From drew at dangerfields.ca Tue Jul 3 01:35:07 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 17:35:07 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Falkon Install Failed Message-ID: <1645d907bc6.1196aa63381178.249907357993745798@dangerfields.ca> I'm trying to install Falkon browser but I get this result: drew at drew-asus: ~ $ pacman -Ss falkon extra/falkon 3.0.1-4 Cross-platform QtWebEngine browser drew at drew-asus: ~ $ sudo pacman -Syu [sudo] password for drew: :: Synchronizing package databases... libre is up to date core is up to date extra is up to date community is up to date pcr is up to date :: Starting full system upgrade... there is nothing to do drew at drew-asus: ~ $ sudo pacman -S falkon resolving dependencies... warning: cannot resolve "qt5-webengine", a dependency of "falkon" :: The following package cannot be upgraded due to unresolvable dependencies: falkon :: Do you want to skip the above package for this upgrade? [y/N] y looking for conflicting packages... there is nothing to do drew at drew-asus: ~ $ How to fix this? Thank you. Drew From bill-auger at peers.community Tue Jul 3 01:47:48 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 20:47:48 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Falkon Install Failed In-Reply-To: <1645d907bc6.1196aa63381178.249907357993745798@dangerfields.ca> References: <1645d907bc6.1196aa63381178.249907357993745798@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <20180702204748.c3e43d32f854c984fe6e32c4@peers.community> that program is considered to be non-free and not available from parabola - there is an open ticket about it on the bug tractker https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1783 you "fix that" by using a different browser such as iceweasel, epiphany, or any of the many others that are available -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From megver83 at megver83.ga Tue Jul 3 03:28:56 2018 From: megver83 at megver83.ga (Megver83) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 22:28:56 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Falkon Install Failed In-Reply-To: <798e364b-26c6-55f4-15f4-47a369d031d0@hyperbola.info> References: <798e364b-26c6-55f4-15f4-47a369d031d0@hyperbola.info> Message-ID: <41784bb4-03dc-7d7f-c6c4-576f659a237e@megver83.ga> El 02/07/18 a las 20:47, bill-auger escribi?: > that program is considered to be non-free and not available from parabola - there is an open ticket about it on the bug tractker > > https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1783 > > you "fix that" by using a different browser such as iceweasel, epiphany, or any of the many others that are available > > > > _______________________________________________ > Assist mailing list > Assist at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/assist > The other option is to try installing it without qt5-webengine and see what happens: # pacman -S --assume-installed qt5-webengine falkon --- ~Megver83 SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org XMPP: megver83 at jabjab.de Tox: megver83 at toxme.io GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78 GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl Diaspora*: megver83 at diasp.org Matrix: @Megver83:matrix.org PixelFed: https://pixelfed.social/Megver83 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 516 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Tue Jul 3 03:37:42 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 19:37:42 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Falkon Install Fail Message-ID: <1645e00b78c.cbd04f72118276.6274034874832847616@dangerfields.ca> >Message: 6 >Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 20:47:48 -0400 >From: bill-auger >To: assist at lists.parabola.nu >Subject: Re: [Assist] Falkon Install Failed >Message-ID: <20180702204748.c3e43d32f854c984fe6e32c4 at peers.community> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >that program is considered to be non-free and not available from parabola - there is an open ticket about it on the bug tractker But the Parabola wiki states that extra repos from Arch have had the blacklisted material removed?? "1.1.3 core/extra core and extra are imported from Arch, but with blacklisted packages removed." Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Tue Jul 3 03:47:38 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 19:47:38 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Falkon Install Failed Message-ID: <1645e09cfa5.ff43cae8118870.3401547879297310515@dangerfields.ca> "The other option is to try installing it without qt5-webengine and see what happens: # pacman -S --assume-installed qt5-webengine falkon" This command completed successfully and the icon was placed in the Internet category of the Menu but the program won't run. Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From freemor at freemor.ca Tue Jul 3 11:56:36 2018 From: freemor at freemor.ca (Freemor) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 07:56:36 -0300 Subject: [Assist] Falkon Install Failed In-Reply-To: <1645e09cfa5.ff43cae8118870.3401547879297310515@dangerfields.ca> References: <1645e09cfa5.ff43cae8118870.3401547879297310515@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <20180703105636.GL22901@freemor.ca> On Mon, Jul 02, 2018 at 07:47:38PM -0700, Drew wrote: > "The other option is to try installing it without qt5-webengine and see what > happens: # pacman -S --assume-installed qt5-webengine falkon" This command > completed successfully and the icon was placed in the Internet category of > the Menu but the program won't run. Drew Drew, I think that perhaps you've missed what others are trying to say / demonstrate qt5-webengine == the guts of chrome == all kinds of google telemetry and other freedom issues Falcon is just a wrapper around qt5-webengine. So basically just a re-skinned Chrome Parabola does not carry software that will damage your freedom in this manner. This leaves you 3 workable options. 1.) Use a different browser 2.) Take some other action and give up your freedom. These would include: a.) Manually install qt5-webengine (not recommended nor supported in Parabola) c.) Move to a different Distro (again giving up your freedom) 3.) Re-write Falcon to use one of the freedom respecting rendering engines I would strongly suggest going with option 1, and filing a bug report on https://labs.parabola.nu that the Falcon package should be removed from the Parabola repos. Unless you have the time and skill to pull off, and then maintain option 3 which would give the world a freedom respecting version of Falcon. I hope that this helps to make the situation more clear. Regards, Freemor -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From bill-auger at peers.community Tue Jul 3 14:20:32 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 09:20:32 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Falkon Install Failed In-Reply-To: <20180703105636.GL22901@freemor.ca> References: <1645e09cfa5.ff43cae8118870.3401547879297310515@dangerfields.ca> <20180703105636.GL22901@freemor.ca> Message-ID: <20180703092032.83d9d0c7e43651a6effa09f6@peers.community> that bug report already exists -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From megver83 at megver83.ga Wed Jul 4 04:34:42 2018 From: megver83 at megver83.ga (Megver83) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 23:34:42 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Cannot watch PeerTube videos on Iceweasel Message-ID: <4351f0ab-7709-ef6a-7e15-29777acd8e84@megver83.ga> Can anyone of you watch peertube videos on Iceweasel? I get a message on almost all videos from the instances I've tried: "The media could not be loaded, either because the server or network failed or because the format is not supported." and in Midori is worst: "No compatible source was found for this media." However, I tested the same videos in my brother's laptop (with Manjaro and Firefox) and it worked perfectly. What is it? do you have the same problem? if no one else can play peertube videos in Parabola, we should open a bug report in the issue tracker, I think. -- ~Megver83 SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org XMPP: megver83 at jabjab.de Tox: megver83 at toxme.io GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78 GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl Diaspora*: megver83 at diasp.org Matrix: @Megver83:matrix.org PixelFed: pixelfed.social/Megver83 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 516 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From advocati at gmx.com Mon Jul 2 09:34:05 2018 From: advocati at gmx.com (www.Advocati.org) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 10:34:05 +0200 Subject: [Assist] old Parabola version; signatures; checksums Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill-auger at peers.community Wed Jul 4 06:40:15 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 01:40:15 -0400 Subject: [Assist] old Parabola version; signatures; checksums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180704014015.3f306f529182e343b1adbd30@peers.community> that ISO was replaced recently with an updated one - i have atteched the signature file parabola-openrc-2017.09.30-dual.iso.sig to this message can you tell me why you would want to use the older ISO? is there anything that it does differently than the new one? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: parabola-openrc-2017.09.30-dual.iso.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 310 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bill-auger at peers.community Wed Jul 4 06:44:28 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 01:44:28 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Cannot watch PeerTube videos on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <4351f0ab-7709-ef6a-7e15-29777acd8e84@megver83.ga> References: <4351f0ab-7709-ef6a-7e15-29777acd8e84@megver83.ga> Message-ID: <20180704014428.4678f1b82a20d9b6d2c29779@peers.community> On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 23:34:42 -0400 Megver83 wrote: > we should open a bug report in the issue tracker, I think. like this one? https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1837 Page title: `Bug #1837: [iceweasel] mp4 does not play - Packages - Parabola Issue Tracker' there is a beta build of iceweasel 60 in [libre-testing] that is said to fix that codec problem -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From megver83 at megver83.ga Wed Jul 4 19:32:15 2018 From: megver83 at megver83.ga (Megver83) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 14:32:15 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Cannot watch PeerTube videos on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <20180704014428.4678f1b82a20d9b6d2c29779@peers.community> References: <4351f0ab-7709-ef6a-7e15-29777acd8e84@megver83.ga> <20180704014428.4678f1b82a20d9b6d2c29779@peers.community> Message-ID: El 04/07/18 a las 01:44, bill-auger escribi?: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 23:34:42 -0400 Megver83 wrote: >> we should open a bug report in the issue tracker, I think. > > > like this one? > > https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1837 > Page title: `Bug #1837: [iceweasel] mp4 does not play - Packages - Parabola Issue Tracker' > > there is a beta build of iceweasel 60 in [libre-testing] that is said to fix that codec problem > Just installed the [libre-testing] version and it's working. Thanks for the info -- ~Megver83 SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org XMPP: megver83 at jabjab.de Tox: megver83 at toxme.io GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78 GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl Diaspora*: megver83 at diasp.org Matrix: @Megver83:matrix.org PixelFed: https://pixelfed.social/Megver83 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 516 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From megver83 at megver83.ga Wed Jul 4 20:06:39 2018 From: megver83 at megver83.ga (Megver83) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 15:06:39 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Cannot watch PeerTube videos on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: References: <4351f0ab-7709-ef6a-7e15-29777acd8e84@megver83.ga> <20180704014428.4678f1b82a20d9b6d2c29779@peers.community> Message-ID: <450b0798-ff0c-6ecc-91b5-165b85aa56f7@megver83.ga> El 04/07/18 a las 14:32, Megver83 escribi?: > El 04/07/18 a las 01:44, bill-auger escribi?: >> On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 23:34:42 -0400 Megver83 wrote: >>> we should open a bug report in the issue tracker, I think. >> >> >> like this one? >> >> https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1837 >> Page title: `Bug #1837: [iceweasel] mp4 does not play - Packages - Parabola Issue Tracker' >> >> there is a beta build of iceweasel 60 in [libre-testing] that is said to fix that codec problem >> > Just installed the [libre-testing] version and it's working. Thanks for > the info > this is strange: before I wrote this mail, Peertube videos worked OK, but then they stopped reproducing the audio (now they are video only). -- ~Megver83 SIP: megver83 at sip.linphone.org XMPP: megver83 at jabjab.de Tox: megver83 at toxme.io GPG: 0x227CA7C556B2BA78 GNUSocial: @megver82 at quitter.cl Diaspora*: megver83 at diasp.org Matrix: @Megver83:matrix.org PixelFed: https://pixelfed.social/Megver83 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 516 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nroof at protonmail.com Sat Jul 7 15:07:05 2018 From: nroof at protonmail.com (nRoof) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2018 10:07:05 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Cannot watch PeerTube videos on Iceweasel In-Reply-To: <450b0798-ff0c-6ecc-91b5-165b85aa56f7@megver83.ga> References: <4351f0ab-7709-ef6a-7e15-29777acd8e84@megver83.ga> <20180704014428.4678f1b82a20d9b6d2c29779@peers.community> <450b0798-ff0c-6ecc-91b5-165b85aa56f7@megver83.ga> Message-ID: I have the same issue with the Tor Browser and GNU IceCat as well. What's interesting: when exactly the same folder of TB is copied to a VM with latest Debian, video works fine. It seems to be related to H.264: * https://www.quirksmode.org/html5/tests/video.html : H.264 clip cannot be played * https://www.youtube.com/html5 : H.264 and MSE & H.264 are listed as not supported * about:support in address bar -> Graphics shows "Hardware H264 Decoding: No; Failed to create H264 decoder" From brettg at posteo.net Wed Jul 11 02:32:50 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 20:32:50 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Freedom Issue - Telegram Desktop Message-ID: An update and a translation from the Freenode IRC channel, I have filed a freedom-issue regarding telegram-desktop. While I encourage you to check the IRC logs for more information, a brief summary of the issue is that the telegram-desktop client and its appropriately building libraries are GPL/LGPL, but it only functions based on an interaction with a non-free SaaSS. If it were to have any other functionality, this would be a non-issue. An email has been sent to the FSF on the matter, as I suspect this is a matter of precendence and is likely applicable to a few other FSF-endorsed GNU/Linux distributions. https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1882 How Service as a Software Substitute Takes Away Your Freedom https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ineiev at gnu.org Wed Jul 11 18:32:18 2018 From: ineiev at gnu.org (Ineiev) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 13:32:18 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Freedom Issue - Telegram Desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180711173218.GE17905@gnu.org> Hello, On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 08:32:50PM -0500, Brett Gilio wrote: > While I encourage > you to check the IRC logs for more information Could you provide an URL? > it only functions based on an interaction with a non-free SaaSS. Perhaps this wording could be improved, https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/network-services-arent-free-or-nonfree.html > An email has been sent to the FSF on the matter What does the FSF say? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From bill-auger at peers.community Wed Jul 11 19:31:57 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:31:57 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Freedom Issue - Telegram Desktop In-Reply-To: <20180711173218.GE17905@gnu.org> References: <20180711173218.GE17905@gnu.org> Message-ID: <20180711143157.55ed67e7@parabola> On Wed 2018-07-11 01:32:18 PM - Ineiev wrote: > On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 08:32:50PM -0500, Brett Gilio wrote: > > While I encourage > > you to check the IRC logs for more information > > Could you provide an URL? AFAIK parabola does not keep IRC logs - that is not important anyways - this same issue applies to many software programs besides this one - the reason it is this particular program that is in question today is because it was recently added by arch other programs have been rejected in the past by parabola for this same reason that they serve no valid function other than to interact with a proprietary service; i do not know of any that were deemed as acceptable by parabola i dont know whether that goes beyond the FSDG or not; but parabola has a history of taking freedom and privacy issues beyond what the FSDG strictly requires On Wed 2018-07-11 01:32:18 PM - Ineiev wrote: > On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 08:32:50PM -0500, Brett Gilio wrote: > > An email has been sent to the FSF on the matter > > What does the FSF say? maybe you could reprint the email here brett and CC this list in any replies -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bill-auger at peers.community Wed Jul 11 19:33:29 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:33:29 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Freedom Issue - Telegram Desktop In-Reply-To: <20180711173218.GE17905@gnu.org> References: <20180711173218.GE17905@gnu.org> Message-ID: <20180711143329.7c7aa9ee@parabola> related issue on the bug tracker https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1882 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From brettg at posteo.net Wed Jul 11 23:57:08 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:57:08 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From Dr. Richard Stallman -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:48:19 -0400 From: Richard Stallman Reply-To: rms at gnu.org To: Brett Gilio CC: rms at gnu.org [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > As for the matter at hand, there is a popular instant messaging protocol > called Telegram. As is increasingly common these days, the desktop > client (which is written in native Qt) is GPL, as are the libraries > required for it to run. However, as you might expect, the free desktop > client /only/ has the ability to connect to a non-free and non-auditable > SaaSS. We agree about the facts. Your analysis and mine diverge at this point. The distinction between free and nonfree is applicable only to programs (or, more generally, to works which do or can exist in copies). It is not meaningful for services of any kind. See https://gnu.org/philosophy/network-services-arent-free-or-nonfree.html. Every service is non-auditable by nature, so this is not a meaningful criterion to judge individual services. Every service is also outside the control of its users, by nature. That's why we say you should not entrust your own computing activity to a service run by others that are not working in some way for you. That mistaken practice is what we call Service as a Software Substitute. See https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html. As that page explains, communicating with others is not your own personal activity. It is, rather, a joint activity with others. A server for communication with others is not SaaSS because it is not substituting for a program. On the contrary, you couldn't do that job by running any collection of software on your own computer -- unless you made your computer operate as a server. But then your server would have the same drawbacks as any other communications server, for users other than you. This is why we don't try to judge free programs that talk to servers based on what the server does. We urge people to reject SaaSS, but this case is not SaaSS. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From brettg at posteo.net Thu Jul 12 03:50:18 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 21:50:18 -0500 Subject: [Assist] 1882 & Freedom Message-ID: <795a037e-4f0d-57fc-1c1d-c3b8dbc61319@posteo.net> https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1882?issue_count=277&issue_position=1&next_issue_id=1881 Given RMSs response on the matter, what is the next step for rendering a decision on the package? -- Brett Gilio From bill-auger at peers.community Thu Jul 12 12:57:02 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 07:57:02 -0400 Subject: [Assist] 1882 & Freedom In-Reply-To: <795a037e-4f0d-57fc-1c1d-c3b8dbc61319@posteo.net> References: <795a037e-4f0d-57fc-1c1d-c3b8dbc61319@posteo.net> Message-ID: On 07/11/2018 10:50 PM, Brett Gilio wrote: > Given RMSs response on the matter, what is the next step for rendering a > decision on the package? most practically speaking, if RMS had asked for that program to be removed then it would be removed - that recent response is to be read as "the FSF would not hold it against a FSDG distro if it distributes that program" - that does not imply that it can not be removed in reality, there probably will be no "next step" nor "decision rendered" in and formal sense - a couple of years ago, before i was with parabola, there was some voting mechanism used; but as i remember, it was only for wide-reaching, essential concerns for which it would be inappropriate for one person to decide, such as policy or infrastructure changes - there has not been any such voting since then; but i suspect that if we did put this program to vote, that most would agree that it should be removed what is most likely to actually happen is that someone who is paying attention to this issue currently (such as myself) may just add it to the black-list (or not) and close the bug report (or not) - there are a number of items pending for that procedure currently - if i do not do this today, then the bug report may simply remain open until some day when someone has some free time and searches for open freedom issues to resolve - then that person will decide what to do about it sorry if that sounds too informal or inconsistent, that is the "adhocratic" nature of parabola's management - for example, i could black-list that package today, then someone else could re-instate it tomorrow - i would not expect any real objections among the team regarding such small decisions unless they break the system or blatantly violate policy as for policy, jxself suggested yesterday that maybe there could be more precise and fine-grained policies (ala debian?) that could prescribe for the general case represented by this package; but there is nothing of that sort now and it is not clear if anyone wants a large body of specific policies when a small set of general principles would suffice - if you read the "Parabola Social Contract", which is the entirety of parabola's policies, you will notice that it is remarkably brief - as i understand, every word of that was discussed at length and voted upon in detail; so its brevity is no indication of any omissions - i think that its brevity is quite intentional as to be of the same philosophy as the "KISS principle" of technical simplicity -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From brettg at posteo.net Thu Jul 12 13:50:42 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 07:50:42 -0500 Subject: [Assist] 1882 & Freedom In-Reply-To: References: <795a037e-4f0d-57fc-1c1d-c3b8dbc61319@posteo.net> Message-ID: > what is most likely to actually happen is that someone who is paying > attention to this issue currently (such as myself) may just add it to > the black-list (or not) and close the bug report (or not) - there are a > number of items pending for that procedure currently - if i do not do > this today, then the bug report may simply remain open until some day > when someone has some free time and searches for open freedom issues to > resolve - then that person will decide what to do about it That sounds good. Thank you, bill. Brett Gilio brettg at posteo.net | bmg at member.fsf.org Free Software -- Free Society! From drew at dangerfields.ca Thu Jul 12 23:24:48 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 15:24:48 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Install Problems Message-ID: <1649098c684.b6009def69019.2385934799126043407@dangerfields.ca> Trying to install systemd with calamares from a USB stick.? These same issues arise regardless of whether I am using an .iso downloaded direct from the web or via torrent and regardless of whether I boot UEFI or not. As the boot script is running by there is a highlighted FAILED line: the script then stalls for 1:30 because there is a start job running the script then continues and the live .iso loads and becomes operational Double clicking on "Install Parabola" starts through the process.? I choose erase the entire disk. Installation begins, slowly gets to 15% or 16% of installing the root filesystem stalls for a few moments, jumps back to 13% sometimes pops up an Installation Failed window, sometimes just stalls forever. Advice please and thank you. Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill-auger at peers.community Thu Jul 12 23:57:36 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 18:57:36 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Install Problems In-Reply-To: <1649098c684.b6009def69019.2385934799126043407@dangerfields.ca> References: <1649098c684.b6009def69019.2385934799126043407@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <98487623-072f-c898-c65a-71e086b723ef@peers.community> it sounds like you are using an older version of the ISO - if you have the current version you would get a file on the desktop named install.log if ever the graphical installer fails''you can see by the file name which one you have and also in the boot screen the best option is the "complete" edition - the install should succeed even if there is no internet connection - then if there are any problems with the installed system, those could be addressed in the standard way https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola#Parabola_systemd_LXDE_ISO -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Fri Jul 13 05:08:48 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 21:08:48 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Mirror Update Message-ID: <16491d3b546.e86f98c787581.560086587883550330@dangerfields.ca> I am trying to update my mirrors but pacman returns this, although these commands are executed without a problem on Manjaro: drew at drew-asus: ~ $ sudo pacman-mirrors -g && sudo pacman -Syy [sudo] password for drew: sudo: pacman-mirrors: command not found drew at drew-asus: ~ $ sudo pacman mirrors -g && sudo pacman -Syy error: invalid option '-g' drew at drew-asus: ~ $ I couldn't find anything in the wiki that explains what the problem is.? Thanks for any advice. Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettg at posteo.net Fri Jul 13 05:19:08 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 23:19:08 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Mirror Update In-Reply-To: <16491d3b546.e86f98c787581.560086587883550330@dangerfields.ca> References: <16491d3b546.e86f98c787581.560086587883550330@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <01ca1795-60a8-c513-eb8d-246cfb1ec951@posteo.net> On 07/12/2018 11:08 PM, Drew wrote: > I am trying to update my mirrors but pacman returns this, although these > commands are executed without a problem on Manjaro: That is because pacman-mirrors is a Manjaro package. You can either custom modify your mirrorlist at /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist or you can use one of the mirrorlist management tools like reflector. -- Brett Gilio brettg at posteo.net | bmg at member.fsf.org Free Software -- Free Society! From drew at dangerfields.ca Fri Jul 13 06:24:55 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 22:24:55 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts Message-ID: <16492196660.b5a0f06283155.5475348357258803852@dangerfields.ca> Octopi dependency conflicts won't let me sync databases and update, won't let me reinstall Octopi and won't let me uninstall it.? What to do: drew at drew-asus: ~ $ sudo pacman -Syu [sudo] password for drew: :: Synchronizing package databases... ?libre is up to date ?core is up to date ?extra is up to date ?community????????????????? 4.2 MiB? 2.28M/s 00:02 [######################] 100% ?pcr is up to date :: Starting full system upgrade... resolving dependencies... looking for conflicting packages... :: octopi and octopi-notifier are in conflict. Remove octopi-notifier? [y/N] n error: unresolvable package conflicts detected error: failed to prepare transaction (conflicting dependencies) :: octopi and octopi-notifier are in conflict drew at drew-asus: ~ $ sudo pacman -S octopi resolving dependencies... looking for conflicting packages... :: octopi and octopi-notifier are in conflict. Remove octopi-notifier? [y/N] n error: unresolvable package conflicts detected error: failed to prepare transaction (conflicting dependencies) :: octopi and octopi-notifier are in conflict drew at drew-asus: ~ $ sudo pacman -R octopi checking dependencies... error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies) :: octopi-notifier: removing octopi breaks dependency 'octopi' drew at drew-asus: ~ $ Thank you. Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettg at posteo.net Fri Jul 13 06:30:31 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:30:31 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <16492196660.b5a0f06283155.5475348357258803852@dangerfields.ca> References: <16492196660.b5a0f06283155.5475348357258803852@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <8979838a-f46c-d677-0260-d3b296f34e52@posteo.net> On 07/13/2018 12:24 AM, Drew wrote: > Octopi dependency conflicts won't let me sync databases and update, > won't let me reinstall Octopi and won't let me uninstall it.? What to do: Do you need the package occtopi-notifier? -- Brett Gilio brettg at posteo.net | bmg at member.fsf.org https://www.parabola.nu/ | https://www.emacs.org/ Free Software -- Free Society! From brettg at posteo.net Fri Jul 13 06:47:22 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:47:22 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <164922aa547.cac5993884774.5251244314407372181@dangerfields.ca> References: <16492196660.b5a0f06283155.5475348357258803852@dangerfields.ca> <8979838a-f46c-d677-0260-d3b296f34e52@posteo.net> <164922aa547.cac5993884774.5251244314407372181@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: On 07/13/2018 12:43 AM, Drew wrote: > No, not really but if I enter Y and remove Notifier, the next thing that > comes up is a conflict with each of the other Octopi addons in turn. > Then finally, it aborts the update anyway.? If you don't mind a > voluminous email, I can go through that entire procedure and send you > what the terminal returns. > > Actually, I can easily update from the command line (although Octopi is > handy for searching for packages) but as things stand now, I can't even > do that because the broken Octopi dependencies are blocking everything. > > /*Drew*/ try pacman -Rsc octopi-notifier and let me know what it returns before commiting it. P.S. you replied off list, please respond on list. -- Brett Gilio brettg at posteo.net | bmg at member.fsf.org https://www.parabola.nu/ | https://www.emacs.org/ Free Software -- Free Society! From drew at dangerfields.ca Fri Jul 13 06:59:32 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 22:59:32 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflict Message-ID: <1649239170c.1153afb9e86229.5579404691234522539@dangerfields.ca> drew at drew-asus: ~ $ sudo pacman -Rsc octopi-notifier [sudo] password for drew: checking dependencies... :: octopi optionally requires octopi-notifier: for notifications warning: dependency cycle detected: warning: phonon-qt5-gstreamer will be removed after its phonon-qt5 dependency Packages (12) kcodecs-5.46.0-1? kconfig-5.46.0-1? kcoreaddons-5.46.0-1 ????????????? knotifications-5.46.0-1? kwindowsystem-5.46.0-1 ????????????? libdbusmenu-qt5-0.9.3+16.04.20160218-1? phonon-qt5-4.10.1-1 ????????????? phonon-qt5-gstreamer-4.9.0-4? qt5-multimedia-5.11.0-1 ????????????? qt5-speech-5.11.0-1? qt5-x11extras-5.11.0-1 ????????????? octopi-notifier-0.8.1-4.parabola2 Total Removed Size:? 17.99 MiB :: Do you want to remove these packages? [Y/n] Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettg at posteo.net Fri Jul 13 07:03:59 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 01:03:59 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflict In-Reply-To: <1649239170c.1153afb9e86229.5579404691234522539@dangerfields.ca> References: <1649239170c.1153afb9e86229.5579404691234522539@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <9b6de4c7-4f66-3378-d241-900e37e4e040@posteo.net> On 07/13/2018 12:59 AM, Drew wrote: > drew at drew-asus: ~ > $ sudo pacman -Rsc octopi-notifier > [sudo] password for drew: > checking dependencies... > :: octopi optionally requires octopi-notifier: for notifications > warning: dependency cycle detected: > warning: phonon-qt5-gstreamer will be removed after its phonon-qt5 > dependency > > Packages (12) kcodecs-5.46.0-1? kconfig-5.46.0-1? kcoreaddons-5.46.0-1 > ????????????? knotifications-5.46.0-1? kwindowsystem-5.46.0-1 > ????????????? libdbusmenu-qt5-0.9.3+16.04.20160218-1? phonon-qt5-4.10.1-1 > ????????????? phonon-qt5-gstreamer-4.9.0-4? qt5-multimedia-5.11.0-1 > ????????????? qt5-speech-5.11.0-1? qt5-x11extras-5.11.0-1 > ????????????? octopi-notifier-0.8.1-4.parabola2 > > Total Removed Size:? 17.99 MiB > > :: Do you want to remove these packages? [Y/n] > Drew. This is indeed a bug, check out the octopi pkgbuild here: https://git.parabola.nu/abslibre.git/tree/pcr/octopi/PKGBUILD conflicts=('octopi' 'octopi-notifier' 'octopi-repoeditor' 'octopi-cachecleaner' 'octopi-pacmanhelper' 'octopi-git' 'octopi-kde-git') Please submit a bug report on the issue tracker. https://labs.parabola.nu/projects/issue-tracker/issues?set_filter=1&tracker_id=1 -- Brett Gilio brettg at posteo.net | bmg at member.fsf.org https://www.parabola.nu/ | https://www.emacs.org/ Free Software -- Free Society! From drew at dangerfields.ca Fri Jul 13 07:10:58 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 23:10:58 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts Message-ID: <16492438d53.b0cdf24987421.3454263447142676050@dangerfields.ca> I will submit a bug report but in the meantime the Octopi dependency conflict seems to be preventing me from doing any updates.? Is there a work around? Regards, Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettg at posteo.net Fri Jul 13 07:18:14 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 01:18:14 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <16492438d53.b0cdf24987421.3454263447142676050@dangerfields.ca> References: <16492438d53.b0cdf24987421.3454263447142676050@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <883b7cc9-aa30-de83-4381-8a03cdb7653a@posteo.net> On 07/13/2018 01:10 AM, Drew wrote: > I will submit a bug report but in the meantime the Octopi dependency > conflict seems to be preventing me from doing any updates.? Is there a > work around? Try the -Rsc flag on octopi-notifier and make sure that octopi is completely removed and see if that at least allows you to upgrade. Or, you can declare the package to be ignored in /etc/pacman.conf Please link the bug report in this email group so I can check on the status of it tomorrow. -- Brett Gilio brettg at posteo.net | bmg at member.fsf.org https://www.parabola.nu/ | https://www.emacs.org/ Free Software -- Free Society! From drew at dangerfields.ca Fri Jul 13 07:20:55 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 23:20:55 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Message-ID: <164924cad34.adb9054499616.283176718796280475@dangerfields.ca> Alright, we can pick this up tomorrow.? Thanks very much for your help.? Goodnight. Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Fri Jul 13 18:42:02 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 10:42:02 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts - Bug Report Message-ID: <16494bc4088.115ac31a217559.4739445814002305567@dangerfields.ca> https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1886 Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettg at posteo.net Fri Jul 13 18:47:45 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 12:47:45 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts - Bug Report In-Reply-To: <16494bc4088.115ac31a217559.4739445814002305567@dangerfields.ca> References: <16494bc4088.115ac31a217559.4739445814002305567@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: On 07/13/2018 12:42 PM, Drew wrote: > https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1886 > > /*Drew*/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Assist mailing list > Assist at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/assist > Got the notification for it in IRC. Thank you. -- Brett Gilio brettg at posteo.net | bmg at member.fsf.org https://www.parabola.nu/ | https://www.emacs.org/ Free Software -- Free Society! From drew at dangerfields.ca Fri Jul 13 19:38:07 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:38:07 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts - More Issues Message-ID: <16494ef99f4.12785a4fd22972.6758745835515446598@dangerfields.ca> I succeeded in getting the Octopi group of packages removed entirely from my system.? However, pacman -Su now returns that there are two corrupt files that are preventing system upgrades.? See attachment. Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TermReturnCorruptFiles Type: application/octet-stream Size: 5990 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Fri Jul 13 19:47:17 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 13:47:17 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts - More Issues In-Reply-To: <16494ef99f4.12785a4fd22972.6758745835515446598@dangerfields.ca> References: <16494ef99f4.12785a4fd22972.6758745835515446598@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: On 07/13/2018 01:38 PM, Drew wrote: > I succeeded in getting the Octopi group of packages removed entirely > from my system.? However, pacman -Su now returns that there are two > corrupt files that are preventing system upgrades.? See attachment. Drew, you need to refresh your PGP keyring so that Bill's keys match your local ring. Please see, https://wiki.parabola.nu/Parabola_Keyring -- Brett Gilio brettg at posteo.net | bmg at member.fsf.org https://www.parabola.nu/ | https://www.emacs.org/ Free Software -- Free Society! From drew at dangerfields.ca Fri Jul 13 20:31:49 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 12:31:49 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts - More Issues Message-ID: <1649520c39d.c68fecfe29195.9167303335287677980@dangerfields.ca> Thanks.? I ran those commands from the wiki and successfully refreshed the keyring but those same two files are coming back with Bill's signature as "unknown trust" and the entire upgrade is aborted. error: abiword: signature from "bill-auger " is unknown trust :: File /var/cache/pacman/pkg/abiword-3.0.2-8.parabola1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz is corrupted (invalid or corrupted package (PGP signature)) error: mkinicpio-openswap: signature from "bill-auger " is unknown trust :: File /var/cache/pacman/pkg/mkinitcpio-openswap-0.1.1-1-any.pkg.tar.xz Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettg at posteo.net Fri Jul 13 20:43:49 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 14:43:49 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts - More Issues In-Reply-To: <1649520c39d.c68fecfe29195.9167303335287677980@dangerfields.ca> References: <1649520c39d.c68fecfe29195.9167303335287677980@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: On 07/13/2018 02:31 PM, Drew wrote: > Thanks.? I ran those commands from the wiki and successfully refreshed > the keyring but those same two files are coming back with Bill's > signature as "unknown trust" and the entire upgrade is aborted. > > error: abiword: signature from "bill-auger >" is unknown trust > :: File > /var/cache/pacman/pkg/abiword-3.0.2-8.parabola1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz is > corrupted (invalid or corrupted package (PGP signature)) > > error: mkinicpio-openswap: signature from "bill-auger > >" is > unknown trust > :: File /var/cache/pacman/pkg/mkinitcpio-openswap-0.1.1-1-any.pkg.tar.xz > > /*Drew*/ > Clear your package cache. -- Brett Gilio brettg at posteo.net | bmg at member.fsf.org https://www.parabola.nu/ | https://www.emacs.org/ Free Software -- Free Society! From drew at dangerfields.ca Fri Jul 13 21:57:51 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 13:57:51 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts - More Issues Message-ID: <164956f8675.1252910f638045.8165348064094780106@dangerfields.ca> Thanks.?? I ran sudo pacman -Sc and then -Syu and still got the same output for the same two files Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettg at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 00:32:40 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 18:32:40 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts - More Issues In-Reply-To: <1649520c39d.c68fecfe29195.9167303335287677980@dangerfields.ca> References: <1649520c39d.c68fecfe29195.9167303335287677980@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <8736wmlnjb.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > Thanks. I ran those commands from the wiki and successfully > refreshed > the keyring but those same two files are coming back with Bill's > signature as "unknown trust" and the entire upgrade is aborted. > error: > abiword: signature from "bill-auger > " is > unknown trust :: File > /var/cache/pacman/pkg/abiword-3.0.2-8.parabola1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz > is > corrupted (invalid or corrupted package (PGP signature)) error: > mkinicpio-openswap: signature from "bill-auger > " is unknown trust :: File > /var/cache/pacman/pkg/mkinitcpio-openswap-0.1.1-1-any.pkg.tar.xz > Drew_________________ Drew, out of curiosity, and not that it matters but are you running Parabola from a fresh ISO or from a migration from Manjaro? -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From bill-auger at peers.community Sat Jul 14 01:20:04 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 20:20:04 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: References: <16492196660.b5a0f06283155.5475348357258803852@dangerfields.ca> <8979838a-f46c-d677-0260-d3b296f34e52@posteo.net> <164922aa547.cac5993884774.5251244314407372181@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <20180713202004.ead3c1425f258f2ec69d505f@peers.community> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:47:22 -0500 Brett Gilio wrote: > P.S. you replied off list, please respond on list. i think drew replied directly to me on another thread too drew - be sure to press "reply to all" or even better: "reply to list" if your client has those buttons -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Sat Jul 14 01:24:07 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 17:24:07 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts Message-ID: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> Bill & Brett:? I don't have "Reply to List" in my email (zoho) but I can "Reply to All".? Will that be enough? Drew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill-auger at peers.community Sat Jul 14 01:24:15 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 20:24:15 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <16492196660.b5a0f06283155.5475348357258803852@dangerfields.ca> References: <16492196660.b5a0f06283155.5475348357258803852@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <20180713202415.c3303e6db2cdb2767244a265@peers.community> On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 22:24:55 -0700 Drew wrote: > Remove octopi-notifier? n you need to answer Y to all of those octopi-notifier and the others are all included in the single 'octopi' package now -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 01:30:10 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:30:10 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > Bill & Brett: I don't have "Reply to List" in my email (zoho) > but I > can "Reply to All". Will that be enough? > Drew______________________________________ That should be enough. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From freemor at freemor.ca Sat Jul 14 01:48:27 2018 From: freemor at freemor.ca (Freemor) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 21:48:27 -0300 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <20180714004827.GH5142@freemor.ca> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 07:30:10PM -0500, Brett Gilio wrote: > > Drew writes: > > >Bill & Brett: I don't have "Reply to List" in my email (zoho) but > >I > >can "Reply to All". Will that be enough? > >Drew______________________________________ > > That should be enough. > I just checked and this list (and probably all the others) have no Reply-to: header. Having one that is pointed back to the list would solve this as then "reply" would always got to the list. (save for very botched MUA). Most listserves have an option someplace to set this. I've never admined mailman but given its prevalence I'd be surprised if it did not have the feature. Setting that up would definitely make life easier for those new to listservs or who have newer MUAs that never thought about listservs. -- Want to send me an encrypted reply? Click here: https://hawkpost.co/box/e414d311-bd6a-4429-8e9e-6a690d5ad034 The rest of my contact details are at: https://freemor.ca/contact -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From brettg at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 01:49:22 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:49:22 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Octopi Conflicts - More Issues References: <1649520c39d.c68fecfe29195.9167303335287677980@dangerfields.ca> <8736wmlnjb.fsf@posteo.net> <1649614337b.1249d530848335.3991587119084529798@dangerfields.ca> <87d0vqbqzy.fsf@posteo.net> <16496414774.db583c9d49490.6475333335884273418@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <87k1pyfxpp.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > Brett: I did not receive any keyring error messages during > installation. I mentioned in an earlier email that in all my > installation attempts (including the last, successful one) I > have been receiving a pink highlighted FAIL message: failed to > start dhcpcd on wlp2s0 Bill: Yes, I did enter Y at each prompt > regarding one of the components of the Octopi package. I did try > entering N but that just aborted the upgrade procedure on the > spot. So I entered Y each time and the upgrade proceeded, > apparently normally, to the very end where it referred to the > two error files I have identified earlier and then aborted the > upgrade without installing anything. Regards, Drew ---- On Fri, > 13 Jul 2018 17:28:01 -0700Brett Gilio wrote > ---- Drew writes: > Fresh "complete" .iso (not the netinstall) > downloaded yesterday > (Jul > 12-18). You did not receive any > keyring errors during the installation? I assume not. I don't > know much about the Calamares-based installer, but I'd think > that'd throw you an error and trigger an exit before the > bootloader was installed and configured. I could be wrong. Maybe > Bill can chime in. P.S. You responded off list again, please > make sure to reply to all or reply to list in your client. From brettg at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 01:50:55 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:50:55 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <20180714004827.GH5142@freemor.ca> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180714004827.GH5142@freemor.ca> Message-ID: <87in5ifxn4.fsf@posteo.net> Freemor writes: > Most listserves have an option someplace to set this. I've never > admined > mailman but given its prevalence I'd be surprised if it did not > have the > feature. > I know for a fact that Mailman has this option. The Emacs mailing list has it listed in every return email. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From bill-auger at peers.community Sat Jul 14 01:52:37 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 20:52:37 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:30:10 -0500 Brett Gilio wrote: > > Drew writes: > > > Bill & Brett: I don't have "Reply to List" in my email (zoho) > > but I can "Reply to All". Will that be enough? > > That should be enough. indeed more than enough :) drew my key really did expire today - i renewed it probably after you tried - this one command shuold set it right now sudo pacman-key --refresh -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 01:54:49 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:54:49 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> Message-ID: <87h8l2fxgm.fsf@posteo.net> bill-auger writes: > drew my key really did expire today - i renewed it probably > after you tried - this one command shuold set it right now Such a weird thing, because I tried replicating his commands and they were working. Strange! -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From bill-auger at peers.community Sat Jul 14 01:55:40 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 20:55:40 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <20180714004827.GH5142@freemor.ca> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180714004827.GH5142@freemor.ca> Message-ID: <20180713205540.51015691f86a04ade1171bf4@peers.community> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 21:48:27 -0300 Freemor wrote: > I just checked and this list (and probably all the others) have no Reply-to: > header. Having one that is pointed back to the list would solve this as then > "reply" would always got to the list. (save for very botched MUA). open a bug report about that on the "servers" tracker - maybe someone will look into it -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Sat Jul 14 02:10:46 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 18:10:46 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> Message-ID: <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> No such luck.? sudo pacman-key --refresh executed with no apparent problems sudo pacman -Syu returned exactly the same two error packages as previously mentioned. Drew ---- On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 17:52:37 -0700?bill-auger wrote ---- On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:30:10 -0500 Brett Gilio wrote: > > Drew writes: > > > Bill & Brett: I don't have "Reply to List" in my email (zoho) > > but I can "Reply to All". Will that be enough? > > That should be enough. indeed more than enough :) drew my key really did expire today - i renewed it probably after you tried - this one command shuold set it right now sudo pacman-key --refresh _______________________________________________ Assist mailing list Assist at lists.parabola.nu https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/assist -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettg at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 02:13:01 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 20:13:01 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > No such luck. sudo pacman-key --refresh executed with no > apparent > problems sudo pacman -Syu returned exactly the same two error > packages > as previously mentioned. Drew Drew, you need to clear your cache again. When you download packages, you download the expected keypair with them. Clear the cache again, make sure the keyring is up to date, and then pacman -Syyu in one go. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From drew at dangerfields.ca Sat Jul 14 02:21:08 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 18:21:08 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> I had previously run the command Bill gave to update and refresh the keyring. I ran sudo pacman -Sc to clear the package cache I ran sudo pacman -Syyu to upgrade And got the same two error messages regarding abiword and mkinitcpio packages. Maybe I just have to do another installation? Drew ---- On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 18:13:01 -0700?Brett Gilio wrote ---- Drew writes: > No such luck. sudo pacman-key --refresh executed with no > apparent > problems sudo pacman -Syu returned exactly the same two error > packages > as previously mentioned. Drew Drew, you need to clear your cache again. When you download packages, you download the expected keypair with them. Clear the cache again, make sure the keyring is up to date, and then pacman -Syyu in one go. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettg at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 02:24:40 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 20:24:40 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <87bmbahanb.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > I had previously run the command Bill gave to update and refresh > the > keyring. I ran sudo pacman -Sc to clear the package cache I ran > sudo > pacman -Syyu to upgrade And got the same two error messages > regarding > abiword and mkinitcpio packages. Maybe I just have to do another > installation? Probably not. Do the whole process in a clean terminal, starting with clearing the cache, and send us the log. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From drew at dangerfields.ca Sat Jul 14 02:43:53 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 18:43:53 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <87bmbahanb.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbahanb.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <1649675655e.b009fa2b51822.8274053135855430972@dangerfields.ca> Log attached as requested. Drew ---- On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 18:24:40 -0700?Brett Gilio wrote ---- Drew writes: > I had previously run the command Bill gave to update and refresh > the > keyring. I ran sudo pacman -Sc to clear the package cache I ran > sudo > pacman -Syyu to upgrade And got the same two error messages > regarding > abiword and mkinitcpio packages. Maybe I just have to do another > installation? Probably not. Do the whole process in a clean terminal, starting with clearing the cache, and send us the log. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FullProcess Type: application/octet-stream Size: 43618 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bill-auger at peers.community Sat Jul 14 03:21:23 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 22:21:23 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <20180713222123.6cd8cd405d289d2ec851a6cb@peers.community> sry i did not publish it properly - i just checked with pacman it is working now but FYI, no one mentioned this but key-servers are federated and it takes some time for keys to propogate throughout the network - i just sent it to the MIT server - if you use this command exactly you should get the update now: sudo pacman-key --refresh-keys --keyserver pgp.mit.edu 25DB7D9B5A8D4B40 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Sat Jul 14 03:34:54 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:34:54 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <20180713222123.6cd8cd405d289d2ec851a6cb@peers.community> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> <20180713222123.6cd8cd405d289d2ec851a6cb@peers.community> Message-ID: <16496a419b3.e8276e9455810.9194591748280203525@dangerfields.ca> That did the trick! Thank you very much to you and Brett for sticking with this and helping me to work through it. Very much appreciated :) In answer to your previous question, I use Zoho webmail and it has never caused a problem (of which I have been made aware) in any other context. I have been sending emails in rich text mode. Would it be better if I used plain text mode for this list? Thanks again and regards, Drew ---- On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:21:23 -0700 bill-auger wrote ---- > sry i did not publish it properly - i just checked with pacman it is working now > > but FYI, no one mentioned this but key-servers are federated and it takes some time for keys to propogate throughout the network - i just sent it to the MIT server - if you use this command exactly you should get the update now: > > sudo pacman-key --refresh-keys --keyserver pgp.mit.edu 25DB7D9B5A8D4B40 > From brettg at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 03:47:31 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 21:47:31 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <16496a419b3.e8276e9455810.9194591748280203525@dangerfields.ca> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> <20180713222123.6cd8cd405d289d2ec851a6cb@peers.community> <16496a419b3.e8276e9455810.9194591748280203525@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <8736wmttx8.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > That did the trick! Thank you very much to you and Brett for > sticking > with this and helping me to work through it. Very much > appreciated :) I am really happy you got this figured out. > In answer to your previous question, I use Zoho webmail and it > has never caused a problem (of which I have been made aware) in > any other context. I have been sending emails in rich text > mode. Would it be better if I used plain text mode for this > list? Plaintext is always cheaper on resources, and is generally preferred for free-software mailing lists. Some lists even mandate it. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From bill-auger at peers.community Sat Jul 14 03:55:27 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 22:55:27 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <16496a419b3.e8276e9455810.9194591748280203525@dangerfields.ca> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> <20180713222123.6cd8cd405d289d2ec851a6cb@peers.community> <16496a419b3.e8276e9455810.9194591748280203525@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <20180713225527.1b88ddf84088ff5e33fd3c59@peers.community> On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:34:54 -0700 Drew wrote: > I have been sending emails in rich text mode. Would it be better if I used plain text mode for this list? yes - your last message looked much better - plain text is best for all mailing lists -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Sat Jul 14 05:57:09 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 21:57:09 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <20180713225527.1b88ddf84088ff5e33fd3c59@peers.community> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> <20180713222123.6cd8cd405d289d2ec851a6cb@peers.community> <16496a419b3.e8276e9455810.9194591748280203525@dangerfields.ca> <20180713225527.1b88ddf84088ff5e33fd3c59@peers.community> Message-ID: <1649726560c.129d6211e59848.1650137828736693146@dangerfields.ca> Thanks. Got it for future reference. Drew ---- On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:55:27 -0700 bill-auger wrote ---- > On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 19:34:54 -0700 Drew wrote: > > > I have been sending emails in rich text mode. Would it be better if I used plain text mode for this list? > > yes - your last message looked much better - plain text is best for all mailing lists > _______________________________________________ > Assist mailing list > Assist at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/assist > From brettg at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 06:15:25 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 00:15:25 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Octopi Conflicts In-Reply-To: <1649726560c.129d6211e59848.1650137828736693146@dangerfields.ca> References: <164962c5e72.12137512148999.6735188509966478482@dangerfields.ca> <87bmbabqwd.fsf@posteo.net> <20180713205237.02006e99807f464439e245fd@peers.community> <164965712aa.c48ae1b150032.7882373142564256071@dangerfields.ca> <87k1py39ia.fsf@posteo.net> <164966091c1.df583f1750223.8345544032812935723@dangerfields.ca> <20180713222123.6cd8cd405d289d2ec851a6cb@peers.community> <16496a419b3.e8276e9455810.9194591748280203525@dangerfields.ca> <20180713225527.1b88ddf84088ff5e33fd3c59@peers.community> <1649726560c.129d6211e59848.1650137828736693146@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <87601i1jpu.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > Thanks. Got it for future reference. This email list thing is a learning curve, with a heap ton of unspoken rules. Generally, guidelines are to append your statements to the bottom (except in some lists), keep your signatures less than five lines (except in some lists), reply to all (in /every/ list), do not use rich-text or HTML (except in some lists, usually those that use Google as their provider (I do not know why Racket insists on this, when they used to use Mailman), erase any trailing whitespace or unnecessary detail (except in some lists), so on. You will get the hang of it. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From bill-auger at peers.community Sun Jul 15 21:04:27 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:04:27 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> an email message from RMS regarding his opinion on the 'telegram-desktop' program was forwarded recently to the parabola mailing list[1] - i would like to ask dr stallman a follow-up question firstly, let me say that the telegram service could easily be considered to be a SaaSS because GNU-ring (and many others) can accomplish every task that telegram can (and more) without any proprietary mediator - indeed, this requires all peers to operate as a server; but at least that server is free software and is running on your machine; and the remote servers that you interact with are presumably operated by semi-trusted personal acquaintances who are presumably running that same free software server on their machines - so perhaps, by its nature of being a service, it is not precisely a substitute for passive software; but it is clearly a proprietary remote substitute service for a free software service that could be running on your own machine - perhaps a new acronym should be coined: PSaaFSS - Proprietary Service as a Free Service Substitute that aside, the important concern that i would like to address is this: even if the telegram service is not a substitute for your own computing, and therefore the free client should not be judged on the merits of the proprietary server; still, the service itself should be judged by the same sort of "ethical" criteria as code forges such as github and media hosts such as youtube - this has been discussed on IRC and i was told that the telegram server routinely sends minified javascript to the client to be executed - i have not verified this, but i would like to ask dr stallman: if that could be shown to be indeed how it operates, wouldn't that cross the line you have drawn here? - would it make a difference if those minified scripts were intrinsic to it's core functionality; or something optional that could theoretically be removed from the free client without breaking it, but is yet to be removed? - even if that were acceptable, and the obvious privacy concerns aside, the service would not be considered to be very "ethical" by the same standards being applied to code forges; so users should be discouraged from using such a service just as any others setting "the javascript trap" - yes? i ask because this scenario is not peculiar to this one program - it has graced the door of parabola before and surely will again in the form of some "integrated" webby things of tomorrow - that the new buzz-word euphemism as i hear it for putting javascript on the desktop: its "integrated" [1]: https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/assist/2018-July/001141.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Sun Jul 15 21:13:29 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 15:13:29 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> References: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> Message-ID: <87wotwtfyu.fsf@posteo.net> bill-auger writes: > an email message from RMS regarding his opinion on the > 'telegram-desktop' program was forwarded recently to the > parabola mailing list[1] - i would like to ask dr stallman a > follow-up question > > firstly, let me say that the telegram service could easily be > considered to be a SaaSS because GNU-ring (and many others) can > accomplish every task that telegram can (and more) without any > proprietary mediator - indeed, this requires all peers to > operate as a > server; but at least that server is free software and is running > on > your machine; and the remote servers that you interact with are > presumably operated by semi-trusted personal acquaintances who > are > presumably running that same free software server on their > machines - > so perhaps, by its nature of being a service, it is not > precisely a > substitute for passive software; but it is clearly a proprietary > remote substitute service for a free software service that could > be > running on your own machine - perhaps a new acronym should be > coined: > PSaaFSS - Proprietary Service as a Free Service Substitute Not only ring, but also older technologies like XMPP. > > that aside, the important concern that i would like to address > is this: even if the telegram service is not a substitute for > your own computing, and therefore the free client should not be > judged on the merits of the proprietary server; still, the > service itself should be judged by the same sort of "ethical" > criteria as code forges such as github and media hosts such as > youtube - this has been discussed on IRC and i was told that the > telegram server routinely sends minified javascript to the > client to be executed - i have not verified this, but i would > like to ask dr stallman: if that could be shown to be indeed how > it operates, wouldn't that cross the line you have drawn here? - > would it make a difference if those minified scripts were > intrinsic to it's core functionality; or something optional that > could theoretically be removed from the free client without > breaking it, but is yet to be removed? - even if that were > acceptable, and the obvious privacy concerns aside, the service > would not be considered to be very "ethical" by the same > standards being applied to code forges; so users should be > discouraged from using such a service just as any others setting > "the javascript trap" - yes? > > i ask because this scenario is not peculiar to this one program > - it > has graced the door of parabola before and surely will again in > the > form of some "integrated" webby things of tomorrow - that the > new > buzz-word euphemism as i hear it for putting javascript on the > desktop: its "integrated" I'll put together a response message to RMS to follow up, and i'll send it to you on the list before sending it to him. I will also Cc the list in my message to him. Does that sound okay? -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Mon Jul 16 01:23:25 2018 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 19:23:25 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> References: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> Message-ID: <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> bill-auger wrote : > GNU-ring (and many others) can accomplish every task that telegram > can (and more) without any proprietary mediator just "mediator". RMS is right to point out that we should drop the "proprietary" qualifier when it comes to services, since even a free copy of a middle-man program could be (re)programmed to mess with clients. on the technical side, there's actually one feature P2P IM programs like GNU Ring or Tox can't accomplish (yet) but server-client analogues can: offline messages. that said, i would claim that every other feature amenable to a P2P solution is unnecessarily seizing control from users (whether the server software is proprietary or not), and therefore makes it SaaSS. since our community doesn't see XMPP and IRC clients as problematic additions to our repositories, we probably have no standing to take away free clients that communicate with proprietary servers, like telegram. > -- Isaac David GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943 Ring: c8ba5620e080bef9470efb314c257304ff9480f5 Tox: 0C730E0156E96E6193A1445D413557FF5F277BA969A4EA20AC9352889D3B390E77651E816F0C From bill-auger at peers.community Mon Jul 16 02:22:03 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 21:22:03 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <20180715212203.a6c4ca7b79a0568c39764025@peers.community> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 19:23:25 -0500 Isaac wrote: > GNU Ring or Tox can't accomplish (yet) > offline messages. ring is working on offline messages for their next release - i have not asked how it will be implememted - maybe on the blockchain? the main issue with a mediator is of course, privacy more than freedom - as for the FSDG, the more important concern is the issue of the server sending scripts willy-nilly to clients - that is a trend that is likely to continue and grow in the future - a practice that it is probably safe to say the original creators of the good 'ol IRC, email, XMPP protocols would have considered as insideous -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Mon Jul 16 02:52:07 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 20:52:07 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <87pnzoc5h4.fsf@posteo.net> Isaac David writes: > since our community doesn't see XMPP and IRC clients as > problematic > additions to our repositories, we probably have no standing to > take > away free clients that communicate with proprietary servers, > like > telegram. Isaac, I understand everything you say up to this point, though the details still seem circumstantial to me. However, could you explain to me the point of comparison between XMPP/IRC and Telegram? Are you suggesting that XMPP/IRC work by interfacing with a proprietary server-side protocol? If not, help me understand what you mean. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From brettg at posteo.net Mon Jul 16 02:59:07 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 20:59:07 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: <20180715212203.a6c4ca7b79a0568c39764025@peers.community> References: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <20180715212203.a6c4ca7b79a0568c39764025@peers.community> Message-ID: <87o9f8c55g.fsf@posteo.net> bill-auger writes: > ring is working on offline messages for their next release - i > have > not asked how it will be implememted - maybe on the blockchain? I am not aware of the specifics, either. But I was under the impression that even XMPP has an asynchronous messaging feature. Maybe I am mistaken. > the main issue with a mediator is of course, privacy more than > freedom > - as for the FSDG, the more important concern is the issue of > the > server sending scripts willy-nilly to clients - that is a trend > that > is likely to continue and grow in the future - a practice that > it is > probably safe to say the original creators of the good 'ol IRC, > email, > XMPP protocols would have considered as insideous The orthogonal point to this could be made for youtube-dl. Although the FSF has corrected their former statement of youtube-dl fetching and executing non-free JS to fetching and parsing non-free JS, the case of Telegram here is sort of under the same umbrella. If Telegram works to communicate with a server that runs software that is freedom restricting by the nature of the service (although, I will concede that RMS is correct in stating that a service should not be judged by the ability of a user to audit its contents), I wonder if Telegram falls under the guidelines of what the FSF would consider ethical. In an alternate dimension, the point here would be moot because Telegram would not work in such a way. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From bill-auger at peers.community Mon Jul 16 05:20:27 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 00:20:27 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: <87pnzoc5h4.fsf@posteo.net> References: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <87pnzoc5h4.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <20180716002027.c881c5e150cce0df00ab0737@peers.community> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 20:52:07 -0500 Brett wrote: > However, could you explain to me the point of comparison between > XMPP/IRC and Telegram? Are you suggesting that XMPP/IRC work by > interfacing with a proprietary server-side protocol? it's exactly the opposite of that - email/IRC/XMPP servers communicate with client using a well-established, publicly published protocol and all messages are purely passive data - none of these send code instructions that are to be executed blindly on the client the clients for these services will only ever run their own code, and only in response to the local user or to network messages that the client is prepared to handle in a predictable way - if the server sends some message that the client is not prepared to handle, then the client will probably just ignore it; so there is little to nothing that a rogue server could do to trick a client into doing something that the user did not want to happen - if it can, then that is probably a security bug in the client i do not know if the telegram client actually does send scripts to the client nor what the client does with them - that was a question that i posed on IRC and someone confirmed my suspicion that it did behave that way; but even so, that one particular program is only an example - my question to RMS should be considered to be a hypothetical one - i can not actually name any such program off-hand, but the electron platform is ripe and ready for it - another popular platform named: 'gnome' is said to do this with what is called: "integrating web 'apps' with the desktop"; and there will probably be many more of them coming in the future, so i thought it was worth asking -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Mon Jul 16 05:51:32 2018 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 23:51:32 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: <87pnzoc5h4.fsf@posteo.net> References: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <87pnzoc5h4.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <1531716692.1711.2@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Brett Gilio wrote: > However, could you explain to me the point of comparison between > XMPP/IRC and Telegram? Are you suggesting that XMPP/IRC work by > interfacing with a proprietary server-side protocol? not at all. i'm just repeating a fact established at [1]; namely, that you as a user of a network service shouldn't mind if the third-party server is running free software (when it comes to trusting its behaviour). all else being equal, you are just as helplessly at the mercy of the server in both cases. there are good reasons for preferring documented protocols with full free software implementations (like running an instance yourself or with friends), but retaining control of your computing is not one of them in general. e.g., the third-party XMPP server you connect to could deny you service, retain and expose your data, etc. for the record, of course telegram is below something like XMPP in my "nice IM protocols" list. [1]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html -- Isaac David GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943 Ring: c8ba5620e080bef9470efb314c257304ff9480f5 Tox: 0C730E0156E96E6193A1445D413557FF5F277BA969A4EA20AC9352889D3B390E77651E816F0C From rudolf.dovicin at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 09:36:10 2018 From: rudolf.dovicin at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UnVkb2xmIERvdmnEjcOtbg==?=) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 10:36:10 +0200 Subject: [Assist] pacman --overwrite does not work Message-ID: Hello, dear supporters. :-) I follow instructions for upgrade: https://parabola.nu/news/libutf8proc211-3-update-requires-manual-intervention/ But it does not work. Every order of arguments: pacman -Syu --overwrite "/usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2" pacman --overwrite "/usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2" -Syu pacman --overwrite "/usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2" -Syu --overwrite "/usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2" gives the same error: error: failed to commit transaction (conflicting files) libutf8proc: /usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2 exists in filesystem Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded. Please, where is the problem? -- Rudolf Dovi??n Matice slovenskej 1260/4-7 957 04 B?novce nad Bebravou 4 SLOVENSKO mailto:Rudolf.Dovicin at Gmail.com (cellular: +421 940 872 846, short messages only) From freemor at freemor.ca Mon Jul 16 11:47:02 2018 From: freemor at freemor.ca (Freemor) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 07:47:02 -0300 Subject: [Assist] pacman --overwrite does not work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180716104702.GA21421@freemor.ca> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 10:36:10AM +0200, Rudolf Dovi??n wrote: > Hello, dear supporters. :-) > > I follow instructions for upgrade: > https://parabola.nu/news/libutf8proc211-3-update-requires-manual-intervention/ > But it does not work. > > Every order of arguments: > pacman -Syu --overwrite "/usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2" > pacman --overwrite "/usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2" -Syu > pacman --overwrite "/usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2" -Syu --overwrite > "/usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2" > > gives the same error: > error: failed to commit transaction (conflicting files) > libutf8proc: /usr/lib/libutf8proc.so.2 exists in filesystem > Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded. > > Please, where is the problem? The problem is a simple one. You do not specify what to overwrite. The --overwrite flag just tell pacman it is ok to overwrite anything it needs to. so just sudo pacman -Suy --overwrite -- Want to send me an encrypted reply? Click here: https://hawkpost.co/box/e414d311-bd6a-4429-8e9e-6a690d5ad034 The rest of my contact details are at: https://freemor.ca/contact -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rudolf.dovicin at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 14:05:49 2018 From: rudolf.dovicin at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UnVkb2xmIERvdmnEjcOtbg==?=) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 15:05:49 +0200 Subject: [Assist] pacman --overwrite does not work In-Reply-To: <20180716104702.GA21421@freemor.ca> References: <20180716104702.GA21421@freemor.ca> Message-ID: 2018-07-16 12:47 GMT+02:00 Freemor : > The problem is a simple one. You do not specify what to overwrite. The > --overwrite flag just tell pacman it is ok to overwrite anything it needs to. > > so just > > sudo pacman -Suy --overwrite Thank you for you reply. But it does not work for me. I have got this error: pacman: option '--overwrite' requires an argument -- Rudolf Dovi??n Matice slovenskej 1260/4-7 957 04 B?novce nad Bebravou 4 SLOVENSKO mailto:Rudolf.Dovicin at Gmail.com (cellular: +421 940 872 846, short messages only) From freemor at freemor.ca Mon Jul 16 14:34:37 2018 From: freemor at freemor.ca (Freemor) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 10:34:37 -0300 Subject: [Assist] pacman --overwrite does not work In-Reply-To: References: <20180716104702.GA21421@freemor.ca> Message-ID: <20180716133437.GB21421@freemor.ca> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 03:05:49PM +0200, Rudolf Dovi??n wrote: > 2018-07-16 12:47 GMT+02:00 Freemor : > > The problem is a simple one. You do not specify what to overwrite. The > > --overwrite flag just tell pacman it is ok to overwrite anything it needs to. > > > > so just > > > > sudo pacman -Suy --overwrite > > Thank you for you reply. > But it does not work for me. > I have got this error: > pacman: option '--overwrite' requires an argument Sorry about that I thought was a replacement for force. Just: pacman -Suy --force That will fix the current issue. I'll look into the correct syntax for --overwrite when I'm back on an Parabola machine. -- Want to send me an encrypted reply? Click here: https://hawkpost.co/box/e414d311-bd6a-4429-8e9e-6a690d5ad034 The rest of my contact details are at: https://freemor.ca/contact -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rudolf.dovicin at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 14:45:48 2018 From: rudolf.dovicin at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UnVkb2xmIERvdmnEjcOtbg==?=) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 15:45:48 +0200 Subject: [Assist] pacman --overwrite does not work In-Reply-To: <20180716133437.GB21421@freemor.ca> References: <20180716104702.GA21421@freemor.ca> <20180716133437.GB21421@freemor.ca> Message-ID: 2018-07-16 15:34 GMT+02:00 Freemor : > Sorry about that I thought was a replacement for force. > > Just: > > pacman -Suy --force > > That will fix the current issue. I'll look into the correct syntax for > --overwrite when I'm back on an Parabola machine. I have used: pacman -Suy --overwrite '*' This works finally... -- Rudolf Dovi??n Matice slovenskej 1260/4-7 957 04 B?novce nad Bebravou 4 SLOVENSKO mailto:Rudolf.Dovicin at Gmail.com (cellular: +421 940 872 846, short messages only) From drew at dangerfields.ca Mon Jul 16 15:26:47 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 07:26:47 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Systemd Upgrade Questions Message-ID: <164a37c909e.d23c3a0212697.2168553756657677026@dangerfields.ca> When I ran this morning it returned the attached. Initially I entered Y and it then proceeded to another proposed file replacement and so on, I didn't undertand the intent or significance of what was going on so I eventually entered N and that aborted the upgrade. What does this mean? Should I accept all the proposed file replacements? Thank you. Drew -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: UpgradeJul16-18 Type: application/octet-stream Size: 313 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bill-auger at peers.community Mon Jul 16 18:53:00 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 13:53:00 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Systemd Upgrade Questions In-Reply-To: <164a37c909e.d23c3a0212697.2168553756657677026@dangerfields.ca> References: <164a37c909e.d23c3a0212697.2168553756657677026@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <20180716135300.ebd983042b3d7cc956b2ad30@peers.community> do the package names look similar to anything in this open bug? https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1891 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Mon Jul 16 20:26:22 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 12:26:22 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Systemd Upgrade Questions In-Reply-To: <20180716135300.ebd983042b3d7cc956b2ad30@peers.community> References: <164a37c909e.d23c3a0212697.2168553756657677026@dangerfields.ca> <20180716135300.ebd983042b3d7cc956b2ad30@peers.community> Message-ID: <164a48ed92e.fb73716858609.3563588893917371439@dangerfields.ca> Yes, they appear to be very similar. But I'm not using open-rc; I installed with systemd. Do you want me to run again and send you what it returns? Drew ---- On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 10:53:00 -0700 bill-auger wrote ---- > > do the package names look similar to anything in this open bug? > > https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1891 > _______________________________________________ > Assist mailing list > Assist at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/assist > From brettg at posteo.net Mon Jul 16 20:30:19 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 14:30:19 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Systemd Upgrade Questions In-Reply-To: <164a48ed92e.fb73716858609.3563588893917371439@dangerfields.ca> References: <164a37c909e.d23c3a0212697.2168553756657677026@dangerfields.ca> <20180716135300.ebd983042b3d7cc956b2ad30@peers.community> <164a48ed92e.fb73716858609.3563588893917371439@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <87in5f0yic.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > Yes, they appear to be very similar. But I'm not using open-rc; > I installed with systemd. > Do you want me to run again and send you what > it > returns? I got a similar result, Drew. The key was to select all of the packages which correspond to a systemd machine. Go ahead and send us a printed log. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From drew at dangerfields.ca Mon Jul 16 20:37:12 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 12:37:12 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Systemd Upgrade Questions In-Reply-To: <87in5f0yic.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164a37c909e.d23c3a0212697.2168553756657677026@dangerfields.ca> <20180716135300.ebd983042b3d7cc956b2ad30@peers.community> <164a48ed92e.fb73716858609.3563588893917371439@dangerfields.ca> <87in5f0yic.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <164a498c2a5.e7cf26ae60092.7729011920255785266@dangerfields.ca> Brett: Do you want a printed log of what transpired when I entered Y to each proposed change until the process aborts at the end, or Do you want a log of what happens if I enter Y only for the changes that relate to systemd? Or did I misunderstand you completely? Drew ---- On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 12:30:19 -0700 Brett Gilio wrote ---- > > Drew writes: > > > Yes, they appear to be very similar. But I'm not using open-rc; > > I installed with systemd. > > Do you want me to run again and send you what > > it > > returns? > > I got a similar result, Drew. The key was to select all of the > packages > which correspond to a systemd machine. Go ahead and send us a > printed > log. > > -- > Brett M. Gilio > Free Software Foundation, Member > https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org > From brettg at posteo.net Mon Jul 16 20:43:07 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 14:43:07 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Systemd Upgrade Questions In-Reply-To: <164a498c2a5.e7cf26ae60092.7729011920255785266@dangerfields.ca> References: <164a37c909e.d23c3a0212697.2168553756657677026@dangerfields.ca> <20180716135300.ebd983042b3d7cc956b2ad30@peers.community> <164a48ed92e.fb73716858609.3563588893917371439@dangerfields.ca> <87in5f0yic.fsf@posteo.net> <164a498c2a5.e7cf26ae60092.7729011920255785266@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <87h8kz0xx0.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > Brett: Do you want a printed log of what transpired when I > entered Y to each proposed change until the process aborts at > the end, or > Do you want a log of what happens if I enter Y only for the > changes that relate to systemd? > Or did I misunderstand you completely? If your system was like mine, you can press Y on everything until you get to the multi-package selection between the nonsystemd-devu or the systemd-devu package. Do not choose the nonsystemd one, then give us the output. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From drew at dangerfields.ca Mon Jul 16 21:18:49 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 13:18:49 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Systemd Upgrade Questions In-Reply-To: <87h8kz0xx0.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164a37c909e.d23c3a0212697.2168553756657677026@dangerfields.ca> <20180716135300.ebd983042b3d7cc956b2ad30@peers.community> <164a48ed92e.fb73716858609.3563588893917371439@dangerfields.ca> <87in5f0yic.fsf@posteo.net> <164a498c2a5.e7cf26ae60092.7729011920255785266@dangerfields.ca> <87h8kz0xx0.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <164a4bedc76.da27567672508.4762026789928385354@dangerfields.ca> Output attached. I wasn't ever presented with the choice/option you mention. All of the Y/N choices related to systemd so I entered Y to each and the upgrade proceeded with no apparent issues to a successful conclusion. I restarted my system and everything appears to be functioning correctly. The bug was fixed? Drew ---- On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 12:43:07 -0700 Brett Gilio wrote ---- > > Drew writes: > > > Brett: Do you want a printed log of what transpired when I > > entered Y to each proposed change until the process aborts at > > the end, or > > Do you want a log of what happens if I enter Y only for the > > changes that relate to systemd? > > Or did I misunderstand you completely? > > If your system was like mine, you can press Y on everything until > you > get to the multi-package selection between the nonsystemd-devu or > the > systemd-devu package. Do not choose the nonsystemd one, then give > us the output. > > -- > Brett M. Gilio > Free Software Foundation, Member > https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: UpgradeJul16-18(2) Type: application/octet-stream Size: 7001 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drew at dangerfields.ca Tue Jul 17 03:49:34 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 19:49:34 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Protonmail Message-ID: <164a6249ccf.ed6e23ae93147.2623408651965770377@dangerfields.ca> Have FSF or Parabola formed an opinion about this web mail service? It's encryption is somewhat important to me because of some part time confidential consulting work that I do and it does purport to be open source and appears to be stable. https://protonmail.com/ I currently use Zoho mail which does a very nice job of email and calendaring for my needs, and it does offer private branding but, of course: (a) its security is uncertain; (b) it is entirely proprietary; and (c) Zoho is fully in the business of SaaS with its suite of other apps aimed at small business and sole proprietors (which I don't use). Drew From brettg at posteo.net Tue Jul 17 05:02:44 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 23:02:44 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Protonmail In-Reply-To: <164a6249ccf.ed6e23ae93147.2623408651965770377@dangerfields.ca> References: <164a6249ccf.ed6e23ae93147.2623408651965770377@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <87in5eo6fv.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > Have FSF or Parabola formed an opinion about this web mail > service? It's encryption is somewhat important to me because of > some part time confidential consulting work that I do and it > does purport to be open source and appears to be stable. > > https://protonmail.com/ The FSF considers protonmail to be "under review" https://www.fsf.org/resources/webmail-systems Proton mail is purported to be licensed under the FSF-approved MIT license. However, there does seem to be some use of non-free Javascript. I can not comment on whether this non-free Javascript is limiting, as I do not know the details of whether they allow signups or their webclient without it, or what their stance is on POP3/IMAP for desktop clients /if/ their webmail does in fact require non-free Javascript. (That being said, be careful with extensions like LibreJS or NoScript, which while they do block selected Javascript there are some websites that offer Javascript-disabled rendering if your browser tells it that it does not support Javascript. (see about:config in IceCat, IceWeasel, Firefox, etc.) As far as their mobile applications are concerned, they are proprietary though I do not know if those are written by third-parties who use a protonmail API or if they are official. Lastly, make sure to review Protonmails terms of service on data collection. I am, again, not claiming any knowledge here but just want to make sure you are thorough when choosing your service. > > I currently use Zoho mail which does a very nice job of email > and > calendaring for my needs, and it does offer private branding > but, of > course: (a) its security is uncertain; (b) it is entirely > proprietary; and (c) Zoho is fully in the business of SaaS with > its > suite of other apps aimed at small business and sole proprietors > (which I don't use). Reject Zoho. IIRC they have a large contract with Yahoo! for some of their utilities, services, and possibly data storage. I could be misspeaking here, so fact check me. I do most of my email work while offline, so I am not checking this as I go. --- I use https://posteo.de/ for my email. They do not offer much storage space for mail, but it is more than enough if you aren't delivering attachments all the time. And it is libre, but not gratis. Finally, join us on IRC sometime. Freenode #parabola -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From bill-auger at peers.community Tue Jul 17 16:09:59 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:09:59 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Protonmail In-Reply-To: <87in5eo6fv.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164a6249ccf.ed6e23ae93147.2623408651965770377@dangerfields.ca> <87in5eo6fv.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <20180717110959.c7965ff6491ee83b21497a02@peers.community> * Brett has mastered the magic spell: "Offline Email" * Brett has unlocked the acheivement "Fosstopia Level 2" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Tue Jul 17 19:10:00 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:10:00 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: <20180716002027.c881c5e150cce0df00ab0737@peers.community> References: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <87pnzoc5h4.fsf@posteo.net> <20180716002027.c881c5e150cce0df00ab0737@peers.community> Message-ID: <87fu0hd98n.fsf@posteo.net> bill-auger writes: > my question to RMS should be considered to be a hypothetical one Have you heard from RMS yet? -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From rms at gnu.org Mon Jul 16 23:38:28 2018 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 18:38:28 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Fwd: Re: Telegram & Non-Free SaaSS In-Reply-To: <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> (message from Isaac David on Sun, 15 Jul 2018 19:23:25 -0500) References: <20180715160427.41cec146d64c4a2bad36dc52@peers.community> <1531700605.1711.1@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > since our community doesn't see XMPP and IRC clients as problematic > additions to our repositories, we probably have no standing to take > away free clients that communicate with proprietary servers, like > telegram. I basically agree with you, but this is a matter of what is right to do, not a matter of "standing". This is the FSF's directory, so the FSF can adopt any criteria. The directory's main purpose is to help people choose software that respects their freedom, so that's the basis we use for choosing the criteria. It would be a mistake to choose the strictest criteria we could imagine. We should reject programs that have an important ethical flaw, but rejecting all program for which some criticism could be made is too strict. For the reasons you've cited, we have no reason to treat XMPP and IRC servers differently from the Telegram server. We can list clients for any of them. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From somenxavier at posteo.net Sat Jul 14 23:23:25 2018 From: somenxavier at posteo.net (Xavier B.) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:23:25 +0200 Subject: [Assist] Unable to boot my parabola "error while loading shared libraries libjson-c.so.4" Message-ID: <20180715002325.3c935849f46ba7709893570c@posteo.net> After upgrading my system, I'm not be able to boot my system (see photo). It seems it's an issue with systemd. What can I do? After this shot, the keyboard does not respond. Any hints? Could I boot with USB-arch booting and reinstal?l some packages? How? Thanks in advance, PS: Yeah, I used --ignore in pacman -Syu but systemd should not be updated if it could not. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20180712_165204.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1189138 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Wed Jul 18 04:40:23 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 22:40:23 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Unable to boot my parabola "error while loading shared libraries libjson-c.so.4" In-Reply-To: <20180715002325.3c935849f46ba7709893570c@posteo.net> References: <20180715002325.3c935849f46ba7709893570c@posteo.net> Message-ID: <87lga9w6s8.fsf@posteo.net> Xavier B. writes: > After upgrading my system, I'm not be able to boot my system > (see > photo). It seems it's an issue with systemd. What can I do? > After this > shot, the keyboard does not respond. > > Any hints? Could I boot with USB-arch booting and reinstal?l > some > packages? How? > > Thanks in advance, > > PS: Yeah, I used --ignore in pacman -Syu but systemd should not > be updated if it could not. > Could you grab your systemd logs from a live boot chroot into the current install. Also, your pacman logs would also be useful. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From LucidEagle at protonmail.com Wed Jul 18 07:07:10 2018 From: LucidEagle at protonmail.com (Lucid Eagle) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 02:07:10 -0400 Subject: [Assist] High Importance Message-ID: <6pMrpUo7rbih1bZdIrbUzP8ipUepPZvH3k0Jh8Jncw9UIutiVF0jbHNpRkCRGrEjW53FVUf6b-4buxaVBAYrYky4diQAd5UVk1YBzuL_dis=@protonmail.com> Hello everyone, hope you all are doing well. It has come to my attention that there may be a trojan in the official Parabola repos. As well as several other potential security issues as well. They may all just be false positives, but this one is rather alarming. /usr/bin/openal-info has a Unix.Trojan.Vali-6606621-0 Package Source: https://www.parabola.nu/packages/extra/x86_64/openal/ I have attached screen shots of all the results from the clamav scan on a fresh installation of Parabola GNU Linux. I am using the Cinnamon DE and I have just installed some of my favorite apps from only the official repos. I have also included a bash script that lists what I have done so far step by step after installing the system too. Please let me know if this is a real trojan and/or if the other issues are false positives. Thank you so much for all of your help. Take care and have a wonderful evening. Sincerely, Lucid Eagle Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot from 2018-07-18 01-55-09.png Type: image/png Size: 26985 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: quick-reset.sh Type: application/x-shellscript Size: 1452 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Wed Jul 18 07:18:40 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 01:18:40 -0500 Subject: [Assist] [Dev] High Importance In-Reply-To: <6pMrpUo7rbih1bZdIrbUzP8ipUepPZvH3k0Jh8Jncw9UIutiVF0jbHNpRkCRGrEjW53FVUf6b-4buxaVBAYrYky4diQAd5UVk1YBzuL_dis=@protonmail.com> References: <6pMrpUo7rbih1bZdIrbUzP8ipUepPZvH3k0Jh8Jncw9UIutiVF0jbHNpRkCRGrEjW53FVUf6b-4buxaVBAYrYky4diQAd5UVk1YBzuL_dis=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <87in5dvzgf.fsf@posteo.net> Lucid Eagle writes: > It has come to my attention that there may be a trojan in the > official > Parabola repos. As well as several other potential security > issues as > well. They may all just be false positives, but this one is > rather > alarming. Thank you for your email, we will look into this. As for the PUAs, you can pretty much ignore them. You really do not need that setting to be enabled if you are not running an FTP server or anything of the sort on your machine where "drive-by" attacks can occur. As for the Trojan, I will look into it and report back if nobody else does in the morning. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From brettg at posteo.net Wed Jul 18 08:00:36 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 02:00:36 -0500 Subject: [Assist] [Dev] High Importance In-Reply-To: <1531895468.31209.0@disroot.org> References: <6pMrpUo7rbih1bZdIrbUzP8ipUepPZvH3k0Jh8Jncw9UIutiVF0jbHNpRkCRGrEjW53FVUf6b-4buxaVBAYrYky4diQAd5UVk1YBzuL_dis=@protonmail.com> <87in5dvzgf.fsf@posteo.net> <1531895468.31209.0@disroot.org> Message-ID: <87h8kxvxij.fsf@posteo.net> Christopher Davis writes: > I have been looking into this, and it seems likely that this is > a false > positive. The code "6606621" was > also used for a CUPS file, and according to VirusTotal only > ClamAV reported an > issue. Information > here: > https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/e770c592101a051e7a8d45a618c06244c301a8a6bcdec3f4dcc73a27b425c37b/detection > > Uploading to VirusTotal could help us figure out whether it's a > valid report in > this case too, > though be aware that you will need to run non-free JS within > your browser to use > the page. I did some research on the file in question, too. It seems that ClamAV flags it as a virus due to some bad checking on the hexcode in the file. This has actually been reported to ClamAV in the past. In summary, this package is not problematic. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From aurelien at hackers.camp Wed Jul 18 11:12:13 2018 From: aurelien at hackers.camp (aurelien at hackers.camp) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 12:12:13 +0200 Subject: [Assist] [Dev] High Importance In-Reply-To: <87h8kxvxij.fsf@posteo.net> (Brett Gilio's message of "Wed, 18 Jul 2018 02:00:36 -0500") References: <6pMrpUo7rbih1bZdIrbUzP8ipUepPZvH3k0Jh8Jncw9UIutiVF0jbHNpRkCRGrEjW53FVUf6b-4buxaVBAYrYky4diQAd5UVk1YBzuL_dis=@protonmail.com> <87in5dvzgf.fsf@posteo.net> <1531895468.31209.0@disroot.org> <87h8kxvxij.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <87y3e8rgxu.fsf@hackers.camp> Brett Gilio writes: > Christopher Davis writes: > >> I have been looking into this, and it seems likely that this is a >> false >> positive. The code "6606621" was >> also used for a CUPS file, and according to VirusTotal only ClamAV >> reported an >> issue. Information >> here: >> https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/e770c592101a051e7a8d45a618c06244c301a8a6bcdec3f4dcc73a27b425c37b/detection >> >> Uploading to VirusTotal could help us figure out whether it's a >> valid report in >> this case too, >> though be aware that you will need to run non-free JS within your >> browser to use >> the page. > > I did some research on the file in question, too. It seems that ClamAV > flags it as a virus due to some bad checking on the hexcode in the > file. > This has actually been reported to ClamAV in the past. > > In summary, this package is not problematic. Hello mates, There is also the point the 'extra' repo is made of stuff from ArchLinux, so you can blacklist (temporarely/definitely) it to avoid the trouble. take care -- aurelien desbrieres From somenxavier at posteo.net Wed Jul 18 14:38:25 2018 From: somenxavier at posteo.net (Xavier B.) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 15:38:25 +0200 Subject: [Assist] Unable to boot my parabola "error while loading shared libraries libjson-c.so.4" In-Reply-To: <87lga9w6s8.fsf@posteo.net> References: <20180715002325.3c935849f46ba7709893570c@posteo.net> <87lga9w6s8.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <20180718153825.5af67b338a7825185e3ba1d8@posteo.net> On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 22:40:23 -0500 Brett Gilio ha escrit: > > Xavier B. writes: > > > After upgrading my system, I'm not be able to boot my system > > (see > > photo). It seems it's an issue with systemd. What can I do? > > After this > > shot, the keyboard does not respond. > > > > Any hints? Could I boot with USB-arch booting and reinstal?l > > some > > packages? How? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > PS: Yeah, I used --ignore in pacman -Syu but systemd should not > > be updated if it could not. > > > > Could you grab your systemd logs from a live boot chroot into the > current install. > > Also, your pacman logs would also be useful. > How can I do that if I cannot boot my system? > > -- > Brett M. Gilio > Free Software Foundation, Member > https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From bill-auger at peers.community Wed Jul 18 15:11:34 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 10:11:34 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Unable to boot my parabola "error while loading shared libraries libjson-c.so.4" In-Reply-To: <20180718153825.5af67b338a7825185e3ba1d8@posteo.net> References: <20180715002325.3c935849f46ba7709893570c@posteo.net> <87lga9w6s8.fsf@posteo.net> <20180718153825.5af67b338a7825185e3ba1d8@posteo.net> Message-ID: <20180718101134.e343707f29709a339a8513f4@peers.community> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 00:23:25 +0200 Xavier wrote: > After upgrading my system, I'm not be able to boot my system what exactly do you mean by this? - is this to say that you had a working parabola system installed on your hard disk, and then you ran `pacman -Syu` and then rebooted? On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 15:38:25 +0200 Xavier wrote: > How can I do that if I cannot boot my system? you could do that by booting a LiveISO -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lukeshu at lukeshu.com Wed Jul 18 16:49:59 2018 From: lukeshu at lukeshu.com (Luke Shumaker) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 11:49:59 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Unable to boot my parabola "error while loading shared libraries libjson-c.so.4" In-Reply-To: <20180715002325.3c935849f46ba7709893570c@posteo.net> References: <20180715002325.3c935849f46ba7709893570c@posteo.net> Message-ID: <877elsfsrc.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 18:23:25 -0400, Xavier B. wrote: > After upgrading my system, I'm not be able to boot my system (see > photo). It seems it's an issue with systemd. What can I do? After this > shot, the keyboard does not respond. Yes, you should be able to arch-chroot in to the system from a live USB/CD, in order to fix it and grab logs. What to do to fix it depends on exactly what broke. It looks like you need to update the 'json-c' package. Within the arch-chroot, run `ldd /lib/udevadm` to verify that all nescessary libraries are present (I believe if it's missing it looks like "libfoo.so.1 => (missing)"). > Any hints? Could I boot with USB-arch booting and reinstal?l some > packages? How? > > Thanks in advance, > > PS: Yeah, I used --ignore in pacman -Syu but systemd should not be updated if it could not. 1. Partial updates are not supported. Most package dependencies are not versioned. If cryptsetup depends on json-c, and the latest cryptsetup update depends on the latest json-c update, it's very likely that cryptsetup just says `depends=('json-c')`, and doesn't specify the version. 2. What exactly did you ignore? -- Happy hacking, ~ Luke Shumaker From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Wed Jul 18 17:44:47 2018 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 11:44:47 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Migration from Arch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1531932287.1595.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Safe Mode wrote : > Hello , i have a problem with migration from archlinux to parabola . > This link is dead - > https://www.parabola.nu/packages/libre/any/pacman-mirrorlist/download/ > . I tried to change to yours 1.parabola1-any.pkg.tar.xz pakages > ,pkgver = 20180712-1.parabola1 , but I'm getting an error. > Please help me. > > -- > Ar?nas hi. the {eudev,systemd}-libudev conflict in the screenshot does not correspond to the error you describe. as to how to get the mirrorlist, a workaround is described in https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/1888 have a look at it and let us know if all goes well. happy migration. -- Isaac David GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943 Ring: c8ba5620e080bef9470efb314c257304ff9480f5 Tox: 0C730E0156E96E6193A1445D413557FF5F277BA969A4EA20AC9352889D3B390E77651E816F0C From brettg at posteo.net Wed Jul 18 21:33:52 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 15:33:52 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Unable to boot my parabola "error while loading shared libraries libjson-c.so.4" In-Reply-To: <20180718153825.5af67b338a7825185e3ba1d8@posteo.net> References: <20180715002325.3c935849f46ba7709893570c@posteo.net> <87lga9w6s8.fsf@posteo.net> <20180718153825.5af67b338a7825185e3ba1d8@posteo.net> Message-ID: <87h8kwjnbj.fsf@posteo.net> Xavier B. writes: > On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 22:40:23 -0500 > Brett Gilio ha escrit: > >> >> Xavier B. writes: > How can I do that if I cannot boot my system? As Bill said, you will need a LiveISO USB image to boot from. >From there you need to follow the chroot procedure to get the information from your failing system. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From brainblasted at disroot.org Wed Jul 18 07:31:08 2018 From: brainblasted at disroot.org (Christopher Davis) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 02:31:08 -0400 Subject: [Assist] [Dev] High Importance In-Reply-To: <87in5dvzgf.fsf@posteo.net> References: <6pMrpUo7rbih1bZdIrbUzP8ipUepPZvH3k0Jh8Jncw9UIutiVF0jbHNpRkCRGrEjW53FVUf6b-4buxaVBAYrYky4diQAd5UVk1YBzuL_dis=@protonmail.com> <87in5dvzgf.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <1531895468.31209.0@disroot.org> I have been looking into this, and it seems likely that this is a false positive. The code "6606621" was also used for a CUPS file, and according to VirusTotal only ClamAV reported an issue. Information here: https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/e770c592101a051e7a8d45a618c06244c301a8a6bcdec3f4dcc73a27b425c37b/detection Uploading to VirusTotal could help us figure out whether it's a valid report in this case too, though be aware that you will need to run non-free JS within your browser to use the page. On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 2:18 AM, Brett Gilio wrote: > > > > Lucid Eagle writes: >> It has come to my attention that there may be a trojan in the >> official >> Parabola repos. As well as several other potential security issues >> as >> well. They may all just be false positives, but this one is rather >> alarming. > > Thank you for your email, we will look into this. > > As for the PUAs, you can pretty much ignore them. You really do not > need > that setting to be enabled if you are not running an FTP server or > anything of the sort on your machine where "drive-by" attacks can > occur. > > As for the Trojan, I will look into it and report back if nobody else > does in the morning. > > -- > Brett M. Gilio > Free Software Foundation, Member > https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org > _______________________________________________ > Dev mailing list > Dev at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From somenxavier at posteo.net Fri Jul 20 14:56:59 2018 From: somenxavier at posteo.net (Xavier B.) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 15:56:59 +0200 Subject: [Assist] Unable to boot my parabola "error while loading shared libraries libjson-c.so.4" In-Reply-To: <877elsfsrc.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> References: <20180715002325.3c935849f46ba7709893570c@posteo.net> <877elsfsrc.wl-lukeshu@lukeshu.com> Message-ID: <20180720155659.e1105c9669cd2450f3188e44@posteo.net> On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 11:49:59 -0400 Luke Shumaker ha escrit: > On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 18:23:25 -0400, > Xavier B. wrote: > > After upgrading my system, I'm not be able to boot my system (see > > photo). It seems it's an issue with systemd. What can I do? After this > > shot, the keyboard does not respond. > > Yes, you should be able to arch-chroot in to the system from a live > USB/CD, in order to fix it and grab logs. > > What to do to fix it depends on exactly what broke. It looks like you > need to update the 'json-c' package. Within the arch-chroot, run `ldd > /lib/udevadm` to verify that all nescessary libraries are present (I > believe if it's missing it looks like "libfoo.so.1 => (missing)"). > Thanks, Luke, is there any documentation about how to do that? After save the live-cd in the USB, what should I do? I have three partitions in disk: /dev/sda1 for /, /dev/sda2 for /home and /dev/sda3 for /var (extra partition for swap). How _exactly_ I have to install missing packages?. I'm a newbee > > Any hints? Could I boot with USB-arch booting and reinstal?l some > > packages? How? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > PS: Yeah, I used --ignore in pacman -Syu but systemd should not be updated if it could not. > > 1. Partial updates are not supported. Most package dependencies are > not versioned. If cryptsetup depends on json-c, and the latest > cryptsetup update depends on the latest json-c update, it's very > likely that cryptsetup just says `depends=('json-c')`, and doesn't > specify the version. I rely on pacman --ignore installs only packages without foo dependency. > > 2. What exactly did you ignore? I don't know. I don't remember. I have in pacman logs. If I could see them, I'll show you > > -- > Happy hacking, > ~ Luke Shumaker From brettg at posteo.net Sun Jul 22 21:03:52 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2018 15:03:52 -0500 Subject: [Assist] TexLive Upgrade Errors Message-ID: <874lgrm40n.fsf@posteo.net> Hey all, Can somebody take a look at this and help me identify why TexLive is producing errors on upgrade? http://ix.io/1i78 -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info Mon Jul 23 03:04:08 2018 From: isacdaavid at isacdaavid.info (Isaac David) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2018 21:04:08 -0500 Subject: [Assist] TexLive Upgrade Errors In-Reply-To: <874lgrm40n.fsf@posteo.net> References: <874lgrm40n.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <1532311449.3824.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Brett Gilio wrote : > Hey all, > > Can somebody take a look at this and help me identify why TexLive is > producing errors on upgrade? > http://ix.io/1i78 this is an [old dog](https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/969) in our texlive distribution, yet it _shouldn't_ pose an impact on most users. the topic gets raised every now and then, as in [this thread](https://lists.parabola.nu/pipermail/dev/2017-December/006153.html). tl;dr: parabola has to remove some fonts and what not from the zip sources distributed by Arch for the sake of license compliance. the cleanup could probably be made more gracious, however. it's a great area of opportunity for anyone wanting to contribute to parabola in a non-mundane way (as opposed to just bringing our ~1-year-old texlive packages to date, like i did.) let me know if you observe anything unusually wrong with this update. -- Isaac David GPG: 38D33EF29A7691134357648733466E12EC7BA943 Ring: c8ba5620e080bef9470efb314c257304ff9480f5 Tox: 0C730E0156E96E6193A1445D413557FF5F277BA969A4EA20AC9352889D3B390E77651E816F0C From bill-auger at peers.community Fri Jul 27 04:31:19 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:31:19 -0400 Subject: [Assist] TexLive Upgrade Errors In-Reply-To: <1532311449.3824.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> References: <874lgrm40n.fsf@posteo.net> <1532311449.3824.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> Message-ID: <20180726233119.95b5de1c5956e8a7a855a21f@peers.community> On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 21:04:08 -0500 Isaac wrote: > let me know if you observe anything unusually wrong with > this update. Isaac - i just installed the 'texlive-most' group and got similar errors - were you expecting the errors to be gone? Brett - they did not cause pacman to fail so the program appears to be installed - is there any behavior that is actually broken? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Fri Jul 27 04:35:08 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 22:35:08 -0500 Subject: [Assist] TexLive Upgrade Errors In-Reply-To: <20180726233119.95b5de1c5956e8a7a855a21f@peers.community> References: <874lgrm40n.fsf@posteo.net> <1532311449.3824.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <20180726233119.95b5de1c5956e8a7a855a21f@peers.community> Message-ID: <874lgluz9v.fsf@posteo.net> bill-auger writes: > On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 21:04:08 -0500 Isaac wrote: >> let me know if you observe anything unusually wrong with >> this update. > > Isaac - > i just installed the 'texlive-most' group and got similar errors > - were you expecting the errors to be gone? > > Brett - > they did not cause pacman to fail so the program appears to be > installed - is there any behavior that is actually broken? The errors are not affecting my use, no. Thank you for checking in on it, Bill. -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From mcgregor at mailoo.org Fri Jul 27 23:09:17 2018 From: mcgregor at mailoo.org (mcgregor at mailoo.org) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 00:09:17 +0200 Subject: [Assist] TexLive Upgrade Errors In-Reply-To: <874lgluz9v.fsf@posteo.net> References: <874lgrm40n.fsf@posteo.net> <1532311449.3824.0@plebeian.isacdaavid.info> <20180726233119.95b5de1c5956e8a7a855a21f@peers.community> <874lgluz9v.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <87wotgs54i.fsf@MiddleEarth.home> Brett Gilio writes: > bill-auger writes: > >> On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 21:04:08 -0500 Isaac wrote: >>> let me know if you observe anything unusually wrong with >>> this update. >> >> Isaac - >> i just installed the 'texlive-most' group and got similar errors >> - were you expecting the errors to be gone? >> >> Brett - >> they did not cause pacman to fail so the program appears to be >> installed - is there any behavior that is actually broken? > > The errors are not affecting my use, no. Hi, In my case, this causes compilation problems when the ecrm fonts are used. I got it working with those packages: \usepackage[QX]{fontenc} \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} \usepackage{lmodern} In the case of the moderncv class, I had to comment out a few lines in the cls file to get it to work. So it's not completely broken, but still quite annoying, however it's been this way for a long time. McGregor > > Thank you for checking in on it, Bill. > > > > -- > Brett M. Gilio > Free Software Foundation, Member > https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org > _______________________________________________ > Assist mailing list > Assist at lists.parabola.nu > https://lists.parabola.nu/mailman/listinfo/assist From drew at dangerfields.ca Sun Jul 29 03:25:26 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 19:25:26 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Ecrire (Enlightenment) Text Editor Message-ID: <164e3dad37e.e0a585c5115663.4086834980152655087@dangerfields.ca> I have Enlightenment, EFL and Terminology installed from the repos but they don't have Ecrire. The Enlightenment maintainer on Manjaro (AJ Slye) has his own up to date repo for Enlightenment and its entire suite of apps, including Ecrire, which I have used without any problems. Can I point pacman to his repo to install and then do updates for Ecrire? Conflicts? Problems? Thanks and regards, Drew From bill-auger at peers.community Sun Jul 29 03:48:25 2018 From: bill-auger at peers.community (bill-auger) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 22:48:25 -0400 Subject: [Assist] Ecrire (Enlightenment) Text Editor In-Reply-To: <164e3dad37e.e0a585c5115663.4086834980152655087@dangerfields.ca> References: <164e3dad37e.e0a585c5115663.4086834980152655087@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <20180728224825.b204276a28183707700d5337@peers.community> you can use any third-party repos if you want to - doing so is inviting the possibility of any arbitrary conflicts - only the maintainer of that repo could ensure that this will not be problematic for its users - that particular person is probably doing so, but against the manjaro package set and not parabola; so it is not likely that maintaining sanity with parabola is one of the goals of that repo i will add that there is a packaging request for that program on the parabola ussue tracker - that is the only recommend option -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brettg at posteo.net Sun Jul 29 04:18:56 2018 From: brettg at posteo.net (Brett Gilio) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 22:18:56 -0500 Subject: [Assist] Ecrire (Enlightenment) Text Editor In-Reply-To: <164e3dad37e.e0a585c5115663.4086834980152655087@dangerfields.ca> References: <164e3dad37e.e0a585c5115663.4086834980152655087@dangerfields.ca> Message-ID: <87600yraov.fsf@posteo.net> Drew writes: > I have Enlightenment, EFL and Terminology installed from the repos but they don't have Ecrire. The Enlightenment maintainer on Manjaro (AJ Slye) has his own up to date repo for Enlightenment and its entire suite of apps, including Ecrire, which I have used without any problems. > > Can I point pacman to his repo to install and then do updates for Ecrire? Conflicts? Problems? > > Thanks and regards, > > Drew > Hi, Drew Can you give me a link for the Manjaro package? -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org From drew at dangerfields.ca Sun Jul 29 06:03:40 2018 From: drew at dangerfields.ca (Drew) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 22:03:40 -0700 Subject: [Assist] Ecrire (Enlightenment) Text Editor In-Reply-To: <87600yraov.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164e3dad37e.e0a585c5115663.4086834980152655087@dangerfields.ca> <87600yraov.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <164e46bb209.e9915672117364.1155271571804254157@dangerfields.ca> I believe this is the link to his repo: http://www.nulogicsystems.com/public_files/nulogic/x86_64/ He also sent this to me a short while ago: "NOTE: The build of ecrire in my repository is not from upstream, it?s built from a different source (fork), that is quite a bit different. Obsidian-StudiosInc/ecrire https://github.com/Obsidian-StudiosInc/ecrire ecrire - General purpose graphical Text Editor built on the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries (EFL)" Drew ---- On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 20:18:56 -0700 Brett Gilio wrote ---- > > Drew writes: > > > I have Enlightenment, EFL and Terminology installed from the repos but they don't have Ecrire. The Enlightenment maintainer on Manjaro (AJ Slye) has his own up to date repo for Enlightenment and its entire suite of apps, including Ecrire, which I have used without any problems. > > > > Can I point pacman to his repo to install and then do updates for Ecrire? Conflicts? Problems? > > > > Thanks and regards, > > > > Drew > > > > Hi, Drew > > Can you give me a link for the Manjaro package? > > > -- > Brett M. Gilio > Free Software Foundation, Member > https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org > From somenxavier at posteo.net Tue Jul 31 18:14:11 2018 From: somenxavier at posteo.net (Xavier B.) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:14:11 +0200 Subject: [Assist] Is /etc/conf.d/network used in openrc? Message-ID: <20180731191411.0906c81ed480e32ac50a5d1c@posteo.net> It seems openrc just uses /etc/conf.d/net not /etc/conf.d/network. Anyone can confirm it? What's the best way and easy way to set an static network? Thanks in advance, Xavier From somenxavier at posteo.net Tue Jul 31 18:18:53 2018 From: somenxavier at posteo.net (Xavier B.) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:18:53 +0200 Subject: [Assist] Is /etc/conf.d/network used in openrc? In-Reply-To: <20180731191411.0906c81ed480e32ac50a5d1c@posteo.net> References: <20180731191411.0906c81ed480e32ac50a5d1c@posteo.net> Message-ID: <20180731191853.5f1a3688d85b158859509fd9@posteo.net> On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 19:14:11 +0200 "Xavier B." ha escrit: > It seems openrc just uses /etc/conf.d/net not /etc/conf.d/network. > Anyone can confirm it? > What's the best way and easy way to set an static network? > > Thanks in advance, > Xavier It seems parabola uses netifrc instead of newnet. The only reference I found is this https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Network_management