From niitotantei at riseup.net Mon Mar 2 17:03:49 2015 From: niitotantei at riseup.net (Daniel Milewski) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 18:03:49 +0100 Subject: [Dev] [pcr] pull request Message-ID: <1425315829.6164.7.camel@riseup.net> I took PKGBUILDs for gtg and its dependency python2-liblarch from AUR and made small adjustments. Since I don't have repo access I ask maintainers to include and package them. The following changes since commit faa5e113d838635ec167dc3f53ff4ec19d791a9b: fair-coin: upgrade (2015-03-02 10:43:25 -0300) are available in the git repository at: https://gitorious.org/niitotantei/abslibre.git for-pcr for you to fetch changes up to 443913db726fa57bdb6572700822e69a4997dd05: gtg: add new package to [pcr] (2015-03-02 17:04:58 +0100) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Milewski (1): gtg: add new package to [pcr] pcr/gtg/PKGBUILD | 23 +++++++++++++++++++++++ pcr/gtg/gtg.install | 11 +++++++++++ pcr/python2-liblarch/PKGBUILD | 33 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 3 files changed, 67 insertions(+) create mode 100644 pcr/gtg/PKGBUILD create mode 100644 pcr/gtg/gtg.install create mode 100644 pcr/python2-liblarch/PKGBUILD -- Daniel Milewski GPG key ID: 8D43A4A1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Mon Mar 2 20:08:44 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?windows-1252?Q?Andr=E9_Silva?=) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 18:08:44 -0200 Subject: [Dev] [pcr] pull request In-Reply-To: <1425315829.6164.7.camel@riseup.net> References: <1425315829.6164.7.camel@riseup.net> Message-ID: <54F4C34C.1060906@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 03/02/2015 03:03 PM, Daniel Milewski wrote: > I took PKGBUILDs for gtg and its dependency python2-liblarch from > AUR and made small adjustments. Since I don't have repo access I > ask maintainers to include and package them. > > The following changes since commit > faa5e113d838635ec167dc3f53ff4ec19d791a9b: > > fair-coin: upgrade (2015-03-02 10:43:25 -0300) > > are available in the git repository at: > > https://gitorious.org/niitotantei/abslibre.git for-pcr > > for you to fetch changes up to > 443913db726fa57bdb6572700822e69a4997dd05: > > gtg: add new package to [pcr] (2015-03-02 17:04:58 +0100) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Daniel Milewski (1): gtg: add new package to [pcr] > > pcr/gtg/PKGBUILD | 23 +++++++++++++++++++++++ > pcr/gtg/gtg.install | 11 +++++++++++ > pcr/python2-liblarch/PKGBUILD | 33 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 3 files changed, 67 > insertions(+) create mode 100644 pcr/gtg/PKGBUILD create mode > 100644 pcr/gtg/gtg.install create mode 100644 > pcr/python2-liblarch/PKGBUILD > pushed! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU9MNMAAoJEOaXR1L5cERWl2wP/0mjQ/xUKkVG76Y0vHVliMzd RKA6Luvh4DFwlQt0vkaZvtzFsNteAl4GRUCJoVPXx0PGwJPgEYwnBVBb5Pmgfaau vqovZVyyc/9cfnJ2dnUifgaKY3vK1AK0ybNSXDDwyC/PAlWpkrXAKMX5C6JheWEe bSYoTGR6z3IaUh2QDbGQCARpWvSzt7bkdCv9Hf5G6Ygj9eB1l0MYDW15Be4WT6kC 5dQ4B6ZmJ3TysSBtvR9bzvw516uqKvIclv5OHCENkzsszGNfdIDsv8YOlt2JlGK3 Gh6AwVtTABVnMz+Jr5C2Wxhb4T3uox6POrMUiE9tw5APj87DLidsvrOLd+sE/QRa qF+ityQtYgiYvq313fhWkO5JNiNiUEVTMvymldYvHKZz271/bsGQHVTrLsxfeFfH Y2G7F2CAZDjW3uRDFteFahOtEzsNtklmUdcyn1BICbhePX0b8uPU8ZTWfySCJrMe 7SI1R5rjH2fNxFJ2zTc8BwirZPPIqDag6LnVlm5Ctpk3ur1Yj08XEoR41BLlbbZI el3bSQW7N7w/PaPVpZeo+HKVIoUXA3lCgErddOvT1DURgS+PaWQTQr8usCtn5fYQ gFhmWimjKg/CULA+kOMhRcU7OgRbbiAqwVKBdelvXZYI9dYqU8WQ+P9+gC8joV29 D1sX8UHIgHc6HknZe5O+ =3bOc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From elcorreo at deshackra.com Tue Mar 3 18:40:38 2015 From: elcorreo at deshackra.com (Jorge Araya Navarro) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:40:38 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 Message-ID: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> FYI: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-rival-gitorious-will-shut-june-1/ -- Pax et bonum. Jorge Araya Navarro. ES: Dise?ador Publicitario, Programador Python y colaborador en Parabola GNU/Linux-libre EN: Ads Designer, Python programmer and contributor Parabola GNU/Linux-libre EO: Anonco grafikisto, Pitino programalingvo programisto kai kontribuanto en Parabola GNU/Linux-libre https://es.gravatar.com/shackra From hellekin at gnu.org Wed Mar 4 00:38:14 2015 From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 21:38:14 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 In-Reply-To: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> References: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <54F653F6.9000805@gnu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 03/03/15 15:40, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > FYI: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-rival-gitorious-will-shut-june-1/ > *** See also https://about.gitlab.com/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-gitorious/ Rolf Bjaanes, Gitorious CEO, gives some background on the reasons for the acquisition: ?At Gitorious we saw more and more organizations adopting GitLab. Due to decreased income from on-premises customers, running the free Gitorious.org was no longer sustainable. GitLab was solving the same problem that we were, but was solving it better.? I have talked with Gitlab CEO: 17:26 < hellekin> hello, can someone explain the rationale behind shutting down gitorious? Is there a specific channel where that can be discussed? 17:28 < dblessing> hellekin: yeah, no one for GitLab B.V. proper is here. gitorious will be available until june 1 and users will be given a method to migrate to gitlab.com easily 17:29 < hellekin> dblessing: thanks. I can't wrap my mind around this as being "a good thing" for software freedom. Not that I will miss Gitorious though. 17:31 < haynes> https://about.gitlab.com/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-gitorious/ contains a little bit more info on the background 17:34 < hellekin> haynes: thanks, it makes sense. 17:34 < sytse_> gitlab ceo here, happy to answer questions about the gitorious acquisition 17:34 < hellekin> hi sytse_, thank you for showing up! 17:35 < sytse_> no problem, Drew indicated you had a question 17:36 < hellekin> sytse_: I want to start by telling you how much I like gitlab. I'm working with Devuan.org, the Debian fork, and we're using it as our devolpment platform. 17:36 < sytse_> great to hear that! 17:37 < hellekin> sytse_: haynes just pointed me to https://about.gitlab.com/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-gitorious/ where the CEO of Gitorious, Rolf Bjaanes, explains that Gitlab solves the public repo hosting better than Gitorious. 17:37 < sytse_> we noticed you used GitLab, hopefully in inspiration to Debian 17:37 < sytse_> yep 17:38 < hellekin> sytse_: wait a sec... That needs formulation... 17:39 < hellekin> sytse_: when I first read about Gitorious shutting down, I thought that it was some blow on the diversity of alternatives to Github. Something quite negative at first sight. 17:41 < hellekin> sytse_: then I read this comment by Rolf Bjaanes and thought that it makes sense, as you're simply allowing them to "exit" before the business becomes too bad and the big customers want to shift away to Github. Can you tell use more about how you came to figure out this strategy? I mean, beyond the nice gesture, how important is it for you to grab that market share so to speak. 17:43 < sytse_> thanks for asking, Rolf from Gitorious contacted us because their business was no longer sustainable and they wanted to exit without a bankruptcy or so 17:44 < sytse_> we saw a potential to get more awareness and users for gitlab and they thought GitLab was a good fit for their existing customers (more features and based on open source) 17:44 < jalcine> isn't gitorious open source too? 17:44 < sytse_> yes 17:44 < sytse_> AGPL3 17:45 < sytse_> so gitorious would have shut down anyway, we tried to make the best of it together 17:45 < hellekin> yes, that's a pity gitlab isn't AGPLv3+ as well 17:45 < sytse_> the headline on TNW was the choice of the publication 17:45 < sytse_> we like the MIT license but opinions vary 17:46 < hellekin> sytse_: I'm a GNU maintainer :) 17:47 < sytse_> so I won't start a debate :) it is already quite a show on https://about.gitlab.com/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-gitorious/ 17:49 < hellekin> sytse_: BTW, that's something of a disension between the FSF and Github, the way they "look" at copyleft. That means a window of opportunity for you to differentiate from the competition and reassure AGPL fans. 17:49 < hellekin> dissension 17:51 < sytse_> there maybe is a market for that but we're comfortable with the MIT, we think our actions our more important than the license, do we ship a great GitLab CE month after month? 17:53 < sytse_> yeah, the wiki could use some love, see http://feedback.gitlab.com/forums/176466-general/suggestions/4320328-enable-all-the-goodies-in-the-gollum-wiki-engine 17:55 < hellekin> sytse_: see how I used it yesterday: https://git.devuan.org/Envite/devuan-weekly-news/wikis/past-issues/volume-02/issue-014 17:57 < hellekin> sytse_: indeed I tested block diagrams and transclusion yesterday. [[incude:other-page]] would definitely remove the need for Mediawiki AFAIC 17:57 < sytse_> looks nice! 17:57 < hellekin> sytse_: the great advantage of using markdown is that we send the newsletter straight to email without modification. 17:58 < sytse_> markdown is awesome, I hope lawyers will also start using it soon 18:00 < hellekin> sytse_: well anyway, thank you for showing up, and for enabling a great alternative to Github. If you switch to GPL I can convince RMS to use it for Savannah ;o) 18:02 < hellekin> sytse_: I'd be interested in pursuing this conversation some time. My GPG key is public. 18:03 < sytse_> feel free to email me at sytse at gitlab.com, i don't use GPG yet 18:03 < sytse_> and thanks for the conversation 18:04 < hellekin> I will. TTYL sytse_ 18:06 < sytse_> ttyl hellekin Rob Myers thinks they will be wiped out by Github because they lack business skills. I'm not so sure. In any case, besides the poor license choice, I much prefer the Gitlab code than the Gitorious code, so I won't complain. == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJU9lPtXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQ0IyNkIyRTNDNzEyMTc2OUEzNEM4ODU0 ODA2QzM2M0ZDMTg5ODNEAAoJEEgGw2P8GJg9CFsP/0laoPMb8TM+wKgoRQYRx0aL FkWEleudu8v+EZyzwzXBFf/pJMfW6b6Ty7VZKejgbHaw5t1Ckp3+0H3eHLy5O3+9 iiVSA9UrDkxzV4SDEnLRqor9oz0bp/v3t8juX1+/q0KMxT15knRg5gvnqOfJxjNi HXZ0Q4el06YPrtznRqKIHvLQidUytfqoVlM9M+H9b2peW69WEvR/p9S0nY2Z9vRl LeC8KlRNMt9g9KDpXH9ZDD+sfAVUw6QTSEpJfMkSZ+3V2SaDB4rNZT/bAv3iM+D7 qPXG53zlSSsU/rtRZZ6y56CMltS4cuVcriqcO6zQriuqpIM2T52mIN24f+cmGsOJ q2WELlFKfbeqzdn2dy5fMDx4BEjAmeW69EXViveWjEWs2v4abYcMJmZvz1NXXUve RO0L/BsNgTo2hQ+ePvi15sWA5y/+zSuHCp5ojmWhK9TunFZnAaevEBQQYZcE9xkm yhCKOV56CbfNnpBVqoz0TKvU/BZfWNQ0RGtnY2O1nzI0Tim8oKgfLBy7RrxIhzET RukcEYuQFDXZBnrij90OQVRzfUU6FjwCoPuZL9Ky0XX5FeGXFduFJs8+Q6qgg+KF bMktszAeS1PYuSCPQd4E6uf2DDsgSWxlDYL6PPZyuXwZQ1nwOa/81RjHXQ1jlB4e Q1CVrBT9V/M2SPT8zp0t =Jwrw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fabio at pesari.eu Wed Mar 4 09:33:07 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 10:33:07 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 In-Reply-To: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> References: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <54F6D153.90706@pesari.eu> I knew something along these lines would eventually happen. Gitorious did have some traction (I think Qt was hosted there) but to be honest, I always found its interface incredibly clunky and ugly - I'd rather use SourceForge than Gitorious. But I really liked the fact that it was AGPLed. I actually dislike GitLab.com more than I dislike GitHub, Inc.: they have adopted this backwards "open core" model where they release a proprietary version of their program (called GitHub EE) along with the MIT version. Using GitLab.com is as bad as using GitHub.com since you cannot read the actual source code of either. I'd still rather use it instead of GitHub, though. I don't think GitLab is ever going to take over GitHub and if you want to contribute to Free Software you are going to need a GitHub account in any case these days, plus GitHub can be fully operated through Free Software by using git and their "hub" program - the only "proprietary" thing about this is the JSON API calls made by "hub", but as the FSF says that's a service rather than software, so it's another matter altogether. Nonetheless, I would love an alternative to GitHub, in fact I think GitHub is one of the biggest problems in Free Software culture, as it depicts collaboration as social networking and promotes proprietary software (GH itself is proprietary and you can host proprietary software on GitHub [1]) and open source "culture". But let's take a look at the alternatives (those which support git, as I myself do not want to go back to CVS and SVN and everyone who supports Mercurial also supports git): BerliOS: Good alternative, although it used to run ads and it closed down a few times. It would also need a redesign, how does one browse a repo? And the approval process does not scale well. GitLab: Best solution out there but it still promotes an open source/proprietary culture, like GitHub does. Savannah: Would need a total redesign, plus I think that their approval process does not scale well (but they're the best out there when it comes to freedom). SourceForge: Changes owners too often, clunky, has ads. Now, I'm afraid something like Savannah might never be accepted by the mainstream, so GitLab remains the best choice if we want to replace GitHub. In my opinion, a replacement for GitHub should be: * Completely Free Software * Modernly designed * Run by a nonprofit organization * Ad-free * Marketed, and heavily * Supported by some big Free Software project (such as Debian) * Strict on banning nonfree projects * Able to import from GitHub by clicking a button (this would make migrating trivial) * Without any paid accounts To achieve this purpose, GitLab CE is already perfect from a practical perspective, its only faults are ideological. Someone should just fork it as AGPLv3+, host it on their own servers with their own Terms of Service and well, get working on finding funds and marketing it, because that's the hardest part by far. But I doubt that would kill GitHub anyway. For many people, GitHub is synonymous with git is synonymous with collaborative development. People don't ask you "where's the source tarball" or "where's the repo", they ask you "where's the GitHub?". And if someone releases a program, people will ask him/her "can you release it on GitHub" or "GitHub link?" or something along these lines. GitHub has successfully brainwashed the masses so that they believe that "pull requests" and "forks" would not exist without them. Go on a tech site like reddit and see these pathetic displays of ignorance yourselves. I'm not saying this because I'm a snob, I'm just tired that a whole culture that has been around for decades has been attributed to a single, private corporation which doesn't even give a damn about it and has engaged in censorship several times. I'm personally tired of having to use GitHub to contribute to projects I like, but programmers nowadays either host their projects there or watch them die so I understand them. That's the power of marketing and I don't believe a philosophically better alternative would fix what is fundamentally a problem of consumer society as a whole. [1]: https://help.github.com/articles/open-source-licensing/#what-happens-if-i-dont-choose-a-license From digit.siljrath at googlemail.com Wed Mar 4 14:07:04 2015 From: digit.siljrath at googlemail.com (Digit) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 15:07:04 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 In-Reply-To: <54F6D153.90706@pesari.eu> References: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> <54F6D153.90706@pesari.eu> Message-ID: https://notabug.org/ fulfills many of those criteria listed by Fabio, and seems the best option around (so far, given an absence of other freedom respecting git webware). started by some fsf members mere days before the news of gitorious' impending doom, they didnt expect the need for it to suddenly become so pressing. a fortuitous psychic piece of project starting. :) the more free software supporters who get in at the ground floor, the better chance we have of helping keep it steered in the right direction. i have confidence in the intent of notabug.org's creators, and its philosophy. now lets just see if we can help make it all we hope it to be, practically (~practicably(?)). -Digit ps, i too tire of the convenience trap and mindshare brainwash of github. this gitlab conjured gitorious-death jostling might just be the impetus we (the whole Free Software community) need to get ourselves sorted with better. On 04/03/2015, Fabio Pesari wrote: > I knew something along these lines would eventually happen. Gitorious > did have some traction (I think Qt was hosted there) but to be honest, I > always found its interface incredibly clunky and ugly - I'd rather use > SourceForge than Gitorious. > > But I really liked the fact that it was AGPLed. I actually dislike > GitLab.com more than I dislike GitHub, Inc.: they have adopted this > backwards "open core" model where they release a proprietary version of > their program (called GitHub EE) along with the MIT version. Using > GitLab.com is as bad as using GitHub.com since you cannot read the > actual source code of either. I'd still rather use it instead of GitHub, > though. > > I don't think GitLab is ever going to take over GitHub and if you want > to contribute to Free Software you are going to need a GitHub account in > any case these days, plus GitHub can be fully operated through Free > Software by using git and their "hub" program - the only "proprietary" > thing about this is the JSON API calls made by "hub", but as the FSF > says that's a service rather than software, so it's another matter > altogether. > > Nonetheless, I would love an alternative to GitHub, in fact I think > GitHub is one of the biggest problems in Free Software culture, as it > depicts collaboration as social networking and promotes proprietary > software (GH itself is proprietary and you can host proprietary software > on GitHub [1]) and open source "culture". > > But let's take a look at the alternatives (those which support git, as I > myself do not want to go back to CVS and SVN and everyone who supports > Mercurial also supports git): > > BerliOS: Good alternative, although it used to run ads and it closed > down a few times. It would also need a redesign, how does one browse a > repo? And the approval process does not scale well. > > GitLab: Best solution out there but it still promotes an open > source/proprietary culture, like GitHub does. > > Savannah: Would need a total redesign, plus I think that their approval > process does not scale well (but they're the best out there when it > comes to freedom). > > SourceForge: Changes owners too often, clunky, has ads. > > Now, I'm afraid something like Savannah might never be accepted by the > mainstream, so GitLab remains the best choice if we want to replace GitHub. > > In my opinion, a replacement for GitHub should be: > > * Completely Free Software > * Modernly designed > * Run by a nonprofit organization > * Ad-free > * Marketed, and heavily > * Supported by some big Free Software project (such as Debian) > * Strict on banning nonfree projects > * Able to import from GitHub by clicking a button (this would make > migrating trivial) > * Without any paid accounts > > To achieve this purpose, GitLab CE is already perfect from a practical > perspective, its only faults are ideological. Someone should just fork > it as AGPLv3+, host it on their own servers with their own Terms of > Service and well, get working on finding funds and marketing it, because > that's the hardest part by far. > > But I doubt that would kill GitHub anyway. For many people, GitHub is > synonymous with git is synonymous with collaborative development. People > don't ask you "where's the source tarball" or "where's the repo", they > ask you "where's the GitHub?". And if someone releases a program, people > will ask him/her "can you release it on GitHub" or "GitHub link?" or > something along these lines. GitHub has successfully brainwashed the > masses so that they believe that "pull requests" and "forks" would not > exist without them. Go on a tech site like reddit and see these > pathetic displays of ignorance yourselves. I'm not saying this because > I'm a snob, I'm just tired that a whole culture that has been around for > decades has been attributed to a single, private corporation which > doesn't even give a damn about it and has engaged in censorship several > times. > > I'm personally tired of having to use GitHub to contribute to projects I > like, but programmers nowadays either host their projects there or watch > them die so I understand them. That's the power of marketing and I don't > believe a philosophically better alternative would fix what is > fundamentally a problem of consumer society as a whole. > > [1]: > https://help.github.com/articles/open-source-licensing/#what-happens-if-i-dont-choose-a-license > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > From hellekin at gnu.org Wed Mar 4 15:37:27 2015 From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 12:37:27 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 In-Reply-To: References: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> <54F6D153.90706@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <54F726B7.9070409@gnu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 03/04/15 11:07, Digit wrote: > https://notabug.org/ fulfills many of those criteria listed by Fabio, > and seems the best option around (so far, given an absence of other > freedom respecting git webware). > *** It's "MIT" as well, and written in Go, a language created by Google. I don't have anything against Go, I like and use Pond for example, but I can't hack it, and I can hack Ruby. "The goal of this project is to make the easiest, fastest, and most painless way to set up a self-hosted Git service. With Go, this can be done via an independent binary distribution across ALL platforms that Go supports, including Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows." So they chose Go to support proprietary software. I don't see that as a better option for software freedom that the Gitlab "open core" model. If Gitlab stands with the FSF, they have more chances than say, GNU Savannah, to be a proper replacement platform than Github. "What's wrong with MIT License?" is the question to tackle. When your whole stack is "MIT", it's a logical thing to do to keep building on the same license: that's what Gitlab does. Gogs.io licensed their software as "MIT" as well, although Go itself is licensed under the terms of "a BSD-style license". In both cases, the vocabulary does not support the FSF view. The Github-Reddit-Twitter-Google-Facebook-Apple-Amazon storm cloud is going to rain on us any day if there's no alternative. Why is it that free software developers do not support the FSF? == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJU9yauXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQ0IyNkIyRTNDNzEyMTc2OUEzNEM4ODU0 ODA2QzM2M0ZDMTg5ODNEAAoJEEgGw2P8GJg9uMQP+wbPCfEctPe6hOrIcyNtToID 8WylTjXRW/2tR8MK3vx9dWqc11Sw8OMex+zb2NMMqRTdeMN0yOYBh+nTeNsOnv6/ pA/t4sK+RNHQ813909yGreE9WCMlfF0OZkwwacJLalJ8LrKRPONJIPaWRV3myzRN IorZ821qubrwycVFe2Xnc7VtC5KCVQaTOakuyNsEac6iwow7oJXhPbZkP/mPF7yH vonuVk+7VzVn+zI5fPV9GkoMrq7QUHpJwxlmzGNPxdG0YELXBBhMOxDz2oiLYbKt 7E33NHnsZmv96kswrHq32eMqmL+DD4vsaikpOOvOaPyYE5rWeTaNQksNJ10vKnt2 LEpuEUnR7GOYoeVZheoDCRvuyVwhm6F+Wj1eMtkkG2WPqA4PINjwgvyJqTn9uMnl VyxTpJgkZlEiZOZzen70TP4rN5guUdxq5dKy92HZPzRPm5p9sXLYlWdgnfZioZdy kn+b/6iu6YW5ySJzG2Fq+135GeUWhLOcHa2zY/rgBgbyCId8ukJ1S/jKkbsg+gdG pQFKO76uK6pcgH3cr+MR+vYJhVhO/1PVJgyWtvmu0LbYxmtaLe1xO/9xC+v9pyP4 +QRivqZKa6rToiD/wTVNwvzF9xrEtj/4wFdBCUgn4g1unu4QKP+0O+hIMFXf3ym7 16kdvBBHw9HkON+WaZt0 =qJUb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mtjm at mtjm.eu Wed Mar 4 17:46:39 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 18:46:39 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 In-Reply-To: <54F726B7.9070409@gnu.org> (hellekin@gnu.org's message of "Wed, 04 Mar 2015 12:37:27 -0300") References: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> <54F6D153.90706@pesari.eu> <54F726B7.9070409@gnu.org> Message-ID: <87oao8k64g.fsf@mtjm.eu> > *** It's "MIT" as well, and written in Go, a language created by Google. > I don't have anything against Go, I like and use Pond for example, but > I can't hack it, and I can hack Ruby. It's why I avoid hosting or using for myself such services: I don't know enough Go nor Ruby to hack them. Maybe I could use Kallithea. (Doing N things with a server requires using N+1 programming languages.) > "The goal of this project is to make the easiest, fastest, and most > painless way to set up a self-hosted Git service. With Go, this can be > done via an independent binary distribution across ALL platforms that Go > supports, including Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows." > > So they chose Go to support proprietary software. I don't see that as a > better option for software freedom that the Gitlab "open core" model. If > Gitlab stands with the FSF, they have more chances than say, GNU > Savannah, to be a proper replacement platform than Github. I hope this doesn't mean that supporting free software requires writing unportable bash scripts, doing tricky things with fork or mmap, or having the software require itself to build. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fabio at pesari.eu Wed Mar 4 18:50:05 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 19:50:05 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 In-Reply-To: References: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> <54F6D153.90706@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <54F753DD.9080906@pesari.eu> Did not know about NotABug; thanks for showing it to me! I haven't had the time to look into it in depth but it seems to be alright. Some things need to be tuned up (for example, I think the JS code should be made LibreJS-compliant and their fork of Gogs should be AGPLed) and it's obviously a work-in-progress but it feels great and certainly has the potential to dethrone GitHub. It doesn't seem to be enterprisey like GitLab and that's a good thing, in my book. I don't know too much about peers.community, they seem to be some kind of programming collective which has released some interesting applications. I'm honestly interested in learning more about them and if they can manage a site at least as popular as Gitorious was. I've just heard about this site randomly so I hope they will get their marketing going, and soon. We Free Software developers like to believe that marketing is corporate bullshit (I know I did until recently) but it really is the most important factor if you aim for wide adoption. It makes no sense for a site like NotABug to be niche, it should be as popular as possible, otherwise GitHub will never be replaced and we'll all be stuck using it to contribute to Free Software projects. They should also look for the FSF's approval and endorsement. I know Savannah fits their requirements so well but Savane is pretty much a dead project (too bad, it had a decent codebase) and it would be extremely hard to convince people who use GitHub to switch to it, this one seems a better candidate. I'm willing to help them if I can, I'll look into it. We all could help them, if we agreed about it: perhaps Parabola could become one of its first adopters, that would boost their popularity quite a bit. But, first, we have to be sure about where they stand philosophically and also about their resources (in other words, if they can take it). On 03/04/2015 03:07 PM, Digit wrote: > https://notabug.org/ fulfills many of those criteria listed by Fabio, > and seems the best option around (so far, given an absence of other > freedom respecting git webware). > > started by some fsf members mere days before the news of gitorious' > impending doom, they didnt expect the need for it to suddenly become > so pressing. a fortuitous psychic piece of project starting. :) > > the more free software supporters who get in at the ground floor, the > better chance we have of helping keep it steered in the right > direction. > > i have confidence in the intent of notabug.org's creators, and its > philosophy. now lets just see if we can help make it all we hope it > to be, practically (~practicably(?)). > > -Digit > > ps, i too tire of the convenience trap and mindshare brainwash of > github. this gitlab conjured gitorious-death jostling might just be > the impetus we (the whole Free Software community) need to get > ourselves sorted with better. > > On 04/03/2015, Fabio Pesari wrote: >> I knew something along these lines would eventually happen. Gitorious >> did have some traction (I think Qt was hosted there) but to be honest, I >> always found its interface incredibly clunky and ugly - I'd rather use >> SourceForge than Gitorious. >> >> But I really liked the fact that it was AGPLed. I actually dislike >> GitLab.com more than I dislike GitHub, Inc.: they have adopted this >> backwards "open core" model where they release a proprietary version of >> their program (called GitHub EE) along with the MIT version. Using >> GitLab.com is as bad as using GitHub.com since you cannot read the >> actual source code of either. I'd still rather use it instead of GitHub, >> though. >> >> I don't think GitLab is ever going to take over GitHub and if you want >> to contribute to Free Software you are going to need a GitHub account in >> any case these days, plus GitHub can be fully operated through Free >> Software by using git and their "hub" program - the only "proprietary" >> thing about this is the JSON API calls made by "hub", but as the FSF >> says that's a service rather than software, so it's another matter >> altogether. >> >> Nonetheless, I would love an alternative to GitHub, in fact I think >> GitHub is one of the biggest problems in Free Software culture, as it >> depicts collaboration as social networking and promotes proprietary >> software (GH itself is proprietary and you can host proprietary software >> on GitHub [1]) and open source "culture". >> >> But let's take a look at the alternatives (those which support git, as I >> myself do not want to go back to CVS and SVN and everyone who supports >> Mercurial also supports git): >> >> BerliOS: Good alternative, although it used to run ads and it closed >> down a few times. It would also need a redesign, how does one browse a >> repo? And the approval process does not scale well. >> >> GitLab: Best solution out there but it still promotes an open >> source/proprietary culture, like GitHub does. >> >> Savannah: Would need a total redesign, plus I think that their approval >> process does not scale well (but they're the best out there when it >> comes to freedom). >> >> SourceForge: Changes owners too often, clunky, has ads. >> >> Now, I'm afraid something like Savannah might never be accepted by the >> mainstream, so GitLab remains the best choice if we want to replace GitHub. >> >> In my opinion, a replacement for GitHub should be: >> >> * Completely Free Software >> * Modernly designed >> * Run by a nonprofit organization >> * Ad-free >> * Marketed, and heavily >> * Supported by some big Free Software project (such as Debian) >> * Strict on banning nonfree projects >> * Able to import from GitHub by clicking a button (this would make >> migrating trivial) >> * Without any paid accounts >> >> To achieve this purpose, GitLab CE is already perfect from a practical >> perspective, its only faults are ideological. Someone should just fork >> it as AGPLv3+, host it on their own servers with their own Terms of >> Service and well, get working on finding funds and marketing it, because >> that's the hardest part by far. >> >> But I doubt that would kill GitHub anyway. For many people, GitHub is >> synonymous with git is synonymous with collaborative development. People >> don't ask you "where's the source tarball" or "where's the repo", they >> ask you "where's the GitHub?". And if someone releases a program, people >> will ask him/her "can you release it on GitHub" or "GitHub link?" or >> something along these lines. GitHub has successfully brainwashed the >> masses so that they believe that "pull requests" and "forks" would not >> exist without them. Go on a tech site like reddit and see these >> pathetic displays of ignorance yourselves. I'm not saying this because >> I'm a snob, I'm just tired that a whole culture that has been around for >> decades has been attributed to a single, private corporation which >> doesn't even give a damn about it and has engaged in censorship several >> times. >> >> I'm personally tired of having to use GitHub to contribute to projects I >> like, but programmers nowadays either host their projects there or watch >> them die so I understand them. That's the power of marketing and I don't >> believe a philosophically better alternative would fix what is >> fundamentally a problem of consumer society as a whole. >> >> [1]: >> https://help.github.com/articles/open-source-licensing/#what-happens-if-i-dont-choose-a-license >> _______________________________________________ >> Dev mailing list >> Dev at lists.parabola.nu >> https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev >> From fabio at pesari.eu Wed Mar 4 20:07:46 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 21:07:46 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 In-Reply-To: <54F726B7.9070409@gnu.org> References: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> <54F6D153.90706@pesari.eu> <54F726B7.9070409@gnu.org> Message-ID: <54F76612.5020402@pesari.eu> I would prefer Ruby too but the fact that Gogs is written in Go is not a problem, in my opinion. Go was developed by Google, true, but it's Free Software and there is even a GCC frontend for it. Aside from maybe patents, Google can do nothing to halt the distribution of Go's source code. And in this particular case, the language is so simple I think a Ruby programmer would not have any problems using it, especially if you know a bit of C. The broad implication of your concern is important though - software like this should be written in a popular language. Go is a bit of a hip language right now but I doubt it will become as popular as Python or Ruby are - people will soon realize that there are many proper use cases for Go but they are almost all related to concurrency, as Go's highly-touted performance is not that impressive compared to Scala or Haskell, which are also higher-level (but incredibly more complex). Fortunately, as I said, Go is an extremely simple language and suited for back-end work, so I think that in this case it makes an acceptable choice, at least compared to other less popular languages (such as OCaml). I agree with you that permissive licenses should not be supported by Free Software activists, as they inevitably end up powering proprietary software, but at the same time MIT and BSD software is still Free Software and I'd rather have that than proprietary software. It's really hard to convince some people to adopt the GNU licenses, especially when there's money involved, and open source supporters have their own agenda which is incompatible with our ideals. But if those people want to make their software cross-platform and that does not have any impact on GNU/Linux or BSD or Plan 9 or any other Free OS then I say let them do it. Besides, these days it's really hard to write GNU/Linux specific code. Mac OS is a descendant of UNIX and Windows has Cygwin. Even if they decided to use the freest language out there, Emacs Lisp, their code would still be cross-platform; Go's static linking does make things easier but not much, plus who in their right minds would run a server on Mac OS or Windows? On 03/04/2015 04:37 PM, hellekin wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > On 03/04/15 11:07, Digit wrote: >> https://notabug.org/ fulfills many of those criteria listed by Fabio, >> and seems the best option around (so far, given an absence of other >> freedom respecting git webware). >> > *** It's "MIT" as well, and written in Go, a language created by Google. > I don't have anything against Go, I like and use Pond for example, but > I can't hack it, and I can hack Ruby. > > "The goal of this project is to make the easiest, fastest, and most > painless way to set up a self-hosted Git service. With Go, this can be > done via an independent binary distribution across ALL platforms that Go > supports, including Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows." > > So they chose Go to support proprietary software. I don't see that as a > better option for software freedom that the Gitlab "open core" model. If > Gitlab stands with the FSF, they have more chances than say, GNU > Savannah, to be a proper replacement platform than Github. > > "What's wrong with MIT License?" is the question to tackle. When your > whole stack is "MIT", it's a logical thing to do to keep building on the > same license: that's what Gitlab does. Gogs.io licensed their software > as "MIT" as well, although Go itself is licensed under the terms of "a > BSD-style license". In both cases, the vocabulary does not support the > FSF view. > > The Github-Reddit-Twitter-Google-Facebook-Apple-Amazon storm cloud is > going to rain on us any day if there's no alternative. Why is it that > free software developers do not support the FSF? > > == > hk > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2 > > iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJU9yauXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w > ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQ0IyNkIyRTNDNzEyMTc2OUEzNEM4ODU0 > ODA2QzM2M0ZDMTg5ODNEAAoJEEgGw2P8GJg9uMQP+wbPCfEctPe6hOrIcyNtToID > 8WylTjXRW/2tR8MK3vx9dWqc11Sw8OMex+zb2NMMqRTdeMN0yOYBh+nTeNsOnv6/ > pA/t4sK+RNHQ813909yGreE9WCMlfF0OZkwwacJLalJ8LrKRPONJIPaWRV3myzRN > IorZ821qubrwycVFe2Xnc7VtC5KCVQaTOakuyNsEac6iwow7oJXhPbZkP/mPF7yH > vonuVk+7VzVn+zI5fPV9GkoMrq7QUHpJwxlmzGNPxdG0YELXBBhMOxDz2oiLYbKt > 7E33NHnsZmv96kswrHq32eMqmL+DD4vsaikpOOvOaPyYE5rWeTaNQksNJ10vKnt2 > LEpuEUnR7GOYoeVZheoDCRvuyVwhm6F+Wj1eMtkkG2WPqA4PINjwgvyJqTn9uMnl > VyxTpJgkZlEiZOZzen70TP4rN5guUdxq5dKy92HZPzRPm5p9sXLYlWdgnfZioZdy > kn+b/6iu6YW5ySJzG2Fq+135GeUWhLOcHa2zY/rgBgbyCId8ukJ1S/jKkbsg+gdG > pQFKO76uK6pcgH3cr+MR+vYJhVhO/1PVJgyWtvmu0LbYxmtaLe1xO/9xC+v9pyP4 > +QRivqZKa6rToiD/wTVNwvzF9xrEtj/4wFdBCUgn4g1unu4QKP+0O+hIMFXf3ym7 > 16kdvBBHw9HkON+WaZt0 > =qJUb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev From kzer-za at cryptolab.net Fri Mar 6 16:02:13 2015 From: kzer-za at cryptolab.net (Kuba Kukielka) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:02:13 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data Message-ID: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hello, While testing out Debian, I was surprised when I wanted to install 'The Ur-Quan Masters' or 'Rocks'n'Diamonds'. The game's data was only available in the 'non-free' repository which is confusing because Parabola packages these games with the data. So is this data free or non-free? I will do some research on my own to find if the data has a free license on it. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU+c97AAoJEI2NIwdfk/klTIsP/RJoFicX05GgqQsyPX4pjv1G dF8RT9d7nVLx5z+qG1vQmX+3P2QjcOwRdisotlWycPFPntWr7b0uey8StSmajZoE a1kfLXTnPyb98GYMkRBf8qHZhdiAfgCTl+UVGdm/WaTCB8ELPwhc5kZg/n3KV501 mhwc/WTgkhVbo1po/S7RCoLYpqLItH15S1z9urKEH5LtE2aZExLnVdvhh92au+EV QDSqNHWzNLmkluA6cCKyxN5TCx1Y9IK71Bcdp3z0juTMr4n8t9ZD30ex6tLDHOHX cjtVa6MfT9NZCrCldiRYOCy3wJxKhZ0skcahZ20OujZtzhgVFjSYtys1x5DpiqL+ 2pu8apSxQCSu9G2tMhhephDfLzB1qBw1tTLBQidpaiVksBHpLkS6ds6+tBbsom3X HtAnEGBF00j1KWzWf5aMS1rifwrxycBSvtS2flkhAhr1QQr2mn2oZ9EGX6/9Zoy6 xQHoqD05EI7NavPuUfCxn970rSFvJLW6UoHzQF7iZm/vi4qM03b7u2X1igWrYXne uq6NsQpPdLF5pcvAiDpxJNCTizpgtiNgRFxnHexpBYGrQhxgOjP/3Y77CS8iuEeF 05OHdr7AssqmIjNA2MXyoaRfNMcR4Cyut15v6JKlYVslIJ/nGJnjG5wiXVqfKdal OijTQ8O/xuie68wlRqUZ =4K31 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Fri Mar 6 16:25:17 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 13:25:17 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] progress with ceata + decisions to be made Message-ID: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> hi, in the last week i've been in contact with tiberiu (tct) from ceata foundation and we're discussing how parabola and ceata will work together. a summary: * Ceata receives donations and make payments in our behalf gratis. there's no charge on their side for this help they offer us. payments are made on demand and communicated by the parabola delegate. that's me for the present year. * in the case we decide to pay salaries or irregular compensations, ceata is prepared to do it. * if we'd like Ceata to provide legal counsel too, we'd need to talk copyright assignments. i personally like bkuhn's position on this[0] (every contributor is a copyright holder) but it's a decision we need to make collectively. * donations can be received in EUR, USD and RON via bank transfer to Ceata's account. for other methods, they prefer payment systems that have free software clients. apparently paypal can do this, and Ceata will work with the FSF to determine which others are available. * we need to decide how we'll thank them for their support. we've add the supporter logo and a short message on our main page (bottom right) in other cases. i think the donations page should thank Ceata for their support and have a short description on their work (and we can do this on a separate page for other kind of supporters, to be fair to them). they also proppose we add a "with the fiscal support of Ceata Foundation" suffix to our description on the GNU free distros list[1], but since there's been arguments against before[2] we need to decide on this. i think i've covered everything so far, can we make a decision before next friday (2015-03-13)? [0]: http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2011/07/07/harmony-harmful.html spanish version: http://endefensadelsl.org/proyecto_armonia.html [1]: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html [2]: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002637.html -- :> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hellekin at gnu.org Fri Mar 6 17:38:49 2015 From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 14:38:49 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] progress with ceata + decisions to be made In-Reply-To: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <54F9E629.3020103@gnu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 03/06/15 13:25, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > > they also proppose we add a "with the fiscal support of Ceata > Foundation" suffix to our description on the GNU free distros list[1], > but since there's been arguments against before[2] we need to decide > on this. > *** This is not Parabola's turf, so I will check with the GNU webmasters what is the policy for this. == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJU+eYiXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQ0IyNkIyRTNDNzEyMTc2OUEzNEM4ODU0 ODA2QzM2M0ZDMTg5ODNEAAoJEEgGw2P8GJg9KDEP/10GWjnUV1xxv2IE2sw02ikm Oqb/hc8W5ug7cEkuXNWI2CPgGi00D2eZR7S1qYufEahwLKQNFqI3l1EbuHfDBjBq VE5yyE8hzmqQIipz6OhtSJo9Ql1aZRTxjzqSd+pkOppK8cif5L5tToXAzEgcXdaD kWGXb20bB1pyKzO8jzE+/NrT/kNN6SUmyiUjMW/SpO6rU+Dk2gIgje///HERrjg8 hnu0LR4wGmUsE2s0q2camqr6+WElL/67rC9nYpcCr4KbZyTr+Ol0/cCe9RIfNP+f iTCy8RD1Su7pFYj1N9aH5K4Ov2ivJoB5lvL6pJQ9eVts1aoGlaRSVhBy6OY7GCk5 HyTMTvedOxDP5oRz9NHXU4CYYA92Sb7ocMWf0bLPvFqBXAd5SzB8Htcu2lAgugH3 fj3pCBA2yI2sEsUZHhLW6PAlnFxhDT6arF++7KlofCqNS9PRdgXqjZKmQS7GLafj kJ60rt/27EqQgZVWlAgoxPHrMmaH5IZg8aHbAnBbQmj2jxAzQeviavg7B0XZyeNK OYViFMmuhX/6iZZAY7Vl7YwvzrNJNVIoAe5zXaGW/CPGajhYrM8RXYb7pDTzA0fG 4weyOhDIW4zth+gWtRwen4t1jZfFvJIrkKRUPyPaF1xvJ35wsybDGlwi480eWGlr onHVPBXm920dGwYV9Uwt =CsRJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tct at ceata.org Fri Mar 6 17:44:35 2015 From: tct at ceata.org (Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 19:44:35 +0200 Subject: [Dev] [donations] progress with ceata + decisions to be made In-Reply-To: <54F9E629.3020103@gnu.org> References: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54F9E629.3020103@gnu.org> Message-ID: <54F9E783.3080009@ceata.org> On 06.03.2015 19:38, hellekin wrote: > *** This is not Parabola's turf, so I will check with the GNU webmasters > what is the policy for this. Actually, I think it's Parabola's decision. Ceata is fully aligned to the free software philosophy of the GNU project and FSF (especially RMS) recommends Ceata. You can check this with the GNU webmasters, but in the end it's Parabola's decision if it acknowledges Ceata or not. Tiberiu From hellekin at gnu.org Fri Mar 6 17:59:51 2015 From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 14:59:51 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] progress with ceata + decisions to be made In-Reply-To: <54F9E783.3080009@ceata.org> References: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54F9E629.3020103@gnu.org> <54F9E783.3080009@ceata.org> Message-ID: <54F9EB17.5010109@gnu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 03/06/15 14:44, Tiberiu-Cezar Tehnoetic wrote: > > Actually, I think it's Parabola's decision. > *** If Parabola developers had commit privilege to the GNU.org website, I would agree with you. They don't. == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJU+esQXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQ0IyNkIyRTNDNzEyMTc2OUEzNEM4ODU0 ODA2QzM2M0ZDMTg5ODNEAAoJEEgGw2P8GJg9gREQAIpRPRjYO9s1EqNVR+HRLmEJ rxU4zOFpWIb6H4TWbBnWaCibwSbOFxLVL/BH6NDg7Mew5Ye2rhC01kU1FblyfSfu XmFt/Dqav8Mx092oWfE6+icgrKz/BnNxq2HJWLhgk+VxpMRgONKHSPfUXYa2G//w vhZV7OT5w8eJjx3zNneZ5JhDMTDWAC1LjQ0Yx/w30c3RodsCeS5dkGWeTlU9tPc6 WdNEbDPjo6UI7k+IN/TvGAGr0MCpggHJXKCeXqO6UJwvKg3BXCvss47OYT1POhVJ EoIReikbnc6lEqVq7+scGr49CahIfz7M2SplSfup1LAzTSdJ4mW75napogIuaQfG eKlQ9o8AkH+tbzxbPNcQjZlHDSlcv0cUcwVeBe4BJb2ASlmoM1ophU6aA/Di2ZhE FxY44chI2TyrcS9HjiJNZCGEBr932kCp7zcLtFGnjG4Rip/uDFbFagdu5rN3uMK4 5Ry0wpkSO/E4t+HDbVlicuwK/YukZrBdvz+lwf1MilEY3A6xzwkETdEsgZRkJy+k UF+QCPV0ltycyaUD08B9LIe7+umpZTQdYzPpsStD3rHlnmSJRF5oTvs6Aqo27F+7 Tmf0SQEuejp7d0jAMZKiTa9uLvEaRPmtUHEoGc2NOLEqoFJCsQKwTgZw2+8Hpdft kL8DII/VnfVVdEqjrBju =M8xZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From emulatorman at riseup.net Fri Mar 6 18:48:41 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?windows-1252?Q?Andr=E9_Silva?=) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:48:41 -0200 Subject: [Dev] [donations] progress with ceata + decisions to be made In-Reply-To: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <54F9F689.3040105@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 03/06/2015 02:25 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > > * in the case we decide to pay salaries or irregular > compensations, ceata is prepared to do it. > +1 > * if we'd like Ceata to provide legal counsel too, we'd need to > talk copyright assignments. i personally like bkuhn's position on > this[0] (every contributor is a copyright holder) but it's a > decision we need to make collectively. > yes, i like bjuhn's position too > * donations can be received in EUR, USD and RON via bank transfer > to Ceata's account. for other methods, they prefer payment systems > that have free software clients. apparently paypal can do this, > and Ceata will work with the FSF to determine which others are > available. > +1 > * we need to decide how we'll thank them for their support. we've > add the supporter logo and a short message on our main page (bottom > right) in other cases. > +1 > i think the donations page should thank Ceata for their support > and have a short description on their work (and we can do this on > a separate page for other kind of supporters, to be fair to them). > +1 and also, my father and coadde are doing a specific GNU character for the donations page similar than they did for our logo [0]. Otherwise, my father is creating more specific draws about this GNU character to get a better look at our website. [0]:https://wiki.parabola.nu/images/3/33/Logotipo_color.png > they also proppose we add a "with the fiscal support of Ceata > Foundation" suffix to our description on the GNU free distros > list[1], but since there's been arguments against before[2] we need > to decide on this. > I was against "with institutional support...", but "with the fiscal support" is OK for me, because fiscal support is very different than our support made by us inside Parabola. > i think i've covered everything so far, can we make a decision > before next friday (2015-03-13)? > yes, but i think that it should be solved before than that day though. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU+faJAAoJEOaXR1L5cERW1xoP/0RN4NzG70ugJXNxOjj71EeX sB67UUJrRQW4y/9LMps7aw8ykC3BQGysLhMuTYGZ0ptKK6BLBFdvEV8LA5GmO9r8 QP9riZzVHyS1ocpaEa0T6Ie2Q70TsF4EQsCITBbt8eHWYDBTKYUhUO1VRnnwbR7S sRn6XmupQZGJAkvHaCbF+ysBQSkgV6o5mDc8dEF9ZveCdI0dekc9gXoY+R3ryejR /DJnR8fS2O6dS+BzB9M6tCyIP+eaBZf45+mUXsIdl5gsB9Jk/FLiZN1KttKQtomT xbL7unOhoTK8i1dcP7oebzri+P4a3XWH98SbitvHt+CspHBH/+pdj1UAuJc0grQx E/LHq0IqYp6QUgvB7VsqJBBhkjVyC/cSHgQj472oYHfLmgm9ldsNSQsBwAB14EBq PsuUejly6Wg9kkEM2qAqaWvB9rqdX85POraHRf5ZYKPK4Li4lAggL97unxC7VxVf 9q4XXXL6M1b7ZhGKD6uqeXr2QeGzuPKarroeXNOVPiI5PaULFjefJ/2Hs/t85RdP K6QR/EjknXhP+cE3Y/wIIBTpRMNjSS6hk67h/aBjpn9RZIJ3ngA44SkyqxrLQIbR yp5Z2i+/X78cwW3gyaC7S2bilieavuDf/VRtJkpaDYGIY3UsWu2X7lqb49cuGAD5 5faUOe/1NInlhLyQPYU9 =UcbA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mtjm at mtjm.eu Fri Mar 6 18:59:26 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 19:59:26 +0100 Subject: [Dev] [donations] progress with ceata + decisions to be made In-Reply-To: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Nicol=C3=A1?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= Reynolds"'s message of "Fri, 06 Mar 2015 13:25:17 -0300") References: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87wq2ut0j5.fsf@mtjm.eu> > * if we'd like Ceata to provide legal counsel too, we'd need to talk > copyright assignments. i personally like bkuhn's position on this[0] > (every contributor is a copyright holder) but it's a decision we need > to make collectively. -1 for any copyright policy other than inbound=outbound with possibly a DCO. > i think the donations page should thank Ceata for their support and > have a short description on their work (and we can do this on a > separate page for other kind of supporters, to be fair to them). +1. Some people prefer donating to projects where they see that it goes via a trusted organization. > they also proppose we add a "with the fiscal support of Ceata > Foundation" suffix to our description on the GNU free distros list[1], > but since there's been arguments against before[2] we need to decide > on this. One other distro on the list mentions being sponsored by the FSF (having servers hosted by them, but it's more impressive without that detail). It's a question for GNU Webmasters or the FSF Licensing and Compliance Lab, depending on who makes such decisions there, not for us. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mtjm at mtjm.eu Fri Mar 6 19:03:54 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 20:03:54 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> (Kuba Kukielka's message of "Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:02:13 +0000") References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> Message-ID: <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> > While testing out Debian, I was surprised when I wanted to install > 'The Ur-Quan Masters' or 'Rocks'n'Diamonds'. The game's data was only > available in the 'non-free' repository which is confusing because > Parabola packages these games with the data. It's ok to link to descriptions of packages from Debian's non-free. I'm not able to find them. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From isacdaavid at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 21:41:30 2015 From: isacdaavid at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Isaac_David_Reyes_Gonz=C3=A1lez?=) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 15:41:30 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 In-Reply-To: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> References: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: Has anyone tried http://phabricator.org/ out? Apache license, PHP, developed by [spoiler]Facebook[/spoiler], used by Mediawiki. I would really like Gitorious to be forked. On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Jorge Araya Navarro wrote: > FYI: > http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-rival-gitorious-will-shut-june-1/ > -- > Pax et bonum. > Jorge Araya Navarro. > ES: Dise?ador Publicitario, Programador Python y colaborador en Parabola > GNU/Linux-libre > EN: Ads Designer, Python programmer and contributor Parabola > GNU/Linux-libre > EO: Anonco grafikisto, Pitino programalingvo programisto kai kontribuanto > en Parabola GNU/Linux-libre > https://es.gravatar.com/shackra > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kzer-za at cryptolab.net Fri Mar 6 22:58:26 2015 From: kzer-za at cryptolab.net (Kuba Kukielka) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 22:58:26 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 >> While testing out Debian, I was surprised when I wanted to >> install 'The Ur-Quan Masters' or 'Rocks'n'Diamonds'. The game's >> data was only available in the 'non-free' repository which is >> confusing because Parabola packages these games with the data. > > It's ok to link to descriptions of packages from Debian's non-free. > I'm not able to find them. > Sorry about that, here are the links to the packages: - -- UQM First of all, the UQM package itself is in the contrib repo: https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm The content is found in the non-free repo as is the music and the voice package. - - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-content - - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-music - - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-voice The Russian translation of the game is in contrib for some odd reason. - - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-russian - -- Rocks'n'Diamonds The package is located in contrib. - - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/rocksndiamonds There is no package for the data, instead while you are installing the package, it asks you if you would like to install the non-free data or not. If you do not install the data then you cannot play the game. (This is just from memory, I will need to test it again) I found the Debian's mailing list talking about the 'rocksndiamonds' package. - - https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2006/11/msg00104.html I looked at a few level packages found at the creator's website: - - http://www.artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds/levels.html I could not find any license file at all. Also, in UQM's data files, there was no license file present. I could try to post something on their forums. With Artsoft Entertainment I could only find an email address as their way of contact. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU+jENAAoJEI2NIwdfk/klV5sP/R6j8yC3GUYSQltCOk2/lfpE ZgLdZVStLsQWq6ExZutrhKDWjAXA7txdZIKZc3sWVw6JmBLA8T5NvpLWC5Zzni9h WPQ7HK/gfe/N+fATGtAT/xXUkWoJ8W2eSndIIHjZGRE2tlCyQC6ar/7dsF0ppYfZ xDetlsDlEZ2L9AoDx7YS9DQOwzhdPx7RghotruJfhxjzyUP6bFA3gmrMha0jJZRM vSZxa8sxyUjw1zt8tgBAlXjb50LjZZ1VCXMMP+urg7YE1fDblcqBhTb40ESafM0R Sc7oL3ThycbSLOqdJkrsF/yruGkGddiuFdgpx7nmn+yHvcxz/GgXBfv7woUZF9Vb G4Sml9bt692Sqv6CA27CtpncreiBYKnOsDFonmrC6lLC5tN/tILeH4O+O6Cu70Ed TewC0ZPi5RTU4Xt7/vmitqlOkKMtLndhUIW7BLcnYTB6X7ROtXbp7sERF6QyqOt6 A4SxBym6oTviY+COI3zSF5lYd6rkGLyjGkZV0jqrwoGo1aylrjbj2ZSqgqFBefbm usv9qabNeXfZMKrUeVGY5Sg7QTHNaH1ejHEoL0YaNNCAAWBzjVC8VTbCRgS4PUbZ bjidBjYd0Qbl9ir7NrcCTIDwtNU3UZT7ntEhx27umzGcN1dA5VNc7I+fVVt1T9g2 RWbmBGWTjSexxh5k924v =Un6z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fabio at pesari.eu Sat Mar 7 09:19:53 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 10:19:53 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Code collaboration platform GitLab acquires rival Gitorious, will shut it down on June 1 In-Reply-To: References: <87sidl2ac9.fsf@abril.charola> Message-ID: <54FAC2B9.6000002@pesari.eu> On 03/06/2015 10:41 PM, Isaac David Reyes Gonz?lez wrote: > Has anyone tried http://phabricator.org/ out? > Apache license, PHP, developed by [spoiler]Facebook[/spoiler], used by > Mediawiki. As a program, it looks great (and supports Git as well as SVN and HG), and being written in PHP is actually an advantage - it is an awful language but everybody knows it and once PHP 7 comes out it will get better. Is there a Phabricator hosting facility committed to Free Software like there is for Gogs? I could only find enterprise sites like Phoreplay (childish name) and Phab.io (my own name, I disapprove). (Also, I find it a bit weird that Phabricator's official site links to Starcraft II and Pok?mon wikis in the footer. And their attempts at "nerd" humor are just cringeworthy) > I would really like Gitorious to be forked. > It probably will be - there are many people who use it locally. I would fork it since I know Ruby but to be honest, I really disliked it, but sure, it'd be great if the project survived. From mtjm at mtjm.eu Sat Mar 7 09:30:56 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 10:30:56 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> (Kuba Kukielka's message of "Fri, 06 Mar 2015 22:58:26 +0000") References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> Message-ID: <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> > - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-content > - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-music > - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-voice Licensed under CC-BY-NC-SA which is nonfree. > The Russian translation of the game is in contrib for some odd reason. > > - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-russian Since the game is also in contrib and it has dependencies in non-free. > -- Rocks'n'Diamonds [...] > - https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2006/11/msg00104.html [...] > I could not find any license file at all. These are sufficient reasons to not include it. > Also, in UQM's data files, there was no license file present. So where would Debian have the license from? Both should be blacklisted in Parabola (with a reference to a labs issue with a link to this thread), unless someone finds that this is different for the version used in Parabola. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kzer-za at cryptolab.net Sat Mar 7 10:32:22 2015 From: kzer-za at cryptolab.net (Kuba Kukielka) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 10:32:22 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <54FAD3B6.90800@cryptolab.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 >> Also, in UQM's data files, there was no license file present. > > So where would Debian have the license from? On the UQM's wiki, I found that the game is licensed by the GPL but the music, content and voice are licensed by CC-BY-NC-SA license. - - http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/The_Ur-Quan_Masters_Project_FAQ#Under_what_license_is_the_game_released.3F These games should be removed from Parabola's repositories. I will create a labs issue soon. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU+tOxAAoJEI2NIwdfk/kla+8P/iFHjL1qDHWD3NvH1sdePver GGv9bIDYFfEGn80RoNCQR/Op4q+hH6PjVcWA0JejdDuGkmEJWQNHotDJ2LYRRVR0 Wwmgy9vHmGfPr2s8973ZJxQFUEKDVXa1yUJQA1fN2+b0p6o8im0JPvx3bUAA9hUB 6MKH4toO8NX+gaCn5CYUmGPXzWWfbsRcIm7VzCAqeh5YsB3qKonpMF5vIKpB9nva pVlPpTsF6vL6IYDPBh5k/UnhOyak9JHfOqFWQ1xPgb7E07WZBjpkRACxzAMc4In+ uX+3ko4rTF25/UF7v+TN6u/XwchavN9+1L27IVW7XV/D+ITu4dyQ6bRdQ4hNSoId WzNYO+aCPcJTPiooVbe690NMDliFmm8qaTIpzZcH6sol54ZBxazt0VezBxMzYE0J wE/Z627cERsUfFpOtOlFhvhlYkSVL4/4zgTy0QutQSUgr0XrtH13fQoFE/7671gK 2cck41QHE2/lloOIPQK0dU3sQGxiap0Qii4qfT0BUwcrsa8cAQWxTV+vRFk5URLA Ug/5T30tzdaMEs7MQmng3OHvkWXO/g1Mip+EPb3v6H3Dk8s7b27vrHix7vm32+2c J7yjyBPJzpXZVldxSG81LZWbuNisBpiNz4KZvo5pFULNB9ODDilaOllj9KEAfUzy gXw3xUx0eRiu/bM1DwdQ =Bf2z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kzer-za at cryptolab.net Sat Mar 7 10:46:20 2015 From: kzer-za at cryptolab.net (Kuba Kukielka) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 10:46:20 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FAD6BC.2070902@cryptolab.net> References: <54FAD6BC.2070902@cryptolab.net> Message-ID: <54FAD6FC.1010104@cryptolab.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I looked on some more files from R'n'D and I found one called rnd_jue: http://www.jb-line.de/rnd/rnd_start_e.html I downloaded the file and it did have a COPYING file with the GPL license on it. The thing is that it seems to be another version of R'n'D and I don't know if the levels in that package are licensed too. I am really confused. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU+tb8AAoJEI2NIwdfk/klDIAQAITE84LZcKXY1TbFykOqumrD +Lh0uMhNEDsUClp0Vdlkm6cu7KAwAWoB6Dw+fs7asT37Qq5o+ycU0kRKwn/gPCrG fNv0er3opHCg3JXRhBRGrkDKnHBZvNHrsvs6hFWChbeOGxoRx9VW6Acz3R2qiAQ5 RtzXNokmN+WIAf8BxccM8flWAPkxFNyTPHLdzrJwmjp9B/6a95wr6y6RU6D1+qGy hnT9dZKhWskD1ciLB9ZuOxNGCepSP4xWlktLSvKGNVVGVRikmVvdyLaoAqlPUKn8 KNXx+pxDNK3kuaGNJrqJf5kKmtghVQ7H0RG9pZkRklU1IIZyxAaj6OJPdUSj/+Cr RmRL+BFmqTcix9yvdiJnaMbU73PpU7jf3kjlpZAnyCBz8DAuQh5wh1FnxICj69tM lMBl3m5chsbO04FqUGqkY2M+i3zisfd/anGKu+fOLGGLMjhAaAcTgUdHzcLUXVXV wIR4GwjdGIPppXmoKcD0NvSgZ4QfVx3haEZ1CwM5NVvnEWPUvU2D2GaRvy2zRNZW 1y7ARfcavOJCmy/WiptuORJH0nBJpOOBYFG4DnMk0VhEjQCo0E76oj+Wgv86D7Si vQvenJb2jRJ02RsEXioQwO+o+njy3uHGKVCxVZUz6lSv9frqhpjUK26FvE4Sp2jS gZmoj7l4FTlvrqG9zm+Z =f2nQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fabio at pesari.eu Sat Mar 7 10:53:48 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 11:53:48 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> On 03/07/2015 10:30 AM, Micha? Mas?owski wrote: >> - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-content >> - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-music >> - https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/uqm-voice > Licensed under CC-BY-NC-SA which is nonfree. > [...] > > Both should be blacklisted in Parabola I agree that the nonfree data should not be included in Parabola but I personally disagree about the blacklisting. There is a huge difference between Free Software and Free Culture: Free Software is a social movement while Free Culture is a cultural movement. But most importantly, art is free from many of the implications of software: you will never be relying on art to monitor your heart rate, for example (and if so, it means it's powered by either hardware or software). Parabola is a free distro and as such, I agree that it should commit to Freedom, 100%. But at the same time, I see no reason the *code* shouldn't be distributed, if it's fully free. I'm saying this because someone committed to Free Software isn't necessarily committed to Free Culture. From GNU.org itself: > We don't take the position that artistic or entertainment works must > be free, but if you want to make one free, we recommend the Free Art > License > and again > Works of art, and works that state a point of view, are different > issues; the GNU Project has no general stand about how they should be > released, except that they should all be usable without nonfree > software (in particular, without DRM) Games with fully free code fit that requirement, regardless of the license under which their assets are released. For the record, I support Free Culture, but at the same time I think it should be considered a completely separate issue from Free Software. From kzer-za at cryptolab.net Sat Mar 7 11:05:36 2015 From: kzer-za at cryptolab.net (Kuba Kukielka) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 11:05:36 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <54FADB80.80605@cryptolab.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I never thought of that. Parabola is non-commercial, so we can distribute UQM's data, but if R'n'D's data does not have a license, does this mean that we cannot distribute it? Instead, would we have to manually install these levels? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU+tt7AAoJEI2NIwdfk/klnskP/iT0YklFQphcuFDNtZQvhM5W lKXgcAES0pYi6KmIThvFj8dLuTBPNr6UV8004/INHs/T43KFdz5iuYESZrfXhoe4 ZCfXD1/E1yHhcq321K6OTewBijTZGQqR/rsebh/718zhFLdRvUIF0sdceyTZpG6j /PphBdO8FMe7xeXgWqFP8DruuIKrU9iL2MoX93g18vXqFlbRuq+a+mh3b3fHC7u8 mYyip8Nks/4t4ZE+OzQ/LB9LCsTbpDcS3eMoryOD6NAe5gjVllirjucAeWZ7S+TX pfAyRpzTcWs38aFXC1r413dHZTzkG+qpXNqFEQp2hZnryOKIzq6eEwDJsmIkydKE mrjOxOzeVE0bZsm0N/3p/MjAakj5jd0ENnllHYFQ/3BMmv0GzRpROiaORS4K/plT Hw9UcvhaCh6KsF9jJnJT/rH7KE69w0iyF28CKkhJ2zDChWlyzt3UjlExgUG2mt8O QaCWh8z79ps1WEL+2fMiz3rmQxUiw6d7EsuYSiYKkrgGmiQYJYeOt4idoF2ob4Et ezsxYWI64JLTKuccGysOpO2ICoXSmVjvXRwrFjDyrK6g3JsUpgVVU+aOe5Y3GAle dMGBub6rh6RNT7zPFpbZ/mk1nQG4Zy0fy4a1/UdXPcyYvY8QaqJpWMbJ0xG3ZloP wV6vjd1aIHUUjF8UTG2a =PXaZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kzer-za at cryptolab.net Sat Mar 7 11:09:40 2015 From: kzer-za at cryptolab.net (Kuba Kukielka) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 11:09:40 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FAD3B6.90800@cryptolab.net> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD3B6.90800@cryptolab.net> Message-ID: <54FADC74.5070403@cryptolab.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I will halt creating any labs issue yet, I think we need to get to the bottom of this problem. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU+txzAAoJEI2NIwdfk/kl9pAP/2KarMmOSjFlnWONFnSyLpoB Rt1XdmevqNde+CJ7cCKCvk6pTXNPKDo2Ab/QLLnDpLJEnIEDQ7i9uyF6FMgX5uFU E0mlXQlKLioWpFC96nszKYfgxRDiOB3uEANDcxZCCPAQgOSnOIabWGq5gU6m1iKN 1jqotEEBvg6OKSKW4Hzwl0CCu+l4ON4IQYxrMMHknr078VU/cpfrbE1cdOMra19H eEttWgBnc4nfTGe2ebak3Cf/5eEtnTji8RzGOJjI+mAY0IFR/2jUPL9HtfhfaoAt +I9+PoOgbTD9x6bO06blxiZ+5rdO73R2XXZI6CRyA3yp1DRWfOH/CV471hnRAtYM 4Q/GJi3rUr3f5i1XoUGc0JEI943vw9BAgW/XKjGHlBeOvPa6IC7yp7B1eJI73ahj yeWXtiQ35sDSPOOWt+o2PO44PTeHAcB8eNn8XvFpYmjVYq3zriF3bQYsx4ZEPyTq 4uHEOfWPAiL1CO3L1BPAG+8jKPxMCi631AvnrR+J1hotIOIhZWT0iApfEQAKUYGB 7BzHNMRluODsVu6LBnQqVqV0YMdg2JuMnymtNibx2q4K8X08aJDRNEJeoEJ83tP9 pMAF6NAgNalPO8VHJWWoKwssMisPvRDe5RD//37RGEcWAxZtBfQ8Fu/437/pStRz a63iCK7zMdXykxWrRcbF =y+a2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mtjm at mtjm.eu Sat Mar 7 11:14:20 2015 From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 12:14:20 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> (Fabio Pesari's message of "Sat, 07 Mar 2015 11:53:48 +0100") References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> > I agree that the nonfree data should not be included in Parabola but I > personally disagree about the blacklisting. It's easier here: https://gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data (which we follow) forbids NC. The idea is that a business could sell CDs with Parabola packages. > There is a huge difference between Free Software and Free Culture: Free > Software is a social movement while Free Culture is a cultural movement. Why isn't it also a social movement, and why it's a separate movement? (I don't believe it's possible to obsolete DRM without obsoleting nonfree cultural works. Laws made to prevent users from modifying or sharing cultural works restrict software: see DMCA.) > But most importantly, art is free from many of the implications of > software: you will never be relying on art to monitor your heart rate, > for example (and if so, it means it's powered by either hardware or > software). And software will never use art, and it's obvious for us if a work will have a practical purpose while copyright exists? (I don't believe I could correctly predict what happens during next 130 years, and this is assuming no copyright extensions.) > Parabola is a free distro and as such, I agree that it should commit to > Freedom, 100%. But at the same time, I see no reason the *code* > shouldn't be distributed, if it's fully free. It shouldn't be distributed if it cannot be used with only data that we distribute. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fabio at pesari.eu Sat Mar 7 12:34:58 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 13:34:58 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> Message-ID: <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> > It's easier here: > https://gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data > (which we follow) forbids NC. The idea is that a business could sell > CDs with Parabola packages. It talks about data and never mentions code, so releasing just the code would not go against guidelines, right? > Why isn't it also a social movement, and why it's a separate movement? > (I don't believe it's possible to obsolete DRM without obsoleting > nonfree cultural works. Laws made to prevent users from modifying or > sharing cultural works restrict software: see DMCA.) The two are obviously related but fundamentally, the purpose of art is different from that of software. In short, I can decide to live without art but I cannot do the same with software (directly or indirectly), and this is a fact that will never change. But fundamentally, I was just referring to the difference between society and culture. In any case, there are more important, related issues of which the Free Software community should take care. Hardware is a big problem, for example, and so is freedom on the Internet. > And software will never use art, and it's obvious for us if a work will > have a practical purpose while copyright exists? If we separate the art from the implementation, things are a bit easier. Art cannot really be used (only consumed), but data can. With games, it's hard to tell when one ends and the other starts, and this is part of an old debate ("are games art?"). But one thing that is easy to discern is how the game is executed, and that is its code. > It shouldn't be distributed if it cannot be used with only data that we > distribute. If we extend this to other programs, it's a dangerous slippery slope. Those games can be used with any data that fits their specifications. For example, the authors of Open Arena have used the Quake 3 source along with their own free assets to make their version of Quake 3. Would that have been possible without the Quake 3 source code? No, theirs would have been just a clone (like FreeCiv). If we free software supporters start looking down on free software because it does not fit some criteria external to the software itself, we'll waste a lot of precious time fighting among ourselves. From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sat Mar 7 14:41:01 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 11:41:01 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Fabio Pesari writes: >> It's easier here: >> https://gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html#non-functional-data >> (which we follow) forbids NC. The idea is that a business could sell >> CDs with Parabola packages. > > It talks about data and never mentions code, so releasing just the code > would not go against guidelines, right? i thought the wiki said it (or we lost it on one of the many migrations...) but parabola is also commited to free culture, and that's why we don't include artwork with non-commercial (also disallowed by the fsdg) or non-derivative (allowed by the fsdg) terms. in cases like these, and it's always about game data, the solution is to approach the developers and ask them for relicensing. we've barely done that in five years. blacklisting is the only method we have so far... it sounds awful but i'd better not make it a newspeak term. blacklisting is freedom! :P -- D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fabio at pesari.eu Sat Mar 7 17:46:44 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 18:46:44 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <54FB3984.60909@pesari.eu> On 03/07/2015 03:41 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > i thought the wiki said it (or we lost it on one of the many > migrations...) but parabola is also commited to free culture, That's good to know, as I too support it. But I looked around and I could not find it in the Wiki, I only found the rule in https://wiki.parabola.nu/Package_freedom_verification_problems but if Parabola is explicitly committed to Free Culture, I think it should be in the homepage or in the social contract. > and that's > why we don't include artwork with non-commercial (also disallowed by the > fsdg) or non-derivative (allowed by the fsdg) terms. That's fine, but I never proposed that...I was talking about binaries only, not data. Most distros already do it, to some extent - for example, all those games which require proprietary assets (such as Chocolate Doom and CorsixTH) are always distributed without any data. > in cases like these, and it's always about game data, the solution is to > approach the developers and ask them for relicensing. we've barely done > that in five years. > > blacklisting is the only method we have so far... it sounds awful but > i'd better not make it a newspeak term. > > blacklisting is freedom! :P Over the years, I asked the developers of many such projects to liberate their assets. The most common answers I've received are: 1. If they did that, the mobile market would be flooded with poor versions of their games and their brand would be tarnished 2. They would like to sell the game, and they don't like the idea that somebody else could be their competitor 3. Their game is a clone of a commercial game and they need to keep the assets NC to avoid lawsuits (UQM falls under this category) 4. They don't have the authority to do so Now, we can contact the developers, but it's very unlikely they will change their minds. My hope is that some people will make free assets from scratch for those games, but for games like UQM I'm afraid it will just not happen. People are still selling Zork, a game written in 1977, in 2015; people get very upset when you try to profit off their IP but can be kinder toward non-commercial efforts. From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sat Mar 7 17:58:48 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 14:58:48 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FB3984.60909@pesari.eu> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB3984.60909@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <87oao4y9if.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Fabio Pesari writes: > On 03/07/2015 03:41 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >> i thought the wiki said it (or we lost it on one of the many >> migrations...) but parabola is also commited to free culture, > > That's good to know, as I too support it. > > But I looked around and I could not find it in the Wiki, I only found > the rule in > https://wiki.parabola.nu/Package_freedom_verification_problems but if > Parabola is explicitly committed to Free Culture, I think it should be > in the homepage or in the social contract. i thought it was on the social contract... >> and that's why we don't include artwork with non-commercial (also >> disallowed by the fsdg) or non-derivative (allowed by the fsdg) >> terms. > > That's fine, but I never proposed that...I was talking about binaries > only, not data. Most distros already do it, to some extent - for > example, all those games which require proprietary assets (such as > Chocolate Doom and CorsixTH) are always distributed without any data. so you would distribute a binary package that's only useful with artwork not available on repos? that's like a *nudge nudge* to go use unfree stuff outside them :P >> in cases like these, and it's always about game data, the solution is >>to approach the developers and ask them for relicensing. we've barely >>done that in five years. blacklisting is the only method we have so >>far... it sounds awful but i'd better not make it a newspeak term. >>blacklisting is freedom! :P > > Over the years, I asked the developers of many such projects to liberate > their assets. > > The most common answers I've received are: > > 1. If they did that, the mobile market would be flooded with poor > versions of their games and their brand would be tarnished if they'd use a copyleft license at least the artwork must be attributed to the game developers and re-distributed under the same license. freerider game developers would use any artwork available independently of the license i'd assume, while everyone else gets equally fucked by the nonfree terms. > 2. They would like to sell the game, and they don't like the idea that > somebody else could be their competitor same as before... here's a nice article on non-commercial terms and free culture. http://freedomdefined.org/Licenses/NC > 3. Their game is a clone of a commercial game and they need to keep the > assets NC to avoid lawsuits (UQM falls under this category) i've heard of many lawsuits were there wasn't any commercial interest... maybe the gamer community is more forgiving, which i doubt :P > 4. They don't have the authority to do so ? > Now, we can contact the developers, but it's very unlikely they will > change their minds. > > My hope is that some people will make free assets from scratch for those > games, but for games like UQM I'm afraid it will just not happen. People > are still selling Zork, a game written in 1977, in 2015; people get very > upset when you try to profit off their IP but can be kinder toward > non-commercial efforts. -- :{ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sat Mar 7 18:21:53 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 15:21:53 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] progress with ceata + decisions to be made In-Reply-To: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87lhj8y8fy.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Nicol?s Reynolds writes: > hi, in the last week i've been in contact with tiberiu (tct) from ceata > foundation and we're discussing how parabola and ceata will work > together. > > [...] > i think i've covered everything so far, can we make a decision before > next friday (2015-03-13)? > > > [0]: http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2011/07/07/harmony-harmful.html > spanish version: http://endefensadelsl.org/proyecto_armonia.html > > [1]: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html > > [2]: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2014-December/002637.html ok, summary so far: * changing the description to thank ceata on the gnu free distros list needs to be confirmed with gnu webmasters. hellekin is confirming this. but if the description change is on our hands, do we want to change it or not? * so far there's consensus that we prefer inbound=outbound instead of copyright assigments * also, the donations page will be clear about our relationship with ceata and have a short summary of who they are. -- http://wiki.hackcoop.com.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fabio at pesari.eu Sat Mar 7 18:53:31 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 19:53:31 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <87oao4y9if.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB3984.60909@pesari.eu> <87oao4y9if.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <54FB492B.5030601@pesari.eu> On 03/07/2015 06:58 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > so you would distribute a binary package that's only useful with artwork > not available on repos? that's like a *nudge nudge* to go use unfree > stuff outside them :P Well, we distribute emulators and they are only useful with nonfree ROMs not available on repos, aren't they? What about PDF readers? Web browsers? I personally would see it as a way to support free software and to recognize it as such. Those programs are fully functional and free, nothing stops users from providing their own assets (as long as the required asset pipeline is also free, otherwise the game should be blacklisted as a whole). > http://freedomdefined.org/Licenses/NC I just finished reading it. One interesting thing is that even they could not find any conclusions for content users, aside from "ask the authors to change the terms of the license". If I run a free game, I can read its code and be 100% sure it's not backdoored. If its assets are nonfree, I can still be 100% sure that it's not backdoored. Let's say my main reason to use free software is security or privacy, how would free assets affect me? >From a content author perspective, I disagree with their conclusions. I think the NC still offers a clear advantage: the end users are not affected by it, only potential competitors. I think this article is being overly optimistic regarding how people value their philosophical integrity, especially when profit is concerned. I bet the developers of games like UQM don't feel bad about themselves, and why should they? They've done more for libre gaming than many other people. By releasing a high-quality game, they made a lot of people realize that free gaming does not necessarily mean Pac Man clones and text games and attracted them to free software. And that's why I say that while similar in spirit, Free Software and Free Culture are separate movements. Free culture is for the most part content author culture while Free software is for the most part user culture. Of course, a person which champions freedom in general will support both, but in my opinion they do not hold the same importance. > i've heard of many lawsuits were there wasn't any commercial > interest... maybe the gamer community is more forgiving, which i doubt > :P Usually developers issue a cease-and-desist against noncommercial developers, they go harder on those who profit from their IP. > ? The developers have agreed to free the code but the artists haven't agreed to free the assets. From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sat Mar 7 19:22:22 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 16:22:22 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FB492B.5030601@pesari.eu> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB3984.60909@pesari.eu> <87oao4y9if.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB492B.5030601@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <877fusy5n5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Fabio Pesari writes: > On 03/07/2015 06:58 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >> so you would distribute a binary package that's only useful with artwork >> not available on repos? that's like a *nudge nudge* to go use unfree >> stuff outside them :P > > Well, we distribute emulators and they are only useful with nonfree ROMs > not available on repos, aren't they? sure, but do they need to be distributed alongside them? > What about PDF readers? Web browsers? i think we should always have freedom #0 in mind. these are free software, we shouldn't mess with how people want to use them, while we don't need to distribute unfree things for them to be useful. > I personally would see it as a way to support free software and to > recognize it as such. Those programs are fully functional and free, > nothing stops users from providing their own assets (as long as the > required asset pipeline is also free, otherwise the game should be > blacklisted as a whole). > >> http://freedomdefined.org/Licenses/NC > > I just finished reading it. One interesting thing is that even they > could not find any conclusions for content users, aside from "ask the > authors to change the terms of the license". > > If I run a free game, I can read its code and be 100% sure it's not > backdoored. If its assets are nonfree, I can still be 100% sure that > it's not backdoored. Let's say my main reason to use free software is > security or privacy, how would free assets affect me? > > From a content author perspective, I disagree with their conclusions. I > think the NC still offers a clear advantage: the end users are not > affected by it, only potential competitors. I think this article is > being overly optimistic regarding how people value their philosophical > integrity, especially when profit is concerned. I bet the developers of > games like UQM don't feel bad about themselves, and why should they? > They've done more for libre gaming than many other people. By releasing > a high-quality game, they made a lot of people realize that free gaming > does not necessarily mean Pac Man clones and text games and attracted > them to free software. > > And that's why I say that while similar in spirit, Free Software and > Free Culture are separate movements. Free culture is for the most part > content author culture while Free software is for the most part user > culture. in that case i prefer dmytri kleiner's distinction between free software and free culture :P http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/ > Of course, a person which champions freedom in general will support > both, but in my opinion they do not hold the same importance. > >> i've heard of many lawsuits were there wasn't any commercial >> interest... maybe the gamer community is more forgiving, which i doubt >> :P > > Usually developers issue a cease-and-desist against noncommercial > developers, they go harder on those who profit from their IP. > >> ? > > The developers have agreed to free the code but the artists haven't > agreed to free the assets. > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- :> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fabio at pesari.eu Sat Mar 7 20:04:59 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 21:04:59 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <877fusy5n5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB3984.60909@pesari.eu> <87oao4y9if.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB492B.5030601@pesari.eu> <877fusy5n5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <54FB59EB.5090403@pesari.eu> On 03/07/2015 08:22 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > > sure, but do they need to be distributed alongside them? Neither do game assets, technically. But I get what you're saying: a binary game package without data would be useless, and I agree. It would also be useless to keep arguing about this, since we are clearly both Free Culture supporters and we both agree that Parabola should not distribute the assets. I was just proposing a way to keep distributing free software while leaving the nonfree data out, but since you said that Parabola aligns itself with free culture, I think the users will understand if some free software will be excluded in order to comply with it. Still, I'd really like to see as many libre games in Parabola's repos as possible. > in that case i prefer dmytri kleiner's distinction between free software > and free culture :P > > http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/ > That's quite a read, I hope I'll find the time for it later! From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sat Mar 7 20:41:22 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 17:41:22 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FB59EB.5090403@pesari.eu> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB3984.60909@pesari.eu> <87oao4y9if.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB492B.5030601@pesari.eu> <877fusy5n5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB59EB.5090403@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <874mpwy1zh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Fabio Pesari writes: > On 03/07/2015 08:22 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >> >> sure, but do they need to be distributed alongside them? > > Neither do game assets, technically. But I get what you're saying: a > binary game package without data would be useless, and I agree. > > It would also be useless to keep arguing about this, since we are > clearly both Free Culture supporters and we both agree that Parabola > should not distribute the assets. I was just proposing a way to keep > distributing free software while leaving the nonfree data out, but > since you said that Parabola aligns itself with free culture, I think > the users will understand if some free software will be excluded in > order to comply with it. > > Still, I'd really like to see as many libre games in Parabola's repos as > possible. me too. i wasn't saying anything final, just stating what solutions we've found in the past :) -- :{ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kzer-za at cryptolab.net Sat Mar 7 22:02:56 2015 From: kzer-za at cryptolab.net (Kuba Kukielka) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 22:02:56 +0000 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <874mpwy1zh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB3984.60909@pesari.eu> <87oao4y9if.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB492B.5030601@pesari.eu> <877fusy5n5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB59EB.5090403@pesari.eu> <874mpwy1zh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <54FB7590.4000201@cryptolab.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 So what are we going to do now? Are we going to have a script that downloads the data and installs it (like in Debian) or are we going to continue distributing this? I would say that the best way of doing this is to distribute the game itself and then have an option to download the data. (The user would have to be warned that the images are non-free/under a non-commercial license) To individuals it will not be a problem, the only thing they want to do is play a game but for commercial purposes, or if you want to modify and distribute it, then problems might happen. This should be very clearly addressed to the user that is installing the package. Give them a choice, if someone is a really determined supporter of Free Culture, they will know that the package has images/music that does not have a free license and not install it. Unless Parabola will have rules on including non-free images/music then I think this method should be applied. (I don't know how to write the script though.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU+3WCAAoJEI2NIwdfk/klW4oQAIM7Yn7KbSW1BLy6tYet292J uPaoCtYu78fn/5482GbDOw0ad9HCRhOxaugR20Ugx06jreMYE1YVmIajYfyBVxkO ZnH/NLt0kupdMY6mb4WI/qeUZ5Jo7USiRp1PYWwSoHmqd9Pi/Q55ftG3Vq60WN4o 9zMW6lOsvHsz8aZ8kUpDfyOHR1gumLxqCnKMMLJRLHPdkOKL0xrONt6FnA+qh1so oy31N1OmXPzBROQKscGgDAoIA0cKDpGwi2tBCOtJlfHTONf0FiBN0nQrdYrzkEnN 63zB+CfB68gjEwozDjE60k2MhcNMZQ59dDi1Bp8BMafHIwdqtl/Ahm7kesF+JRB2 dSK/icZxkeaAxwIeVPDDUC23pnNOq3fOTSzhl3evQ9H0B2UsZkFjZ+I4zj34pnp2 zdzYgbMnwAFqmLvn5ZCARik7fl1SG1QqQJ3qMQdkYtEzXg24MeP3I/MPxDFqWMCr csI3++O3nQITR+eBjYpTkmB5mphednF1fgsrTQJYCnDPVH/txyDRA/8qKdIbQZUU AXFvlNjr03q+rI1usMy/zf8Q2Fa7dCCca2eWWDRTyVEKIfc3ZhhfL1z01ppS/Owv wlW7h1tQdKzR95qeRIdLoHbw6EMYKlUDweGuCM1Of0b4SV9Mfph/tMRzw11z5WqB cLJ+69GF8uA459IMsO5a =iJiw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sat Mar 7 22:11:08 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 19:11:08 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Confusion about game data In-Reply-To: <54FB7590.4000201@cryptolab.net> References: <54F9CF85.30902@cryptolab.net> <87sidit0bp.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FA3112.90000@cryptolab.net> <87h9tx5f3j.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAD8BC.2070104@pesari.eu> <87d24l5ab7.fsf@mtjm.eu> <54FAF072.2080409@pesari.eu> <87385gzx8i.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB3984.60909@pesari.eu> <87oao4y9if.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB492B.5030601@pesari.eu> <877fusy5n5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB59EB.5090403@pesari.eu> <874mpwy1zh.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FB7590.4000201@cryptolab.net> Message-ID: <871tl0xxtv.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Kuba Kukielka writes: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > So what are we going to do now? Are we going to have a script that > downloads the data and installs it (like in Debian) or are we going to > continue distributing this? > > I would say that the best way of doing this is to distribute the game > itself and then have an option to download the data. (The user would > have to be warned that the images are non-free/under a non-commercial > license) i think this is a non-option for us... -- http://partidopirata.com.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fabio at pesari.eu Tue Mar 10 10:44:25 2015 From: fabio at pesari.eu (Fabio Pesari) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 11:44:25 +0100 Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org Message-ID: <54FECB09.2050701@pesari.eu> GNU.org's list of free distros ([1]) links to http://www.parabola.nu/https/, which is the explanation for the "untrusted site" warning for the HTTPS version. I am a webmaster for GNU.org and we've recently received a request to change the link to https://www.parabola.nu . But before doing that, we must reach a consensus (as suggested by Emulatorman). To which page should GNU.org link, http://www.parabola.nu/https/ or https://www.parabola.nu? Thank you. [1]: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Mar 10 12:18:31 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:18:31 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org In-Reply-To: <54FECB09.2050701@pesari.eu> References: <54FECB09.2050701@pesari.eu> Message-ID: <87lhj52gh4.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Fabio Pesari writes: > GNU.org's list of free distros ([1]) links to > http://www.parabola.nu/https/, which is the explanation for the > "untrusted site" warning for the HTTPS version. > > I am a webmaster for GNU.org and we've recently received a request to > change the link to https://www.parabola.nu . But before doing that, we > must reach a consensus (as suggested by Emulatorman). > > To which page should GNU.org link, http://www.parabola.nu/https/ or > https://www.parabola.nu? Thank you. > > [1]: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html iirc, mattl asked for an http version of the site since many people can just assume the site doesn't work because of the missing CA certificate. our only http page is that one. -- :{ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From icarious at hacari.org Tue Mar 10 14:16:52 2015 From: icarious at hacari.org (Icarious) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 19:46:52 +0530 Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org Message-ID: <20150310194652.ec104364051a627ee29bd9af@hacari.org> > GNU.org's list of free distros ([1]) links to > http://www.parabola.nu/https/, which is the explanation for the > "untrusted site" warning for the HTTPS version. > > I am a webmaster for GNU.org and we've recently received a request to > change the link to https://www.parabola.nu . But before doing that, we > must reach a consensus (as suggested by Emulatorman). > > To which page should GNU.org link, http://www.parabola.nu/https/ or > https://www.parabola.nu? Thank you. > > [1]: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html > I think that the default http page exists for a valid reason. Not every OS/ GNU Distribution ships with the CAcert package (Arch deprecated support few months back and I don't know about others). Also FSDG distributions like Trisquel doesn't ship that package either. So if we change the default page to https://www.parabola.nu, then the visitor will bump across a scary "This Connection is Untrusted" error and will have no explanation as to the reason behind that error and how to bypass the error, making s/he believe that the site is untrustworthy. The current default page provides an explanation and possible work around to bypass that error. -1 to the change. -- Icarious GPG Public Key : 0x4428BA28AA2ACCD2 GPG Fingerprint : 6C37 E88E DD0B F042 7A15 676E 4428 BA28 AA2A CCD2 www.gnuos.in -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Mar 10 15:43:17 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?windows-1252?Q?Andr=E9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 12:43:17 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org In-Reply-To: <20150310194652.ec104364051a627ee29bd9af@hacari.org> References: <20150310194652.ec104364051a627ee29bd9af@hacari.org> Message-ID: <54FF1115.50206@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 03/10/2015 11:16 AM, Icarious wrote: >> GNU.org's list of free distros ([1]) links to >> http://www.parabola.nu/https/, which is the explanation for the >> "untrusted site" warning for the HTTPS version. >> >> I am a webmaster for GNU.org and we've recently received a >> request to change the link to https://www.parabola.nu . But >> before doing that, we must reach a consensus (as suggested by >> Emulatorman). >> >> To which page should GNU.org link, http://www.parabola.nu/https/ >> or https://www.parabola.nu? Thank you. >> >> [1]: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html >> > > I think that the default http page exists for a valid reason. Not > every OS/ GNU Distribution ships with the CAcert package (Arch > deprecated support few months back and I don't know about others). > Also FSDG distributions like Trisquel doesn't ship that package > either. So if we change the default page to > https://www.parabola.nu, then the visitor will bump across a scary > "This Connection is Untrusted" error and will have no explanation > as to the reason behind that error and how to bypass the error, > making s/he believe that the site is untrustworthy. The current > default page provides an explanation and possible work around to > bypass that error. > > -1 to the change. > Could we resolve that problem using another certificate for our page like Trisquel does? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU/xEOAAoJEOaXR1L5cERWy5gQAKgkNYIoZqEFOOyaOcH/HrI4 LbGpF/aVrdD7zZAdVIlAHJ7tsWI/E6gUARxVw91PRvQ1z8H/1wm1c/Oy0xqgbdRP Y7nI0oj7ZBrdTtPqIavGYeEJGW+9JsBMKz+K+FbX9gUaAXfKRq4nuYe5CAetJg5M 8F4emuWS6NJR7rSJzdiYim9qap3OdcgWMDO2l8YsZk0Y0F4sJ4glHGNtxKMBy7TL mG1joF/ipmNHeaVsNcV+ZsEcboORsgxB6XRjaMMRr3zow4VC2FC7C+G4b8TI3oHb b7gMHWoHY0dC13IOMnJ2RXX7m17U1oiuTJD1jzm8cKn8giTteGGWhQnxNahSP4qC opZYBrrSgzFb0y7+wqXd7HNtQ5dcyHjUj0vhq+ApuHPODvwynkTwa08dWRnwHVTZ pRmhO7vloQ9MurnracSjbwbg7Y0zbG5LqR6kn6bziC0osjDl49HplhpU4j0MbbUK 6dBjY5cxiLBKClmYT9mk/NpmMWvsXKIh7MgluhsnweWbRaA1igaxK7ZpUmmJvIoC ufTy9KEW+1q/moMxTVn9CGyM1e0mFMBIXFu5aa9yjS40BbM4Pxc2tMMMEwy4pX2K nSXW4D9yFOjo/2JAEUV+jDbpSdC+VtHmobGVAemIMhouo6ZPy5m2F/VYhIQlVfNM Sw04BA31FW0VQj026Mjf =Nee+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Mar 10 15:56:36 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 12:56:36 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org In-Reply-To: <54FF1115.50206@riseup.net> References: <20150310194652.ec104364051a627ee29bd9af@hacari.org> <54FF1115.50206@riseup.net> Message-ID: <877fuo3ky3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Andr? Silva writes: >> -1 to the change. >> > Could we resolve that problem using another certificate for our page > like Trisquel does? we'd need to buy two certificates: one for parabola.nu and another for *.parabola.nu i don't know the current prices but i'm expecting eff's let's encrypt in a few months :P -- http://wiki.hackcoop.com.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Mar 10 16:34:24 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?windows-1252?Q?Andr=E9_Silva?=) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 13:34:24 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org In-Reply-To: <877fuo3ky3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <20150310194652.ec104364051a627ee29bd9af@hacari.org> <54FF1115.50206@riseup.net> <877fuo3ky3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <54FF1D10.2050408@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 03/10/2015 12:56 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > we'd need to buy two certificates: one for parabola.nu and another > for *.parabola.nu > when we'll receive the first donations, it should be assigned to buy the certificates as priority though -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU/x0EAAoJEOaXR1L5cERWsbMQALwXlH7kahE7p+T8H8oMKHyP QlaFdjbsYK67KAFRaj/mvMY5TBSp1xogjMUbMhcdxoFnH0EMrZfXPpVtLASaXDW1 c/lSYbrUVVjdbmZXYQn/8UyxAXDFB/z+NQmI9151YpJoQ330orxjgcRU5lVLA0GN PwshhW6d0BaaT8M3uh63zx49/HAopRhqQxoXsjdhUizezCC26FHWhAOGtIDNGC93 8CZIVmVej/UDRig13w6r3ACKGJNBuTa6A+5BgErj00T45XcHrrgk1PBMEDPKhS1g bTPBiEw10AFaGU0P3gSFq+1IF3Kji/Xx6gGaP2O/UTIYHIo5CsjRgvdbX6frFuXW cxGgqSUQsmWrL+2Td1mQZoW4k1BVwXW6pxueM/YGzMi0bsU0e2ykTAFXsc40UyIQ lXJoSZfdnF1cn9YABrXDIZb1OvQbpms4ASwM/IAb0v+vk8MHP91KPQYxLcNXpavx 2DJ9CJWd8ZRAxHuLMip/DzUFfvNjjfAW+qJkOahcISjestZzMrmsvvrqNdHCnWq7 X3MunOH+CEZOe70r+vOMMUPO9CmgHvAAaXZr0G1s3gpHb1DwdYYwC5tI/aZXYqBM 7AOb0n9aLgdmoK1ThyscRyCGFGsPoRH2yMeCE6KbXxOhg6ZBjr6WcTWWVxODC+7r hH1zSMydy/qCALN63VyU =b1ES -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Tue Mar 10 16:38:37 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 13:38:37 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org In-Reply-To: <54FF1D10.2050408@riseup.net> References: <20150310194652.ec104364051a627ee29bd9af@hacari.org> <54FF1115.50206@riseup.net> <877fuo3ky3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FF1D10.2050408@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87vbi824fm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Andr? Silva writes: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > On 03/10/2015 12:56 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >> we'd need to buy two certificates: one for parabola.nu and another >> for *.parabola.nu >> > when we'll receive the first donations, it should be assigned to buy > the certificates as priority though i wouldn't like to pay for a 2kb file :c -- D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hellekin at gnu.org Tue Mar 10 16:59:00 2015 From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 13:59:00 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org In-Reply-To: <87vbi824fm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <20150310194652.ec104364051a627ee29bd9af@hacari.org> <54FF1115.50206@riseup.net> <877fuo3ky3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FF1D10.2050408@riseup.net> <87vbi824fm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <54FF22D4.1070404@gnu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 03/10/15 13:38, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >> On 03/10/2015 12:56 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >>> we'd need to buy two certificates: one for parabola.nu and another >>> for *.parabola.nu >>> >> when we'll receive the first donations, it should be assigned to buy >> the certificates as priority though > > i wouldn't like to pay for a 2kb file :c > *** At hackerspaces.org we decided to wait for the EFF thing. BTW which is the ticket number? == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJU/yLNXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQ0IyNkIyRTNDNzEyMTc2OUEzNEM4ODU0 ODA2QzM2M0ZDMTg5ODNEAAoJEEgGw2P8GJg9deoP/24hVgsfGvr6pQPuQNF2YQtw jcslVLT6AFxg3+7G4j2is8xrs/W9rBJERdbyWw1AW+Tk+EnKXBRh2+qv9AbLioTT 0VA7CDQ+Diw/jTowrzSBaPOr88yIfnMdRvTNqw1aUsQo6jxs2OW/exx13QZEek/I 0VZBS4Gfe4ejG9ErEu8FtfAoD9H76HrOnls6Tr7p0S2O4PAdPVApT3ymiGVcohdG n4TLpKIVRozSvtZbj8DDVI9jLUSxB+lglJROLsHqqU9jNZ95m9ucA2Mk6gwnJTZZ 0MZh6Xc6sjOzOcsP35MrqeqtXlAcPekminc6dbeJysT7Dp91Qiv+YX/tx+SgCXWB fEjYc2OKi5MRzCtYeYP3CVMPr629aNGiDcovtqCEO1xgpAuBzVesV6zTJ8GVkfHf mBxZ52DZ2X8hubRxkBAaCxb385hI1BPV452B0WebIkEcLMV3auSKcMj5ouCY+WDL oUhUHGYBpUR4UtDLViQOg5Pi28dMGh8j+T+WlJY6y8vwlXXca/NZQoe49K6zmzZH mL7VdGXUhAVcR0krnM4b2n9b450NaY7OipPB7F3ncT+pb1bgce6A0Ts+voTBLZnH B+dBMZE0OirZx5xGg3ku//PAhu6cP+PuZmmaHjmaLGSKLhPP1pzYWJHoWSWPO1Km jECW/GjB8pd84CHEt6hJ =Lbdh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From paulmckno1989 at autistici.org Tue Mar 10 18:01:09 2015 From: paulmckno1989 at autistici.org (Pablo Edgardo Cano Gifford) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 12:01:09 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org In-Reply-To: <54FF22D4.1070404@gnu.org> (hellekin@gnu.org's message of "Tue, 10 Mar 2015 13:59:00 -0300") References: <20150310194652.ec104364051a627ee29bd9af@hacari.org> <54FF1115.50206@riseup.net> <877fuo3ky3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FF1D10.2050408@riseup.net> <87vbi824fm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FF22D4.1070404@gnu.org> Message-ID: <861tkwpw9m.fsf@autistici.org> In my opinion, let's encrypt seems like the best option. Since it comes From the EFF it is highly trustable for me. hellekin writes: > On 03/10/15 13:38, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >>> On 03/10/2015 12:56 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >>>> we'd need to buy two certificates: one for parabola.nu and another >>>> for *.parabola.nu >>>> >>> when we'll receive the first donations, it should be assigned to buy >>> the certificates as priority though >> >> i wouldn't like to pay for a 2kb file :c >> > *** At hackerspaces.org we decided to wait for the EFF thing. > > BTW which is the ticket number? > > == > hk > > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -- Pablo Edgardo Cano Gifford Website: http://infinite-axes.xyz XMPP: pecg at infinite-axes.xyz * Sent from autistici.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at repo.parabola.nu Tue Mar 10 21:42:05 2015 From: nobody at repo.parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 21:42:05 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Pcr package [rfc5766-turn-server] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20150310214205.363.69086@parabola.nu> mtjm at mtjm.eu wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * rfc5766-turn-server 3.2.2.8-1 [pcr] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/i686/rfc5766-turn-server/ * rfc5766-turn-server 3.2.2.8-1 [pcr] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/pcr/x86_64/rfc5766-turn-server/ The user provided the following additional text: https://code.google.com/p/rfc5766-turn-server/wiki/newDownloadsSite?tm=2 has 3.2.5.6 https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/rfc5766-turn-server has 3.2.5.1-1 Additionally, the current binary doesn't work with current hiredis: libhiredis.so.0.10 => not found From freaj at riseup.net Fri Mar 13 08:54:58 2015 From: freaj at riseup.net (freaj) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 08:54:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] qtox-git: conflicts with packages Message-ID: <20150313085459.ADFA13F62E@berryeater.riseup.net> Hi, I'm trying to update qtox-git from PCR, but I have some problems with libremakepkg: This is on the x86_64 chroot: | ==> Installing missing dependencies... | error: target not found: openal-soft-tox And this is on the i686: | :: openal-soft-tox and openal are in conflict. Remove openal? [y/N] | error: unresolvable package conflicts detected | error: failed to prepare transaction (conflicting dependencies) | :: openal-soft-tox and openal are in conflict So... I'm stuck. I didn't have this problem when I packaged tox-git with openal-soft-tox. Also, openal-soft-tox is on the repo, it shouldn't be missing. Any ideas? -- freaj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freaj at riseup.net Fri Mar 13 09:12:12 2015 From: freaj at riseup.net (freaj) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 09:12:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] Link used by GNU.org In-Reply-To: <861tkwpw9m.fsf@autistici.org> References: <20150310194652.ec104364051a627ee29bd9af@hacari.org> <54FF1115.50206@riseup.net> <877fuo3ky3.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FF1D10.2050408@riseup.net> <87vbi824fm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <54FF22D4.1070404@gnu.org> <861tkwpw9m.fsf@autistici.org> Message-ID: <20150313091212.DB8F6427F7@berryeater.riseup.net> Hi, We should keep http://www.parabola.nu/https/ because it works everywhere and explains how to access the website using CACERT. It's probably not the most-friendly way to access a website but it's probably the most ethical? We have hundreds of SSL authorities, yes, "authorities", they made our SSLs citizen-complying. I honestly don't think it is worth the shot to pay a company to say "yes" for 100$. We might need CACERT back in our web browsers, it's better than wasting money on a single command line. -- freaj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sat Mar 14 23:07:30 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 20:07:30 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] progress with ceata + decisions to be made In-Reply-To: <87lhj8y8fy.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87385i2ivm.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87lhj8y8fy.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87wq2jrxe5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Nicol?s Reynolds writes: > > ok, summary so far: > > * changing the description to thank ceata on the gnu free distros list > needs to be confirmed with gnu webmasters. hellekin is confirming > this. but if the description change is on our hands, do we want to > change it or not? > > * so far there's consensus that we prefer inbound=outbound instead of > copyright assigments > > * also, the donations page will be clear about our relationship with > ceata and have a short summary of who they are. nothing else was said and the due date was yesterday, so i'm following this in my conversation with tiberiu :) -- D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freaj at riseup.net Mon Mar 16 13:21:31 2015 From: freaj at riseup.net (freaj) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] Cleaning repos: mips64el/pcr Message-ID: <20150316132132.7F07B42CE8@berryeater.riseup.net> Hi everybody, I'm browsing the repos in Parabola and also I was talking to Emulatorman about it. Do you plan to keep mips64el to work or not? Few packages have been updated one month ago, almost the rest is from one year ago. If no one uses it, would it be better to clean? Also, for PCR, I'd like to know if we could do something about outdated and more importantly unused programs in it? I'm sure there are a lot of programs which need updates, sure, but some of them need to be removed. For example the older package is from 2 years ago, even more. I'm willing to help on this side, just need to know who wants those packages until I do it. -- freaj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freaj at riseup.net Mon Mar 16 13:21:38 2015 From: freaj at riseup.net (freaj) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:21:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] qtox-git: conflicts with packages In-Reply-To: <20150313085459.ADFA13F62E@berryeater.riseup.net> References: <20150313085459.ADFA13F62E@berryeater.riseup.net> Message-ID: <20150316132139.9714B42CE3@berryeater.riseup.net> Solved, I had to enter in librechroot, stupid me... -- freaj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Mar 16 13:35:53 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:35:53 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Cleaning repos: mips64el/pcr In-Reply-To: <20150316132132.7F07B42CE8@berryeater.riseup.net> References: <20150316132132.7F07B42CE8@berryeater.riseup.net> Message-ID: <87h9tloyiu.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> freaj writes: > Hi everybody, I'm browsing the repos in Parabola and also I was >talking to Emulatorman about it. Do you plan to keep mips64el to work >or not? Few packages have been updated one month ago, almost the rest >is from one year ago. If no one uses it, would it be better to clean? > i think we should archive at least the [core] and [libre] repos. otherwise anyone wanting to restart the porting process would have to start from scratch. > Also, for PCR, I'd like to know if we could do something about >outdated and more importantly unused programs in it? I'm sure there are >a lot of programs which need updates, sure, but some of them need to be >removed. > >For example the older package is from 2 years ago, even more. I'm >willing to help on this side, just need to know who wants those >packages until I do it. -- freaj those are mips64el still :P -- :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freaj at riseup.net Mon Mar 16 14:05:17 2015 From: freaj at riseup.net (freaj) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:05:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] Cleaning repos: mips64el/pcr In-Reply-To: <87h9tloyiu.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <20150316132132.7F07B42CE8@berryeater.riseup.net> <87h9tloyiu.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <20150316140518.219C543197@berryeater.riseup.net> > i think we should archive at least the [core] and [libre] repos. > otherwise anyone wanting to restart the porting process would have to > start from scratch. Definetly the best way to go. What about PCR so? Even if it's mips64el could we have a folder to move all the mips64el packages for people who wants that later? Why is it discontinued? -- freaj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Mar 16 14:13:09 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:13:09 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Cleaning repos: mips64el/pcr In-Reply-To: <20150316140518.219C543197@berryeater.riseup.net> References: <20150316132132.7F07B42CE8@berryeater.riseup.net> <87h9tloyiu.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20150316140518.219C543197@berryeater.riseup.net> Message-ID: <87egopowsq.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> freaj writes: >> i think we should archive at least the [core] and [libre] repos. >> otherwise anyone wanting to restart the porting process would have to >> start from scratch. > Definetly the best way to go. What about PCR so? Even if it's mips64el > could we have a folder to move all the mips64el packages for people > who wants that later? Why is it discontinued? because my machine broke and i'm assuming everybody else's too? or they lost interest, porting is a pain in the ass :P -- :> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Mar 16 14:20:55 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:20:55 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] donations page Message-ID: <87bnjtowfs.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> the donations page would be a web page explaining why we'd like to receive donations, how are we going to collect them, our relationship with ceata foundation and maybe a log of past donations. where should we put it? the wiki would be a good place if we want to update it often, but it'll require for it to be blocked. parabolaweb can also be used but it's less dynamic since we have to modify the git source and the go deploy it at the server. we'd also need to add the link to the site, where? navbar? -- :> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freaj at riseup.net Mon Mar 16 14:42:53 2015 From: freaj at riseup.net (freaj) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:42:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] Cleaning repos: mips64el/pcr In-Reply-To: <87egopowsq.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <20150316132132.7F07B42CE8@berryeater.riseup.net> <87h9tloyiu.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20150316140518.219C543197@berryeater.riseup.net> <87egopowsq.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <20150316144253.D785840EAA@berryeater.riseup.net> > because my machine broke and i'm assuming everybody else's too? or they > lost interest, porting is a pain in the ass :P Yeah, it could be difficult but what I mean is... Who else uses mips? Are you porting it just to say "hi, it's ported, bye" or because you daily use it and need it to be up to date? I think bye. :P -- freaj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freaj at riseup.net Mon Mar 16 14:43:02 2015 From: freaj at riseup.net (freaj) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:43:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] [donations] donations page In-Reply-To: <87bnjtowfs.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87bnjtowfs.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <20150316144303.5DB7540EAA@berryeater.riseup.net> Depending of how many times you need to update the page and why, if it doesn't require it to be edited like once per week by someone who doesn't use a terminal, git and parabola.nu/donations would be okay? -- freaj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Mar 16 14:53:55 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:53:55 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] donations page In-Reply-To: <20150316144303.5DB7540EAA@berryeater.riseup.net> References: <87bnjtowfs.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20150316144303.5DB7540EAA@berryeater.riseup.net> Message-ID: <873855ouws.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> freaj writes: > Depending of how many times you need to update the page and why, if it > doesn't require it to be edited like once per week by someone who > doesn't use a terminal, git and parabola.nu/donations would be okay? so far as parabolaweb can be deployed without manual intervention server side -- http://endefensadelsl.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Mar 16 14:54:57 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:54:57 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Cleaning repos: mips64el/pcr In-Reply-To: <20150316144253.D785840EAA@berryeater.riseup.net> References: <20150316132132.7F07B42CE8@berryeater.riseup.net> <87h9tloyiu.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20150316140518.219C543197@berryeater.riseup.net> <87egopowsq.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20150316144253.D785840EAA@berryeater.riseup.net> Message-ID: <87zj7dngam.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> freaj writes: >> because my machine broke and i'm assuming everybody else's too? or they >> lost interest, porting is a pain in the ass :P > Yeah, it could be difficult but what I mean is... Who else uses mips? >Are you porting it just to say "hi, it's ported, bye" or because you >daily use it and need it to be up to date? I think bye. :P -- freaj i used it daily up until my lemote died... -- http://endefensadelsl.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hellekin at gnu.org Mon Mar 16 15:06:29 2015 From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:06:29 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] donations page In-Reply-To: <873855ouws.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <87bnjtowfs.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20150316144303.5DB7540EAA@berryeater.riseup.net> <873855ouws.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <5506F175.3090106@gnu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 03/16/15 11:53, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > > so far as parabolaweb can be deployed without manual intervention server > side > *** It should be kept that way. You should also allow donors to choose whether they want to appear on the website or not. Many don't need the publicity and are happy with the donation. A donation button should be well visible in any case. == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJVBvFtXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQ0IyNkIyRTNDNzEyMTc2OUEzNEM4ODU0 ODA2QzM2M0ZDMTg5ODNEAAoJEEgGw2P8GJg9sGQP/j83zp9rIUA8dT0tYS4wxfGk +HRf/ovqdKuPLvrmSjVv3fG5X7q2rL4BXXTKGsbZMkJdnRk2+tZpje35x37xKdO3 9ia+KmZphKjY37k3e5I6W/5zpZ31FIdt1ioUx7aWNA7SZpFldFi1VoonJjV4HRiF XFoUNTPst4A60oxgeyWRgO5X0OaxREq67LBXJfSsVY2FX3TON/tvzwxGXOUe3X09 X+scCFrtFRD6myl0mqjmzTQlKbCs9KWSnd4Oc/XMJsbAwdGLsNIZWEbekh+g9Jk7 g3Qv0RSqjfJKvHabQRwyMWv9tOUvKVfgSiML79OBESmfSv9vI/yzu2MWaD8PJIWS aeLm5fBJ8LVVTPFklboei9adLvF9plDmLHrhnx193+5G6d8g1IQMAjSOPU4n+M/e 4N34dOUnqIQTACHt99J6jMPjp+v4u5jFoM9unXiNwbgmvwGyHtO8xMCWWhCDNEZu cQ82nUXJ4gY5q2rvXdWnwUHQrSyaaE3r0obEGM76DKprMUov5sE4xb5HNvApNZNp RToHLI623VmPmI2tzJGUu+5jR38qps5V2QbIwh/JfAaZOKgHY7vr0lAfOrMc2TyA 3eudmvJZTVTM1uNJNZhNqXmQrlWdHXKErCnmaK9Jx/cKP6tgPPNUzWpryMVBAj4l Bf6YLe4GIYizdpOVTbqK =HkJJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hahj87 at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 19:37:04 2015 From: hahj87 at gmail.com (Joshua Haase) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:37:04 -0600 Subject: [Dev] Cleaning repos: mips64el/pcr In-Reply-To: <87zj7dngam.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <20150316132132.7F07B42CE8@berryeater.riseup.net> <87h9tloyiu.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20150316140518.219C543197@berryeater.riseup.net> <87egopowsq.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20150316144253.D785840EAA@berryeater.riseup.net> <87zj7dngam.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <874mpkraxr.fsf@gmail.com> I also used it until my machine got stolen :'( Nicol?s Reynolds writes: > freaj writes: > >>> because my machine broke and i'm assuming everybody else's too? or they >>> lost interest, porting is a pain in the ass :P >> Yeah, it could be difficult but what I mean is... Who else uses mips? >>Are you porting it just to say "hi, it's ported, bye" or because you >>daily use it and need it to be up to date? I think bye. :P -- freaj > > i used it daily up until my lemote died... > > -- > http://endefensadelsl.org > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev From emulatorman at riseup.net Tue Mar 17 09:32:02 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIFNpbHZh?=) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 06:32:02 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [donations] donations page In-Reply-To: <5506F175.3090106@gnu.org> References: <87bnjtowfs.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <20150316144303.5DB7540EAA@berryeater.riseup.net> <873855ouws.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <5506F175.3090106@gnu.org> Message-ID: <5507F492.3000008@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 03/16/2015 12:06 PM, hellekin wrote: > On 03/16/15 11:53, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > >> so far as parabolaweb can be deployed without manual intervention >> server side > > *** It should be kept that way. You should also allow donors to > choose whether they want to appear on the website or not. Many > don't need the publicity and are happy with the donation. > > A donation button should be well visible in any case. > +1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVB/SHAAoJEOaXR1L5cERWNWMQAKVSNjdeo8vcqsamRwXeWT3k m8I5cYKCRs8uOn0eEnCpYmrTGpwBpW8XVjutD6Gi9n6O9QQVvFBSAu/q1wmhzHlE 8bSd7c61SbolLYJXA4CISZJ8LMYWYuxcQB4VXq7l+Wej0fxLgRXPYlGHDAxNxjIQ Ypx3o/0ARTo+kJB5Y6tHTll/6AXEJiRNcU3MlLSFM8fWOF3FDRxebhUacnvILHCw uhbUeXfm0x4PqPxO87uXBeCS+19luA4ijukgDQ+a/rzvyWGvwMZtHN3/ubaQ7sjD wtOzXrhWnXJpT5bsKZ5+kjcm1yxwf1SsRKZhUt8rSSoJLnWueU7d97fd3zbYAMhA tacCenWFumfAauMqsWVgLT38Pkc/uteZWttquudacHCgE6jaDZXN2fpVI9tfrDov fX7gIzduf61c52kYmcYDZOi2wITiSrc+BAiVpqK4iGbZCwSC/XMQlKA8NfbRjBvW F9nOC0+0N4hwF2F400U2PEqMGFp7us+Wol8Yua9sLlALEs//Ps4sTy/tx7WPDJMh GDm7ia42HUKd7U5HHXdgJv8OaBrH7GCVDdwB0x/t50zHXDsseymGrwK86vAzznnf ox+jhE7WirbFX49omBaB28GdpUi71NM46ScvftgWHLDs3w98JSAsO+znUF3wkWqb c92NI5sI501+MFCq3tw6 =7X4w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody at repo.parabola.nu Wed Mar 18 13:08:31 2015 From: nobody at repo.parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:08:31 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Kernels package [xen] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20150318130831.356.19562@parabola.nu> petabyteboy at gmail.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: The user provided the following additional text: New version is out From freaj at riseup.net Thu Mar 19 16:39:15 2015 From: freaj at riseup.net (freaj) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:39:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] [proposal] Having a pacman-based distro, stable. Message-ID: <20150319163916.CE7CC42998@berryeater.riseup.net> Hi, We currently have Parabola, which is: - a Free distro, entirely free - Based on pacman - Based on ArchLinux (repos ordering, design, softwares) - Unstable/breakable - Dependent So what it means is as follows: Parabola is Arch, but with exclusively free softwares. I know there is a lot of work behind it to make it work as it is right at the moment, but this is basically the point. When Archlinux breaks somewhere (ncmpcpp for example, we've all had something broken in Parabola, at least once?), it will break on Parabola. Of course, we all know for a fact here that Parabola is not a stable distro and it's not its aim/purpose. If we want a stable distro, we can move to trisquel? Hm. I have nothing against trisquel, but I have nothing in favor of trisquel either, it's based on ubuntu, not a rolling release, dpkg, etc. I would like to propose a stable Parabola. I know it sounds easier said than done but, I'd like to. - A Free distro, entierly free - Based on pacman - Stable (1) - Customizable for us / Independent (2) 1)We will still be a rolling release distro but we will make sure packages don't break on updates. 2) We can for example have many service files on daemon-packages (like httpd) for many init softwares, such as systemd, or gnudmd in the packages, to have a better dynamism on this part. Also, systemd is Linux-kernel only, maybe on the future we will plan to move on HURD! And I'm not idealistic. What we currently have to make it work: - Hope (that's for me) - A good team of people What we need to currently have make it work (as far as Emulatorman explained): - People, we need people - Ressources -> a build machine, or more, because everything will be packaged. As I understood there is already an autobuilder? Did I leave out anything? The architecture is already running (for example with libre / pcr / etc) What do you think about that? Is it a good idea? Bad? Thanks for reading! -- freaj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nicolasfloquet59 at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 17:12:25 2015 From: nicolasfloquet59 at gmail.com (Nicolas Floquet) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 18:12:25 +0100 Subject: [Dev] [proposal] Having a pacman-based distro, stable. In-Reply-To: <20150319163916.CE7CC42998@berryeater.riseup.net> (freaj@riseup.net's message of "Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:39:15 +0000 (UTC)") References: <20150319163916.CE7CC42998@berryeater.riseup.net> Message-ID: <87oanox66e.fsf@gmail.com> freaj writes: > What do you think about that? Is it a good idea? Bad? Good. -- Nicolas Floquet | www.pharmanerd.flqt.fr | www.logibaba.flqt.fr | www.librehealthcare.org | 5, impasse du bois 61450 La Ferri?re-aux-?tangs, Normandie, France | 06 32 93 03 51 | Mail r?dig? et sign? avec des logiciels libres (GNU/Linux, Emacs et GPG) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Thu Mar 19 17:12:49 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 14:12:49 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [proposal] Having a pacman-based distro, stable. In-Reply-To: <20150319163916.CE7CC42998@berryeater.riseup.net> References: <20150319163916.CE7CC42998@berryeater.riseup.net> Message-ID: <874mpgewry.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> freaj writes: > Hi, > > We currently have Parabola, which is: > - a Free distro, entirely free > - Based on pacman > - Based on ArchLinux (repos ordering, design, softwares) > - Unstable/breakable > - Dependent it's been a while since something broke for me in a way that's unusable :P > So what it means is as follows: Parabola is Arch, but with exclusively >free softwares. I know there is a lot of work behind it to make it work >as it is right at the moment, but this is basically the point. When >Archlinux breaks somewhere (ncmpcpp for example, we've all had >something broken in Parabola, at least once?), it will break on >Parabola. Of course, we all know for a fact here that Parabola is not a >stable distro and it's not its aim/purpose. If we want a stable distro, >we can move to trisquel? Hm. I have nothing against trisquel, but I >have nothing in favor of trisquel either, it's based on ubuntu, not a >rolling release, dpkg, etc. > > I would like to propose a stable Parabola. I know it sounds easier said than done but, I'd like to. > - A Free distro, entierly free > - Based on pacman > - Stable (1) > - Customizable for us / Independent (2) > > 1)We will still be a rolling release distro but we will make sure packages don't break on updates. i think there're some makepkg patches laying around that make dependencies hard. so if you build inkscape with imagemagick as dependency, it'll require that specific version of imagemagick and won't let you upgrade to another. i recall having read about this on arch-dev-public and the idea was discarded. i also think lukeshu or mtjm were doing some work in this line. > 2) We can for example have many service files on daemon-packages (like > httpd) for many init softwares, such as systemd, or gnudmd in the > packages, to have a better dynamism on this part. Also, systemd is > Linux-kernel only, maybe on the future we will plan to move on HURD! > And I'm not idealistic. is that stable? :P > What we currently have to make it work: > - Hope (that's for me) > - A good team of people > > What we need to currently have make it work (as far as Emulatorman explained): > - People, we need people > - Ressources -> a build machine, or more, because everything will be packaged. As I understood there is already an autobuilder? > > Did I leave out anything? The architecture is already running (for example with libre / pcr / etc) another idea: make repos date dependent, like arch rollback machine, so when i need a single package i don't have to upgrade the whole system because dependencies change and other packages can break. and, if you have an extremely outdated system you have an upgrade path instead of dependency cycles just because a pacman system is unable to bootstrap itself. > What do you think about that? Is it a good idea? Bad? > > Thanks for reading! i don't think i'll be able to contribute but i can save you some pain because of mips64el :) -- }(:= -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freaj at riseup.net Fri Mar 20 09:05:02 2015 From: freaj at riseup.net (freaj) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:05:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Dev] [proposal] Having a pacman-based distro, stable. In-Reply-To: <874mpgewry.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <20150319163916.CE7CC42998@berryeater.riseup.net> <874mpgewry.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <20150320090503.2D00A40EAF@berryeater.riseup.net> > another idea: make repos date dependent, like arch rollback machine, so > when i need a single package i don't have to upgrade the whole system > because dependencies change and other packages can break. > > and, if you have an extremely outdated system you have an upgrade path > instead of dependency cycles just because a pacman system is unable to > bootstrap itself. You just put the problem of stable packages away by doing this. What if we change upstream from arch to manjaro? >>"Although Manjaro is one-hundred percent Arch Linux compatible --being based on Arch Linux itself-- it is not possible to access their official repositories for use in Manjaro. Instead, Manjaro uses its own repositories in order to ensure that any software packages that are accessible, such as system updates and applications, have been fully tested and are stable before release." -- freaj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alfplayer at mailoo.org Fri Mar 20 23:06:40 2015 From: alfplayer at mailoo.org (Esteban Carnevale) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:06:40 -0300 Subject: [Dev] [proposal] Having a pacman-based distro, stable. In-Reply-To: <874mpgewry.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <20150319163916.CE7CC42998@berryeater.riseup.net> <874mpgewry.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <20150320200640.d42674def7b452a05c1320b9@mailoo.org> Snapshots like the "rollback machine" are available in http://alfplayer.com/. Mirrors on my servers and some other systems are set to old snapshots to avoid breaking them. I can keep about 5 months (now there are 3), but I have to purge older snapshots when disk usage is too high. Example to update the configured snapshot: new_date="$(date -d yesterday +%Y.%m.%d)" base_url="http://alfplayer.com/parabola" config_file can be set to pacman.conf or mirrorlist sed -i 's|\ \(Include|Server\) = .*|\ Server = '"$base_url"-"$new_date"'/$repo/os/$arch|'\ "$config_file" -- Esteban Carnevale From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sun Mar 22 11:56:14 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 08:56:14 -0300 Subject: [Dev] x86_64 packages Message-ID: <877fu98cv5.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> can someone build for x86_64 * strongswan * git-annex-static * faircoin thanks! -- }(:= -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sun Mar 22 12:00:44 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 09:00:44 -0300 Subject: [Dev] abslibre.git Message-ID: <874mpd8cnn.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> i'm thinking if the abslibre.git log wouldn't be cleaner if instead of merging like now, we rebase to origin/master before pushing. instead of this: git commit PKGBUILD -m "foo: upgrade" git pull origin master git push origin master # merge this: git commit PKGBUILD -m "foo: upgrade" git fetch origin git rebase origin/master this way there's no merge just a continuum of package upgrades :) -- }(:= -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at repo.parabola.nu Sun Mar 22 19:06:32 2015 From: nobody at repo.parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 19:06:32 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [iceweasel] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20150322190632.356.66034@parabola.nu> pejakm at autistici.org wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * iceweasel 1:36.0.1.deb2-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel/ * iceweasel 1:36.0.1.deb2-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel/ * iceweasel-debug 1:36.0.1.deb2-1 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/iceweasel-debug/ * iceweasel-debug 1:36.0.1.deb2-1 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/iceweasel-debug/ The user provided the following additional text: https://packages.debian.org/experimental/iceweasel From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Mon Mar 23 03:30:36 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 00:30:36 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Fwd: [GNU-linux-libre] libXfont Message-ID: <87iods75lv.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> -- :O -------------------- Start of forwarded message -------------------- DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=N1-0105; d=Safe-mail.net; b=sPslPh0JS3rJMs72b66fxmk/OuRZeUl8lgnonHHIFt6SRgMVjJaSl669ala3YIAN 9DHNmBxwnTeugCwQ6gITYTqczwKlABWTR5w8bBDeKoQIxe+0pGhcN1+BiizbFLoX RMXhFQLE38/vopANdgBTal6n3k2AE/RI0rDfrW8tBAw=; Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:16:13 -0400 From: "israel shahak" To: gnu-linux-libre at nongnu.org Subject: [GNU-linux-libre] libXfont At the bottom of the COPYING file in libXfont, it says the following: "Copyright (c) 1999 The XFree86 Project Inc. All Rights Reserved. The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE OPEN GROUP BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE. Except as contained in this notice, the name of The XFree86 Project Inc. shall not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other dealings in this Software without prior written authorization from The XFree86 Project Inc.." The license doesn't give any explicit permission to use, modify, etc. However, I can't find any file with that license in libXfont, so it might be outdated. Above that is another unclear statement: "/* lib/font/fontfile/gunzip.c written by Mark Eichin September 1996. intended for inclusion in X11 public releases. */" That is included in src/fontfile/gunzip.c. xproto has the same unclear license as the first one, but actually does have it in one of it's files, Xdefs.h. -------------------- End of forwarded message -------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nobody at repo.parabola.nu Tue Mar 24 16:01:19 2015 From: nobody at repo.parabola.nu (Parabola Website Notification) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:01:19 -0000 Subject: [Dev] Orphan Libre package [icedove-enigmail] marked out-of-date Message-ID: <20150324160119.350.43455@parabola.nu> taro-k at movasense.com wants to notify you that the following packages may be out-of-date: * icedove-enigmail 1.7.2-2 [libre] (i686): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/i686/icedove-enigmail/ * icedove-enigmail 1.7.2-2 [libre] (x86_64): https://parabolagnulinux.org/packages/libre/x86_64/icedove-enigmail/ The user provided the following additional text: 03/23/2015 Enigmail v1.8.1 has been released. https://www.enigmail.net/news/index.php#v181 From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Thu Mar 26 20:40:11 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:40:11 -0300 Subject: [Dev] jabber is back Message-ID: <877fu31oic.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> jabber service @parabola.nu is back from old backup. if you don't remember your password let me know and i'll recover it for you. i wanted to configure it with dovecot auth so any new system user has a jabber account, but the mod_auth_dovecot module[0] doesn't have a license. i wrote an email to the developers to clarify :( [0]: https://prosody-modules.googlecode.com/hg/mod_auth_dovecot/auth_dovecot/ -- .o?) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 26 21:33:06 2015 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:33:06 -0400 Subject: [Dev] abslibre.git In-Reply-To: <874mpd8cnn.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <874mpd8cnn.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87iodnmokt.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 08:00:44 -0400, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > [1 ] > [1.1 ] > > i'm thinking if the abslibre.git log wouldn't be cleaner if instead of > merging like now, we rebase to origin/master before pushing. > > instead of this: > > git commit PKGBUILD -m "foo: upgrade" > git pull origin master > git push origin master # merge > > this: > > git commit PKGBUILD -m "foo: upgrade" > git fetch origin > git rebase origin/master > Or git pull --rebase origin master -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Thu Mar 26 22:43:27 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 19:43:27 -0300 Subject: [Dev] abslibre.git In-Reply-To: <87iodnmokt.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> References: <874mpd8cnn.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87iodnmokt.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <871tkb1isw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Luke Shumaker writes: > On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 08:00:44 -0400, > Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >> [1 ] >> [1.1 ] >> >> i'm thinking if the abslibre.git log wouldn't be cleaner if instead of >> merging like now, we rebase to origin/master before pushing. >> >> instead of this: >> >> git commit PKGBUILD -m "foo: upgrade" >> git pull origin master >> git push origin master # merge >> >> this: >> >> git commit PKGBUILD -m "foo: upgrade" >> git fetch origin >> git rebase origin/master >> > > Or > > git pull --rebase origin master yes! i discovered this one after sending the email but forgot to add. anything against rebasing before pushing? -- D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Fri Mar 27 17:03:27 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 14:03:27 -0300 Subject: [Dev] jabber is back In-Reply-To: <877fu31oic.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <877fu31oic.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87619mz82o.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Nicol?s Reynolds writes: > jabber service @parabola.nu is back from old backup. if you don't > remember your password let me know and i'll recover it for you. > > i wanted to configure it with dovecot auth so any new system user has a > jabber account, but the mod_auth_dovecot module[0] doesn't have a > license. i wrote an email to the developers to clarify :( > > > [0]: https://prosody-modules.googlecode.com/hg/mod_auth_dovecot/auth_dovecot/ ok so the license is mit, so i'm configuring parabola "single sign on" in an hour or so :P have you tested the jabber service? -- P) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From emulatorman at riseup.net Fri Mar 27 18:03:29 2015 From: emulatorman at riseup.net (=?windows-1252?Q?Andr=E9_Silva?=) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 15:03:29 -0300 Subject: [Dev] jabber is back In-Reply-To: <87619mz82o.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <877fu31oic.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87619mz82o.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <55159B71.1040908@riseup.net> On 03/27/2015 02:03 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > Nicol?s Reynolds writes: > >> jabber service @parabola.nu is back from old backup. if you don't >> remember your password let me know and i'll recover it for you. >> >> i wanted to configure it with dovecot auth so any new system user has a >> jabber account, but the mod_auth_dovecot module[0] doesn't have a >> license. i wrote an email to the developers to clarify :( >> >> >> [0]: https://prosody-modules.googlecode.com/hg/mod_auth_dovecot/auth_dovecot/ > > ok so the license is mit, so i'm configuring parabola "single sign on" > in an hour or so :P > > have you tested the jabber service? > in my case, it works well here! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Fri Mar 27 18:27:51 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 15:27:51 -0300 Subject: [Dev] jabber is back In-Reply-To: <55159B71.1040908@riseup.net> References: <877fu31oic.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87619mz82o.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <55159B71.1040908@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87384qz460.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Andr? Silva writes: > On 03/27/2015 02:03 PM, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: >> Nicol?s Reynolds writes: >> >>> jabber service @parabola.nu is back from old backup. if you don't >>> remember your password let me know and i'll recover it for you. >>> >>> i wanted to configure it with dovecot auth so any new system user has a >>> jabber account, but the mod_auth_dovecot module[0] doesn't have a >>> license. i wrote an email to the developers to clarify :( >>> >>> >>> [0]: https://prosody-modules.googlecode.com/hg/mod_auth_dovecot/auth_dovecot/ >> >> ok so the license is mit, so i'm configuring parabola "single sign on" >> in an hour or so :P >> >> have you tested the jabber service? >> > in my case, it works well here! just another thing, prosody 0.9 allows to perform authenticated server to server communications, which has these features: * disables parabola.nu to gmail.com chats, which were insecure * enables certificate verification, so jabber services using self-signed certificates get disabled should we enable this? it's more secure but i'm not too happy about leaving out self-signed services. -- http://partidopirata.com.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From encycl at parlementum.red Fri Mar 27 18:35:33 2015 From: encycl at parlementum.red (Charles Roth MPC) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 11:35:33 -0700 Subject: [Dev] jabber is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43F7FFF4-2C84-4053-A7F3-51DEABD9F62E@parlementum.red> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 You can blacklist gmail without blocking all self signed certs for other servers. Besides, since hangouts Google doesn't allow external jabber connections so the issue is moot. - -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: APG v1.1.1 iQJLBAEBCgA1BQJVFaL0LhxDaGFybGVzIEUgUm90aCAoYnVzaW5lc3MgZW1haWwp IDxjZXJAYTJjMy5jbz4ACgkQfRnRr90xK76/YRAAjpxzJkobCm+LBddnuhEm2V4+ n8q6dRugPZpMEEQIqGjkGw/Fkg1Y6Vp1FdcYjh7wGbv7OMhEe5UbCmLoSQrIMLgJ sLNE233J58lQ8kx8bzQC91B34PSdbkDQzLASXavLRaYHfwt6HAg75S6KdP2O3c8B 40rH+tb0VXqVzo+Lu5HwmGQ/j7y5+ZKPsWPj//ZRETuB26NLXDsQJ229KozYkL/c 97QkAEumRnjAxO+fYrZGgqd8hxK908l71etT0Tky/huiT5lINW6ECzws+NQaAtD+ 0dO0hd/Yhy1JmPn372NSkuC4SRfOkWkxJEwo20ZfDQheXgdNehgrvmjw0gMMm+AT 2iYJJn4TmtS8HDXcVUl6U+d0kiwPsSHXRpIwgCXOy0RO/Eh/UTYHRAMhJIgGy82h UTUnaRsTucjjKDzgQ3QCr7YYWqgdfp9Pmh2Eljteea8jkoy070hTW0Fam6WWO79T u+d15y8WdWx/LIcnaA1zCTKE2GOQNmUHGG7cVa0n3oCHq3KaQkCcL+srNuKJH/GF gyrOB6RhWBJnjC4izBpE9gxIeEIZAcAjtWKxrr3xLR9j1fJNuP1FPVn7IfkXfUC+ 4GgfOtH5VB+N2ZxVtWVjTHWc/CEOdS7BmnraPaJ44fF2eL42MxYEP2dDzXGHY8GJ MBalbkW4qDIp64Sl4Ck= =4IU+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Fri Mar 27 19:09:56 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 16:09:56 -0300 Subject: [Dev] jabber is back In-Reply-To: <43F7FFF4-2C84-4053-A7F3-51DEABD9F62E@parlementum.red> References: <43F7FFF4-2C84-4053-A7F3-51DEABD9F62E@parlementum.red> Message-ID: <87r3saxnnf.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Charles Roth MPC writes: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > You can blacklist gmail without blocking all self signed certs for other servers. ok i'll do that > Besides, since hangouts Google doesn't allow external jabber > connections so the issue is moot. i read about this but i haven't noticed it with my contacts -- http://partidopirata.com.ar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 27 19:48:08 2015 From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke Shumaker) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 15:48:08 -0400 Subject: [Dev] abslibre.git In-Reply-To: <871tkb1isw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> References: <874mpd8cnn.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> <87iodnmokt.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> <871tkb1isw.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87a8yy1atj.wl-lukeshu@sbcglobal.net> On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 18:43:27 -0400, Nicol?s Reynolds wrote: > > [1 ] > [1.1 ] > Luke Shumaker writes: > > Or > > > > git pull --rebase origin master > > yes! i discovered this one after sending the email but forgot to add. > anything against rebasing before pushing? Nothing against it. I've always inconsistantly rebased on abslibre. I think generally I'd rebase normally, but merge if the changes happened between me running `libremakepkg` and pushing the changes. But mostly just whatever I feel like at the time :P -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sat Mar 28 14:55:54 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 11:55:54 -0300 Subject: [Dev] =?utf-8?b?RndkOiDCv1F1w6kgZGlzdHJpYnVjacOzbiBHTlUvTGludXgg?= =?utf-8?q?me_instalo=3F?= Message-ID: <87wq21uq6d.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> we're mentioned last :P -- :D -------------------- Start of forwarded message -------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:11:16 -0300 From: To: Subject: ?Qu? distribuci?n GNU/Linux me instalo? -------------- next part -------------- ?Qu? distribuci?n GNU/Linux me instalo? ======================================= http://pillku.org/article/que-distribucion-gnulinux-me-instalo/ > **Algunas aclaraciones previas para no iniciados:** > Hay algunas distribuciones, como por ejemplo Debian, de las que > derivan otras muchas. Ubuntu, un ejemplo, deriva de Debian. Pero a su > vez, hay otras que derivan de Ubuntu, como Linux Mint. Para seguir > esta especie de ??rbol gene?logico? de las distribuciones libres te > recomendamos que revises el [art?culo de > Wikipedia](http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Distribuciones_Linux "Link"). **PARA QUIENES SE INICIAN** Si est?s en ese grupo, din duda deber?as elegir alguna de estas. Son sencillas de instalar, intuitivas en su manejo. Si vienes de sistemas operativos privativos, no te costar? nada usarla. Adem?s, muchas de estas distribuciones comparten el mimos entornos de escritorio, por lo que a veces notar?s la diferencia de usar una u otra. **Ubuntu**: Acusada de tener una gran empresa detr?s, [Canonical](http://www.canonical.com/ "Link"), y de incluir algunas librer?a no totalmente libres no se puede dejar de reconocer el m?rito de esta distribuci?n. Han logrado acercar de forma sencilla los SO operativos libres a las computadoras de usuarios y usuarias ?comunes?, es decir, sin conocimientos avanzados en inform?tica. Como reza su eslogan ?Linux para humanos?. Y si tu equipo tiene poca capacidad siempre puedes usar la versi?n liviana: **[Lubuntu](http://lubuntu.net/ "Link")**. Y si te dedicas a la educaci?n te recomendamos: **[Edubuntu](http://www.edubuntu.org/ "Link")**, para escuelas y profesores. **Linux Mint**: Como ya dijimos deriva de Ubuntu (tambi?n hay una versi?n que deriva directamente desde Debian), toma la sencillez de esta distribuci?n e incluso la mejora. **Debian**: [https://www.debian.org/](https://www.debian.org/index.es.html "Link") Siempre puedes irte por la ?versi?n original? de la que derivan las dos iniciales, pero si te inicias en esto del software libre, mejor iniciarte por alguna de las dos anteriores y luego pasarte si quieres a Debian. > Algunos pa?ses han desarrollado versiones propias para sus > instituciones o escuelas como > [Canaima](http://canaima.softwarelibre.gob.ve/ "Link") en Venezuela o > [Huayra](http://huayra.conectarigualdad.gob.ar/ "Link") en Argentina. > > [Fedora](https://getfedora.org/es/ "Link"), > [Gentoo](https://www.gentoo.org/ "Link") y [Open > Suse](https://www.opensuse.org/es/ "Link") son otras opciones que te > pueden interesa y est?n entre las populares. No derivan de Debian y no > encontrar?s comunidades tan grandes en castellano, pero igual son > sencillos de instalar y manejar. **PARA LAS RADIOS Y MEDIOS COMUNITARIOS** Hasta hace un par de a?os no exist?an versiones dirigidas especialmente para este grupo, pero ahora contamos con dos, ambas con una s?lida comunidad de apoyo: **GNU Eter TICs (GET)**: Desarrollada en Argentina por Javier Obreg?n presume de ser 100% latinoamericana y libre. Deriva de Debian y recoge todos los programas necesarios para liberar tu radio: editores (Audacity, Ardour), automatizadores (Rivendell, Radit y Guarango), conversores, reproductores, programas para realizar streaming,... **Shamatari**: [http://medioslibres.org.ve](http://medioslibres.org.ve/index.php/2-uncategorised/5-beta-2-publica "Link") De reciente presentaci?n, desarrollada en Venezuela por el Colectivo [Medios Libres](http://medioslibres.org.ve/ "Link"). A diferencia de GET esta distribuci?n va dirigida no s?lo para radios, sino para medios alternativos por lo que integra tambi?n varias herramientas de dise?o y edici?n de video. **PARA FAN?TICAS Y ENTUSIASTAS DEL AUDIO Y LO MULTIMEDIA** Si piensas editar audios y videos, hacer m?sica electr?nica o dise?ar web, de seguro deber?s instalarte alguna de estas: **Ubuntu Studio**: Viene a ser un Ubuntu ?tuneado? con las herramientas necesarias para el trabajo multimedia. Completar y estable. **AV Multimedia**: Aunque el desarrollador principal amenaz? con dejar el proyecto hace un par de a?os, de momento sigue con vida. Deriva directamente desde Debian y es complet?sima, incluyendo much?simos plugins de audio y aplicaciones multimedia. **Musix GNU+Linux**: Se autodefine como un ?sistema operativo multimedia 100% libre destinado a m?sicos, t?cnicos sonidistas, djs, cineastas, dise?adores gr?ficos, y usuarios en general?. Si una comunidad tan amplia como los anteriores, es tambi?n una buena opci?n. **PARA ?GEEKS?** Nos referimos en este apartado a distribuciones que requieren un nivel avanzado de conocimientos para instalar y ser manejadas: **Arch Linux**: Simple y elegante, as? se define esta distribuci?n, una de las preferidas entre los usuarios y usuarias avanzados. Si herramientas de instalaci?n o configuraci?n avanzada hay que hacer todo ?a mano? por terminal. **Slackware**: Puede presumir de ser una de las distro m?s antiguas, pero al igual que Arch Linux no es para principiantes. **PARA QUIENES SE PREOCUPAN POR LA SEGURIDAD TOTAL** Despu?s de lo que demostr? Snowden con tantas evidencias es importante tomarse en serio el tema de la seguridad. Algunos sistemas operativos est?n dise?ados especialmente con este fin. **Tails**: (The Amnesic Incognito Live System) Para aquellos que quieren trabajar con total anonimato y privacidad. Deriva de Debian y est? protegido por TOR. Puedes llevarlo en un flash-USB y ?levantarlo? desde ah? cuando necesites navegar en una computadora p?blica o prestada. **PARA QUIENES BUSCAN LIBERTAD AL 100%** Estas son algunas de las distribuciones totalmente libres [reconocidas por la Free Software Foundation](https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.es.html "Link"). Funcionan perfectamente, pero es posible que al no integrar algunos controladores privativos alg?n hardware o aplicaci?n no ande correctamente. **Trisquel**: Deriva de Ubuntu, pero sin componentes privativos ya que incorpora el kernel linux-libre. est? ?destinada a las peque?as empresas, usuarios dom?sticos y centros educativos?. **Parabola GNU/Linux-libre**: Similar a la anterior, pero deriva de Arch Linux sacando todo lo privativo que tiene esta distribuci?n. *De las comentadas anteriormente, [Musix GNU+Linux](https://musixdistro.wordpress.com/ "Link") tambi?n est? en la lista de distros completamente libres.* **?Con cu?l te quedas? ?Cu?l te gusta? ?Por que no nos lo cuentas?** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------------- End of forwarded message -------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fauno at endefensadelsl.org Sun Mar 29 15:37:12 2015 From: fauno at endefensadelsl.org (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:37:12 -0300 Subject: [Dev] Fwd: [arch-dev-public] Dropping vi and adding vim-minimal to the installation image Message-ID: <87fv8nu85z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> fyi -- http://vqfe4xmhxzi7w2uv.onion -------------------- Start of forwarded message -------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 18:15:35 +0300 From: Evangelos Foutras To: Public mailing list for Arch Linux development Subject: [arch-dev-public] Dropping vi and adding vim-minimal to the installation image Cc: arch-releng at archlinux.org This was discussed about two years ago but no action was taken. The proposal is simple: - Drop the vi package from the repos - Add vim-minimal to the installation image This seems like a good idea because the vi editor we ship is about 10 years old and it has never behaved correctly for me. It was brought up that some applications hardcode vi as their fallback editor, but I think it should be up to the user to configure proper EDITOR or VISUAL environment variables. During installation, none of these programs needs to launch an editor (perhaps with the exception of visudo which I can configure to search for vim). [1] I did a test ISO build replacing vi with vim-minimal and the image size increased by about 15 MiB. If there are no objections until mid-April, I suggest we implement this in the May snapshot. [1] https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2013-January/024357.html -------------------- End of forwarded message -------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aurelien at hackers.camp Sun Mar 29 15:39:42 2015 From: aurelien at hackers.camp (=?utf-8?Q?Aur=C3=A9lien_DESBRI=C3=88RES?=) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 17:39:42 +0200 Subject: [Dev] Fwd: [arch-dev-public] Dropping vi and adding vim-minimal to the installation image In-Reply-To: <87fv8nu85z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Nicol=C3=A1?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= Reynolds"'s message of "Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:37:12 -0300") References: <87fv8nu85z.fsf@endefensadelsl.org> Message-ID: <87mw2vyfr5.fsf@unicorn.home> Nicol?s Reynolds writes: > fyi Why not emacs-nox :p -- Aurelien Desbrieres GitBull.org - Community coding -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: