From fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar  Mon Sep  3 16:34:07 2012
From: fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 13:34:07 -0300
Subject: [Dev] parabolagnulinux.org is back!
Message-ID: <87oblnjcao.fsf@kiwwwi.com.ar>

and not broken! after noticing the server was down i took a time to
upgrade it (it was really old) and now it's back

please check all services are running correctly.

the only thing left is to configure the network correctly, it seems the
network config isn't correct and the host admin has to configure it
manually everytime it reboots.

i've put this on labs[0]


[0]: https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/190
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From fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar  Fri Sep  7 16:41:51 2012
From: fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:41:51 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Fsf-Debian] Comparison with Parabola
In-Reply-To: <CAMej=27q5j02HBMby-MzTqGNyx2st7Mbsz_=siEZ96mwZxL4jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMej=27NDMjOm1MKLQPiJXOKJV2RBchpe_yLwnfjOiujy5D+jw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87ehnn12f1.fsf@mtjm.eu> <878vdux9c8.wl%lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>
 <CAMej=27q5j02HBMby-MzTqGNyx2st7Mbsz_=siEZ96mwZxL4jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87d31xdbu8.fsf@kiwwwi.com.ar>

Ramana Kumar <ramana at member.fsf.org> writes:

> OK It appears I misunderstood Parabola somehow. Thanks for the replies! :)
> One remaining question I have there is: if everything in Parabola
> repositories is free, then what is the point of the your-freedom
> package?

It conflicts with anything non-free you may have installed on your
system, it's helpful if you migrate from an Arch system or if we find a
package is non-free later: the package manager lets you know with a "X
conflicts with your-freedom, remove X?".

Otherwise if you are going to install an unfree package it makes you
feel guilty ("remove your-freedom?") :P

your-freedom is not required to run Parabola, it won't break your system
to not have it or replace it with nonfree packages if you want to.


Excuse the late reply, this emails was stopped by mailman.
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From quiliro at congresolibre.org  Fri Sep  7 16:55:32 2012
From: quiliro at congresolibre.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Quiliro_Ord=F3=F1ez?=)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 11:55:32 -0500
Subject: [Dev] design for parabola
In-Reply-To: <20120613140549.266320@gmx.net>
References: <20120613140549.266320@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <504A2704.8030809@congresolibre.org>

El 13/06/12 09:05, neolythik at gmx.de escribi?:
> i wish you a good day ;
> i'm from germany and don't speak english good ,
> but i have just make a very simple and elegant design ,
> i think , it would be good for parabola , what do you think?
>
> the licence is this , i think :
> CC-nc-sa .
>
> 'by' , the name , is not need .
> i want to make it a gift for you .


Thank you very much. Would you mind licensing it CC-by-sa or CC-sa. It 
is a requirement for being distributed by Parabola.

> but i have one question and one please:
> it is not possible to make parabola run of ARM ,
> so maybe it run for example of the raspberry-pi?
> i would like it much .


There is no arm port for Parabola.

> thank you , and i hope , you like the design .
>
>

It looks nice.

-- 
Saludos libres,

Quiliro Ord??ez
Presidente
Asociaci?n de Software Libre del Ecuador - ASLE
Av de la Prensa N58-219 y Crist?bal Vaca de Castro
Quito, Ecuador
(593)2-253 5534
(593)2-340 1517
(593)8-454 8078



From fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar  Fri Sep  7 16:58:42 2012
From: fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:58:42 -0300
Subject: [Dev] rsync for repos
In-Reply-To: <4F301F10.50301@googlemail.com>
References: <874nwurdvk.fsf@kiwwwi.com.ar> <4F301F10.50301@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <877gs5db25.fsf@kiwwwi.com.ar>

Johannes Krampf <johkra at googlemail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I want to have access. :-) Last time I asked fauno he told me there was 
> a port problem - are there any news on this?

use the port 875 
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From aurelien at cwb.io  Sun Sep  9 17:30:13 2012
From: aurelien at cwb.io (=?utf-8?Q?Aur=C3=A9lien?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 19:30:13 +0200
Subject: [Dev] =?utf-8?q?300_=E2=82=AC_pour_le_voyage_de_Richard_Matthew_S?=
 =?utf-8?q?tallman?=
Message-ID: <87txv7ayu2.fsf@cwb.io>


Bonjour,

Depuis de longs mois maintenant, ?ric m'a demand? de faire venir Richard
en Corse!

Je l'ai contact? et Richard est d'accord pour venir et faire diverses
interventions en Corse dont dans notre cher Universit? pour nos ?tudiants en
Informatique et autre bien s?re!

Bref ... Aujourd'hui alors que tout est fin pr?t ... il semblerait que
la "Crise" a eu des r?percussions jusqu'? notre ile au point de nous
rendre dans l'incapacit? financi?re d'offrir une travers?e Continent /
Corse et Corse / Continent ? Richard Matthew Stallman, Docteur en
Informatique, Pr?sident de la Free Software Foundation, inventeur du
logiciel / OS Libre et bien d'autres bonnes choses encore.

C'est donc ? vous p at m de Corse que je m'adresse et vous demande de bien
vouloir venir en aide ? la Collectivit? Territoriale de Corse afin que
nos enfants (les miens aussi ;-) puissent b?nificier de solutions les
menant au confins des Sciences de l'Informatique.

Tous ensemble pour un avenir libre ;-)

-- 
Aurelien DESBRIERES
Ride Free! Ride GNU.org


From mtjm at mtjm.eu  Tue Sep 11 11:07:56 2012
From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:07:56 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Supporting virtualization with external nonfree software
Message-ID: <87ipbk3jhv.fsf@mtjm.eu>

I believe the recent VirtualBox?[0] changes and removal of free VMware
graphics drivers are not needed for FSDG compatibility, introduce
unneeded technical issues and the only reasoning I see for them implies
other changes that we shouldn't do.

I think there is only one relevant part of the FSDG?[1] in these cases:

> In general, something that helps people who already use nonfree software
> to use the free software better with it is acceptable, but something
> that encourages users of the free software to install nonfree software
> is not.
>
> For example, a free system distribution may have documentation for users
> setting up dual boot systems. It could explain how to access filesystems
> of the proprietary operating system, import settings from it, and so
> on. That would be helping people install a free system distribution on a
> machine which already has proprietary software, which is good.
>
> What would be unacceptable is for the documentation to give people
> instructions for installing a nonfree program on the system, or mention
> conveniences they might gain by doing so.

As I have commented in?[2], I believe the operating system selection in
VirtualBox is used mostly by users already knowing what system to use,
it doesn't promote installing them (nor instruct how to do this).

Just like the VMware graphics drivers supported by QEMU, it does
technical changes that are useful with free software.  For example, some
free GNU/Linux distributions are based on distributions listed there and
could use optimizations specific to these base distributions.  If
someone makes yet another Debian-based free distro, should all
virtualization programs be updated to list it, instead of just listing
Debian which supports the same features?

I think a reason for such changes to be done might be that it's mostly,
officially, useful with nonfree software that is not provided nor
recommended by us.  How is this different from nearly all graphics
drivers that need nonfree video BIOS in the card, or from programs for
configuring UEFI boot firmware that is usually nonfree?  GRUB is usually
used with a nonfree BIOS, should it be removed for the same reason?  If
names are the issue, should we also stop using the GNU/Linux name which
includes a name of a program including nonfree software?

There are also much more clear cases of programs recommending nonfree
software in similar ways.  For example, unarchiver and ununrar are
promoted mostly to use files that cannot be made without using nonfree
software (although they support also e.g. ZIP files, not seen any
recommendation of using these to access ZIP files).  This is not
considered a problem by the FSF.


[0] https://parabolagnulinux.org/news/virtualbox-libre-new-version/

[1] https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.en.html

[2] https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/151
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From fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar  Thu Sep 13 13:42:42 2012
From: fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:42:42 -0300
Subject: [Dev] if the repo breaks...
Message-ID: <87ehm62g4t.fsf@kiwwwi.com.ar>

just wait for db-sync to repair it ;)

shackra now you have to pick one of this issues, they're very nice, and
fix it: https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/
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From fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar  Sun Sep 16 01:54:07 2012
From: fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 22:54:07 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Pierre Schmitz] [arch-dev-public] devtools will require
	running systemd
Message-ID: <87ipbezq9s.fsf@kiwwwi.com.ar>

FYI

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From hahj87 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 04:33:17 2012
From: hahj87 at gmail.com (Joshua Ismael Haase Hernandez)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:33:17 -0500
Subject: [Dev] Acerca de libretools/About libretools
Message-ID: <87haqtuxde.fsf@parabola.nu>

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Intent? hacer un buen PKGBUILD para [chiliproject] [] ([el que encontr? en AUR] [chili aur] apesta).

Libretools _era_ perfecto para esa tarea `aur ruby-rails` pero al parecer `aur` intenta usar `vimdiff` y falla sin avisar. ?No deber?an instalarse las dependencias autom?ticamente? ?o manejar el caso de que no est?n instalados?

Creo que __es un problema que modifiquemos los scripts para uso personal cuando deber?an ser gen?ricos__.

Adem?s tenemos 3 de 8 puntos en [el test de Joel Spolsky] [Joel test] (4 preguntas no aplican):

1. Control de versiones.
2. Empaquetado en un paso.
3. Base de datos para errores.

Pero nos falta:

4. Arreglar errores antes de hacer c?digo nuevo.
5. Agenda al d?a.
6. Especificaciones.
7. Control de calidad.
8. Pruebas de usabilidad.

Yo agregar?a:

9. Documentaci?n efectiva y actualizada.

Creo que __es importante hacer algo al respecto porque los scripts se est?n volviendo dif?ciles de mantener__ (`toru` no funciona, un mont?n de c?digo duplicado...) __y adaptados al estilo de uso de__ unos __pocos__ (?`vimdiff` obligatorio en `aur`?).

No voy a hacerlo inmediatamente, pero empiezo con las especificaciones de `fullpkg` y sus pruebas unitarias. A prop?sito, https://bugs.parabolagnulinux.org/ est? ca?do.

---
I tried to do a good PKGBUILD for [chiliproject] [] ([the one on AUR] [chili aur] sucks).

Libretools _was_ perfect for that task `aur ruby-rails` but it seems like `aur` try to run `vimdiff` and fails without notice. Shouldn't dependencies be managed automatically? Or handle the missing program?

I think __modifying scripts for personal use when they should be generic is a problem__.

Also, we have 3 from 8 points in [Joel Spolsky's test] [Joel test] (4 questions do not apply):

1. Version Control.
2. One step packaging.
3. Bug database.

We are missing:

4. Fixing bugs before writing new code.
5. Up to date schedule.
6. Specs.
7. Quality Assurance.
8. Usability tests.

I would add:

9. Effective and updated Docs.

I think __it's important to do something about it because libretools is getting hard to maintain__ (`toru` is broken, a lot of duplicated code...) __and adapted to few's personal workflow__ (forced `vimdiff` on `aur`?).

I'm not going to start inmediately, but I'm starting with `fullpkg` specs and it's unit tests. BTW, https://bugs.parabolagnulinux.org/ is down.

[chiliproject]: https://www.chiliproject.org/
[chili aur]: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=60338
[joel test]: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html
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From mtjm at mtjm.eu  Thu Sep 20 07:51:46 2012
From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:51:46 +0200
Subject: [Dev] Acerca de libretools/About libretools
In-Reply-To: <87haqtuxde.fsf@parabola.nu> (Joshua Ismael Haase Hernandez's
 message of "Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:33:17 -0500")
References: <87haqtuxde.fsf@parabola.nu>
Message-ID: <874nmt9lnx.fsf@mtjm.eu>

> Libretools _was_ perfect for that task `aur ruby-rails` but it seems
> like `aur` try to run `vimdiff` and fails without notice. Shouldn't
> dependencies be managed automatically? Or handle the missing program?

Should use /etc/libretools.conf which has a diff program setting?

I don't like having to merge the changes in /etc/libretools.conf when
updating, it's a long and customized file.  Maybe the programs could
have a good default (i.e. first program from a fixed list that is
available) and the default configuration would have an empty value for
it.

> I think __it's important to do something about it because libretools
> is getting hard to maintain__ (`toru` is broken, a lot of duplicated
> code...) __and adapted to few's personal workflow__ (forced `vimdiff`
> on `aur`?).

It is important.  Although toru works for some specific workflows, it
isn't documented enough and probably has bad defaults.

Having both fullpkg and treepkg for different workflows might be a part
of the same problem.

> I'm not going to start inmediately, but I'm starting with `fullpkg`
> specs and it's unit tests. BTW, https://bugs.parabolagnulinux.org/ is
> down.

It is, we can start it if it's needed for this (or provide database
dumps for the migration).
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From fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar  Thu Sep 20 13:33:31 2012
From: fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:33:31 -0300
Subject: [Dev] R:  Acerca de libretools/About libretools
In-Reply-To: <87haqtuxde.fsf@parabola.nu>
Message-ID: <87zk4ku8d0.fsf@kiwwwi.com.ar>


> Libretools _was_ perfect for that task `aur ruby-rails` but it seems
> like `aur` try to run `vimdiff` and fails without notice. Shouldn't
> dependencies be managed automatically? Or handle the missing program?

i think you refer to this commit[0], it uses DIFFTOOL from
libretools.conf, which defaults to vimdiff but it can be any diff'ing
tool that receives "file.new file.orig" as argument (it should be the
other way around, now that i say it).

it only applies when the package dir already exists, previous to that
you'd loose all your changes.

> I think __modifying scripts for personal use when they should be
> generic is a problem__.
> 
> Also, we have 3 from 8 points in [Joel Spolsky's test] [Joel test] (4
> questions do not apply):
> 
> 1. Version Control.
> 2. One step packaging.
> 3. Bug database.
> 
> We are missing:
> 
> 4. Fixing bugs before writing new code.
> 5. Up to date schedule.
> 6. Specs.
> 7. Quality Assurance.
> 8. Usability tests.
> 
> I would add:
> 
> 9. Effective and updated Docs.
> 
> I think __it's important to do something about it because libretools
> is getting hard to maintain__ (`toru` is broken, a lot of duplicated
> code...)  __and adapted to few's personal workflow__ (forced `vimdiff`
> on `aur`?).
>
>> It is important.  Although toru works for some specific workflows, it
>> isn't documented enough and probably has bad defaults.
>> 
>> Having both fullpkg and treepkg for different workflows might be a
>> part of the same problem.

treepkg is a rework of fullpkg, because it was becoming too long and
hard to maintain. i also started to experiment a different workflow that
has better results for me on mips64el and that i have discussed with
mtjm on irc but never here - sorry.

treepkg solved the problem of a package(1) and its dependency(2) needing
the same one(3), but fullpkg putting (3) after (2) or at the same
level. treepkg finds this and moves (3) before (2), and then runs the
packaging command from (3) to (1). it's also cleaner than fullpkg IMO.

i've written some documentation here[1].
 
> I'm not going to start inmediately, but I'm starting with `fullpkg`
> specs and it's unit tests. BTW, https://bugs.parabolagnulinux.org/ is
> down.

i think this is the time to say that "my experiments" are over and i've
found it much more comfortable to work from *inside* the chroot rather
than outside. this avoids mounting and unmounting /{dev,proc,sys} and
package caches because you can have them on fstab as bind mounts
(currently systemd fails at them but `mount /chroot/*` solves it.

also you can use plain `makepkg` instead of `libremakepkg` and having to
chroot if the build fails (or start all over if you have the centuries,
or fix the bugs to make it use makepkg flags correctly), a thing that i
do a lot when i package for i686.

if you don't like a stripped down work environment (without your config
files) i simply bind mount my ~ into it - but you'll have to edit
pkgbuilds with your favorite editor from another shell.

either way, i think treepkg can be adapted to use libremakepkg, chroot
cleanup and stage/release tools if you don't like this workflow. i admit
i haven't been using fullpkg lately, but git log shows me it's been
mature with a lot fewer commits :B

> [chiliproject]: https://www.chiliproject.org/
> [chili aur]: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=3D60338
> [joel test]: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html



[0]: https://projects.parabolagnulinux.org/libretools.git/commit/?id=9808018ca09050ade144d0dfc0b0b6edadefa368
[1]: https://projects.parabolagnulinux.org/libretools.git/tree/doc/treepkg.markdown
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From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep 26 20:20:31 2012
From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke T.Shumaker)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:20:31 -0400
Subject: [Dev] RFC: [java] repo, or similar
Message-ID: <87k3vg1qpc.wl%lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>

I've got a big'ol messy [java] folder sitting in my copy of abslibre
just waiting to be pushed.

A while ago we had a discussion about the proliferation of repos, and
decided that it should mostly be based on packaging standards.  I
believe that a [java] and [java-ugly] repo with their own standards
would be of benefit.

These would have different standards from our other repos
---------------------------------------------------------

[java] and [java-ugly]
 * PKGBUILDs can rely on features from latest git version of
  `makepkg`. I would package this.

[java]
 * Binaries and non-free code may be downloaded, as long as it is
   immediatly `rm`ed.
 * MAY NOT depend on packages from [java-ugly]

[java-ugly]
 * Like other repos, must be built from source, HOWEVER, they may make
   use of precompiled (.jar) binaries that are bundled with the source
   distribution, as long as it is still free software.
 * Non-free code may be downloaded, as long as it is immediatly
   `rm`ed. 
 * MAY depend on packages from [java]

Why these policies would benefit Parabola
-----------------------------------------

As a rule of thumb, if there is a Java-related package in [core],
[extra] or [community] that doesn't have an entry in the "libre" bug
tracker, it is because none of us have reviewed that package yet.

See, Arch's policy towards java packages can be summed up as

  These don't meet our normal policies, but Java is hard to
  package, so fuck it.
    - paraphrased from https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Java_Package_Guidelines

However for libre-related reasons, we don't have this same
relaxation.

However, the Arch devs do have a point--on Monday I litterally spend
12 hours packaging JNA in a way that is consistent with the [java]
repo rules, as defined above.  And it's still not good enough to go
into [libre]. (Downloads numerous .jar files, mostly free but
also the non-free `clover.jar`. However, the first thing `build()`
does is `find . -name '*.jar' -delete`)

We need a fast-track to get better packages into our repos, without
sacrificing the quality of [libre].  For this reason, I firmly
recomend the creation of [java].

I spent another few hours packaging 'arduino' in a way that is
consistent with [java] as defined above.  However, it would have been
*vastly* easier to package it for [java-ugly], and that still would
have been a *huge* improvement over arduino from AUR, which just
downloads a precompiled binaries from arduino.cc.

Those examples are less dramatic because they are packages from AUR,
but the packages in [core], [extra] and [community] are about on the
same level; see 'apache-ant' and 'maven'/'maven-libre'. Even
[libre]/maven-libre doesn't meet the policies for [libre] (and an
entry for it exists in the bugtracker), but we let it through because
maven(-libre) is a crucial part of building Java packages, and is such a huge
improvement over Arch's maven.

Happy Hacking!
~ Luke Shumaker


From mtjm at mtjm.eu  Thu Sep 27 13:19:51 2012
From: mtjm at mtjm.eu (=?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Mas=C5=82owski?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 15:19:51 +0200
Subject: [Dev] [Assist] Reporting bugs
In-Reply-To: <50644AA4.3070901@gnu.org> (ineiev@gnu.org's message of "Thu, 27
 Sep 2012 16:46:28 +0400")
References: <506430BC.6010806@gnu.org> <87a9wb4t2g.fsf@mtjm.eu>
 <50644AA4.3070901@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <87r4pn38nc.fsf@mtjm.eu>

Ineiev <ineiev at gnu.org> writes:

> On 09/27/2012 03:13 PM, Micha? Mas?owski wrote:
>> Register there or convince other developers that you don't need mail
>> notifications and we should allow anonymous submissions.
>
> Thank you; I choose not to register.
>
> How can I contact those other developers?

E.g. by writing to the dev at lists.parabolagnulinux.org list.

> Basically, my point is as follows: Parabola is known
> to follow FSF's guidelines for free system distributions; and
> they imply "a firm commitment to correct mistakes".
>
> I'm not sure the commitment may definitely qualify as firm
> if a random user can't easily report the bugs; personally,
> so far I've done the next:

You can report these in less formal ways, they rarely need to be
searchable or discussed on the tracker (most are "solved" by removing a
package and listing it on the blacklist).  Changing this is needed for
technical issues that e.g. prevent users from installing Parabola on
their machines.

> (0) I tried the described procedure for the first time (months ago).
> (1) When I failed to report the bug and to find on those pages
>     any contacts of Parabola people, I asked report-nonfree at fsf.org
>     for assistance; after some discussion they pointed to this mailing
>     list.

There are small links to the IRC channel and to the lists (and the main
page of the new issue tracker) on the main page.

> (2) I dropped a message to this list without prior subscription;
>     the message seems to have been rejected.

I think they are manually approved, I don't know who does it, we need a
clearer policy on that.

> I don't think it is absolutely necessary to accept anonymous
> submissions (though it would be good IMO); however, Parabola could
> at least

Several users wrote that they won't report bugs since it requires
registration, we should fix this.

> (a) say in the wiki (or better in the bug tracker) that one
> should register in order to report bugs there;

> (b) suggest that
> people may alternatively report bugs e.g. on this list;

This is implicit, would asking to report problems with the bug tracker
there be ok?

> (c) moderate the messages coming to that list from non-subscribers
> more carefully.
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From fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar  Thu Sep 27 14:16:19 2012
From: fauno at kiwwwi.com.ar (=?utf-8?Q?Nicol=C3=A1s?= Reynolds)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:16:19 -0300
Subject: [Dev] [Assist] Reporting bugs
In-Reply-To: <87r4pn38nc.fsf@mtjm.eu>
References: <506430BC.6010806@gnu.org> <87a9wb4t2g.fsf@mtjm.eu>
 <50644AA4.3070901@gnu.org> <87r4pn38nc.fsf@mtjm.eu>
Message-ID: <87vcezpn4c.fsf@kiwwwi.com.ar>

Micha? Mas?owski <mtjm at mtjm.eu> writes:

> Ineiev <ineiev at gnu.org> writes:
>
>> On 09/27/2012 03:13 PM, Micha? Mas?owski wrote:
>>> Register there or convince other developers that you don't need mail
>>> notifications and we should allow anonymous submissions.
>>
>> Thank you; I choose not to register.

my problem with anonymous bug reports is that if you have to ask for
more details to the reporter you're screwed, and if the bug report is
vague to say the least you have to guess and search by yourself - it's
more work for you and it's annoying.

but i'd implement anonymous bug reports with a bug report template or
accept any other idea that tries to solve this problem.

(also as of today the registration is immediate, no mail confirmation
required and i think mtjm enabled openid)

> There are small links to the IRC channel and to the lists (and the main
> page of the new issue tracker) on the main page.

i personally prefer the irc channel for casual bug reporting

>> (2) I dropped a message to this list without prior subscription;
>>     the message seems to have been rejected.
>
> I think they are manually approved, I don't know who does it, we need a
> clearer policy on that.

if assist@ talk to shackra

>> I don't think it is absolutely necessary to accept anonymous
>> submissions (though it would be good IMO); however, Parabola could
>> at least
>
> Several users wrote that they won't report bugs since it requires
> registration, we should fix this.

i never saw a bug tracker that doesn't require registration though :D

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From lukeshu at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep 28 21:55:27 2012
From: lukeshu at sbcglobal.net (Luke T.Shumaker)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 17:55:27 -0400
Subject: [Dev] RFC: [java] repo, or similar
In-Reply-To: <87k3vg1qpc.wl%lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>
References: <87k3vg1qpc.wl%lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <878vbt24og.wl%lukeshu@sbcglobal.net>

I'd also like to add a [java-bootstrap] that is NOT built from source,
but can be used to "cross-compile" or bootstrap a package.  Example:
the java-asm2<->java-ow-util-ant-tasks dependency where you need one
of them to compile the other. (Both of those packages are currently in
[libre], but I had to download a binary .jar to get the first up.

~ Luke Shumaker


From crij-ajaccio at wanadoo.fr  Mon Sep 10 08:53:20 2012
From: crij-ajaccio at wanadoo.fr (crij-ajaccio at wanadoo.fr)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 08:53:20 -0000
Subject: [Dev]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=5BP=40m-Sarte=5D_300_=3F_pour_le_voyage_de_?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Richard_Matthew_Stallman?=
References: <87txv7ayu2.fsf@cwb.io>
Message-ID: <C2957AC827AC42CAA52AA8830CC38A18@crij556178c1a6>

Salut!

n'est pas la CTC qui est normalement cens?e nous venir en aide ??? C'est le 
monde ? l'envers ;)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: ""Aur?lien"" <aurelien at cwb.io>
To: <pam at fscorsica.org>; <rms at gnu.org>; <dev at parabolagnulinux.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 7:30 PM
Subject: [P at m-Sarte] 300 ? pour le voyage de Richard Matthew Stallman



Bonjour,

Depuis de longs mois maintenant, ?ric m'a demand? de faire venir Richard
en Corse!

Je l'ai contact? et Richard est d'accord pour venir et faire diverses
interventions en Corse dont dans notre cher Universit? pour nos ?tudiants en
Informatique et autre bien s?re!

Bref ... Aujourd'hui alors que tout est fin pr?t ... il semblerait que
la "Crise" a eu des r?percussions jusqu'? notre ile au point de nous
rendre dans l'incapacit? financi?re d'offrir une travers?e Continent /
Corse et Corse / Continent ? Richard Matthew Stallman, Docteur en
Informatique, Pr?sident de la Free Software Foundation, inventeur du
logiciel / OS Libre et bien d'autres bonnes choses encore.

C'est donc ? vous p at m de Corse que je m'adresse et vous demande de bien
vouloir venir en aide ? la Collectivit? Territoriale de Corse afin que
nos enfants (les miens aussi ;-) puissent b?nificier de solutions les
menant au confins des Sciences de l'Informatique.

Tous ensemble pour un avenir libre ;-)

-- 
Aurelien DESBRIERES
Ride Free! Ride GNU.org

_______________________________________________
Pam mailing list
Pam at fscorsica.org
http://fscorsica.org/mailman/listinfo/pam_fscorsica.org 



From eric.ferrari at mitic.corse.fr  Mon Sep 10 09:11:50 2012
From: eric.ferrari at mitic.corse.fr (Eric Ferrari)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 09:11:50 -0000
Subject: [Dev] [P@m-Sarte] 300 ? pour le voyage de Richard Matthew
	Stallman
In-Reply-To: <C2957AC827AC42CAA52AA8830CC38A18@crij556178c1a6>
References: <87txv7ayu2.fsf@cwb.io>
 <C2957AC827AC42CAA52AA8830CC38A18@crij556178c1a6>
Message-ID: <CANwpghDy9sfAt8xpFvd2oTgq=2MtnPOeMcnTcr=iZhRSTcxYLw@mail.gmail.com>

Bonjour,
je me permets de r?pondre au message transmis par monsieur Aurelien
DESBRIERES :

En effet nous avions envisag? ensemble la visite de monsieur Stallman en
Corse dans le cadre d'un programme organis? autour de la promotion du
Logiciel Libre.

Afin de donner du corps ? cette visite le programme devait se faire autour
d'une s?rie de conf?rences en Corse notamment ? l'universit?, au sein du
r?seau des PAM, aupr?s des ?lus et du public, intervention ? Via Stella....

Cette venue devait ?tre aussi l'occasion de mettre en place et de r?fl?chir
sur une dynamique Logiciel Libre en Corse.

Or au fil de l'ann?e les contraintes de chacun n'ont pas permis de mettre
en place ce programme et par cons?quent la venue de monsieur Stallman
risquait de se faire en Corse de fa?on trop confidentielle.

Ainsi a t'il ?t? pr?f?rable de reporter la visite et de mettre en place
cette initiative autour du logiciel Libre en 2013 dans l'objectif de cr?er
une dynamique en Corse.

J'ai r?pondu ? monsieur Stallman que nous ?tions face ? des restrictions
budg?taires cette ann?e qui notamment ne nous ont pas permis d'organiser
les 2i?me assises de la m?diation num?rique au cours desquelles
l'intervention sur le logiciel Libre ?tait pr?vue et en coh?rence.

Nous mettrons tout en oeuvre pour envisager cet ?v?nement en 2013 avec
?videmment votre participation et celle de l'ensemble des personnes qui se
mobilisent autour du LL.

Penser que la d?cision rel?ve de 300 ? de budget et/ou d'un billet d'avion
rel?ve certainement d'un erreur d'appr?ciation de l'objectif de la d?marche
entre monsieur DESBRIERES et moi m?me.

Bien cordialement
Eric Ferrari


Le 10 septembre 2012 10:53, <crij-ajaccio at wanadoo.fr> a ?crit :

> Salut!
>
> n'est pas la CTC qui est normalement cens?e nous venir en aide ??? C'est
> le monde ? l'envers ;)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: ""Aur?lien"" <aurelien at cwb.io>
> To: <pam at fscorsica.org>; <rms at gnu.org>; <dev at parabolagnulinux.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 7:30 PM
> Subject: [P at m-Sarte] 300 ? pour le voyage de Richard Matthew Stallman
>
>
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Depuis de longs mois maintenant, ?ric m'a demand? de faire venir Richard
> en Corse!
>
> Je l'ai contact? et Richard est d'accord pour venir et faire diverses
> interventions en Corse dont dans notre cher Universit? pour nos ?tudiants
> en
> Informatique et autre bien s?re!
>
> Bref ... Aujourd'hui alors que tout est fin pr?t ... il semblerait que
> la "Crise" a eu des r?percussions jusqu'? notre ile au point de nous
> rendre dans l'incapacit? financi?re d'offrir une travers?e Continent /
> Corse et Corse / Continent ? Richard Matthew Stallman, Docteur en
> Informatique, Pr?sident de la Free Software Foundation, inventeur du
> logiciel / OS Libre et bien d'autres bonnes choses encore.
>
> C'est donc ? vous p at m de Corse que je m'adresse et vous demande de bien
> vouloir venir en aide ? la Collectivit? Territoriale de Corse afin que
> nos enfants (les miens aussi ;-) puissent b?nificier de solutions les
> menant au confins des Sciences de l'Informatique.
>
> Tous ensemble pour un avenir libre ;-)
>
> --
> Aurelien DESBRIERES
> Ride Free! Ride GNU.org
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Pam mailing list
> Pam at fscorsica.org
> http://fscorsica.org/mailman/**listinfo/pam_fscorsica.org<http://fscorsica.org/mailman/listinfo/pam_fscorsica.org>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Pam mailing list
> Pam at fscorsica.org
> http://fscorsica.org/mailman/**listinfo/pam_fscorsica.org<http://fscorsica.org/mailman/listinfo/pam_fscorsica.org>
>
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From rms at gnu.org  Mon Sep 10 14:35:25 2012
From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:35:25 -0000
Subject: [Dev] [P@m-Sarte] 300 ? pour le voyage de Richard Matthew
	Stallman
In-Reply-To: <CANwpghDy9sfAt8xpFvd2oTgq=2MtnPOeMcnTcr=iZhRSTcxYLw@mail.gmail.com>
 (message from Eric Ferrari on Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:11:48 +0200)
References: <87txv7ayu2.fsf@cwb.io>
 <C2957AC827AC42CAA52AA8830CC38A18@crij556178c1a6>
 <CANwpghDy9sfAt8xpFvd2oTgq=2MtnPOeMcnTcr=iZhRSTcxYLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1TB558-0002FJ-KJ@fencepost.gnu.org>

Moi je comprends le probl?me, et je respecte la d?cision.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call