUK4g6TQHHli0JjLBeuN1NP1viNT/ LasEfSsAtxoq5SshBukVBYklzvWn8ko+c5egDvbo83BtuEJqmB3G0fsi2Vx7AllW z3J8cbKKRNCbi/qGDquNgNMF1opSEqBybgMye7jcj6SiMMykczCwJBEwpTMepmhV 4qB6ow0/XGFiXO5lfOEbUSv2PAmlzL9tplQbn2RJYrZcmgUbP+xDi7vKGebqbZKD PdSu4P/wJTJt3vsMR+XkuCPHOGi+4qF3kcdXLTwZp9MkS+nRZapdzAJlq+1DeSMm OGYa2ZVJN7I8K8u/4eGfsocrTSffviMMGU8BhME3tD1Z/NmSaWh6QMCy6Hic9bYd yT4iXBgBXZgWq9bZoUFmQ6pfTbxj0AzFiHvD7Pb9tMr0mdRt7N2ICyDjnOjCQF14 uP256fH2n26uSwnre6G0 =/4iN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From elcorreo at deshackra.com Tue Nov 17 03:44:18 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:44:18 -0600 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <87lh9xhp0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87lh9xhp0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <8737w5gui5.fsf@abril.charola> No, you actually can dump the private key for the address that have those 1000 FAIR and pass it to Ceata if that were the case, no need to change the address on the donation page. El lunes 16 de noviembre del 2015 a las 1045 horas, fauno escribi?: > fauno writes: > >> so since there's been some donations in btc to buy the bbb, we were >> discussing with tiberiu which entity should manage the wallet... > > ok so far i have three ideas: > > * btc wallet should be administered by ceata (+2 by emulatorman and > shackra) > > * btc wallet can be handled by two delegates and convert to cash as > needed (+1 by g4jc) > > * ask fsfla to do it (+1 by aurelien) > > so it's not clear where are we at at this point... > > > i should add we have another cryptowallet in faircoin, and i just > noticed someone made a donation of 1000 FAIR to it. this wallet is mine > but i have an address for parabola, so if we need to change that i'll > have to send the FAIR to another account. -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Tue Nov 17 07:03:31 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 08:03:31 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <564A938D.9030701@riseup.net> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <564A938D.9030701@riseup.net> Message-ID: <564AD143.60607@pelzflorian.de> On 11/17/2015 03:40 AM, IngeGNUe wrote: > FWIW just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I feel that making > changes to the AUR, especially a whitelist, would be very annoying. > IMO, the AUR is the place where guarantees cannot be made about the > quality of a package, where packages are not supported, etc. The user > is supposed to install at their own risk, examining the software > *before* installing it. > I think an AUR whitelist would be a useful tool in examining the software. Of course, this is all theoretical and it seems noone is going to create an AUR whitelist in the near future. > If we need to remove a whole repo to save disk space, maybe we could > just create a wiki page of recommendations and warnings about AUR > packages? > We have that already: https://wiki.parabola.nu/List_of_Applications (AUR packages are not marked as AUR; it is necessary to check the links.) From ingegnue at riseup.net Tue Nov 17 13:36:09 2015 From: ingegnue at riseup.net (IngeGNUe) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 08:36:09 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <564AD143.60607@pelzflorian.de> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <564A938D.9030701@riseup.net> <564AD143.60607@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <564B2D49.602@riseup.net> On 11/17/15 02:03, Florian Pelz wrote: > On 11/17/2015 03:40 AM, IngeGNUe wrote: >> FWIW just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I feel that making >> changes to the AUR, especially a whitelist, would be very annoying. >> IMO, the AUR is the place where guarantees cannot be made about the >> quality of a package, where packages are not supported, etc. The user >> is supposed to install at their own risk, examining the software >> *before* installing it. >> > > I think an AUR whitelist would be a useful tool in examining the software. > > Of course, this is all theoretical and it seems noone is going to create > an AUR whitelist in the near future. > Yeah, I see the value in providing such a tool actually -- as long as it is just provided as an optional package. In an ideal world, I would just keep the PCR and add more disk space! If I could send a hard drive I would. >> If we need to remove a whole repo to save disk space, maybe we could >> just create a wiki page of recommendations and warnings about AUR >> packages? >> > > We have that already: > > https://wiki.parabola.nu/List_of_Applications > > (AUR packages are not marked as AUR; it is necessary to check the links.) Cool :) > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Tue Nov 17 14:14:55 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:14:55 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <564B2D49.602@riseup.net> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <564A938D.9030701@riseup.net> <564AD143.60607@pelzflorian.de> <564B2D49.602@riseup.net> Message-ID: <564B365F.9020906@pelzflorian.de> On 11/17/2015 02:36 PM, IngeGNUe wrote: > In an ideal world, I would just keep the PCR and add more disk space! If > I could send a hard drive I would. > The problem is that this is disk space that must be spent on each mirror. But if I haven't misunderstood then not the entire PCR is going to be deleted but only orphaned packages (if anything?) Although I don't quite understand the orphaning process in PCR -- the firejail package is out of date and marked as orphaned but the PKGBUILD (not the package) has recently been updated to the current version? It seems some orphans are not really orphans. From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Tue Nov 17 18:56:49 2015 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:56:49 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <564B365F.9020906@pelzflorian.de> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <564A938D.9030701@riseup.net> <564AD143.60607@pelzflorian.de> <564B2D49.602@riseup.net> <564B365F.9020906@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <1447786609.919.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Pretty much every package appears as orphaned in the website, regardless of how well maintained it is. In fact the only non-orphaned package is etckeeper according to parabolaweb. I ignore the reasons. Le mar. 17 nov. 2015 ? 8:14, Florian Pelz a ?crit : > On 11/17/2015 02:36 PM, IngeGNUe wrote: >> In an ideal world, I would just keep the PCR and add more disk >> space! If >> I could send a hard drive I would. >> > > The problem is that this is disk space that must be spent on each > mirror. But if I haven't misunderstood then not the entire PCR is > going > to be deleted but only orphaned packages (if anything?) > > Although I don't quite understand the orphaning process in PCR -- the > firejail package is out of date and marked as orphaned but the > PKGBUILD > (not the package) has recently been updated to the current version? It > seems some orphans are not really orphans. > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Nov 17 19:00:18 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 16:00:18 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <1447786609.919.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <564A938D.9030701@riseup.net> <564AD143.60607@pelzflorian.de> <564B2D49.602@riseup.net> <564B365F.9020906@pelzflorian.de> <1447786609.919.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <87egfofo3h.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Isaac David writes: > Pretty much every package appears as orphaned in the website, > regardless of how well maintained it is. In fact the only non-orphaned > package is etckeeper according to parabolaweb. > > I ignore the reasons. that someone should maintain parabolaweb ;) ;) -- .o?) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From g4jc at openmailbox.org Wed Nov 18 04:03:52 2015 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 23:03:52 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <564B365F.9020906@pelzflorian.de> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <564A938D.9030701@riseup.net> <564AD143.60607@pelzflorian.de> <564B2D49.602@riseup.net> <564B365F.9020906@pelzflorian.de> Message-ID: <564BF8A8.9050806@openmailbox.org> FYI uploading the new firejail to PCR over 4 times was what made me realize there was a problem with the server. The new PKGBUILD is available for anyone who needs it and has been for some time. https://projects.parabola.nu/abslibre.git/tree/pcr/firejail The issue with uploading packages with a full hdd results in: ==> WARNING: Repo [pcr] (i686) is already locked by repo. This has been going on for over a week and still appears to be a problem. On 11/17/2015 09:14 AM, Florian Pelz wrote: > On 11/17/2015 02:36 PM, IngeGNUe wrote: >> In an ideal world, I would just keep the PCR and add more disk space! If >> I could send a hard drive I would. >> > The problem is that this is disk space that must be spent on each > mirror. But if I haven't misunderstood then not the entire PCR is going > to be deleted but only orphaned packages (if anything?) > > Although I don't quite understand the orphaning process in PCR -- the > firejail package is out of date and marked as orphaned but the PKGBUILD > (not the package) has recently been updated to the current version? It > seems some orphans are not really orphans. > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Wed Nov 18 06:01:22 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 07:01:22 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <564BF8A8.9050806@openmailbox.org> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87mvufht01.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5649E073.9060707@openmailbox.org> <8737w6hw0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87k2phg70u.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87h9klhjv2.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87fv05g4en.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87bnathhjg.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <564A938D.9030701@riseup.net> <564AD143.60607@pelzflorian.de> <564B2D49.602@riseup.net> <564B365F.9020906@pelzflorian.de> <564BF8A8.9050806@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <564C1432.90609@pelzflorian.de> On 11/17/2015 07:56 PM, Isaac David wrote: > Pretty much every package appears as orphaned in the website, > regardless > of how well maintained it is. In fact the only non-orphaned > package is etckeeper according to parabolaweb. > > I ignore the reasons. > OK, now I understand. On 11/18/2015 05:03 AM, Luke wrote: > FYI uploading the new firejail to PCR over 4 times was what made me > realize there was a problem with the server. > The new PKGBUILD is available for anyone who needs it and has been for > some time. > https://projects.parabola.nu/abslibre.git/tree/pcr/firejail > Good to hear. I had already installed from AUR because of that. From nobody at parabola.nu Thu Nov 19 23:43:59 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 23:43:59 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [cl-ppcre] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151119234359.527.92824@parabola.nu> kete at ninthfloor.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * cl-ppcre 2.0.9-2 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/cl-ppcre/ * cl-ppcre 2.0.9-2 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/cl-ppcre/ The user provided the following additional text: New version is 2.0.11-1. From nobody at parabola.nu Fri Nov 20 19:52:32 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 19:52:32 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [qgis] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151120195232.324.89167@parabola.nu> biolyasser at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * qgis 2.8.2-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/qgis/ * qgis 2.8.2-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/qgis/ The user provided the following additional text: Hi, there. I am just discovering Parabola GNU/Linux-libre and found qgis package a little problematic. To my knowledge there are three current versions of qgis: stable (qgis), long term release (qgis-ltr) and development (qgis-dev). The problem is I don't know if this parabola's package is qgis-ltr or qgis outdated, since current qgis-ltr is qgis 2.8.x. Sorry if this is an inconvenience, but I think it can be easily misunderstood. I am sorry too I can't help maintaining this package, maybe when I understand the package build system I will. From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Sat Nov 21 02:26:33 2015 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 21:26:33 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <87poz4hyue.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:25:31 -0500, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > > Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, install and modify? it would > help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. Ask, and you shall receive. https://pur.parabola.nu/ The rebranding and such is incomplete, but I guess it's usable. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From g4jc at openmailbox.org Sat Nov 21 03:26:48 2015 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 22:26:48 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <87poz4hyue.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87poz4hyue.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <564FE478.2000606@openmailbox.org> Awesome! Setting up an account works, but pasting my SSH Public Key into the account threw an error: * The SSH public key is invalid. Messed around with it a bit by removing my e-mail from the public key and so forth but the error persisted. On 11/20/2015 09:26 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:25:31 -0500, > Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >> Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, install and modify? it would >> help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. > Ask, and you shall receive. > > https://pur.parabola.nu/ > > The rebranding and such is incomplete, but I guess it's usable. > > -- > Happy hacking, > ~ Luke Shumaker > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de Sat Nov 21 07:12:20 2015 From: pelzflorian at pelzflorian.de (Florian Pelz) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 08:12:20 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <87poz4hyue.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87poz4hyue.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <56501954.8080703@pelzflorian.de> On 11/21/2015 03:26 AM, Luke Shumaker wrote: > On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:25:31 -0500, > Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >> >> Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, install and modify? it would >> help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. > > Ask, and you shall receive. > > https://pur.parabola.nu/ > > The rebranding and such is incomplete, but I guess it's usable. > OK. Looks nice and thank you, but I still have doubts. What is supposed to be uploaded there? - The same packages as on AUR? Then a whitelist would be just as good and easier to maintain. - So I suppose it's so originally non-free, cleaned packages can be posted? I'd think these could be put on the real AUR just as well so Parabola users need only search in one place. Maybe they would be slightly harder to find because they could not be called e.g. pidgin-git but only pidgin-libre-git. Unless of course real AUR does not want such packages -- in that case PUR would of course have a reason to exist. - A danger I perceive is that PUR will have software that is not available on AUR at all, i.e. not just nonfree/semifree. Then Arch users may want to search PUR. I don't think we should compete with Arch on this. From elcorreo at deshackra.com Sat Nov 21 19:04:02 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 13:04:02 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <87poz4hyue.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87poz4hyue.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <87lh9rqin1.fsf@abril.charola> Amen! El viernes 20 de noviembre del 2015 a las 2026 horas, Luke Shumaker escribi?: > On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:25:31 -0500, > Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >> >> Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, install and modify? it would >> help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. > > Ask, and you shall receive. > > https://pur.parabola.nu/ > > The rebranding and such is incomplete, but I guess it's usable. -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From elcorreo at deshackra.com Sat Nov 21 19:10:25 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 13:10:25 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Server Concerns In-Reply-To: <564FE478.2000606@openmailbox.org> References: <5648E120.40403@openmailbox.org> <877flj6mdg.fsf@abril.charola> <87poz4hyue.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <564FE478.2000606@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <87k2pbqice.fsf@abril.charola> I'm experiencing this as well. El viernes 20 de noviembre del 2015 a las 2126 horas, Luke escribi?: > Awesome! Setting up an account works, but pasting my SSH Public Key into > the account threw an error: > > * The SSH public key is invalid. > > Messed around with it a bit by removing my e-mail from the public key > and so forth but the error persisted. > > On 11/20/2015 09:26 PM, Luke Shumaker wrote: >> On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:25:31 -0500, >> Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: >>> Do Arch Linux have the technology behind AUR available to download, install and modify? it would >>> help us a lot if we want to have a PUR. >> Ask, and you shall receive. >> >> https://pur.parabola.nu/ >> >> The rebranding and such is incomplete, but I guess it's usable. >> >> -- >> Happy hacking, >> ~ Luke Shumaker >> -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From nobody at parabola.nu Sun Nov 22 22:04:46 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 22:04:46 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [firejail] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151122220446.322.51876@parabola.nu> john at doe.gnu wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * firejail 0.9.32-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/firejail/ * firejail 0.9.32-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/firejail/ The user provided the following additional text: https://l3net.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/firejail-0-9-34-rc1-release-announcement/ From g4jc at openmailbox.org Mon Nov 23 02:37:17 2015 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 21:37:17 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [firejail] marked out-of-date In-Reply-To: <20151122220446.322.51876@parabola.nu> References: <20151122220446.322.51876@parabola.nu> Message-ID: <56527BDD.20108@openmailbox.org> Yep, after re-uploading it five times I've given up updating it. Librerelease and/or server is still broken. ==> WARNING: Repo [pcr] (i686) is already locked by repo. PKGBUILD here: https://projects.parabola.nu/abslibre.git/tree/pcr/firejail On 11/22/2015 05:04 PM, Parabola Website Notification wrote: > john at doe.gnu wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: > > > * firejail 0.9.32-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/firejail/ > * firejail 0.9.32-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/firejail/ > > > The user provided the following additional text: > > https://l3net.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/firejail-0-9-34-rc1-release-announcement/ > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Mon Nov 23 04:42:09 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:42:09 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [debootstrap] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151123044209.365.98890@parabola.nu> john at doe.gnu wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * debootstrap 1.0.60-1.parabola1 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/debootstrap/ The user provided the following additional text: https://packages.debian.org/sid/debootstrap From GNUtoo at no-log.org Mon Nov 23 20:53:41 2015 From: GNUtoo at no-log.org (Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 21:53:41 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Kernel modules parameters and blacklists Was: What I belive a Linux-libre bug (intel wifi constant nag) In-Reply-To: <5633009B.402@canaglie.net> References: <5633009B.402@canaglie.net> Message-ID: <20151123215341.62ed3f06@top-laptop> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:31:07 +0200 Mikko Viinam?ki wrote: > Hi there! Looks like there is a problem with intel wifi that causes > constant error messages about missing firmware. This makes the > machine slow and fills disks up when it gets logged. I believe the > kernel in Trisquel 7 is Linux-libre 3.13. I've the feeling that more could be done to support more hardware in Trisquel. In /etc/ you can: -> Blacklist modules such as the intel wifi modules -> Change modules options to make some wifi work reliably At the end of the day such simple modifications make the hardware work. Examples: * Before attempting to make recent radeon cards work, I could make that card work again with the radeon driver: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV350/M10 [Mobility Radeon 9600 PRO Turbo] with options radeon dpm=0 * On some laptops with Intel wifi cards, Network manager gets confused, blacklisting the intel wifi driver makes the external USB card works fine. * I also had to change kernel options to make a b43 card work well with the free firmware. I've still that card but the laptop that used it died. On Trisquel expecting the user to do such work is not a good option, on parabola it's more acceptable but still not great (users are power users knowing how to configure their systems, but they probably don't know that the openfwwf firmware for b43 required this or that kernel option to work well). I really wonder how to address that globally, I just notice that stuff while trying to make Trisquel work on other people's laptop. I've no idea: -> Where to talk about such issue, Maybe Trisquel and Parabola mailing list should not be CCed but instead the problem should be raised on a mailing list common to all 100% free distros? -> I really wonder who's task is it to fix it? The distros? linux-libre? Since theses are kernel parameters, the drivers have defaults at when they are declared. Should linux-libre change the defaults? That would carry yet one more patch around. Should the distros do it instead? like in /etc/modprobe.d ? For instance I could make Trisquel work well on an old laptop by disabling 3D acceleration in nouveau, so here we have an issue: The setting is driver wide, and applies to all nouveau GPU, while it's probably needed for very old GPU chips. How to check that changing some option won't have the opposite effect on other hardware that is driven by the same driver? With the blacklists, if we blacklist modules, we might miss the fact that it works without the firmware on some older hardware, that was the case with the radeon card mentioned above. All that is such a mess, and I really don't see how to deal with it yet. The only idea I had was to have some central website like h-node that would store that info, like for instance: Hardware(card model), driver options, kernel version and distro, firmware version if any. But then I don't know how would linux-libre or the distros deal with that info. Right now, some well known free software friendly hardware is working well, is it worth trying to improve the situation? if we do, would it end up being worse than the current state given the issues mentioned above? I'm sorry that this mail raises more questions than answers, I've been thinking a bit about it, but I cound't find good ways to fix it beside making sure that distros only do modifications that are expected to work for all the hardware supported by the driver. That could work for the b43 issue for instance. Denis. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nobody at parabola.nu Tue Nov 24 05:06:17 2015 From: nobody at parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 05:06:17 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [freefilesync] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20151124050617.527.80727@parabola.nu> staffcreative at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * freefilesync 6.15-0 [pcr] (any): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/any/freefilesync/ The user provided the following additional text: http://www.freefilesync.org/ 01 Nov 2015: FreeFileSync 7.6 has been released! From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Nov 24 12:17:16 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 09:17:16 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <87lh9xhp0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87lh9xhp0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87io4r8ucz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> fauno writes: > fauno writes: > >> so since there's been some donations in btc to buy the bbb, we were >> discussing with tiberiu which entity should manage the wallet... ok, i just transfered the btc and fair wallets to tct. i'm waiting for his confirmation :) -- :{ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tct at ceata.org Tue Nov 24 12:25:57 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 14:25:57 +0200 Subject: [Dev] [donations] which entity should control the btc wallet? In-Reply-To: <87io4r8ucz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87vb9aoucm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87lh9xhp0z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87io4r8ucz.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <56545755.4010007@ceata.org> On 24.11.2015 14:17, fauno wrote: > fauno writes: > >> fauno writes: >> >>> so since there's been some donations in btc to buy the bbb, we were >>> discussing with tiberiu which entity should manage the wallet... > > ok, i just transfered the btc and fair wallets to tct. i'm waiting for > his confirmation :) I confirm. :-) -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Nov 24 13:29:46 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:29:46 -0300 Subject: [Dev] fixed db-update (was: Orphan Pcr package [firejail] marked out-of-date) In-Reply-To: <56527BDD.20108@openmailbox.org> References: <20151122220446.322.51876@parabola.nu> <56527BDD.20108@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <87d1uz8r05.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Luke writes: > Yep, after re-uploading it five times I've given up updating it. > Librerelease and/or server is still broken. > > ==> WARNING: Repo [pcr] (i686) is already locked by repo. ok, i fixed it. db-update was breaking up because the abslibre dir in your staging area contained some packages. no idea how they got there, but please check your local workdir. the issue was that the repos array on db-update (line #17) had duplicated repos, so it would lock pcr first and then try again, locking itself out. apparently this is produced by an eager find (line #12) that also found the packages inside of the abslibre/ dir. so the fix was to make this find less eager and just in case, make the repos array remove duplicates. i've already pushed the fixes and deployed them on repo. i've already released your packages while testing the fix. i've also removed encyclomundi's packages that were preventing him from releasing stuff too. ps: you're pushing packages as "user" instead of "luke", this depends on the LIBREUSER var from libretools but i couldn't find where it's set. -- :{ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From g4jc at openmailbox.org Tue Nov 24 13:54:00 2015 From: g4jc at openmailbox.org (Luke) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 08:54:00 -0500 Subject: [Dev] fixed db-update In-Reply-To: <87d1uz8r05.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <20151122220446.322.51876@parabola.nu> <56527BDD.20108@openmailbox.org> <87d1uz8r05.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <56546BF8.80307@openmailbox.org> Excellent! Thank you. I'll clean my working directory and see if I can't find where to set the LIBREUSER var. On 11/24/2015 08:29 AM, fauno wrote: > Luke writes: > >> Yep, after re-uploading it five times I've given up updating it. >> Librerelease and/or server is still broken. >> >> ==> WARNING: Repo [pcr] (i686) is already locked by repo. > ok, i fixed it. db-update was breaking up because the abslibre dir in > your staging area contained some packages. no idea how they got there, > but please check your local workdir. > > the issue was that the repos array on db-update (line #17) had > duplicated repos, so it would lock pcr first and then try again, locking > itself out. apparently this is produced by an eager find (line #12) > that also found the packages inside of the abslibre/ dir. > > so the fix was to make this find less eager and just in case, make the > repos array remove duplicates. i've already pushed the fixes and > deployed them on repo. > > > i've already released your packages while testing the fix. i've also > removed encyclomundi's packages that were preventing him from releasing > stuff too. > > > ps: you're pushing packages as "user" instead of "luke", this depends on > the LIBREUSER var from libretools but i couldn't find where it's set. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Nov 24 15:50:18 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 12:50:18 -0300 Subject: [Dev] fixed db-update In-Reply-To: <56546BF8.80307@openmailbox.org> References: <20151122220446.322.51876@parabola.nu> <56527BDD.20108@openmailbox.org> <87d1uz8r05.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56546BF8.80307@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <5654873A.8050308@riseup.net> On 11/24/2015 10:54 AM, Luke wrote: > Excellent! Thank you. I'll clean my working directory and see if I can't > find where to set the LIBREUSER var. In my case, i've edited REPODEST var in /etc/libretools.conf REPODEST=repo at parabola.nu:staging/emulatorman -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tct at ceata.org Tue Nov 24 16:54:48 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:54:48 +0200 Subject: [Dev] [donations] balance In-Reply-To: <87egfphjp5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87oaethpba.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87si45g7q2.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87egfphjp5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <56549658.4040401@ceata.org> On 16.11.2015 20:40, fauno wrote: > Micha? Mas?owski writes: > >>> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Donations#Expenses_.26_Transactions >>> >>> i'm no expert on accounting so if you think it can be clearer please say >>> so. i think i should add the donations to this list too, no? >> >> It's completely unreadable for me, but maybe it's since I use ledger for >> such [0]. >> >> [0] http://ledger-cli.org/ > > ok i'll try to use it... > > in a collective i'm we made a thing called "dineros" that helps on > tracking, but it doesn't do much in terms of accounting: > > for instance http://dineros.endefensadelsl.org/ IMO, the accounting part in the Donations page is scary. I suggest keeping it just for providing information on donation methods and for acknowledging donations. We can log the transactions on other page and just link it in the Donation page for anyone interested. Better, you just list what Parabola did with the money (bought developing card, bought server, payed developer, etc) -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Nov 24 17:09:08 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 14:09:08 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] balance In-Reply-To: <56549658.4040401@ceata.org> References: <87oaethpba.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87si45g7q2.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87egfphjp5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56549658.4040401@ceata.org> Message-ID: <87r3jf72a3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic writes: > IMO, the accounting part in the Donations page is scary. haha > I suggest > keeping it just for providing information on donation methods and for > acknowledging donations. > > We can log the transactions on other page and just link it in the > Donation page for anyone interested. ok > Better, you just list what Parabola did with the money (bought > developing card, bought server, payed developer, etc) we discussed being transparent on cash management, to me this involves publishing detailed transactions logs. -- }(:= -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tct at ceata.org Tue Nov 24 17:11:03 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 19:11:03 +0200 Subject: [Dev] [donations] balance In-Reply-To: <87r3jf72a3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87oaethpba.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87si45g7q2.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87egfphjp5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56549658.4040401@ceata.org> <87r3jf72a3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <56549A27.5070707@ceata.org> On 24.11.2015 19:09, fauno wrote: > Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic writes: >> IMO, the accounting part in the Donations page is scary. > > haha > >> I suggest >> keeping it just for providing information on donation methods and for >> acknowledging donations. >> >> We can log the transactions on other page and just link it in the >> Donation page for anyone interested. > > ok > >> Better, you just list what Parabola did with the money (bought >> developing card, bought server, payed developer, etc) > > we discussed being transparent on cash management, to me this involves > publishing detailed transactions logs. My bad. What I meant to write is on the Donations page you can just list what Parabola did with the money. And link to detailed transaction page. -- Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic | Pre?edinte, Funda?ia Ceata GPG: 900CECE2 | Tel: +40-761-810-100 Sus?ii libertatea artelor ?i tehnologiilor? ?nscrie-te ca membru: http://ceata.org/inscrieri From mtjm at mtjm.eu Tue Nov 24 17:14:20 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:14:20 +0100 Subject: [Dev] [donations] balance In-Reply-To: <56549A27.5070707@ceata.org> (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic's message of "Tue, 24 Nov 2015 19:11:03 +0200") References: <87oaethpba.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87si45g7q2.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> <87egfphjp5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56549658.4040401@ceata.org> <87r3jf72a3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <56549A27.5070707@ceata.org> Message-ID: <878u5nfhg3.fsf@ecthelion.vpn.mtjm.eu> >> we discussed being transparent on cash management, to me this involves >> publishing detailed transactions logs. > > My bad. What I meant to write is on the Donations page you can just list > what Parabola did with the money. And link to detailed transaction page. +1: detailed transaction log (e.g. a ledger file in a public git repo) and a summary report (maybe automatically generated) on the wiki page. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ovruni at gnu.org.pe Tue Nov 24 18:29:13 2015 From: ovruni at gnu.org.pe (Omar Vega Ramos) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:29:13 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [qgis] marked out-of-date In-Reply-To: <20151120195232.324.89167@parabola.nu> References: <20151120195232.324.89167@parabola.nu> Message-ID: <5654AC79.6040905@gnu.org.pe> > > The problem is I don't know if this parabola's package is qgis-ltr or qgis outdated, since current qgis-ltr is qgis 2.8.x. > It was qgit outdated. I updated the qgis package to 2.12.0-2.parabola1 version. -- Omar Vega -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0x6D5DBA58.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 6683 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com Wed Nov 25 04:29:51 2015 From: dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com (Dika Setya Prayogi) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 11:29:51 +0700 Subject: [Dev] porting request Message-ID: there is useful package in AUR called downgrade ( Bash script for downgrading one or more local or remote packages to a version in your cache or the A.R.M.) this toll make downgrading easier, anyone want to check and port it ? From elcorreo at deshackra.com Wed Nov 25 04:44:08 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 22:44:08 -0600 Subject: [Dev] porting request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87610q4rjb.fsf@abril.charola> We don't any server set as a "Parabola time machine", which would be a requirement if we want to comply with FSF's guidelines for fully free GNU/Linux distributions while offering `downgrade`. El martes 24 de noviembre del 2015 a las 2229 horas, Dika Setya Prayogi escribi?: > there is useful package in AUR called downgrade ( Bash script for > downgrading one or more local or remote packages to a version in your > cache or the > A.R.M.) > > this toll make downgrading easier, anyone want to check and port it ? > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com Wed Nov 25 10:42:14 2015 From: dikasetyaprayogi at gmail.com (Dika Setya Prayogi) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 17:42:14 +0700 Subject: [Dev] porting request In-Reply-To: <87610q4rjb.fsf@abril.charola> References: <87610q4rjb.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: you mean the A.R.M. ? I use the downgrade right now and it just work without arm, it scanning all your local and remote package then listing all available package and all you need is type an option number and you done, those arm mentioned because downgrade have a capability to scan arm mirror, maybe erasing the arm description will make it libre enough. peace! 2015-11-25 11.44 GMT+07.00, Jorge Araya Navarro : > We don't any server set as a "Parabola time machine", which would be a > requirement if we want to > comply with FSF's guidelines for fully free GNU/Linux distributions while > offering `downgrade`. > > El martes 24 de noviembre del 2015 a las 2229 horas, Dika Setya Prayogi > escribi?: > >> there is useful package in AUR called downgrade ( Bash script for >> downgrading one or more local or remote packages to a version in your >> cache or the >> A.R.M.) >> >> this toll make downgrading easier, anyone want to check and port it ? >> _______________________________________________ >> Dev mailing list >> Dev at lists.parabola.nu >> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > > -- > ? Pax et bonum. > Jorge Araya Navarro > https://es.gravatar.com/shackra > From elcorreo at deshackra.com Fri Nov 27 04:40:15 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 22:40:15 -0600 Subject: [Dev] FYI: The FSF beta tests a new Certificate Authority: the Free Software Foundation Message-ID: <87lh9koy1c.fsf@abril.charola> >From https://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/lets-encrypt-the-fsf-beta-tests-a-new-certificate-authority Recently the FSF's application to Let's Encrypt's Limited Beta program was accepted. For those of you who have not been following, the project Let's Encrypt is a non-profit Certificate Authority (CA) run by the Internet Security Research Group (ISRG). The IRSG, founded in 2013, is comprised of board members from various places, including but not limited to: The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), and Mozilla. The main drive behind Let's Encrypt is to make the process of getting X.509 certificates for Transport Layer Security (TLS) encryption a trivial process, as well as cost-free. In addition, Let's Encrypt aims to make all this available using only Free as in Freedom software for both their server and client infrastructure. -- ? Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Fri Nov 27 12:58:44 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (fauno) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:58:44 -0300 Subject: [Dev] FYI: The FSF beta tests a new Certificate Authority: the Free Software Foundation In-Reply-To: <87lh9koy1c.fsf@abril.charola> References: <87lh9koy1c.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <87vb8n4n0b.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Jorge Araya Navarro writes: > From https://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/lets-encrypt-the-fsf-beta-tests-a-new-certificate-authority have we applied for the closed beta? -- :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Fri Nov 27 16:19:03 2015 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 10:19:03 -0600 Subject: [Dev] FYI: The FSF beta tests a new Certificate Authority: the Free Software Foundation In-Reply-To: <87vb8n4n0b.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87lh9koy1c.fsf@abril.charola> <87vb8n4n0b.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <1448641143.1048.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> I think we have. Luke, can you confirm? Le ven. 27 nov. 2015 ? 6:58, fauno a ?crit : > Jorge Araya Navarro writes: > >> From >> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/lets-encrypt-the-fsf-beta-tests-a-new-certificate-authority > > have we applied for the closed beta? > > > -- > :D > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 30 22:07:16 2015 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:07:16 -0500 Subject: [Dev] Forward: Let's Encrypt Closed Beta Invite References: <20151123221409.18913.51658.betaprogram@letsencrypt.org> Message-ID: <87k2ozi1kb.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Let's Encrypt Beta" Subject: Let's Encrypt Closed Beta Invite Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 22:14:09 +0000 Size: 23461 URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 30 22:11:29 2015 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:11:29 -0500 Subject: [Dev] FYI: The FSF beta tests a new Certificate Authority: the Free Software Foundation In-Reply-To: <87vb8n4n0b.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87lh9koy1c.fsf@abril.charola> <87vb8n4n0b.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87io4ji1da.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:58:44 -0500, fauno wrote: > > [1 ] > [1.1 ] > Jorge Araya Navarro writes: > > > From https://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/lets-encrypt-the-fsf-beta-tests-a-new-certificate-authority > > have we applied for the closed beta? Yup, but it went to my spam folder :/ (so I didn't notice for a week) I've forwarded the acceptance info to the list. -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker